New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[dragonspawn]

Confirm

[dragonspawn]

I didn't roll scum and feel disappointed.

VOTE: Boonskiies

DIE, SCUM

scum tend to announce they are not scum at the beginning.

VOTE: tso

[dragonspawn]

I didn't roll scum and feel disappointed.

VOTE: Boonskiies

DIE, SCUM

scum tend to announce they are not scum at the beginning.

VOTE: tso

How is this tell working out for you so far?

No idea. Should I know this early?

[dragonspawn]

So how many are on the sky bird wagon

[dragonspawn]

Also <3 Boo. With a playerlist like this I'm hoping my usual melodramatic bullshit won't be a thing
Also also, you're feline-ish correct?
Cats are all about killing birds. Care to join this super duper awesome wagon on policy of sky being a bird?

P-Edit: I'm a trustworthy person Ozgin. Just look at me.
Look into my eyes o.o

Last time I trusted you, you murdered me.

[dragonspawn]

That reasoning sucks cheetory

[dragonspawn]

I didn't roll scum and feel disappointed.

VOTE: Boonskiies

DIE, SCUM

scum tend to announce they are not scum at the beginning.

VOTE: tso

How is this tell working out for you so far?

No idea. Should I know this early?

I meant in the past.

hit or miss.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: House
Avatar easy to confuse with mod's.
Also probs scum.

forth on a wagon in rvs or close to it. Like that for scum better

VOTE: duck

[dragonspawn]

I tend to think cheetory is town at this point. He was alot more lurky last game.

course it could be the fact that their are two scum teams this game.

[dragonspawn]

Hi Drixx, good to see you.

Dragonspawn, was cheetory scum in the game where he lurked?

yes. But that didn't have multiple scum teams. So I'm not sure. And I've only played one game with him so my meta read may be worth crap at this point

[dragonspawn]

@SW, I mean, I don't like Ozgin's unvote.
But hey, I feel like I'm going to suck at reading Ozgin until shit hits the fan so shrugs all around.

I tend to think cheetory is town at this point. He was alot more lurky last game.

I definitely was lurkier that game. Doesn't mean I'm always lurky as scum. I'm also o.o-ing you for not being more paranoid of me right now.

Everyone knows that "Cheetors" never prosper, so going to be taking a long hard look at Cheetory. That sounds suspiciously like some kind of mangled plural of "Cheetor" which is obviously an intentional attempt to hide "Cheater". I'm on to you Cheatory!

You got me, I'm the town cheater. I know who all the scum are. /smirk

There's content to sift through, which means I should probably actually think and write notes and stop being lazy.

No point to being paranoid this early.

[dragonspawn]

Oh, sweet. Game started. I skimmed real fast. Like real fast. Sup, dragon, how you doin'? Eh, house and Bookitty probably scum again.

VOTE: bookitty

Doing good boons. Try to stay alive longer this time.

Have house and kitty been scum buddies before?

[dragonspawn]

Yes. It's overly friendly and explanatory for this point in the game. *shrug* Nothing too strong but it doesn't make me feel good.

You've tried this on me before. Going after me for being friendly. I think you are going for the 71 let's push Wolf and see what happens. So I think we might as well get going here before House starts up with me for the same reasons.

Besides your vote for me and the above reasons, you don't seem to have much to say. What do you think about both the Skybird wagon and the House wagon and how they happened. Any of those votes bother you at all yet?

pedit: Cool, Ozgin is towning it up nicely. Good to see.

This is known multiball, so I'm not going to assume the best or worst of any wagon yet. I expect everyone to be scumhunting. It's day 1 and we aren't even at page 5. I'm not putting any stock at all in wagon analysis yet. I do like Skybirds #159.

So, just curious, if everyone is supposed scum hunt, which makes perfect sense in the set up, what should we think if someone wasnt?

[dragonspawn]

Ozgin, I wouldn't consider 3 votes on someone in a 21 player game to be 'fast'.
Especially this early in the game.
Furthermore, I don't understand the suspicion you were throwing onto my slot.

:/

You don't think 3 votes in 6 minutes is fast? I mean, they had to have thought and concluded upon the previous votes, then typed out their vote and their shitty reasons (no offense guys) in only 3 minutes each (referring to Kitz and lala)?

It doesn't matter how early in the game we are,

posting speed

is independent of

time of post

.

I didn't like that you mindlessly sheep'd Cheetory because you "trust" him. It was a shitty reason, even in RVS. At least I vaguely had a reason. Didn't you read my posts regarding you?

Making a good point here. Speed might indicate a scum team pushing a wagon. After all they do have day talk

[dragonspawn]

How do you know when someone posts in another game (I mean barring the obvious that you are in that game)?

And isn't it against the rules to discuss other ongoing games?

[dragonspawn]

I like the wagon I'm on better.

[dragonspawn]

Eh, why not?

VOTE: Ozgin



Dunno if he's tryhard scum or tryhard town, will assume the former for now because his push on me feels calculated~

Thank you for reinforcing my point for me.

[dragonspawn]

This whole ozgin push feels completely wrong. Haven't figured out why exactly. But I will.

[dragonspawn]

You don't like opinions on wagons?

[dragonspawn]

I didn't like it. What's a more concrete opinion than that?

[dragonspawn]

So tso claims to be town off the bad and I vote for it in random voting and my reasoning is bad.

Ozgin claims to be a citizen and he's scum.

Not following the logic here. Though I certainly agree that claiming he was a citizen was unnecessary and odd.

[dragonspawn]

Not so sure of that Titus. Wolf has gotten better a hiding her tells

[dragonspawn]

This whole ozgin push feels completely wrong. Haven't figured out why exactly. But I will.

Do you think he's town here? Who, among the Ozgin pushers don't you like?

Not sure. If it wasn't multi team scum, I'd think he was town.

Titus seems alright. But Varsoon and then duck immediately jumping on just didn't feel right.

[dragonspawn]

Kitz are you scum?

I mean, that was a wonderful story and all, but...

If I say no, will you say I'm scum for saying obv-no?
If I say yes, will you tunnel me all the way to planet jupiter?

If you admitted being scum is there anyone who wouldn't be voting you?

[dragonspawn]

Taly,

Specifically, I don't like the way Varsoon and ducks have been pushing their wagons then when Titus votes ozgin they suddenly switch their votes in rapid succession. It doesn't feel organic. Especially duck.

[dragonspawn]

I think LaLa is low hanging fruit. There's a general evasion happening where LaLa isn't really addressing worthwhile points being made against their slot.
Does that make it scum? Eh.
Feels more like path of least resistance.
I'd actually be okay with a lynch there since LaLa isn't providing much for the game.

That said, I really like the most recent back and forth between Ozgin and Cheetory.
Ozgin's very abrasive and feels like he's wheeling back especially in post 300.

@Ozgin

: So LaLa's got a 'shit push' (I'd prefer you actually detail why the push is bad, which I've inferred to be due to the really bogus reasoning that if House isn't 'confirmed town' this early then he must be scum--I think that's absurd reasoning and the push on House is an attempt to drum up pressure, which is what I disagreed with before, since so much of the wagon was rooted in that bogus reasoning and House didn't seem to feel that pressure at all) and has reacted poorly to people's votes and questioning? That's a solid enough reason for voting there. Do you have other reads? Do you think that Scumteams would really pile on someone so much this early?

@Cheetory:

What was the deal with your Aeronaut stuff earlier in the game?

@Bookitty

: You've grown to become a player who I put a lot of stock in. You've got very strong direction as town, and in this game, even if you're scum, you'd need to eliminate the SK and the other team. I want to know your reads and thoughts on the game. I'd like to see you be more vocal. I want your voice to be in this game. In all the 21 player games I've seen, Town only wins when there are dominant town voices. I want to hedge my bets on you, Boo. Get in here!

@RadiantCowbells

: Please don't phone this game in. You're an easy lynch and I'd like you to be more outspoken and here. I don't want to see you either skim by or get lynched based on path of least resistance.

I liked this post. Feels townish to me. I like you calling out the lurkers.

[dragonspawn]

I tend to agree. Why should townies fear house? If he is scum we will lynch him. If he is town he will help us lynch the scum. How about we let him play a little before we speculate on what his alignment is.

[dragonspawn]

Hi Silverwolf! Good to see you too.

Gotta do a little OMGUS!

Still leaning that this vote is awkward in its justification.

So do you think House is scum this game?

Completely empty question. Seems like she might be trying to play up House's reputation: "I am so so very paranoid of this person this game wow golly look at me I am definitely town because I am genuinely paranoid rite guyz?"

Cheetory, you don't like jokes?

No.
Jokes are for COMEDIANS.

I want to say that it feels like sky not analyzing her own wagon comes across as her trying to ignore it until it goes away, but I'd be interested in discussing that with someone who might disagree/agree.

This post makes me go hmmm. How many games have you played Kitz?

Of all things to go after, this seems easyyyyy. Though, the followup on this has a little bit of what seems like townparanoia to it:

Kitz, from your join date I would have thought that you knew what that meant. Just trying to figure out if you are scum trying to drop a fake towntell.

I think it's the fact that she's trying to figure out whether Kitz is doing what she's doing before labeling it as scummy.
Tinfoilhatme is all like "but Cheetory scum can scumhunt in this game". You're right tinfoilhatme. Thanks for your input and for reminding me why I hate multiball .

Her switch to Kitz could be motivated by seeing how much hate the Housewagon is getting.
Overall, leaning scum, but not strongly.

skybird

Cheetory, not sure if you want a response to this but I'm going to give you one anyway.

First, I've played with Silverwolf, House, and Dragonspawn at another site. FA_Q2 as well. Some of what looks weird to you is inside jokes.

Funny you say you don't like jokes. You definitely threw several out before you started scumhunting. Not sure why that is OK for you and not other people.

The wagon on me is an RVS wagon. Why would I get paranoid over the wagon or analyze it at this point?

My push on Kitz is me starting to play the game and be serious. Not to say I still won't make a joke or two, but I'm definitely in scum hunting mode.

We've played each other before? Another name?

[dragonspawn]

I'll join in this game tomorrow. Had a busy past few days. Also, on the dragon spawn to Ozgin thing, Ozgin

always

has a stupid pointless wagon on him, regardless of alignment. He eventually obv towns it up when he is town, so just wait and see if that happens later...Ozgin is

not

a day 1 lynch sort of person. Day 3, by all means, lynch him.

Thanks for the info. You're the best.

I agree that ozgin is someone we should observe. Last time we played he was pinging me like crazy. I'm not getting that now. Granted, it's still the first 48 hours of the game.

[dragonspawn]

Personally, I didn't expect to have 4 votes on House to wagon him so quickly, specifically since my vote was originally in an RVS state.

Of course, I'm giving House the benefit of the doubt in the idea that he hasn't voted yet,

but I'm going to keep my vote on him

.

I find it weird that Taly said this italicised part.

[/unvote] I need to evaluate this House wagon, because a four vote spring-up is strange, now that you mention it.

And then when Ozgin unvotes,

Yeah, it is.

I feel like scum is parroting someone here. Kitz and Sky are pinging me.

Kitz was preferring a Boons vote as opposed to Sky in 107 - but she votes for House whenever I say gauging House for a reaction would benefit.

This was right after 116 where Sky said he liked pressured to be on House and made their vote.

Needless to say, I'm a bit more suspicious of Kitz at the moment.

UNVOTE: House

Jumping off this wagon, there are already too many votes to have its original desired effect and House is no longer my main priority.

Taly follows suit. I mean, House wasn't close to being lynched, he had five votes on him when it takes 11 to lynch (discounting possible vote-altering PR's) which is quite a lot yeah, but not life-threatening. Careful scum trying to look town?
House always gets RVS voted for his reputation, so it was an easy random vote for Taly to choose. Of course, this could probably just as easily come from town but it just makes me suspicious of Taly.
Wow, I'm really not explaining myself well :/

This is probably the most townish post I've seen from you.

Course you need more than one post to get me to change your mind. I don't know whether you were just goofing off before or whether your scum buddies just told you to step up.

[dragonspawn]

Dragonspawn, yes, maybe the name Shaitra rings a bell?

Ah yes my old scum buddy. Thought it might be you. Now ill have to keep an eye on you.

[dragonspawn]

Yes, but we all know you have a silver tongue Dragon. I just sat back and let you do all the talking.

I do like talking.

[dragonspawn]

Talk to me about Cheetory please Dragon. Have you played with him before?

One game only. He was scum. Lurked a lot. Got me town reading him at one point even though my gut was screaming scum from the beginning. Didn't reconsider it until litterally the second before the thread got locked and he killed me.

He's playing differentlty this game. Could be he is scum and this multiball or it could just be that he is town this time.

[dragonspawn]

Has anything impressed you house?

[dragonspawn]

What's a ducking?

[dragonspawn]

What's a ducking?

that was supposes to be duckgoat. Apparently autocorrect is still not my friend.

[dragonspawn]

God, I love how much I intimidate people.

You don't intimidate me in the least. Where on Earth did you get that idea? I think your attitude sucks ass because there's a lot of info. in those pages and just because you weren't participating does not mean you should ignore it or tell others it's worthless. That is indeed promoting apathy and a negative atmosphere of "who gives a fuck"

feeling like a town wolf response.

I agree. House isn't that intimidating. Sorry man.

[dragonspawn]

Not liking post 402 by house.

why not? It made sense to me. You can't be very useful to the town if you end up dead without contributing to the win.

[dragonspawn]

Not liking post 402 by house.

why not? It made sense to me. You can't be very useful to the town if you end up dead without contributing to the win.

She's used to my earlier games where I was apathetic to survival as town.

this post feels off. I was asking her and you answered. I've seen you flip out at people who answered questions you direct to others. And yet you felt the need to do so. Why? Why not let sky answer?

[dragonspawn]

Wait a second. Wasn't taly the first one voting for house? Now all of a sudden he doesn't want to lynch house today. Taly defending house just seems weird to me. Especially since I've seen how you guys don't get along as town.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: Ozgin

I felt like Lala was low-hanging fruit but the recent lala posts made me conflicted enough to swap votes.
On one hand, recent posts from laladucks were cogent, apologetic, and generally understandable.
On the other, that's a method of survivalism that SK would almost certainly -have- to employ.
I kinda wanted to put more pressure there but this seems to be all we'll get.

House and Sky are town, imo. I'd like to avoid that for now.

why are you mentioning the SK this early in the game?

[dragonspawn]

Hey Silver, I looked at some of your posts and your vote is still placed on Lala, what do you think about her recent posts? Her recent posts seem to be better in quality.

Also, are you still thinking Titus is scummy? 401 Feels a little odd with me.

Don't understand why House is caring about survival as town right now. :/ I still see town-House, but I have no idea what he is trying to accomplish right now.

P-Edit

410

Titus, why are you saying Ozgin is obvscum? Plus, there has already been a wagon on Ozgin - of which you're still on, what else do you have in mind?

Wait a second. Wasn't taly the first one voting for house? Now all of a sudden he doesn't want to lynch house today. Taly defending house just seems weird to me. Especially since I've seen how you guys don't get along as town.

Slight misrep.

When did I even fucking say I was fine with not lynching House today? Don't assume shit that isn't there. I'm just saying that I'm townreading House, even though I'm becoming increasingly more concerned about his motives.

Also, my first vote on House was an RVS vote. Why are you treating it as if it were taken so seriously and that I'm now contradicting myself? I don't know where you're even getting this...

Also, House and I have 1v1ed as both town before - does it mean 1 of us is scum right off the bat when we don't?

how is it a misrep? You specifically said and I quote:

"@All, I really don't care to lynch House."

so you don't care to lynch house but you aren't saying you were fine with not lynching him? You specifically said it was your desire not to lynch house. That doesn't make sense.

[dragonspawn]

Yeah, I can see Lala and Ozgin being in different factions, I'm more inclined to believe 1 is town, and the other is scum - but I don't think we're at that point to say.

Titus, you said that you'd wagon Kitz before Lala - What do you think about Kitz so far in contrast to Ozgin?

Also Dragon, sorry if I seemed a bit vulgar in my recent post. I stand by what I said, though.

Kitz looks better than Ozgin. I could still see Kitz being scum, going for a fake towntell of not understanding the 14:3:3:1. I'm not as familiar with Kitz. We've danced around voting her, yet no one ever has. She hasn't done anything outwardly scummy but nothing that really says town. She's definitely in my watch list. I think Kitz is the one player I don't have an extensive or recent history with on this list, so I'm deferring to others for now.

We are lynching Ozgin.

its still the first 48 hours of day 1. Some people have barely said a thing. Why on earth would we choose to lynch ozgin based on this pathetic amount of information? Yeah we might lynch him at the end of the day. Buti see no reason to tunnel anyone this early.

[dragonspawn]

We're in a 14-3-3-1 setting. When I say SK, I refer to that 1.
Why mention it?
Because it exists.

it may exist but he is one scum in seven. Why specifically think about or mention him this early in the game? Why focus on his or her motives as opposed to anyone playing a scummy game?

[dragonspawn]

I don't feel very relevant to this game.

that's because you have barely been playing it. Step up. Share some thoughts and don't waste time bemoaning how irrelevant you are.

[dragonspawn]

So we are not only discussing the SK now. But speculating that he is bulletproof???

I see no reason to even speculate on that until we've seen some flips. Its day freakin 1. SK hunting is not what town should be doing. We should just be generally scum hunting and chances are we will find the SK without focusing specifically on him or her.

so again, what's your town motivation for SK hunting at this point?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Ok wth??

Seriously if you aren't going to step up and play replace out.

The game has barely started and there is no reason you can't catch up in the time you are taking to complain.

[dragonspawn]

Prob anen but I can't be sure either.

Any reason why?

[dragonspawn]

Looks like my questioning has unnerved people. I always like that. Means im having an impact.

Scared of me house?

[dragonspawn]

Your false bravado does not influence my scumread on you.

I appreciate it though.

Lol. Your scum read amounts to Jack. And there was nothing false about my bravado. I really am glad to see my questioning and encouragement to get off your butt and play has had an affect.

[dragonspawn]

Killed what people?? No one is dead yet.

[dragonspawn]

What do you think of house sleeping him? I find that action far more interesting.

[dragonspawn]

You're right taly. My bad.

[dragonspawn]

That's what I get for playing on the phone. I withdrawal all my previous statements on the subject and feel really stupid now.

[dragonspawn]

House, how do you feel about Dragon so far?

He's scum.

Don't let him fool you with his tricks.

what tricks are those?

[dragonspawn]

I didn't roll scum and feel disappointed.

VOTE: Boonskiies

DIE, SCUM

scum tend to announce they are not scum at the beginning.

VOTE: tso

OK, Starting to do some ISO's here and I don't like dragon's at all. His vote for T S O 59 was bad. I've seen tons of people say that as town. The last game we played, Grib did the same thing and he was town. dragon was in that game too His 131 vote for la la wasn't good either or the reasoning behind it.

233 dragon have you figured this out yet? What do you think of the Ozgin push now?

Even though RC has barely posted, I do like his entrance into the game, it seems townish although that is just a gut read here. I don't like dragon's response here 455 seem pretty hostile for no reason. Don't like this either 466.

I don't like my vote on la la anymore because her response to her wagon was to go and look at all the votes on it and analyze them which is a farily townish response. I'd like to see more from her though.

I like the Kitz push but I think people need to follow it up with some votes there. dragon is worse than kitz for me right now however.

I re-read Titus and she seems town. Her Ozgin push feels genuine and I completely understand the Citizen argument and think it's valid. However, it's early in the game and we need to look at other people as well and develop some other reads, get other wagons going, etc.

VOTE: dragonspawn

what part of duck opportunistically jumping on a random wagon is bad reasoning? Granted ducks more recent posts are better. But you can hardly say I'm bad for voting duck when you did the same thing.

I already explained to you what I didn't like it. I didn't like varsoon and duck jumping on ozgin like they did. Scum having daytalk means they are more likely to slip up by doing things in unison. Thought it might be a scum plan. Still don't like how we are barely into day 1 and people are seriously pushing hard to lynch him when we have ton of day to go. Yes the citizen comment is not a good thing for him but id like to see more.

[dragonspawn]

@Wolf, Why are you avoiding the Ozgin wagon? You have acknowledged that the citizen case is good, but you pile on the la la wagon. Then, as la la dies down, you move to another wagon increasing, while stating the reason I am pushing is good.

You state you are voting for Ozgin because he is unnecessarily hostile. Yet what do you call the your child could be evil thing but unnecessarily hostile?

You keep doing this thing where you endorse the Ozgin push but never get on.

isn't she voting for me? At least at the time of this post.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: Dragonspawn

I have a theory.

which is wrong, but I would still like yo hear it.

[dragonspawn]

Guys, I'm sick. So I'm probably going to be out the rest of the day. Will see about getting back to this tomorrow. Just an FYI.

get better.

[dragonspawn]

Sure.

Cheetory is actively engaging with people and pushing suspicions in a way that feels organic. While this could be a product of scum-vs-scum in this game, it doesn't feel like that to me.

Titus is addressing the game in ways I've seen her do as town. This doesn't prove anything for anyone else (though it gives me warm fuzzies toward her) but as I said I wouldn't lynch her anyway because she's way more effective with a flip or two to analyse. I am more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt based on her play and accuracy in other games I've played with her.

That's what Cheet does as scum with another scum group. I've seen it. No offense, but the Titus read doesn't feel great either.

I tend to agree. Why should townies fear house? If he is scum we will lynch him. If he is town he will help us lynch the scum. How about we let him play a little before we speculate on what his alignment is.

I think the point was that they are scum who fear House. But if that were the case, couldn't they pretty much ignore him today and just NK him?

@Egg: Damn right I'm buddying Bookitty. Bookitty should be my buddy. If enough buddies get together, they can form a strong pact that'll destroy the scum. At this point, I don't care if my buddies are scum or third party. We need to eliminate an entire team or we lose. I've been in multiball before. If scum and third party double-down on their kills on town (and if town has killing abilities they mess up too), then we could easily lose several of our members after a mislynch. It's best to have everyone working together rather than against each other. I'll make friends and buddies for that cause.

That doesn't make me feel any better. Or worse, oddly enough.

Skybird seems... more serious... since Cheet's case was posted. Not sure how I feel about that.

Boon is probably town so that's pretty cool I guess.

I feel better about laladucks. The first couple of effort posts have a good feel to them. And then the fact that she shows a difference between good votes on her and dragonspawn's which I agree kind of sucks.

House, why no vote on Varsoon on Page 15?

Skybird, I assume you've played with House considering where you came from. Would you really expect House to come into this game any differently as scum? Really? Abrasive and not giving a shit is just House. It's not just town House. It's House.

Titus, why is Varsoon town?

Being an ass has a much higher survival rate, in my experience.

And survival is your goal? Because that tends to matter to scum more than town. And seeing the discussion after this post, let me just say this. House, you know you frustrate me sometimes, right?

Dragonspawn, as someone who suspects Varsoon, I don't see your issue with him. Mentioning the SK when it comes to survival is fair. Assuming they are bulletproof is also fair. However, House was just saying stuff about being an ass not getting him NK'd so if Varsoon is trying to argue that House is SK, it's a bad arguement.

Oh look! A danio in a vote count! I have one of those. Got him over two years ago. And I actually had a dream about that tank last night where my fiance just kept buying more and more fish until they were too crowded.

Titus, remind me to go back to your 492 if two scum from the same team flip that were already on that wagon at that point. Scum tend to not want to all vote together because it feels "obvious" even though it isn't and it's entirely possible that Silverwolf is afraid to sheep scumbuddies on that wagon. Or maybe she is scum with Ozgin and doesn't want to bus but knows he is scummy so she's going to the other wagon that is building. Either way though, you're right that she seems like she's avoiding the wagon and I don't like it.

Anen feels like he doesn't want to be on wagons. He suspects Ozgin. He thinks dragonspawn is his buddy. There are wagons on both. And he votes Kitz on a "what if". What?

Unvote

On Ozgin, I dislike Titus's case. He didn't claim VT. He claimed town. However. The way he claimed it still pretty bad. The word citizen isn't nearly as common as townie. At first, I thought it was an offsite kind of thing. It felt awkward but it was no big deal. But saying it over and over when that's how it is phrased in the OP, yeah. It feels like he's trying to make sure he uses the right vote. I intend to vote him, but let me count votes first.

I agree. Of scum was afraid of house the more obvious thing to do is just ignore him and nk. But maybe they aren't afraid of him. Maybe they think they mislynch him or think they can get the town afraid of him. Shrugs.

I'm just trying to figure out what side he is on. Game feels different but I'm not sure if that alignment indicative or not.

as for varsoon, I thought the SK comments are odd because ots usually scum interested in the SK this early. So they can look like the are scum hunting. Problem is this is multi all so they should be scum bunting regardless. And also little cautious of varsoon because of my upclose view of his recent scum game. He is really good at avoiding suspicion.

I'm also eading oz as more townish. I don't like how his wagon is already at L4 this early in the game. Obvious I'm willing to keep an eye on him. I should take a closer look at his wagon too.

[dragonspawn]

CLAIM: JESTER

pls lyncherinoes me.

You want us to lynch you for being a jester yet you're voting for me cause I told you to knock out the nonsense. I will never understand how anyone finds this gameplay to be useful.

[dragonspawn]

Uh, letting other people fight about their nonsense, and sitting back and cruising by?

Gosh I just have to be upfront, don't I :c
Okay. So, what do you think House is going to look at first when he starts reading the game?
In my head, I imagine him first going "there is a wagon on me. Hm." and then looking at those votes. If lala and Kitz are afraid of House and they're scum, why wouldn't they be worried about him taking a closer look at them because of their votes on him? Why would they need to forge reasoning so hard for why they think someone is scum if they're capable of hunting for a second scumteam if they were scum?

I'll join in this game tomorrow. Had a busy past few days. Also, on the dragon spawn to Ozgin thing, Ozgin

always

has a stupid pointless wagon on him, regardless of alignment. He eventually obv towns it up when he is town, so just wait and see if that happens later...Ozgin is

not

a day 1 lynch sort of person. Day 3, by all means, lynch him.

Thanks for the info. You're the best.

I agree that ozgin is someone we should observe. Last time we played he was pinging me like crazy. I'm not getting that now. Granted, it's still the first 48 hours of the game.

Radiant, if you're not going to play like a normal player and play like a fucking troll, then replace out.

Otherwise, do something fucking productive, will ya?

Be careful. I told him that and now he is scum reading me. It's an obvious scum tell apparently to tell someone to play the game.

[dragonspawn]

I agree. Of scum was afraid of house the more obvious thing to do is just ignore him and nk. But maybe they aren't afraid of him. Maybe they think they mislynch him or think they can get the town afraid of him. Shrugs.

I'm just trying to figure out what side he is on. Game feels different but I'm not sure if that alignment indicative or not.

as for varsoon, I thought the SK comments are odd because ots usually scum interested in the SK this early. So they can look like the are scum hunting. Problem is this is multi all so they should be scum bunting regardless. And also little cautious of varsoon because of my upclose view of his recent scum game. He is really good at avoiding suspicion.

I'm also eading oz as more townish. I don't like how his wagon is already at L4 this early in the game. Obvious I'm willing to keep an eye on him. I should take a closer look at his wagon too.

I'm mass murdering everybody at your house so hard tonight.

Aww shucks. I guess ill call the neighborhood watch to keep an eye on you.

[dragonspawn]

It's ok guys I'm town.

Then see a doc. Suicidal tendencies are not healthy

[dragonspawn]

Possibly because he read his pm or the rules multiple times as wake asked.

Who knows. Like I said it's a reason to keep an eye on him but I'm not sure it's a reason to push a lynch this early.

[dragonspawn]

I thought sky was the scum cheetory

[dragonspawn]

game

I like this post. Feels townish.

now if only you'd share your theory

[dragonspawn]

What posts exactly are fake? I'd like to know because even when I am scum, I am genuine. If I didn't have yo lie about my alignment in scum games I wouldn't. Why? Because nothing is to be gained by not being genuine. Look at my scum game. Was I on anyones radar? Why because lying serves no purpose, especially as town.

my best guess right now is duck. Its still early and duck has posted a bit better but id like to see more before I give the all clear.

Titus push on oz seems genuine. Course that doesn't make her town cause scum is scum hunting. I don't particularly like how she is trying to push his lynch so quickly.

I still think ozs response is genuine too. And his citizen comment is concerning but I don't think its the smoking gun Titus and others are treating it.

as far as giving you a reason, look at my scum game. Or ask my friends. Some of them think they can read me. Some of them know me.

[dragonspawn]

Let's try this again dragonspawn:

Couldn't he have just said that when I asked the first approximately three times, initially giving him the benefit of the doubt?

pretty sure he did.

[dragonspawn]

I think the fact he used citizen isn't the issue. If he is a citizen why would he claim something else no matter how much the term is used?

the problem is he claimed. And then afterwards said he was using it to say he is town but not the actual role. That's the problem.

is that enough to make him scum? Maybe. Should we be focusing on him as much as we are? Probably not.

but whether he is town or scum we might be able to look at his wagon and find some of the scum on it.

[dragonspawn]

Problem is no matter how big my ego gets, I'm not going to magically become scum.

[dragonspawn]

Superbloc. Interesting. Not townbloc.

[dragonspawn]

Because I like observing, inquiring, and trying to figure people out. Rushing to judgments in a large game doesn't seem prudent to me. So yeah, I'm not sure of everyone yet. When I get more certain I will be more committed.

Though I've been fairly committed to questioning people. I've been committed to my vote with duck. My opposition to ozgins wagon has been committed as well.

So I guess being committed depends on how you define it.

Why are you so sure cheetory is town?

[dragonspawn]

Hey Italy, what response s of mine have been fake?

[dragonspawn]

I hate autocorrect

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: tso

Of all the votes for ozgin this is the one with absolutely no explanation.

I'd like some reason why you are on the wagon tso. What do you think of the argument on oz and what do you think of his reaction to it?

[dragonspawn]

Taly, that unvote feels more like "I don't want to be associated with the people on the wagon than "I think Ozgin is town".

Who are you thinking taly doesn't want to associate with?

[dragonspawn]

If you aren't the cockiest motherfucker I've ever seen.

I dunno, this is pretty much the most satisfying thing for me.
I'm all in on ya, Ozzy~

It's a shame you moved right into insult, then denial, then rationalizations.

@Dragonspawn:

I've got a hunch towards the reason for TSO joining on, but, yes, that could use some articulation.

To be fair, you are cocky. You did fake a guilty claim on the cop and then claim Miller as an excuse last time we played. Of course you got away with it so maybe you have some reason to be cocky.

[dragonspawn]

Wasn't expecting that response. Lol

[dragonspawn]

@Cheetory, what do you think of Varsoon sleeping you earlier with sky? What about his push for ozgin?

[dragonspawn]

@Ozgin: I already responded to all of those, man, go spend some more time in my ISO! Back to the ISO you go!
Also, your avatar looks like the dude who says that it's all Kamen Rider Decade's fault. Do you know the guy?

@Dragon: I wasn't sleeping with Cheetory, I was sheeeeping with Cheetory. <3
...do you have a neighborhood? You keep dodging me here, man.

@Italy: <3
I have a secret tinfoil theory that Dragon is super-scum, but I am still hatching these eggs.

Maybe.

[dragonspawn]

Dragon, generally - I have had a weird hunch about your reads. You haven't committed to major opinions on people, and I'm honestly not really impressed with some interactions you've had - in terms with RC, and in ISOing you, I'm a little curious about you and Boons. Also, your misinterpretation of my, and someone elses posts does come off as somewhat disingenuous. The push on TSO is understandable, but overall - I'm skeptical about your posts, some of the people I'm kind-of townreading are pursuing you, and I think you're as decent as a suspect as Kitz or Ozgin, but for different reasons.

Also, last game we had. I townread you, and you were scum that hammered my town mislynch in lylo. I see some pattern from that game in this game, but not all of it. Still, that is partially why I think some of your posts so far aren't real.

Side-Note, I tend to not townread scum, especially in lylo so yeah.

Thanks for the PTSD around yourself Dragon.

~ Italy

(Also, the PTSD, and Italy jokes are what they are, not jabs. I'm liking Varsoons laid-back attitude at the moment, it's relaxing. It also makes me less tempted to go V/LA to reduce current stresses in my life since I have finals/writing book/dealing with friends dynamic/quite a few other things that are more personal/etc.)

Doesnt exactly tell me what is fake. I mixed a Titus post with one of your posts. I already said I was mistaken. How does sdmittingly being mistaken contribute to me being fake? Or anything really.

[dragonspawn]

Also, don't expect me to produce content per se. That's just not me.

You know my reads, my reads are good, I've created a wagon on Dragon that I'd love to see come to fruition D1. That's about all I'll do for the day most likely.

So you have no intention of ever providing content?

Fabulous.

[dragonspawn]

Observation point. People resisted Ozgin the Obvscum because it was too early to get a large wagon. Yet Dragonspawn has a wagon out of nowhere that is larger.

Noted. Total shit.

Taly, I'm looking at you in particular.

Good point

[dragonspawn]

But Titus.

What happens when Dragon flips scum?

Then we are playing a different game. Cause what you've described is literally impossible this game.

[dragonspawn]

Observation point. People resisted Ozgin the Obvscum because it was too early to get a large wagon. Yet Dragonspawn has a wagon out of nowhere that is larger.

Noted. Total shit.

Taly, I'm looking at you in particular.

If you think that is the true essence of why I changed my vote then you are wrong. Please re-read my post where I switch. Plus, the Ozgin and Dragon wagons are both at the same amount. Stop treating as if everything other than your tunnel is worth shit. I have yet to be in a fucking situation where hard-pushing someones wagon in confidence leads to helpful things in town - especially in D1, and the idea that that is mostly all you've done so far, from aside of trying to get people to go on your wagon and putting down other alternatives that are just as valid - really does not make your push and reasoning come much from a town perspective.

Yeah, I can see that your push on Ozgin can be from genuine belief - but you aren't even 100% sure that Ozgin is scum either, and frankly, I really don't know IF you have any OTHER scum reads. I don't know what your thought process is Titus.

*Takes Deep Breath*
OK, got that out of my system. <3

Also. If you read my post, you would know - that I may or may not stay off the Ozgin wagon for good, so I don't know why you're looking at me when I'm sticking to my own formed judgments. Hell, I'm going to ISO Dragon and Ozgin so I may just go back to my vote. Is that a big deal?

595

Well for one, posts like 594 seem a bit off-handed. Not sure what you were referring to, nor meaning.

It is late where I am, tomorrow - I'm most likely going to ISO both you and Ozgin to settle my reads, I'll give my thoughts on your posts - why I think some seem really weird, and then I'll make my decision on the wagons. I may or may not change.

So far, you haven't done much to defend yourself from your wagon Dragon, which makes me a bit curious, versus Ozgin, all he's done is react to people suspecting him, and then go after Varsoon in particular. Off face-value, you guys don't seem to be towny.

I haven't done much to defend myself? How can you claim that? I've responded to every question about me that I've seen. I haven't shied away from anything. And I am denying that I am scum. What the heck do you consider defending myself?

Not only have I been defending myself, I've been asking questions and trying to figure people out.

Multiple times I've asked you to show me where I've been fake. All you pointed to was the posts where I mistakenly thought Titus post was yours. When I realized the mistake I corrected myself.

Tell me, am I this aggressive as scum? Why the heck would I be doing anything to draw attention to myself in a large game?

[dragonspawn]

It's ok.

Scum won't let me live long so you don't have to worry about me.

Why on earth would scum pick you to kill?

[dragonspawn]

Dragon, I want to know what you've found out.
Asking questions and trying to discern things is fine, but asking questions just to look active and not really doing anything, well...
That's kinda like putting up the illusion of being a helpful guy.
And I'd rather just have town be full of -actual- helpful guys.

Funny. I haven't found you to be very helpful in this game.

The game has barely started. The fact that your expecting profound reads when some people have barely posted is ridiculous. Ill continue to bask questions. Note when things seem weird and scum hunt. If you have a problem with that lynch me. But this wagon is nonsense so far. And the fact that a good chunk of you can't articulate a reason whim scum makes it more nonsense.

[dragonspawn]

Let's try this again dragonspawn:

Couldn't he have just said that when I asked the first approximately three times, initially giving him the benefit of the doubt?

pretty sure he did.

Someone is gonna have to show me then because last I knew he left open the possibility he is a power role which rules that out.

I think the fact he used citizen isn't the issue. If he is a citizen why would he claim something else no matter how much the term is used?the problem is he claimed. And then afterwards said he was using it to say he is town but not the actual role. That's the problem.is that enough to make him scum? Maybe. Should we be focusing on him as much as we are? Probably not.but whether he is town or scum we might be able to look at his wagon and find some of the scum on it

This is such a wishy washy almost defense kind of post. Like you want to defend him without calling him town.

Skybird, you are town reading House for something you and I both believe he does as town and scum. I don't understand why.

Taly, I mostly got that impression because you are still making points against him and trying to justify unvoting with things like the fact that he is L-4 so early or wanting to see him play without pressure. Even calling him bad town feels like an excuse. I think it's possible you just don't want your name on the wagon.

I don't get it. I'm interpreting conflicted data here and it makes me suspicious of you people. Do you guys really think I'm in it with Ozgin and/or Dragon? If so, you've never stated why.

I don't think Ozgin or dragonspawn is scum WITH you, no.

Ozgin, ISO me. I'm pretty sure you'll find my point on you in about three of my last five posts.

Who are you thinking taly doesn't want to associate with?

I don't think Taly wants to be lumped in with those voting Ozgin.

Titus, why would scum NOT want to lynch the other team? That makes no sense.

Radiant, why are you in this game?

Varsoon, I'd love to know your super secret dragonspawn tell but outting roles is bad, so *shrug*. Let me at least ask this. Are you sure enough that if he flips town, it means you were lying or could you be wrong?

I don't know that he is town. I think he is town.

And who specifically on the wagon doesn't taly want to associate with?

[dragonspawn]

Yes I'm going to figure out the game in 26 pages.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. But no one is that good.

[dragonspawn]

I don't rush results. But here is what I will tell you.

House is off. He's lurking far more than usual.

Ozgin is probably town. Titus probably is too.

Boonskies is towniest there can be.

Duck is still scummy.

Radiant shouldn't be playing this game but is probably town.

We should be putting a lot more pressure on the people who haven't said much.

You and cheetory have something going on.

I need to play day 1 better. Because every game gets me scum read early on.

Now, care to step up and tell us what you've learned?

[dragonspawn]

Oh hi guys

So I'm finishing up exams this week, so I'll probably not be able to get to this game until saturday-ish. Should be all set after that, though!

Finals over yet?

[dragonspawn]

Internet was out yesterday and I was busy anyway. I'll catch up when I can

[dragonspawn]

Ok Skybird. You were calling him town at first but that's fair. I'm satisfied for now.

Silverwolf, ok. In your case, it's not really an issue unless Ozgin flips scum and dragonspawn turns out to not be his buddy.

ozgin is not my buddy. I just am not impressed with the case.

taly and wolf had some lengthier posts I need to respond to from a better computer.

[dragonspawn]

Add Boonskiies to the would lynch pile.

then you aren't paying attention.

[dragonspawn]

I'm in a neighborhood called Central Windgale with dragonspawn (and some others), and I want him dead so I can participate in it, please.

kthx.

This is what I figured.
I'm also in a neighborhood and had assumed there were likely other hoods.
I also have the theory that if there's multiple hoods then there's likely at least one rep from a scumteam in each.
I was unsure if Dragon was being awkward about having a neighborhood or a masonry, but it seemed more like a neighborhood (especially since he used the word neighborhood earlier).

btw egg - told you wake loves hoods.

[dragonspawn]

Oh screw it.

I'm a JoAT

1x Gunsmith
1x Tracker
1x Bodyguard

And I want dragonspawn killified so I can work with my neighbors on where to use my abilities.

yeah that's about as believe as monkeys coming out of my butt

why not claim sorcerer supreme or whatever last time?

[dragonspawn]

This is a long shot but Dragon, can you confirm or deny his claim about being a part of a neighbourhood?

houses claim of a neighborhood.

totally true. In fact he fake claimed mass murderer and said he wanted almost all of us dead in one of his first hood posts.

[dragonspawn]

I'm in a neighborhood called Central Windgale with dragonspawn (and some others), and I want him dead so I can participate in it, please.

kthx.

Does he have to be dead for you to participate in it? if so, that is you just wanting what you want, and not actually wanting scum lynched. If not, then why does it matter if he's in it?

Yes he has to be dead for me to participate in it. Because it's not worth having scum in the hood to try to work out the best use of my abilities.

I refuse to use any night actions until he's dead.

Period.

cause you don't have any

[dragonspawn]

I'm actually kinda with you on boon scum.

But I'm not a known successful reader of Boonskiies.

pedit: how generous of the mod.

I'll make it easier for you.

he is town

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: Bookitty

Here's a vote switch to piss off town.

didn't like her cookies?

[dragonspawn]

Taly can't address your full post but you mentioned not seeing my town game. I thought we played a newbie game together where I was town. Been a while and I don't remember the exact game

[dragonspawn]

Someone talk at me about if Sky's tone is usually like this as either alignment.

in my opinion sky is a hard read no matter what alignment she is. If anything she is probably slightly lurkier as scum but it's not an easy read regardless

[dragonspawn]

To point out you're lying.

[dragonspawn]

Observation point. People resisted Ozgin the Obvscum because it was too early to get a large wagon. Yet Dragonspawn has a wagon out of nowhere that is larger.

Noted. Total shit.

Taly, I'm looking at you in particular.

If you think that is the true essence of why I changed my vote then you are wrong. Please re-read my post where I switch. Plus, the Ozgin and Dragon wagons are both at the same amount. Stop treating as if everything other than your tunnel is worth shit. I have yet to be in a fucking situation where hard-pushing someones wagon in confidence leads to helpful things in town - especially in D1, and the idea that that is mostly all you've done so far, from aside of trying to get people to go on your wagon and putting down other alternatives that are just as valid - really does not make your push and reasoning come much from a town perspective.

Yeah, I can see that your push on Ozgin can be from genuine belief - but you aren't even 100% sure that Ozgin is scum either, and frankly, I really don't know IF you have any OTHER scum reads. I don't know what your thought process is Titus.

*Takes Deep Breath*
OK, got that out of my system. <3

Also. If you read my post, you would know - that I may or may not stay off the Ozgin wagon for good, so I don't know why you're looking at me when I'm sticking to my own formed judgments. Hell, I'm going to ISO Dragon and Ozgin so I may just go back to my vote. Is that a big deal?

595

Well for one, posts like 594 seem a bit off-handed. Not sure what you were referring to, nor meaning.

It is late where I am, tomorrow - I'm most likely going to ISO both you and Ozgin to settle my reads, I'll give my thoughts on your posts - why I think some seem really weird, and then I'll make my decision on the wagons. I may or may not change.

So far, you haven't done much to defend yourself from your wagon Dragon, which makes me a bit curious, versus Ozgin, all he's done is react to people suspecting him, and then go after Varsoon in particular. Off face-value, you guys don't seem to be towny.

I haven't done much to defend myself? How can you claim that? I've responded to every question about me that I've seen. I haven't shied away from anything. And I am denying that I am scum. What the heck do you consider defending myself?

Not only have I been defending myself, I've been asking questions and trying to figure people out.

Multiple times I've asked you to show me where I've been fake. All you pointed to was the posts where I mistakenly thought Titus post was yours. When I realized the mistake I corrected myself.

Tell me, am I this aggressive as scum? Why the heck would I be doing anything to draw attention to myself in a large game?

Actually, it's the fact that I don't perceive you as very aggressive that makes me think you haven't done much to defend yourself.

A wagon on you is growing, and a lot of your game so far is mostly asking questions and figuring people out, there hasn't been a lot of judgments, and some of your posts like : 594 and 616 - seem contrived because it really does not give info and leaves intentional room for thinking. 558 and 560 seem like small notes you're making, you don't expand on them - and you don't do much in response to people suspecting you. I don't know where you're coming from on 534

This isn't all of the posts, but these are just small things that are pinging. Also I never explicitly said you were fake because of your mistake, but since I haven't gotten a huge town sense from you so far, it feels a little weird.

I don't know, I've never seen you in a towny position before and from what I'm seeing, I'm feeling as though there are a few things in your posts that are a bit suspicious.

Also, you never answered my questions in 548

I answered 548 in 551.

I don't know what kind of aggression you are expecting from me or why I need to be aggressive to defend myself.

As for the never playing town with me I found the game we played together. You replaced out early on.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=58673

I had forgotten you were the scum I picked out in rvs. So I suppose you wouldn't be as familiar with my town game.

And I am leaving room for lots of thinking. It seems foolish to not do so in a large game on day one.

[dragonspawn]

Yes I'm going to figure out the game in 26 pages.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. But no one is that good.

dragon-no one is asking you to solve the game in 26 pages but you should have some concrete thoughts you can share by now, there's been a ton of content, your reads don't have to be set in stone this early but you should have some idea of what you think of a few of the more active players

What is your read on Titus right now or Cheetory for example?

Egg-I'll give you more detail on Bookitty later, don't let me forget. Yeah, I see your issues with Taly's off Ozgin wagon posts but you had pointed out mine a couple times as well and I was more curious what you are looking for specifically when someone is suspicious of a person and not on a wagon yet

I guess I feel I can't be on more than one wagon at a time but I should be able to express suspicion of more than one person at a time and dragon's such scum it hurts me right now, like for real. But it would not upset me much if Oz ended up being the lynch instead. Both flips are liable to be scum and both flips are going to be very informative.

I've given some concrete thoughts so far. I've been clear that I'm leaning town on ozgin so much so that people are speculating that we are scum buddies. I've been clear that I think houses game is off. I've been clear that boon is town. I'm thinking Titus is probably town.

Not sure about cheery. Maybe I'm.being overly cautious since he just murdered me in 180 and tricks the town into a win but I'm thinking he is town too.

Been clear that duck is a scum suspect.

Not sure about tso. Voting for him because I didn't like his vote and felt he ended some pressure.

Did I miss any of your questions for me wolf?

Btw I'm leaning town for you too

[dragonspawn]

I'm going to spit so much fire that I'm going to spawn you a 1-mana minion and be called a hungry dragon.

that doesn't even make sense

[dragonspawn]

Quick response on my break.

there are five people in my hood.

no masonry going on as far as I know.

I'm town. If you're paying attention you know that. If you doubt it just ask my friends. They know my town games.

[dragonspawn]

Is there a claim for a 3 person hood that I missed? Or is it the other game?

I've played a wake game where three scum were in a four person hood. Wolf was the only townie.

[dragonspawn]

Aero you ever going to start posting?

[dragonspawn]

I wonder why Dragonspawn hasn't taken a more convicted approach to the game (especially since he's apparently in a 5 person 'hood) and it's double awkward that he's got early buddying and such with people that aren't part of that hood (as far as I know).

Anyways, yeah.
I think Dragonspawn should be our D1 lynch.
Im pretty sure he's in one of the 3-man teams.


P-edit:
Sorry Cheety. I think this is the only way we'll even garner pressure on Drixx/TSO early.
Plus, this way, we can sort out our 'hoods early, which I still think is a good idea (even if other people think its dumb).

the hood has hardly been used. I encourage people to talk and suddenly I'm scum.

when I have someone I feel certain is scum, I'll push it hard. I see no reason to jump to assumptions early on.

explains the cheetory connection.

kitz and egg are he other two.

[dragonspawn]

Central Hood:
Wake, Dragonspawn, Bookitty, Kitz, Egg

Bastion Hood:
Varsoon, Cheetory, Drixx, TSO

wait. Who told you it was central?

[dragonspawn]

Ah I see

[dragonspawn]

Alright I've had enough.

Day shot at Dragonspawn

lets say any of us believe your day shot bs.

could this be any more scummy after what boon just said?

[dragonspawn]

Maybe you should look up our roles

[dragonspawn]

Maybe you should look up our roles

So you were serious about you and boon being best friends?

You thought we were lying?

It's not like we didn't leave a lot of crumbs.

[dragonspawn]

Honestly, I just wanted to pull off a fake vig claim and see if I could make it convincing.

You can all go on with your lives.

You failed. Seriously did you think anyone would buy it?

VOTE: rc

Reached question breaking point here. Either he is scum or so anti town that he is going to screw this game over.

[dragonspawn]

Oh, sweet. Game started. I skimmed real fast. Like real fast. Sup, dragon, how you doin'? Eh, house and Bookitty probably scum again.

VOTE: bookitty

I'd like to point out that this was my first post besides the /confirm one. What scum incentive would there be to call out dragon the way I did if we were scum buddies...no, we're best friends. Dragon will eventually flip best friend somewhere down the line and confirm me.

Btw you didn't need to do a full claim. I'm good at talking myself out of getting lynched.

But now that it's out I'm pretty sure wolf and egg are town because they recognized the crumbs and didn't out us.

[dragonspawn]

We weren't exactly being subtle.

Shame I would have liked to have gotten a few days before the full claim got out.

[dragonspawn]

Somebody point me somewhere.

I still think we need to lynch from our hood.

What are your thoughts on kitz and egg?

[dragonspawn]

Is what happens when you crumb a mason role.
And act strangely chummy with people and you can't explain it.
Maybe next time you get a role like that, you could like, not do either of those things? q.q

P-Edit: House you could help me kill prolapsed. Look at the guy he's so rude.

Last time I crumbled mason was a blast. Won that game and survived to the end.

I really thought the secret handshake comment that game would have made it clear. But some people pick things up and some don't. People are weird.

[dragonspawn]

ur weerd.
im sorry im being a dick i just don't want a repeat of 180 and this game already has the makings of that same level of dumbness.
And you can trust that sentiment is true regardless of what side I'm on here, because that shit wasn't even fun as scum.

Who isn't weird? I mean really.

Sorry you didn't have fun killing me.

[dragonspawn]

Wolf, I outted your hood but you were both scum. I don't feel at all bad about that. Besides it was house that crumbed it.

there is no reason to assume wake put or didn't put scum in the hoods. They could be clean or not. Probably not. But we shouldn't assume anything.

leaning town on sky. She usually lurks more.

why should we vote pb over rc or drixx or FA ot aero or tso or someone else who hasn't been contributing much? I'm not saying I'm scum reading anyone there other than rc . I'm just not seeing the reasoning for focusing on pb.

[dragonspawn]

I have a rock-solid townread on Titus by this point. She definitely tunnels as town and I see that here with no hesitation or backing off whatsoever.

Despite his fluctuating read on me, I'm pretty confident in House town based both on his actions here and in the hood thread. I don't see him directly interacting with me in the ways that he has if he were scum. I'm not AS confident here, but I'm pretty sure.

Egg is a strong townread too.

I don't care what Boonskiies and Dragonspawn are softing. I've never seen Boon this engaged, so I'm going to hold off judgment on him until later, but Dragon was legitimately pretty suspicious in the hood.

Ozgin is misrepping a bit. Both Taly and Dragon were looking elsewhere and being pretty noncommittal about Ozgin-scum or Ozgin-town for a while -- Taly was worse about it, but I had both the thread and the hood as evidence about Dragon. It looked like to me that they were both trying to deflect from the Ozgin wagon without actually taking a direct stand on it. It's not the wishy-washiness in general, it's the specific noncommittal way they addressed the Ozgin wagon that was bothering me.

I like Anen and I think he's town here (these are not correlating statements, but they are both true). Same with SilverWolf. These aren't the townreads to last the ages, but they're good enough for now.

Ozgin continues to be suspicious because imo he's trying to say that he's being caught for the wrong reasons by some people and for the right ones by others. This is a type of parsing I rarely see from town playing to a town wincon. It smacks of survivalism, something I don't think is out of character for Ozgin as town, but it's much more measured and less direct than my most recent experience of that from him.

I was suspicious in the hood for trying to engage you in conversation and actually use the hood? And you guys wonder why I thought the wagon was week even before the claim.

[dragonspawn]

I was suspicious in the hood for trying to engage you in conversation and actually use the hood? And you guys wonder why I thought the wagon was week even before the claim.

If the wagon was weak, why the claim?

I didn't make it.

[dragonspawn]

I'm finding a lot of the people who are throwing scumreads onto me without doing anything about it highly suspect.

Why? There are seven scum in this game. If they find you suspect and are voting for another of their choices they think are more likely scum why would that be suspect in the least?

[dragonspawn]

How come no one has really addressed why we should vote pb over some others I asked a while ago?

[dragonspawn]

Wolf, I outted your hood but you were both scum. I don't feel at all bad about that. Besides it was house that crumbed it.

there is no reason to assume wake put or didn't put scum in the hoods. They could be clean or not. Probably not. But we shouldn't assume anything.

leaning town on sky. She usually lurks more.

why should we vote pb over rc or drixx or FA or aero or tso or someone else who hasn't been contributing much? I'm not saying I'm scum reading anyone there other than rc . I'm just not seeing the reasoning for focusing on pb.

Per Titus request

[dragonspawn]

@FAQ2: Please read the thread or, at least, look through my ISO.
It should be -painfully- obvious why I am against a D1 Ozgin lynch.

@Dragonspawn: I don't think your alternative suggestions of House or Bookitty are worthwhile.
I do think Kitz and Laladucks could use a (or another) wagon.

@Drixx: I'm not /scum/reading you. I'm saying you deserve pressure. You're not scum for being absent, but you certainly aren't town-read for it. I want to have a better handle on my read of you. I'm also not chainsawing for Boonskies, yo. You're thinking of Dragonspawn, maybe?

I'd actually be fine with a laladucks wagon. The last wagon was diffused with laladucks coming back to game apologetic while the dragons wagon blew up, but
Laladucks really hasn't done much of anything since then.
:l

Did I suggest house and bookitty?

[dragonspawn]

Think masons just without a chat

[dragonspawn]

You mean boon and I are friends? Who would have guessed it.

[dragonspawn]

Varsoon, you know that the Vanilla Townie=Citizen thing is also in the first post, right?

Bookitty, it's like you don't even read my posts.
Please, Bookitty, actually read my posts.
I mention SEVERAL times that the VT=Citizen thing is in the OP.
That was, like, the crux of what I was saying.
Ugggh.


@Dragonspawn: Oh? Maybe that was Boonskies. I've been mixing you two up lately but that's because I'm fairly certain you're both full of shit.
Like, I -really- wish I could push through a lynch on one or both of you, because I think your claim is terrible, your play is bad, and we've gotten nowhere in the last 20 pages thanks to all of it.

I had no plan on claiming today. I'm not willing to say we've gotten Nowhere.

[dragonspawn]

Welcome in delta

[dragonspawn]

Egg, you forgot his blatant fish of me as well, as if my suspicions on Ozgin would be more or less valid if I was a PR or VT.

He was fishing you too? Did I miss that?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: varsoon

The role hunting bothers me.

[dragonspawn]

His play has been irking me all day but I haven't been sure. The role fishing is much more serious though.

[dragonspawn]

Sorry Titus. Still not seeing scum ozgin here.

[dragonspawn]

scum

to save you time me and boonskies are claimed best friends. Wasn't my plan to claim but its out there and I figured I'd save you some time.

[dragonspawn]

What is the vote count?

[dragonspawn]

Top 3 Town

Boonskiies
dragonspawn
Egg

Top 3 Scum

SilverWolf
FA_Q2
Bookitty

Next 3 Town

House
Titus
Aneninen

Next 3 Scum

Taly
Kitz
Varsoon

Obviously I expect my town reads to be more accurate than the scumreads since there are twice as many town as scum.

how come prolapsed isn't on your scum list when you are voting for him?

[dragonspawn]

@lala-Please explain why you are voting for Prolapsed and say he's probs scum but he's not in any of your scumreads in your latest reads list.

looks like we had similar thoughts

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: lala

going back to my original gut read. It just doesn't make sense to make lists and leave the person you are voting for out of your top six scum choices.

[dragonspawn]

Why does the Lala wagon go through a boom in votes the second I vote Ozgin? D:

cause you at scum together?;)

probably cause that's when duck gave reads.

[dragonspawn]

Wow. No one believes I'm town. This is dismal.
What are you guys gonna do when I flip town? Because I will.

if by chance you flip scum I'll just analyze any nk data and continue scum hunting.

but considering your game play so far I'm not going to lose sleep if I'm wrong.

[dragonspawn]

How would you know ducks is a mislynch?

[dragonspawn]

Prolapsed

concerning coaching:

why would Titus coach duck at all outside the scum chat if they were scum partners? And what do you mean by coaching?

[dragonspawn]

How would you know ducks is a mislynch?

This kind of dumbassery is what makes me want to lynch you.

Even the scum don't know if a lynch is a mislynch.

exactly my point. Even the scum wouldnt know. So don't you think it's odd to make the claim?

[dragonspawn]

Anen, if you are town gtfo lala and recognize drowning newbtown when you see it.

Large games are a lot for new players to take in. Read her posts in context.

And that goes for the rest of you idiots jumping on the easiest excuse to vote, too. That kind of shit is what makes it so damned easy for scum.

Wake the hell up and get back to lynching scum.

bad logic. Last time I gave a newb the benefit of the doubt after seeing evidence of them being scum, you terrorized town much longer than you needed to

[dragonspawn]

Anen, if you are town gtfo lala and recognize drowning newbtown when you see it.

Large games are a lot for new players to take in. Read her posts in context.

And that goes for the rest of you idiots jumping on the easiest excuse to vote, too. That kind of shit is what makes it so damned easy for scum.

Wake the hell up and get back to lynching scum.

bad logic. Last time I gave a newb the benefit of the doubt after seeing evidence of them being scum, you terrorized town much longer than you needed to

Fine. Where's the scum motivation? Show that to me and I'll acquiesce.

Until you do... until you

can

... stfu and move on.

the scum motivation for what exactly? Ducks game?

faking reads? Can't imagine why scum would fake reads. Oh wait, I know. To try to look town.

[dragonspawn]

House, your strong-arm play puts a really sour taste in my mouth, but you'll also very likely be sorted out overnight.
What I'm not sure of is why you're wagoning Ozgin.
I'd like you to elaborate on that.

That's an easy one.

I'm sheeping Titus because I'm completely disinterested in d1 of larges.

The only reason I care about the ducky wagon is because I hate seeing those I consider a friend get lynched over idiotic excuses.

And frankly, I don't give a damn what my play leaves in your mouth.

This right here makes me want to lynch la la. You are not this bad House. You don't give a shit about your friends in games being wagoned and lynched and that's a terrible reason not to want to lynch a person. You want to give her another day and then what? Say she's scum. You just gave her a night to pull her scum shit. That's just plain stupid.

You claim to be completely disinterested in larges and sheeping Titus because you don't care about this game but here you are so certain that la la is town that you want to give her a pass because she's your friend.

la la has been making excuses and throwing a pity party for herself all game, she's been doing the "you are suspicious of me and must be scum because scum always try to mislynch me due to my shitty play", "I know I'm bad, I deserve to be lynched, blah blah blah" AtE. She voted Prolapsed for absolutely no reason and then didn't even include him in her top 6 scum reads. She defended Ozgin and said she sorted him as town and doesn't want him lynched but didn't put him in her top 6 town reads. She OMGUS'd anen and FA for pushing her.

You know what? Being on V/LA, I don't have time for this shit.

VOTE: la la duckie

excellent point. House keeps saying he is completely disinterested in day 1. But he has been interested enough to push my wagon, fake claim, and then fight back against ducks wagon.

id expect someone disinterested in day 1 to be playing more like tso or drixx at this point.

makes me want to see ducks flip now to see whether we should look into house a bit more tomorrow.

away too much protest for someone not interested.

and the fact that he didn't want to participate in the hood till I was dead has me uncomfortable as well.

[dragonspawn]

You're still pushing this newb thing. Newbs can be scum. You of all people should k ow this. You were scum your first game. I was scum my first game. Sky was scum her first game. Being newb doesn't mean you aren't scum.

and we aren't talking about ducks first game anyway. Are we supposed to ignore piss poor logic just because you're saying she is a newb?

how many games does it take before you know you actually need to play the game?

[dragonspawn]

So much for your confidence is ozgin being scum. You're so sure he is scum you're going to vote for a person you whose town claim you believe.

if I'm playing so scummy what is so difficult about addressing any of my points? Is a vote for me going to really make me back off considering all that's happened and the likelihood that your vote will turn into a wagon on me?

the only motivation I can see here is you're going to be so absurd that people will start thinking he has to be town because scum would never do that.

[dragonspawn]

If the scum has been coasting all game and his or her partners are getting nervous and telling them to post a list why would we expect it to be genuine?

but lets say the list in genuine. Then in my opinion the vote isn't. And I don't buy the it's between oz and prolapsed defense because we aren't close enough to the deadline to ignore scum read to vote for someone else.

besides as house keeps reminding us, ducks is a newb, maybe the fake list is because she is unfamiliar with multiball (I have no knowledge of her previous experience here).

the fact is something is off here.

earlier in the game I asked Titus what we should think if a player is not scum hunting when even the scum should be scum hunting. Duck is doing just that.

[dragonspawn]

I've been reading the arguments here and in the hood about ozgin being scum. The arguments have been better articulated for me. So I'm feeling more confused. My head is saying he could be scum but my heart keeps telling me he is going to flip town. I'm going to think.about it more. But I'm hoping I can figure it out if I think it out.

I would want a vote count before serious considering getting on board. There have been some vote shifts and I want to know where we are at.

[dragonspawn]

Well I'm glad I didn't just throw a vote on ozgin Willy nilly. Don't want to hammer yet but I'm willing to hammer at some point. Oddly enough I've been thinking what Varsoon just said, this lynch will be happening at some point.

So I guess ozgin should probably officially claim at this point.

And yes wolf I'd like to see oz respond.

[dragonspawn]

Intent to hammer.

I thought the original intent statement was obvious but to clear things up I wil hammer.

won't be soon though. I'm starting work.

[dragonspawn]

Damn, then we could lynch both Kitz AND Varsoon before night. My best dreams.

Let's lynch everyone while we're at it.

SK?

[dragonspawn]

Troll post incoming:

Great, you me, Boo, Taly form the female Alphas of Win.

House, Dragon and Boon can be honorary women.

my wife would probably disagree.

[dragonspawn]

Fuck. Leave for one measly day and the hammer is in before I get to even comment.

see that's why I declared intent. I had no intention of doing it today. Figured people would want to say things. But my buddy just pulled the stool out from under oz

[dragonspawn]

*slits wrists faster*

dude, slitting your wrists won't get wake to flip you. Especially if boon and I use our special awesome friendship power to keep you from dying.

[dragonspawn]

Only one kill? Not bad town.

VOTE: wolf

[dragonspawn]

Cheetory feel free to be dick to me. I still cannot believe that Ozgin was town. At least my Varsoon read was right though.

There's not likely to be another red scum in Varsoon's hood (but it is not impossible), just due to odds. Anyone who is in that hood, sharing his stances and positions would be good so we can review them.

Maybe not likely but we shouldn't just dismiss the chance outright. Or are we forgetting wakes fire and ice where we had an entire team of ice scum in a hood?

[dragonspawn]

Sokay.
My sense of humour doesn't translate well to text.
People have assumed that I'm being an asshole to them sometimes when I'm just trying to relate to them with humour and it's discouraging. :c

Anyways.
I will try to get to reading once I come down from the rush I'm getting from this flip.

P-Edit: Dragon im town tho stop being paranoid of me.

I am not paranoid of you. But you aren't the only person in the hood are you?

[dragonspawn]

Surprised it's taken so long for someone to question me on me.

Do you guys want more discussion and a chance for Oz to speak again before the day ends?

I have no objections to the hammer.

These two posts pinged me hard at the end of the day. This is not town wolf. Town wolf careful about lynching. She doesn't rush them. And she wouldn't be asking whether we should let him speak.again, she would.be insisting he claim before we hammer.

But she isn't. She is almost eager for the Hammer. Even odder considering she wasn't scum reading ozgin at the time.

And now she completely ignores my vote with her while posting an in-depth analysis of varsoon. Yeah this isnt feeling right at all.

[dragonspawn]

Cheet,

You should have agreed with him on fake claiming masons. Then had him do so and said, not at all.

[dragonspawn]

My read on wolf has nothing to do with you. Especially when you haven't given reasons for vibes. If you have a case post it. Don't try to ride coattails on mine.

[dragonspawn]

I would heavily caution against making any assumptions about neighborhoods at all, really.

Especially in a wake game. Neighborhoods are completely randomised. We should just hunt scum and not make assumptions based on their hood.

If cheetory does turn out to be scum, I doubt it would be on Varsoon's team though. I doubt two scum buddies would be act in the hood with the other members inactive. Doesn't make sense to me since it just means they are more likely to get caught.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is an opposing scum in the hood. Targeting Varsoon may be from things he has said in the hood more than in just the game.

[dragonspawn]

My read on wolf has nothing to do with you. Especially when you haven't given reasons for vibes. If you have a case post it. Don't try to ride coattails on mine.

hah
I don't want anything to do with your coattails

You're previous post suggests otherwise.

[dragonspawn]

Well, not unless you are mafia with him:)

[dragonspawn]

It occurs to me with the last comment that one mafia team had doc protection as a possibility. It seems logical that the other team would too.

Perhaps I jumped the gun on assuming it was good for town that we only had one kill. Because maybe the scum were protected by their doc or worse by a town doc if there is one.

[dragonspawn]

Top 3 Scum

SilverWolf
FA_Q2
Bookitty

SW ~ her early vote on me was alright. But something about her posts just makes me uneasy, I can't really explain it.
FA_Q2 ~ I ISO'd him and just realised I've missed quite a few of his posts. Well... His case on me actually isn't terrible, even though his conclusion that I'm scum is incorrect. But the thing is, based on my shitty play so far I'm an easy target for a mislynch. In all of my completed games, scum has used that strategy as well. He's capitalising on my scummy sounding posting. FYI, just cause I sound scummy doesn't mean I'm scum, alright.
Bookitty ~ rawr guilty? Actually, I'm doubting my read on her looking through her ISO. If scum, she's really good. But it was based on weird feelings and yeah. That credibility...

This is the extent of ducks wolf read yesterday.

[dragonspawn]

Moreover, if duck is serious about wolf being a top scum read, why has she voted for wolf at all?

[dragonspawn]

Between the two of them, House looks a lot more scummy than Kitz. I mean, House is lying and throwing as much confusion as he possibly can into the game, and then in that process claims to be a day cop and have an innocent on Kitz. I'm not sure that "wat" is much different than my response would be given the context. It's maybe a slight scum tell, but it just makes me take notice and want to pay a little more attention to Kitz at the moment.

What confuses me is why House isn't a much larger focus at the moment, given his ISO.

I tend to agree. Especially considering his joat claim. I'm fairly confident its pure bs, but consider we have one scum joat chances are we may have another.

[dragonspawn]

Well, that was a solid night.

Also a possibility that Blue team kills odd nights, Red kills evens.

If anyone needs me, VOTE: laladuck

first, why would wake give one team that disadvantage?

second, how do you know the other team is blue? Or did I miss something?

[dragonspawn]

Kitz-I explained those comments and why I said what I did. You and dragon misrepped me badly. ISO me and go find my response.

really? Because I have been reading all your posts and this is the first time I've seen you even acknowledge the fact that I'm voting for you or made a case on you. I'll go double check though.

[dragonspawn]

Surprised it's taken so long for someone to question me on me.

Do you guys want more discussion and a chance for Oz to speak again before the day ends?

I have no objections to the hammer.

These two posts pinged me hard at the end of the day. This is not town wolf. Town wolf careful about lynching. She doesn't rush them. And she wouldn't be asking whether we should let him speak.again, she would.be insisting he claim before we hammer.

But she isn't. She is almost eager for the Hammer. Even odder considering she wasn't scum reading ozgin at the time.

And now she completely ignores my vote with her while posting an in-depth analysis of varsoon. Yeah this isnt feeling right at all.

I saw your vote but you gave zero reasons for it. I'm not exactly sure what you wanted me to respond to but I figured I'd ask you about it when you are online today. You took those quotes of mine out of context dragon and jumped to conclusions without even asking me about them.

No, I wasn't scumreading Ozgin, nor was I voting for him but I was starting to waver on him some at the end there. I was the one asking how many votes he had and wanted to see where he was at and that's when someone posted he was at L-1. My first comment was asking how we should handle the L-1. He had already claimed and given his reads. His lynch was inevitable but the votes were piling up on him pretty quick at the end there I didn't want someone coming in and willy-nilly throwing another vote down without discussion. I said I was o.k. with the hammer after you had already declared intent to hammer dragon and said you were going to wait until Ozgin spoke and you got off work. I was not expecting Boon to hammer there. That comment was in response to this from Skybird:

I've been following the thread and I have no problem with an Ozgin lynch.

And shortly after T S O posted this:

I'm here, and I have no objections to the hammer. It's a scum lynch.

If you have a problem with my comments dragon, what about these and why didn't you ask me about my comments and what I meant by them before voting for me?

Of course I'm going to analyze Varsoon. It's a scum flip. I would still appreciate feedback on that from someone please.

Kitz vote sheeping you seemed opportunistic and I don't really like lala's saying she's suspicious of me but not voting either.

looks like I did miss it. Game goes fast sometimes.

I'll have to think about that.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: rc

you all know my reasons. And id like some answers.

[dragonspawn]

I didn't see anything protecting wolf is houses comments.

[dragonspawn]

Hmm, whaddya think that scum tried to kill me last night, hence why they all feel I'm off but cannot articulate why...

And the doc protected you?

[dragonspawn]

It's possible that you were targeted. We have to keep in mind that two nks failed, not just one. We have a sk out there too.

Could have easily overlapped with targeting Varsoon. Could have been you but with me and boon outted and house making a claim you wouldn't be at the top of my list for kills if I were scum. Especially after you funneled oz yesterday

[dragonspawn]

That's assuming we have cops and we don't lynch them before the cop tells us anything.

[dragonspawn]

Between the two of them, House looks a lot more scummy than Kitz. I mean, House is lying and throwing as much confusion as he possibly can into the game, and then in that process claims to be a day cop and have an innocent on Kitz. I'm not sure that "wat" is much different than my response would be given the context. It's maybe a slight scum tell, but it just makes me take notice and want to pay a little more attention to Kitz at the moment.

What confuses me is why House isn't a much larger focus at the moment, given his ISO.

I tend to agree. Especially considering his joat claim. I'm fairly confident its pure bs, but consider we have one scum joat chances are we may have another.

Really?

House does this all the time - draw's the NK when he can take advantage of it. I thought that was BLATANTLY clear yesterday but really could not comment on it because that would be rather shitty and damage his ability to do so.

It seems to have worked – we are missing kills last night and I would bet at least one of those is because house was targeted due to his role claim.


I also think all this speculation that the scum teams have the same roles is rather useless. I do not see a single reason to make such an assumption – particularly in a wake game.

I'm very much aware that house will fake claim to draw a night kill. He insists he isn't faking. I see no reason to assume the scum teams are unbalanced.

It's something we should consider.

[dragonspawn]

So Titus said it first and is questioning why rc said it. Interesting.

nd tso?

[dragonspawn]

Is anyone voting for you yet? And you want to claim already?

[dragonspawn]

Honestly, when I went to bed I wasn't planning to vote Titus. Quite frankly I was willing to chalk it up to an honest mistake.

But that excuse is just so bad. auto correct? Seriously? When blue fits the context perfectly? And there is no attempt to even explain what word she "meant".

No Titus is scum and got caught. That's the only way that pathetic excuse makes sense

VOTE: titus

[dragonspawn]

So did you kill anen la la?

[dragonspawn]

Did one of your buddies?

[dragonspawn]

I'd like to hear more from FA today. I am a little suspicious of him but I'm not 100% sure of anything with him.

I kind of taly at the moment, sorry buddy I know you find Him scummy.

I'm still unsure of house and wolf. And I still don't like ducks or rc at all.

[dragonspawn]

There isn't a second serial killer drixx. We know there was only one from the set up. We just need to get the five remaining scum

wolf, while I don't see any reason you shouldn't have time to go through isos it seems a bit off to me that you ask for time today after we questioned you yesterday about rushing ozgins lynch. I find myself wanting to lean town on you but something's holding me back.

[dragonspawn]

Would you pricks stop roleblocking me?

I tried to gunsmith Kitz.

VOTE: house

you slipped bro.

you claimed you commuted yesterday. So how can they role block you again?

[dragonspawn]

I find the reaction from house more interesting than the original statement.

I mean doesn't house do outrageous things to see the reactions? And yet he is surprised at a reasonable interpretation of what he said.

rc stop with the crap

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: rc

dont think house's outrage is feigned. Why? Because mine isn't and I know house well enough that he would be pissed in the same situation

[dragonspawn]

I mean, yeah.
You weren't really a jerk to House.
You were kind of a jerk to Silver though.
:/

And which reaction?

its being a jerk to wolf that has house and I pissed

[dragonspawn]

Taly and lalalala are scummates.

Discuss.

Also, yes. Lets get back on track, people. ScumHouse will figure itself out later. Vote Lala or Taly.

._.

So will you not scumread Taly when I flip town?

Cause that's what will happen.

Think Taly is scum.

Reasons later.

VOTE: Taly

tallyho!

your reasons are always later.

[dragonspawn]

Anyone else feeling off about delta not really getting into the game till now?

[dragonspawn]

Drixx,

Boon is definitely town. We are best buddies this game.

I still am wary of house. Not sure he is scum but I still don't believe the claim.

Still thing we need to lynch rc and ducks.

Not 100% sure on wolf. But I'm leaning town more again. But she's gotten better so I'm not reading her as easily.

Fa, start talking more. I want to get a read on you. You too delta.

[dragonspawn]

@Dragon

Who do you think is more dangerous right now?

RC, House, or Lala?

Honestly I have no clue. I know house better. So I know if he is scum he is dangerous

But I don't know rc or ducks at all. So I'm not sure how to rate them.

[dragonspawn]

Will be gone for the day.

[dragonspawn]

Back. Going to catch up in a bit.

[dragonspawn]

No one besides House who is scum and trying to act irrational to push people off his scent thinks that there's any sort of logical grouping of me and Cheetory6.

Cheeto's on the other scumteam though.

Other scum to? Are you admitting you are scum?