Mini 414-Anime Mafia | GAME OVAH!

[Shanba]

Hey people. I'm Abott now. Awesome, no? I need to read, but I don't have too much time to catch up.

[Shanba]

Looking through Yamahako's posts, I do not feel that he is scummy enough to warrant a lynch at this point in time. In fact, it looks to me more like he is a townie getting frustrated with the repeated accusations thrown at him based on misunderstandings.

I could seriously get behind a cubsfan lynch. Unfortunately, i've never played with him before so I don't know what to expect from him as town or as scum.

Spectrumvoid: Interesting little flip-flop in your last two posts.

FoS Spectrumvoid

. Do you now feel that cubsfan is scummier than Yama? What do you therefore think of Yama's push on Cubsfan? Why have so many of your posts been questions qs opposed to opinions or analysis?

Thrawn: I can't read him currently. I'm a touch suspicious of his tendency to quickly vote and unvote a player and the way he's been a touch wagony.

cuban smoker: ugh. I'm getting an odd feeling about his posts. I don't agree with his lurker hunting, especially on UT. With so many power roles dead, I am uncomfortable with lynching what might be out last one: I'd much rather lynch a different lurker if we lynch one at all (which I don't think is a particularly good idea at this point anyway). In fact, in Kingmaker II he lurked in much the same way but was in fact the kingmaker (I replaced him and was nightkilled in that game). I also don't like the way he seems to have been suspicious of virtually everyone over the course of the game, as it indicates a certain fluidity of suspicion that worries me. There's one more thing, but I want to hold it back for a while so I can see if the patter of behaviour holds.

unvote Vote: Cuban Smoker

Mert: I'm getting conflicting vibes from. some of his posts I find scummy, some I find town looking. I'm not comfortable woth voting him yet, at any rate.

Skruffs: I have absolutely no idea on how to read Skruffs. I've read games with pro-town Skruffs and scum Skruffs and I cannot really find a difference. I reckon he's town though, fwiw.

I think I've missed a few players but I triedto look over those who were under or had been under scrutiny this game + those I found scummy. If there's anything you wish me to address, go ahead and ask. For the record, I don't think a name claim is a particularly good idea.

[Shanba]

wooh. Nice to see people reacting to a deadline in a positive and above all acive fashion.

[Shanba]

geh.
Deadlines ftl.

unvote Vote: Cubsfan

[Shanba]

*poked with a stick*
Ouch. Sorry peoples.

[Shanba]

Geh. I hate these sort of WIFOM situations. Ubertimmy may as well claim at this point. In fact, now we're probably at lylo we may as well massclaim.

[Shanba]

ho hum.
My biggest suspect for today was killed overnight. I still think Yama is more likely town than not, though I agree with Skruffs that his interactions with Zu_Faul today stinks.

My biggest problem with UT is the fact that when I replaced him as the kingmaker in kingmaker II he played a similar way to the way he played this game and I can see him as a power role for that reason. However, Zu needs to claim. Now. Every post without a zu claim is one more that distracts from the issue at hand, that is, why ubertimmy implied he was a power role.

However, I think it's unwise to focus specifically on one or two players, especially this lat in the game, so later I will go back through the game again and pick out a few other players I want to look at.

I'm glad cubsfan was the SK. It would have been incredibly annoying and childish if had been town (or scum, for that matter). At least the only person he screwed over was himself.

[Shanba]

Zu_faul, your predecessor, ubertimmy, strongly hinted at a power role. We have lots of dead power roles and you have yet to be killed. Yet you still refuse to claim, without even saying who you think should claim first. Every second you delay and avoid the issue is a point against you. If you are town, you are only hurting yourself. Claim. Now.

[Shanba]

uhh... good question. He hasn't posted onsite since friday, but he could have just been absent for the weekend.

[Shanba]

zu: Flavour?

[Shanba]

No... I don't believe that. All other characters have ben characters from a show, rather than shows themselves.

[Shanba]

Pokemon is not a character in Pokemon.

Oh wait. I see. Deathnote. Sorry.

[Shanba]

so basically what I just said was complete rubbish. Right. Sorry.

[Shanba]

...

unvote vote thrawn

that's a fairly large mistake. I find it unliky to be a mistake town would make, too, because while town sometimes seem to mix up their night actions, there's no possible way you could have blocked Andrew any night.

also, you never claimed flavour.

[Shanba]

unvote

Zu_faul is dodgy indeed. Seeing him pile on when thrawn is in quicklynch range makes me want to unvote.

[Shanba]

Thing is though, if thrawn is town and zu is scum, it's likely zu was trying to set up the lynch for his partner. I've seen it in other games, one scum gives a reason just so things don't blow up on him. His vote timing was so wierd.

Vote: Zu_Faul

[Shanba]

Townies hash up their claims too. Admittedly I've never seen one claim to target a dead person, but it's not beyond possible. Also, Zu's claim is hardly spotless either, after his predecessor hinted power.

[Shanba]

I realise that. I'm trying to work out which of Zu and thrawn I find scummier.

[Shanba]

unvote

Shanba, I didn't see your post and wasn't aware that I was in fact putting the third vote on Thrawn, I just thought it was the second. I agree with Skruffs, I don't think we need any more claims. But there is no reason we can't discuss what is better for town.

vote: Thrawn1020

As Skrufs said, we didn't have Night 3 and AdrewS was dead. Seems like scum who made this up, thinking the game started with night.

Lynch -1!!

I don't think we need more claiming today, it just helps the scum.

Bolding mine. Nice backtracking there.

I've made up my mind. I think Zu_Faul is scum who tried to quicklynch a townie who botched his claim. If I may ask a hypothetical question, are scum, who are wllowed to talk at night and

kill

at night any more or elss likely to think there was another night?

[Shanba]

vote: Zu_faul

[Shanba]

Mmmm...

The main reason I'm not sure about a thrawn lynch is the way Zu suddenly jumped on his wagon to put him at three votes. With probably three scum alive and 7 players left, iI was worried that he was setting up thrawn for a quicklynch. However, with Yamahako, Mert and me all not hammering him that theory goes out the window (unless the scum are Skruffs, Zu_Faul and Speccy, a grouping wich I think is possible, but fairly unlikely).

I still don't like Zu Faul, and I'm still not sure about thrawn, but the evidence has proved me wrong at this point. I really, really don't like the way Skruffs just tried to set up the next days lynches. It makes me wonder if he already knows thrawn is scum.

The only way Thrawn could be town now is if Skruffs, Zu and speccy are all scum. Zu I can see as scum. Some of Skruffs more recent posts I can see scum making. Speccy... a lot of the earlier feel I had about her is gone. This is mostly after seeing her as scum and town in a few games (mostly newbie games). So I guess that makes thrawn the scum.

Yeah, a lot of that was stream of consciousness.

[Shanba]

You know, you are kind of proving my point about why you may be a good lynch tommorrow. You are conceding that thrawn is very likely scum, but you are reluctant to lynch, trying to push it back onto Zu Faul instead.

The way zu jumped on the wagon looked very much like someone aiming for a quicklynch. With 7 alive, we are very likely in LYLO. The way he looked like he was quicklynching makes me want to take a step back and make sure I don't mess this up.

Also, after what I just quoted, is it really likely that thrawn isn't going to be killed? While I may be wary of lynching him, I know others aren't. What possible benefit could there be for me as scum to associate myself with him if he's my partner when it's virtually certain he will be lynched today?

[quote="Skruffs]
What's curious is that you didn't talk about the people who haven't voted thrawn yet. If you think he's scum, isn't it very likely his buddies are avoiding hammering him because they know how close to success they are?[/quote]

Uh? The point of my post was to work out whether thrawn was scum or all threee of you were scum. I came to the conclusion that I doubted all of you were scum, so thrawn probably is. Also, and I say this again, what chance is there that thrawn won't be lynched today? The most logical scum move at this point would be to bus him, as with probably three days consecutive Lylo, they have nothing to lose.

[Shanba]

Mert Skruffs Zu faul simply doesnt work, as mert would have hammered thrawn for the win.

I'm thinking thrawn-Zu-Yamahako. Mert's claim makes his statement where he said Zu was probably just bussing make more sense to me now.

I guess that puts me next on the claim list. I'm Samurai Champloo, vanilla townie. Apparently that's not the name of a character, either, so I feel doubly stupid now. However.

[Shanba]

I think it's just you left to claim.

[Shanba]

unvote, vote thrawn

I don't think we're learning znything new today.

[Shanba]

Oh. I missed that.

[Shanba]

mm. Actually, at this point we've had two different sets of people put thrawn at three and noone has hammered, so he must be scum. Also, I would point out the slim possibility that Mert is bussing his scumbuddy Zu. I don't think it's likley, but it's not impossible.

[Shanba]

I am voting him currently.

[Shanba]

unvote, vote thrawn

I don't think we're learning znything new today.

[Shanba]

Actually, with Yamahako's vote that should be a lynch.

[Shanba]

Hrm. Well, Zu is clearly scum. Skruffs is clearly town. Third scum... Yamahako. I'll have to re-read to be sure, but that's what I'm thinking currently.

Vote: Zu_Faul

. That makes me feel less thick about attacking him yesterday.

We probably ought to get all the thoughts form all the players left before headng into endgame. If we win this form triple lylo, I will be very happy.

[Shanba]

Actually, I'd like thoughts from Skruffs too, to help me get a sense of perspective.

[Shanba]

Skruffs, please think it over. All it takes is one vote on me from a townie and the scum can win with that proxy.

[Shanba]

That's a bloody good point. I'm counting that as a point in your favour, though I am suspicious you're just waiting for confirmed scum Zu to place the first vote before hammering me, in order to avoid outing yourself.

[Shanba]

Well, tbh, I'm sorta waiting for Yama so we can get his input and then waiting for someone to end the day...

[Shanba]

I agree.
I am suspicious of those not eager to discuss.
Make sure to read yesterday a few times - townies - to get a good read on what everyone was trying to do.
I'm pretty suspicious of everyone who was trying to get Zu Faul lynched over Thrawn, now that we know Thrawn is a mafia roleblocker - and thus more important than a goon.

Wait, what? Zu Faul is a goon?

FoS Skruffs

[Shanba]

SHanba, you are strawmanning me here.

Skruffs. How is that a strawman? It wasn't referring to an argument, but a statement. It cannot be a strawman: a strawman is the act of substituting someone's argument with a weaker one, and then knocking the weaker one down.

Scum did not want to lose their roleblocker (thrawn) MORE than they would would not want to lose a regular mafia member (Zu Faul) because Zu Faul is just an ordinary goon

Ok. I got this. I don't think it's particularly relevant, tbh: there was only a claimed cop left, who most of the town had proffessed belief in, so he wasn't going to be lynched (plus if he had been rbed, suspicion would have tripled on the claimed rber). In fact, the only thing scum would achieve by defending a doomed scumbuddy is putting themselves under suspicion. I'm not saying a scum wouldn't do that: every living scum is necessary, and WIFOM applies here as ever. But it's somewhat of a null tell here.

BUT WAIT! you say HOW WOULD SKRUFFS KNOW THAT ZU FAUL IS JUST A GOON AND NOT A GODFATHER? (I'm assuming that's what your fos is on)
Well, we know that Mert was a sane cop, based on his investigations that he claimed to have made. He got an innocnet on me so I am either a townie or a gofather, and he got a GUILTY on zu faul, which means he's a GOON or a miller.

I cannot see your thought process. I am trying to work it out. Is it more likely that you are a scum godfather who let out a freudian slip, or a townie who worked out that Zu Faul was more likely to be a godfather by a logical thought process? If the latter, why didn't he state his thought process, rather than letting slip that he thought Zu was a goon?

If you think that the mafia had two power roles (Role blocker, maybe cop or doctor?) than it's really unreasonable to think that therewould ALOS be a godfather as well as those two power roles, thus, you STILL have no reason to suspect me.

FOS : SHANBA

Bwuh? You fail to note one very important fact: if Zu isn't a goon, the whole argument is moot anyway. Which means this whole last section is moot. The reason I suspect you is because you seem to have inside knowledge that Zu is a goon, not that Zu is a power role.

Another thing. Have you ever played with me as scum? I assume not. In my games as scum, I have absolutely no qualms about bussing my scumbuddies. I refer you to Newbies 297 and 319.


Skruffs, I have news for you: you're no confirmed innocent. There is still the possibility that you're the godfather. The fact that I suspect you, or that I question your motives, doesn't make me scum. Wake up, smell the coffee.

[Shanba]

Do you think Zu Faul isn't a goon?
Go on - keep defending him.

^_o

This post is so wrong it's not even funny. But never mind.

[Shanba]

Skruffs. How is that a strawman? It wasn't referring to an argument, but a statement. It cannot be a strawman: a strawman is the act of substituting someone's argument with a weaker one, and then knocking the weaker one down.

I fairly agree with that rendition of it. Basically someone makes a point you don't want to deal with - or you think is too strong, so you find something about that point that you can bring to light which effectively draws attention from the main point itself in an attempt to distract town. OR, by proving that smaller point, the original point is ignored by town as the person becomes more suspicious.

Let's look at my post and how you responded to it.

Ah - I see what you mean now, and I concede the point. But I have now responded to that

I agree.
I am suspicious of those not eager to discuss.
Make sure to read yesterday a few times - townies - to get a good read on what everyone was trying to do.
I'm pretty suspicious of everyone who was trying to get Zu Faul lynched over Thrawn, now that we know Thrawn is a mafia roleblocker - and thus more important than a goon.

Wait, what? Zu Faul is a goon?

FoS Skruffs

My point was that town should read any attempts to divert town from the goof-up scum claim scum - which could be salvaged with enough work - thrawn, to the cop claim or to the claimed scum. I'll extend this point to give you another chance to respond to it. Scum had a chance with getting zu faul lynched instead of thrawn because if we had lynched zu faul we don't go to the next day with a known scum just waiting to be hanged. So taking that risk on thrawn worked to town's advantage immensely - and even though the cop was killed, his death condemned a second scum.

Hrmm... I don't think this holds water, tbh. For one, at the time Zu messed up, Mert hadn't claimed cop results. So that would have meant that trying to divert attention from thrawn to zu would have been diverting attention from the scum with a death sentence to the scum who looked fairly scummy.

Besides, that's not what you said originally: you said scum were trying to save thrawn because he had a power role.

Your response was that I somehow knew that zu faul was a goon, and that this was a freudian slip. You didn't acknowledge any other part of my post.
so... yeah.

Again, I concede the point.

I have a question for you Skruffs. If I am scum, and your theory holds, how do you justify my jump on and off the thrawn wagon when you first started it? Incredibly sloppy play? Bad distancing? I just want an aswer, so I can understant your thought process a little better.

[Shanba]

Ok. What do you think of Yamahako, then, specifically his play yesterday? I note he's not even on your shortlist?

[Shanba]

Shanba/Abbott/Simenon:

Vote thrawn1020 I really don't like his fishing for Jack's character or his possible post restriction. It seems like he's trying to get a little too much out in the open that I would care for.

Thrawn didn't fish for Jack's character. Distancing?

There's very little I can say about this. I didn't say it,I wasn't there at the time. However, I would like to know why you think this is distancing?

Well, I don't understand your argument. We've agreed that Jack doesn't have a post restriction a little while ago, and it seemed pretty likely that he had something or other until he broke the pattern. I don't know where cuban smoker has his vote currently, but it certainly makes sense to support a lynch on Skruffs without voting when not everyone was in the game.

Whether or not you like the fishing, I didn't receive anything for it, and I backed off once it was clear he didn't have one. Now that everyone is here and there is no scent of a post restriction, and I've apologized, I'm not sure why you decided to vote me over the schizophrenic postings that have been going around.

Unvote, Vote: Simenon

Same thing?

See above.

No, Thrawn!

Glitzy titles and an armada are no reason to join the dark side.

Unvote,Vote:Thrawn
For falling from the right.


Err... I mean. He wanted a bandwagon. Let's give it to him.
I seriously have nothing in this game. I don't know what to say.... so.... uh....
BLOOD!

unFoS

here's some more...

See above, again. Although I admit, this post by Abott is scummy all on it's own.

Thrawn: I can't read him currently. I'm a touch suspicious of his tendency to quickly vote and unvote a player and the way he's been a touch wagony.

There's some more ties between Shanba and Thrawn.

Mmm. At the time I was more worried about other players than thrawn. I think I was most suspicious of cuban smoker and sv at the time. The comment on thrawn was more of an afterthought oh well I guess I'd better look over as many people as possible.

No... I don't believe that. All other characters have ben characters from a show, rather than shows themselves.

Distancing again from a mafia member (this one is really weak though) - it was in response to Zu_FAul claiming Pokemon.

Meh. I wnted Zu Faul lynched. I've made this clear.

Townies hash up their claims too. Admittedly I've never seen one claim to target a dead person, but it's not beyond possible. Also, Zu's claim is hardly spotless either, after his predecessor hinted power.

Defending Thrawn's claim. This is huge IMO.

Then Shanba starts moving toward Bussing Zu_Faul over Thrawn... We now know that Thrawn was the RBer of the group - if ZF died, Thrawn could have RBed the cop and we'd have been in a worse situation today.
[/quote] Alright. viewtopic.php?t=4835&postdays=0&postord ... &start=900. This was what was going through my head when I made that post. Also, Zu_faul, my top suspect, had just put the third vote on thrawn (putting him at lynch-1). The two things combined gave me a sudden case of cold feet: I was extremely worried that Zu was trying to quicklynch him. My posting that day reflects this.

Also, I was partially right. He didn't mess up his claim because it was a fakeclaim. But that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, I contest your assumption that if the rber was alive we would be in a worse position. Say we lynched zu faul and someone, say, Skruffs, died at night and mert was rbed. For one, that would naturally place even more suspicion on the claimed rber. For another, I don't think anyone was seriously considering lynching Mert anyway (except possibly you). Or if instead, Mert had been nked: Thrawn's horrible claim isn't going to go away. Maybe a tiny benefit in that thrawn might still survive. But I don't see how that's worth getting my hands dirty protecting him.

SpectrumVoid hasn't said very much this game - I need to read her posts in isolation. Skruffs, you still seem scummy to me, but unless you're the Godfather you're pretty much cleared.

Hrm... at this point, actually, I'm more suspicious of Skruffs than I am of SV. I remember being suspicious of her weak attacks and seeming to follow the crowd, but I've since seen other games with her in and gotten exactly the same feeling where she's town.

[Shanba]

good post - thanks.

Because he agrees with you? Urgh.

[Shanba]

Can anyone provide a game reference to a mini with a mafia roleblocker and a godfather? (this is for my own knowledge mainly, I believe Skruffs is innocent.)

Things that I feel are important: Shanba defending thrawn's claim. However, I also like the way Shanba responded to Skruffs 756 (I'm referring to the 2nd para.)

I'm going to apply some WIFOM here. If Shanba was scum, why would she go after Skruffs? (who I've already said I thought was pro-town) It would be easier for Shanba to gun for yamahako instead.

Eh. That actually doesn't apply, as I've stated that Yama is my top suspect. Also, I'm male.

[Shanba]

No. That would require a Skruffs/Shanba scum group (after today's voting) which I know is impossible.

[Shanba]

Who are you responding to there?

[Shanba]

Zu Faul.

Mert being insane would make you scum. Plus, at one point, we had both you and me voting for zu faul: if either of us are town, then the scum would have quicklynched zu.

So no, what he said doesn't make any sense.

[Shanba]

Unless, that is, you think Skruffs-Shanba is the scumgroup.

[Shanba]

No, insane gets flipped results: scum on town and town on scum. So an insane Mert would necessarily implicate Skruffs. A random cop would get random results, but that's leaning perilously on the edge of bastard modding.

[Shanba]

I'm ready for what tomorrow may bring. Although, I probably won't be here >.< (see my sig, and I'm really sorry IH).

[Shanba]

My heart skipped a beat, before I remembered it wasn't possible because I wasn't scum with you.

Bastard.

[Shanba]

That is a bizarre nk.

Geh. I hate you both. One of you is scum. I'm really stuck as to which one. SV nk makes no sense, for either of you. Skruffs still being alive is what throws me, I mean, this should be an easy choice, but I'm hardwired to distrust easy choices when they're presented so nicely in front of me.

All the circumstantial evidence points to Yama. I mean, in a setup with a mafia doc and a mafia rber, how likely is a gf too? It says something that this is a difficult choice for me. Or perhaps I'm just being OMGUSsy with regards to Skruffs. I'll have to check my reasoning there and see if it makes sense.

OTOH, why the heck would Yama kill SV? Unless he thought Skruffs was more likely to kill me. WIFOMing night choices ftl. I need to clear my had. But I'm going on holiday in two days. Really sorry about that. Actually, though, it's probably just as well: I have an atrocious endgame record. [joke]Maybe you could get Primate or something to replace me and we would have a guaranteed win.[/joke]

[Shanba]

That post was not written at my most awake state. Also, it was very much stream of consciousness. Neither was this one, tbh.

Yah, that's why I'm wary of WIFOMing the nightkill.

I'm gone for three weeks.

TBH, thinking about it, it doesn't even matter if you're scum: there's no way I could convince Yama to vote

I don't believe anyone was voting for Mert, though I'd have to double check. I know neither you or I were.

[Shanba]

Alright. I can't see myself changing my mind before tomorrow when I leave on holiday, so I'll leave my vote and my reasoning and Skruffs will hopefully make the right choice.

Vote: Yamahako

Have a look through Yamahako's posting history. Look for mentions, specifcally, of the other two scum.

Post 8: He accuses thrawn of OMGUS, at the same time that he attacks thrawn's attacker, and doesn't FoS or vote either of them, choosing instead to keep his vote on Skruffs because he defended cubsfan's "fishing".

Post 15: he questions UT's vote on him, and then

ignores him for a further 30 posts

, or until well into day 2. In fact, he doesn't mention either scum in that perios of time, choosing instead to focus on Skruffs.

Post 45, 46 and 47: He offers a defence of UT's lurking, then chooses to ignore him again. Knowing as we do now that UT was a mafia doc, that seems pretty damning to me.

Post 49: He FoSses Thrawn for a very weak reason. It seems more like a "stop doing that" post than an accusation.

Post 54: Again defends UT.

Post 55: And again, though he makes sure to say that he isn't defending him

Post 58: FoSses Thrawn (mafia rber) for voting OTU/UT/Zu (mafia doc). Again he defends UT, giving him an out if he wants to claim townie

Posts 59-62: indicates he wants Zu to claim first, despite indicating before that he could well be town. I hate how he keeps repeating that he might just be a townie, not a power role. It seems like a pre-emptive defence for Zu's townie claim. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Yama specifically told him to claim townie.

Post 65: Defends Zu

Again

(albeit against my craplogic).

Post 71: Does not actually make sense: he quotes Skruffs saying he was worried that continuing with the claims would allow a townie to be lynched and says he agrees whereas just a few posts ago he had said that he wanted to finish the massclaim.

Post 74: Defends UT

Again

Post 75: Says he is considering voting Mert instead of Zu Faul, even, because of a semantic slip in Mert's claim!

Post 76: Finally attacks Zu_faul, after defending him many, many times, only after a cop has found him guilty.

I hate the way he butters up Skruffs in post 80, after he was cleared by the cop.

After that he attacks both me and SV: he seems very much to be weighing up both options and seeing which one would be easiest. After I defend myself, he turns on SV. That doesn't quite fit with the nk, but both Skruffs and I had said we though SV was unlikely scum.

I want now to go back to day 1. He votes for and FoSses Jack, Skruffs, cubsfan, AndrewS and HD. None of them scum. He's certainly not being cautious. And yet despite attacking Thrawn over OMGUS and questioning ut's vote for him, he never FoSses or votes either of them that day.

[Shanba]

phew. Well, at least I made the right choice. I still had doubts, even as I was writing that.

[Shanba]

Wooh. I stand by thinking that thrawn didn't mess up because he was fake claiming. I was right. HA. No way I was bringing that up while we were still going though.

The SV nk was probably Yama's only hope. When Skruffs had suggested the idea that I was scum earlier in the day, SV hadn't seemed too receptive too it. And it almost worked too. But Skruffs came through .

<.<

>.>

Skruffs, I was reading through this thread when I got a chance and saw you're "I think I'm going to vote for Shanba" post and I thought we'd lost. Read down and sighed a sigh of relief. XD