Natural action resolution

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Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Fri May 15, 2015 2:34 am

Post by PokerFace »

vezokpiraka wrote:For example I've seen games where the scum roleblocker wasn't blocked by the town jailkeeper because the list has blocks higher up than protects.

If roleblocker hitting jail then jail does nothing that night
If jail hits roleblock then blocker does nothing that night
If they hit each other than both go through and both are blocked, so protect is nullified

By golden rule I think that's the result^
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Post Post #4 (isolation #1) » Fri May 15, 2015 3:19 am

Post by PokerFace »

Why does bus happen before block and redirect happen after block in that list?

Following the golden rule:
Blocking the busdriver should always cancel the bussing. Bus driver should be blockable.
If bus driver is not blocked then the block should be bussable.
Blocking the redirector should always cancel the redirecting. redirector should be blockable.
If Redirector is not blocked then the block should be redirectable.

I think that list needs editing so that it better follows the golden rule since everyone seems to forget the golden rule
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Post Post #7 (isolation #2) » Fri May 15, 2015 8:20 am

Post by PokerFace »

I'm arguing the list needs updated to better represent the golden rule that no one remembers

Bus driver only changes the destinations of the actions, correct?
Bus driver can not target himself, correct?

If all that is true, than bus driver targeting the blocker can not stop the blocking. Driver has to target the target of the blocker. And since Driver can't target himself Blocker should win when they target each other

If driver targets blocker and player X and blocker targets bus driver then driver gets blocked. End or story, right?
If driver targets player x and player y and blocker targets player x, than blocker now targets player y. correct?

If redirector targets blocker and player X and blocker targets redirector, the redirector is blocked. End or story, right?
If redirector targets blocker and player y and blocker targets player x, the blocker targets player y. correct?

If all that is true, then shouldn't bus driver and redirector BOTH be listed after blocker in the conflict list?
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Post Post #10 (isolation #3) » Fri May 15, 2015 9:57 am

Post by PokerFace »

Ok i am confused

me wrote:Bus driver only changes the destinations of the actions, correct?
Bus driver can not target himself, correct?

quadz wrote:Your description of block and redirect is correct.

me wrote:If all that is true, than bus driver targeting the blocker can not stop the blocking. Driver has to target the target of the blocker. And since Driver can't target himself Blocker should win when they target each other

If driver targets blocker and player X and blocker targets bus driver then driver gets blocked. End or story, right?
If driver targets player x and player y and blocker targets player x, than blocker now targets player y. correct?


quadz wrote:Not end of story. With bus happening before block in the list, the driver action would go through on the blocker, and this the blocker would not block the driver.


but didn't you say
quadz wrote:Your description of block and redirect is correct.


Then why is bus driver before block and redirector after blocker in the list when:
In post 7, PokerFace wrote:
If all that is true, than bus driver targeting the blocker can not stop the blocking. Driver has to target the target of the blocker. And since Driver can't target himself Blocker should win when they target each other


I think the list is wrong and both bus driver and redirector need to be after blocker
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Post Post #18 (isolation #4) » Sat May 16, 2015 2:21 am

Post by PokerFace »

If bus driver targets roleblocker and random person A and roleblocker targets bus driver, the bus driving doesn't happen. The bussing does't affect the blocking so it resolves without problems.

Thank you for putting that in simpler words. This is indeed why the blocker trumps the bus driver directly. When busser is the blocker's target, there is no conflict. Golden rule makes blocker win

Bus driver is before roleblocking because if bus driver targets player A and player B and roleblocker blocks player A then player B gets blocked.
If blocking was before bus driving, then player A would get blocked and all the other actions would be redirected from A to B and from B to A.

I realized this was true earlier, but I didn't realize this was why the busser was before blocker. So its before it in the list to handle the conflict where the busser's target is also the blocker's target.
When the two have the same target, is the only time they really conflict


I guess that makes sense since busser effects destinations, blocker effects actions, and redirector effects directions
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Post Post #19 (isolation #5) » Sat May 16, 2015 2:47 am

Post by PokerFace »

In post 3, PokerFace wrote:
vezokpiraka wrote:For example I've seen games where the scum roleblocker wasn't blocked by the town jailkeeper because the list has blocks higher up than protects.

If roleblocker hitting jail then jail does nothing that night
If jail hits roleblock then blocker does nothing that night
If they hit each other than both go through and both are blocked, so protect is nullified

By golden rule I think that's the result^

does this answer your question well enough vezokpiraka?
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Post Post #22 (isolation #6) » Sat May 16, 2015 8:40 am

Post by PokerFace »

vezokpiraka wrote:MY example wasn't a question. The scum roleblocker targeted A. The town jailkeeper targeted roleblocker. The mod considered that A got blocked because roleblocker is higher up the list than protects while not giving any thought to the golden rule.

I know how actions should resolve.

That mod was being dumb then. Golden rule makes jail keeper win. Scum roleblocker should be blocked and protected. A should be uneffected

Jailkeeper is rather interesting to resolve outside of your scenario. It has 2 actions that must target the same person. The roleblock resolves first and the protect resolves much later. It does not have one single action, just one single target. That's why if the blocker and jailkeeper targeted each other the result would be both being blocked and the protect never happening
When I joined this site, I was a software tester for mobile business applications and the song PokerFace was not yet written by Lady Gaga
Now I test lottery and gambling software as my job. It's funny how my life has turned out. Somewhere a Time Traveler is laughing madly

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