New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[Varsoon]

Dragon, I want to know what you've found out.
Asking questions and trying to discern things is fine, but asking questions just to look active and not really doing anything, well...
That's kinda like putting up the illusion of being a helpful guy.
And I'd rather just have town be full of -actual- helpful guys.

[Varsoon]

Observation point. People resisted Ozgin the Obvscum because it was too early to get a large wagon. Yet Dragonspawn has a wagon out of nowhere that is larger.

Noted. Total shit.

Taly, I'm looking at you in particular.

I actually don't think Taly's totally throwing up dust. Dragon's pinged to me because there's a lack of commitment there, like Dragon is being very cautious, just playing it safe. Taly's articulation fits and explanations work for me. I don't see what you see with Taly. Maybe point out the specifics with what's bothering you with Taly?

I believe the Dragonspawn wagon is genuinely just another wagon that's arisen due to Dragon's play. It doesn't seem like a counterwagon to Ozgin at all. Maybe you can illuminate what you're seeing?

[Egg]

Let's try this again dragonspawn:

Couldn't he have just said that when I asked the first approximately three times, initially giving him the benefit of the doubt?

pretty sure he did.

Someone is gonna have to show me then because last I knew he left open the possibility he is a power role which rules that out.

I think the fact he used citizen isn't the issue. If he is a citizen why would he claim something else no matter how much the term is used?the problem is he claimed. And then afterwards said he was using it to say he is town but not the actual role. That's the problem.is that enough to make him scum? Maybe. Should we be focusing on him as much as we are? Probably not.but whether he is town or scum we might be able to look at his wagon and find some of the scum on it

This is such a wishy washy almost defense kind of post. Like you want to defend him without calling him town.

Skybird, you are town reading House for something you and I both believe he does as town and scum. I don't understand why.

Taly, I mostly got that impression because you are still making points against him and trying to justify unvoting with things like the fact that he is L-4 so early or wanting to see him play without pressure. Even calling him bad town feels like an excuse. I think it's possible you just don't want your name on the wagon.

I don't get it. I'm interpreting conflicted data here and it makes me suspicious of you people. Do you guys really think I'm in it with Ozgin and/or Dragon? If so, you've never stated why.

I don't think Ozgin or dragonspawn is scum WITH you, no.

Ozgin, ISO me. I'm pretty sure you'll find my point on you in about three of my last five posts.

Who are you thinking taly doesn't want to associate with?

I don't think Taly wants to be lumped in with those voting Ozgin.

Titus, why would scum NOT want to lynch the other team? That makes no sense.

Radiant, why are you in this game?

Varsoon, I'd love to know your super secret dragonspawn tell but outting roles is bad, so *shrug*. Let me at least ask this. Are you sure enough that if he flips town, it means you were lying or could you be wrong?

[Varsoon]

If he flips town then I really, really need to talk to him in Twilight.
That's about all.

[dragonspawn]

Dragon, I want to know what you've found out.
Asking questions and trying to discern things is fine, but asking questions just to look active and not really doing anything, well...
That's kinda like putting up the illusion of being a helpful guy.
And I'd rather just have town be full of -actual- helpful guys.

Funny. I haven't found you to be very helpful in this game.

The game has barely started. The fact that your expecting profound reads when some people have barely posted is ridiculous. Ill continue to bask questions. Note when things seem weird and scum hunt. If you have a problem with that lynch me. But this wagon is nonsense so far. And the fact that a good chunk of you can't articulate a reason whim scum makes it more nonsense.

[dragonspawn]

Let's try this again dragonspawn:

Couldn't he have just said that when I asked the first approximately three times, initially giving him the benefit of the doubt?

pretty sure he did.

Someone is gonna have to show me then because last I knew he left open the possibility he is a power role which rules that out.

I think the fact he used citizen isn't the issue. If he is a citizen why would he claim something else no matter how much the term is used?the problem is he claimed. And then afterwards said he was using it to say he is town but not the actual role. That's the problem.is that enough to make him scum? Maybe. Should we be focusing on him as much as we are? Probably not.but whether he is town or scum we might be able to look at his wagon and find some of the scum on it

This is such a wishy washy almost defense kind of post. Like you want to defend him without calling him town.

Skybird, you are town reading House for something you and I both believe he does as town and scum. I don't understand why.

Taly, I mostly got that impression because you are still making points against him and trying to justify unvoting with things like the fact that he is L-4 so early or wanting to see him play without pressure. Even calling him bad town feels like an excuse. I think it's possible you just don't want your name on the wagon.

I don't get it. I'm interpreting conflicted data here and it makes me suspicious of you people. Do you guys really think I'm in it with Ozgin and/or Dragon? If so, you've never stated why.

I don't think Ozgin or dragonspawn is scum WITH you, no.

Ozgin, ISO me. I'm pretty sure you'll find my point on you in about three of my last five posts.

Who are you thinking taly doesn't want to associate with?

I don't think Taly wants to be lumped in with those voting Ozgin.

Titus, why would scum NOT want to lynch the other team? That makes no sense.

Radiant, why are you in this game?

Varsoon, I'd love to know your super secret dragonspawn tell but outting roles is bad, so *shrug*. Let me at least ask this. Are you sure enough that if he flips town, it means you were lying or could you be wrong?

I don't know that he is town. I think he is town.

And who specifically on the wagon doesn't taly want to associate with?

[Varsoon]

You have 26 pages.
That's enough.

[dragonspawn]

Yes I'm going to figure out the game in 26 pages.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. But no one is that good.

[Varsoon]

I don't expect you to have figured out the game.
I expect you to have more content, especially since you've admitted that your approach is to ask questions.
What did you get from asking those things?
How have those answers influenced your reads?

There's a big difference between feigning investigation/effort and actually doing investigation/putting in effort.
In the last three pages I went head-to-head with Ozgin and was able to divine a lot about his approach to the game, his role, how he feels about several aspects of the game, and how his logic works.
Through that dialogue, I am now able to put a lot more confidence in my townread in Ozgin, when just pages ago I wasn't convinced he was town.
That's what I accomplished with one player in the space of about five posts back-and-forth of actually trying to interact and understand him.
I want to know what your results are. I want to see what you've accomplished.
'cus right now, I'm getting a whole lot of nothin' outside of some faint reads.

[dragonspawn]

I don't rush results. But here is what I will tell you.

House is off. He's lurking far more than usual.

Ozgin is probably town. Titus probably is too.

Boonskies is towniest there can be.

Duck is still scummy.

Radiant shouldn't be playing this game but is probably town.

We should be putting a lot more pressure on the people who haven't said much.

You and cheetory have something going on.

I need to play day 1 better. Because every game gets me scum read early on.

Now, care to step up and tell us what you've learned?

[dragonspawn]

Oh hi guys

So I'm finishing up exams this week, so I'll probably not be able to get to this game until saturday-ish. Should be all set after that, though!

Finals over yet?

[FA_Q2]

Sorry I am late. Catching up now.

Might be awhile - I have to get enough time together so I car read the thread - it is already pretty long.

[Varsoon]

Townpool is Bookitty, Cheetory, Drixx, Egg, House, Kitz, Ozgin, Silverwolf, Skybird, and Taly.

Scumpool is Dragonspawn, laladucks, T S O, Titus

Everyone else needs to contribute a bit more (but the game has only been up for like 3 days so it's no big).

Cheetory is trustworthy. I tested him a few ways.
Ozgin is trustworthy. I tested him in a few ways.
Titus has a few things I need to work out with Titus when Titus is around and I'm around. We need to to pow-wow. I'm scumreading her until then.

I'm not sure where to place Boonskies and Radiant Cowbells. They tend to be VI-status in most games we've shared. I know Boonskies has some weird weakness for hammers and RC likes to post really strange and potentially incriminating fluff. To be honest, I usually trust these sorts to sort themselves out and hopefully not make it to a LYLO situation.

I've got some other things stewing, but I'm waiting for a mod PM and hoping that stuff will work out naturally.

I can elaborate on any of these points, too. :3

[Aneninen]

Anen, there are two cases with the "citizen" thing. I'll give you Titus's first and then mine. Note that I don't like Titus's
1) Ozgin said citizen. That means VT. Why would he claim VT so early?
2) Ozgin used the uncommon term "citizen" rather than "townie". The sample PM says "citizen". He looked at the sample PM.

To tell the truth, I think both cases are pigeon poop in themselves. Ozgin's

reactions

to those cases were scummy. Especially that big red shout.

Problem is no matter how big my ego gets, I'm not going to magically become scum.

Superbloc. Interesting. Not townbloc.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Varsoon's 559 is a post I totally agree with.

In all, I'm not feeling the Ozgin lynch at the moment, I also find Dragons singular posts to be more alarming other than Ozgins reactions. Since quite a few people are more sure of Dragon-scum, and because Dragon hasn't committed so much to the game - whereas,

we haven't seen Ozgin much other than him constantly defending himself

. I think it will provide more info. to encourage Ozgin to do something else.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
My problem with Dragon is the way he defends Ozgin and some other posts too (eg. the things I quoted above), not the amount of content he provides.
As for Ozgin. Again, the

way

he defends himself, including bringing up the old issues all the time, and the mysterious Varsoon-case showing up out of nowhere, but after he had been accused of flailing and overly-defensive.

@Anen, in order: Yes, I'm not, Ignore that, No it isn't, and I didn't say that.
@Taly I think my next scumspect would be Kitz, bur I don't have as much on her.
@Egg - What's your point on me again?

I bet that went for my 547.
"Yes" – so, you're defending DragonSpawn in return, aren't you?
"I'm not" – Yes, you're flailing. And you've answered nothing on the other part. I don't think Titus's calling you scum because of an analogy.
"No, it isn't" – Yes, it is.
"I didn't say that" – but you're acting as if there were nothing against you. The red shout was a blatant proof of that.
As for your Egg-answer, I think he posted something about it on the very same page.

Why am I concerned with my own survival? Isn't everyone? If my wincon is to eliminate scum, why wouldn't I scumhunt? Why does my scumhunt have to be because it's you specifically? You're just the scummiest ISO I've read.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

And I don't have a beef, like I said - I read ISOs, I thought you contradicted yourself a lot and were extremely wishy washy. This is just a flail? seriously? I'm still at like, L-5. I don't have to flail until L-2.

Why would

anyone

need to flail at L–2???

VOTE: tso
Of all the votes for ozgin this is the one with absolutely no explanation.
I'd like some reason why you are on the wagon tso. What do you think of the argument on oz and what do you think of his reaction to it?

Whut?

[Skybird]

Egg, thanks I understand what you are asking now. Yes I was town reading house at that moment. I think I posted that after his 1st 5 posts. Since then, he has done something that really pisses him off when it happens to him. (answering a question directed towards another player) I don't think he's been back to explain why he did that. (I need to look to see if he did this.) Bottom line, right now I'm not inclined to lynch House day 1.

[Aneninen]

Woah, the laladucks wagon really folded into being a dragonspawn wagon, huh?

I too noticed that.
Because of being in a Multiball, that's not an alignment tell

in itself

on either of them.

btw Mad Max is fucking awesome.

And I hope you're not Miss Gilchrist from Agatha Christie's

After the Funeral

...

Nah, as much as you like to believe that. There's been no real case presented on Dragon nor has Dragon done anything near the level of scummy as Ozgin. I'm thinking scum are trying not to cross lynch each other.

Mm-hm.
DragonSpawn may be a partner of Ozgin or a counter built by someone.
Why did you say that last sentence there?

But Titus.
What happens when Dragon flips scum?

We lynch Ozgin.
What happens when Ozgin flips scum?

My personal opinion.
If we lynch Dragon and he flips scum, it's very possible that Ozgin's scum too.
If we lynch Dragon and he flips town, Ozgin still may be scum.
If we lynch Ozgin and he flips scum, Dragon may or may not be scum.
If we lynch Ozgin and he flips town, that's not informative about Dragon.
Still, Ozgin looks scummier.

Taly, I defended myself and then built a scum case. I'm at least actively pushing towards scum hunting, and not just trying to weigh in on every situation from the outside. You're playing cautiously, meticulously, and as if you're very removed. That's how I played my scumgame in 180.

And I was reading this in my mind like this: "look, look how town I am!"

@Ozgin, you going to run out of insults? Come on. You can do better than calling me "childish" and stubborn. Hell, the latter is accurate. I've seen scum and made the mistake of letting them go because it was too early. That's a mistake.

Lololololol, can I have the adjective "stubborn"? Can I? ^_^

It's ok.
Scum won't let me live long so you don't have to worry about me.

No scum motivation is seen for this post in a Multiball. In general, no scum motivation is seen in RC's posts in a Multiball.

Holy crap, that dragon wagon is terrible. Get the fuck off of him.

Why?

Sorry Titus, but I can't ride this wagon forever. I hope you can see through the initial abrasiveness and realize Ozgin's points are actually really good. The Ozgin wagon sucks.

WHUT?

I don't rush results. But here is what I will tell you.
(1) House is off. He's lurking far more than usual.
(2) Ozgin is probably town. Titus probably is too.
(3) Boonskies is towniest there can be.
(4) Duck is still scummy.
(5) Radiant shouldn't be playing this game but is probably town.
(6) We should be putting a lot more pressure on the people who haven't said much.
(7) You and cheetory have something going on.
(8) I need to play day 1 better. Because every game gets me scum read early on.
Now, care to step up and tell us what you've learned?

(1) I expressed my opinion about this before. Pigeon poop.
(2) More defense on Ozgin and a buddying attempt on Titus
(3) ...And Boonie defended you a couple of posts above. Flap-flap-flap-flap-poooooooooop!
(4) That's not only pigeon poop, that's crow poop! He hasn't done anything recently!
(5) Sooner or later you'll understand RC's style. It's not entirely pigeon poop.
(6) And I used to advocate the same thing when I was scum.
(7) Yeahwhatever.
(8) Excuses, excuses.

I still think the Ozgin wagon is better but this isn't a bad one either. A whole "Freshsky Frenzy" could be launched upon this readlist, there are so many kinds of pooping birds in it. ^_^

Scumpool is Dragonspawn, laladucks, T S O, Titus

TSO? Titus? Whut?

Cheetory is trustworthy. I tested him a few ways.
Ozgin is trustworthy. I tested him in a few ways.

Care to explain?

[Taly]

Taly, I defended myself and then built a scum case. I'm at least actively pushing towards scum hunting, and not just trying to weigh in on every situation from the outside. You're playing cautiously, meticulously, and as if you're very removed. That's how I played my scumgame in 180.

Meticulous? That's kind of like me in general.

But you think this is my CAUTIOUS play?

Do you think I switch wagons because I'm trying to be cautious?

Really, my play so far is more of my actual genuine thoughts and feels. A lot more like emotional-taly - not even close to being removed.

@Taly, I can't lynch more than one scum at a time. So I'm identifying townreads and working outward. I can tell who I don't want to lynch because of the fact the wagons suck. Then I'd work to anything else.

Who would you not want to lynch today? Could you also refer to me to a specific case on Ozgin?

Also, you haven't mentioned much about your reads - so I'm not sure what to think once we see a flip from Ozgin.

Observation point. People resisted Ozgin the Obvscum because it was too early to get a large wagon. Yet Dragonspawn has a wagon out of nowhere that is larger.

Noted. Total shit.

Taly, I'm looking at you in particular.

If you think that is the true essence of why I changed my vote then you are wrong. Please re-read my post where I switch. Plus, the Ozgin and Dragon wagons are both at the same amount. Stop treating as if everything other than your tunnel is worth shit. I have yet to be in a fucking situation where hard-pushing someones wagon in confidence leads to helpful things in town - especially in D1, and the idea that that is mostly all you've done so far, from aside of trying to get people to go on your wagon and putting down other alternatives that are just as valid - really does not make your push and reasoning come much from a town perspective.

Yeah, I can see that your push on Ozgin can be from genuine belief - but you aren't even 100% sure that Ozgin is scum either, and frankly, I really don't know IF you have any OTHER scum reads. I don't know what your thought process is Titus.

*Takes Deep Breath*
OK, got that out of my system. <3

Also. If you read my post, you would know - that I may or may not stay off the Ozgin wagon for good, so I don't know why you're looking at me when I'm sticking to my own formed judgments. Hell, I'm going to ISO Dragon and Ozgin so I may just go back to my vote. Is that a big deal?

595

Well for one, posts like 594 seem a bit off-handed. Not sure what you were referring to, nor meaning.

It is late where I am, tomorrow - I'm most likely going to ISO both you and Ozgin to settle my reads, I'll give my thoughts on your posts - why I think some seem really weird, and then I'll make my decision on the wagons. I may or may not change.

So far, you haven't done much to defend yourself from your wagon Dragon, which makes me a bit curious, versus Ozgin, all he's done is react to people suspecting him, and then go after Varsoon in particular. Off face-value, you guys don't seem to be towny.

I haven't done much to defend myself? How can you claim that? I've responded to every question about me that I've seen. I haven't shied away from anything. And I am denying that I am scum. What the heck do you consider defending myself?

Not only have I been defending myself, I've been asking questions and trying to figure people out.

Multiple times I've asked you to show me where I've been fake. All you pointed to was the posts where I mistakenly thought Titus post was yours. When I realized the mistake I corrected myself.

Tell me, am I this aggressive as scum? Why the heck would I be doing anything to draw attention to myself in a large game?

Actually, it's the fact that I don't perceive you as very aggressive that makes me think you haven't done much to defend yourself.

A wagon on you is growing, and a lot of your game so far is mostly asking questions and figuring people out, there hasn't been a lot of judgments, and some of your posts like : 594 and 616 - seem contrived because it really does not give info and leaves intentional room for thinking. 558 and 560 seem like small notes you're making, you don't expand on them - and you don't do much in response to people suspecting you. I don't know where you're coming from on 534

This isn't all of the posts, but these are just small things that are pinging. Also I never explicitly said you were fake because of your mistake, but since I haven't gotten a huge town sense from you so far, it feels a little weird.

I don't know, I've never seen you in a towny position before and from what I'm seeing, I'm feeling as though there are a few things in your posts that are a bit suspicious.

Also, you never answered my questions in 548

623

Wasn't really expecting your vote Varsoon, what theory would lead to Dragon being most likely scum?

I wonder if it's similar to Boo's theory. ._.

Could you clarify your theory?

Also Varsoon....... Yeah, you've been scum with Dragon before. Do you think that this is like his scum-play?

@Egg

I haven't entirely just brought points against him, I've even said my vote wasn't entirely solid - at the same time, I've asked him some questions.

Also, to be honest - my unvote on the Ozgin wagon was a mixture of things.

I've townread Ozgin before, didn't originally understand the arguments with him.
A bit unsure of what to make of Titus right now.
I don't like how quickly of a spark Ozgins wagon came up, and I'm not really trusting who was on it.
I wanted to give light to the possibility of Dragon being suspect, since several people say they've made theories and etc.
Dragons overall play seemed a bit off to me, and I've explained this in part already.

So yeah, part of unvoting Ozgin was because I didn't want to go on that wagon, since I was still also unsure about my read on him.

But I wasn't trying to put distance on any specific person. It was general thinking I was having, if I was trying to avoid associates, then I would have addressed them already.

Am I making any sense? I really need to work on being a bit more concise on how I explain my thoughts and feels. I'm getting better and all though....

I'm 16 years old, with the intellectual mind of a 32 year old. >_<

I'm not using this as an excuse though, but that's how it is.

[Taly]

Final Notes

Varsoon, why convo can you have with Dragon in twilight tell that that much?

Anen, I'm a bit curious about your reads, you've been posting replies to people but I haven't seen much decision on your readings on others yet

[SilverWolf]

Hey, Still sick. I'm re-reading what I missed. Initial thoughts are Oz and dragon are both scummy and I even have a strong feeling they could be on the same scumteam. The signs are there. I will read and elaborate on everything and explain but I STILL have a mild fever and trying to be coherent in a fast moving, complex game in a feverish state is probably not going to be helpful to the game or my health. I'll put a couple points on what I've observed so far because I'm insane and like to post in mafia games when ill I guess. Can anyone direct me to a support group for this?

dragon-I think your T S O vote is garbage. He's barely posted and if you want to know why he voted for Ozgin, your first thing to do should of been to go @T S O-Hey, Why did you vote for Ozgin?" Instead you immediately throw down a vote on him the minute you start getting pressure. T S O is a very safe vote because he's unlikely to fight back much since he hasn't posted much. I'm completely null on T S O. How you can have him pegged as scum is beyond me but it's a safe vote that won't hurt you much.

Here's my issue with dragon: He's very superficial and shallow in his approach to the game. He asks a few questions here and there and makes a few comments but none of what he does really digs into the meat and potatoes of figuring out the game or who scum is. In other words he appears busy but also safe and that kind of play is scummy to me. Plus, his defense of Ozgin is kind of calculated that reminds me of a how a scummate would do it. And yes, I can elaborate on this when I feel better and point out specific things. Also, the "I always look like scum D1 self meta is like meh"

Ozgin's reaction to his wagon was super, hyper aggressive and defensive. Now, there's town flail and there's scum flail. As town, I get quite upset when I get wagoned for crappy reasons. I also have gotten really fucking frustrated as scum caught out on D1. What I don't like about Ozgin's response is he's not using it to go, "shit, I should give some reads, look at my wagon and convince these guys I'm town" Instead he's yelling at everyone and insulting people. He also pointed out he's frustrated non-scum faction IIRC and that's like "Hey, look at how frustrated town I am folks"

His case on Varsoon was like going through his ISO and painting every fucking thing in it as scum. Well shit, if I wanted to find scum in someone, I could do the same thing because damn if I am looking for it that hard with the mindset of "let's see how I can paint this person as scum" I'm going to find it no matter what the alignment of the person is. That's not the best way to scumhunt IMO. I do need to re-read when feeling better his 1v1 with Varsoon and see if I can make anything of that but later.

I actually feel like RC is town. Sometimes a person doesn't have to post a lot for me to get that feel. It's what they post and how that tells me things. Varsoon comes off as town because his posts look genuine and the least calculated of anyone in the game. He's very invested in the game as well. His switch off Ozgin scum to Ozgin town is not something I'm liking but I need to re-read that 1v1 and not even sure what his latest dragon points about being 95% sure he's scum even mean or if I even want to know tbh. He also strikes me as one of those "never a dull moment if you play with him in a game" types of players. I find his looking for friends to be a null tell. I mean, if he was going to buddy people he can buddy them and be done with it. Blatantly looking for friends sounds like a personality tell more than an alignment tell, IMO.

Other reads: Bookitty seems different from her last scum game to me in a way that looks town, like Egg's posts so far for town, House is weird but I've seen his scum game and he's not really doing that but way too early to say here (he's null), Titus's Ozgin tunnel and moonlogicy logic looks town to me or at least Titus town. I have a scary townread on Cheetory because it came rather quickly and he makes me totally paranoid. I like anen's posts because the points he is making are generally along the lines of what I am thinking as well (nulltown at best because I need to see a lot more). Taly's analysis looks townish to me as well. Kitz is kind of withdrawn and her set up spec is kind of meh and she's not adding much to the game (leaning scum), la la switched up her play and looks better but I need to see more here-scumread not gone but diminished, Skybird makes me wonder as well. She's a pretty passive and very hard to read player from what I remember so not sure but she's not ringing any townbells either. I guess she's posted enough I should have some "feels" by now and don't. boon is typical boon and I misread him routinely so null. No one else has posted nearly enough for me to try to read yet but I'll bet there's scum in the non-participants right now. I think figuring out a couple scumreads and trying to townhunt might be a better approach then trying to read every single player in the game right now the way it's currently going.

OK, question time:

Egg-You pointed out you didn't like how you think I'm avoiding the Oz wagon. Why is that a problem on me specifically but not on Bookitty or Taly or anyone else who is not voting Oz but has expressed suspicion of him?

Ozgin-Hi, Do you have any reads on anyone else besides Varsoon? What do you think of the people on your wagon?

boon-What specifically do you dislike about dragon's wagon and how do you come to this conclusion so quickly when as you say, you've barely had time to post? Who's the scum on his wagon?

Cheet-Oz was different in the hood in 180, more mellow and relaxed, I don't think I can use this to read him here because I was a scumbucket in that game who thought Oz might be a fellow scumbucket so that colored my view of him there. What is your current read on Ozgin?

Hell, I'm sure I have more questions and observations but this much took a lot out of me so I'll be back later.

[Egg]

Dragonspawn, "I think he is town" is more than you said in your initial defense though. It was still wishy washy. As for Taly, I don't know specifically. It just felt like "oh shit get my name off this wagon". I think it's more the fact that the wagon is being scrutinized and will be scrutinized than any specific player(s) on the wagon.

Anen, I agree that the reaction was bad. He can't "retract" the fact that he said citizen. That doesn't just go away.

Skybird. Hold up. Where did House answer someone else's question? Because yeah he does get pissed when people do that? Also, your read feels weird. Like you are looking for reasons not to lynch him but can't come up with any.

Taly, you do realize that with multiple scum teams, Titus possibly being scum and the speed of the wagon are bad reasons to unvote, right? I can understand the rest, but you seem like you are re-asserting my point about you. And yeah concise would be good.

Silverwolf, can you show me what you mean as far as Bookitty? Regarding Taly though, my recent posts should show that you are wrong and I actually do have an issue with that. Probably more than with you in fact.

[Skybird]

Skybird. Hold up. Where did House answer someone else's question? Because yeah he does get pissed when people do that? Also, your read feels weird. Like you are looking for reasons not to lynch him but can't come up with any.

He does it in 409. The question was from Dragon to me.

Right now House doesn't concern me as much as other people. I know he's going to be a hard player for me to get a read on. Titus is another person I have a hard time getting a read on. For now, I haven't seen enough from either to feel comfortable putting them in one pile or another.

I'd like to see more pressure on Kitz because I'm still scum reading her. I've been following the Ozgin thing and frankly I'm leaning scum on him at the moment. I need to re-evaluate Dragon because he wasn't pinging my scumdar, but people have put up some solid points against him.

I'm going to be reading and evaluating this morning while I have the laundry going. I'll put up a fuller reads list soon.

[SilverWolf]

Yes I'm going to figure out the game in 26 pages.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. But no one is that good.

dragon-no one is asking you to solve the game in 26 pages but you should have some concrete thoughts you can share by now, there's been a ton of content, your reads don't have to be set in stone this early but you should have some idea of what you think of a few of the more active players

What is your read on Titus right now or Cheetory for example?

Egg-I'll give you more detail on Bookitty later, don't let me forget. Yeah, I see your issues with Taly's off Ozgin wagon posts but you had pointed out mine a couple times as well and I was more curious what you are looking for specifically when someone is suspicious of a person and not on a wagon yet

I guess I feel I can't be on more than one wagon at a time but I should be able to express suspicion of more than one person at a time and dragon's such scum it hurts me right now, like for real. But it would not upset me much if Oz ended up being the lynch instead. Both flips are liable to be scum and both flips are going to be very informative.

[SilverWolf]

dragon-no one is asking you to solve the game in 26 pages but you should have some concrete thoughts you can share by now, there's been a ton of content, your reads don't have to be set in stone this early but you should have some idea of what you think of a few of the more active players

What is your read on Titus right now or Cheetory for example?

K, after reading 634 these questions are no longer valid.

How about this? Elaborate please on what you think is going on between Cheetory and Varsoon.

How can boon be the towniest town there is right now? Like what? Explain.

[SilverWolf]

Varsoon-How can you go from Ozgin in scum, let's lynch him, go go go to now he's part of your townbloc? I don't get that progression there and I'd like you to elaborate on this please.

[Kitz]

I don't want to sound biased, but I'm scumleaning on those who are scumreading me by pulling of their behind that the 14:3:3:1 thing is a "fake townslip" or a "scumtell", and spite being explained, you continue to milk this as a scum motivation. There's the players who also sheep on this particular thing. This makes me just see players who are desperate.
There's no other reasons that I read that are scummy about myself, so yeah, I bias myself on that these players are just scummy.

What is even Towny about this anyway? Can someone tell me? No? Then why was it even done as an attempt of a fake townslip?
The only thing I can really think of is faking looking inexperienced. I didn't read "Multiball" in Setup, and I skipped over that thing in General Rules which imo should've been in Setup (because rules should be followed and not broken, so imo wrong placement of text). Sue me.

Because of that, I'm growing apathetic and silent because, let's be honest, it's rather discouraging that in every game I've been in, players has picked at least 1 something and just tunneled on this particular thing.

Honest question, what can you expect more pressure on me on this stupid matter? Force me to elaborate that I infact am stupid and didn't read things proper? The only thing I can see from pressure is just a bull excuse to put me close to a lynch, or force me to claim a role, even though everyone cries that there's other scummy players. Well done.

Rant over.