New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[SilverWolf]

/confirm

[SilverWolf]

Hi everyone!!

VOTE: Skybird

It's been so long since we've played together. Good to see you again.

Cheet: I'm kind of worried about Aero. He hasn't been around in a few days and hasn't started his game yet that I'm in despite saying he would a couple days ago. Hope everything is o.k. with him. I always worry about people when they just disappear like that.

[SilverWolf]

Well he joined this game on the 11th in the queue.
Two days isn't that long of a time to be a little AWOL. I'm sure he's fine.

I know. I tend to be a mother hen when it comes to my friends sometimes. I should just drunk post more and get over that.

Now, do you wanna help me kill him before he gets back?
Wouldn't that be fun?

Well, let him check in first and show himself as scum with his opening post and then I'm all over that.


pedit: Hey Skybird!! How are you?

[SilverWolf]

OK CHEET, NO PROBLEM.

CAPS PARTY, REMINDS ME OF GM.

<3

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Egg

Can we crack it open and eat it?

Just make sure you cook it first.

[SilverWolf]

Well geez Boo, I only eat eggs that are unfertilized like normal people.

But now I don't want to, thanks for ruining that for me.

Actually, I have no idea what you are talking about.

ick......................

[SilverWolf]

LOL-I don't want to know if he is or isn't. TMI

*puts hands over eyes, runs from thread*

[SilverWolf]

I'm doing good SW. Getting ready to move. Yea!

So do you think House is scum this game?

Here's something everyone should be aware of. He was town in a game we played (we both were) and used that exact same meta in the next game we played together where he was scum and I was town Mason. He instigated shit with me most of the game and I kept townreading him for it.

So yeah................don't use meta to read him and don't trust him for like a really long time no matter what he says. He's pretty good as scum.

Congrats on the move.

Titus-What's up?

[SilverWolf]

Also, I'M SO HAPPY TO BE IN ANOTHER GAME WITH SILVERWOLF.

<3

[SilverWolf]

Can someone please explain all this SilverWolf love, please? Thanks.

The awesomeness of SilverWolf must be experienced firsthand.

Fortunately, you have this opportunity. Make the most of it.

OMG <3

I really hope yours and Ozgin's love is real and not some scum buddying tactics that you are both are well aware I'm super susceptible too or I'm going to be sooooo disappointed.

[SilverWolf]

Sky's question in 54 was quite frivolous. We haven't even seen House post yet, so making reads like yours in 61 and Varsoons follow-up of that in 62 strikes me a bit weird.

Speaking of your post 61 Cheetory

Why are you saying House is most likely scum, but you immediately place your vote on Skybird?

P-Edit

Ozgin, I'm a male. ._.

My bad history with women is unrelated to your gender, Taly. It's just a contributing factor to my inability to build and trust meaningful relationships with other human.

*Laughs*
*Cries*

Come lay down on the couch and tell me all about it. Then you can explain your objection to the skybird wagon your friend that you want to play with so badly started.

[SilverWolf]

I'm all good with putting some pressure on House.

VOTE: House

I wanna see House post some. He's kinda supposed to be around methinks.
He'll probably make a post that make half the players gain a whiplash.

VOTE: House

VOTE: House
Avatar easy to confuse with mod's.
Also probs scum.

OK so House hasn't even signed on yet since his first confirm post and these are the three votes I like the least on that wagon. I think Skybird did it to take pressure off of her wagon and that can come from either alignment.

Kitz expecting House to be here and saying he should be here is strange but she can be kind of strange. Kind of null on this.

lala-Yeah, jumping on the wagon here seems opportunistic and using and RVS reason to do so is meh, not a big fan.

I like Taly and Ozgin's unvotes here.

VOTE: la la duckie

[SilverWolf]

Dragonspawn, was cheetory scum in the game where he lurked?

I was in this game. It just finished. Yes, he was scum. He lurked through some of it, did some good old AtE, and totally obvtowned at the end of it. Although I might be biased since I was scum in that game as well but he was good. So be wary. He's looking different here than there somewhat though and I'm not overly worried yet.

[SilverWolf]

Yes. It's overly friendly and explanatory for this point in the game. *shrug* Nothing too strong but it doesn't make me feel good.

You've tried this on me before. Going after me for being friendly. I think you are going for the 71 let's push Wolf and see what happens. So I think we might as well get going here before House starts up with me for the same reasons.

Besides your vote for me and the above reasons, you don't seem to have much to say. What do you think about both the Skybird wagon and the House wagon and how they happened. Any of those votes bother you at all yet?

pedit: Cool, Ozgin is towning it up nicely. Good to see.

[SilverWolf]

Have house and kitty been scum buddies before?

Yes, that was the game I was talking about where I townread House for instigating shit with me all game. He, Bookitty, and T S O were scum and kicked ass. Town was dysfunctional as hell though. Still, they are all good as scum.

[SilverWolf]

I do like Skybirds #159.

Why?

[SilverWolf]

How do you know when someone posts in another game (I mean barring the obvious that you are in that game)?

And isn't it against the rules to discuss other ongoing games?

You can go to a person's profile. Go to topics and see where they've posted and when. There is a rule about it. You can say that someone is posting elsewhere but you can't say for example, they are posting long analytical posts elsewhere or anything talking about the game itself. I have it in my IC notes and can go find it if need be.

[SilverWolf]

Imagine you have a baby. That baby

could

grow up to be a terrorist. And

terrorists are dangerous

. By your logic, you'd be inclined to murder your baby because he could become dangerous.

Please stop this Ozgin. I am a mother. Please.

[SilverWolf]

I don't think that, in a game based on language and logic, tearing apart someone's shitty logic is useless, nor is it inflammatory. And frankly, my dear, I couldn't give a damn less if you don't want to play.

This is unusually aggressive for you Ozgin.

I'm going to bed, I'll be back tomorrow.

This game is heating up, and I kinda like it. This is the most excited I've been ever to play a normal game as a citizen.

Are you claiming Citizen already? WTF?

[SilverWolf]

Good lord Ozgin, slow down. You are throwing me for a loop. I need to process. I'm not sure if you are over aggressive town or try hard scum but I haven't seen you like this before.

Relax or something please.

[SilverWolf]

I agree with you Ozgin about the House wagon. I didn't like it. It seemed too easy. How can you pressure someone who isn't even here playing? The he's posting elsewhere is crap if he only posted one post. I also kind of agree with you that Titus seems off. I'm going to have to investigate there some. It's just gut for now but she doesn't usually pull the I don't want to play stuff. I agree with her about your Citizen talk. That should really stop.

[SilverWolf]

Dollars to Donuts the way people are not really engaging Ozgin means he's scum.

Huh? Yes we are. Wat? I seriously feel like he's either town hopped up and excited to play or super try hard scum but as scum in the last game he was pretty mellow. I had a neighborhood with him and he wasn't this hyper. I really don't know what to make of him quite yet.

[SilverWolf]

I agree with you Ozgin about the House wagon. I didn't like it. It seemed too easy. How can you pressure someone who isn't even here playing? The he's posting elsewhere is crap if he only posted one post. I also kind of agree with you that Titus seems off. I'm going to have to investigate there some. It's just gut for now but she doesn't usually pull the I don't want to play stuff. I agree with her about your Citizen talk. That should really stop.

You haven't seen some of the things I have seen. Sometimes they do get under my skin. My husband and I are talking about having kids. Hearing that stuff about killing your kids just absolutely riled me and yes, those types of things make mafia unenjoyable generally. There is a line. I call people out when they cross it. I'm shocked that you think you're the only one who can be bothered by things. Normally, I would take that as a scum indicator but knowing you well enough your game seems to be very Wolf focused as either alignment. (Mine tends to be that way too.)

[non-aligment personal, uncomfortable stuff start] I'm sorry Titus. I have a child and have lost several. It was offensive to me but I should of thought of what you and others might be going through as well. I do tend to be self-centered when I play. I'm also having trouble focusing and keeping up with the pace of this game. I wish you luck in your journey to motherhood. [non-alignment personal, uncomfortable stuff end]

Having said the above, I don't think Oz was trying to upset us mothers or potential mothers.

[SilverWolf]

Dollars to Donuts the way people are not really engaging Ozgin means he's scum.

Huh? Yes we are. Wat? I seriously feel like he's either town hopped up and excited to play or super try hard scum but as scum in the last game he was pretty mellow. I had a neighborhood with him and he wasn't this hyper. I really don't know what to make of him quite yet.

No. You're not engaging him. You're engaging me and talking about Ozgin.

What about 202 or 211? Like I said, I'm having trouble keeping up with him and the game to be quite honest. I'm working on it.

Re-reading, etc.

[SilverWolf]

Dollars to Donuts the way people are not really engaging Ozgin means he's scum.

Huh? Yes we are. Wat? I seriously feel like he's either town hopped up and excited to play or super try hard scum but as scum in the last game he was pretty mellow. I had a neighborhood with him and he wasn't this hyper. I really don't know what to make of him quite yet.

No. You're not engaging him. You're engaging me and talking about Ozgin.

What about 202 or 211? Like I said, I'm having trouble keeping up with him and the game to be quite honest. I'm working on it.

Re-reading, etc.

Those aren't engagement either. Notice how you are just making observations with Ozgin. You're shocked at his claim and stating how you feel. In a vacuum, those are not engagement. Asking questions and giving responses is engagement.

I've engaged Ozgin and will do more. The game is 10 pages in less than 24 hours, I am trying to figure out how to keep up at the same time as get good reads and analysis of the game. Several haven't posted much at all. And yes, I'm engaging you because you said you wanted to. But FFS, give me a minute to catch my breath here.

[SilverWolf]

Titus is giving me really bad vibes right now. I'll explain tomorrow. She's an FoS for sure though.

[SilverWolf]

This whole ozgin push feels completely wrong. Haven't figured out why exactly. But I will.

Do you think he's town here? Who, among the Ozgin pushers don't you like?

[SilverWolf]

Not so sure of that Titus. Wolf has gotten better a hiding her tells

Well, we'll see. I usually get in relatively soon. My way of reading people is usually considered "odd" anyway so, we'll see. Right now, I'm leaning scum due to her hedges and overdefensiveness. Mostly the hedges though.

What hedges are those? I think lala ducks is scummy for fluff posting and "fake" looking bravado about the votes on her. I think you are scummy. I don't get your Ozgin push. I think you are misrepping him and me quite a bit, are over defensive and apologetic yourself, and are using AtE especially on me which is scummy. I'm not a big fan of dragon right now either. I think Ozgin might actually be town here. So about those hedges?

[SilverWolf]

Not so sure of that Titus. Wolf has gotten better a hiding her tells

Well, we'll see. I usually get in relatively soon. My way of reading people is usually considered "odd" anyway so, we'll see. Right now, I'm leaning scum due to her hedges and overdefensiveness. Mostly the hedges though.

What hedges are those? I think lala ducks is scummy for fluff posting and "fake" looking bravado about the votes on her. I think you are scummy. I don't get your Ozgin push. I think you are misrepping him and me quite a bit, are over defensive and apologetic yourself, and are using AtE especially on me which is scummy. I'm not a big fan of dragon right now either. I think Ozgin might actually be town here. So about those hedges?

The very "engaging" posts you quoted. You're leaving yourself open to vote Ozgin or not based on how the wind blew. You liked some things, but disapproved of others and came to no real conclusion.

I was still reading him and trying to figure him out. I think he's town. He's invested in the game and comes off as sincere in his enthusiasm. I don't get your Citizen point despite how many times you explain it. I think that was bad play on his part but why is it scummy?

[SilverWolf]

What town says, oh by the way, I'm not a PR in casual unprovoked conversation if they have experience? Remember the game where I was iceproof townie. I claimed with a reason. The cop just willy nilly claimed to her hood. We all agreed that was bad play and not to be repeated. Any decent IC would have crushed that behavior saying do not claim your role unless necessary. Claiming Citizen here does nothing protown.

OK, he's anti-town I agree. But why would scum do this?

[SilverWolf]

Oh, Wolfie, you find me scummy because of fluff? I'm always ~fluffy~fluffy~ in the beginning

Well, and I don't mind fluff posting in the beginning, I do the same thing. Do you have better reasons for voting for House and Ozgin than you've given so far?

[SilverWolf]

Are you illiterate?

Do not do this Ozgin.

@mod-prod FA please

, he hasn't even confirmed, maybe forgot the game or something

Expect a longer, substantive post from me later today. I'm going to be busy for awhile and not feeling great today but should be able to post something later. Also @me if you have any questions for me so I can see it.

[SilverWolf]

Why in the hell would anyone be afraid of House? Picking on someone not here playing and actively participating is a very easy thing for scum to do to appear busy. It's much harder for them to go after the power players who are posting and playing. Scum should be a lot more afraid of someone like Titus or Cheetory than House right now.

[SilverWolf]

Talk to me about Cheetory please Dragon. Have you played with him before?

If you want good meta on how scum!Cheetory behaves in multiball, Egg too for that matter, this might help. They were the ice team. Cheetory was TAF. I wasn't in this one but observed some due to people I know in it and doing a similar set-up at USMB.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=59777

[SilverWolf]

House.

If there is anyone.

Anyone.

Who should read these 11 pages.

It's you.

If that's the case, then nobody should read those 11 pages.

I love how people always think they made some grand discover at the very beginning of a game (ESPECIALLY LARGES) and rush forward with a mislynch, then completely forget the rampant stupidity of it all D2.

Large early games are complete trash and not worth poring over. There will be sacrificial lambs thrown out with shit rationale and people will follow merrily along because it's the in thing to do.

Stop promoting apathy.

[SilverWolf]

God, I love how much I intimidate people.

You don't intimidate me in the least. Where on Earth did you get that idea? I think your attitude sucks ass because there's a lot of info. in those pages and just because you weren't participating does not mean you should ignore it or tell others it's worthless. That is indeed promoting apathy and a negative atmosphere of "who gives a fuck"

[SilverWolf]

God, I love how much I intimidate people.

You don't intimidate me in the least. Where on Earth did you get that idea? I think your attitude sucks ass because there's a lot of info. in those pages and just because you weren't participating does not mean you should ignore it or tell others it's worthless. That is indeed promoting apathy and a negative atmosphere of "who gives a fuck"

Look at those 11 pages. A wagon on me when I wasn't even participating.

That's not info. It's shit. Period.

Stop being an idiot.

Yeah, and did you look at the votes on your wagon and why or what else happened besides the wagon on you so you can get reads?

Don't call me an idiot please.

[SilverWolf]

There's nothing worth reading. Town is stupid because there's nothing to go on. Scum can hide on it because, HELLO, there's nothing to go on.

Stop acting like one.

Thanks

[SilverWolf]

So far House gives me town vibes. Comes in the game all abrasive and not giving a crap.

Don't fall for that. He pulled that same shit on me as scum and I townread him for it in the last game we played. He can emulate his abrasive town meta as scum. Be very careful here.

[SilverWolf]

So far House gives me town vibes. Comes in the game all abrasive and not giving a crap.

Don't fall for that. He pulled that same shit on me as scum and I townread him for it in the last game we played. He can emulate his abrasive town meta as scum. Be very careful here.

And you say I don't intimidate you.

You don't but I'm not stupid either.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin diverted attention from himself by voting himself and then tried to offer lala for shit reasons.

I wasn't really following NY 180 that closely, but I bet that Ozgin followed the same pattern.

When did Ozgin vote for himself? Ozgin was pretty cautious in NY180. He asked me for a lot of advice in the hood and seemed to feel out the waters quite a bit before voting someone. He sheeped me too some. Here is is very brash and seemingly not afraid of how he looks at all with his play. I also believe he said he would of said the Citizen thing as PR or VT so why do you keep saying it was a VT claim? I do agree it is very odd to call himself a Citizen instead of town if he was town though.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin diverted attention from himself by voting himself and then tried to offer lala for shit reasons.

I wasn't really following NY 180 that closely, but I bet that Ozgin followed the same pattern.

When did Ozgin vote for himself? Ozgin was pretty cautious in NY180. He asked me for a lot of advice in the hood and seemed to feel out the waters quite a bit before voting someone. He sheeped me too some. Here is is very brash and seemingly not afraid of how he looks at all with his play. I also believe he said he would of said the Citizen thing as PR or VT so why do you keep saying it was a VT claim? I do agree it is very odd to call himself a Citizen instead of town if he was town though.

You're comparing apples to oranges with the hood. He had someone he

thought

was town to bounce ideas and see if it was going to be scummy before acting. He doesn't likely have that here most likely. Also, being impulsive and reacting to things is just something that's more personality indicative.

Right but what I'm saying is he doesn't seem to give a shit how he looks here at all. He's also posting in a more stream of conscious style posting which is more likely to come from town IMO. I do agree that Citizen claim is fishy and I don't like some of his aggression but town can be aggressive as well. Your best point on him is the Citizen claim plus this 244.

I will re-read him.

[SilverWolf]

Hey Silver, I looked at some of your posts and your vote is still placed on Lala, what do you think about her recent posts? Her recent posts seem to be better in quality.

Also, are you still thinking Titus is scummy? 401 Feels a little odd with me.

I think she's a little scummy due to the peacemaker stuff she's posting like this 388 but OTOH, her immediate push on me before she went for Ozgin kind of felt town because she knows me and it makes sense she would look at me first. Her Ozgin push is townish. BUT, it could be she thinks he's scum on the other team than she's on or she could be town pushing a scumspect.

I am going to re-read Titus, Ozgin, and La La. Something there needs to be figured out I think.

Stay tuned. If I don't get to this tonight it will be tomorrow. I'm not feel great today.

[SilverWolf]

Stream of consciousness is a personality tell. Hands fucking down. Remember that game where I drew neutral. You didn't find me out because I was posting any less than normal or different. You found me out much because I was overexplaining a neutral as an IC. Stream of consciousness is NOT an alignment tell ever.

He does give a crap how he looks. His actions tell that tale. Voting one player (Varsoon) while devoting wordspace to attacking the other (me) suggests his motivation is to dismantle his wagon NOT actually scumhunt either of us.

Stream of consciousness is much harder to fake as scum over the long haul, IMO. Just reacting to things and blurting out what you are thinking is more town like. Cautious/careful/controlled posting is way scummier because there are less ways for people to read scummy motivation into it.

[SilverWolf]

I didn't roll scum and feel disappointed.

VOTE: Boonskiies

DIE, SCUM

scum tend to announce they are not scum at the beginning.

VOTE: tso

OK, Starting to do some ISO's here and I don't like dragon's at all. His vote for T S O 59 was bad. I've seen tons of people say that as town. The last game we played, Grib did the same thing and he was town. dragon was in that game too His 131 vote for la la wasn't good either or the reasoning behind it.

233 dragon have you figured this out yet? What do you think of the Ozgin push now?

Even though RC has barely posted, I do like his entrance into the game, it seems townish although that is just a gut read here. I don't like dragon's response here 455 seem pretty hostile for no reason. Don't like this either 466.

I don't like my vote on la la anymore because her response to her wagon was to go and look at all the votes on it and analyze them which is a farily townish response. I'd like to see more from her though.

I like the Kitz push but I think people need to follow it up with some votes there. dragon is worse than kitz for me right now however.

I re-read Titus and she seems town. Her Ozgin push feels genuine and I completely understand the Citizen argument and think it's valid. However, it's early in the game and we need to look at other people as well and develop some other reads, get other wagons going, etc.

VOTE: dragonspawn

[SilverWolf]

@Taly, Do you mean 486 because I didn't post 466?

[SilverWolf]

@Wolf, Why are you avoiding the Ozgin wagon? You have acknowledged that the citizen case is good, but you pile on the la la wagon. Then, as la la dies down, you move to another wagon increasing, while stating the reason I am pushing is good.

You state you are voting for Ozgin because he is unnecessarily hostile. Yet what do you call the your child could be evil thing but unnecessarily hostile?

You keep doing this thing where you endorse the Ozgin push but never get on.

Titus-I realize you are in a tunnel and all that but don't misrep me. I voted la la for her bad jump onto the House wagon and I don't even think the Oz wagon was a thing at that time. dragon's ISO looks like scum to me and that's why I'm on dragon. I am townreading you right now almost exlusively due to your Ozgin push because it looks town and your reasons look genunine and make sense. I also like the Kitz push like I said. In a game where 1/3 of the players are scum, I'm going to be looking at several different options for scum. It would be very anti-town to quick lynch Ozgin and not try to get reads on everyone else or get some good wagon info. out there for future VCA. I also gave you several reasons last night where I think Oz could be town and I'd like him to respond to his current wagon so I can see how that goes. Give it time Titus. The day is early.

[SilverWolf]

Guys, I'm sick. So I'm probably going to be out the rest of the day. Will see about getting back to this tomorrow. Just an FYI.

[SilverWolf]

Hey, Still sick. I'm re-reading what I missed. Initial thoughts are Oz and dragon are both scummy and I even have a strong feeling they could be on the same scumteam. The signs are there. I will read and elaborate on everything and explain but I STILL have a mild fever and trying to be coherent in a fast moving, complex game in a feverish state is probably not going to be helpful to the game or my health. I'll put a couple points on what I've observed so far because I'm insane and like to post in mafia games when ill I guess. Can anyone direct me to a support group for this?

dragon-I think your T S O vote is garbage. He's barely posted and if you want to know why he voted for Ozgin, your first thing to do should of been to go @T S O-Hey, Why did you vote for Ozgin?" Instead you immediately throw down a vote on him the minute you start getting pressure. T S O is a very safe vote because he's unlikely to fight back much since he hasn't posted much. I'm completely null on T S O. How you can have him pegged as scum is beyond me but it's a safe vote that won't hurt you much.

Here's my issue with dragon: He's very superficial and shallow in his approach to the game. He asks a few questions here and there and makes a few comments but none of what he does really digs into the meat and potatoes of figuring out the game or who scum is. In other words he appears busy but also safe and that kind of play is scummy to me. Plus, his defense of Ozgin is kind of calculated that reminds me of a how a scummate would do it. And yes, I can elaborate on this when I feel better and point out specific things. Also, the "I always look like scum D1 self meta is like meh"

Ozgin's reaction to his wagon was super, hyper aggressive and defensive. Now, there's town flail and there's scum flail. As town, I get quite upset when I get wagoned for crappy reasons. I also have gotten really fucking frustrated as scum caught out on D1. What I don't like about Ozgin's response is he's not using it to go, "shit, I should give some reads, look at my wagon and convince these guys I'm town" Instead he's yelling at everyone and insulting people. He also pointed out he's frustrated non-scum faction IIRC and that's like "Hey, look at how frustrated town I am folks"

His case on Varsoon was like going through his ISO and painting every fucking thing in it as scum. Well shit, if I wanted to find scum in someone, I could do the same thing because damn if I am looking for it that hard with the mindset of "let's see how I can paint this person as scum" I'm going to find it no matter what the alignment of the person is. That's not the best way to scumhunt IMO. I do need to re-read when feeling better his 1v1 with Varsoon and see if I can make anything of that but later.

I actually feel like RC is town. Sometimes a person doesn't have to post a lot for me to get that feel. It's what they post and how that tells me things. Varsoon comes off as town because his posts look genuine and the least calculated of anyone in the game. He's very invested in the game as well. His switch off Ozgin scum to Ozgin town is not something I'm liking but I need to re-read that 1v1 and not even sure what his latest dragon points about being 95% sure he's scum even mean or if I even want to know tbh. He also strikes me as one of those "never a dull moment if you play with him in a game" types of players. I find his looking for friends to be a null tell. I mean, if he was going to buddy people he can buddy them and be done with it. Blatantly looking for friends sounds like a personality tell more than an alignment tell, IMO.

Other reads: Bookitty seems different from her last scum game to me in a way that looks town, like Egg's posts so far for town, House is weird but I've seen his scum game and he's not really doing that but way too early to say here (he's null), Titus's Ozgin tunnel and moonlogicy logic looks town to me or at least Titus town. I have a scary townread on Cheetory because it came rather quickly and he makes me totally paranoid. I like anen's posts because the points he is making are generally along the lines of what I am thinking as well (nulltown at best because I need to see a lot more). Taly's analysis looks townish to me as well. Kitz is kind of withdrawn and her set up spec is kind of meh and she's not adding much to the game (leaning scum), la la switched up her play and looks better but I need to see more here-scumread not gone but diminished, Skybird makes me wonder as well. She's a pretty passive and very hard to read player from what I remember so not sure but she's not ringing any townbells either. I guess she's posted enough I should have some "feels" by now and don't. boon is typical boon and I misread him routinely so null. No one else has posted nearly enough for me to try to read yet but I'll bet there's scum in the non-participants right now. I think figuring out a couple scumreads and trying to townhunt might be a better approach then trying to read every single player in the game right now the way it's currently going.

OK, question time:

Egg-You pointed out you didn't like how you think I'm avoiding the Oz wagon. Why is that a problem on me specifically but not on Bookitty or Taly or anyone else who is not voting Oz but has expressed suspicion of him?

Ozgin-Hi, Do you have any reads on anyone else besides Varsoon? What do you think of the people on your wagon?

boon-What specifically do you dislike about dragon's wagon and how do you come to this conclusion so quickly when as you say, you've barely had time to post? Who's the scum on his wagon?

Cheet-Oz was different in the hood in 180, more mellow and relaxed, I don't think I can use this to read him here because I was a scumbucket in that game who thought Oz might be a fellow scumbucket so that colored my view of him there. What is your current read on Ozgin?

Hell, I'm sure I have more questions and observations but this much took a lot out of me so I'll be back later.

[SilverWolf]

Yes I'm going to figure out the game in 26 pages.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. But no one is that good.

dragon-no one is asking you to solve the game in 26 pages but you should have some concrete thoughts you can share by now, there's been a ton of content, your reads don't have to be set in stone this early but you should have some idea of what you think of a few of the more active players

What is your read on Titus right now or Cheetory for example?

Egg-I'll give you more detail on Bookitty later, don't let me forget. Yeah, I see your issues with Taly's off Ozgin wagon posts but you had pointed out mine a couple times as well and I was more curious what you are looking for specifically when someone is suspicious of a person and not on a wagon yet

I guess I feel I can't be on more than one wagon at a time but I should be able to express suspicion of more than one person at a time and dragon's such scum it hurts me right now, like for real. But it would not upset me much if Oz ended up being the lynch instead. Both flips are liable to be scum and both flips are going to be very informative.

[SilverWolf]

dragon-no one is asking you to solve the game in 26 pages but you should have some concrete thoughts you can share by now, there's been a ton of content, your reads don't have to be set in stone this early but you should have some idea of what you think of a few of the more active players

What is your read on Titus right now or Cheetory for example?

K, after reading 634 these questions are no longer valid.

How about this? Elaborate please on what you think is going on between Cheetory and Varsoon.

How can boon be the towniest town there is right now? Like what? Explain.

[SilverWolf]

Varsoon-How can you go from Ozgin in scum, let's lynch him, go go go to now he's part of your townbloc? I don't get that progression there and I'd like you to elaborate on this please.

[SilverWolf]

What the ever loving fuck did I just read?

[SilverWolf]

After re-reading a few things, I'm having my doubts that dragon is a good vote. I'm not doubting my Ozgin scumread though. He's still scum.

VOTE: Ozgin

[SilverWolf]

@boon-wagon analysis is not the same in a multiball set-up as it otherwise, there is likely to be scum on any large wagon that forms, the person could be either scum or town that is being wagoned, I doubt a lynch will happen early game without scum influence

@Egg-regarding your question on my bookitty read, there were a couple posts that kind of pinged town and seemed different enough from her scumgame but after re-reading there really isn't enough for that to be a strong townread, it's weak and kind of gut/meta at this point and I need to hear a lot more from her before I can solidify it

@Titus-why is boon added to the will lynch pile again?

@Varsoon-Yes, I had a theory they were on the same team, but associative tells without a scum flip seems kind of pointless and that theory is out the window right now

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf, weren't we talking about Bookitty's Ozgin stance?

Maybe? LOL

I checked the post again and thought you were responding to the first part but really it must be the second.

Other reads: Bookitty seems different from her last scum game to me in a way that looks town

Egg-You pointed out you didn't like how you think I'm avoiding the Oz wagon. Why is that a problem on me specifically but not on Bookitty or Taly or anyone else who is not voting Oz but has expressed suspicion of him?

Silverwolf, can you show me what you mean as far as Bookitty?

You already addressed Taly but here's what I was talking about with Bookitty.

With two scum teams in play and a suspected SK, I could easily see Ozgin as scum trying to ensure that everyone knows he's a CITIZEN and not a Scummity-Scum-SCUM. It's odd. I don't get it.

But she voted dragonspawn.

Anyway, Ozgin read this post for my read on you 643

Also people, if you re-read boon again, you will see that dragon is not a good vote. I'd recommend you do that.

[SilverWolf]

Lyncher, Jester, etc. are not normal.

[SilverWolf]

@House-If there was a JOAT here, they would not be stupid enough to cc you right now. Your claim makes no sense as either alignment.

@Taly-Your wishy-washiness and fencesitting on the wagons is starting to bug me. Please do something to rectify that. I want to know what YOU think. It's o.k. to ask others why they find someone scummy or townie but I want your opinions on dragon or Ozgin or anyone else you want to vote for. It would go a long way to helping me read you better.

[SilverWolf]

I could try and articulate it more clearly and go through individual posts that I feel best describe this feeling that I'm getting if you want to talk with me about it?

What do you think of my points against him in 643? I realize that post is super fucking long but my Oz points are in there.

I'd also like Oz to address those points as well.

[SilverWolf]

Someone talk at me about if Sky's tone is usually like this as either alignment.

Yes-I haven't played with her on this site yet but offsite, from what I remember, she's notoriously difficult to read.

[SilverWolf]

@Ozgin

Ozgin-Hi, Do you have any reads on anyone else besides Varsoon? What do you think of the people on your wagon?

[SilverWolf]

No. I am not. I did not consider you in that category. You are ETL this game.

What does this mean?

[SilverWolf]

I've given some concrete thoughts so far. I've been clear that I'm leaning town on ozgin so much so that people are speculating that we are scum buddies. I've been clear that I think houses game is off. I've been clear that boon is town. I'm thinking Titus is probably town.

Not sure about cheery. Maybe I'm.being overly cautious since he just murdered me in 180 and tricks the town into a win but I'm thinking he is town too.

Been clear that duck is a scum suspect.

Not sure about tso. Voting for him because I didn't like his vote and felt he ended some pressure.

Did I miss any of your questions for me wolf?

Btw I'm leaning town for you too

Do you still think there is something going on between Cheetory and Varsoon? 634 What did you mean by this? I'm guessing you don't think they are scum together because you are leaning town on Cheet.

Also, you mentioned that you had a problem with the Ozgin push 233, you are defending him pretty hard. Can you tell me what you don't like about the push and why, specifically you think he's likely to be town?

[SilverWolf]

#Prolapse :
Lack of constructive posts, posts little, read list without basis.
Mentions that "Everyone else is not memoriable", odd. What makes one memoriable and what makes one not?
Reading the ISO, I'm more and more scumleaning on Prolapse.

I'm going to give a few townpoints here to Kitz because after ISOing Prolapse-I agree with her points so good on her for pointing this out.

By the way, Egg has just moved among my townreads with this post. I don't think scum-Egg would interrogate a player like me. I'll post more about this if needed.

I'd like you to elaborate on this please. I would like to understand your thought process better on your reads.

That being said, if Titus were scum I could see her pushing my lynch because she assumes I'm a Citizen, and that way her pool of people to kill to potentially hit enemy scum/town prs is narrowed down, while she gets me (a town) out of the way in a lynch.

I would think if she's scum, she would't go after you if she thinks you are a VT. WIFOM I know but her Citizen point is actually one reason I'm townreading her plus her tunnel on you is so town Titus like. I've seen her scum tunnels. They make zero sense and she often has crazy theories like when she tunnelled me as scum (I was town) she wanted to group up with me and others to lynch a person at one point and another time she tried to bargain with House to lynch me and then kill another player he wanted lynched she wasn't even scumreading. Here her push is very focused and in a way that I get. I'm not sure if I should be getting Titus logic and townreading her for that but she's not pulling this crazy scum shit she has before and her town tunnels are just like this.

We're lynching Bookitty or House today. I don't believe anyone else should be lynched. House and Bookitty both were on the list of me saying I believe one of them to be scum. And Dragon isn't scum. you can do it, by the way.

The only think I've seen you say about them is that they were both on dragon's wagon and they've worked together as scum before. How on Earth is that early, non-productive wagon analysis enough to call them scum. You should really elaborate and explain why you think each of them are scum if you want to convince me, or anyone, to switch.

pedit: LOL at anen's massive pigeon poop gif and hilarious reads list. I forgot how fun he can be in games. <3

[SilverWolf]

Reads:

Spoiler:

Reads:

-getting town vibes off anen's latests posts and explanations-they make sense, I like them, I can see the logic

-dragon and boon are town so let's move on from this

-Taly: Went from town to null because of the wishy-washy, fence-sittingness of her votes

-Kitz: Moved from scum to null for her good Prolapsed Brain point and her genuine frustration with the push on her 14:3:3:1 question

-Egg: town for his line of questioning which looks more like he's trying to figure everyone out and get reads

-Varsoon: moved to kind of weak nulltown now because I liked some of his posts for looking genuine and how involved he's been in the game but he's too focused on dragon lynch and things like House claim, who's in what neighborhoud and masonry stuff we shouldn't be caring about right now

-Skybird: Leaning scum here, her posts are too superficial and don't seem to lead anywhere, she promised reads and never delivered

-Prolapsed looks like scum due to Kitz's points

-Cheetory: looks town to me

-Ozgin: scum for reasons I've explained but willing to interact with him more

-boo, RC-very light townreads

-drixx, TSO, Aero, FA-null as null can be-would absolutely love to see them post a lot more

-House: bad claim plus dragon tunnel and not much else-while I don't like him, I don't see scum pulling the JOAT gambit really

-la la: leaning scum due to fading away after defending herself from initial wagon and the pressure easing

pedit: I recommend those in neighbourhoods scumhunt within your hoods and if anything is fishy, bring it out-otherwise all this talk is, is speculation at this point and not much else-as far as outing them, I see no problem with it but maybe check with those in it to see if they want to?

Also: anen, I think I've seen enough pigeon poop gifs until tomorrow at the earliest

[SilverWolf]

@Silverwolf - How can I interact with you to change your mind?

You are still voting Varsoon. Do you think he's scum even though earlier you seem to be letting up on that idea?

What are your reads on some of the other players?

[SilverWolf]

That's what I get for playing distracted with a billion things and trying to keep track of a large fast moving game at the same time. I need to take notes or something.

So you think dragon is scum because of House's claim and push then? Anything else?

And you say TSO is strange-is this scummy or? You mention anen not liking your reactions? How are you reading him?

You mention Bookitty, Varsoon, Titus. Anyone else?

I swear, if I missed your answers to these questions, I'm giving up and going to bed. LOL

[SilverWolf]

I've played a wake game where three scum were in a four person hood. Wolf was the only townie.

Yeah, 2 ice scum, 1 fire scum, and me-a VT. I can't even believe my luck with that one.

IIRC, 2 of those were all town and one other had one scum and there was that large neighborizer hood. The other game Wake used hoods, I think there was an all town one and the rest had scum but don't ask me to remember that for sure cuz too long ago.

So the best thing to do is just scumhunt in the hoods and don't say anything in them you don't want scum to hear.

I don't see a downside outing the hoods here. The more information shared the better I guess.

[SilverWolf]

Central Hood:

Wake

, Dragonspawn, Bookitty, Kitz, Egg
House

Bastion Hood:
Varsoon, Cheetory, Drixx, TSO

LOL-People are always getting those two confused.

[SilverWolf]

Titus-your link doesn't work but I believe the claim. I seriously thought they were softing masons. Wake did have a thread where he was asking about the best friends mechanic and mentioning wanting to use it in his games. I swear they said it wasn't normal though but maybe it fits those unique roles. I know Wake wanted to use it.

But seriously, how dense can people be when they've been practically shouting they know each other are town from the rooftops?

Geez people...............................

[SilverWolf]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6733108

[SilverWolf]

RC-What makes you so certain they are scum?

[SilverWolf]

Or maybe someone wants to gambit a fakeguilty on someone.

Noooooooo................................................

[SilverWolf]

Because it's not fake.

I'm one shot dayvig and I shot Dragon.

Still pretty damn sure he's scum.

Is this for real?

[SilverWolf]

Why do I even play mafia.

Drinking game. Anytime someone does something stupid. Drink.

Good thing that wasn't a rule in 180 or I would of gotten liver poisoning or something.....................

[SilverWolf]

So, like I'm just going to save this post and recycle it cuz I have a feeling I'll be needing it a few times.

What the ever loving fuck did I just read?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's not copyrighted. You guys can steal it any time you want.

You're welcome.

[SilverWolf]

-House: bad claim plus dragon tunnel and not much else-while

I don't like him

, I don't see scum pulling the JOAT gambit really

That hurt.

Awwwww.........................<3

[SilverWolf]

In Aero's game, I was town mason and totally flipped out when my mason partner was being wagoned by T S O, Psyche, and House. Just so happens that T S O and House were scum. T S O was all like, Kop must hang, kop must die, Aero-feel free to modkill kop and save us all the trouble. I was saying he's town, tell them to back off, etc. And Psyche, who has claimed masons as scum before made sure I was fully outed because he didn't believe me-he was town.

If it isn't obvious enough by this story, town lost that game.

[SilverWolf]

This leaves Bookitty. ^ Bookitty is today's lynch.

Why is she scum? I've asked you before so I'm asking again. I don't want to lynch a person off PoE from one single hood. I need a better reason. Give me one or I won't be inclined to switch to Boo. You are town so give me a reason to go with your scumread.

[SilverWolf]

lala-Why is Boo scum to you?

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin, I think my scumread on you for your reactions to your wagon are not enough of a reason to call you scum and neither is your Citizen claim. It doesn't mean you are town but I need more time to sort you out. Your reactions could totally be personality based and you calling scumreads on you legitimate doesn't seem like something smart to say as scum.

I'm good with a Prolapsed vote right now.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

[SilverWolf]

I am tentatively placing Drixx as town. In his spot, I would be annoyed as well if the hood was outed.

You don't think scum would be annoyed by that? I know I was super annoyed at dragon last game for outing my hood with Ozgin.

I'm good with a Prolapsed vote right now.
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

That's a good vote. I'm willing to join that wagon too but I want to see your opinion about Lala's answer I quoted above. Refute me if it wasn't a slip.

I don't think it's the smoking gun you are making it out to be and I don't like scumhunting that way tbh. As far as other points on her, her posting seems pretty awkward and all over the place and very, very nervous. Her reads are off too. But I'd like to see more from her and at least she's giving reads. What has Prolapsed done this game? Did you look at his ISO?

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin was not even in Delicious for that long. He was gone for long periods of time and replaced out. That is not a good representation of Ozgin's meta of using Citizen or not.

[SilverWolf]

He used town a lot. Look at his ISO, SilverWolf.

Hmmmm, I just checked and you make a good point. I'd think scum is more likely to check out the sample PM closely than town would.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Is Aero being replaced?

[SilverWolf]

How come no one has really addressed why we should vote pb over some others I asked a while ago?

He's lurky, trolling, and playing like he has as scum as Cheetory pointed out who has seen his scum game. He hasn't voted, contributed anything, and is insulting people and concentrating on unimportant details when he has posted.

Is this enough for you or?

[SilverWolf]

I addressed why I don't believe that citizen is a dialect thing and I've asked Ozgin for an example from EpicMafia. No answer yet. I'm thinking I'll sign up anyway and search for myself.

I think this needs to be done because I think it just clicked in my head yesterday why the Citizen point is a good one-took me awhile to connect the dots. I can explain later but RL issues are going to be taking priority for awhile. Can't be helped.

Also, Ozgin-Are you a member at that place you told me about-elements the game and do you play over there? I can check that and see if they use Citizen.

Anyway-

V/LA until 5/23

-RL issues that I need to deal with, I should still be able to check in but it won't be nearly as frequent

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Please take note of my V/LA until the 23rd.

I'm going to come back later and read and post because otherwise I'm going to get way too far behind with the speed of this game right now. I won't be able to do much for awhile but I'll see about putting in an hour's worth or so later today or this evening.

[SilverWolf]

@lala-Please explain why you are voting for Prolapsed and say he's probs scum but he's not in any of your scumreads in your latest reads list.

[SilverWolf]

@Titus-Does it bother you at all that la la is voting Prolapsed and doesn't have him in her list of scum reads? Because if it doesn't, it should.

[SilverWolf]

Can someone tell me how many votes duckie has? I'm too lazy and V/LAy to check.

TIA

[SilverWolf]

Titus-I think la la is likely to be scum and Ozgin is VT/Citizen like he claims.

Tell me why I'm wrong. You don't have to go into detail. Just the basics are enough.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Please prod T S O.

Thanks!!

[SilverWolf]

What kind of logic is that?
I think scum would -want- to lynch scum to earn townpoints for it and then during night they'd want to direct double-kills on town PRs.
Ideally. Right?

In singleball, yes. In multiball no. Crosslynching and killing reduces KPN.

What does KPN even stand for?

la la has been giving me scumvibes since I first voted her, I gave her a chance and she hasn't gotten any better

Ozgin seems kind of genuine in his frustration but you are right about his reads being "if you suspect me, you are scum" but la la's doing the same shit. You know that right?

[SilverWolf]

House-I don't like how you've barely participated and are suddenly going to rush in here to push everyone off lala. I'm going to meta her, and see if you are being honest about how she plays.

[SilverWolf]

House-I don't like how you've barely participated and are suddenly going to rush in here to push everyone off lala. I'm going to meta her, and see if you are being honest about how she plays.

Right Wolf, because when I'm scum, I'm just THAT DAMNED OBVIOUS about it.

Totally makes sense.

Where did I say you are scum? Anyone working this hard to save someone raises all kinds of alarms to me for various reasons. Let me point out a few things to you.

You do know that scum will be on her wagon if it gets large enough whether she's town or scum right?

You do know she could be scum that you are protecting and if so, letting her live overnight could be a mistake right?

You do know if there's a JOAT here, they'd be idiotic to cc you right now and SHOULD NOT right? So stop suggesting it at all.

I will be doing a meta dive on duckie. I'm still V/LA today but I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the link, but given your defense of her, I'll be including all her games. I also don't like Titus' defense of her either. Why are either of you working so hard to save her? I can see both town and scum pulling this for a variety of reasons. I don't think either of you are scum but I don't like it regardless.

[SilverWolf]

House, your strong-arm play puts a really sour taste in my mouth, but you'll also very likely be sorted out overnight.
What I'm not sure of is why you're wagoning Ozgin.
I'd like you to elaborate on that.

That's an easy one.

I'm sheeping Titus because I'm completely disinterested in d1 of larges.

The only reason I care about the ducky wagon is because I hate seeing those I consider a friend get lynched over idiotic excuses.

And frankly, I don't give a damn what my play leaves in your mouth.

This right here makes me want to lynch la la. You are not this bad House. You don't give a shit about your friends in games being wagoned and lynched and that's a terrible reason not to want to lynch a person. You want to give her another day and then what? Say she's scum. You just gave her a night to pull her scum shit. That's just plain stupid.

You claim to be completely disinterested in larges and sheeping Titus because you don't care about this game but here you are so certain that la la is town that you want to give her a pass because she's your friend.

la la has been making excuses and throwing a pity party for herself all game, she's been doing the "you are suspicious of me and must be scum because scum always try to mislynch me due to my shitty play", "I know I'm bad, I deserve to be lynched, blah blah blah" AtE. She voted Prolapsed for absolutely no reason and then didn't even include him in her top 6 scum reads. She defended Ozgin and said she sorted him as town and doesn't want him lynched but didn't put him in her top 6 town reads. She OMGUS'd anen and FA for pushing her.

You know what? Being on V/LA, I don't have time for this shit.

VOTE: la la duckie

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

[SilverWolf]

You guys do realize that this all boils down to what Ozgin was thinking when he said Citizen right?

Then guessing if he was scum faking a townslip or Citizen slipping his role right?

I really don't know how we are going to resolve which one he did.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, Bookitty is pretty convincing here. I think her argument holds merit. I am going to re-ISO Ozgin around the part where he claimed later today when I have time and make my final decision on him later today or tomorrow.

I would also like a vc before doing anything.

[SilverWolf]

Do you guys want more discussion and a chance for Oz to speak again before the day ends?

[SilverWolf]

I have no objections to the hammer.

[SilverWolf]

Why am I not surprised?

[SilverWolf]

I hate the new site meta that means L-2 is the new L-1.

[SilverWolf]

You might still have time to finish Prolapsed because Wake I think is working today and won't be around until later.

[SilverWolf]

House, is there one game you have played ever where you don't fakeclaim some shit as town or scum?

[SilverWolf]

Okay, let's make it short.
Lynch everyone on Day1 except for Boonskiies and Dragonspawn!

Game won.

Hey, Just have boon hammer all the L-1's.

It's a win-win for all.

[SilverWolf]

Troll post incoming:

[SilverWolf]

Anen, You can be the pack mascot.

[SilverWolf]

OMG, Can't stop laughing...................................

[SilverWolf]

Shit, I took page top with that BS. LOL

[SilverWolf]

This is nothing. D1 of 180 was 75 pages.

[SilverWolf]

Varsoon ISO:

Spoiler:

303, 327 hard buddying of bookitty suggests they could be together because Bookitty likes to work with her partners as I saw first hand in Delicious

333 soft question of lala means they could be on the same team but his constantly being on and off her wagon all day means I really don't think they are scum together because I don't see scum bussing/distancing D1 in a multiball situation

364 and several posts following plus numerous others suggest he's not scum with House, plus House claimed JOAT and would not do that with Varsoon as a partner

626 defends Taly-could do this on the same team, defending your scumbuddies is not unreasonable to expect in this set-up

637 makes me think he's not scum with T S O, la la, or Titus-there are numerous posts that make me think he's not scum with Titus

669 praises Cheetory, suggests Kitz might have townslipped with the 14:3:3:1 stuff, don't think he's scum with Prolapsed due to attack about twilight stuff and vote for him in 918

1095 makes me feel like he might be with Bookitty

1102 wants to pressure ProlapsedBrian, Laladucks, TSO, Drixx, Kitz but does he ever pressure TSO, drixx, or Kitz-nope

1232 in response to Egg's 1203 plus 1238 makes me think they are likely not together

Possible people with Varsoon and strongest associations per Varsoon ISO: Bookitty, Taly, Kitz-I am going to look at the votes on the wagon next from these 3 in particular but I think one of these 3 need to be looked at as possible scum

My next posts are going to look at their votes on the Ozgin wagon and individual ISO's of all 3 of them.

Then I'll vote for one of them based on that. This, IMO is the best way to catch scum right now with a scum flip to analyze.

Might not get to all that until tomorrow because I'm really fucking tired and am going to be with family a good part of the day tomorrow so we'll see.

[SilverWolf]

The "No." was because you're wrong about me being scum and me being a fantastic vote.

Way to crush his case on you!!

[SilverWolf]

Boon doesn't seem to ever give good cases or any cases. WTF is up with that boonie?

I like to have reasons. Good ones. Not she's scum lulz, is it L-1 yet?, I'm BFF's with dragon you know, Ha!!

Still love ya boon <3

[SilverWolf]

Surprised it's taken so long for someone to question me on me.

Do you guys want more discussion and a chance for Oz to speak again before the day ends?

I have no objections to the hammer.

These two posts pinged me hard at the end of the day. This is not town wolf. Town wolf careful about lynching. She doesn't rush them. And she wouldn't be asking whether we should let him speak.again, she would.be insisting he claim before we hammer.

But she isn't. She is almost eager for the Hammer. Even odder considering she wasn't scum reading ozgin at the time.

And now she completely ignores my vote with her while posting an in-depth analysis of varsoon. Yeah this isnt feeling right at all.

I saw your vote but you gave zero reasons for it. I'm not exactly sure what you wanted me to respond to but I figured I'd ask you about it when you are online today. You took those quotes of mine out of context dragon and jumped to conclusions without even asking me about them.

No, I wasn't scumreading Ozgin, nor was I voting for him but I was starting to waver on him some at the end there. I was the one asking how many votes he had and wanted to see where he was at and that's when someone posted he was at L-1. My first comment was asking how we should handle the L-1. He had already claimed and given his reads. His lynch was inevitable but the votes were piling up on him pretty quick at the end there I didn't want someone coming in and willy-nilly throwing another vote down without discussion. I said I was o.k. with the hammer after you had already declared intent to hammer dragon and said you were going to wait until Ozgin spoke and you got off work. I was not expecting Boon to hammer there. That comment was in response to this from Skybird:

I've been following the thread and I have no problem with an Ozgin lynch.

And shortly after T S O posted this:

I'm here, and I have no objections to the hammer. It's a scum lynch.

If you have a problem with my comments dragon, what about these and why didn't you ask me about my comments and what I meant by them before voting for me?

Of course I'm going to analyze Varsoon. It's a scum flip. I would still appreciate feedback on that from someone please.

Kitz vote sheeping you seemed opportunistic and I don't really like lala's saying she's suspicious of me but not voting either.

[SilverWolf]

Titus' tunneling, asking House to sheep and House not even agreeing to the SW thing in neighbour because it's "futile to read her"...
I dunno. I'd like to take a closer look on House after SW and then Titus. House seems oddly protective on SW.

This is actually quite odd coming from House. He usually goes after me hard in games until he figures out my alignment. I have absolutely no idea what Titus's tunneling has to do with me though.

Care to elaborate on this? I'm not in your hood so this is news to me.

[SilverWolf]

You're previous post suggests otherwise.

it was just that
Day 1 no one else really seemed to get very strong scum vibes from SW

Is this just gut or do you have some other reasons for this? Why do you need other people to agree with you to make a case or vote?

[SilverWolf]

Also FA is good lead for Varsoonmate.
Lots of crappy soft interactions.
No actual read thrown at each other.
Gogogogo.

Can you elaborate on this please? Give some examples maybe? I didn't see anything in Varsoon's ISO that would suggest this but I'm assuming you saw something I missed?

[SilverWolf]

Titus, now that I'm a little more awake I noticed what you were talking about. My "that" to Cheet wasn't Varsoon wanting you dead. It was Varsoon wanting to fakeclaim masons with Cheet. It makes no sense from town.

Lala, it's more that JEEP's tells became outdated as the game evolved. Gloating is probably the one that stayed the most valid though. You could also be accused of "congratulating the doc".

Metal Sonic faked masons with me before as town.

Didn't Psyche fake masons with a townie as scum in Wake's last large normal? Why does anyone ever think this is a good idea? One flip from the other person would bring you down as well. I do agree, that Varsoon saying that in the hood is super, super scummy though.

@SW, I was looking in FA's ISO.

Post numbers you can direct me too?

[SilverWolf]

If you are town, why wouldn't you believe it Kitz?

Are you all guys missing the freaking point? Seriously.

My guess is you didn't believe the claim from House more than you didn't believe the result on you.

It does seem weird to question an innocent on yourself at all for any reason though if you are town.

[SilverWolf]

Also sorry SW I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not really in the mood to throw effort at this at the moment.
Promise I'll pull specifics by tonight.

I'm going to be busy all day with family stuff so there is no hurry here. FA hasn't made much of an impression on me yet so I'd like to see what you are thinking here.

[SilverWolf]

@lala-do you have a scum game on this site yet?

[SilverWolf]

Kitz-instead of getting defensive, check the wiki:

A Daycop investigates players during the Day instead of the Night. Depending on the format of the game, they may receive their results immediately or at the end of the Day.

That said, people fake daycop results in games all the time, kind of like faking dayvig so I'm meh on this being a smoking gun on you.

[SilverWolf]

Kitz if you look at what House quoted, it was my 1797.

I asked to to elaborate on this and you ignored me.

[SilverWolf]

In the neighborhood, I said it's almost as futile for me to read you as it is for you to read me.

There was no "protective" bullshit that Kitz is spewing. She's being lying scum.

Who else is in your hood again? If they can confirm Kitz is lying, then I'm fine voting for her. Fabricating reads is scummy as shit.

[SilverWolf]

Kitz if you look at what House quoted, it was my 1797.

This is actually quite odd coming from House. He usually goes after me hard in games until he figures out my alignment. I have absolutely no idea what Titus's tunneling has to do with me though.

Care to elaborate on this? I'm not in your hood so this is news to me.

Basically, there's something odd you did, then House was asked about it, and he refused to comment on it other than saying it was futile to read you.
It was quite odd to me that he didn't even comment on it.

So basically, I see a chain. Titus tunnels me, asks House to sheep on me in which he does, and House being "defensive" on you by not saying anything, may it be positive or negative.

That's what I ment, if you misunderstood.

So you are connecting myself, House, and Titus based on that? That's really reachy Kitz. Really, really reachy.

I would like the rest of your hood to weigh in and see if they can back you up on this.

And why in the hell doesn't anybody ask me a damn thing instead of just taking quotes out of context and assuming shit? I really, really hate when people do that.

Fucking ask me about this stuff. That's how you read people. You fucking question them. You don't just take their quotes, string them together, and then assume shit. You don't take things said in a hood that I'm not in and wasn't involved in and connect me with people based on their comments with really, really poor logic and bad reasoning.

That is ultra annoying and very, very scummy. Seriously.

I'm out until tonight. Family engagement all day.

See ya later.

[SilverWolf]

Kitz-I explained those comments and why I said what I did. You and dragon misrepped me badly. ISO me and go find my response.

[SilverWolf]

I didn't see anything protecting wolf is houses comments.

Well, this is interesting.

Bookitty, Egg-can you verify that House wasn't trying to protect me?

[SilverWolf]

House, Kitz is scum. I agree. So is RC.

@Titus-Please explain your RadiantCowbells scumread.

[SilverWolf]

Titus-Stop posting and take a break. Don't crab at me.

/Wolfie out

[SilverWolf]

Titus's push on me in particular is striking me as odd.

That's a slot I'd be willing to lynch.

I will join you on that. Something is really weird on her slot. Like wtf.

I agree. She's off. But I'm not sure why. She's really pinging hard though which is why I asked her to elaborate on her reads. I'll have to look into this later. I don't have time right now.

[SilverWolf]

Titus used the term blue in 1804 and RC used it again right after that in 1805

Titus-Why is it o.k. for you to use blue but not RC?

Hmm, whaddya think that scum tried to kill me last night, hence why they all feel I'm off but cannot articulate why...

ewwwww.....................................gross

[SilverWolf]

Currently checking to see if blue was used at all before Titus said it.

brb

[SilverWolf]

Just fucking lynch me. I don't care anymore.

I always get run up as town. I'd rather claim and get it over with.

Oh dear..................................

[SilverWolf]

Is anyone voting for you yet? And you want to claim already?

Dragon, that's how this shit starts every time.
I'm town but people FoS me for no reason. So I highlight this. People say that's scummy or that I'm detracting from the lynch. So I don't really want to claim, but if people are going to vote me, just fucking do it so we can get it out of the way.

What ever the fuck? Were you getting run up and I missed it? Why the talk of claiming right now? This just looks like AtE to me Titus.

[SilverWolf]

Why didn't you ever say it was me that used it first? You were never motivated to check at all.

I didn't think I said that. :S My autocorrect has been fucking up all over the site. I missed one.

Your autocorrect did this? How?

SK and Blue both kill Varsoon

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Titus

If you need reasons I can give them but you are pretty obvious scum Titus.

[SilverWolf]

Is that a confession then Titus?

[SilverWolf]

No way are you town Titus.

[SilverWolf]

I owe you the courtesy of a case so here it is:

-Your push on Ozgin was bad

-You have been pinging hard all day

-Your push on Kitz and RC were very weak and you bit my head off when I asked you to elaborate

-You posted posts that just reek of self-preservation to an unusual degree

-It was pointed out you posted blue first even though you tried to push that on RC and your reaction to it was over the top AtE and excuses that don't make sense

-No you are self-voting and giving up

[SilverWolf]

Titus-even if you claim something, I'm not sure I'd believe it at this point.

I've never seen town Titus behave like this.

[SilverWolf]

Titus-Your AtE is pretty blatant and you completely over-reacted when it was found out YOU said blue first. I don't see how autocorrect could of done that. What were you trying to say instead? Your reaction to being called on that was massive AtE and self voting. If it was a simple mistake, you would not have acted that way. You tried to push that shitty logic on RC and you went after Kitz for reacting skeptically to House's claim. You are ultra paranoid about night actions and other things town should not be concerned about and acting in a self-preservationist way.

Do you need more reasons? I could probably ISO you and find them. But really? You are scum. Period.

[SilverWolf]

Titus-You are caught scum.

It was not autocorrect and you know it.

I am not moving my vote off you.

Good night.

[SilverWolf]

It was not autocorrect. Titus flipped out over it when it was brought to her attention. She's displayed massive AtE and town Titus never self-votes. She would not have reacted that way to a simple mistake.

She's scum. No doubt about it.

[SilverWolf]

I just counted and she is at L-2

Titus: RadiantCowbells, Silverwolf, Titus,

lalaladucks

, Aneninen, dragonspawn, Taly, Kitz, drixx

10 needed to lynch

[SilverWolf]

I would like some more time given to the day today rather than quicklynching lala while she's on V/LA. I feel like yesterday went kind of quick with the Titus drama and I'd like more time to ISO people and do some re-reading and try to figure a few things out. I'd like to ISO TSO and anen as well.

House and Silver are giving me some weird vibes with their interactions.

Anenien also had some interactions with Silver and House.

In any case these names are catching my attention quite a bit:

Kitz

,

House

,

Silverwolf

and

lalaladucks

**I also find in interesting that Silver was on the Lalaladucks wagon in D1. 1701 >>> Gives me some confidence in these reads.

Elaborate on all of this.

-What weird vibes are you getting from House and myself? You and Kitz have both thrown shade at me over this so I would like this explained.

-Why is Kitz on your name of people who is catching your attention?

-What interactions between myself and anen and House in particular are of importance to you? Start with me. Then House.

-Why is my vote for lala D1 important?

[SilverWolf]

wolf, while I don't see any reason you shouldn't have time to go through isos it seems a bit off to me that you ask for time today after we questioned you yesterday about rushing ozgins lynch. I find myself wanting to lean town on you but something's holding me back.

I don't really give a shit since your points against me on Ozgin were complete misrep and taking quotes out of context. Boon says he wants to lynch la la before she gets back from V/LA. I want more time since yesterday went quick. It has zilch to do with Ozgin. Stop being so damn reachy in your suspicions.

[SilverWolf]

Boon-I honestly can't understand your not wanting to have more discussion today.

What are you going to do if lala flips town?

What information are you going to have to use to scumhunt with if we quicklynch lala today?

I seriously do not understand your mindset.

@House-you need to explain yourself and engage in the game. What did you mean when you said will you pricks stop roleblocking me because it looks like you are saying you were roleblocked more than once. That's pretty much impossible if you commuted N1.

How about you play the game.

How much have we heard from delta so far? Has anyone got a read on him? I'm not blaming him since he replaced into a large game but does anyone want the guy to get a chance to speak?

No one commented on my Varsoon associations. I mean seriously, people.

I am wondering if most of the issues with lala is personality more than anything. I mean everyone thought she was connected to Titus. Titus flipped SK so obviously isn't connected to lala.

la la could be scum, but how about someone lay out some real points on her outside of her anti-town play, she's looking more like a PL than anything to me

I'm not going to be able to really play this game if all we do is rush everything all the time.

[SilverWolf]

oh come onn

Shhhh...............................bah posts are not allowed.

[SilverWolf]

@Taly-The reason I am forcing you to explain yourself is because I feel like you are being reachy and I've gotten that vibe from many of your posts this game. Associations without a flip are worthless as well.

You never explained what interactions between myself and anen concerned you. And why are my interactions with House weird? I dare you to find a game we have played in together where we don't bicker with each other. But what does that tell you exactly?

[SilverWolf]

House-is it at all possible for you to address questions without insinuating I'm dense or an idiot?

[SilverWolf]

House-is it at all possible for you to address questions without insinuating I'm dense or an idiot?

Is it at all possible for you to not swallow the flimsiest assertions against me without thinking them through first?

Why do you think I asked you to elaborate?

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, I don't think you're dense at all.

In fact, I'd say you're at least 99.999% empty space.

Fuck off

I'm signing off.

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

This game is aggravating as hell.

@mod

V/LA until 6/1

[SilverWolf]

@Mod - I request that you force replace House from this game. He is browbeating people, has had constant drama with SilverWolf that he instigates, called her "as dense as Dragonspawn" which was clearly an attack calling her stupid, and then when someone else came along to try and defuse the situation by telling SW that she wasn't Dense {Read: Stupid} and used a physics joke to try and cut the tension, House instigated by pretending that he had no idea it was a reference to Junior High School level scientific knowledge and continued to wind up and instigate more drama. I think if you just sub House out, the drama he's instigating should simply subside.

@mod-Please ignore this request to remove House from the game. It is not necessary. Thank You.

[SilverWolf]

@ SilverWolf: For what it's worth, I do apologize for that post. It was rude and completely uncalled for.

Apology accepted.

[SilverWolf]

@Taly-The reason I am forcing you to explain yourself is because I feel like you are being reachy and I've gotten that vibe from many of your posts this game. Associations without a flip are worthless as well.

That's a reason why my vote is where it is, I want to see the flip of the person I'm scumreading. So I'll see how likely my reads are on the idea of association.

What about my posts have seemed reachy to you? Which ones?

You never explained what interactions between myself and anen concerned you. And why are my interactions with House weird? I dare you to find a game we have played in together where we don't bicker with each other. But what does that tell you exactly?

You didn't ask about Anenien beforehand - I didn't say that the interactions between you two concerned me. But I found that it may connect with why Anenien could have been killed. Mostly because you and House didn't seem to be working together(Which could be TownVTown, but I somewhat doubt it) - and how Anenien treated the Kitz wagon.

I also haven't seen a game, or been in a game with both you and House - so I wasn't sure where you were going about this.

If you two tend to argue with each other in the games you guys are in:

Which alignments did you guys have where you guys argued the most?

Do you think House is scum in this game?

Ugh.....................this is so damn reachy and fabricated, you are giving me major scum heebie geebies here. In answer to your questions, I don't know if House is scum. I have a notoriously difficult time reading him ever. Our arguments are usually TvT or TvS where he's scum but I don't think that matters. What I hate about this is you have decided to connect us with bogus reasoning and then decided to connect us to anen based on how he is reacting to a Kitz wagon. This is just nonsensical BS and I really don't see it coming from town.

I just haven't been in 1v1s with people this game, because I know at least half of you. This is also my first multiball, and I feel vulnerable. I don't want to get far too emotional unless I have to.

I also seriously do not like being angry.

I second or third that lalaladucks needs to post her reasons for the Taly vote. I understand she is V/LA at the moment, but I dislike when someone drops a vote on someone and either gives no reasons or says reasons later.

I've made an ENTIRE ESSAY on me looking into 5 peoples ISOs(not including my own), EXPLAINING my PARANOIA on half the people scumreading me are likely scum themselves. This is not OMGUS.

I honestly have little to no idea why people are calling me scum, then going after others, then painting my actions as scum, then saying they'll come after me later.

I have little idea on why people even think I'm scum. I even have evidence to prove against the FEW reasons that have already been stated against me.

This also looks fake as fuck. You are spending far too much time worried about your appearance this game. Your tone is off as well. I think it is more likely you will flip scum than RC or lala at this point.

VOTE: Taly

[SilverWolf]

I also do not like the drama between house and silver – I have a scum lean on silver right now.

There is no drama between House and myself. I'm actually quite surprised at how blown out of proportion this whole situation got and all the assumptions that were made. I have no idea why you feel the need to single me out but I don't like it.

[SilverWolf]

House, who the hell are you actually scumreading and why?

[SilverWolf]

House, who the hell are you actually scumreading and why?

Aside from obvscum RC?

I don't even know anymore.

Lynch the trashscum and I'll sheep your reads because idgaf anymore.

OK, but why is RC scum? I feel like you were confusing him and Drixx back there.

[SilverWolf]

OK House, But you are going to have to wait until after I'm off V/LA to seriously get into things.

[SilverWolf]

Taly and lalalala are scummates.

Discuss.

Also, yes. Lets get back on track, people. ScumHouse will figure itself out later. Vote Lala or Taly.

._.

So will you not scumread Taly when I flip town?

Cause that's what will happen.

Think Taly is scum.

Reasons later.

VOTE: Taly

tallyho!

mannnn



so much fighting

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

he's literally not even reading the thread

he votes for me cause it's the easiest option

hasn't contributed anything useful at all (yes ik hypocrisy blah blah)

These two votes are BS duckie. You voted for Taly and said you'd give reasons later. Then you switch over to Prolapsed without ever giving your reasons for Taly. I feel like you are just trolling this game at this point. I'm pretty disappointed if you are doing this as town because you are hurting the game.

Are you going to tell me why you voted for Taly in the first place or give better reasons for Prolapsed or am I wasting my time asking?

[SilverWolf]

No one besides House who is scum and trying to act irrational to push people off his scent thinks that there's any sort of logical grouping of me and Cheetory6.

Cheeto's on the other scumteam though.

What makes you think House and Cheetory are scum on opposing teams? Please elaborate on this.

[SilverWolf]

Because both of them are scum and I don't think they're scum together.

This doesn't answer my question.

[SilverWolf]

I'm not PLing someone on D3. If you can't give me reasons why he's scum, don't expect me to go along with lynching him.

[SilverWolf]

I don't like how lala voted Taly and said reasons later, then switched over to PB without ever explaining her Taly vote. I've been thinking lala is just trolling town but that is the one move she's made where I would scumread her for it and I want her to explain it.

[SilverWolf]

scum can easily hide behind acting as trolling town.

This is why I asked her for a scum game but she doesn't have one. I did check three of her towngames and they were better than this. 2 newbies and a theme.

I've been mostly townreading her because the nature of her posts implies that she is comfortable putting herself out there with the type of content that normally gets a lot of pressure and I didn't see that coming from newbscum playing their first scumgame in a Large Normal.

However, her play is quite frustrating and anti-town and she's a big distraction so I get why people are suggesting a PL or think she's scum. I really would like to hear from her again and get some content before deciding what to do about her though. If she doesn't deliver, then I won't object to lynching her.

[SilverWolf]

I know Boon, everyone plays it differently, I was just thinking of how newbscum are more likely to behave in this situation.

RC-You re-voting for House and declaring him scum, isn't going to make me more likely to consider your case. I mean first you said you didn't want to lynch him over setup spec, then you said his outrage over your joke to me was feigned (knowing House, it wasn't), then you switched to Cheetory for being too neutral during that whole argument, you pulled a scumgame to say he was neutral there but he wasn't so that point was out the window, then said you'd lynch House due to his behavior and you don't like how people are walking on eggshells around him (I don't really see this anywhere BTW), then suddenly asked Cheetory to help you lynch the other faction (in your words) even though you were voting Cheetory at the time, then changed to House again, then said he was acting irrational to keep from being suspected (which I don't really get), then said you'd be happy to PL Prolapsed after he voted you. Then re-voted House again for lulz I guess.

This just really doesn't do it for me. I work better with logic, analysis and well reasoned arguments. It's why I asked you to elaborate on how House and Cheetory are scum on opposite factions. It didn't make sense to me. I mean, first of all, Cheetory was not neutral in that scum game you pulled and he wasn't in his last scum game in 180 so I'm not seeing that at all. I am actually townreading Cheetory because of his approach to this game is exactly the way I like to do it and seems more town oriented plus he makes sense with his Bookitty suspicions and is actively trying to engage people and move the game forward. His approach is far more likely to catch scum than people pointing their fingers and yelling scum at each other.

House's behavior is not alignment indicative for him. I don't vote for people on personality. That's null. His claim is likely protown. And other than that, what is there really? I'm not really seeing a reason why he is scum.

[SilverWolf]

Cheetory, stop being paranoid will ya? I don't see scum using Varsoon associations and picking out Bookitty-who I also picked out via associations along with Kitz and Taly-instead of just going for one of the easy votes like lala or RC or House right now. I think House might be town for my own reasons. I think you are town for reason I've stated. dragon and boon are town due to being best friends and I'd probably townread them anyway at this point, Taly and Bookitty are scum, everyone else I'm not even sure of right now. I don't like how Drixx stirred the pot with the drama in this game, I don't think RC is giving good cases and is scumreading people I'm townreading, lala is trolling badly, everyone else is not posting enough, posting really surface level stuff, or mud slinging

RC-If you want to make fun of me post game for being right and I'm wrong (if that's the case), I'll consider sheeping you in future games but for this one, I need reasons that make sense to me. Sorry, I'm kind of stubborn that way.

[SilverWolf]

It would not be protown for me to elaborate on it right now House.

[SilverWolf]

I can take a look at Taly if you'd like? Are there like 2-3 small concise points that you think are convincing for him being scum that I can ISOdive him to look for?

Yeah, let me do that in my next post. Give me a few minutes to put it together. Hold tight.

[SilverWolf]

Points on Taly:

Think he may be a Varsoon associate via this post 1751 here.

There's also my vote on him and my other concerns with his posts today here: 2214 and a couple other points-ISO me to find them.

I don't like his rolefish here 1577 which I don't really see town outing a potential crumb like that.

Then there's his behavior on the Ozgin/dragonspawn wagons with all the vote switching, fencesitting, waiting to see which way the wing blows-I'm too lazy to pull it all up but you can ISO him to see what I mean. He ends up right in the middle of the Ozgin lynch wagon here 1701

Plus, a lot of his posts have a forced/fake feel and he is reachy in many of his post, again I'm too lazy to pull them all up but the one I voted him for is one and here's a couple where he's clearly way overanlayzing RVS votes that are meaningless 83 and 104.

Finally he's way too worried about his appearance like I mentioned when I voted him and over defensive when someone calls him out. I'll just give one example 1657

So, is anyone seeing what I'm seeing or am I off here?

[SilverWolf]

Bookitty-I think her Ozgin push was genuine. It almost convinced me to change my mind and was much better than Titus' case. However, she's been mostly absent from the game since Ozgin flipped and very disengaged and that seems like she's trying to distance herself from it and or stay UTR for now. Plus, there's my Varsoon associations and when you ISO her, her interactions with Varsoon are strange-she's townreading him and calls his buddying a reachout. Seriously, ISO her and you'll see-this is the strongest point for her to be a Varsoon partner yet. I also thought her behavior around Titus was weird. She's a rock solid townread here 988 and then here she calls her read null which is conflicting 1118. When Titus is up for a lynch, she comes in and doesn't say much. Then comes back later and says she's scum and puts her to L-1. It's like, she wasn't really involved in everything that went down with Titus like myself and RC were but she's convinced. I don't know, it seems off. All her reads on Titus were weird.

So, I have no problem voting for either Taly or Bookitty based on the points I've made so far on them. I think Taly is a stronger case atm.

[SilverWolf]

What wording is that? Quote it.

Nice how you only show up here and post when someone suspects you. What's up with that? I'm not talking about your V/LA. I'm talking about your behavior.

[SilverWolf]

Not from your hood. Quote me. If you are going to sling mud, you better be prepared to back it up. Your 2343 is garbage.

[SilverWolf]

I think her Ozgin push was genuine. It almost convinced me to change my mind and was much better than Titus' case.

Right there.

Yeah and what of it? That's exactly the way I feel about your Ozgin push. I even said so right here. 1517. And you should try something better than 2347 as a defense because it's lame.

[SilverWolf]

I love when scum engages me. It helps so much with my case. I'm either convinced they are scum by their response or I they convince me they are town and I move on. Bookitty's response looks scummy.

I wish Taly would come back in here since I voted for him and engage me as well.

[SilverWolf]

Happy Birthday Wake!!

[SilverWolf]

Holy crap the OMGUS, LOL. Here I'm going to OMGUS you back but I have a different reason than my original points on you.

Your Titus read was off, your behavior has been to go UTR and only post when you are pressured. You had no suspicions on me at all and you come in here when the pressure is on and sling mud and OMGUS people, you get defensive, you use AtE. You use these wild ass theories about neighborhood crap and Cheetory and I being scum for some reason. In other words, there is nothing town about the way you are handling this. Strongly reminds me of Delicious where you were scum.

VOTE: Bookitty

Now, bring a case on me and let's go or STFU about a fake scumread.

[SilverWolf]

Ergo, nothing I say will make a difference on a faked scumread. I don't know for sure if Cheetory is scum, but I think it's interesting that SilverWolf chimes in to support this read when even Cheetory is saying it's not very strong (and I disproved half of it already, by his own admission). Yet this only serves to strengthen this admittedly weak scumread when I disprove part of it. To which I say, fake scumread is fake and I don't care about it.

I love how you don't want to make a case or give reasons but make excuses instead. That is absolutely the opposite of how town should of reacted here. I call BS on this.

First, Cheetory asked people how they felt about you. I've been feeling you were off for awhile so I elaborated. I still said my Taly case was stronger. It had nothing to do with your so called disproving of Cheetory's case or how strong it was. It had to do with my own suspicions of you because I just got out of a game where you were scum and you are strongly reminding me of it.

It's amazing how you have barely posted at all and all of a sudden I make that post and here you are. And you are not really engaging me in any way that looks like town trying to deal with a scumread but more like scum worried about one.

I was hoping you'd respond with something that would help me read you one way or another and you did. So let's quote shall we?

It's interesting to me that you're using pretty much the EXACT SAME wording that was used in my hood regarding my push on Ozgin, though. We haven't discussed it out here, so what's up with that?

Oh look, mudslinging. Apparently there's some neighborhood convo going on and for some reason I know about it because I'm expressing how I feel about her Ozgin push. But oh, it's a secret. The neighborhood will tell you guys. Yeah, right ok then. Not believable at all. BS.

i. No, Cheetory, I can't. My hood will know what I'm talking about.
ii. Why do you care? You claim to think I'm scum anyway, so what possible difference could it make?

Weak-I don't want to say but my neighorhood will. Oh and what do you care what I think? I'm scum to you-AtE garbage that keeps you from having to answer to anything.

Or, I dunno, when I have time to read the game and actually catch up to it? I was here PLENTY before anyone was suspecting me and I honestly don't give a crap if you do suspect me at this point, because I'm starting to read you and Cheetory as tag-team scum.
I can't quote from my hood. I'll put it up to people in my hood whether or not you said pretty much exactly what they said. They can tell you or not, however they please.
pedit: I don't care about your read on me, Cheetory, because I think it's fake and I don't care if you try to get me lynched because it will just highlight how fake your read is when I flip town. So do your worst

Yes, now Cheetory and I are both scum. Oh, the neighborhood will know BS. She makes a big deal about not caring about the reads on her. She's not going to try to disprove them or show anyone she's town or do anything but say they are fake.

Oh wait, Cheetory is getting on her case because she's not voting. OK, well then she vote's me, someone she's not shown any suspicion of, because obviously anyone that's scumreading her must be faking it and she lays off Cheetory because apparently she's disproven his case I guess? Yet, lays out no reasons why she thinks I'm scum which right there is scummy as shit.

If this isn't scum, I don't know what is. I'm not an idiot when it comes to scumhunting either. I was right about Ozgin and Titus. I'm pretty sure I'm right here as well. I'm not moving my vote to lala or anyone else unless we need to avoid a NL at deadline.

Bookitty is scum. Period.

[SilverWolf]

The difference would be their reads towards you and various other things as opposed to being even more scumread on?
This one stings as scummy, especially how the response is.

I think they're scum.

Ergo, nothing I say will make a difference on a faked scumread.

I don't know for sure if Cheetory is scum

, but I think it's interesting that SilverWolf chimes in to support this read when even Cheetory is saying it's not very strong (and I disproved half of it already, by his own admission). Yet this only serves to strengthen this admittedly weak scumread when I disprove part of it. To which I say, fake scumread is fake and I don't care about it.

LOL-This is what is called a fabricated read.

This is what scumposting actually looks like.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Please prod Taly

[SilverWolf]

The lack of contributions from some of you is just ridiculous. Considering there are 16 people still alive in this game, I find it quite odd that I don't have reads on most of you due to lack of substantive input. I'm not talking about being busy in RL. Just that some of you are barely here and when you are here you don't really say anything that moves the game forward. I'm annoyed enough by it right now that I'm just going to back out of this game for awhile so I don't just get super crabby at people. We have about 9 days until deadline. If someone has a question or something you want me to address, @me.

@Drixx-The last post you made on House you said you felt a lot better about him being town after he angrily scumread you, so why is your vote on him right now?

[SilverWolf]

@Kitz-Who are you scumreading right now and why aren't you voting?

[SilverWolf]

RC is trolling right now for some odd reason........................................

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

[SilverWolf]

I do feel a lot better, but House has basically disappeared since then and basically ignored me and refused to agree that we both probably overreacted and that we should move on.

You will probably be waiting a long time for this..................................................

[SilverWolf]

I'd be willing to compromise on Kitz but I kind of feel strange about it because it looks like Skybird keeps jumping on the easy votes......................I mean she voted lala after several others were voting for her and talking about lynching her. Now, she votes for Kitz after a couple others are voting for her................................

[SilverWolf]

so many elongated ellipses, kinda disconcerting

Wolf, if I voted for Kitz after Skybird would you think I'm scum

I could go for a Kitz lynch

Does that really matter to you if I did? And just for the record, no I would not and I'm not necessarily thinking Skybird is scum either. She just comes off as really careful in her voting and it's pinging slightly. She didn't really say anything about Kitz when she was on earlier and saw that Kitz post but now that a couple are voting her and several say they are willing to, she jumps on. While I would be willing to compromise on Kitz, this makes me hesitate slightly.

[SilverWolf]

@Kitz-Who are you scumreading right now and why aren't you voting?

I'm always slow / reserving on votes, but yeah, I'll vote for someone I personally think needs a vote.

As for who's scummy, well.
Prolapsed Brain is a big, red button. Read his ISO, this is overal anti-game, unattentative, sheepish and fluff, lack of actual contribution.
Lala pings me really high too, for the not-much-care attitude and several other things which is made obvious by now.
Kitty is also among there, for the obvious points of mindset and play, as well as the whole "Mislynch town" thingie and "Why should I care".
Skybird pings me slightly, recently going all neutral and careful, while going for an obvious target in the same mindset.

Boonskies pings lightly, but otherwise a mix-read. Dragon is a town-lean/null. Everyone says BestFriend, but I dunno, no actual evidence yet.
Radiant reads as a "fucking troll", so mix-read.
House is null due to my mixed reads on him, but there's a townlean due to the claim and claimed actions.

Personally I read Cheetory and Anenin as town.

The rest is null. Anyway, voting PB because, god damnit, those reasons.
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

Kitz, I don't see any original thought in your scum reads. You say I'm going for a target in the same mindset but you call me neutral and careful and lalala not-much care attitude. That's a contradiction.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kitz

For example, this vote. While I don't care for that post from Kitz either look at this. Skybird thinks Kitz is contradicting herself but she's not. She's calling Skybird careful and neutral and saying lala has a not much care attitude.

Both of those things are true and about two different people so how is this a contradiction?

@Skybird-can you clarify your Kitz suspicions for me?

[SilverWolf]

I still think we should PL laladucks. I'm happy with that outcome. There is lots of noise in this game that really isn't productive. The reality is that we need to stop town-on-town vanity fights like Drixx v. House and focus on the shit that needs to get done.

Why is lala's trolling more PL worthy than say RC's trolling? If this is what you believe, why haven't you voted for lala?

[SilverWolf]

I don't think lala is trolling. I'll vote later, I don't want to end the day too fast.

So, Do you think she's being harmful intentionally? Do you think she's more likely to be scum doing that or town that doesn't give a shit?

[SilverWolf]

Bookitty-First of all, I learned the hard way to never discount anything as "scum would never do this" "they would never be partners with so and so because of this" because I've been burned very badly by it in the past. You and House and T S O worked together a lot in Delicious and in that game you were not very engaged in the game. Since this day started you have not been very engaged in the game at all. I voiced some suspicions I had in answer to Cheetory asking people about you. I was still MORE suspicious of Taly then you. I was hoping you'd engage me and discuss my suspicions but instead you reacted extremely defensively, brought up some neighborhood conspiracy theory BS, OMGUS voted me, said I was scum with Cheetory, said my scumread was fake, said you didn't care if you were lynched, used the "what do you care, you think I'm scum" defense and basically did not react like town under pressure. Also, your AtE reminded me A LOT of Delicious where you used AtE to great advantage against me as scum at one point.

The best point in your favor here is the fact that you got angry at being scumread for what you feel are bad reasons because I get really super frustrated if I feel I'm being scumread/wagoned for stupid shit. I've lost my cool over this plenty. But I usually always stick around and fight off those scumreads and address all the points. You didn't do that. You voted for me and left the thread.

I will look at your links and see if this is normal for you and do some meta. If anyone wants to see what I'm talking about, here's the Delicious game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61070

[SilverWolf]

Also, have you ever faked being angry as scum to try and disarm momentum on a wagon on you?

No, I don't believe so. Again, I've been around a LONG time so it could have happened but I don't remember it ever happening, so I'm going to say no.

You got pissed at me in Delicious as scum after House and I voted you. Do you remember that? I ended up apologizing to you for telling you to fuck off-which I should of because that was completely uncalled for on my part. Now, you could of very easily been legitimately upset with me regardless of alignment but you should understand how you getting all pissy with me for doing nothing more than voicing suspicion of you is likely to make me extremely nervous here in this game. And BTW, I think I ended up voting elsewhere after that IIRC in that game.

[SilverWolf]

I'm not saying it's impossible that Varsoon could buddy his scumbuddy. I'm saying that seems to be an afterthought, like "Bookitty is scum, let me find reasons that she is scum" as opposed to a primary reason. It's not the first thing you would think of. And when you and Cheetory start double-teaming me and picking out practically everything I've posted as a reason to scumpaint me, I'm going to become frustrated and to feel like you're trying to railroad me. That's how I felt. Rather than throwing a fit in the thread, as seems to be the fashionable response, I left for a while. I thought that was the actual responsible thing to do.

That was not my primary concern-your interactions with Varsoon but one of them. Like I've said twice now, I was responding to Cheetory asking how people felt about you and voicing some concerns. I had my vote on Taly at the time and also voiced some concerns about him. I did NOT post everything you did as a reason to scumpaint you. I said I believed your Ozgin push. You did kind of throw a fit in the thread before you left though and I still feel like you waaaaaay over-reacted there.

I will admit, some of this is a paranoia read from Delicious but your reaction to the pressure here is what caused me to vote for you.

[SilverWolf]

I was barely pushing you at first. I was much more suspicious of Taly. But you got my attention with your response. And you may not think the points are good and that's fine. That's why you disprove them and discuss them with me. You may know your alignment but I sure don't. I've gotten into it with people in games and sometimes I get to the point where I'm pushing someone and I just realize that there is no more discussion to be had because they explained everything I was worried about to my satisfaction and did some townie things in the game besides. Then, I've had it where I've pushed scum hard and caught them because they just can't defend themselves.

Meh, I do understand your frustration, I admit I might be paranoid, and I like that you are trying to clear this up. I will reconsider my read. I'd like to ISO/meta again when I have more time.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

-Has Taly responded to his prod?

[SilverWolf]

I still think Cheetory is scummy.

@bookitty Can you elaborate on this? Do you think he's scum and if so, why? 2347 was the first I saw you show any suspicion of him when you called the both of us tag team scum. You unvoted me but you say he's scummy. Explain this please.

[SilverWolf]

Sure, but it might be the morning before I can do a real post about this; I'm working on a writing deadline and I'm procrastinating, but that might be more procrastination than I can afford.

I'll try to get to it later tonight, but please forgive me if it's not until tomorrow.

No problem. Tomorrow is more than fine.