Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[Shinobi]

I'll be doing science. Pls don't disturb.

[Shinobi]

Wait, is Aquanim that guy from team liquid?

[Shinobi]

Tbh I might just afk for science.

[Shinobi]

Let's policy lynch the guy posting in red.

VOTE: Waffle

[Shinobi]

For what it's worth, I don't think that waffle is actually a high percentage mafia lynch. I don't think posting in really annoying eye-popping colors is a thing that mafia would want to use since it's really annoying and makes people hate you.

But it's still annoying and I want him to stop.

[Shinobi]

Yeah, I'm kind of aware of that, but I'm still sticking to it for now.

Not like it's saving him.

Pedit: What TSO said.

[Shinobi]

Dave asking Mala if she plays by gut is really weird, since he played with her not even a game ago and should have a reasonable idea of what to expect.

Pasch suggesting that only scum promotes policy lynches is weird too. Scum weird, though I may be biased.

More to come later at a time that isn't 3 AM.

[Shinobi]

Seriously, so many walls.

I'll try to deal with this game tonight.

[Shinobi]

Okay, I'm here. Give me a minute.

[Shinobi]

Hey shut up.

[Shinobi]

So much sass.

I'm getting to it.

[Shinobi]

Mala, Aquanim, and TSO all look town.

Mala's insistence on pushing me to do stuff, especially when she knows that I can be a lazy sob, is pretty town. I know it's slightly WIFOMy, but a scum!Mala would have no problem letting me /afk my way through day 1 and leave me alone until later for the purpose of attempting to mislynch me. Still, enough for a townread on day 1.

Aquanim is making good posts. Specifically, his interaction with Spitfire looks incredibly town. His posting is proactive and geared towards figuring players out rather than casting doubt on them. Another good townread, imo.

Bulbs' vote ending up on low-hanging fruit is basically his modus operandi as scum, and his vote on Spitfire makes me uneasy. I remember liking a couple of Spitfire's posts, but maybe I'm biased because I found myself in a similar position before (though he's being a lot more intelligent than I was). I want to see the Bulbazak/Spitfire dynamic play out more.

Waffles is a meaningless lynch as of right now.
UNVOTE:
He needs to post more for me to get a more accurate assessment than "posting in colors makes you townie."

TSO looks okay, and he isn't posting as aimlessly as that one time I played with him in B_E's game. The biggest thing I want to see from him is his play on later days, since his last pushes (before the game was abandoned ) as scum were incredibly awkward and didn't really make a whole lot of sense in the grand scheme of things. I know he's on Spitfire, but I don't particularly care about his vote right now despite him having a reasonable case on why he's voting the way he's voting. (IE: I don't necessarily agree, but I see how he came to his conclusion and don't have an issue with it logic-wise.)

Compared to the other game I played with him where he was actually mafia, his posts are a lot more visceral/punchy and his thought process is far more transparent; he openly discusses what he is and isn't doing, and he doesn't really seem to care much for asking idle questions for the sake of asking them. All of his posts look like they have a clear purpose and he isn't coming up with arbitrary reasons to withhold his vote. Add in the fact that he's trying to go through and correcting reads that look incorrect, and I feel pretty comfortable calling him town as of right now.

(He also kind of mirrors my thoughts on being paranoid about Bulbazak, so there's that.)

I haven't looked into acryon yet, but I feel like I should.

People that bothered me during my reread: Pasch and Nether. I'll elaborate when I can, but reading this game right now feels somewhat grueling and I kind of want to take a break from it. I'm 100% on having glossed over several things and I already spent like 4 hours looking over things just in this sitting.

[Shinobi]

I can see why.

Also I'm hoping this is the only time I do the wall thing. The walls are making this game incredibly difficult to read.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Bulbazak

That's a really dumb thing to say.

I'm going to vote you for it.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

Actually, I had a moment of clarity.

I want this to play out a bit.

[Shinobi]

Nether, where else have you played?

[Shinobi]

Also throwing my vote down.
VOTE: Netherspite

Most of his posts are geared towards contesting townreads without giving his opinion on them either way, like his objective is to keep people suspicious of each other. His actions on pages 4 and 9 are prime examples of this, and his whole "town is stressful" shtick is something I just don't buy from a newbie town perspective in terms of not having an agenda, especially since he's played elsewhere.

Bulbazak's read on the Spitfire/me interaction is...Not good. If he legitimately believes that read, he's a million percent mafia and needs to be lynched. There's no way for him to be able to draw the conclusion of "scum partner" off of the evidence he brought up.

[Shinobi]

@Pasch: You should try to explain your thoughts in a way that isn't useless.

...
Most of his posts are geared towards contesting townreads without giving his opinion on them either way, like his objective is to keep people suspicious of each other. His actions on pages 4 and 9 are prime examples of this, and his whole "town is stressful" shtick is something I just don't buy from a newbie town perspective in terms of not having an agenda, especially since he's played elsewhere.

Oh my, that read's not good. Do you think that Netherspite pressuring Spitfire and Acryon is not a pro-town kind of move?

I don't see how the latter point is relevant to his alignment in the slightest. What motivation is there to lie about such a thing as scum?

UNVOTE: acryon
VOTE: Shinobi

Thank you for nitpicking one thing out of the entirety of my posts, bro.

[Shinobi]

I've made two scumreads. You've ignored the entirety of all my posts and condensed them into "two-thirds of useless noise" and have refused to acknowledge that anything else I have said has merit.

Can't say I'm too thrilled to answer your questions if you're just going to condense my posts into nothingness because you feel like it.

[Shinobi]

Christ, I forgot how much of a dick you are.

[Shinobi]

Will someone explain to me why we're voting Spitfire again?

Can we just not be doing that anymore?

[Shinobi]

In short: I feel like his point-by-point argumentation at the top of the page indicates TvT. As a general rule of thumb, town will either reevaluate or stand their ground and defend their actions/beliefs, which I feel he has done up top.

Alternatively, I feel like his #252 comes from a town-oriented mindset: keeping players from attacking each other personally and keeping them focused on producing content while keeping the thread atmosphere clean is far,

far

more likely to come from town than scum.

Those were the two biggest things I could think of off the top of my head. I remember not hating a bunch of posts he made earlier on, and I felt like he was asking reasonable questions. I don't particularly understand the wagon on him but I don't care for it as of right now.

I might be able to elaborate on this more later on, but I might not. Idk.

[Shinobi]

I've decided that Waffles is 100% mafia, with the caveat that he might not be.

[Shinobi]

Why is Waffles scum?

I don't really have a particularly good reason not to suspect him anymore. Most of the other players here look okay and a lot of them seem to be being quite reasonable.

It's a circuitous way of saying PoE, but I'd still feel better about killing him over almost anyone else.

[Shinobi]

@Pasch: The alternative is that scum comes up with reasons to continue their bad behavior. That, and I didn't find the points brought up against him in that case to be particularly compelling.

That's besides the point though, since Spitfire looks to be pushing some rather townie objectives. Not a guy on my lynch list atm.

[Shinobi]

@Pasch: No it doesn't.

[Shinobi]

@Pasch: No it doesn't.

Then you'd better make a compelling explanation for the difference, cuz right now it just sounds like you're making stuff up in order to justify unfounded reads.

Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?

[Shinobi]

If you really can't see that his defense is reasonable and that me saying that it's a towny defense is completely unfounded, then...lol. Just lol.

[Shinobi]

I'll deal with this game tonight or tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

I'm not answering whatever it is that's bothering you people because I'm lazy.

[Shinobi]

Well I will.

Not that I won't.

I just don't really feel like dealing with this game right now.

[Shinobi]

That is the nitpickiest thing I've ever seen, B.

[Shinobi]

Can someone remind me of whatever it was that was bothering people?

I might answer it now.

[Shinobi]

Did it, though? Did it

really

?

[Shinobi]

Ugh, fine. I'll look into it when I get off my lazy ass.

I have tomorrow and Thursday off so I can at least pretend to be productive for a day or two.

[Shinobi]

"TvT" is an indirect term I use to describe someone I find to be defending their beliefs in an adequate or reasonable manner. In normal circumstances, the player pressuring a lynch target is town for obvious reasons, so I just kind of took to saying "TvT" without considering the consequences for scumreading the opposing side.

As of right now, I'm not particularly sure where I stand on Nether. I'd need more time to elaborate on my read on him.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:
Should probably unvote until I do so.

[Shinobi]

Hi.

Get off my wagon while I catch up.

Ew who's this.

[Shinobi]

From that last bit, that doesn't sound very townShinobi.

Wow so bm.

[Shinobi]

Hi.

Google it.

Current reads off the top of my head:
Nether - Null
Tempest - Town
Aqua - Town
Mala - Town
Pasch - Scum
Bulb - Null

Everyone else hasn't posted enough or isn't interesting. I actually had a townread on your slot so don't let me down.

[Shinobi]

TSO is null.

Anyone I haven't given a read on is someone that I don't think has posted enough important stuff to warrant judgement either way.

[Shinobi]

Pfft. Lazy.

[Shinobi]

You're negligible.

[Shinobi]

In a minute. I'm reading stuff.

[Shinobi]

Dave's line of questioning in the last page is weird, especially the part where he says my play is different from the last time we played together without elaborating on why. His only valid point is me not really talking to Pasch, which...Kind of makes sense I guess, even though Pasch had some weird nondescript issue with me before he even brought up the bias thing or whatever. I don't know. I'd like him to elaborate on what he finds different about my play in 570 because Mala is saying the opposite, and Mala has never gotten my alignment wrong.

If I had to lynch someone right now, it'd probably be Pasch for saying my stuff is shady without elaborating on why. I'm probably biased though.
VOTE: Pasch
Just for the sake of letting people know where I stand as of right now.

Xayzeck votes are still bad and I've elaborated on why.

Nobody lynches until Luca catches up again and TSO actually does things, etc.

Pedit: Mala and I always defend each other when we townread each other. What, you think someone is going to yell at someone else just so they can buddy them when they post?

[Shinobi]

Well considering the history you two seem to have I'd assume you want the other to townread you as scum

Also note to self, I'm at page 14 and I dislike Bulbs Luck view

Or she's town.

I'm not keen on this idea because I don't know how you intend to tell the difference between "buddying" and two people townreading each other.

[Shinobi]

@B: People who call me scum for bullshit reasons are usually scum.

Like really.

[Shinobi]

@B: Don't even play that card, yo.

[Shinobi]

I think Shiobi is pretty scummy. Not really scum hunting and his play is completely different from a game where we were both town.

How is his play different?

In the other game (where he was town) he was actively pushing scum reads, and usually posting more than one line. Here we have a whole lot of dodgy one liners, and no push at all on his only scum read.

I'm really surprised Mala is townreading Shinobi. That doesn't make a bit of sense given she was also town in the same game, and I'm beginning to think she might be scum too.

Okay.

Now imagine for a second that you're wrong.

What then?

[Shinobi]

That question sounded less awful in my head.

I'll get back to this game tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

Quickly let's lynch someone I don't like.

[Shinobi]

Uhm?

[Shinobi]

I literally posted one post that I thought was worded better in my head, but I flubbed it because I posted at 2 AM.

You want me to be tryhardy and dickish? I can do that.

I'll be back in 24 hours with a verbose post or several.

[Shinobi]

Break at work, thought I'd devote a little time to the game to make up for whatever it was that people hated about me.

Anyone else notice how Xayzeck is defending Shinobi by questioning his attacker, while Mala is just flat out defending him?
I'd think this is the scum team, if it weren't so unlikely that they'd be so obvious about defending each other.

I'm sorry, but how does this make any of us scum? Xay thinks that I'm town and wants to know the motivation behind your attack on me. Is this only a defense that can come from scum defending scum or what?

I also checked your points on Mala's townread on me, and I don't understand where that's coming from either. Mala didn't call me town until I made my giant reads post in yet you said she townread me before I did anything worth being townread. In fact, her whole modus operandi from the start of the game was pushing me into doing something so she could read me, in yet you're saying that you couldn't reach a conclusion based on what I posted. I understand that your meta might be a little out of whack, maybe because this is only our second game together, but why is it that Mala's defense/read is only scum/scum?

[Shinobi]

Anyone else find it fishy that Acryon is v/la until exactly after the deadline is over? He's basically parked on this unfounded Dave wagon that no one will defend. He's a wasted vote that won't go to helping us lynch scum today.

Nope.

[Shinobi]

Dave's associative read genuinely makes no sense to me because I thought my first wall was okay, but a bunch of people have ignored it as well.

They can't all be mafia. Something is wrong here.

[Shinobi]

Heading back to work.

One last thought: how is it that Nether is totally up-in-arms about me meta'ing people as town, in yet wants to policy lynch me because of it? If that's the case, why doesn't he want to policy lynch Mala for the same thing because

that's literally all she does.

Instead, he reads her as town because she always metas, but wants to lynch me because I'm relying on meta.

???

[Shinobi]

Okay, I can kind of see where you're coming from.

Fwiw, I still disappeared for the majority of day 1 and completely stopped paying attention until later day 2.

As for your point on my point on Pasch being flimsy, the people who call me scum for bullshit reasons/nonreasons are usually scum. I don't need a giant wall to say "he is making stuff up" and quote a bunch of timestamps because none of that is necessary. Pasch said I was scummy for no reason and then harped on meaningless semantics. That's basically it.

Leaving for reals now, prbs.

[Shinobi]

Back, rereading etc etc.

[Shinobi]

I just remembered the question I wanted to ask dave before.

Dave, why is it that you're putting no stock in Mala's read? Have you ever thought that, since meta is Mala's whole gameplan whenever she plays mafia, that she might be onto something and you might have missed it? Part of your case is based on her calling me town off of what you perceive to be little whereas she has much more experience with me and might be able to gauge me based on less.

I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but I think more than half of my games on MS have been with Mala. I'd think she could read me somewhat reliably at that point, and I guess that's why I don't find her read on me weird.

[Shinobi]

Also to note that now is a good idea for Mala to elaborate on her read so I can see what I'm dealing with here.

[Shinobi]

I've never rolled scum on MS. The only slot I've had thus far is the one in Suburban Warfare, which was...Pretty lulzy.

It's there if you want to look at it though. I keep my wiki super up-to-date.

[Shinobi]

Don't hurt yourself.

There's plenty that can be gleaned from meta, even if it's one-sided; why assume someone is scum because they're playing the same way they always have? She's posted a towncase on me before, despite my meta being one-sided, and it was ridiculously accurate. (Also from Open 570, fyi.)

I might be biased in this regard since I think I'm obvtown, but I need Mala's reasoning to move on from this.

[Shinobi]

I'm not cool with dave votes.

I want to give him more time.

[Shinobi]

Yeah, that's not what I mean though.

We aren't lynching him today.

[Shinobi]

Did someone just suggest shennanies?

I AM ALWAYS DOWN FOR SOME SHENNANIES.

[Shinobi]

Two days is plenty of time to decide a lynch.

In most cases it's more time than I usually get to find scum.

It's fine.

[Shinobi]

Well you've got my vote and my attention.

That's all I can give you.

[Shinobi]

Why are people calling Netherspite town?

[Shinobi]

Saying someone isn't scumhunting is so unbelievably subjective.

Rest of your points are garbage, and also subjective.

Try harder pls.

[Shinobi]

Alternatively alternatively, if I'm town, who's your next lynch target?

Outside of Xay, of course.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

I'm going to give you some room to breathe. Use your thinkbrain and come up with different lynches aside from the two that most certainly aren't happening today.

Your life may well depend on it.

[Shinobi]

Acryon, probably. Though Mala's last few posts pushed her up the list a bit.

Why and why? I'm vaguely aware of your acryon read so I know it's not coming out of nowhere, but I'm kind of "eh" on it.

Also, do you have any other reasons to back up your Nether read aside from "he's scumhunting" which I'm not particularly convinced by?

[Shinobi]

I unvoted Bulbazak because I realized there were multiple explanations for him accusing me:

1) Confirmation bias.
2) An inside joke based on a game we played together where he frustrated me to no end.
3) A reaction test.

The key thing here is that I realized that there was plenty of room for him to say what he said as either alignment, despite his read being rather meh. There's also the fact that he knows that he can frustrate me if he pushes really, really hard and decided not to based on players contesting his read, so I guess meta also kind of played into me leaving him be.

[Shinobi]

I'm not really sure if I want to, tbh.

[Shinobi]

I don't really know if we have a choice at this point, though.

[Shinobi]

I know. I'm thinking about where I'd direct it but I need more time to figure out where I'd steer us.

And I'm not sure I can do that without pulling an all-nighter, which I blatantly can't do since I have to work tomorrow.

What a pain.

[Shinobi]

I don't think we even have a single mafia in our current votespread.

[Shinobi]

It's not that I'm necessarily townreading him.

Look at the votespread. If there's mafia in any of the top wagons, where does mafia have to vote in order to cause a voteswing? The answer: anywhere. All of the targets are totally viable and it wouldn't make much of a difference because a large number of people are okay with dave, Pasch, Luca, or even Xayzeck getting lynched.

I wish I could elaborate more or flesh out a better opinion, but I'm playing nowhere near my normal level and I wouldn't even be surprised if I was wrong.

[Shinobi]

I need to sleep.

[Shinobi]

Why do people always ask for scumteams? You only need one suspect.

In all honesty, I need sleep. I'll try to figure something out in the morning. If I can't, I might let this Pasch lynch go just to see what we're dealing with.

[Shinobi]

There's no way I'm going to be able to give you a fully functional scumteam on day 1 unless someone posts their role pm.

Seriously that's crazy.

OKAY I'M SLEEPING FOR REAL NOW DO NOT DISTURB.

[Shinobi]

I'm phone. Will make big posts if I go on break or something.

[Shinobi]

Pasch why are you being so suicidal?

[Shinobi]

Xay and I seem to be the only ones, aside from Aqua, who are trying to save you in yet you're not taking any of that into account in your reads.

Like I can kind of see how you could still be a little suspicious of Xay, but he's still your top lynch which is ridiculous.

[Shinobi]

Also there's no way we turn this lynch at this point since there's no way we get enough votes outside the top wagons.

Who do we think is the more useful townie: pasch or Dave?

[Shinobi]

I still want to kill Nether.

Nobody has any solid reasoning on why he's town in yet he keeps winding up on people's town lists. I can't elaborate more on phone though which is driving me mad.

Not like it matters though since he's off the table. Meh.

[Shinobi]

If you're town, your main objective should be to survive since you, who is confirmed town to yourself, should be fighting to stay alive since your townreads could be wrong.

I don't understand what's so hard to understand about this. We're not lynching mala today.

[Shinobi]

Nether, I'll answer whatever it was you asked when I get to a computer.

[Shinobi]

I might be wrong on Nether but it's hard to elaborate on everything via phone.

[Shinobi]

I'm here.

Pasch still scum reading people trying to save him. Fun.

[Shinobi]

You're not trying to save me, Shinobi. You're just trying to make it look less obvious that you ought to be next after I flip town.

[Shinobi]

Intent to hammer.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: pasch

/shrug

[Shinobi]

lol

[Shinobi]

Will analyze later.

[Shinobi]

Tone read.

He hasn't done anything scummy to me

I'm kind of in the same boat, tbh. I can't think of anything I'd actually lynch TSO for atm.

Aqua might just be biased since TSO was trying to kill him.

@Mala: I gave my reasons for unvoting Pasch here.

[Shinobi]

Yeah I actually haven't read the current Nether case at all.

Why is TSO's defense a scum defense?

[Shinobi]

I just checked the Nether case.

Meh.

If I lynched him, it'd be for my own reasons that I was going on about most of day 1.

[Shinobi]

Probably because he was pushing mafia objectives.

If you don't like it, who else would you lynch and why? Outside of TSO, of course.

[Shinobi]

You voted me for my reasoning and said it was bad.

You should be aware of some of my stance at this point.

[Shinobi]

Nah, I don't think my case is bad.

Even if I did think it was bad, I don't know who else I would lynch.

[Shinobi]

I'll explain in the morning.

No more important midnight posts for me, thanks.

[Shinobi]

Understandable.

[Shinobi]

I've been putting this game on my backburner, but I'll try to get to it tonight.

[Shinobi]

Thought I'd spare more time for this game today, but apparently I didn't. Meh. Tomorrow, then.

The TSO/Aqua fight really needs to stop though. I didn't find any of it particularly enlightening in any respect and it just feels really inflammatory.

[Shinobi]

Meh, I got what I wanted out of it.

I don't really think you did.

[Shinobi]

My read on you gone a long way from town D1 to leaning scum now.
It was never fluctuating. Things most affecting my reads were the flips and your behavior.
Also you being overly defensive.

And yes, you can call my answer "ridiculous" but I won't change my playstyle. I believe and will always believe that caring about your own survival is anti-town.

lol

[Shinobi]

What you just said about self-preservation is dumb.

[Shinobi]

It is.

I get what you're trying to say but the idea you're bringing across, when taken at face-value, is really dumb.

[Shinobi]

@TSO: How common is it on this site for one of the scum to be really active and act pro-town? There was a scumtell I used on a previous site which I call "scum leading town" where scum would try to drive the conversation by pushing others, sometimes even to vote people the scum themselves were not voting. I used this tell to correctly scum read our host BBT in a newbie game, but failed to push it through.

There is someone here to whom this scumtell might apply, but using it in this game would be a mountain of work because I haven't been keeping track of it in the flow. Do you think it's worth the effort to check, or is that a really uncommon thing here?

This is basically exactly what scum is supposed to be doing.

Who's the accused? Enlighten me.

[Shinobi]

When you're one of the prime lynch targets and you're trying to survive a lynch.
When scum fakes a redcheck on you.
When you have a valuable role and you want to ensure that you don't have to claim.

That's just off the top of my head. When you're town, any other person in the game getting lynched has a higher chance of producing mafia than you do. There are plenty of times where survival as town is your highest priority. Why would you ever let confirmed town get lynched?

[Shinobi]

I don't really find it all that strange that most of TSO's posts are centered on defending himself.

This is kind of why I want the Aqua/TSO fight to stop: it isn't accomplishing anything and it's not moving the game forward. Nobody is going to lynch either player based on the cases they're presenting against one another and, if either of them is scum, the fight will make them harder to look at objectively.

[Shinobi]

Duh to the top three points.

But there's nothing wrong with being defensive, and the fact that you're trying to pass it off as a scumtell is really weird because it doesn't really mean anything, especially in this circumstance. (Information lynches are also stupid and people who suggest them are usually scum for that reason.)

[Shinobi]

Theoretically it's suboptimal to get defensive, sure, but it doesn't matter because there's no chance of it being a characteristic displayed only by scum.

[Shinobi]

I don't really think it is, but I'm still relatively new to MS compared to how often I play on my home site.

I don't have much of an opinion on that post one way or another atm. Kind of why I want focus to shift off of him for the time being so I can see what he does when people aren't pouncing down his throat.

[Shinobi]

It's either a scumtell or a sign of townie who is playing against his win condition (because it is suboptimal play as Shinobi agreed).

That's my opinion.

As of the OMGUS votes thing, I'm not sure what to make out of it yet.
I brought it up so everyone can tell their opinion on this matter.

It's neither of those things, though.

[Shinobi]

Tbd.

I want to say Nether but that could just be confirmation bias on my part. I still have to elaborate on my case on him because I've been lazy.

[Shinobi]

My method of thinking earned me many scum caught in my previous games.
This game I played D1 terrible but it does not mean my method of thinking is wrong.
Personally I find your playstyle awful yet you won't change it just because I don't like it.
Same with my playstyle.

@Shinobi

VT not in LyLo situation focusing

only

on self-defense is playing against his win condition.

This argument is so important to me that I'm going to go do something else now.

[Shinobi]

Out of the 3 jokers at the beginning of the game, his was the weakest, and he was the only one that didn't step up his game afterward (Maybe I'm biased here, because I know and understand TSO and Mala a lot better.).

0.o

0.o 0.o

Definitely biased.

Wasn't Pasch one of those people too?

[Shinobi]

I mean, Nether has more posts than TSO and Mala combined, and many of his posts are reasonably lengthy while TSO and Mala have almost exclusively one-or-two-liners.

Also kind of a relatively good point.

I'm a little out-of-date so I'm just going to comment on little things as I go. If you have questions, shoot.

[Shinobi]

Oh Nether is self-voting.

Isn't that something.

[Shinobi]

No, but I modded town Nether in Binary Trolls, and he hasn't been stepping up his game to the level I expect from town him.

What exactly are you expecting from town!Nether?

[Shinobi]

Eh, I got off my lazy dickbutt and realized that Bulba's case on Nether's early d1 play was kind of the exact same thing I was commenting on before, albeit more elaborate.

That is a rather good case.

[Shinobi]

Okay I was literally just posting my vote and then you said that.

No pls.

[Shinobi]

I WAS JUST POSTING MY VOTE AGAIN STOP THAT.

[Shinobi]

I'm not going to hammer until I get a claim though.

Intent to hammer.

[Shinobi]

If someone selfvotes, I don't think there's any point in asking for claims anymore, Shin.

I'm aware.

I just kind of want to soak it in.

[Shinobi]

Why are you so confident that you both will be alive tomorrow...?

I don't see how it's strange to think those things.

[Shinobi]

Oh well thanks for telling us then.

[Shinobi]

Hammer intent, if it's still there in the morning my time.

No I called it.

[Shinobi]

Is acryon really talking about lynching into the Pasch wagon?

lol

[Shinobi]

It has nothing to do with being self-serving.

It has to do everything with the fact that it's highly unlikely that scum goes out and busses their role cop, one of the roles pivotal to winning the game, just for the sake of not getting role copped/vigged/jailed for several days. It's counter-intuitive.

Even then, just saying you want to lynch into the Pasch wagon without giving reasons as to why you want to do so is literally awful. If you actually think it was a bus, who bussed him and why? Is that consistent with their posts and how does that make them scum in this circumstance?

And btw, if you actually believe the whole "last minute panic bus" thing, you are going to get lynched so fast your head will spin. I don't think there's even a word for how awful that is.

[Shinobi]

Besides, even if it is self-serving, how is it scum!self-serving rather than town!self-serving?

You're calling for vig shots on people who are already dead (lol) and people who helped prop the wagon up.

I don't understand it. You don't even have strong reasoning for any of the things you said about any of the actions you suggested.

[Shinobi]

Eh.

[Shinobi]

I'm kind of 50/50 on this whole acryon thing right now.

[Shinobi]

My biggest issue is that all of his targets are low-content posters.

His bit on associative reads is convenient because scum knows how it can make people look; taking stuff like that at face value is really convenient because it means you don't have to actually analyze a player in terms of the agenda you think they're pushing.

Other people were saying it too though, so idk. That really needs to stop though because it's bad.

[Shinobi]

Meh.

[Shinobi]

It really should be via lynch though.

But I can see where you're coming from.

[Shinobi]

I'll be around but super lurky for a couple of days. Don't expect any big posts. Holidays and whatnot.

[Shinobi]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

This strikes me as a little off. You wouldn't be confident in town reading TSO using meta, if others didn't think the same thing?
If you put a little less faith in the meta and in matching others' reads, and look at what TSO is actually posting, can you honestly say you think he's town on that basis?

This whole angle is meh. I don't see anything wrong with trusting your townreads.

[Shinobi]

Bulba, me, xay are bad Vig shots for sho.

So who is a good vigilante shot, then? Me?

lol

[Shinobi]

Aquanim's funny when he's frustrated.

[Shinobi]

Why?

[Shinobi]

I just don't like either of you as of late tbh. More you than Dave.

Shooting someone you don't like is a tad extreme.

[Shinobi]

I don't see how someone requesting a jail over a bullet makes them town.

Anyone would say that, especially in mafia.

[Shinobi]

So is he still town to you or what?

[Shinobi]

So much martyring.

[Shinobi]

<----

This guy.

[Shinobi]

Fat chance of me voting at 2 AM though.

[Shinobi]

Lurk lurk lurk.

Still kind of upset that Mala called a shot on me for no reason but I don't think I'm getting an answer for that today. Tomorrow, prbs.

[Shinobi]

Yes. Tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

Yes. Tomorrow.

Why is there going to be a tomorrow?

If we don't hit scum via vig or lynch, it will be Day 3.

I was under the impression that that's how this game works.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi and Davesaz are my top two scum-reads for a reason. If Nether is town, the chances of scum not being one of the two seems very low.

If I die because you morons think I scumslipped I will go to your house and poop in your shoes.

[Shinobi]

Yes. Tomorrow.

Why is there going to be a tomorrow?

If we don't hit scum via vig or lynch, it will be Day 3.

I was under the impression that that's how this game works.

Yes, but that post seemed to imply tomorrow was a given.

It implies that, if we miss, the question will need to be answered.

My possibly being alive is irrelevant.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi and Davesaz are my top two scum-reads for a reason. If Nether is town, the chances of scum not being one of the two seems very low.

If I die because you morons think I scumslipped I will go to your house and poop in your shoes.

Don't worry; I'll likely still be vigged, but they'll get you and Dave tomorrow if we get there.

I will be ecstatic to see you go.

The last thing I need is some dope getting uppity over things that don't exist.

[Shinobi]

Nope.

If you want hammer, go nuts.

[Shinobi]

Hi I jailed TSO.

Oh wait we caught him already.

Okay.

VOTE: TSO

[Shinobi]

I actually wasn't sure if I was going to claim or not, so I started weighing my options and considering how many clears we needed and such.

And then I started playing Civ5 so that didn't get done.

Meh. Blame Steam.

[Shinobi]

ayyyyy lmao

look who rolled JK

who also rolled JK in that game with the ZZZX/bitmap newbie that we were both in

lol

Right?

I felt so useless during this game though. Aquanim/Bulbazak/Tempest came in and ran everything from the get-go so I was just kind of loitering in the background. Guess a couple people found it suspicious. Hmph.

[Shinobi]

I think Bulba was vigi but I'm not 100%.

Knowing me I probably overlooked someone claiming it already.

[Shinobi]

The Pasch lynch completely broke the game. Everybody off that lynch was just going to get boned. Too many supertowns.

If you found your way onto that lynch, you would have lasted much longer and probably wouldn't have gotten invest-boned.

[Shinobi]

I think my inability to be here definitely made me really useless this game, and also made people feel weird about me. Not much I can do about being gone, but I admittedly had trouble reading and sifting through all that I had missed, which made it even harder to be useful and engaged. Sorry town

You weren't really scummy. A bunch of people were reading you as town in the end.

Though calling for me to get shot made me flip out a couple of times.

[Shinobi]

Yeah.

I said this in the Scum PT too - but school -did- hinder me there. I would honestly probably have bussed Pasch - there was a seat at the end if I'd had the inclination too. My exams were on during the days of Pasch being ran up and I just pushed dave instead because I was kinda rushing.

The answer is to stop going to school and dedicate your life to mafia.

It's the only sensible choice here.

[Shinobi]

Oh Mala was vigi.

lol I called her out on it during the game.

Btw, modding was great. Would play another.

[Shinobi]

Well it seems that most of my scum reads were wrong in this game. I've at least correctly read TSO until bulba made me disappointed by his tunneling and I stopped fighting.

I'd like to thank BBT for the awesome modding and aquanim & tempest for being the pleasant persons to play with.

And still, bulba, your tunneling is worse than wisdom. That was the most disappointing thing in this game.

You should just blame me for the mislynch, tbh. I realized that Bulba's case was bad in yet I couldn't elaborate on why.

I don't know who else I would have lynched, though. TSO sounded so town to anyone outside of the Aquanim/TSO fight. I'm not sure I would have thrown him out there.