Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[numberQ]

Hey everyone. I'm not exactly new to this whole scene, but it's been a long ass time since I played and I wanted to get my feet re-wet with a newbie game. No idea how rusty I am or am not, but I wasn't terribly good to begin with, so let's just try to have fun.

I've only read the first two pages (well first and a half really) so far. Leaning scum on fjil;jd (wtf kind of name is that) because he went after Bitmap for stupid reasons, also slight scumread on Pramitz due to a reason already pointed out in the first two pages, namely that he answered the RQS strangely.

I see fjdshaj was at hammer for a moment there, so I'm seeing others agree with that scumread. I'll finish up my read over the topic and see if my opinion there changes. (though note that his reaction to reaching hammer did not help him in my eyes. laughing and calling us blind? not town behavior imo)

[numberQ]

Oh, and for the RQS ika started:

I've played enough games to know what's what, but "it's been a long ass time" (to quote myself).
I'm obviously going to say no that I'm scum, and tbh I think it's a shitty question to ask. What does it accomplish besides throwing wine everywhere? Confusion does not help town.

[numberQ]

snip

On Bitmap, I questioned who was my initial scumread. Nothing wrong with that.

On what I said on Diego, it was frustration. I don't see how he is town in any sense. I cannot picture his posts from a towns POV.

Imo, your reasons are very weak. Tell me your reads on some of the other players.

Well first note that these are very initial reads (only got to page 2, as I said), and also note that I haven't yet finished my reads (only got to page 2, as I said). I'm not in a place where I can look back over the topic right now, but rest assured you'll get my reads on the other players.

As for the Bitmap thing, your reason for the scumread was that his arguments were nonsensical and he relied on gut reads or light reads too much. I disagree, and think it shows desperation to find someone to latch onto and attack.

As for the Diego thing, maybe you're right. I have no read on him yet so I can't agree nor disagree. I just don't see that post (wherein you

laugh at the town

) coming from a town POV. Although, to be fair, I looked at Diego's post and it's a pretty awful move to put someone at hammer for being "that weak of a town player".

[numberQ]

Finished my catch up.

Drixx started out decent, but now seems way too focused on how to reconcile his past playstyle with this site. Just play the game, dude. His long posts of theory-discussion and complaining could be a mask to try and stifle actual discussion, as I think someone said already.

Drixx, if I'm understanding your vote on DDD correctly, it's based on semantics and the way he answers people. Am I wrong? If not, why vote him for such flimsy reasons when there are plenty of scummier people out there?

Pramitz also seemed pretty town at first, but there's a wishy-washiness in his posts that I don't like. The only exception is when he votes Letters, which is interesting in itself. He immediately preempts the possibility that he's sheeping, and then later does indeed use that as justification that it wasn't sheeping.

Why so focused on looking like you aren't sheeping? Also, why do you want to lynch Diego if Letters ends up being scum? What if Letters ends up town?

Letters is probably scum guys.

Letters, why is Drixx obvious town according to you?

Letters

This puts him at L-1 again.

[numberQ]

Whoops, but the wrong tag I think.

VOTE: Letters

[numberQ]

I'll hold off on defending DDD, because I don't like doing that for other players. I will say that I disagree on his lack of game content, though. It may be sparse compared to his IC content, but it's not completely missing like you're saying.

As for Letters, I don't like how obsessed he is with everyone outting their reads all the time. It's like he so desperately wants to be town, and he knows that town is supposed to have reads. His own reads are shaky at best. Also because my gut didn't like how he reacted when reaching L-1.

I've already given my thoughts on the rest of the field, at least the part of the field I'm currently thinking about.

[numberQ]

Why so focused on looking like you aren't sheeping? Also, why do you want to lynch Diego if Letters ends up being scum? What if Letters ends up town?

As for the second part... Where do I say I want to lynch Diego if letters is scum. Why is it so hard for you and letter to understand that a list of people I think are scummy =/= who I think the scumteam is.

Post 214 is where I got that conclusion, but now I see I didn't read it carefully enough. What you were actually saying was the opposite. Question edit:

Why do you want to lynch Diego if Letters flips town? What if Letters flips scum?

Is there anyone on the "letters" wagon who can sum up the case for me?

I summed up my reasons in post 242. Can you refute them?

[numberQ]

Frankly, I agree with Letter's assesment of NumberQ's initial slide into the game.

What assessment?

Also, I'm feeling a lot less aggressive about Letters now. I agree with DDD's read that he's acting a lot townier than he was, and I have to say I'm starting to see him from Drixx's POV too.

UNVOTE:

Though that begs the question as to why DDD is still voting Letters.

DDD, you say Letters is looking townier, but you're still voting him. Does that mean you still think he's the scummiest at the moment, enough to justify keeping him at L-1? Despite having ika on your "Would like to lynch" list?

I'll hold my vote until he answers and I have some more time to look through stuff.

[numberQ]

This is such a strange game.

VOTE: Pramitz

Also, hello to BRantz. Let's hope you're easier to read than Letters.

[numberQ]

He answers you, and you not only don't respond, you disappear at deadline. When the town needed you most, you're no where to be found.

Yeah this was a shitty move on my part. I do regret taking my vote off Letters, and honestly I thought I had more time left. I wasn't paying attention to the deadline and didn't realize we were so close to it.

The last time you said anything about Pramitz was 4 days before deadline. What's changed that has warranted the vote on Day 2?

Nothing changed. Letters' slot is scummiest but Pramitz is second, and I want to give Brantz a chance to redeem himself before voting him. It was a toss up between you and Pramitz, really, and I just kind of picked Pramitz on a whim and a hunch.

[numberQ]

Brantz needs to post before anything can really be said about him ... but if "letters' convinced you all the slot was scum, how would a replacement be able to convince otherwise?

It's completely possible that a town slot looks scummy just because of the player in it, and their replacement can look towny. Brantz is already doing a not bad job at that with his first content post.

cool story bro nice OGMUS

now how about you tell me something better, like if im scum whos my scum buddy?
like who would you kill n1?
like about some actual reads instead of silly acusation?

This post just really reeks, a fact I'm pretty sure everyone who's posted since has commented on. Let's dissect it!

OMGUS? You mean the vote that was backed by actual reasoning while yours has none except what you said in post 180? If anything, your votes on each other feel like

yours

should be the OMGUS, except that you voted first. By that I mean your vote is very weak, but you're for some reason adamant on keeping it.

1st question: Are you trying to say that someone can't vote you without also having your scum buddy in mind? What about DDD -- who's his scum buddy since you're voting him?

2nd question: Completely inane question, actually a lot like some of the ones in your RVS when the game started. I can easily see it as scum trying to stir up a smokescreen to hide behind, but I'm having trouble seeing the point of this question from a town POV.

3rd question: The hypocrisy hurts. Where are your reads? Why is DDD's vote a silly accusation but yours isn't? And like Diego asked, why don't you answer some of your own questions?

I really felt a town vibe from ika for a while, but now I'm not so sure.

[numberQ]

Why are you so intent on getting hammered? Being brash won't make us think you're town. Unless you are town whose just bored trying to leave a slow game, in which case what the hell, play to your win condition.

Also, I'm not voting you because I still want to vote Pramitz. He hasn't even posted today ffs, I want to hear from everyone before a lynch happens.

[numberQ]

ika, can you really not see how it would hurt town for people to answer your question? Let's say everyone answers it to the best of their ability, or even answers it at all. The only thing it will do is open a huge can of WIFOM for day 3, after the night 2 kill is flipped (assuming there even is a night 2 kill ). Refer back to my smokescreen comment in post 312.

Though I suppose if I had to answer your question, I certainly would

not

kill you. Either you're scum and obviously you won't be killed, or you're town and scum loves you because you're a content-less lurker that, as of today, is really kicking up the dust and drawing attention away from them.

You also have some kind of narcissism thing going on, at least as far as I can tell. You are not the only person getting lambasted in the game. You are not the only person I think is scummy. I don't have to vote you, especially considering it would be the hammer and day 2 just started. No one is trying to personally attack you!

[numberQ]

Feel free to say you told us so if you get lynched and flip town, but know that it was the defeatism and anger that did you in. And it's not your loudness or even your abrasiveness that's making you scummy, it's that you did little to nothing to help town so far. The biggest things I've seen from you are your scumread on DDD, which you haven't made a decent case for (I don't think a decent case is "I expect town to act this way and he acted a different way", at least not without some actual reasons), and this weird question gambit that no one else is on board with.

[numberQ]

Is that the point for your question? That some people can't answer it well enough because they have a guilty conscious? Even if that didn't backfire hilariously, how could you have gotten anything at all from that? Think about it from town POV. You say that scum won't be able to answer the question, but how would town do that either? We don't have scum buddies, which is pretty important in deciding a nightkill I'd say. In fact, now that I think about it, if I was scum I might even answer your question with the name of my scum buddy for some cheap distancing.

And I'm not going to even considering hammering you until everyone's gotten into the thread for day 2. I don't want anyone to coast by an entire day with zero content (here's looking at you Bitmap, zombiekitty, Pramitz).

pedit: Well now I really don't get it. If it literally all was just a WIFOM smokescreen, why did you even ask it? Unless you explained it with the IC thing, which I don't get either.

[numberQ]

Wow Drixx, you're really laying into him. While I mostly agree with a lot of what you say, it's just a game man. You've made your point.

[numberQ]

Wow Drixx, you're really laying into him. While I mostly agree with a lot of what you say, it's just a game man. You've made your point.

Why would you say this as town? This is appeasy as fuck.

I read Drixx's posts to ika in a really aggressive tone that I guess wasn't actually there. It didn't even have anything explicitly to do with the game, I was just trying to calm down what I perceived as something getting too personal/hostile. What's appeasy about that?

also if drixx was paying attento to me he would already know my role

Are you implying you left breadcrumbs?

@zombiekitty

, who do you think is scum and why? You have to have some kind of reads by now even if you say you're bad at it.

[numberQ]

I think BRantz overreacted to Drixx's response to his vote switch, but having been in the "read the tone of a post wrong" camp, I don't think the fact that he read it wrong is noteworthy. (Yes, Drixx, all text posts can and do have a tone. No one writes in a highly emotional game like Mafia without putting their own biased tone on things, and likewise no one reads without putting bias on it either. That's how scumhunting is even possible in most cases.)

The vote itself and his reaction to reading it wrong, though, might be noteworthy.

@Brantz

, why did you switch your vote? And why did you deny useful information (ie, why you vote switched) just because you didn't like the way Drixx asked you for it? That's a pretty strong reaction, especially considering post 363 when you tell me that Drixx is acting pretty nice. What is your read on Drixx?

@zombiekitty

, so where is your vote? Your only two scum reads have one vote each. Do neither of them strike you as scummy enough to vote even though they aren't in any danger of being lynched yet?

[numberQ]

UNVOTE:

JellyRolls (aside from having an awesome username, just saying ) is a lot townier than Pramitz, and I no longer want to see that slot lynched.

And since the only thing stopping this vote so far was Pramitz:

VOTE: ika

ok ran an iso. i can wee what jelly is thinkging and it does make some sense. however i want to see how zombie responds first

zombiekitty has responded. Any thoughts?

[numberQ]

VOTE: Diego

Second scummiest read behind ika, though that's more process of elimination than anything overt.

@zombiekitty

, you've had your flip. Any notable reads?

[numberQ]

If you're right, kudos for catching it.

But that's a lot of things that need to line up to fit the theory. I don't buy it.

[numberQ]

The more Diego explains his theory and the more people talk about it, the more I agree that it's too bold and crazy for scum to put out there.

UNVOTE:

But now I'm out of scum reads. Guess I'll read over the thread again while waiting for Seraphim and zombiekitty to post.

I'd like to get an opinion on this, does anyone find it odd that neither NumberQ (who put ika at L-1) or zombiekitty (who admitted to thinking they were the 4th vote thus thinking he put ika at L-1) bothered to mention that they were putting ika at l-1?

I wasn't even thinking of that. I guess I probably should have mentioned L-1, but ika was scummy enough that I don't regret it.

[numberQ]

But now I'm out of scum reads. Guess I'll read over the thread again while waiting for Seraphim and zombiekitty to post.

Well I didn't read the thread over because I'm a lazy POS, but Seraphim and zombiekitty posted so there's that.

Seraphim has done nothing to shake the townread I have for his slot.

zombiekitty keeps proclaiming that she works better with flips and such, but now that we have a flip she has basically no reasoning for her two scumreads. Well that's not entirely true; she does have some vague reasoning for her Bitmap/Seraphim suspicion, but it's hardly even related to ika's flip. And I'm also in the camp of wondering why she's voting Seraphim even though someone else is apparently a stronger scumread -- I assume BRantz is that someone else because he's the only other scumread she's mentioned. I've given her the benefit of the doubt so far because of her proclaimed inability to work without flips, but that's starting to strain.

In fact, I'll follow in the footsteps of my bandwagoners and be less reserved with my vote:

VOTE: zombiekitty

@Seraphim

, you say BRantz is scummy based on his predecessor. What about BRantz himself? I had enough of a townread on him to turn my scumread around on that slot.

[numberQ]

It is a mistake to completely discount the scum read on a slot just because a replacement comes in and appears different. Nothing a replacement says or does can in any way impact what the prior player(s) said and did, and just crossing out the earlier stuff seems like a really good way to go about losing newbie games.

That's a good point. I won't discount the possibility BRantz is scum, but he's still not near the top of my scum list despite the actions of his predecessor.

That honor still belongs to zombiekitty. Post 512 did not alleviate my suspicion.

@DDD

, I'm starting to see things the way Seraphim and Drixx (and iirc, ika) do/did, regarding your scumminess. Can you point to any instances of activity from you to refute their claim that you're too passive? I looked through your ISO but I want to hear your answer.

[numberQ]

@Mod

Oh hey, just noticed that little cake next to your name. Happy birthday Deas!

[numberQ]

EBWOP: Obviously I don't understand the [ post ] tags. Just imagine my link up there points to post 512 in

this

game.

[numberQ]

The only thing that really matters? What about, y'know, actual discussion? Wagons are great but discussion and analysis help prevent mislynches, like what happened on that wagon you started. And yes, I was on that wagon as well, but I'm not using it as my sole example of town behavior. Day 2 talk felt severely clouded by ika's fidgeting, so I'm not sure that's a shining example of activity anyway. Like Seraphim said (and you were so quick to dismiss), ika was an easy lynch. It would have happened with or without you, and you were not the only driving force behind that wagon. What else have you done?

[numberQ]

This is such revisionist bullshit; every player other than Pramitz had a chance to start the day with an ika case/vote, every single one of them declined. That was my case and my vote that everyone else flocked to and drove ika over the deep end making him the easy lynch you're pretending he was from the start.

I stand by what I said. ika was a comparatively easy lynch. I don't think it's necessarily scummy that you went after him, which is why I'm not voting you, but the fact remains that ika's wagon was the height of your activity.

@Diego

, it seems like you think DDD and Seraphim are both scum. They're both equally far from lynch. Why not just pick one and vote? This wishy washy "I don't know who to vote but they're both scum" isn't helping anyone.

[numberQ]

BRantz

, how has ika flipping town affected your reads, if at all? Just out of curiosity.

[numberQ]

Not a lot considering I saw him as town before the flip. What about for you number?

I've been mulling the ramifications of ika's flip for a while and I'm not sure what to make of it. The only obvious thing to focus on is zombiekitty's hammer. Whether it was an accident or not is all WIFOM, and I can't even think of a good reason scum would do it on purpose then call it an accident, but my gut doesn't like zombiekitty's play so I'm probably just thinking about it too much. That's all disorganized thoughts though, nothing's really well-formed there.

[numberQ]

I've felt suspicious of you and Bitmap from the beginning.

Not you individually

, but y'alls interaction between each other bothered me.

1.If bitmap isn't scum, is DDD still scum in your opinion, or if DDD isn't scum is bitmap still scum?

My scum reads for all three: DDD, Bitmap/Seraphim, and BRantz,

are all individually separate

.

lol

VOTE: Diego

[numberQ]

UNVOTE:

Diego's response to my vote felt town.

@numberQ:

What is your read/thought on Drixx?

I think he's town. Why do you ask; do you think otherwise? Also, have any of your reads changed since your reread of the thread? You've been talking about it enough, I expected more.

VOTE: zombiekitty

I'll put my vote back here for the time being. I still don't like the indecisive play from her.

[numberQ]

numberQ: convince me of zombiekitty scum. ZK is definitely null for me, show me some aspect of the posting that I'm missing.

Post 510 from me contains a lot of my reasons, mainly that she continually comes up with excuses not to scumhunt, then when she can't use those excuses anymore,

still

doesn't contribute anything worthwhile. All she seems to do is either vote with little/no reason or purpose (Pramitz in 197, Seraphim in 502) or else jump on bandwagons, also with little/no reason (BRantz's slot in 284, ika in 446, DDD in 559).

Post 568 and 482 are very similar. Both illustrate her habit of doing nothing until some goal is achieved (getting a flip in 482, rereading the thread in 568), but then continuing to do very little even after that goal. What will those questions in 568 accomplish? All she's doing is asking people for reads, which isn't a bad thing to do, but this late in the game there should be something else. Some reads of her own, at least. People keep saying DDD is coasting the game but zombiekitty is way worse, and that's why I'm voting her.

If that hasn't convinced you, summarize your case on DDD for me. So far I'm not seeing it but obviously others are. I'd hate to see a repeat of the no lynch day 1, but I'd also hate to jump on a bandwagon for only that reason.

[numberQ]

So deadline is in three days and we've like what, three pages of posting? Come on, people. I only have one vote, this needs to be a TEAM effort.

numberQ: convince me of zombiekitty scum. ZK is definitely null for me, show me some aspect of the posting that I'm missing.

QFT, but I am going to add, convince me that you aren't.

So I'm supposed to convince you of... what, exactly? You've given no reasons for voting me other than you didn't like my post 526. What exactly did you not like about it? Are there any other reasons you're voting me? I can't refute what isn't there.

@Drixx:

Hmm I can see this being newb town play now since you said that; I'm assuming your reasoning there is that new players are less likely to be forthright with their thoughts for fear of being attacked? The problem, though, is I can equally see this being newb scum as well.

@Seraphim:

I never thought I'd see politics brought into Mafia. As we get closer to deadline I'm inclined to take you up on that offer, but like I said I don't want to lynch someone just to prevent a no lynch. I'd rather be at least somewhat comfortable in that person's scumminess, and so far I see DDD's slot as town or at least null. Is there any reason for this bandwagon other than that DDD's meta has him as usually more active?

[numberQ]

Diego is being very compelling at the moment. I'd like to add a note about BRantz's vote for me -- when I asked him to explain the vote (because he asked me to convince him I'm town), he instead posts this:

I actually kind of liked numQ's response to me asking him to prove he isn't scum.

He doesn't explain himself, and then in that same post goes on to put dave at L-1 for no reason, as far as I can tell. Post 609 was the first time he seemed anything approaching suspicious of DDD/dave, and the vote comes not long after that.

Am I wrong, BRantz? Did you have a good reason for putting dave at L-1? Because otherwise I'm getting close to having intent to hammer.

[numberQ]

The exchange between dave and you? You mean the one that consisted of dave voting you, you saying his case is conjecture, and then you putting him at L-1? Where in there is a case of any sort? As for your vote on me; is your entire case literally that that one post was "incredibly scummy in general"?

Also, come on BRantz. Whether you're town or scum, calling all but two people in the game hopeless is a pretty shitty move.

[numberQ]

Oh right, you do actually say that your case on dave was that he had contrived reasons for voting you, and you even admit it's possibly OMGUS. Is that really enough to put someone at L-1? Maybe it's just me but that seems unnecessarily risky.

[numberQ]

Fair point, on both accounts. I still wouldn't mind seeing you lynched, but at this point I have enough doubt that I at least want to wait for zombiekitty's replacement. That slot is still my top scum read.

[numberQ]

Well I'm sick of waiting. Nothing's going to change in 16 hours. BRantz isn't my top choice for a lynch, but I'm not unhappy with it.

VOTE: BRantz

That's the hammer.

[numberQ]

@NumberQ - Why did you hammer when I had given intent and a timeframe? Were you afraid that someone might say something vital? I left that time open,

specifically

so town PRs could think about whether to claim before the night. I didn't ask them to, but it's correct play to let them have the chance. You came in and unilaterally shut down that opportunity. That's really quite scummy.

That didn't occur to me at the time, but even in hindsight I don't think any PRs would have claimed. We had 16 hours left, the day had been stagnating for a while, and no one mentioned anything about PR claiming. I didn't "shut down" the opportunity anymore than you would have if you hammered a few hours later.

Anyway, I did a quick ISO of Diego and I'm having trouble differentiating between his actual reads and info he got from jailkeeping. I couldn't find any bread crumbs, but that's not to say that there aren't any. In general, I think his dave/Seraphim suspicion is based on his jailkeeping results just because of how adamant he seemed about it (his conspiracy post being probably the biggest example of that). However, I don't know how much we can trust that, considering one possible setup with a jailkeeper also has the 1-shot bulletproof.

Power role speculation isn't really my forte, so I'm going to stick to regular scumhunting for now and wait to see if someone is convincing with a PR based argument.

VOTE: snscompt1

snscompt hasn't done much this game, so my read of that slot stands as it did day 2.

@snscompt

, post 663 says you have one scum nailed down if BRantz flips town. BRantz flipped town. Who's your scum?

PEdit: uhh... what? I "bought the result immediately"? Even if I was scum, how would I have known Diego was the jailkeeper and that was hinting at a result?

[numberQ]

This game has been nothing but careful, plodding slowness. It's boring, and probably why we've had so many replacements. It also hasn't been very effective at actually finding any scum yet.

Also, lol @ you defending yourself by saying doing nothing

isn't

scummy. It's null at best, and I'm mainly voting you because of zombiekitty anyway.

[numberQ]

Post 596 contains my zombiekitty case.

As for other scumreads, I see the scumteam somewhere in you, dave, and Seraphim by POE. Drixx just looks way too townie (if you are scum Drixx, kudos), and JellyRolls accidentally confirmed himself town in 478 when he says he didn't know scum couldn't talk pre-D1 (if you are scum Jelly, that was a ballsy lie).

Also, doing nothing IS scummy, Im simply saying I havent had a chance to actually DO something yet. Today I will be able to be active now that Im not replacing in right before a deadline.

And I'm saying that until you DO something, I'm going to think you're scum. And maybe even after, depending on what it is that you do.

[numberQ]

I'm having difficulty following your logic, dave. I voted Diego over a perceived contradiction, Diego cleared up some confusion and showed me it wasn't a contradiction, then I unvoted because I was satisfied with his answer. As far as I can tell, you think I'm scum because I failed to pursue the "after night 2" line in his explanation, but why would I have? You said it yourself that the line only stands out since we know he's the jailkeeper. Reads can change over night, with or without being a power role, so I don't see how it's scummy that I accepted his read changed.

Though like I said I'm not entirely sure I understand your case, so correct me if I'm wrong.

[numberQ]

I thought NubmerQ was scummy yesterday too. That deserves to be re-stated to make it clearer.

snscompt's no lynch vote might be very careful scum play, but it rings town to me. Enough so that I'm having doubts about wanting this lynch today, at least.

UNVOTE:

[numberQ]

EBWOP: I forgot to delete dave's quote... ignore that.

[numberQ]

EBWOP2: Actually, don't ignore it. I remember why I quoted it in the first place. I really shouldn't post with lack of sleep.

dave, when/why did you think I was scummy yesterday? I ISO'd you but couldn't find anything, and you say "re-stated" so I'm assuming you made mention of it already.

[numberQ]

Sorry for disappearing guys. I was really busy these last few days. Luckily there is little I have to catch up on.

Personally I still think the scum lies in snscompt1 and davesaz. numberQ and Drixx look pretty damn town from where I'm standing and I like ForWhom decently enough. I don't know if No Lynch is a fantastic idea because it's very likely that scum will either No Kill or kill someone obviously town (like me or Drixx for instance).

Consider my vote to be on davesaz.

Why should I consider your vote on dave if it's not actually on dave?

Also, why would scum no kill tonight? If we no lynch, scum has the opportunity to put us at LyLo, which is of course a much worse state to be in than MyLo. (Note that I'm not advocating we necessarily lynch someone today; I think Drixx is right in that we should only lynch if we come to a general consensus on scum. LyLo is worse than MyLo, but losing the game is worse than LyLo.)

And why would you throw out that line about either you or Drixx being the "obviously town" choices for a nightkill? Regardless of whether it's true or not, what good does this kind of nightkill speculation do other than set up confusion and muddiness the next day?

[numberQ]

Why do you want to lynch dave? You said it's because BRantz flipped town, but what about BRantz being town makes dave scum?

I also don't see how scum would know if we have a bulletproof or not.

[numberQ]

Oh right, I forgot the setup worked that way. I thought it was more random than it actually is. In that case, I'm now suspicious of Seraphim's last post, specifically this part:

I don't know if No Lynch is a fantastic idea because it's very likely that scum will either No Kill or kill someone obviously town (like me or Drixx for instance).

He says it's "very likely" scum will no kill or kill an obv-town. Ignoring the fact that he included himself on the obv-town list, how are those possibilities both very likely? I can agree that it's likely they'll kill an obv-town. However, why would he say it's also likely a no kill will happen? I highly doubt scum will intentionally not send in a kill, so the only way a no kill could happen is if there is in fact a bulletproof, which only scum can know for sure.

[numberQ]

In order of the opening mod post.

snscompt1: I've found this slot scummy for a while, but the reason for that was mainly a lack of meaningful activity. I think that's turned around a lot recently, so I'm getting a more town feel from him.

ForWhomTheJellyRolls: I had a town read on him once upon a time but now it's null at best because he just hasn't contributed a whole lot. (That's ignoring the fact that he town-slipped in an earlier post; if you include that, I do think he's town.)

Drixx: Very town imo. It's been said before, but basically Drixx is an active, thorough scumhunter, despite some early game weirdness (mainly, it seems, because of site meta confusion or something like that).

Seraphim: A few people are saying he's scum but I still have a mostly town read on him, mainly due to his scumhunting and good participation in discussions. There's been a post or two recently I didn't like, but for the most part I see him as town. Can someone point out why they think he's scum? I'm not seeing it, and I only included him on my list of potential scum earlier because of PoE.

davesaz: I'm definitely starting to see things from the pov that he's scum. Though I'm hesitant to be more assertive here, because whenever someone scummy votes me, I can never tell if I think they're scummy because of OMGUS or because I actually think they're scummy.

Man, I'm realizing I have at least semi-town reads on most of the players. I still think the scum team is somewhere in dave, snscompt, and Seraphim.

[numberQ]

I think there is a need to rush as we already wasted a whole week(HALF of our day) doing nothing besides...well waiting on him. Id like to get some discussion in. Also, Im bored.

QFT

[numberQ]

Everyone is remaining silent right now. This whole game has had low activity levels, and right now I know I'm at least waiting to see if Drixx's plan was worth grinding the game to even more of a halt than it was already at.

[numberQ]

He's the only one who caught that crumb the first time around.

You keep saying this. Your entire case assumes not only that I caught Diego's crumb, but that I was the only one who caught it (for the record, I'd like to point out that I

didn't

catch it). In fact, you said it yourself that if a PR crumbs a result, you'd probably find it. Why preclude the possibility that another player saw my exchange with Diego and came to the conclusion you're so eager to thrust on me?

Alternatively, let's say I instantly understood from Diego's post that he was the jailkeeper. Why would I then out him, as you're suggesting I should have done as town? If I suspected him of having a power role, I'd want to keep that quiet.

[numberQ]

dave, who do you think my partner is if I'm scum?

[numberQ]

dave, who do you think my partner is if I'm scum?

This is a horrible question. Townies should never try the "Oh yeah?! If you're so sure I'm scum, then who is my partner?" as a defense.

It wasn't meant to be a defense. His latest posts have nothing I can even really respond to that wouldn't just be running in circles. Why is it horrible to want to know who else, if anyone, he thinks is scum?

Also, what's stopping you from voting now, Drixx? Why do you have to be the hammer?

[numberQ]

Fair point about vote order, Drixx. Anyway, let's take a look at FWTJR.

We all kind of gave Drixx a pass didn't we?

If we all seem to think davesaz is scum I'm all for lynching him. If we aren't sure then I think we should no lynch.

This is so fence-sitting it hurts. Let's lynch him if we think we should. Let's not if we think we shouldn't. What exactly did this contribute to the conversation?

I'm okay with no lynching at the moment. I don't like how eager Seraphim and snscompt1 are to lynch him and end the day. In my experience that's never been a good sign. I might change my mind and go for davesaz because I still think he's the best shot at lynching scum. But I'm really uneasy right now.

Your next post at least more directly says you want a no lynch, but still says it in a very wishy-washy way. If you're "okay" with a no lynch and don't feel right with any of the lynch possibilities, why are you not pushing that? And nice save there -- you "might" change your mind and go for davesaz? I get it. You're not going to vote him because you don't want your scumbuddy to die, but in the event that he does get lynched, you get townie points because you said that.

VOTE: davesaz

L-1

I think the scumteam is dave and JellyRolls. My JellyRolls read is more dependent on dave being scum, which is why I want to see him lynched first. Then again, if we lynch town at any point, we'll most likely lose the game, so the order is kind of a moot point.

[numberQ]

He claimed despite knowing there'd be a counter claim because it's a last ditch effort by scum to save himself. I still think he should be lynched.

[numberQ]

He's saying that he fake claimed bulletproof because he didn't want to die. The argument works equally well from town or scum.

[numberQ]

You're saying scum wouldn't fake claim? I disagree.

[numberQ]

Jeez, it's been so long since I've gotten this far in a game of mafia. I forgot how nervous it makes me feel.

[numberQ]

I'm having a hard time seeing snscompt or Seraphim as scum, and I'm still suspicious of JellyRolls from my post 790 yesterday. My preferred lynch right now is JellyRolls, but I'll exercise some caution unlike yesterday and not vote right away.

What are everyone's thoughts?

[numberQ]

I agree with JellyRolls that Seraphim focused on the DDD/dave slot too much for it to be a bus, especially considering there wasn't a whole lot of flak on that slot before he started building a case.

sns seems town due to his bulletproof claim, and even before then has been looking townier since my zombiekitty suspicion.

I know I'm town.

That leaves JellyRolls, someone I already had a strong suspicion of. My opinion has not changed since the day started; I still want to see JellyRolls lynched.

@Seraphim, why no lynch? PEDIT: And why put your vote there if you were so easily moved to unvote?

[numberQ]

I'm going to hold off on voting til at least tomorrow so I can get some sleep and think it over. In the meantime, I'm curious as to what people think of Seraphim. sns, you think (or at least thought) he's scummy - why? Was it just his tunnel-y behavior on dave yesterday? He's been called scum before but I never saw it, so I want to hear a case on him if there is one. Jelly, you seem to think the opposite but for the same reason; that is, his tunnel vision on dave was town rather than scum behavior. Is that all or is there something else to your read on him?

[numberQ]

Tunneling is maybe too strong a word for it but IIRC all your votes are on the slot except for one instance you voted BRantz for a little bit. You have been pushing the DDD/Davesaz slot heavily. It's not to say that you haven't done other things which is part of my guy in why I don't think you're the scum. So I do apologize for that misrepresentation because you are right, that's not all you did.

I'd prefer you avoid voting me at least until snscompt and NumberQ have answered what I asked of them.

If we are just going to jump to voting, then this is where I think we're going to find the scum.

VOTE: NumberQ

This post smells like panicked scum. I was going to wait for snscompt, but I can't possibly imagine anything he'd say that would make me not want this lynch.

VOTE: ForWhomTheJellyRolls

[numberQ]

That's good. I want to hear from you snscompt1. AND from you NumberQ. It's not like we don't have time to still discuss things. There's little need to rush to a lynch here, because hell I'm not 100% sure, but I'm about as sure as I can be in my position.

What are you waiting to hear from me? Do you mean my thoughts on Seraphim? I think he's town, like I've said before.

[numberQ]

Damn this always happens. I think my biggest weakness as a town player is getting too locked into my reads. The counterclaim by sns didn't help matters, but all the signs really were there that it was faked. Though I suppose it's always harder to see things in the moment.

Overall, I had fun. This was one of the few games I made it all the way to endgame in, so there's that.