Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[TheReverend]

I don't believe rune. The strong town read on me doesn't seem to add up. I feel like I've been playing a really sloppy game here, my interest is somewhat lower than average. I could easily be scum who is struggling to get into my stride. But rune thinks I'm obvtowning. If I were obvtowning, then I wouldn't have three votes.

To lean town with me is one thing, to flat out dismiss me as obvtown in this spot is more likely to come from someone who knows what they see is town.

I feel like rune is taking this position with me because his buddies are pushing for my lynch, and he's doing his best to dodge me for VCA reasons. His position seems unnatural.

rune, not mafia and monkey, that's where I'm at right now.

[Rune]

I really don't like your play, we've been over this. Reconciling that to the current context of the game, I do think you're obvtown and this is really all I've got to say on this topic.

[TheReverend]

Noted that you admit Palkia's lynch is a policy lynch.

Of course it's a policy lynch. That doesn't mean it's not a scum lynch. You seemed to hint that a policy lynch is a town lynch, by saying that it allows scum to coast for another day, which had me thinking you knew something I didn't about palkia's alignment.

[Oversoul]

I strongly think that Palkia is town, which is why I said that Rev.

Rev, what is your read on Jake?
I think you're discounting the other very town things that Rune has done. Sure, his reasoning for a lot of town reads seems to be PoE mixed with "other people are super scummy" but he has done some very town things.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ BBT - here is my stuff about palkia

Spoiler:

ok I think you were the one who said you liked palkia's entrance to the game, I know somebody said it. here is his entrance

VOTE: rune

i request you replace out and help us achieve that vision

i have no intention of reading anything prior to my replace-in

opinions?

IMO this is a horrible entrance. I realize people give town cred to people who enter games like this but I have seen scum make similar entrances.

His entire iso is nothing but trolling and cursing at people which doesn't help me determine his alignment. I know most people tend to write off this behavior as town, however I have seen scum utilize this strategy before. The hammer was just the icing on the trolling cake. he has only had 1 useful post all game and that post was this one - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6832681 which could easily have come from scum especially because the logic behind that post is bad.

[Jake from State Farm]

OK.

While you're there, what do you think about HI possibly being scum?

I could actually see HI being scum, kinda staying in the middle of the pack not really doing much to help the game or draw attention to himself. I don't like the L-1 vote without announcing it but he claims he didn't know that, can't tell if that is genuine or not.

[Oversoul]

Are you going to vote Havoc, Jake?

[Jake from State Farm]

no I am going to keep my vote on palkia

[TheReverend]

Rev, what is your read on Jake?

I think scum is in rune, not mafia, monkey, and you. Everyone else is a town read based on numbers alone. Once I can see I'm wrong in my assumptions, then jake becomes less of a town read.

And yeah rune seems town in a lot of his posts. That doesn't mean he's town, he could be good scum. Anyone can put their town head on when scum.

Nobody else thinks I'm obvtown. People have me as town, others think scummy, but only one person thinks I'm outright obvtown. Why is that? What's he seeing that noone else is? Why can he tone read me better than the likes of farside?

Something isn't adding up with rune. Thus, I think he's scum.

[Oversoul]

I think you're very likely town, although I thought your Day 1 posting is better than your Day 2 posting.

[Hostile Intent]

My reads list is pretty much cohesive to NAA's. That's neat and gives me good feels about him.

Aside from that I'm about a page behind and have concluded I'm not reading pre-entrance pages.

[Rune]

NAA has you as scum
...

[Hostile Intent]

Mhm.

I didn't think I had to point out "except his scum read on me," that should be obv.

[Hostile Intent]

"Yeah so I'm scum-reading myself guys" rofl gtfo

[Rune]

So you don't have other scum reads than the two he pointed out?

[Hostile Intent]

I was wary of him until his list, so that's settling down a little. I'm fence-sitting on Elyse because I'm stubborn. I haven't seen a single TDA post and HaVoC was hot garbage from what I saw. The townreads aren't set in stone for me but honestly I'd like to see some activity from them, Elyse, and some follow-up from NAA as his vote seems like a safe place to be (which is why I haven't voted that way myself).

So yeah, pretty much.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

577 - Your read on Axe here makes no sense, Rune. It's very wishy-washy. Explain your town read on Axe again for me please?

584 - Where is Hostile in this lynch list? You seem much more focused on Palkia, Oversoul and Havoc. Why not HI?

I mean, your case against Oversoul is 'he's too good as scum so I want to lynch him now before he just becomes so town I have no chance.' You're not considering that Oversoul just might be town. This is scummy.

593 - Rune is lining lynches up here, this feels scummy as fuck. I've seen enough now.

VOTE: Rune

594 - I like this post from Axe. I'm far from impressed by Elyse's contributions/reads so far this game and I could absolutely see this team.

I'm not big on associatives though and Rune is independently scummy, so, help me lynch him?

597 - I don't think the wagon was town driven (given the early votes were parked votes for a while. There will be scum on the wagon, and it's not Oversoul, Palkia or myself.

[Hostile Intent]

I give this wagon my blessing.

VOTE: Rune

[Rune]

BBT you are bad and you should feel bad. I'll answer you after work.

[Rune]

577 -

1. Your read on Axe here makes no sense, Rune. It's very wishy-washy. Explain your town read on Axe again for me please?

584 -

2. Where is Hostile in this lynch list? You seem much more focused on Palkia, Oversoul and Havoc. Why not HI?

I mean, your case against Oversoul is 'he's too good as scum so I want to lynch him now before he just becomes so town I have no chance.' You're not considering that Oversoul just might be town. This is scummy.

593 -

3. Rune is lining lynches up here, this feels scummy as fuck. I've seen enough now.

VOTE: Rune

594 -

4. I like this post from Axe. I'm far from impressed by Elyse's contributions/reads so far this game and I could absolutely see this team.

I'm not big on associatives though and Rune is independently scummy, so, help me lynch him?

597 -

5. I don't think the wagon was town driven (given the early votes were parked votes for a while. There will be scum on the wagon, and it's not Oversoul, Palkia or myself.

1. It makes sense to me. Regardless, most of my townreads right now boil down to them not being on my list of scumreads. I would expect a different playstyle from Axe as scum in this kind of game.

2. HI looks like a possible scapegoat. Particularly at the beginning of D2, I was much more focused on Palkia and Oversoul, which was consistent with my end of D1 focus.

I am in fact considering that Oversoul might be town, and I have explained that despite my thought that he is scum, how my reads would change if he flipped town. How is that not considering the possibility of town Oversoul?

3. Your comment has nothing to do with the post you quoted. The post you quoted also contradicts your previous comment from point 2.

4. How can you like that post from Axe? It is incorrect that I wanted to lynch him D2. Factually incorrect. Blatant lie. I actually townread him in response to Elyse. But you like it. Are you serious?

5. If the wagon was not town drive, then Havoc is almost certainly scum and there is scum on the wagon. I am not Havoc and I wasn't on the wagon. Why aren't you voting Havoc? Why aren't you identifying who on the wagon you think is scum (although it's pretty obvious you're referring to HI).

Your vote on me is obviously not in the interest of town. Your post is also really bad. At this point, Havoc is almost certainly the correct lynch, and I haven't seen any reason why that shouldn't be the case.

[Elyse]

Super busy day. Will hopefully post tonight.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1. It makes sense to me. Regardless, most of my townreads right now boil down to them not being on my list of scumreads. I would expect a different playstyle from Axe as scum in this kind of game.

2. HI looks like a possible scapegoat. Particularly at the beginning of D2, I was much more focused on Palkia and Oversoul, which was consistent with my end of D1 focus.

I am in fact considering that Oversoul might be town, and I have explained that despite my thought that he is scum, how my reads would change if he flipped town. How is that not considering the possibility of town Oversoul?

3. Your comment has nothing to do with the post you quoted. The post you quoted also contradicts your previous comment from point 2.

4. How can you like that post from Axe? It is incorrect that I wanted to lynch him D2. Factually incorrect. Blatant lie. I actually townread him in response to Elyse. But you like it. Are you serious?

5. If the wagon was not town drive, then Havoc is almost certainly scum and there is scum on the wagon. I am not Havoc and I wasn't on the wagon. Why aren't you voting Havoc? Why aren't you identifying who on the wagon you think is scum (although it's pretty obvious you're referring to HI).

Your vote on me is obviously not in the interest of town. Your post is also really bad. At this point, Havoc is almost certainly the correct lynch, and I haven't seen any reason why that shouldn't be the case.

1. I'm not particularly interested in how it makes sense to you. It needs to make sense to everyone else.

Having town reads because 'they're not in your scum reads' is dumb as fuck. Like, that might be the worst reasoning I have ever seen for a town read. Stop basing every single one of your reads on associatives/crack pot theories you're producing and start analyzing content.

2. Can you expand on why HI is a scapegoat? Out of everyone, why would he be the scapegoat? Yeah you're consistently looking to lynch town, I get that.
(disclaimer, this is not a slip before Rev jumps on it)

3. The post shows you lining up lynches. You need to lynch Oversoul first because if he is town you can still lynch Palkia. Lining up lynches.

4. I like his points on you/Elyse. You both strike me as particularly scummy.

5. I'll do this when I catch up properly. I need some time, I'm wondering why you don't think Havoc is a scapegoat but HI is. Havoc is very likely to get replaced also, so we should wait for that to happen.

HI and Jake look like good shots for scum on the PB wagon.

[Rune]

@BBT

I also really dislike how you are making an argument based on posts from 200 posts ago, when you could have made those arguments then. All 5 of your quotes posts are within 20 posts of each other, and it looks like you're just backtracking to justify a position you want to have now.

P. edit

1. No, I don't really care.
2. Because multiple people came out and accused HI of being scum, some of whom I thought were scummy.
3. No... I said if Oversoul is town, Palkia is town. That means I wouldn't lynch Palkia. My post is doing exactly the opposite of what you're saying. Fucking read.
4. His points include a factually incorrect statement. I'm really glad that's the type of post you like, it's going to get you really far.
5. Havoc had a counterwagon when he was about to be lynched. A counterwagon you agree is not town driven. How are you even asking me this?

[Jake from State Farm]

The fact you completely write palkia off as town really bugs me bbt, the fact that your attempt to explain why he's town is a complete 180 to his actual contribution to the game is also weird. If you were a new, I'd say you were protecting him but you aren't. I just don't see how you town read someone so obviously scummy

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I couldn't because I wasn't following the game properly. I've been ridiculously busy lately and I'm in an absurd amount of games at the moment. What difference does it make whether it was then or now?

1. Right. This is a great way for scum to fabricate their reads; you don't need to provide any reasoning other than 'they're not in my scum reads'. Weak. As. Fuck.

2. Multiple people came out and called Palkia scum. Multiple people have come out and claimed Havoc is scum. What's the difference?

3. I misread. My bad.

4. Yeah, if you're going to keep harping on about that when that's not what I am talking about then whatever.

5. Havoc wasn't close to being lynched. I said we could not establish whether the wagon was town driven because the votes were parked from early in the game. The end of the wagon is town though (with exception of HI).

Just because we had two wagons, it does not mean one of them was on scum. For example, why do you think RC was killed? Do you think it's possible we're supposed to see PB (confirmed town) and RC (confirmed town) and assume the Havoc wagon was on scum?

PEdit - I just think he is town. (I am worried he isn't posting here though)