Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[TheReverend]

Sup. I've never self voted first post.

vote reverend

That'll give y'all something to talk about.

[TheReverend]

Toffee is a thing already?

Ok I'll read the first page instead of dicking about.

[TheReverend]

Good luck with that. I'm an Unlynchable NK-Immune Miller Vig. Bulletproof.

This is the only thing I don't like so far. Have my vote.

vote prolapsed brain

[TheReverend]

I should probably vote Reverend for self-voting in his first post but there's no wagon.

Why are you reluctant to start one?

[TheReverend]

I have exactly one scum read so far.

vote toffee

[TheReverend]

I know we're still in RVS but you can do better than looking for any possible waggon.

I'm not concerned about his wagon hopping in RVS, my concern is his unwillingness to vote for me after my self vote, despite expressing displeasure. He's shown he's not afraid to throw his vote around, so why is he reluctant to move out of RVS by putting a serious vote on me? I got the inmpression he wanted to avoid conflict, while at the same time didn't want to ignore my self vote. Why would town seek to avoid conflict?

[TheReverend]

How is starting a wagon against someone you want to vote for a pointless vote?

[TheReverend]

It's only RVS if you're voting randomly. It isn't RVS for me any ore.

[TheReverend]

I'm not suggesting you join your own wagon. I'm suggesting you do what you should do if you're town who doesn't like my self vote, and start a wagon on me. You're reluctance to do so is really strange.

[TheReverend]

Has Elyse still got a lovely avatar?

[TheReverend]

I really don't see how being the first or second on a wagon makes a blind bit of difference from the pov of town who should be seeking to interact with those who he wants to engage.

I feel like if toffee was town, then he wouldn't care about whether I had a wagon or not. As scum, perhaps he doesn't want to engage in an early d1 shitfest with me, and is waiting for someone else to steal the thunder before throwing his weight in.

This reluctance has no town motivation.

[TheReverend]

You think I'm scum? Why don't you wave your finger at me without starting a wagon?

[TheReverend]

Your turn toffee.

[TheReverend]

Who's bbt?

[TheReverend]

I'd have thought it's super unlikely that toffee and arceus are scum together. Scum are more likely to WK town, aren't they? Why would arceus risk looking like toffee's scumbuddy, assuming they are buddies of course, by WK'ing him against what would look to arceus like a really solid read?

pedit - of course it was sarcasm. I know who bbt is, it should be equally as obvious to you who toffee is. But whatever, maybe it wasn't obvious. I'm not going to score against you based on it.

[TheReverend]

Right.

So anyway, do you agree with me about arceus and toffee being unlikely buddies based on arceus's taking shots at me? Or would you expect scum to be happy to work together blatantly in an attempt to get a wagon going?

[TheReverend]

I'm buddying? Here was me thinking I was trying to figure out how brain has you both as scum already when there's possibly evidence to the contrary.

[TheReverend]

Nope, you're wrong, I'm thinking scum.

[TheReverend]

PB is scum?

How so?

Weird claim first post doesn't sit well, but whatever on that. It's the linking you with arceus just as arceus comes swinging for me. Seems super thin. I think there's one scum between you and arceus, but not both. Brain's position doesn't strike me as natural.

[TheReverend]

What can I say? I'm on form.

[TheReverend]

I agree. Page 3 is also pretty early for associative tells to be truly indicative.

It's not too early to speculate and press people though, is it?

Confidence means shit. In two irl days I might be confident he's town. My confidence is a style thing. Arrogance is probably a better word. At all times, I'm right and everyone else is wrong. It's not that I truly believe that, but it's the frame of mind I work with, simply because I can only trust myself.

[TheReverend]

Shouldn't we all be talking in German? I know my essentials.

Einen wiessbier danke.

[TheReverend]

Ja. Dat ist gut ja.

[TheReverend]

Is this an actual serious thing? Because Toffee's only real action had been his gimmick/joke thing about wagons. If you are serious, then that looks a lot like jumping on an easy target as soon as possible. Hoping you were joking though.

Yeah it was serious. When does town ever care if he's first or second on a wagon? Why is town even thinking about that?

Is it a slam dunk scum tell? Obviously not. Is it worthy of note at this stage of the game? Yup, and I'll vote him for it and see how he reacts, because that's just about all we can do on d1. Talk, accuse, vote, based mostly on gut.

Why is toffee an easy target? Why is he an easier target than, say, brain?

[TheReverend]

vote: brian

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

[TheReverend]

33 - Reverend you accuse me here of wanting to avoid conflict. I'm going to let this pass because you haven't played with me before, but, if you truly believe this; do you think I'm likely to avoid conflict by hopping to the biggest wagons consistently?

I'm saying it struck me as weird that someone who was happy to wagon hop in RVS would not start a wagon on someone who had done something that you felt was worthy of your displeasure. That made me think you were trying to avoid conflict with me. I'm certainly not expecting you to continue to avoid conflict, whatever your alignment. I just found it odd that was your reaction to my self vote.

These two posts here read awkwardly. Like, he's trying too hard to be openly scummy and at the same time he's letting everyone know that he is doing it on purpose.

Why is my self vote scummy? Have you ever seen scum self vote first post? Do you see the town motivation in self voting first post?

[TheReverend]

I don't think his wagon fetish and ignoring your self vote is scummy.

He didn't ignore my self vote. He said he should vote me for it but there's no wagon. That's what I felt was weird. Why does town not start a wagon there? Why does town even care if there's an existing wagon or not, especially in RVS?

[TheReverend]

wall

This is a lot of words to explain a few vague town reads.

[TheReverend]

Monty Python reference. I am disappoint.

Indeed. I was amused by the brain/brian typo. I'm easily amused.

[TheReverend]

Is there any reason you think I would want to avoid conflict with you as opposed to everybody else in the thread?

You might not have played with me before, but you know me from the poker forum, and you surely know how tenacious I can be. You certainly know I'm a high content player.

No, there is no town motivation in self voting.

So reaction baiting is not town motivated?

Also, if you don't think self voting is scummy, what made you think it would 'give people something to talk about'?

Just because I don't think it's scummy, doesn't mean I'm not going to get anything from the reactions. Other people might think it's scummy, or better still, other people might say they think it's scummy while doing a bad job of convincing me of the sincerity of that position.

[TheReverend]

Right, so you knew self-voting would be considered scummy?

I expected it to get a reaction. As for being considered "scummy", that depends on who is reacting to it. Scum won't find it scummy because they know I'm not one of them, but they might pretend to find it scummy. Town might or might not find it scummy, and will be honest.

[TheReverend]

How does that work? If I hadn't said it was to get people talking, are people going to assume it's because I want to be lynched? Of course it's to get people talking. Even if I'm scum.

[TheReverend]

Why are you pretending to be dim?

[TheReverend]

How can I counter your point? You're moaning at me for saying I was reaction baiting, when it would be blatantly obvious that was what I was doing, without me saying so. Why else would you suppose I'd self vote first post?

[TheReverend]

Was your self-vote a reaction test or were you messing around? It can't be both.

Of course it can be both.

I know it's an obvious reaction test. That does not mean I won't get anything out of it. And even if I don't get anything out of it, so what? I don't expect to get lynched for that alone, so it's not like I'm taking a risk.

It's not like I'm making a claim to bait reactions, I'm doing something that very obviously has no other motive. I really don't understand why you're making something of this.

And yes, even though it's a reaction test, I acknowledge it's not exactly a world class reaction test, and has an element of amusing myself, or, dicking about.

Anyway, I'm getting great reactions from my obvious test, despite me saying it was a test.

vote rune

[TheReverend]

vote toffee

I don't like being told to get off wagons.

[TheReverend]

I do not think BBT is coming across as scummy in his attack on you, which should be what you are looking to determine from your post anyways. Given that, why continue with this defense and not look elsewhere?

Anyway, this is why rune is scum.

Notice here that rune doesn't think toffee is scummy. Now notice that rune wonders why I continue my interaction with toffee.

Why is rune expecting me to apply HIS reads to MY postings? Why should I stop engaging toffee based on rune's town read on him?

Rune is trying to divert my attention here. I don't sense any town motivation at all.

[TheReverend]

Nobody told you to get off a wagon though.

Oh I see you said "needed", not "need".

My mistake

vote rune

[TheReverend]

Why is rune probably town? Why would town apply a townread to you and assume that everyone else will naturally agree?

[TheReverend]

I hadn't looked at your read on brain, so I just did.

You question other people voting for him, and now you're throwing him into your lynch pool with me? It doesn't make any sense.

[TheReverend]

I don't understand... I town read BTT as well.

Ok so you're townreading toffee. Do you now think that because YOU read him as town, that I should too and should "look elsewhere"? This is my problem with rune. He thinks I should look elsewhere based on his read, rather than let me decide for myself what to do next.

Rune has given e more reason to think toffee is scum than toffee has.

[TheReverend]

he is making legitimate points.

No, he's not. He's moaning at me for making it obvious that my self vote was a reaction test, when it would be obvious anyway, without me saying it's to get people talking.

[TheReverend]

I'm not here to be liked. I'm here to find scum.

Or pretend to, of course.

Yes I think rune and toffee could be scum together. Rune is trying to nudge me away from toffee. Why do you suppose that is? Why is rune concerned about my read on toffee? Why does rune feel I should "look elsewhere"? Why would town say that?

[TheReverend]

I don't recall defending myself. I recall explaining myself, or at least trying to. To defend I need to actually be attacked.

I would normally agree that if I felt someone was scum buddying up to another person, I'd say the other person is more likely town. But not in this case, and that's because rune is encouraging me to "look elsewhere". That language made me feel like rune was nervous about my line of enquiry towards toffee.

[TheReverend]

Yay elyse made it.

Sup.

Any thoughts on TheDudeAbides?

[TheReverend]

This interaction makes TDA look good and Brain look bad. Brain seems too concerned with pg 1 scumreads on him.

I should read your wall better.

You were just scum with him, that's why I was curious about your opinion on him.

[TheReverend]

(I'm not the only one who has mentioned this)

Yeah rune is scum.

Where does the motivation for this quoted comment come from? What is the point of this?

Rune is trying to ram home what elyse said about me starting to look worse and toffee looking better. He's piggybacking off her. But he betrays a motivation here. Why does he say this at the end? He's reminding me he's not alone because he doesn't want me to brush it off, it's harder for me to say he's wrong if other people are saying it too. But if he's town, well he doesn't know if he's right or wrong, and he can't trust the motive of others like elyse. This isn't the frame of mind of someone who is trying to figure me out, this is the fram of mind of someone who is trying to keep the pressure on me whilst attempting to make it harder for me to defend by hiding behind numbers.

It feels to me like rune knows that there's town who suspects me, and he's taking advantage.

[TheReverend]

I'm glad it makes enough sense to follow my thought process. It was really tough for me to put in words what I was thinking.

[TheReverend]

Well that was an interesting catch up.

I like cowbells. A lot.

I think right now it looks like we're looking at a scum team of dann, rune and toffee who are in deep shit already. rune's vote for dann had me stop and consider, but then again if I were in that scum team, I'd be thinking we need to start pulling some moves. rune and dann can still be buddies.

Anyway, I'm busy until Monday, don't expect anything exciting from me until then.

[TheReverend]

Puts an active player to L-1 without saying anything about it.

I'm gonna go ahead and call null on this. I'm pretty sure I've put people on L-1 without being aware of the VC as town. In fact I'm more likely to not know what the VC is as town. I didn't realise it was an L-1 vote until he got called out for it.

[TheReverend]

It could even be argued that rune knew it was an L-1 vote because he's keeping a closer eye on the score than the average townie is.

Not so sure about dann. He looked really bad in exchange with cowbells, but that's possibly the result of cowbells looking so good.

rune though, I'm keeping my vote there.

[TheReverend]

I love this whole "I don't like this but you're ok" kind of attitude that rune has. He wants to dismiss me, not engage me.

But really, I think you're confusing your scum radar with people who have criticized you

Elyse critisised me. Elyse is my strongest town read. You're talking out of your arse.

On top of that, you're really quick to add associative tells to the mix, which are very likely meaningless at this point.

This is outstanding. Associative tells are what link people together. The reliablility of these tells on d1 might be less than later days, but that does NOT mean that it is futile to look in places like this. I've been in a scum team that was utterly soulread on d1 thanks to sick associative tells (still won though because I'm awesome). It can happen.

Your attempt to dismiss the relevance of associative tells is noted.

Of course it's pro-town to point out that a vote puts someone on L-1. You're missing the point. My point is that town is more likely to not know what the VC is. Scum could *pretend* to not know, so yeah giving town points out for it is ridiculous. But it's not scummy, even though in a perfect world it should be.

[TheReverend]

Yeah I must admit I laughed when elyse said she hopes this games isn't full of walls, then posts a wall.

[TheReverend]

Elyse critisised me. Elyse is my strongest town read. You're talking out of your arse.

This is wrong, I got elyse and cowbells confused.

Cowbells is my top town read.

Elyse is town toned, but then again I took a look at her ISO in monkey's nest and she seemed town toned there, so I'm null on elyse.

[TheReverend]

Right I'm done until Monday, have fun.

[TheReverend]

Arceus.

19 - by arceus is pretty bad. You dislike an obviously fake joke?
33 - what's wrong with this? It's an entirely legitimate reason to scumread someone at this stage of the game. I'm not quite sure why you're so keen to slap me down here, seeing as I assume you don't know toffee's alignment, and therefore should have no idea if my read is good or not.
39 - maybe not, but I'm interacting wiht him to try and refine my read. You shouldn't be trying to stop me doing this. Why are you?
66 - you really seem to have a problem with my methods. There's nothing wrong with this, certainly not from my pov. I don't care about your pov.
83 - how amusing - your telling me that stuff provides information, while trying to stop me scumreading by slapping me down at every opportunity.

I am very much unimpressed with arceus. Looks like I'm wrong about toffee.

[TheReverend]

Once again an entirely kneejerk scum reaction to someone who swings at you.

How is it a kneejerk reaction? I was scumreading you before, nothing has changed in that respect. How is it OMGUS? I've laid out my reasons for scumreading you, and it's not because you're "scumreading" me. You're using buzzwords, incorrectly I might add, in an attempt to dismiss me once again.

You're like the boy who cried wolf, and at some point I won't be the only one to calling you out for it.

More buzz words. Isn't everyone crying wolf here? What do you expect me to do if not cry wolf? Should I be townhunting? Perhaps I should hunt PRs. But not wolves. Right?

I don't care who calls me out for whatever. Survival is not my priority.

[TheReverend]

you have scumread anybody who makes a post with moderately significant criticisms of you.

That doesn't make it kneejerk. A kneejerk reaction is an ill considered reaction. I have considered my reads on those who attack me.

It should come as no surprise that I'm scumreading people who point the finger at me. I know they're wrong, so my next step is to try to determine if the attack on me is sincere. In your case, I do not believe it is. In toffee's case, I'm not so sure. I will continue to press those who attck me with crap, in an effort to further determine motive.

I get reads by interacting with people. When people interact with me in a manner I determine to be insincere, I tend to scumread them. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.

Furthermore, since when is OMGUS a scumtell? I often scumread people who scumread me, and I often pretend to. So it's very much null, as it is with the vast majority of people.

. Note that in 232 you suggest Toffee is scum and he hasn't posted since (with the exception of saying he will catch up). So why are you suddenly wrong about him?

I don't see you being so keen to slap down my read on toffee if you're scum with him. It's much more likely you're WK'ing him in an effort to get him on your side, in particular when it comes to pushing me.

[TheReverend]

On that note, you completely avoided answering my question about why you were wrong about him when he obviously hasn't posted anything to change your mind, instead turning it around on me. Please tell me why you were wrong.

I don't see you being so keen to slap down my read on toffee if you're scum with him. It's much more likely you're WK'ing him in an effort to get him on your side, in particular when it comes to pushing me.

[TheReverend]

I've already made it clear that your earlier interactions with him, from my perspective (and from others' as well) don't show a scumtell from him. I refuse to believe that you are unable to accept this.

It isn't a question of acceptance. You are trying to tell me that because YOU don't see a scum tell there, that I shouldn't.

That is not how this game works. Certainly not for me, anyway.

[TheReverend]

Why are you wrong about him? Why is this such a difficult question to answer? Why do you keep poorly manipulating my posts instead of answering my questions?

Have you been drinking stupid juice today?

I think you're scum.

I think you're buddying or WK'ing toffee, whatever you want to call it. I suspect you know he's town, and that you think you can rely on his support when it comes to pushing for my mislynch.

He doesn't need to post a thing for my read on him to change, if you give me reason for that read to change.

I can't believe that you're having to ask me three times to explain this. I can't believe you're this stupid. I can believe you're scum who just wants to continue to muddy the waters by asking me to explain what I've already explained.

I didn't slap your read down.

Didn't you?

I'm leaning towards BBT's side on this one. Reverend you seem to be defending a weak position awfully hard, and I'm not sure it's necessary.

I do not think BBT is coming across as scummy in his attack on you, which should be what you are looking to determine from your post anyways. Given that, why continue with this defense and not look elsewhere?

I don't think you'll get a scumread on BBT from this line of inquiry, as he is making legitimate points.

That's THREE TIMES that I could find through a quick scan of your ISO that you slap down my read on toffee. You're essentially telling me that I should apply your reads to toffee instead of mine, that I should stop tunneling toffee because YOU don't think he's scum, or because YOU don't think that I will gain anything from my tunnelling. You tell me to "look elsewhere". Why should I look elsewhere?

[TheReverend]

You changed your stance on him after a post from Arceus, not from me. You're deflecting so hard here it's unbelievable.

ffs so it's me who's drinking stupid juice.

This is why I shouldn't check mafia when I'm with the family. I don't have my notes to refer to, and I'm doing other stuff (such as watching awful tv with my 5 y/o niece). Hence, I'm getting confused about my reads with you and arceus.

fwiw if I were scum then it's highly unlikely that I'd bother to tunnel you based on stupid when I have an excuse to not even bother posting.

So make of that what you will. Meanwhile, I'll reassess tomorrow when I'm at home and fully engaged.

pedit - is this a private joke? Is that a serious vote or is this your personal RVS? And were you aware of the VC when you made that vote?

[TheReverend]

arceus is now a town read for me. I like the tone of his recent posts.

rune is still scummy. He seems way too happy that I spazzed and was forced to back off him. He's moaning at me for OMGUS'ing those who attack me, while he does exactly that when people attack him. The instant I back off him, suddenly I'm a town read. Where the hell did that come from? Just because I said I was distracted? I can make that up as scum when I get caught bullshitting reads. He's far too quick to accept my position.

Yeah I'm still scumreading rune.

[TheReverend]

P-edit: Uhh I don't really see that. I get your point about Rune's townread on you, but I don't like Arceus' tone at all and if you look at his arguments, they don't make sense.

I guess it doesn't help that I'm scumreading rune still. I mean if rune is scum, arceus looks a whole lot better. It could be blinkers that have me towning arceus. But his tone has a dinstinct air of idgaf, rather than someone who is trying to appease.

Of course rune looks better after the exchange with me. I derped, so it wasn't exactly difficult for him to get the upper hand in that little battle. That doesn't make him town.

[TheReverend]

If I'm townreading rune, then he's happy with me. If I'm scumreading him, he's not. He's not looking for scum. He's trying to stay alive.

[TheReverend]

Ok. I'm still unconvinced by your sincerity.

[TheReverend]

I can't figure out why havoc is a thing. It has me thinking that there's scum with votes and this is the counterwagon. I mean I see no reason to town havoc, but then again he has five posts and can't really see what the scum case is on him other than lynch a lurker. Seems like a convenient wagon.

[TheReverend]

Wait there's only elyse and cowbells on havoc, and I'm towning both of those.

I'm still not really seeing a scum case without some meta to back it up, but my suspicion that this is a scum driven counterwagon is likely to be wrong.

[TheReverend]

Is elyse singing Shania Twain?

Yeah I don't like my response to you pushing the wagon either. It was what I thought for a minute, and unfortunately I didn't think it through for any longer before posting. Whatever. I'm null as fuck on havoc, and leaning town on you, so it's no biggie to me. If you have a problem with me derping, vote for me.

[TheReverend]

Why is it every time rune talks I read it as scummy?

Hi hostile, nice to have you here. Fortunately your predecessor had exactly one RVS post so you are starting on a clean slate.

Why is this fortunate? It's only fortunate from your pov if you're scum with hostile intent. Me, I'd have preferred it if hostile's slot hadn't dodged all of d1 up until now.

Also, check out jake swinging for me when everyone else thinks I'm obvtown. I'll give him town points for that, I reckon scum will be more likely to just accept me as town and instead seek to NK me, rather than push for a tough mislynch.

Yeah self votes are horrible. It's not a habit. I thought it would be mildly amusing and might cause some half decent discussion. To say town should *never* vote themselves is stretching it a bit though, I mean it's not like I hammered myself. The question isn't if self voting is bad, anyway, it's if it's scummy. Do you think my self vote was scummy? If so, why do you suppose I would enter the game in such a manner? Isn't it just going to give people an excuse to take a push at me? Isn't it more likely that I'd want that to happen when I'm town?

[TheReverend]

Look, I can see how town can say what you said. But if you are town, your choice of words was clumsy. If you're scum with hostile, then you'd be happy that dialga didn't leave hostile in the shit.

This is not something I'm going to stress about right now. It's entirely possible that you were just clumsy with your choice of words, and coupled with my paranoia towards you, it pinged. But, I'm prepared to come back to this line of thought if either of you flip scum.

[TheReverend]

I've seen more than one person dismiss me as town. I can't be bothered to trawl the thread to see exactly who and when. You do it if you're that curious.

[TheReverend]

I'm unimpressed with havoc's recent post. I think he's the lynch for today.

[TheReverend]

Yeah I'm holding back to allow havoc more time to convince us otherwise, and to allow hostile some catchup time. As for jake and dude, well they've had plenty of time, I'm not waiting on those pair, we'll be here until winter.

[TheReverend]

Why are you sheeping elyse if you're not properly caught up? How can you be confident enough she's town?

[TheReverend]

As much as I really want to lynch palkia, I can't help feel that it wouldn't be so deliberately annoying if self preservation was important.

[TheReverend]

What's up with that?

113 posts

[TheReverend]

111

That was bad insta maths

[TheReverend]

276 - This doesn't address the issue Reverend. The people have changed, but the issue remains the same.

As I quoted, you said you don't see Rune hard defending their scum buddy by 'slapping down' your scum read of me yet you explicitly used that reasoning to justify how we were both scum.

Try again?

So I'm inconsistent when I'm tunnelling. Which alignment do you suppose cares more about consistency? I'm not reading back my posts to see who I'm linking to who, or what arguments I've made. I'm posting based on what I think at a particular instant in time. Guess what? That's a town tell.

[TheReverend]

@Reverend, yeah, I could buy that, if you hadn't only just tried to defend your position further. I know which alignment is more likely to be inconsistent with their reads and it's not the one with a green PM.

Well if you're not gleefully seizing on town derp then prepare to be surprised.

[TheReverend]

what the shitting fuck

If this is a town flip, then oversoul, havoc, hostile intent and palkia all need to be lynched.

otoh, if this is a scum flip, well we can clear them all.

[TheReverend]

vote palkia

this needs to happen for the hammer.

[TheReverend]

Jake and Reverend, can you state what you didn't like about the hammer and why it makes Palkia scum?

He replaced into a slot that was very scummy. Maybe he's decided that he's got no chance of survival and is just going to troll the shit out of the game. I have no idea. Basically it's a policy lynch, and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if he flipped scum. If he's town, he still needs to go. I was really hoping he'd be vig'd.

That hammer was not only scummy as shit, it was unacceptable imo.

[TheReverend]

I don't see how the hammer was scummy.

Show me where he stated intent and patiently waited for a claim.

[TheReverend]

Can you point out some posts from Palkia you dislike and why you dislike them?

Click his ISO, pretty much all the ones in pink or italics.

[TheReverend]

P.edit - palkia replaced Dan right? Dan wasn't scummy

Maybe not in your opinion.

Let's not forget that exchange he had with the late radiant cowbells.

[TheReverend]

Does this post feel scum to anyone else?

I'm not seeing it. He seems to be thinking along the same lines as me right now.

I'm not concerned about jake at this moment, I might be if palkia and havoc both flip town.

[TheReverend]

If the set of Palkia, Oversoul, Hostile, and Havoc doesn't contain at least two members of a scumteam, I will be surprised.

This, absolutely.

[TheReverend]

Policy lynches are bad.
By accepting a policy lynch, you're ok with scum coasting by for another day.

This assumes palkia has no chance of being scum.

Why would you make this assumption?

vote oversoul

[TheReverend]

@Rev why oversoul over havoc?

oversould suggested a policy lynch will be a town lynch. He knows something I don't.

[TheReverend]

Havoc was just replaced in another game. I don't know if he will continue to play in this game.

Excellent contribution.

Can anyone explain what the point of this post is?

There's nothing else of his either side of it for at least an hour. So he pops into the thread to tell us havoc is still site active. Then disappears again. Thanks oversoul. Really helpful.

There's a wagon on you building, have you got nothing to say about that?

[TheReverend]

I'm gonna do this.

VOTE: Rev

Still haven't read.

Come at me.

On no. Please don't lynch me.

Please.

[TheReverend]

Actual fear.

[TheReverend]

I think toffee actually thinks I'm scum. Which suggests he isn't.

[TheReverend]

Are you going to reply to anything?

I really can't be bothered.

I'm town. There's my reply to everything.

[TheReverend]

Yeah I'm probably not gonna care.

[TheReverend]

vote rune

[TheReverend]

Just as I'm starting to feel better about Rune, Reverend votes him.

Haha.

Why are you feeling better about him?

Town are really terrible because there is too much obvious idiocy coming from too many players to be purely from scum. Simultanesouly, there is so much idiocy in this game that some of it has to come from scum.

Town are really terrible? How does he know?

[TheReverend]

I don't.

[TheReverend]

My current opinion on Rev is that he is almost certainly town. If he is scum, then I am mad at all the useless townies who acted scummy or who lurked enough to let him get by.

I'm having a really difficult time getting into rune's head here.

How does the scumminess or lurkiness of others reflect my towniness? Why am I such a strong town read if it's based on what other people are posting?

[TheReverend]

So... If Rune weighs more than a duck...
Then he's made of wood.
And therefore...
A WITCH!
BURN HIM!

VOTE: Rune

If there's one thing sadder than quoting Python, it's quoting Python badly.

[TheReverend]

I don't believe rune. The strong town read on me doesn't seem to add up. I feel like I've been playing a really sloppy game here, my interest is somewhat lower than average. I could easily be scum who is struggling to get into my stride. But rune thinks I'm obvtowning. If I were obvtowning, then I wouldn't have three votes.

To lean town with me is one thing, to flat out dismiss me as obvtown in this spot is more likely to come from someone who knows what they see is town.

I feel like rune is taking this position with me because his buddies are pushing for my lynch, and he's doing his best to dodge me for VCA reasons. His position seems unnatural.

rune, not mafia and monkey, that's where I'm at right now.

[TheReverend]

Noted that you admit Palkia's lynch is a policy lynch.

Of course it's a policy lynch. That doesn't mean it's not a scum lynch. You seemed to hint that a policy lynch is a town lynch, by saying that it allows scum to coast for another day, which had me thinking you knew something I didn't about palkia's alignment.

[TheReverend]

Rev, what is your read on Jake?

I think scum is in rune, not mafia, monkey, and you. Everyone else is a town read based on numbers alone. Once I can see I'm wrong in my assumptions, then jake becomes less of a town read.

And yeah rune seems town in a lot of his posts. That doesn't mean he's town, he could be good scum. Anyone can put their town head on when scum.

Nobody else thinks I'm obvtown. People have me as town, others think scummy, but only one person thinks I'm outright obvtown. Why is that? What's he seeing that noone else is? Why can he tone read me better than the likes of farside?

Something isn't adding up with rune. Thus, I think he's scum.

[TheReverend]

What are the chances that Nikanor didn't prod Palkia because Nikanor knew Palkia was active because Palkia was scum?

This is the opposite of helpful.

[TheReverend]

So how often do you see scum say "I'm voting for a or b" and then vote c?

[TheReverend]

696 - You can reply now Rev. Brushing it off isn't going to work.

I'm town.

[TheReverend]

@Rev - You're getting lynched. Only a matter of time. You don't feel the need to defend yourself right now because you're mostly town read, I'll crush those town reads and you'll start defending yourself/flailing all the way L-0 and eat rope.

I'm town.

[TheReverend]

758 - Second time Rev mentions Not_Mafia and MonkeyMan who ARE NOT IN THIS GAME. Still, nobody picks it up. He also mentions Farside in this post for some reason.

Why would you even point this out? You know exactly what I've done, and it requires no further explanation because it's against site rules.

I will not elaborate on this further, and you should not bring it up again.

[TheReverend]

Are all British people this arrogant?

LOL, did you just actually scum slip Oversoul?

I'm thinking there's something to this.

I think this was meant for the scum PT, and was in reference to toffee.

[TheReverend]

Toffee... guess what...

Spoiler:

I'm town

[TheReverend]

Toffee, what are you going to do when I flip town?

[TheReverend]

But you know, if that did somehow happen I'd say you played badly and lynch Elyse.

I like it. You misread me horribly, then blame me.

Granted I'm playing like shit. But so are you. Assuming you're town, of course. If you're scum, then you're playing very fucking well indeed, because you're doing a great job of convincing me that you actually think I'm scum.

[TheReverend]

Why are you not concerned with Elyse's town read of you?

Because I think she's town. If she's scum she's slipping through the net. Well, my net. That's not a concern just yet, there's a long way to go, and it's not like my reads matter.

[TheReverend]

I push people for whatever reason I see fit.

[TheReverend]

Rune isn't convincing me of his sincerity, not like you.

Elyse, I haven't even looked at her in any detail.

[TheReverend]

If you're scum reading Rune for town reading you then the same should apply for Elyse.

Not at all. Not if my gut tells me that one is more sincere than the other. I don't need anyone else to tell me who I should be scumreading or townreading.

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that I trust my gut enough to base my early game reads on. I don't care if my reads make sense to you, or anyone else. I don't even care if they make sense to me. I'll worry more about that if I'm still in the game when we have a scum flip or some PR info to work with.

[TheReverend]

I don't give a flying fuck what you think about my methods. I don't give a monkey's if I get lynched.

Aaaaaan that's why I'm town, fyi.

[TheReverend]

You've only just finished 'offering yourself to be lynched' as scum.

Yeah because I had no choice. I was in danger of being PoE'd, as town I'd accept my lynch there provided it makes it likely town wins, so as scum I have to pretend to be happy about it. This is entirely different. I really don't give a fuck. I don't really have the appetite for days and days of "you're scum" and "no I'm town". So I kind of hope I do get lynched soon, so you can pull your head out of your arse and hunt scum without having rev=scum blinkers on.

[TheReverend]

I'm not going to read anything else either I'm dead or palkia is.

[TheReverend]

If we have a vig, I WILL PAY YOU to shoot Palkia.

THIS

[TheReverend]

i'm serious about that by the way, rev is town for sure

Normally I'd keep quiet about this, but this looks like a crumb to me.

Scum, NK palkia please.

[TheReverend]

How can you be so sure you'll survive the night toffee?

Seems a little presumptuous.

[TheReverend]

Toffee would be a hig priority NK if he's town. If I'm scum, I'd want him gone because he's so vocally against me. And If I'm town, then scum will recognise that killing toffee puts pressure on me.

Either way, there's good reason for toffee to get hit tonight. Why doesn't he see that?

[TheReverend]

Didn't jake say he's coming round to your line of thinking regarding me?

[TheReverend]

Toffee is making one huge assumption here that doesn't tally with his reads.

He's assuming I'm not scum.

[TheReverend]

I won't get killed tonight.

haha

It wasn't me.

[TheReverend]

So oversoul killed toffee in an attempt to implicate elyse?

pedit - hi5

[TheReverend]

Seriously?

[TheReverend]

vote axehole

[TheReverend]

This isn't close.

oversoul claims bodyguard and begs people to unvote, and axehole puts him to L-1 with a hammer happy muppet in the game?

Kill it.

[TheReverend]

There's no bodyguard in this game.

Elaborate please.

[TheReverend]

So why the hell would you put him at L-1 when palkia has snaphammered two people already?

[TheReverend]

So why the hell would you put him at L-1 when palkia has snaphammered two people already?

Because it's hilarious and because you don't listen to reason... So making a case is absolutely pointless.

This explains nothing.

Hilarious? I'm in fits of laughter.

[TheReverend]

And axe is probably town.

I hate to say it but I agree. It makes little sense for axehole to draw so much attention to himself by risking palkia hammering a claimed PR.

unvote

Really not digging an oversoul lynch though. He can be put to one side until massclaim. I'd consider a doc to be a cc, so he can wait.

[TheReverend]

i didn't log in and forgot to submit n1 so i faked a rev inno

haha bravo

lynch elyse

[TheReverend]

vote elyse

[TheReverend]

unvote

[TheReverend]

What prevented you from bringing this up at the beginning of D3?

Call me a liar if you want, but I was kind of expecting another town flip when I said that.

[TheReverend]

Havoc was so obviously scum it hurt. Unfortunately I can believe you didn't pay enough attention to realize it.

Sometimes I'm awesome, sometimes I suck. This game it seems I suck. I don't care so long as we win.

[TheReverend]

Going largely unnoticed, much like havoc. So probably scum.

[TheReverend]

UNVOTE: HaVoC
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

Like, there's naked pressure votes, then there's naked L-1 votes, and I have no words for how terrible that vote is. Basically everything Oversheep said. I obviously need to read the thread but I'm busy and I super don't want to, so this'll do for the meantime.

Does scum really ever derp this brilliantly?

Here HI throws down a naked L-1 vote (which gets hammered), and then says how horrible it is to do exactly what he's doing right here.

I can't see this coming from scum. It's just too ridiculous.

[TheReverend]

Yeah HI is scum. I just took a look at his ISO in his noob game and he was much more engaged than he is here.

He? She? Avatar makes me think she.

I digress. HI here is all one liners, very little engagement, wheras in 1593 it's town motivated walls and the like. Such a contrast. This must be alignment indicative for a noob.

[TheReverend]

Show me you mean it by voting. Let's get this wagon started.

I'm waiting to see what elyse has to say.

Aren't you curious to see how that plays out?

[TheReverend]

Rev, you wouldn't happen to think that maybe I was more interactive that game because it wasn't as complacent a town as we've got here?

No, I can't see why town complacency would impact on your post quality. This feels to me like you're trying to find an explanation.

[TheReverend]

Are you saying that the quality of this game hasn't impacted your posting quality?

I don't blame others for my failings.

I've pointed out there is a clear difference between HI's recent noob game and this one. HI is blaming the game state for this. There might be some truth to it, idk, but I'm not buying it. If HI is unhappy with the quality of the game, then HI has the power to up his/her quality in an effort to improve things.

It's convenient for scum to coast and claim it's everyone else's fault for not being good enough. I can't accept that when it's easier to believe that HI has alignment indicative tells relating to activity and enthusiasm.

[TheReverend]

Lazy sod.

Hostile intent > view their topics > newb 1593 (game over)

Here's Hostile Intent in ISO from this game - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Would you like me to make you a sandwich now?

[TheReverend]

idk and idgaf

[TheReverend]

Watercress? What animal does that come from?

[TheReverend]

vote hostile intent

[TheReverend]

unvote

Not yet you won't

[TheReverend]

I don't like the timing of this vote.

Do you like the timing of my unvote?

[TheReverend]

I only tend to read my predecessor's post's when I sub into a scum slot. I like to know if I've been left in the shit. When I sub into a town slot, my focus is more on what other people are saying.

Not liking saint.

[TheReverend]

Ah, I seem to have misread the vote post. "VT... Palkia's bullshitting."

This is town.

Scum doesn't misread claims.

[TheReverend]

VOTE: Hostile Intent

Elyse is scum

Rune is scum.

Saint is scum.

Excellent analysis.

Also is there any reason you're scumreading three people while keeping your vote on hostile? Based on the chronology of these posts, I assume you either no longer scumread hostile, or you believe there's more than three baddies. One way or another you need to explain yourself, I feel.

[TheReverend]

TheReverend is scum.

This is so predictable that I'm ashamed of myself for not predicting it.

[TheReverend]

Are you serious?

Totally. I would assume scum is going to be paying more attention to your claim, especially if you're town. How curious that you don't see that. Could that be because you're not town? From your town pov, you see someone basically miss the bit where you claim VT (or at least claim to). Why isn't that worth even the slightest bit of town cred?

If you're scum though, well you already know HI's alignment, so you're not looking for the subtle hints to refine your read. Maybe you don't want to give HI cheap town points because that's a mislynch that is very close to happening.

Holy shit, I think I'm finally starting to make sense to myself.

[TheReverend]

Missing a VT claim after someone accused that person of having a gun is not your average oversight, certainly not from scum.

[TheReverend]

I mean if I'm scum and elyse is town, then I'm sitting there practically mashing f5 waiting for elyse to post in response to palkia. That's maybe one PR exposed, possibly two with palkia. This kind of stuff, scum pay attention to.

[TheReverend]

I agree. Rev is scum.

A fine conclusion to draw.

So am I scum desperately and blatantly trying to save my nearly dead buddy? Or is this a pathetic attempt for town cred before the flip?

[TheReverend]

When I joined in I had a feeling if I replaced the other slot I was replacing into a mafia slot

What other slot?

havoc and dude were replaced from the same post in the queue.

May 12 -

Mini 1668: Mafia in Bremen

Moderator:

Nikanor

Status:

Day 2, 34 pages

Replacing:

HaVoC & TheDudeAbides

Still, it's weird that saint "had a feeling". I can't quite put my finger on it but something feels off about this.

[TheReverend]

I'm curious what the JEEP thing is too.

Whatever it is, here in England we'll call it the LAND ROVER tell instead.

[TheReverend]

Oh awesome he's going to work through a checklist of scum tells on me? I'll laugh as I nod my head in acknowledgement through each one, before flipping town.

[TheReverend]

Curious why he thinks that a Gunsmith means a vig *has* to be in this game.

I'd expect there to be a townie with a gun, and vig is the most likely, especially given mulitple deaths on n1.

It seems very likely we have a vig to me. The question is if we have a gunsmith.

[TheReverend]

I have seen no reason not to lynch HI. Let's hammer.

No. We should wait for palkia. We've still got a the small matter of the gunsmith claim and the denial. Why the hurry?

[TheReverend]

*stares blankly at Reverend*

Would you like a bong?

[TheReverend]

Did RC have multiple personalities? Do tell me who these multiple deaths were.

ffs multiple games derp shush now.

No, but clearly you've been using yours too much.

It's literally impossible to use a bong "too much".

[TheReverend]

Whoever put the 'b' in subtle is a fucking genius.

[TheReverend]

I'm not hammering. I think hostile town slipped with that VT thing. I don't see scum missing the claim. It can be argued that hostile is making us think she missed it for the town cred that comes with it, but seeing as I'm literally the only person in the world who seems to think along these lines, I'd say it's unlikely that was the plan.

If palkia insists he's gunsmith, then we should lynch elyse.

[TheReverend]

Um people do realise that if palkia is gunsmith then elyse is scum, right?

[TheReverend]

Your arguments are bad. You should feel bad.

I feel terrible that I'm not up to your required standards.

I might cry.

[TheReverend]

I think the sheer stubborn refusal to claim hints more at town than scum.

[TheReverend]

I want to know who to protect tonight.

Not me.

[TheReverend]

Why?

Because it's not likely to save her unless someone like me derps up with "hey this is weirdly a town tell".

Scum would be much more likely imo to either fakeclaim a PR to draw a cc and fend off the lynch mob, or claim VT in the hope the lack of fakeclaim is enough to save them. Scum refusing to claim at L-1 is the last resort of someone who is relying on wifom and someone like me to actually point all this shit out.

I think town. This is a mislynch.

[TheReverend]

Why?

I think town. This is a mislynch.

Which of Oversoul and Palkia is scum then?

Why does there have to be scum between them?

I'd say if there has to be, it's oversoul, based on palkia derp hammering scum.

[TheReverend]

I think refusing to claim is sort of like soft claiming in that it makes people hesitant to lynch you and scum can easily do it because they are never locked into a claim.

To me, it's more of a scum move.

I can see it from this pov too. hmm I guess well meet halfway and call this point null.

Still, there's the fact she missed your VT claim. Do you really think scum misses that? Assuming you're town, then you must surely understand that scum would be waiting for your claim. Town too, of course, but scum with more interest. That is, if you're town. If you're scum, well that explains why you're not thinking how I would be if I were town in your shoes.

Or maybe you just smoke less bongs than me. idk.

[TheReverend]

Oh dear I said something that doesn't tally exactly with something I agreed with 600+ posts ago.

[TheReverend]

At what point will you admit to being stubborn to the point of being detrimental to town?

That's your opinion, which you're welcome to, and one I disagree with. You're basing this on a sample size of one. My sincerest apologies for not owning this game.

[TheReverend]

we have a guilty so we lynch the guilty right? I mean that's how I always play

palkia claimed elyse has a gun, elyse claimed bullshit, we're waiting on palkia.

Fuck knows why hostile is still at L-1. Probably because she's town and the scums on the wagon don't want to move when it's so tantalisingly close.

[TheReverend]

I'm not going to protect Jake. I think he is scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elyse

oh yeah this

[TheReverend]

I guess if hostile is town then this is worthy of town points for oversoul

[TheReverend]

I think we should lynch oversoul.

Everyone listen to the crazy bong smoking reverend.

Jesus loves you all.

vote oversoul

[TheReverend]

2. Rev is town. Not helpful town, but town.

Yeah this isn't looking like my finest moment. I really don't care though. I'm putting the effort in, in the sense I'm at least bothering to keep updated, and if I'm around in endgame, I'll be useful because I'll have a lot more info and a lot less people to work with. So I'm not losing any sleep over the matter. It's not like we're lacking in leadership.

Still, I've given you reasons why hostile intent is town. I think oversoul is scum. I want to lynch oversoul first because, naturally, in a situation where I think we have scum/town, I'd hope to lynch the scum without having to lynch the town. I'm making this clear just for the sake of post-flip discussion. You say I'm not helpful, but maybe I'm right and just failing at getting my thoughts across is a manner that makes sense to others.

I expect we'll lynch HI, and I'll probably end up supporting it. The palkia/elyse situation can wait, the waters are muddy and I think we're best off simply hoping that palkia doesn't pick up his prod and gets subbed. I don't think we should lynch though until palkia or the replacement is here.

[TheReverend]

Except oversoul has claimed pr and has been willing to contribute significantly while HI has done neither. What is your opinion on this?

Oversoul is a lot more pro-town than HI. That doesn't matter. If anything, it could be argued that oversoul is demonstrating more survivalist instincts than HI. HI has refused to claim and isn't really behaving in a manner than scum does when so close to lynch. Granted that's just my opinion. Oversoul is working hard in the hope it saves him at HI's expense.

[TheReverend]

I really, really want to lynch Oversoul. But I think HI lynch gives more information to town given the PR claims and HI's lack of cooperation. Oversoul is obviously playing the game and making an honest effort either way, while HI is not. If Oversoul gets to L-1 though I will hammer.

HOW CAN YOU RECONCILE THESE THOUGHTS IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH OMYGOD

Let's walk through this...

Rune wants to lynch Oversoul
HI lynch gives more information
HI is not contributing to the game state
Oversoul is trying and contributing to the game state
If Oversoul gets to L-1, I will hammer the person who is trying and contributing to the game state (TOWNIE FUCKING THINGS TO DO) as opposed to HI who is not contributing, cooperating, or making any honest effort and is overall a better lynch for information.

?????????

This post really pings for me, not least because he's using contribution in an effort to swing opinion.

[TheReverend]

oversoul claimed bodyguard, I actually forgot about that.

I feel like we wouldn't have a bg if we have a doc or JK, so this should wait too.

hmm.

[TheReverend]

I'd probably have cc'd doc by now but not JK.

I think oversoul's claim is likely legit based on it not being the best fakeclaim for scum. Is it a viable fakeclaim at this stage of the game? What's the benefit? He might lure a cop into claiming to draw the protection, but it's no guarantee, and he's still hoping there's no other protective roles out there. The risk far outweights the reward, as I see it.

oversoul must be town.

sigh.

[TheReverend]

Intent to hammer

[TheReverend]

I'm not going to hammer until palkia returns or gets replaced, but yes HI should claim quickly. I'm V/LA thursday to monday, I hope the day is resolved by then.

[TheReverend]

It's worth noting that the claimed bodyguard isn't the one saying we should wait for the claimed gs situation to be resolved before we lynch.

[TheReverend]

Rune, I would be okay with protecting anyone who claims a PR. My action would probably go towards the person with the strongest PR.

Like, why isn't he saying to me "hey rev, hammer is cool but make sure it's not before palkia picks up his prod, because I need to know whether to protect him or not".

[TheReverend]

I'm just having a paranoid moment.

It's just, from bg pov, you should see me state intent, and you should be thinking whoah, hold your horses. At least, that's what I'd be thinking if I were bg in this spot.

[TheReverend]

then I can't protect him tonight anyway because he is macho.

I didn't see him say this.

[TheReverend]

Vote Count 2.03

HaVoC (3)

- Elyse, Rune, NotAnAxehole

Rune (3)

- TheReverend, BlueBloodedToffee, Hostile Intent

Palkia (1)

- Jake from State Farm

Hostile Intent (1)

- Oversoul

Not Voting (3)

- TheDudeAbides, Palkia, HaVoC

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-05-22 23:19:00).

Palkia has been prodded.

This is looking critical to me.

Here, confscum is in trouble, and rune is the counterwagon.

It looks a lot to me based on this that rune is town (which I already strongly suspected), and hostile is indeed scum.

If she's not then idk what the fuck is going on with the wagons.

I'm also starting to think jake is scum. Through d2, his vote avoids havoc/jeanne until it becomes a lost cause.

hostile and jake make a lot of sense based on the d2 vote counts.

Let's have a glance at d1.

[TheReverend]

Vote Count 1.06
HaVoC (5) - RadiantCowbells, Palkia, Elyse, Hostile Intent, Rune
Prolapsed Brain (4) - HaVoC, TheDudeAbides, Jake from State Farm, BlueBloodedToffee
Rune (3) - TheReverend, Arceus, Prolapsed Brain

Prolapsed Brain (7) - HaVoC, TheDudeAbides, Jake from State Farm, BlueBloodedToffee, Oversoul, Hostile Intent, Palkia
HaVoC (4) - RadiantCowbells, Elyse, Rune, Prolapsed Brain

HI doesn't look good here either, she manages to shift her vote from confscum to conftown to seal the mislynch.

I'm utterly sold. I was right with my meta and wrong to dish out town points for refusing to claim.

pedit - yes I'm waiting. You should unvote to deprive HI of the self hammer. Quickly now oversoul.

[TheReverend]

Its also possible that Rune is also scum if you're town, Rev. You/BBT may have built a counterwagon completely by accident.

Rune isn't scum. He talks like town, acts like town, votes like town, and gets wagonned when scum is in trouble. The fact you're trying to make me paranoid about him is just further evidence that you're scum.

[TheReverend]

I have no problem with a Jake scum read. But I have a problem with anyone suggesting Jake and Elyse are scum together. But yeah,I'm perfectly happy with a hostile lynch any time and oversoul is playing more and more town.

Nah it's jake and hostile.

And yes, I'm coming round to jake. I actually took a look at the wagons and it's pretty obvious.

[TheReverend]

Why aren't I scummy from you pov HI? I mean if you're town, then you can see a dead townie and you, voting for the cw to scum... shoulnd't that ping that fuck out of your scumdar?

[TheReverend]

Whoa that happened.

If HI is town then I'm back to not having a fucking clue.

[TheReverend]

Nothing makes any sense.