New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[Cheetory6]

Confirm.

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Aeronaut
Help me kill this guy.
Please.

[Cheetory6]

I just used a randomizer and Aeronaut's name came up twenty times.

[Cheetory6]

Well he joined this game on the 11th in the queue.
Two days isn't that long of a time to be a little AWOL. I'm sure he's fine.

[Cheetory6]

Now, do you wanna help me kill him before he gets back?
Wouldn't that be fun?

[Cheetory6]

ALRIGHT SILVER.
I'M HOLDING YOU TO THAT.

[Cheetory6]

I think you did your job wrong as an egg.
Just saying.

[Cheetory6]

Are you nervous about a massmurderer because you're worried it'll ruin your scumgame, Kitz?

[Cheetory6]

@dragon, scum tend to make generalizations.
..


It's page 3 House hasn't obvtowned yet. He's probably also scum.

VOTE: Skybird
Choo choo.

[Cheetory6]

Ozgin. Listen.
I'm a trustworthy guy.
Get on board the trust-me-train and get this skybird wagon out the muthafuckin station.

ALSO WHY AREN'T YOU HAPPY TO BE IN ANOTHER GAME WITH ME.
UGH.

[Cheetory6]

She's cool.
Can you please explain why you aren't voting?
Or, more importantly, why you're not voting this skybird person?

[Cheetory6]

Because it exists.
Do you want me to bullshit some reasons?
*ahem*
"Song's response to silverwolf is both generic and comes across like scum trying to play it safe. We should kill this scum immediately. Your vote is required to make this happen."

[Cheetory6]

Also <3 Boo. With a playerlist like this I'm hoping my usual melodramatic bullshit won't be a thing
Also also, you're feline-ish correct?
Cats are all about killing birds. Care to join this super duper awesome wagon on policy of sky being a bird?

P-Edit: I'm a trustworthy person Ozgin. Just look at me.
Look into my eyes o.o

[Cheetory6]

Also, I have no idea what a Cassandra Truth is Kitz. You'll have to forgive me/possibly explain it to me.

[Cheetory6]

Taly, do you think it's weird that House hasn't obvtowned yet given how much he's posted?
Because quite frankly I am quite suspicious of him for it.
Definitely.
Truthfully.
Suspicious.

[Cheetory6]

Cheet, I have one games worth of meta on your under my belt, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture for you. I got my eyes on your eyes!

But Ozgin.
We've been through so much together.
How can you not trust me after all of the bonding we did in a scum PT!?!?

P-Edit: I think there's three atm.
Hoping for more, soon.

[Cheetory6]

I'm messing around about a scumread on House. Mostly poking fun at all of the people being concerned about him when he hasn't even posted.
I'm being serious about a vote on Skybird in many ways though.

[Cheetory6]

Hi Kitz. How much do you like RVS?
How long do you want to stay in it?

Skybird came in, said a single thing, made a complete jokevote with no momentum on it and pced.
Let's get them talking and let's move the conversation in the direction of something productive.
Boom.
Sheep the vote or make a better one.

[Cheetory6]

Dragon, you're voting TSO for a generic tell which sucks when applied to him specifically.
Are you expecting me to sheep your vote?
Make it better or make a better one.

[Cheetory6]

Varsoon is doing the right thing.
Don't penalize him for it.

[Cheetory6]

Page five and House hasn't obvtowned yet.
Guys he's practically scumclaiming.

[Cheetory6]

@SW, I mean, I don't like Ozgin's unvote.
But hey, I feel like I'm going to suck at reading Ozgin until shit hits the fan so shrugs all around.

I tend to think cheetory is town at this point. He was alot more lurky last game.

I definitely was lurkier that game. Doesn't mean I'm always lurky as scum. I'm also o.o-ing you for not being more paranoid of me right now.

Everyone knows that "Cheetors" never prosper, so going to be taking a long hard look at Cheetory. That sounds suspiciously like some kind of mangled plural of "Cheetor" which is obviously an intentional attempt to hide "Cheater". I'm on to you Cheatory!

You got me, I'm the town cheater. I know who all the scum are. /smirk

There's content to sift through, which means I should probably actually think and write notes and stop being lazy.

[Cheetory6]

Also, drix, there's two problems with your RVS vote.
i) There was no vote.
ii) The vote that you didn't make wasn't on a wagon.

[Cheetory6]

I intend to.
Been trying to make a habit of taking notes earlier on in games to keep my thoughts coherent. Especially useful in bigger games.

[Cheetory6]

Unvotes are showy.
Like "oo man look at how much I'm not voting for this person anymore" looks like you're trying to show everyone something rather than just voting someone new and being like "I like this vote better".

Egg got on House

This made me laugh.

[Cheetory6]

It's not even a good analogy.
You're lucky I don't vote people for using bad analogies.
>:c

[Cheetory6]

Saying that a child could grow up to become a villain isn't the same.
It'd be a better analogy if like if you cloned a villain and knew that said child would have clear potential to become a terrible villain. House has a proven history of being a bastardman. He's not a blank slate like you're trying to make him out to be. And it's also being dismissive of the experiences that other people have had with him. Also, you can't say that I'm riding the popular opinion because I'm not calling you scummy for it, so calm down jeze like wow man get your knickers outta a knot or something.

Now stop asking me things so I can finish packing and then start making actually useful posts.
c:

[Cheetory6]

Hi Silverwolf! Good to see you too.

Gotta do a little OMGUS!

Still leaning that this vote is awkward in its justification.

So do you think House is scum this game?

Completely empty question. Seems like she might be trying to play up House's reputation: "I am so so very paranoid of this person this game wow golly look at me I am definitely town because I am genuinely paranoid rite guyz?"

Cheetory, you don't like jokes?

No.
Jokes are for COMEDIANS.

I want to say that it feels like sky not analyzing her own wagon comes across as her trying to ignore it until it goes away, but I'd be interested in discussing that with someone who might disagree/agree.

This post makes me go hmmm. How many games have you played Kitz?

Of all things to go after, this seems easyyyyy. Though, the followup on this has a little bit of what seems like townparanoia to it:

Kitz, from your join date I would have thought that you knew what that meant. Just trying to figure out if you are scum trying to drop a fake towntell.

I think it's the fact that she's trying to figure out whether Kitz is doing what she's doing before labeling it as scummy.
Tinfoilhatme is all like "but Cheetory scum can scumhunt in this game". You're right tinfoilhatme. Thanks for your input and for reminding me why I hate multiball .

Her switch to Kitz could be motivated by seeing how much hate the Housewagon is getting.
Overall, leaning scum, but not strongly.

skybird

[Cheetory6]

Lotta fluff in Kitz's first few posts.
Not really surprising coming out of how she was playing at the end of NY180 though so shrugs all around.

Hmm, it says that it

does

include two non-normal roles. Better not be another mass murderer.

Oh well. Too early to speculate.
VOTE: Boonskiies

This RVS vote comes pretty late. :/

A. RVS is stupid, soooo, dislike.
B. Zero quantoseconds.
C. Better vote on Boonski. Dat ISO

Bleh. I dislike that she's agreeing that RVS is dumb while sitting on a 100% RVS vote on someone who hasn't even posted a single time at the time of this post. I think I find it more annoying from a playstyle kind of manner and am not really feeling anything from it in terms of alignment.

I think I actually kind of like the vote on House coming like three minutes after song's. I think scum would be a little nervous about being seen as bandwagoning. As dumb as I think the Housewagon is, this vote at least is less boring than others.
And then she softpushes Ozgin while sitting on an empty pressurevote. Back to nullpile you go!

But other than that, I think it's suspicious the way he makes a scene about "Citizen" this early. In fact if that's the reality, Scum just got -1 out of "process of elemination" list for PR and the opposing scum.

What exactly is it that you find suspicious about it? Can you try to articulate it a little more clearly?

However, I'd like to poke on the statement of "I expect everyone to be scumhunting."

So why don't you?

@Kitz

, talk to me about why you like your Housevote. Why is it better than an Ozginvote or a ProlapsedBrainvote?

Kitz

>

skybird

[Cheetory6]

"I trust Cheetory" = lol.

VOTE: Varsoon Let's make waves, shall we?

I'm a little wary that you didn't probe to try and find out Varsoon's intentions at all with a question or something to accompany this vote. I like the seriousness of this vote so early, but I dislike that it looks like you're not actually trying to sort what Varsoon is doing here. I'm leaning that this is lazy over scummy, but I'd like you to talk at me a little bit about what was going through your head here.

The followup on this where you elaborate with Titus is okay, but the focus seems a lot more oriented towards explaining yourself and seems almost self-centered rather than actually interested in progressing the gamestate or sorting Varsoon.

But I have trust issues because I have a broken home life and a bad history with women, so I'm probably just being paranoid.

The hedging here is a littttttle scummy.

Ignoring citizen-claim-stuff for now.

The unvote on Varsoon just because he thinks the Housewagon is sketchy is weird. I feel like him finding the Housewagon sketchy shouldn't invalidate his vote so I don't understand why the unvote is at all necessary.

what makes me inclined to against Kitz more than lala is the fact that it was literally 3 minutes after Sky, and that irks me.

Why is this scummy?

@lala - Instead of apathetically shrugging off votes against you, why not do me a favor - Tell me why you think House is probably scum.

I guess I like that he's at least asking lala a question, even if said question seems pretty... empty. Heh. I guess it does eventually go somewhere so maybe I'm just feeling nitpicky atm.

I figured it'd be hypocritical of me to vote someone near RVS with a pseudo-shitty read right before I made reads and called other peoples' votes pseudo-shitty, you know?

Explain this more clearly please.

Lala, I concede that he did post in a Mini-Game, but it's still possible that he only had time to make one post and, rather than delve into a fiery large normal, decided to just plonk it down on a mini game?

@Titus: This type of language? What the hell, are you scared of rhetoric? Are you afraid of me putting holes in lala's logic by demonstrating the same logic on an extreme?

I think it's a little scummy that you seem to care more about poking holes in lala's logic than it seems you do about actually sorting her. Why is scumlala more likely to vote House for those reasons than townlala?

@Cheetory, How isn't it? I think you're just riding the popular opinion that it's unpleasant, not that it doesn't do what it's designed to.

Why were you so quick to sling shit at me for making a joke comment on an analogy?

Meh, I'm feeling scumhunty tonight. I'm trying to change up my town game, because apparently when I was scum in 180 and posted long and thought-out reads I was read as town, so I figure that I might as well do the same thing when I'm actually town. My win-rate as town is literally 0%, and my win-rate for scum is literally 100%. I'd like to change that.

This feels townish.

even if it's true I couldn't have known that because you never stated that.

This is why it's problematic that you postured on a vote centered around this instead of asking him about it. Because now it looks a lot like you're shifting the blame onto him for not answering a question that you never asked him about it.

Brain is going fuzzy reading Titus/Ozgin interactions.
Taking break from reading for now.

@Cheetory - A ProlapsedBrain vote? Whaaa?

Sh. I'm doing a thing don't butt in.

Ozginread-pending-responses/engagement with me.

[Cheetory6]

Because Varsoon hadn't reacted or replied at all, and I thought it'd be more worth-while to use my vote on someone that I had a better case on. I wanted to get out of the RVS, and my lone vote on the non-responsive looked like just that.

Why wouldn't his lack of response make your vote stronger/give you reason to want to push him more? Wouldn't dodginess come across as scummy to you?

Also, could you explain the hedging thing to me?

It's hedgey because you make points about people being scummy in your eyes and then walk it back with a joke about how you're probably just being paranoid. It basically brings you around full circle and makes it so you've said not much of consequence which could come across as coasty or showy.

In multiball with daytalk, I feel like Sky could have posted in a scum QT something like, "Hey lets go after House" and Kitz (and/or lala) could have been like, "K" and then just hopped on for no reason.

Why would they do that though?

Well lala's response to my question was pretty much, "Oh because I'm scared of him, he might be bad later on, who knows?" Furthermore, I know that House is a scary player, both in town and scum. He could be a scum just as scared of townHouse (hehe, townhouse) or opposing-team scumHouse.

Do you think scared scum votes for someone they're scared of?

But my issue with him claiming he was trusting your methods as opposed to your vote was that he didn't articulate it, and then he used it as a defense against my vote that was already retracted.

Was I entirely open about why I made my vote from the get-go? If not, why am I not under the same level of scrutiny as Varsoon by you?

[Cheetory6]

What was the deal with your Aeronaut stuff earlier in the game?

Same thing I was doing with sky, just with less of an actual reason.

[Cheetory6]

I don't really consider it RVS.

Your Boon vote wasn't RVS?

I definitely think scared scum try to do away with people they are scared of, one way or another. Whether or not it be by voting, night killing, or whatever. Think about how terrified we were as scum when TSO was making waves. Skilled players should be relatively revered, in my opinion.

Here's my issue. You're telling me that you think lala and Kitz were hoping with their third and fourth votes on a wagon in a day cycle where hammer takes 11 people on the first day of the cycle that the momentum they would throw on there was going to absolutely 100% bring House crashing down into his early grave?
That's the intention you get out that?
Because I don't get that at all. And I'm not even saying that they're town because of it. And and I find it hard to believe it's what you think that they were doing.
I think you had more merit with your Varsoon vote than you do here [even if I disagreed with the premise of it] which again, begs the question of why you felt the need to unvote Varsoon and switch to someone else for reasons that feel more or less kind of forced.

[Cheetory6]

absolutely 100%

I'm being lame here, but you get my point. You're a fan of exaggeration as we've established

[Cheetory6]

If they're scared of him, what's the one thing that they can do to get his full undivided attention when he starts paying attention to the game?
[hint: they're doing it]

[Cheetory6]

Funny you say you don't like jokes. You definitely threw several out before you started scumhunting. Not sure why that is OK for you and not other people.

I never joke around.

The wagon on me is an RVS wagon. Why would I get paranoid over the wagon or analyze it at this point?

I've made it clear my vote is serious at the very least. Ozgin has established that he thought that Varsoon's vote on you was scummy, do you have no thoughts on that wrt Ozgin's push or Varsoon's vote?
Tell me about why you think Kitz is scummy in more detail.

[Cheetory6]

Uh, letting other people fight about their nonsense, and sitting back and cruising by?

Gosh I just have to be upfront, don't I :c
Okay. So, what do you think House is going to look at first when he starts reading the game?
In my head, I imagine him first going "there is a wagon on me. Hm." and then looking at those votes. If lala and Kitz are afraid of House and they're scum, why wouldn't they be worried about him taking a closer look at them because of their votes on him? Why would they need to forge reasoning so hard for why they think someone is scum if they're capable of hunting for a second scumteam if they were scum?

[Cheetory6]

I'm trying to decide whether Ozgin being this irritable is more likely to be coming from town. Someone from last game who I'd prefer to have not been on my scumteam with because that may be influencing my perception of him {though I wouldn't mind talking with Silver about it if she's interested} can you tell me whether you thought Ozgin was a lot more lax last game even under a lot of pressure with being lynched?

His citizen claim is bad but I don't really care to talk about it and I don't think it's necessarily as much of a smoking gun as people are making it out to be.

VOTE: dragonspawn
oo bb i wann get yoo.

That's what Cheet does as scum with another scum group. I've seen it.

Egg stop being paranoid about me.

[Cheetory6]

Yup.
She's the only scum in the game.
Still moving today so softposts for now.

[Cheetory6]

At least one of them is scum;

Why.

I like where my RVS vote ended up.

Tell me more about this.

[Cheetory6]

I'm on the dragonwagon though

[Cheetory6]

I mean.
You'll be unlucky if you take a list of any seven people and not get scum.

[Cheetory6]

scum tend to announce they are not scum at the beginning.

This reasoning looks showy and I have a really hard time believing that dragon actually believes that something like this is going to be used to catch scumTSO of all people.
You just saw how convincing TSO can be as scum, right? Was this vote more just to apply pressure to see how TSO would react than it was because you actually believed how scummy TSO is, or what?

forth on a wagon in rvs or close to it. Like that for scum better

Andddd the odds of his TSOvote being for pressure goes down because he's switching votes for more really surface level reasoning. Why is scum more likely to join a wagon in RVS than town?

I tend to think cheetory is town at this point. He was alot more lurky last game.

course it could be the fact that their are two scum teams this game.

Hedgey surface level reasoning for me being town. "This person is possibly town but nvm actually they might not be."

So, just curious, if everyone is supposed scum hunt, which makes perfect sense in the set up, what should we think if someone wasnt?

I like this question. It's an interesting angle to be thinking about. Like, "why isn't this person scumhunting, they must be scum", is an okay indicator as to whether someone is scum or not, but it's not without its blindspots, you know? But I think this is something worth talking about and multiball generally makes scumhunting a very different kind of beast to deal with.
I have a hard time understanding why he isn't applying this level of critical thinking to his reasoning for his reads though.

So tso claims to be town off the bad and I vote for it in random voting and my reasoning is bad.

Ozgin claims to be a citizen and he's scum.

How are these two things equivalent? Like, unless you aren't closely reading what people are saying and the implications of what it means to claim Citizen?

Wait a second. Wasn't taly the first one voting for house? Now all of a sudden he doesn't want to lynch house today. Taly defending house just seems weird to me. Especially since I've seen how you guys don't get along as town.

And how are you feeling about this interaction in terms of alignment?
How're you reading House/Taly atm?

Scum having daytalk means they are more likely to slip up by doing things in unison

Can you talk at me about what you mean by this? How exactly does scum slip up by doing that? Have you ever actually seen that happen?

And also little cautious of varsoon because of my upclose view of his recent scum game

Which game was this?

I'm also eading oz as more townish.

What are you finding more townish about him?

@Cheetory, what do you think of Varsoon sleeping you earlier with sky? What about his push for ozgin?

Varsoon will get shit done if he keeps playing like this.
There's no reason to even worry about him until we're past like D2 or something.
I could really easily see him being a scum-mastermind and his engagement levels here could really easily point to him being scum, but I really just don't care atm. There's bigger fish to fry!

Boonskies is towniest there can be.

No.
>:c

dragonread pending answers to shit.

Ozgin

>

Kitz

>

Sky

[Cheetory6]

Yoh Prolapsed why u no vote?

[Cheetory6]

Cheet-Oz was different in the hood in 180, more mellow and relaxed, I don't think I can use this to read him here because I was a scumbucket in that game who thought Oz might be a fellow scumbucket so that colored my view of him there. What is your current read on Ozgin?

Sorry I just remembered that you said this and then never followed up with it.

I'm currently leaning townish on Ozgin, because despite the fact that he's done things which strike me as logically likely for scum to do, I've gotten more townvibes from his posts than scumvibes. I may be trusting a little bit too much on him being less angry as scum because I think he knew in NY180 if he got lynched it wasn't the end of the world because it was like D5 and not as much of a loss for a scumteam than it would be on D1 with three people. I think him being a lot more frustrated with getting run up could be linked to that.
I do also think that he's started using that logic as a shield like here:

I should just do what I did in 180 and chill out with some "medical aid," it seems to help a lot.

So like, I get little worries that I might be wrong, but I just kind of feel like he's probably town and I'd rather have more time to try and sort him out atm.
I could try and articulate it more clearly and go through individual posts that I feel best describe this feeling that I'm getting if you want to talk with me about it?

[Cheetory6]

Someone talk at me about if Sky's tone is usually like this as either alignment.

[Cheetory6]

That's what I said.
I said logically I think Ozgin could be scum frustrated about being caught D1 on a small team.
I still think that his tone and where he's coming from feels like it's more likely to be town than scum regardless of that though.

[Cheetory6]

Why? All I see is scum with his buddies leaving avenues open to bus if it catches on. I am just not 100 which ones as town do that too in response to legit scum wagon really early.

What are you trying to say that I'm scum with Ozgin?
Lol.
I'm insulted if you seriously think I would waffle like this on my scummate if I were scum this game.
I also feel like you being this absolute about reads comes across as being pretty bullshit, just saying.

[Cheetory6]

I suck at words.
:c

@SW, will look at Ozgin stuff in a little bit.

[Cheetory6]

I'm not pretending that this is an absolute scenario in which Ozgin is 100%conftown or anything. I don't even feel particularly strong about my townread there.
I just don't put much stock in the Citizenstuff being alignment indicative in the same way you are and it's influencing my perception of him different I guess.

[Cheetory6]

The secret is out.
Gasp.

[Cheetory6]

S'all good.
Just don't call me Cheety. >:c
I'll take a more serious look at this game again tomorrow night. Feeling sapped of life atm.

[Cheetory6]

Ooo fakedayvig?
Looks like this game just got
fucking predictable.

[Cheetory6]

Could we get a fakehammer in here next?
Or maybe someone wants to gambit a fakeguilty on someone.

[Cheetory6]

Why do I even play mafia.

[Cheetory6]

WOW.
IM SURPRISED.
WHO ELSE IS.
LOLELELELELE.

[Cheetory6]

Oo fun.
We're referencing 1984 now?
This game is putting rats in my eyes atm.
I should probably stop reading for tonight.

[Cheetory6]

Also, if Boon isn't just lolgambiting which I wouldn't be surprised by at all, then they should be left alive.
21 person game.
A role will fuck over a pair of gambiting scum.
If they're town scum will inevitably off them.

[Cheetory6]

Speaking of leaving boon and dragon alive.
VOTE: prolapsedbrain
Let's prolapse his brain guys.

[Cheetory6]

Hell yeah.
Operation-Get-Prolapsed-Doing-More-Than-Snarky-Bullshit-Or-He-Dies is a-go!

[Cheetory6]

Why would you even crumb that?
Like.

.
.
.
.
ehehff,mg/

[Cheetory6]

Guys.
This is way less fun than it was in 180.
Can we all not be like.
Really awful and do dumb things and give scum the win again?
Like.
Please?
Maybe?
I'm having a hard time believing either of you are town who thought that was a good idea.
But it makes more sense than you guys being scum.
I'm just going to be leaning into a corner over here wishing that I was drunk.

[Cheetory6]

Is what happens when you crumb a mason role.
And act strangely chummy with people and you can't explain it.
Maybe next time you get a role like that, you could like, not do either of those things? q.q

P-Edit: House you could help me kill prolapsed. Look at the guy he's so rude.

[Cheetory6]

ur weerd.
im sorry im being a dick i just don't want a repeat of 180 and this game already has the makings of that same level of dumbness.
And you can trust that sentiment is true regardless of what side I'm on here, because that shit wasn't even fun as scum.

[Cheetory6]

Why would I do that when I clearly want to get the scum out of my hood?

Didn't you acknowledge earlier that Wake is a jerk who sometimes makes all-town neighborhoods? Why are you hunting purely based off of who's in your neighborhood rather than who you're finding scummy atm, especially if you're admitting that you're really not feeling sure on any of those reads?

[Cheetory6]

{Egg}

>

{Ozgin > Kitz Skybird Varsoon}

>

{Drixx > ProlapsedBrain}

^

{dragon boon}

{in a league of their own}

P-Edit: Well, with that acknowledgement that he has done that in the past, why are you so obsessed with only focusing on such a small selection of people for lynching rather than sorting?

[Cheetory6]

It's quite simple.
Egg is townlean.
You're nulltown.
Varsoon, Kitz and Song are mostly null atm.
Drixx is nullscum.
Prolapsed is scumlean.
Dragon and Boon are untouchable.

[Cheetory6]

I don't know what PB's towngame is like, but his scumgame is lurky and rude.
Does that sound familiar to you at all?
{hint: it's how he's playing this game}

P-Edit: I'd rather ISOdive people who I don't have a read on yet.

[Cheetory6]

Self-meta is asome.

Anyone voting Prolapsed for meta, have you also seen his town game?

Nah.
I'd still like a wagon on him though. Ozgin can happen again before deadline if people are deadset on that. But there should be some momentum shifts between now and the end of the day cycle for information, to get lazy people off their ass and to keep the game from getting stale.

[Cheetory6]

Titus, say what you want about the Citizen claim, but Ozgin saying that he is sad for not being in a hood is a reference to him being in a hood with SW and the scumPT in the context of the conversation he is having with me. You should know that.

[Cheetory6]

in a hood with SW and the scumPT from 180*

[Cheetory6]

Not Voting: Aeronaut, Drixx,

FA_Q2

, Prolapsed Brain, Taly, Skybird, Ozgin

What the fuck is this shit.
I don't care if you vote for me, these all need to move.
Ozgin, how are you not voting for someone right now?

[Cheetory6]

I imagine if he is town he didn't mean to claim VT here.
You're trying to act like he intentionally thought things through and was like "lol well fuck consequences whatever I don't care".

[Cheetory6]

Ozgin was pretty vehement in responding that it wasn't a reach-out to you guys when I characterised it that way.

And I'm pretty sure he's saying that he dislikes being characterized as just having buddied us.

Idfk I know I'm defending Ozgin a lot, and while it might seem dumb because I'm not even strongly townreading him or anything, I just don't like the angles people are choosing to push on him atm. It feels too self-assured, sleazy and misdirect-ish.

[Cheetory6]

Honestly, I can't tell if you're faking being this confident that Ozgin didn't fuck up and accidentally claim VT.
Because I really don't get how you've consistently been pushing this absolute confidence.

P-Edit: @boo, why is thinking someone is wrong/playing badly and town a scummy thing for Ozgin to do?

[Cheetory6]

A reachout is not the same as buddying.

Gah I wish I hadn't responded to this/you'd addressed it at him first because I feel like I may have fed him answers here if he is scum but oh well.
Ozgin, please address this.

[Cheetory6]

Did you catch scum with the same reasoning as what you're saying here?

[Cheetory6]

Because I can say "oh man I RVS voted scum once last game, therefore who I RVS voted this game is also scum" and realistically be saying the exact same thing you're saying here to a lesser degree.
Absolutism is bullshit and acting like you're a scumhunting God who can discern scum from town with a snap of your fingers seem uncharacteristically bullshitty of you.

P-Edit: I didn't intend for it to be directed at Boo fwiw.

[Cheetory6]

Heh.
I'm probably talking out of my ass here, but could timing have played into it?
It could also be that you're being much more logical and rational than Titus is. It's a lot more frustrating to be pushed by someone who's acting outrageously overconfident in their read on you for what you perceive to be absolutely trashy reasons?
I would need to actually look at his reasoning for townreading Titus and scumreading you to not just be talking hot air right now though, so give me some time and I'll try to decide how I feel about that from a more informed POV.

[Cheetory6]

I'm not going to follow every single thing a player has done. Ozgin's tone pinged me as townish for a while. That's more important than tracing every single thing that the guy has said and understanding it.

[Cheetory6]

Are you seriously going to tell me you're A-Okay with the manner in which Titus is pushing her Ozginvote?
Because if it was just your push, I probably wouldn't be defending him atm.

[Cheetory6]

Why would he need to fake any of his reads in multiball though?
Like, I could moreso get behind that angle if it was just that Ozgin can't scumhunt and has to flail to get people off his case, but how is the grand summation of it all not just "Ozgin is playing really weird"?
Because I can understand scumreading someone for playing weird, I just feel like, from experience, the weirder someone is without doing things that are actually scummy, the more probable it is that they're town who're getting shoved into a shitty situation.

P-Edit: q.q

[Cheetory6]

Okay not any of his reads, but like, you can legitimately scumhunt in multiball.
I've played enough times and as scum to know that scum can play on the level and coast through on actual scumhunting.

[Cheetory6]

Boo I feel like you're picking at the baddest angles on what I'm saying here.
Are you looking for an excuse to scumread me, or what?

[Cheetory6]

I didn't realize mafiahistory literally repeats itself.


P-Edit: My impression is that you're both pushing Ozgin for very different reasons.
I'm getting annoyed at the way I'm being engaged here, like you can just throw the label of "oh man this is literally the exact same situation as another game" at Ozgin and I and move on?
And Boo's slinging shit at me for not even trying to understand what I'm saying in the big picture and then basically insinuating that I'm scummy or an idiot, idc which, she's being unfair in either categorization.

PP-Edit:

If I said to you (not in so many words) that I hadn't really read over the person I was hard-defending, you would be a little twitchy, right?

If you want to lamely summarize the entire situation in an inaccurate way, then sure.
I've read over a lot of what Ozgin has had to say. He's made a lot of posts in this thread. If I'm not super on top of a section of his ISO that I didn't read with the lens of "is he reading Titus and Boo in a weird different way" then is that really all that surprising to you if I'm leaning town on him and care more about reading/engaging other things atm?

[Cheetory6]

Please tell me this is not a serious question.

Cheetory's premise is flawed because he's stating Ozgin has done nothing scummy.

"Oh man sure is scummy how he's either dastardly scum trying to claim VT at the very start of the game which will surely not draw attention to himself over town who just made a fuck up."

[Cheetory6]

What exactly are you asking me to do?

Are you trying to imply that Ozgin saying that he's 'lonely' is bullshit?

I made a jokepost at him. Reminiscent of jokeposts we made in scumPT in 180. He was also in a hood with SW that game.
He commented saying "I wish I wasn't Citizen this game because less of that is going to happen now", which makes a ton of sense and I really feel like you should understand that context given that you were co-modding that game.

[Cheetory6]

I need to come back to this tomorrow.
I'm too tired and it's affecting my ability to actually focus on reading things and I'm getting a little too frustrated directly engaging with people atm.

[Cheetory6]

He got the advice from me, right? Is that what we're getting at?

Also, the scumteam that Ozgin is on also knows who the rest of the scum are in the game as well, right?
That's how they and you can be so sure that lala is 100% a mislynch?

[Cheetory6]

I'm gonna ISOdive Ozgin shortly.
Was going to kick up a fuss about Titus's absolutism on his claim being impossible to be coming from town, but I feel like she's the only person who seriously believes that so I'm just going to do my best to ignore my urge to want to fight her on that.

[Cheetory6]

I've given it some thought and the biggest issue I have with this entire claim situation, is that the two options for why Ozgin claimed Citizen here are either he's scum, consciously thought "hey maybe I should fakeclaim VT here", checked to make sure the rules in the OP said Citizen and then claimed it OR he, as town, casually slipped up and said what role he has.

So, anyone who isn't completely denying this possibility, tell me why you think it's more likely that scumOzgin made a calculated and planned decision which would be hilariously anti-win condition for him as scum versus just screwing up as town. And I say it's anti-win condition because it literally draws the entire focus of the game onto him for no reason. Yes, he might avoid nightkills by doing this, but he also makes himself lynchbait and PRtargetbait when he wasn't even under all that much scrutiny in the first place when he said it.

Yet, scum don't want to lynch scum in general.

Why?
I've played multiball as scum before. Sure, it might be bad to head a scumlynch because it draws attention, but it isn't bad to be on the wagon for a scumlynch.

Crosslynching and killing reduces KPN.

Other scum can potentially threaten you as much as lynches can. Every game I've played as scum in multiball I'm way more terrified of the idea of being crosskilled by other scumteam than I am by being lynched.

I've seen arguments for Ozgin being scum because he's voting a lot.
I've played games as town where I vote a lot as well. Being survivalistic isn't necessarily scummy either.
Next.

There's the insinuation that his reads on Titus and Bookitty don't make sense.
I think they're fine enough. Titus is being super confident in her read. From what I can tell, Ozgin seems to be expecting scum to be hiding in the background and prodding things along. Bookitty isn't a bad player to be seeing that potentially being the case with. I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion, but I'm able to see where he's coming from on it.

I see him playing in a very tryhardish manner {sorry if that offends you but it's how I perceive it}. His vote on Varsoon and his reasoning for his scumread on Kitz/lalala come across as being more likely as being town trying really hard to find scum, such that the reasoning behind their read is poorly articulated because it's rushed in its anticipation.

The worst feelings I've gotten on Ozgin is that it feels like he's vaguely buddying me for defending him accurately, which I kind of would expect scumOzgin to want to keep people who're defending him decently well in a good light and stay in their good graces.
I think I would expect more doubt from Ozgin on me for defending him like I have been because it honestly probably should look a little off that I'm so against this wagon.
I dislike his sheeping onto the Prolapsedwagon, and I would like him to explain in more detail why he was so okay with getting on board there.
Otherwise though?
Like.
I'm just not feeling it.
At all.
Someone can argue at me if they want.
I should spend some time focusing on some other stuff though because I'm getting bogged down on this too much.

[Cheetory6]

House.

[Cheetory6]

House if you make another nonsensical overdramatic post like that last one I will assume you're trying too hard to emulate the zaniness of your towngame.
You're a smart guy.
You can't fool me.
Bb.

[Cheetory6]

I'd prefer to lynch scum.
Not scummy people.
I FIGURE WE WOULD BE ON THE SAME PAGE HERE.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

[Cheetory6]

Yoh House.
Tell me whether I should ISOdive Taly or Bookitty.
Then talk at me about your Ozgin read atm.

P-Edit: nvm.

[Cheetory6]

Nvm @ the Ozgin talking business.
Hood things are fine for now.

Could you talk at me about your read on Prolapsed?

[Cheetory6]

I've given it some thought and the biggest issue I have with this entire claim situation, is that the two options for why Ozgin claimed Citizen here are either he's scum, consciously thought "hey maybe I should fakeclaim VT here", checked to make sure the rules in the OP said Citizen and then claimed it OR he, as town, casually slipped up and said what role he has.

So, anyone who isn't completely denying this possibility, tell me why you think it's more likely that scumOzgin made a calculated and planned decision which would be hilariously anti-win condition for him as scum versus just screwing up as town. And I say it's anti-win condition because it literally draws the entire focus of the game onto him for no reason. Yes, he might avoid nightkills by doing this, but he also makes himself lynchbait and PRtargetbait when he wasn't even under all that much scrutiny in the first place when he said it.

Tell me about what you think about this Boo.

[Cheetory6]

Fuck that quote is me, not you, Boo. I have way too much energy right now and it's making it hard for me to focus. q.q

[Cheetory6]

wait, what changed this? ._.

Nvm @ the Ozgin talking business.

[Cheetory6]

The timing of it just isn't even valuable to scum as a faketownslip though?
Why couldn't the shifting meaning of it be him trying to not claim VT as VT?

ISO & Meta Bookitty.

I mean, I've played with Boo before.
Is there a game in particular you're wanting me to look at?

[Cheetory6]

Like, it just doesn't match the mindset and the timing of scum on a 3< scumteam in a 21 person game at the very start of D1 when there's no heat on you.
There's no reason for him to do it.
On a scumteam that small in a game this big, it just feels so much more likely that scum would try to assert themselves in a manner which would minimize chance of drawing attention to oneself. Ozgin calculatedly claiming VT doesn't match that expectation at all.

[Cheetory6]

Ozgin was just in a game where VTs were called Citizen.
Again, why is he not actual VT who realizes he fucked up by claiming VT and is trying to backtrack to make it seem like he didn't just narrow scumkills?

[Cheetory6]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60652
I'm saying why is it not that he makes a mistake as VT and then is trying to cover it up because he knows it was a mistake and he's narrowed nightkills.

[Cheetory6]

Do you think Ozgin realizes this though?

[Cheetory6]

I feel like we may be talking in circles here. :/

Do you think that Ozgin knew that Citizen referred to a specific role here when he made his claims?

Yes. I don't think he claimed on purpose. Like I think the thought process was something like: "I feel this way because I am this thing. I am explaining this because I'm a dummy who isn't realizing that I'm literally claiming atm."

If he did, then why would he make that claim and then back off it and try to disavow it?

Because I don't think he claimed on purpose and I think he realized that it was anti-town to claim citizen.
Other two questions don't apply to Ozgin being town.

P-Edit: I just don't know why he would want to do it as scum. It doesn't seem like something he would want to do from my experience of having literally played scum with him.

[Cheetory6]

i) Boo I'm trying real hard to be patient on this one, lol. Let's say jeffrey is a vt. He accidentally says that he's a vt in an awkward way. People raise eyebrows at him. He knows that it's anti-town to claim vt because it narrows the nightkillpool. Thus, he flails to try and get people to believe that he's not actually a vt and that he didn't mean it, because then he's fixed what he did wrong. Savvy?
ii) Yes, I still don't think the manner in which ozgin did it here makes sense as coming from scum.

[Cheetory6]

Like, I'm not denying it's possible Ozgin is scum, I'm not stupidly overconfident on this, I'm just saying that's where I'm at right now and I'd appreciate it if people could give me the botd enough to at least consider where I'm coming from.

[Cheetory6]

Like, not necessarily directing it at you.
I just mean it feels like most people are just kind of covering their eyes and saying "Ozgin lynch a-go!"
I do appreciate that you're willing to engage me on this, don't get me wrong. Just frustrated that it feels really clear to me and I'm apparently not doing a good job of explaining it.

[Cheetory6]

q.q
are you sure?

[Cheetory6]

I feel like slinking into a corner because egg saying that townslip thing makes me feel like I'm wrong here. q.q
Him saying it more than once in that post does look a little sketchy for what I was thinking and like I can't disagree that him lying about the citizen thing being a standard for him does implicitly look bad. Like, I still kind of think that he was lying as town to try to backtrack away from a citizen claim, but ehhhhh.

I'm feeling muddled now

[Cheetory6]

Not feeling an Ozgin lynch for reasons discussed in the 'hood (Spoiler: I actually agree with something dragonspawn said and disagree with my favoritest cuddlebug evar).

Heh?

[Cheetory6]

I saw new post by Boon.
And I knew exactly what it would be.
-.-

[Cheetory6]

Hope I was wrong.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake.

[Cheetory6]

"guys i wil just claim best frends for no reason and then lol hammer because wynot!?!??!?!"
Never gets old.

[Cheetory6]

Yeah the bf claim didn't do that either.
Are you going to start shooting fireworks and taking hostages D2?

[Cheetory6]

Guys, Boon is threatening to drill to the center of the earth and blow up the planet if we don't notice him.

[Cheetory6]

Not surprised by either flip.
Don't mind me.
I'm just gonna be a dick for a little bit.

Just for a little bit.

[Cheetory6]

Also, boop:
VOTE: FA

P-Edit: Nah it's okay. I'm just being a jerk
Now we can all trust that my townreading skills are usually pretty saucy.
I was admittedly getting a little doubtful at the end, so whatever, we all fucked up. Let's get shit back together or something.

Also, good idea, will grab things Varsoon said now and paraphrase.

[Cheetory6]

i) Varsoon says that he wants to fakeclaim masons with me. I said no because that's dumb.
ii) Said that he wasn't liking Ozgin so I told him to engage him with like a question or a vote or something.
iii) Said he wanted to bring focus. Then buddying galore on me q.q
iv) Said that he thought lala and Ozgin were on opposite scumteams.
v) Said he didn't like House's entry or anything surrounding him.
vi) Asking about how we felt about Ozginwagon. Said that TSO's naked jump on it was bad.
vii) Talking about Dragon being in a neighborhood.
viii) I talked to him a bit about TSO and he changed his read to be more null there. I don't think TSO is sided with Varsoon atm.
ix) Said he wanted to focus on Titus later on during the cycle or something?
x) Says that Titus has a good chance of being scum, but said there's a low chance of actually getting a wagon going there.
xi) Saying that he's suspicious of House. I think this suspicion also comes across as being genuine, so lazily going to lean House and Varsoon aren't scum together.
xii) Asked one of us to kill Titus. I said I would as long as he wouldn't suspect anyone in our PT of being scum.

And then he died.
I think that's mostly everything. Drixx or TSO can correct me if I missed anything or messed something up. They probably won't though because they aint even here.

[Cheetory6]

Wow.
I don't make people paranoid?
ITS NOT LIKE GC AND I JUST WON 180 OR SOMETHING.

[Cheetory6]

Also FA is good lead for Varsoonmate.
Lots of crappy soft interactions.
No actual read thrown at each other.
Gogogogo.

[Cheetory6]

Can you look at Kits Cheetory?

Sure. Just might be in a little bit because my brain is a little all over atm.

Umm wtf to the last comment about killing me... dat doubtcasting by Varsoon yo.

Yeah, rude of him. He could have gotten his team to kill you the whole time and instead he asked us to get our hands dirty? What a jerk.

Wtf? You probably should have told us that yesterday. That's like...blatantly scummy.

Can you see Varsoon saying that as town? He's a little bit zany! It's possible he might! {you're probably right though q.q}

Can you elaborate on FA? He slightly pinged my gut but I can't remember much about anything major.

I can pull quotes if you want, but mostly just look through his ISO and see the amount of focus on Varsoon interactions but nothing comes of it. There's no buddying. There's no reads being given to each other. It's just soft empty bullshit interactions IMO. Strikes me as plausibly scum/scum.

[Cheetory6]

The us is my neighborhood.

[Cheetory6]

As in he said that one of us should kill you and I joked that I said I would?

[Cheetory6]

Sokay.
My sense of humour doesn't translate well to text.
People have assumed that I'm being an asshole to them sometimes when I'm just trying to relate to them with humour and it's discouraging. :c

Anyways.
I will try to get to reading once I come down from the rush I'm getting from this flip.

P-Edit: Dragon im town tho stop being paranoid of me.

[Cheetory6]

Hey Boon.
You claimed D1.
And hammered Ozgin.
Titus is a darling angel in comparison to you right now. Don't talk shit.

[Cheetory6]

Also, I figure Titus is like more dignified than a darling angel.
So.
This is me saying that she's being cooler than you this game.
/words.

[Cheetory6]

(ii) Why did you suggest him doing so?

Because it was earlygame and I wanted to get the ball rolling?

(i) Dumb idea.

Yeah, why didn't you tell it, Cheetory?

Note: Egg is reading the game in a very similar way as I do.

How is " that was a dumb idea" reading the game similarly to "that was blatantly scummy"? I feel like that isn't the same reaction at all.
It was like the first thing he said in the PT. I assumed he was just saying/thinking of dumb shit to get the game started.

Why Titus? We can't rule out that but is she our biggest concern now?

Because she's good at directing the flow of the game.

(xii) I hope your Neighbourhood will confirm this later. Although I don't understand the point of this. Even if it was a joke, why didn't he ask you to kill House, in this case?

Because Titus is scarier than House is during the day for scum who's worried about someone they can't control. He was probably paranoid that she could be active scum driving the game. Could also be distancing, but not really leaning that way atm.

Varsoon also gave me tons of crap for having a sudden V/LA come up, and was basically positioning to paint me as scum in the neighborhood.

Well that's just not true. He was trying way harder to make TSO look scummy from what I saw.

Cheet,

You should have agreed with him on fake claiming masons. Then had him do so and said, not at all.

Instead, I should have claimed mafia with him, right?

[Cheetory6]

I mean, scum has no reason not to try and scumhunt.
I think he genuinely was paranoid of Titus potentially being scum.

[Cheetory6]

I don't think Varsoon actually expected Titus to get shot because of his comment.
I think he was expressing an anxiety that he was feeling over her in the game.

[Cheetory6]

Might have been worried that Titus is one of those players who's likely to get protected or something?
Or given that he had a protection he might have been worried about other scum having a protection of their own or her being BP? etc etc..

[Cheetory6]

@SW, I was looking in FA's ISO.

[Cheetory6]

I was saying that's what Varsoon might have been thinking, not what I was thinking.

[Cheetory6]

Also sorry SW I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not really in the mood to throw effort at this at the moment.
Promise I'll pull specifics by tonight.

[Cheetory6]

Need to get stuff done. Going VLA until Wednesday night.

[Cheetory6]

Titus, you should give comprehensive reads.

[Cheetory6]

VLA until Sunday.
Sorry.

[Cheetory6]

Yeah because TSO was really putting on the pressure in there with his like two posts.

[Cheetory6]

Good work Drixx.
We made it much easier to be able to continue to do nothing in the neighborhood by killing TSO.
*high five*

[Cheetory6]

Also, I think the gist of the reasoning behind House being scum atm is that he was implying he was roleblocked two nights in a row, which he would have no way of actually knowing if he'd actually commuted on N1.
Not really sure what to make of that yet.
Intending to make an actual post sometime today if I actually don't feel like complete shit later.

[Cheetory6]

Oy house.
Can you like.
Respond to dragon's 'slip' on you?

[Cheetory6]

That would be fantastic if you asked people to stop asking you about it?
Instead you're just kind of using a really offensive example that doesn't really even work here. -.-

[Cheetory6]

Oh wait I understand.
That explanation just kind of sucks.
You surely understand why Dragon thinks that was a slip and I don't think he's dumb for it.

[Cheetory6]

Okay, so, here's the issue, House.
Dragon says "how can you be roleblocked again?"
You say "I commuted N1 and gunsmithed Kitz N2".
Silver says "that doesn't answer the question, how were you roleblocked

again

?"
You say "even if it's once I can still be upset about it like I was".
So, the issue here is.. why wasn't that your immediate answer to Dragon instead of that roundabout answer? If anything it looks like you stalled answering.

P-Edit: Got some clever shit happening in this game. Wowee.

[Cheetory6]

I mean, I get what you're saying.
I just don't get why you didn't say it immediately to Dragon rather than a while after.

[Cheetory6]

Are you mad at me too House?
I just want to understand you.
That's all.

[Cheetory6]

Is RC scummy or just a jerk?

[Cheetory6]

I mean, yeah.
You weren't really a jerk to House.
You were kind of a jerk to Silver though.
:/

And which reaction?

[Cheetory6]

I mean.
It didn't really come across that way but okay >.>

P-Edit: *shrug* I could see him being this angry and ridiculous as town or scum.
In fact I have more experience with House being ridiculous as town.
So.
This is me shrugging.

My head's also not really in this game right now, so that's a thing.

[Cheetory6]

Because I thought you were being ruder in your approach to House, but I reread before responding to you and realized that you were just kind of calling him scum in an abrasive way so I was less annoyed at you?

I don't really know what to say if you don't buy me being detached from this game, but it's true? Regardless of whether I'm town or not? I need to reread and that's like the last thing I want to do right now, so I'm just kind of here, floating about awkwardly because I don't know how to not post right now.

[Cheetory6]

The amount of shrugs I have for a case on how apathetic I feel in a game of mafia being indicative of my alignment is literally just staggering.
I'm being crushed.

[Cheetory6]

Also, I seriously hardcore doubt you read that game if you think I wasn't emotional there.
Lmao.

[Cheetory6]

I sincerely doubt you read that game if you think I had a neutral tone from the midway point.
Like.
Seriously doubt.
Like.
Woah man.
Neutralness!

[Cheetory6]

How is it me saying that it's a playstyle thing?
I'm saying it's bullshit that you're saying my scumgame is full of neutral tone when it's provably not in the link you literally just provided.

[Cheetory6]

K. And if you're town I get to fucking laugh at how dumb you are as town.

[Cheetory6]

Hi guys.
I'm RadiantCowbells.
House was 100% scum on last page.
I was willing to literally trade my own lynch for it.
Now he's just shrugs because Cheetory isn't invested in this game and that's 100% indicative of scum.

It must be fun being able to be so absolute in a read based on literally almost nothing.
I know I sometimes get like that, but there are some people who literally exude that bullshit confidence in every push they make and it astounds me.
Brb going to go be astounded in a place that isn't here.
Have fun making a case on me based on your 100% confidence level RC!
Look forward to hopefully being lynched soon.

[Cheetory6]

Just like you knew all those people were scum in the Burning right?
Your track record is pretty good from what I remember.

[Cheetory6]

I'm just being a jerk now.
I should actually go.
>.>

[Cheetory6]

Gah.
Okay. I know you'll think this is scum bullshit, but whatever.
I'm legitimately sorry I'm being a tool right now.
I don't like playing this way and I'm trying to get better about it, but I clearly can't help but resort to being an asshole when I'm feeling frustrated.
I know it probably doesn't mean anything, but you don't deserve for me to be a dick about that game, no matter whether I'm actually town here being pissy {which ftr I am but shrug} or scum trying to discredit you. Fucking uncalled for on my part. I'm sorry.

[Cheetory6]

And I screwed up on Monkey. It happens.
I'm gonna stop posting until I actually have something useful to put forward.

[Cheetory6]

House, your antics are getting boring. Stop making this game boring.
If you actually think Drixx or RC or whoever is actually scum then make a case that isn't "this person is a dick", because RC has provably not been a dick this game.

I'll give this game some love tomorrow. Going to a bbq today. c:

[Cheetory6]

BBQ is cancelled because of bad weather. I am sad. Going to actually try rereading things.

House.
If your push on RC was anything short of garbage, I wouldn't say anything. But it was.
He made a joke.
People misconstrued it.
Once it was obvious that it was a joke that wasn't even meant to be mean you still continued to push it as though it wasn't obviously not malicious.
Is that me defending him or me saying that you're being a dufus right now?
Tell me all about it.

[Cheetory6]

Like, house.
These absolute statements based in nothing literally mean nothing.
It's like "Between Luca and Cheetory they have the same alignment"
What the fuck does that even mean?
Why are you coming to that conclusion? Just because you fail to understand why people are calling you on your bullshit right now?
I'm not even calling you scum. I'm just asking you to get your shit together and actually make a case that isn't provably absolutely wrong.

P-Edit:

I already did, scroll up and replace Drixx w/ RC.

Do you really want to play this game House? Do you really? Because I will play back and you won't enjoy it.

he made an ambiguous joke that could easily be taken out of context, then when it was he attacked the ones that did so.

Because you continually called him malicious when he wasn't being malicious and it eventually became obvious that it wasn't meant to be an insult and you still pretended it was?
Wow I can't imagine why someone would think you're scummy for that House! I really can't!

Hell, he feigned more outrage about the person I insulted than the person that I actually insulted!

Did he? Or did Drixx? Because I feel like you literally mixed them up and added their play together here.

And you completely dismiss the fact that he fabricated a case on you by deliberately misrepresenting your play in a previous game as an excuse to push you.

Because I know that town can make shit cases that don't make any sense on people too? People apply meta in shit ways all the time as town. I don't see why this makes RC clearly scummy to you.

[Cheetory6]

Was I hard-defending my scumbuddy Ozgin on D1 too?
Or am I just attacking cases that I perceive to be shit because I don't want another garbage mislynch being led by someone who's too confident in bullshit that's wrong?

[Cheetory6]

The first half of that game I was admittedly kind of slow. I can see where he got that from.
I think he's being lazy and applying meta-tells where they don't make any sense.
I can see townRC doing that.
Hell, I'm being super fucking lazy right now and I'm town.
I would be being louder about RC being wrong about me if he was still trying to push it, but he's not. So what's the point?

[Cheetory6]

Is he? I thought he changed votes.
And nah. It's just any push that I perceive as being bad that's continuing being pushed I will be loud about it.
Like I was with Ozgin.
Bae you can think I'm scummy, but you're not going to logic a scumread onto me like this. It's just not gonna happen.

[Cheetory6]

Yeah man.
There's absolutely no reason for me to actually be able to townhunt vs whiteknighting.
If you apply generic scumtells in such a broad manner you can make anything look scummy.
Context is important.
I thought Ozgin was town.
I think your push on RC is bad so I want it either to be better or for you to move on to something better.
You can pretend that even if I'm scum, that I wouldn't know who is for sure town or scum all you want, but it doesn't mean that I wasn't right about Ozgin.
What you could be arguing is that if I were scum I would have better odds of knowing that Ozgin was town, but even then that doesn't mean that my gutcall wouldn't have been right in that situation, it would just be less impressive.

[Cheetory6]

Basically, what I'm saying is, all of your pushes are surface level as fuck.
If you actually want to lynch me, make a fucking actually good case on me that isn't just the names of mafiascum wiki article pages.

[Cheetory6]

Oh wait you are voting for me still.
Huh.
I mean, which faction am I hunting for that you think I'm not on?
Am I scum with Varsoon or am I hunting for Varsoon's buddies?

[Cheetory6]

Let me know and I can adjust my play accordingly.

[Cheetory6]

I mean. I don't fact-check shit in general. This isn't really a new thing.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to actually try to be productive instead of engaging with the buffoonery here.

[Cheetory6]

Give me a case.

[Cheetory6]

What happened to clearing out your hood btw?

[Cheetory6]

Give me a case.

What happened to clearing out your hood btw?

It's like you literally don't care at all about actually engaging me.
-.-

[Cheetory6]

I'm WKing him though House, remember?
I swear. Fucking can't stand people who can't actually engage reasonable shit so they just sidestep and pretend like they actually did something when they're actually wrong and did literally none of the legwork to even pretend like they can actually be proud standing on the shitpile that they didn't even make.

[Cheetory6]

And if I flip green will you grow a pair and actually come to terms with your fuck-ups?
Or are you going to just continually pretend like you're a genius who can't make mistakes?

[Cheetory6]

Because your dodgy "I don't need to engage people because I already know that I'm right" bullshit is grating and it's making it hard for me to actually focus on this game. I'm too busy being annoyed at you to read other people's ISOs. I'm reading Boo's ISO and just thinking "fucking House, I can't believe his shit right now -.-"

P-Edit: House.
Seriously. I just need this promise.
IF and I'm saying IF again because I literally don't give a fuck because it's not even a slip, I flip green. Will you.
House.
Grow a pair.
And own up to your arrogant bullshit?

[Cheetory6]

I'm still waiting for that promise.
Like seriously. I will selfvote if you promise that you'll not be a fucking coward if you're town and you're being a fucking idiot here and you simply admit that you being wrong here means that you're an arrogant ass.

[Cheetory6]

Like it shouldn't be hard, if you believe I'm 100% scum that slipped then you have nothing to fear with that promise, right?
Why so concerned Mr. God-of-Mafia-In-The-Flesh?

[Cheetory6]

[Cheetory6]

I like the inherent oxymoron.
"I'm an arrogant ass but I refuse to acknowledge that I might be being an arrogant ass here"
You should sig that shit.

VOTE: Bookitty

[Cheetory6]

I think Boo legitimately thought that Ozgin was going to flip scum.
I think she's been trying to hardcoast since that flip though.
Her tone has taken a hard nose dive since D1 and she's being way too quiet.
Her interactions with Titus feel kind of empty for someone who was hard-townreading her on D1.

[Cheetory6]

You're being an arrogant ass by saying I'm 100% confirmedscum.
But you're also admitting that you're an arrogant ass. Which means that you know that it's bullshit that you're saying that I'm 100% scum.
But you're saying it anyways.
Therefore you're refusing to acknowledge that you're being an arrogant ass here.
I believe you owe me an apology.

[Cheetory6]

Someone who isn't House please start talking to me because I currently want to melt my own face off.

[Cheetory6]

*frothing at mouth* That's the second most frustrating schtick I've dealt with lately. q.q
Someone talk at me/with me about Bookitty.

[Cheetory6]

Again, which one?
Am I on the one with Varsoon or the one without Varsoon? This is important stuff RC. You said you wanted me to hunt for the other team so I need to know which one I'm supposed to hunt for.

[Cheetory6]

Because if it's the one without Varsoon then I can just focus on associative tells with Varsoon.
Let me know.

[Cheetory6]

Okay, so since I'm scumreading Bookitty and I have a theory, I'll just assume I'm supposed to be on the scumteam without Varsoon for now, okay?
Is that okay?
Okay.
Cool.

Varsoon reaching out to me feels town, but he may know me well enough to know that, omg WIFOM! No, I do think he's town for the moment, but I want to reiterate: I SLEEP AT NIGHT. I WORK DURING THE DAY. Please don't start whining about my participation level before a full day has passed or I'll get VERY GROUCHY.

@Bookitty

, can you please explain at me why your wariness of Varsoon stopped just because of Ozgin?

Varsoon, you magnificent bastard, you might not be scum after all!

You know this is multiball, so you being like "oh man Ozgin and Varsoon aren't scum together so Varsoon isn't scum!" feels weird.

Holy wow, an actual line of questioning that isn't "I ALREADY KNOW THAT YOU'RE SCUM AND AM GOING TO SIT ON THIS READ AND DO NOTHING WITH IT BUT POSTURE FOR DAYS."
Take notes RC and House. This is how you get shit done.
#semifakescumhunting [get it because I'm totally on the scumteam that didn't have Varsoon on it]

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory, I don't have much experience with bookitty. What specifically is pinging you about her?

I mean I don't have a huge amount of experience with Boo either?
But the general idea is:
i) She pushes Ozgin seriously thinking he's scum. Once he flips we haven't seen anything from her since, which kind of comes across as her trying to lay low IMO. Her reads are too focused this game and it makes me think she's trying to get by on focusing on one person at a time without having to associate herself with anyone else.
ii) She let go of her hardtownread on Titus a little too easily.
iii) And now I have the added casedness of her read on Varsoon developing in a manner that would suggest she's only hunting for one scumteam.
Boom. Case.

[Cheetory6]

My issue with Boo isn't that she hardpushed Ozgin.
I don't think anyone who was pushing that didn't seriously believe that he was going to flip scum.
I just think that she was worried about the fallout over it and has been trying to fly under the radar.
The focus is on the behavior after the Ozginflip rather than before it.

And yes, I realize that her flip on Titus came after the slip, but like.. I don't know it just seems like she should have been a little less convinced that Titus was scum. I can articulate it more clearly with quotes and stuff if you'd like?

[Cheetory6]

I think Cheetory is town. Titus too, though I would not likely lynch her today even if I wasn't already town reading her because of general respect I have for a particular scumhunting technique she uses.

I have a rock-solid townread on Titus by this point. She definitely tunnels as town and I see that here with no hesitation or backing off whatsoever.

She has a respect for Titus that would make her unwilling to lynch her even if she was scum and that transitions into a strong townread. Probably the townread she was most vocal about on D1.
It just seems inconsistent that she wouldn't be more hesitant on Titus being scum.
I can see it easier as coming from a place of it not mattering that much to her that Titus is being easylynched because even if she flips town, it's still a lynch that's progressing towards endgame and the people hardpushing it will get more attention that Boo will get from it.

[Cheetory6]

You get that this is multi-ball, right, and that scum have to hunt the other scum and that they don't know who the other scum are?

Well that's literally the point of my question to you on why you decided to clear Varsoon based on Ozgin seeming like scum to you.
Please respond to that.

So why, if I were scum, would I hard-clear someone else as town in that way?

The thing is that you didn't hardclear her? You literally changed your mind and voted for her? :/
But okay, let's pretend that you did hard-clear her.
Is buddying not a thing? Staying on Titus's good side would be beneficial for scum because she can get very focused and aggressive in her pushes in a way that's undesirable. Keeping out of her crosshairs by buddying her could be a good way to do that, no? You changed your stance on her 100% from hardtown to obvscum when it became opportunistic to do so, in such a manner that doesn't strike me as being 100% genuine.

[Cheetory6]

ISOdives can make it hard to fully understand context. Will take another look at it tonight and see if what you're saying is true.

Yeah, if someone I'm hard townreading makes a scumslip it's going to change my read on them, hard as that may be to believe. I'm not incapable of being wrong and my reads often change over the course of the game; the posts you quoted came WELL before the scumslip. Are you seriously arguing that I should have "stayed the course" even when I wasn't sure of Titus-town anymore?

You're being very absolute this game Boo.
I can't tell if you treating everything as black and white is genuine or not.
Of course I'm not implying that you should have still been like "loltitusisobvtownstill". I'm implying that you completely flipping your read there looks opportunistic. It's the COMPLETE flip that bugs me. The lack of hesitation. The certainty there looks fake and uncaring.

[Cheetory6]

Ugh. SW. I really hope you're not scum buddying me. Because that last post made me feel happy and I'll be sad if you're just using me.

FA, what's your read on Bookitty?

At the point I voted Titus I wasn't absolutely sure, no. But there's no way to proceed with the game if we don't find out, imo. I was confident enough to vote her. As it turns out, she was third party and the scumslip was completely meaningless, even though it netted us the SK.

I mean, no matter how you frame this issue, it's still an issue for me. I'm not implying you were stating that it was an absolute confidence. But it certainly did not come across as a nuanced read to me. It seemed a lotttttttt more like someone saying shrug and going along with the flow despite how they were reading someone.

Also fwiw, I'm pretty sure the scumslip was valid because blue+red=purple.

You don't need to ISOdive. Read the thing you picked out in that post IN the post, including the quote right above it. I don't think it's something you can miss if you actually read the post carefully.

You're right on this point though. >.<
I get what you were saying here now.

In any case, Boo I'm actually pretty sure you're scum this game.
I just may have to be patient with proving it. That's all.

[Cheetory6]

House.
Tell me about Bookitty.

RC.
Tell me about Bookitty.

How are you guys reading her?
If you think I'm scum then just entertain that I'm hunting for the other scumteam right now and take me seriously for like half a second.
Ok?

[Cheetory6]

I'm gonna try my best not to make pfftposts for the rest of this game.
I'm really gonna try.

[Cheetory6]

stop being paranoid will ya?

lol.
I don't know if you know who you're talking to.
Literally the most paranoid idiot ever.
My townreads in games are hedged in "THEY COULD BE SCUM UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES" qualifications and my scumreads are hedged in "BUT CHEETORY WHAT IF THEY'RE ACTUALLY TOWN YOU FOOL".
zzzzzzzz.

I think Drixx is probably being legitimate with the potstirring stuff. Like.
Iunno.
He's being a little shifty in the hood, but like I can't really blame him because things are mostly dead in there and I'm probably also being a little shifty in there too at this point. Otherwise I've just kind of got this feeling of genuineness that I'm willing to hold onto while there are still so many people left in the game.

I can take a look at Taly if you'd like? Are there like 2-3 small concise points that you think are convincing for him being scum that I can ISOdive him to look for?

[Cheetory6]

i) Can you bold the wording that was similar to the wording used in your hood?
ii) Why aren't you voting someone Boo?

[Cheetory6]

i) ok.
ii) a) I shouldn't have to explain to you why I care.
b) What are your reads? Like any of them. You should give them. If you care at all about making me reconsider.

[Cheetory6]

If you think I'm scum or that SW is scum you should probably vote for one of us.
Will do a good job of making that seem less bullshit.