Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia (Game Over)

[PeaceBringer]

[PeaceBringer]

most folks here are new to me... so this should be interesting...
glad to meet you too wrong and cheet-

[PeaceBringer]

sup PB

yo a name I recognize...

[PeaceBringer]

most folks here are new to me... so this should be interesting...
glad to meet you too wrong and cheet-

I was wondering, but have you changed your playstyle recently? Do you not random vote anymore?

Hito -- thank you for that. Most mods don't do that so for some reason it didn't register in my head.

SKOT random votes, peacebringer has not engaged in that behavior... I don't think in this current iteration I have laid a RVS vote but rather picked up on someone elses reaction getting. Cannot state that for fact though as might have... now WTH are you?

[PeaceBringer]

I was wondering, but have you changed your playstyle recently? Do you not random vote anymore?

have you played with PB before? Are you an alt?

Know of him. I am an alt, yes.

Any particular reason you didn't disclose that in your first post? I know I assumed you were a newbie until you brought up past play of an '04 player.

I was expecting a lot more dynamic of a first few hours when I saw how fast everyone confirmed. Sad times.

know he was referring to the play of Sharpest-knife-on-tree...
my being an '04 player is irrelevant as that was a year and half until I got sick of things. I came back here in past year. Got hyper frustrated initially with the current culture. Ended up replacing out 3 times as PB and all ended up being scum. Ended up banned in any iteration for a month. Came in as SKOT to try and learn, did "random voting" with using random.org to get reactions. Continued to do so but really did not want to stick with the alt. Left again and did not intend coming back at all because still super frustrated and then someone looked to fill a game and asked me to play in their game, I managed that one okay so decided to stick around as think I am getting my mindset straight for this culture. I do tend to be antagonistic and generate heat, but not atagonistic in an aggressive way, just generate reactions.

[PeaceBringer]

fyi- I had no idea this was based on a show or anime or anything so I have ZTK and no nothing of the country being mentioned...

[PeaceBringer]

good place to start I guess-

vote oto

[PeaceBringer]

of course things are extrapolating, everything is at this point... picking stuff out of air, every once and awhile you actually hit scum

[PeaceBringer]

it is typical around here to pull content out of nowhere, it is what is done

[PeaceBringer]

I thought I voted quilford
VOTE: vote quilford

[PeaceBringer]

There are RQS questions. I’ve copied and pasted them below for you:

that has nothing to do with the game...
a
b
c
d
e
f
g
there is my answer and I don't care what you think

[PeaceBringer]

I also really don't like this post, mainly for similar things in nature that I disliked about KoP. Although PB actually commented on things that happened his votes don't really make much sense to me.

that whole thing is shtick and while I support schtick I don't have to answer to it... I really do not care if I do not make sense to you. And as such, while you may have awareness of my nature, you really haven't got a clue how I play.

[PeaceBringer]

I also really don't like this post, mainly for similar things in nature that I disliked about KoP. Although PB actually commented on things that happened his votes don't really make much sense to me.

that whole thing is shtick and while I support schtick I don't have to answer to it... I really do not care if I do not make sense to you. And as such, while you may have awareness of my nature, you really haven't got a clue how I play.

I think you would care if it didn't make sense to me. I mean if you really believe in your vote currently is then you would want people to support you and also vote that said person, but if your vote doesn't make any sense then how will you get support for it? (answer is you won't)

Your posts are coming off coasting without getting your hands dirty currently. The fact you aren't taking a stance bothers me, you are just coming into the thread to defend yourself.

It's time like this I wish I had a double vote because I wouldn't mind voting PB or Kop right now.

I again from a different philosophy and a different play style. I look for those I trust, that is similar. I don't go making up bullshit reasons for voting someone. If someone looks suspect I vote them. If I want to gauge further reaction I vote them. If I want to watch what is going on I vote someone and watch or don't vote at all. I believe the process is run someone up, get a claim, and evaluate. Sometimes during the course of a run up you can gauge more. I am trying to mesh my style with the culture here, but I can only do what I know to do. It is the reason Skot random votes and the reason I here am generally not voting in RVS and watching. If I do not make sense to you, it is because you do not understand this style of play. I do not want to turn this into game theory and game play discussion but I am accommodating you here.

[PeaceBringer]

unvote-

[PeaceBringer]

I am comfortable with the oto or quil votes
back to

vote quilford...

-popcorn-

[PeaceBringer]

I am comfortable with the oto or quil votes
back to

vote quilford...

-popcorn-

you unvoted, quilford prod-dodged, you revoted

want to walk me through that?

just looking at the votes and who is one whom-
I like competing run ups...

[PeaceBringer]

and things have change since I posted that vote, almost voted oto...
may as well inform him of

intent to put at L-1

may as well

claim oto

...
or you can sit around and hope folks change their mind...

[PeaceBringer]

How can Otolia's last post be so gross and yet PeaceBringer acknowledging how gross that post is be even grosser

truly, this is a miracle of modern science

I didn't acknowledge anything about a particular post... I am telling someone they are at claiming state, as this is how the game is played.

[PeaceBringer]

Also PB, I unvoted Otalia so you'd only be making him L-2. Feel free.

WTH did you do that?

[PeaceBringer]

I don't claim D1.

so you are an anti-town jerk then I see...
anyone who takes such a stand I will vote for on policy as it is anti-game and antitown...
just stupid!

Vote oto...

[PeaceBringer]

Also PB, I unvoted Otalia so you'd only be making him L-2. Feel free.

so you think Kop is still more compelling than this juicy juicy oto/PB ballet?

UT- wth with the misrep?

[PeaceBringer]

I am comfortable with the oto or quil votes
back to

vote quilford...

-popcorn-

why were you voting him before this?

what makes you comfortable voting him?

he caught my attention with his interactions
liked the folks that were voting him...

[PeaceBringer]

So you were willing to take Oto to L-1, and you have no idea why the hell I'd unvote Otolia, but you're going for an alignment-null policy reason to vote Otolia? That's interesting.

And UT isn't misrepping, he was referring to MY vote on Kop.

I don't like the manipulative I won't f-ing claim on day one bullshit. Everyone gets run up day one soon or later. Folks playing that game is just BS manipulative crap. It is antitown and antigame and it pisses me off. The game is all about running someone up, getting a claim and evaluate. All anyone has on day one is will speculation... to claim otherwise is bullshit. And I hate refusals to claim and will not budge if someone is pulling that shit.

[PeaceBringer]

So you were willing to take Oto to L-1, and you have no idea why the hell I'd unvote Otolia, but you're going for an alignment-null policy reason to vote Otolia? That's interesting.

And UT isn't misrepping, he was referring to MY vote on Kop.

calling my interaction with OTO as ballet is a misrep...

[PeaceBringer]

What do you think I could possibly bring to the table by claiming now ? Everyone is thinking I'm scum so unless I'm a role I can prove immediately (like DayVig), me claiming wouldn't bring anything to the table. And the worst in this, is that if you're town and I'm getting lynched you've just served yourself a perfect D2 lynch for scum to push without risking anything. As for the accusation of playing against my alignment, well you can shove it. I have played badly today but I have not played against my alignment, nor will I ever do that.

flat out refusal to claim day one and playing Manuplative BS is that. It take this as a soft VT claim. I come from an entirely different philosophy but philosophy has nothing to do with stating out right "I never claim day one" bullshit.

[PeaceBringer]

Oto, you drew attention to yourself day 1 with you play, you get runup, you claim, town evaluates and either you get lynced or we move on. This is how the game is played. Sure, around here, folks like to let run ups tail off and go elsewhere... it is not how I play

[PeaceBringer]

I don't like the manipulative I won't f-ing claim on day one bullshit. Everyone gets run up day one soon or later. Folks playing that game is just BS manipulative crap. It is antitown and antigame and it pisses me off. The game is all about running someone up, getting a claim and evaluate. All anyone has on day one is will speculation... to claim otherwise is bullshit. And I hate refusals to claim and will not budge if someone is pulling that shit.

Why do you care if a scum player refuses to claim?

it is antitown, it is antithical to how the game is played... flat out stating never claim day one is just manipulative BS...

[PeaceBringer]

Why do you care if a scum player refuses to claim?

let me add, claims are information, without a claim there is less information...

[PeaceBringer]

Why is scum being manipulative antithetical to how the game is played?

so you know oto for fact is scum...
I don't
he is a player in the game. His behaviors was suspiscious so run up.
Refusal to claim goes against the very heart of the game...
it is basically and F-U to the rest of the players.

[PeaceBringer]

to add it is opposed to game play as it makes one player making themself more inportant then the game. Such an action is designed to elict never being run up on day one and is not in line with fair play. It is overall manipulitative and contrary what is sound play in this game. He made it beyond this game by saying never claims day 1. He took it beyond this game.

[PeaceBringer]

Why is scum being manipulative antithetical to how the game is played?

so you know oto for fact is scum...
I don't
he is a player in the game. His behaviors was suspiscious so run up.
Refusal to claim goes against the very heart of the game...
it is basically and F-U to the rest of the players.

No, I don't know Otolia is scum.

I do know that you were willing to put him at L-1 and that you were shocked I unvoted him. So you should think the chance of his being town is pretty low. Given that, your anger at something that's only against the game if he's town seems exaggerated.

it is not exaggerated... again, I come from a different culture all together. I have no idea if he is town or not. His behavior is suspect, so voting, voting leads to claim. His chance of being town is 50-50. When players get up, I expect to see a claim. A STATEMENT THAT NEVER CLAIMS DAY ONE- is manipulative.

And if you think my frustration is not truthful, go examine my meta. I stopped the site in 2005 after stuff I couldn't live with. I even left this site over frustration over similar issues but came back to try somewhere and things had been going okay. It is a cultural difference but this kind of stuff gets me. Where I come from refusal to claim will get the person policy lynched period. But that is on per game. If someone were to claim never claim on day one they would be summarily lynched day one till they left or changed.

[PeaceBringer]

I am comfortable with the oto or quil votes
back to

vote quilford...

-popcorn-

why were you voting him before this?

what makes you comfortable voting him?

he caught my attention with his interactions
liked the folks that were voting him...

What

interactions?

And

which

people voting him did you want to sheep?

the ones that he had... don't like my votes, vote me, I don't care. I am not sheeping anyone. I see folks i think town voting. Stop pretending that folks know crap on day 1. Only ones who do are mafia. Go back and look to what I responded to, it is there.

[PeaceBringer]

I thought I voted quilford
VOTE: vote quilford

oh hey, I found your original vote, PeaceBringer!

Wanna explain how I'm supposed to glean any information about what interactions you disliked from an empty vote?

Clearly that was not the time I had concerns, there should be a post prior to that... I see something suspect I vote. Or I vote to get a reaction. Or I vote for other things. I am intuitive. I don't make of reasons to vote, I vote when I and how I "feel" like voting.

[PeaceBringer]

Oh, it looks like I meant to make a post, thought I did and ended up not. It was the shifting of votes and the interactions before that, which seemed odd. Particularly I think a UT vote...

[PeaceBringer]

Elaborate! I am thirsty for your intellect.

I have nothing to eleborate, I don't make up stuff... and you really don't elaborate either, from past experience...

[PeaceBringer]

Have I ever even played a game with you?

yes, we have... shadows and light

[PeaceBringer]

Have I ever even played a game with you?

yes, we have... shadows and light

I don't even remember that being a game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30965
good game to forget...

[PeaceBringer]

PB, I don't get you

all the other stuff you posted is noise and this sums it up...

[PeaceBringer]

My vote on PB wasn't just his anti-RQS - it was his overly long explanation to me and Wrong Song about why he wouldn't participate. Too much protest for not enough meat.

oh please tell me please how length of response is indicative of someone being scum or not? For me it is not, in fact, if anything if scum I am probably a bit less antagonistic

[PeaceBringer]

PB, you spend far more time being all "I don't do RQS" then it would have taken you to actually do RQS. Something Shakesperian line here that I forgot. Oh and I'll look into your scum and town meta at some point but I've found that scum usually are less antagonistic.

nope, actually it took me all of 3 seconds in response, the rest is in your over the top response to my antagonism. I certainly could of simply said something in a far less antagonistic way... I responded antagonistically and you in turn responded the way you did, which was to take an atangonistic refusal and decide, oh my, the guy is antagonistic, he has to be scum. Antagonism in fact is not a scum behavior in most cases.

[PeaceBringer]

Are you being antagonistic? It's hard to tell I guess. Or maybe my sensors need recalibration.

I do agree that scum work better when they are being pleasant but their exceptions to common sense.

that post to your RQS nonsense was purposefully antangostic... it was not passive by any stretch... it was a direct slap across your face for pushing it the level you did there... really, you want to go with the shtick, no problem, but then you start stooping to pushing folks who did not answer- well, that was just too much... so I slapped at you... of course if the push hadn't been me, I may not have slapped at you

[PeaceBringer]

You metaphorically slapped me over RQS questions? As I said your tryin to hard, way too hard. Like I'm 0 to 100 real quick but you're exhibiting theatrics that are unnecessary in trying to make yourself seem antagonistic?

Genuine antagonism vs that Which stems naturally is a bit much.

go read my games and get back to me on that... also check out sharpest-knife-on-tree...

[PeaceBringer]

You metaphorically slapped me over RQS questions? As I said your tryin to hard, way too hard. Like I'm 0 to 100 real quick but you're exhibiting theatrics that are unnecessary in trying to make yourself seem antagonistic?

Genuine antagonism vs that Which stems naturally is a bit much.

add in the conclusion making, you can read me that way and you can start finding ways to confirm the conclusion. Your premise is that I am engaging in interactions over and above what would be normal for me and trying "too hard" to appear a certain way. More then likely it is your response to being slapped here.

[PeaceBringer]

Have I ever even played a game with you?

yes, we have... shadows and light

I don't even remember that being a game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30965
good game to forget...

I skimmed my ISO this game, I see nothing of my "meta" you invoked of not explaining shit. In fact, I saw passionate posting and explanations for my reads, so again, can you tell me why you think I'm someone who doesn't ever explain my reads?

my memory of the game is that you locked and raged and did not explain things. I recall tunneling. This is my memory of it. I don't recall much explanation. Now I got to go look to see if my memory is bad.

[PeaceBringer]

Have I ever even played a game with you?

yes, we have... shadows and light

I don't even remember that being a game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30965
good game to forget...

I skimmed my ISO this game, I see nothing of my "meta" you invoked of not explaining shit. In fact, I saw passionate posting and explanations for my reads, so again, can you tell me why you think I'm someone who doesn't ever explain my reads?

looking back, it is still how I would characterize your play... in fact you have this quote that supports my view

In case you don't understand how mafia works:

- Apply pressure on something
- Pressure gives you more reads
- Rinse & repeat

I applied pressure on something, they cracked and did something egregiously scummy, and now we're lynching them.

[PeaceBringer]

reck, to be clear, I have no problem with that... clearly

[PeaceBringer]

That doesn't support your view at all? Unless you think applying pressure means just going BAHHH YOU'RE SCUM forever without explaining why?

that essentially is what you did... very little explaining, and you did identify in that quote your playstyle is to reaction gauge, part of reaction gauging is to not make clear what your intent of behavior is...
sure you did some comments like proclaiming scumtells which out detail, which is really not explaining. In fact you have one post loudly and repeatedly proclaiming KILL IT in that game...

[PeaceBringer]

in that game reck, I called voided scum and did so and died. I really did not have words to put into explaining why voided was scum, but my intuition was right. I cannot always put words to what I react to...

[PeaceBringer]

Yes, and I also explained why I wanted to kill it and kept harping on those weak points.

probably a perceptual bit on me, looking back, you gave specific thoughts on PIE, which got listened to initially by me and then fate came in and mucked with everything. It appears he put you on tilt, got you run up and the game spun on to the disaster that it was... my perception is what it is... probably bad game to guage things on...

[PeaceBringer]

vote: Otolia

Otolia, any response to 126? Also, do you have any links to completed games where you've said you won't claim on D1?

looking at his wiki- 3 completed games all newbie games...
oto, did you play elsewhere, if so where?

[PeaceBringer]

@everyone

: I'm here, I'm answering and I'm at L-1.

actually this is a point in your favor- it was easy to miss...

[PeaceBringer]

@ChaosOmega : How am I supposed to know #126 was a question ? I'm sorry but it wasn't clear to me. Could you reformulate exactly please though I think what I explained below will cover what you meant to ask. As for your attempt to meta me I was against D1 claim as scum in Open 591 and against a massclaim as town in Micro 456. In the second game, the person asking for a massclaim (in this case a flavor claim) was scum.

so you did it once as scum and have motivation to stick to it as meta... which is just bad play. Micro's are a whole different animal and requests for mass claim are different. Not refusing to claim when essentially at claiming point.

[PeaceBringer]

I'm just... so bored.
Mostly because... I can't find anything to latch onto this game. Like, almost everyone is just floating around.

Literally nobody has said anything I find good enough to really dig into. Elusive is being just that. Really expected more out of UT/Quilford thus far.

Maybe it's because my brain isn't functioning at 100% with my new job, idk.

Also, it's worth pointing out that this game has been dominated by a select few. Seems like so many players are just skirting by without engaging. Otolia/hito have put out content, sure. Not really interested in Kop/Cheety despite my attempts to be.

everyone else is just a brown murky pile of bleeeeeeeeeeeeegh

so you feel you have no one to pressure, reck?

[PeaceBringer]

Yeah, I noticed Quilford kind of disappeared and he was under some pressure. Is that normal for him?

Otolia, what did you mean by this:

all 3 of them have the same criticism, but it's the "WHY IS EVERYONE SO PRO-ACTIVE ?!" That really irked me.

Specifically, it seems like you were actually saying the opposite that people were inactive in the posts you made so was this some sort of typo or?

Kop, numbers confuse me on a regular basis so you're right about L0 being the actual hammer. Its still scary and I wouldn't put a player at L1 unless I read them as scummy. I don't really like running up players to claim for the sake of it because I've played with that player who will hammer regardless if its the most anti-town thing to do as part of their shtick. What is your read on Otolio? Do you think a claim from him will be useful at this point? If he claims VT, then what? Do you move onto someone else or popcorn or what?

Actually Dinare, the above goes for you as well. Walk me through what you do if Otolio claims VT. Walk me through the logic of how this gambit (?) works.

Otolio, if you're at L1 then what is the town thing to do? I'm not advocating you claim as I would actually ask players to question\interrogate me and other players and make max use of day and if they still felt like it and I couldn't find an actual scum target to try to lynch then I would claim though. Also, since you are at L1 provide a reads list on all the players in the game so far, please?

Also someone mentioned mass claims, is that a serious suggestion?

PeaceBringer, I clicked on your Wiki and its very bereft of content. Therefore, link your two most recent finished scum and town games, please? Thanks.

I really don't really know how to wiki... PB has not had a scum game when I have came back from time as play. Sharpest-knife-on-tree has some... I don't have time to go digging right now. Before I went to Sharpest-knife-on-tree I had 3 scum draws and replaced out of all 3 for varied reasons not related to drawing scum, but my frustration levels were higher as was scum and felt more prone to stick it out as town.

[PeaceBringer]

without a lot of analysis.

FYI- "analysis" is null and playstyle- I gauge reactions and feels in a moment and some time find things that support that... if you end up reading "a lot of analysis" from me, well that may be a good time to FOS me. Also, when I have tried looking and meta and other things not in my wheelhouse I have not been on point really... it is best for me to do what I do... would you really want me to pretend?

[PeaceBringer]

PeaceBringer is a weird one. I don't like how he basically made up meta/history with me in order to kind of brush off my line of questioning, but I don't know if it's genuine or not. Certainly icky, but there's also something tonally about his posts that make me think 'town' for some reason.

Sorry reck, I think you are misperceiving what I meant or said. I basically was saying you are a reaction fisher and do not necessarily explain your voting/views. My recall perception was of that, it was my perception. Perceptions due tend to be flawed. So I did not make up anything and I was not "brushing" off your line of questing. I was not even reacting fishing you, just engaging in tit for tat dialogue and testing perceptions, which you have since corrected.

[PeaceBringer]

but I at least want to believe it's a bit of a scumtell how he executed it, because it was a huge jump in intensity for someone he was already willing to vote

why do you want to believe that, and why do you believe that without looking at anything I have done in the past. Oh, wait, you want me to dig up the games for you...

[PeaceBringer]

you already have a link to 1 game...
the PB scum games are not worthwhile as I replaced out of those 3. But feel free to even go back to 2004 games, just go dig into my posts and go back to the beginning...

[PeaceBringer]

I want to believe it because it's a cool catch and I'd love for it to be a knockout punch. Your general demeanor makes me think it's not a knockout punch, but it still seems significant to me.

Why would I go back to your games? Like I said, I do think you'd pursue this policy regardless of alignment. That's not what I'm contesting. What I'm saying is that the pattern doesn't seem consistent with you reading scum on Otolia before. When my scumreads do things I think are scum-incidative to the point of wanting to policy lynch them, I say "Hey look at this scumbag playin more scum stuff" and not "My scum lynch is now a policy lynch". It seems to make a lot more sense that you had a fake scum read and were happy to upgrade it to this real policy crusade. Especially because, assuming you're scum and Otolia is town, you know he's flipping town at the end and would love to have an alignment-irrelevant reason you're voting for him. Whereas as town you'd love for him to flip scum and confirm that crafty scumbags are trying to pull these gambits.

it is what a lot of people do around here... you make a "judgement" based on false ideals of what a person may or may not do without any gauge...
Basics of scumhunting- imo... you have a suspect, you get them run up, they claim, you evaluate and either lynch them or move on to another suspect. And guess what, people actually play this game without some of the nonsense that passes as scum hunting around here. I have seen over and over again folks proclaiming things as "scum" to lead to mislynch and they do the same thing based on same reasoning over and over again. Oto drew my attention, good a suspect as any, then he pulls the refusal to claim bullshit and I have made my thoughts on that matter clear.

[PeaceBringer]

I got a prod and I was on VLA, I guess I should have said something.

[PeaceBringer]

PB-town, I guess, is sure I'm scum and is just pushing me with whatever ammunition he has. The reason I don't think it's genuine is because he's only using his PL angle. It's like he tried to scumread me conventionally, got bored, and went with a PL because it's easier to argue. Real PB-town would have used both arguments to get me lynched.

actually slot looks town- someone refuses to claim any period and I am going to have said reaction (although may be more inclined to let slip as scum but that is WIFOM), and your slot was as good as suspect on day 1. I play you run up a suspect, get a claim, evaluate and make a decision. It is base of the game. I am not really into to picking nits or pulling reasons out of thin error and making judgments on null behaviors. The point of getting a claim has kind thrown out the window. Heck, old PB as scum, replaced out of one scum game because couldn't understand someone being run up to claim, not claiming and moving elsewhere. I understand that bit of the culture a bit more. There is no more replacing out from me regardless of game or alignment. And I would certainly push to claim as either alignment, so my play on that end is null. Please feel free to find any history of me "using both arguments" for anything, as I am different and that is not in my wheelhouse. So you there may be faulty expectations as this is Real PB-town.

[PeaceBringer]

Now stab can you recind the "won't claim" day 1 so I can move on as clearly the decision has been made to go elsewhere...

[PeaceBringer]

No one cares. We have 2 1/2 days left. Post reads and make a vote that isn't worthless.

hey, I am engaged in the game, why don't you poke at someone who is actually not participating and actually a problem regarding the game.

[PeaceBringer]

I'm actually pretty okay with a PeaceBringer lynch after this post.

really, what about that post that made you all warm and fuzzy over the prospect of my removal from the game. YOu have been pretty okay the whole time, so stop pretending otherwise. Really kinda dodgy engagement here.

[PeaceBringer]

this chaoswagon is dumb

real dumb

why?

[PeaceBringer]

I'm like not 100% sure what it's about and honestly it kiiiiiiiiiiiiinda feels like a counterwagon to WrongSong

wrong song has not been wagoned...

[PeaceBringer]

I also really don't like PeaceBringer's stance on the claim. No actually, town should claim if they are at L1 because the wagon could change or at least wagon analysis can be a little clearer. If Otolio is run up to L1 and is town he should go out fighting with full reads lists and naming names. Or whoever might be wagoned. Slinking off into corners is scum tactics, not town. My vote's on him because I think I want to test his claim and see if he can dance or not.

Um, wtf are you talking about. You don't like my stance and then you basically concur with what I say. THen you say your vote is on me to test my claim, of what, being upset over Oto's play and thinking refusal to claim should be lynched? Want me to dance about what? Believe me, if pushed I can be a stubborn cuss and clearly ran into another stubborn cuss with someone who is not going to alter or comment on a thing about it. But really what you are saying really is odd here... but heh, you are probably town for it.

[PeaceBringer]

I'm talking about your post #428 and #429 where you seem to be stating that you want Stabulous|Otolio to take back Otlio's statement about not claiming but you also state the slot looks town when they haven't actually changed their claim or rescinded it.

I'm not sure why you still feel the need to get into like faux aggro mode because when I"m in it, there's no way back except perchance so its like your trying to rile me up or something but not actually like you know doing the things that would rile up? Did you meta me or did I play with an alt of yours?

no prior experience but for what is going on that cannot be discussed. You come out with "Faux aggro" mode. I am doing what I do. I am not trying to rile you up per say but certainly am poking at your slot to sort things out for myself. I do not believe we able played together before outside of what is current. The rest I have no idea what you are talking about...

Oto's comments prior to his subbing switch had a townish feel to them... the whole slot is annoying as all get out. I hoped that maybe Stab might be more reasonable, but no such luck.

[PeaceBringer]

and while it seemed some response seemed more townish, well, the park and leave play now is not so town...
of course they don't have to do anything when Hito is serving as their mouth-piece.

[PeaceBringer]

PB I couldn't possibly care less whether you think it's non-optimal to say you'll never claim day one so your meta argument reeks of self misrep. The issue here is that when you started pushing a policy lynch on me, you completely abandoned your previous scumcase. That's what I think is suspicious. 429 is asking permission to slowly lessen the pressure on me and hope you can get buddy-buddy with Otolia. Doesn't make much sense from a town perspective. If you don't think I'm committed to not claiming day one- so non-committed that I'm willing to rescind it because you asked nicely- it does seem like a strange choice for a policy lynch. PB is still my vote, but I'll take a look at the other wagons now.

that whole non-sense took me away from what I do because it irritated me and is so contrary to how I play. I moved it from looking at a suspect for one person who decided to have a tantrum over being run up day one. I am not asking permission and if you look over any of my games you will find I don't really care what others think of my takes. My take is my take and there is no permission seeking. It is only after being gone for a few days and coming back that even am able to look beyond that nonsense for how much it took my out of the flow.

unvote...

and if you want to keep voting me that is your prerogative, yet if that remains all that you do it sure will look like a maneuver to park and hide. And once again, game is played find a suspect, run them up, get a claim and evaluate. Since that has not been done, you have people sitting around pointing fingers, poking her, poking there, puffing out feathers or hiding in the corners. Then oh, we gotta a deadline, someone will get lynched and it will be the person whose play gets designated most "anitown" over null behaviors... at any rate someone has to get run up but the pussy footing around only really benefits scum...

[PeaceBringer]

vote chaos-

he promised one thing and delivered another regarding play...

[PeaceBringer]

I dislike this vote. You're ignoring the fact that half this game promised things and never actually followed through.VOTE: PB

Holy Kneejerk, what I am referring to Wrong, is his overall style of play. In answering elusive's questions he called his style of play to be about reactions and behaviors. He bragged about being super lurky in one of his best scum games. So far his style of play is more lurky then attending to reactions and behaviors. But, hey maybe it is just me. LOL...

FYI- see stab, this is what I am used to. I engage and get a reaction. It really does not matter what I say or do... it just happens...

[PeaceBringer]

PB is willing to lynch a person he believes to be town. Otolia/Stabulous you already know you have my support, but sadly he's not getting lynched today so it's pointless to have my vote there. Right now I'd rather have Chaos dead if I can't have Otolia.

see damned if I do, damned if I don't. Reactions just happen. A vote is used for many reasons. The vote crossed over from being about suspicion to being about policy. You can certainly lynch me on "policy" regarding my "policy." And at no point in my making a statement and expressing my thoughts was oto actually in danger of being lynched. In fact the very nature of the culture here, my in fact drawing the hard line regarding said behavior actually resulted in others even been less inclined to "lynch." This is a behavioral fact. Sure, I can be a bit self-focused on that, but your statement at face value is as much "policy" as the statement I made about Oto's slots. And while he said things that seemed more town, the slot still has plenty of reason to be suspect.

[PeaceBringer]

oh and dinare, you post there also came off as buddying up to Hito...
but right now you are not on a top suspect list, in particular as those actions are typical around here.

[PeaceBringer]

So we're down to the wire today, and you wanna use shit I said answering random questions as your basis to jump on the biggest wagon?

and you would rather OMGUS, very typical behavior. You made a claim you have not displayed. I also suspect reck here but that won't go any where-
you really think I would do this as scum rather than sit back, park and let things take the natural course? really?

[PeaceBringer]

I think you're a lot harder to read than conventional players and won't really flow well with the town at large (which is why I've always been willing to compromise), but even with a legitimate policy grievance, I think you've been executing it in a scum motivated way.

yes, I can be hard to read, but am prone to have tells for folks that get to know me. Sure, I don't flow with the "crowd" but flowing with the "crowd" does not equate town but folks around here like to pretend it does.
Please feel free to outline why you think I am "executing from scum motivation." Outline why you think that, as that is what folks around here are supposed to do, right?

[PeaceBringer]

please note that Chaos went from omgus dinare to now omgus voting me and that is a far more likely strategy to get the heat off of himself...

[PeaceBringer]

Hito, if Chaos is trying to soft defend Otolio from Kop over Kop's case then possibly Chaos\Otolio are scum together? Or maybe white knighting a scum? The more I look at Otolio and Chaos the more I'm seeing scummy together. What do you see?

WrongSong, the only finished game I have with you - you were lynched for weak logic and explanation skills. I hope you do better this game if you're town.

Unfortunately, though we do have a lot of lurkerage.

PeaceBringer can you self-describe your town vs. scum meta? Thanks.

as town I really do not care. I am going to poke, going to prod, but really have no reason for caution. At town at times I will get frustrated over things I think are stupid and say so. As scum, I am far more concerned about what I say. I am going to hesitate. Sure, at times I can sit back as town, but less likely to do so. I am more prone to fade into background as scum. Now, that being said, that is all WIFOM. It will be really more then tone of my engagement. Now that being said, there may be elements where if I draw certain town roles I can appear cautious. I have to think about what I am saying and the connections as scum. I don't think about such as town. As an example, back where I have played there was a tell that developed for me. I would engage in "gee (fill in the blank)" statements as scum and I did not as town. Once made aware of that gee left my vocabulary, particularly when scum. However, there were "gee" tones that some picked up on still as a tell. So the more concerned I appear to be over what others think of my posting, directly or indirectly, the higher likelihood I am scum.

[PeaceBringer]

please note that Chaos went from omgus dinare to now omgus voting me and that is a far more likely strategy to get the heat off of himself...

Alright, maybe I'm the asshole here, I don't fucking know. Is this a thing? Scum are known to OMGUS vote to take heat off themselves? I've never heard of that. Whenever I've seen someone make an OMGUS vote not in RVS, it's always "Ha ha, OMGUS vote, that's bad." I don't see how this takes attention off of me at all. Dinare mentioned it the first time, and now you. It didn't work for me before, so you thought I was just being plucky and trying again? Do you think I'm fucking retarded?

So we're down to the wire today, and you wanna use shit I said answering random questions as your basis to jump on the biggest wagon?

and you would rather OMGUS, very typical behavior. You made a claim you have not displayed. I also suspect reck here but that won't go any where-
you really think I would do this as scum rather than sit back, park and let things take the natural course? really?

You're asking me if I think as scum, you would jump on the leading bandwagon nearing deadline with sketchy reasoning, rather than sit back and park your vote on someone (where both they have no real chance of being lynched today and you received flak for voting them)? I'm gonna go with yes, I think that's very plausible.

yes, omgus is a classic scum behavior. I have reached the 80% likelihood of being the lynchee at this point, so it has in fact worked. My reasoning is not sketchy, it is sound. You claimed to play one way and your play has not been consistent with it. You are the one who tried to engage in safe, disengaged play. You only now have any engagement because you have heat and then you try and turn it back around. Sure, the deadline plays a role. I know as scum there are a # of different choices in play could have made that would have generated less heat. The wise move for town here would be to run you up, get a claim and hey they even still have time to get a claim from me. They could also run me up get a claim, and then run you up. However, folks are dragging feet and letting what happens, happens. I predict the more pressure you get, the more folks may look to me and more likely scum are drop on me. This is usually how things play out.

[PeaceBringer]

FYI- I am always easy lynch-bait, always. This is regardless of site, based on how I play. I even make a joke about it where I come from about people just love to see me lynched. Of course I harp on that as scum or town. (Back to eluusive's question)

[PeaceBringer]

fair enough Cheer, it seemed to me Kop was coming off as low hanging fruit... what you are saying about Chaos makes sense, and Kop is actually seeming to do things/say things pointing at me for...

vote Kop

(for folks attending me and thinking I am scummy, I just put self as top wagon- )

[PeaceBringer]

hey elusive, you take time to look at my scum and town meta yet? you promised you would, or you just going to park on my because I antagonized you here?

[PeaceBringer]

well more than just park, given current nature of things (all generated by my sparkling anticharisma)

[PeaceBringer]

that puts me at L-2
chance my being lynched now 97%
UT, that was pure lazy.
one more vote on me and I will claim and try and share my perspective on folks at that time...

[PeaceBringer]

and it actually was CO, me, and KOP as candidates...

[PeaceBringer]

actually it will have to be this evening and I will claim regardless of vote status as Hito has certainly made their intent known and Kop can move vote as well...
naw, f it, I will claim now, reads later.
Here is a shocker- I am Vanilla TOwnie...
I fully expect to get lynched
but town has time to actually find scum...
do what you all will, I will get best reads I can give this evening.

pedit- I already decided to sir lazy

[PeaceBringer]

and I don't except votes to move, as I am VT and I stated 97% chance I get lynched. I have the charisma to get myself run up at any given time, I do not have charisma to shake a run up...

[PeaceBringer]

I have a few moments right now before having to take MIL somewhere and before next appointment.
Reads-
On my vote
Elusive- voted me when I refused to play along with RQs. Decided I was scum and has been aggressive. Odds are town
Oto/Stab- I don't like this slot. I think Oto was self-focused and selfish. Stab just going along but ends up probably town but don't like it at all.
Wrong Song- comes of as town to me, seems to be legit trying... could be show, but think they are trying. He has the makings of being the next easy run up.
ChaosO- All I can say is inconsistent and is lurking when claimed to be about reactions... still suspicious to me
Untrod Tripod- either lazy lurking town or lurking lazy scum- null

Others
ChaosO voters-
Kop- felt like low hanging fruit to me but feel Cheet made good points... so he was null
Quilford- I was unsettled by some early play, lazy scum or lazy town- lurking
Dinare- efforting, town lean but can easily go another way

Kop voters- Cheetor- comes off 100% and strongest town read for me. GUYinFreezer- not here really... probably town

then there is Reck who has been quiet, disengaged and is parking- so strong scum lean for me ATM
Hito- he sure has some buddies... probably town but could easily be scum.

If I had to pick 3 for scum right now it would be Kop, Reck, and one of Quil, UT
that is all I got at this point.

[PeaceBringer]

lmao

I'll lynch PB, town aren't that wrong are they

wouldn't expect anything less...
if you are town, where the hell are you?

[PeaceBringer]

lmao

I'll lynch PB, town aren't that wrong are they

and feel free to outline where else you think I am "that wrong" other than calling you a scum suspect...

[PeaceBringer]

I woulda been poking at you day 2 reck---- sorry I seen you give more on day 1... just my thoughts

[PeaceBringer]

heh, sure my reads can be shit... I have zero information other than play and where the vote stands. If I make one wrong call on a player that can impact other perceptions. So perhaps my reads are ass backwards... and certainly 1 was triggered by anothers opinion... but those are my best thoughts... I find it interesting that my thoughts even trigger a reaction that they are absolutely wrong... note it dragged reck out of shadows and now he has returned only to show up again at deadline...

[PeaceBringer]

VOTE: unvote

Speed of the wagon tells me something

Cheetory don't start what you can't finish

Pb I don't have time to meta you till the weekend

it was just a poke as I was skimmed things over and thought about my reads...

[PeaceBringer]

Scratching my head.What was the thought process here PB? Walk me through this.

I have stated my thought process multiple times but it is hard to get through cultural perspectives and different elements in play including concepts of "intent to hammer." I come from a culture where folks get run up and once reach a run up point they would never be given time to get off the hook and not claim. When folks get let off the hook they can be a distraction. If you are at claiming point you claim, like I did today. I simply wanted a claim and rather than even the usual pussy-footing around that occurs, it comes out with a flat out refusal to claim and that pissed me off. I have another closed game where someone put themself before the game and cost a power role. I hate when people think there own selfish motivation and "meta" play is more important then this game. But my thoughts there, claim time, lets pressure claim and not let someone off the hook. Oh, and lately around this culture town-folks have quickly hammered without "intent to hammer." I don't trust folks around "hammer" and my culture, hammers without claim have happened numerous times. My culture is fast paced and day 1's are mostly schtick, running someone up "just because" and then sorting things out. Around here folks pick a nit and pick at it as an excuse to run up. Not much different at the core and I had to come to an understanding of that to even be able to play in this culture which is weird for me. I do play for reactions and am an easy run-up as people really at first do not know how to read me, so runup pressure and lynches happen. MY frustrations are not over that as it occurs regardless of culture and am used to that. My frustrations are the things that are beyond me that really to me do not make any sense game-wise and added on to self-important plays that are all about "meta" reasons then anything related to THIS GAME.

[PeaceBringer]

From earlier posts in the day, PB was saying that he'd just come back from a hiatus and I kind of get the impression that he's used to being run up a lot as either alignment and has residual annoyance from that? I think him getting pissed off at Otolia here makes sense to me in that context? I think it makes sense to me that he'd be mad as either scum or town so kind of feeling null about it overall.

Let me give you my "Mafiascum" history. I learned the game at Footballguys.com at a style of game called "Werewolf." I looked to play more games at the time and came here. I played within the culture at the time which was filled with people not posting. "No lynches" were the day 1 norm which I stuck around and argued against over and over and over. I played as much as possible and was voted "most prolific" for a year (see my wiki). I was even on a scummy committee for 2004 or 2005. However, the attitudes of people behind the scenes couple with the pace of play and "lack of engagement" attitude resulted in my leaving the site.
I came back last year after someone who I played mafia games with over at goal-line blitz mmorpg (when they played there) was over here, he convinced me to come over. I came in with an attitude already but tried playing. The current culture caught me complete off guard and initially overwhelmed with the attitude and did not know how to take it. I tried. I replaced out of 3 games where I happened to draw scum and it was different elements that escalated my frustration with trying to play here. Since I replaced out as scum 3 times, site admins had to ban me, as though my intent was not to only replace as scum and it was instances particular games, well, the action was appropriate structure. I then came as an alt and meant to blend in, but I couldn't help being antagonistic and engaged in an opening to game that I knew would get reactions. While under the alt, I did alt slip and so the connection became known. My original intent was not to be antagonistic. I finished out games and decided I was done. StrangeCoug dropped me an PM looking for folks for his game so a I came back. The pace here now is actually something that works for my work and life schedule compared to what I play at. I have looked at other "mafia" sites and they have even stranger culture then here that I know I would not adapt to. SO here I am trying and trying not to "tweak" at the culture elements that do not make sense, but I still do so. That is even strange because by nature I am amiable and like to get along with folks, so my demeaner in these games and counter-cultural tendencies I guess is really a "release" of sorts. It probably relates to my reactions to what I consider "self" involved play.

[PeaceBringer]

The games that started at Footballguys.net moved to an off-site private website. You would have to be approved to be at the private site, the games do not have public access. I can dig up a recent footballguys game though I think.

[PeaceBringer]

here is a smaller game- whoda sinkitis is me fyi
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/i ... me-thread/

it is a smaller game for that culture...

[PeaceBringer]

most recent game played there- https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/i ... me-thread/
I was not able to play in that game as given my schedule I knew I couldn't keep up but it should give you further idea of the culture.

[PeaceBringer]

fyi the private website is www.packmentality.net and members would have to be admin approved...

[PeaceBringer]

PeaceBringer, I looked at these two games where you are town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6506533
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5340325

Can you link to two most recent scum games from your topics?

Also what does SKOT mean?

I know I asked this but how do I do the Dinare style hyperlinks that are all pretty and neat?

Sharpest-knife-on-tree
no scum games so far this recent play... and under PB the 3 were replace outs. There are a couple as SKOT I think...

[PeaceBringer]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58466 Age of Apocalypse- Marvel


the other 2 were The Wire and Revolution but haven't time to dig up the link right now..

[PeaceBringer]

The trick with scum is to do things not anticipated if they work together. It is hard to get folks to actually work together as a team, especially with no day talk. You cannot assume anything with scum. The things often "picked" out for looking "odd" are really nothing that scum actually would do. Like me pressuring for a claim at L-2 because I could easily put them at L-1... I had made threats of intent to hammer as SKOT at L-1 but that really is not effective way of getting past the lolly-gagging over claims that goes on.

[PeaceBringer]

elusive, the way I write, my earned title are all related to the same bit. In terms of writing, I write what I think and write the way I think. So I often end up with disconnected phrases or missing transitions. I do not edit either. I also make multiple typos and sound alike errors. I have engage in online communication like this for a long, long time... I know it would be more considerate of me to edit but that is something hard for me to do. So it is really just the flow of what is going on at the time.

[PeaceBringer]

And take a good look at all those who are staying away as the end of the day approaches. It is pretty much sealed that I will be lynched but take a long look at all this...

[PeaceBringer]

As I said, I am going to end up the lynch here...
please those that are town, take a good strong look at things. Please do not sit back and let the days go to deadline and then, oh guess we gotta lynch someone. I will guarantee that there is scum just laying in the weeds. Please make a concerted effort to find the scum. I have seen enough of how things go around here, that I know if things go a certain way, that scum will have their way. I hope a good omelet will be made and not just a pan of muck...

[PeaceBringer]

Wrong song, please see the link games at Footballguys and come back to me about voting without "an explanation" because that is a "cultural" thing. No, I had not played with CO before. And I did stat his inconsistency with what he said he plays as my reason... that is as much of an explanation as I give really...

[PeaceBringer]

Oh my god

Mod: given activity levels and replacement, can we get more time

this

[PeaceBringer]

Day one is rough and a mess but why wouldn't you be active and at least scum hunt? Why be so passive and put the work on others.

because it's too hard, ill scumhunt later when there aren't 13 players

I won't get killed and then I can start being good it's fine

oh what a boat load of crap

[PeaceBringer]

of course that was in response to 1st sentence... avoiding night kill is a different motivation than waa waa waa it is too hard...

[PeaceBringer]

unvote

[PeaceBringer]

I think cheer and elusive are 2 town ripping at one another...
:shakinghead:

[PeaceBringer]

vote chaos-

(since folks did not like me urge to claim at l-2 of oto)

[PeaceBringer]

seriously...
so we have a claim a of "protown" who does something unspecified for an unspecified # of slots...
If Chaos is town I may just need to bang my head against wall repeatedly...

[PeaceBringer]

Peacebringer, why on earth does cheetory/elusive being a seeming town on town make you unvote *kop* and take Chaos to L-1? That seems like precisely the situation to push a kop wagon.

Kop was cheetor's push... there is nothing about that drama behind push. I could have sat and parked and saw what happened but, hey a suspect was at claim point. At no point did I clear Chaos...
his claim is absolute shit... you are comfortable Hito with the claim of Chaos, Really? You think that is a pro-town claim? If so I will have to remember that, just claim I am pro-town and I do something and I won't say what...

[PeaceBringer]

reck, please explain to me what you think is "protown" about chaos's claim. TIA...

[PeaceBringer]

he claimed confirmable, so

noting this, nothing is confirmable unless you know there is something to confirm... there is not one ounce of the claim that is protown at all...

[PeaceBringer]

an you know as well as I do, that many actions are confirmable and many confirmable actions can be given to a bad guy... nothing pro-town about that claim at all...

[PeaceBringer]

given that the suspects who ran up elusive are now on Kop after avoiding it previously, eh, not as comfy with it...
surprised at Reck moving in that direction as he called my "reads" 100% wrong...now he is voting cop...

[PeaceBringer]

We weren't avoiding kop previously because we had love of kop in our hearts. The wagon just defused because I wagon-banned kop vs. CO, since it had gotten extremely calcified and a lynch wouldn't tell us much regardless of who was lynched or what they flipped. Which actually turned out excellent and got us a ton of good stuff. Now, with how things have flowed, I want kop again.

you and reck are sure buddy buddy so we is probably the right pronoun there... and you are full of crap on it being Kop vs CO. It was me vs CO and then I moved to KOP based on Cheet logic whereby putting me at the lead. We then go from nearly lynching me and poking around more. So then you, reck, and CO go and vote elusive for shit reasoning... then CO gets run up and makes the worse claim ever. Don't give me the bull that he is "nailed" down. It is crapy anti-town claim. Reck told me specifically that I was dead wrong, and now suddenly oh, it is right. Something stinks here. And yes, you and reck can sure as hell be scum together and one can be scum and buddying up, WTF would I know? But this play is super dodgy...

[PeaceBringer]

Kop was cheetor's push... there is nothing about that drama behind push. I could have sat and parked and saw what happened but, hey a suspect was at claim point. At no point did I clear Chaos...

Wait, so you pushed Chaos literally just because you could make him claim? Going on the gamestate at the time (i.e pre-claim), how would you rate kop vs. CO for scuminess?

his claim is absolute shit... you are comfortable Hito with the claim of Chaos, Really? You think that is a pro-town claim? If so I will have to remember that, just claim I am pro-town and I do something and I won't say what...

It's D1. Obviously this kind of claim doesn't fly past in LYLO or LYLO - 1. But when someone claims confirmable D1 they're sort of nailing their foot to the floor as scum. Obviously if CO comes empty-handed D3 it's pretty darn suspicious! But having one non-vanilla claim in the night mix actually does some pretty healthy things for the nightgame. Let's not talk about it anymore!

given that the suspects who ran up elusive are now on Kop after avoiding it previously, eh, not as comfy with it...

Why does that make you uncomfortable?

We weren't avoiding kop previously because we had love of kop in our hearts. The wagon just defused because I wagon-banned kop vs. CO, since it had gotten extremely calcified and a lynch wouldn't tell us much regardless of who was lynched or what they flipped. Which actually turned out excellent and got us a ton of good stuff. Now, with how things have flowed, I want kop again.

Also, CO certainly didn't avoid kop previously. So you're essentially saying "Kop was my biggest suspect, but hito and/or reckoner voting for kop makes me not want to vote kop." Which is implictly claiming at least one of us is scum. Which one? Or both?

Regardless, CO wagon is off the table, so if you don't want kop, let's hear your alternative...

If idiot town wants to let a crap ass claim survive, I would be voting you or reck at this point with UT a distant 3rd as he is staying well clear of anything. I don't like the current vote. The only trust at had was cheets viewpoint and he tilted way off kilt...

[PeaceBringer]

Also if our reason on elusive was shit, why not call out the elusive wagon earlier instead of only now after I've decided to try an audible elsewhere?

because 99% of the reasoning is shit for any runup and it pretty much went down at a time when I was busy. I am not saying the "3" of you is a scum team but there is something very dodgy going on...
Confirmable is a line of crap- and scum can easily have a "confirmable action" that does not make it town. It is just crap... It is not about evaluating power, it is evaluating the claim, the behavior around the claim, and other dynamics... I don't believe him for a minute and I don't like the play I am seeing for others and I do not trust. I trust my self far more right now.

[PeaceBringer]

heh, and I am not asking for a full claim from Chaos... I don't buy his crap claim and his ass needs to be lynched imo...

[PeaceBringer]

you can't expect someone to claim because you're going to put them one vote away from a lynch. similarly, if everyone who was run up claimed at L-2 then we'd be just as well massclaiming straight out the gate because, in your words, "everyone gets run up day one sooner or later." bad logic is bad.

that is such a horrid bad premise and reminds me of nonsense folks used to argue for no lynch... L-2 give someone space from a quick hammer. It has nothing to do with mass claiming and everything to do with claiming at appropriate claim. Games I have been in, had recent quick hammers... thus the motivation. And my argument was not "everyone gets runup" it was when you get run up you claim. So far we have 1 player who refused to claim. 1 player claim "can do confirmable stuff" and a VT claim. Refusal to claim and "i can do stuff" claims sitting sliding is beyond me...

[PeaceBringer]

reck would be the direction I would most likely prefer to move if I did move...

[PeaceBringer]

Hm. I'm really thinking if KoP ends up being scum I'm really thinking you are a partner for actively dodging the wagon rn.

I mean if you don't want to vote CO, then vote KoP? I mean it's like a no brainer.

that really is not too town a thing to say at this point, it is really a vote Kop or else statement... down tick for you and up tick for elusive on her response...

[PeaceBringer]

well I was probably looking at things wrong...
I was given a 1x "interrogation" last night which was 1 time ability to track
I tracked Reck- and he did not target anyone. He could potentially still be scum but at this point he did not act...

[PeaceBringer]

this for me further brings CO in to question. Since I was suddenly given that 1x ability during the night phase.
Also there is nothing that showed up r/t CO... unless he wants to claim responsibility for my getting the 1x action.

[PeaceBringer]

vote wrong song

[PeaceBringer]

those indicating strong town reads on hito and not being surprised by the death go in the suspect pile...

[PeaceBringer]

those indicating strong town reads on hito and not being surprised by the death go in the suspect pile...

Fascinating.

Can you go into why for me?

well, it is a psychological element. Sometimes scum do like to make comments about actions they have taken and do so in a way that appears town like. It would be similar to a quick comment on a successful block of kill. At least this is my thinking.

[PeaceBringer]

I agree with ank

vote Dinare...

[PeaceBringer]

I could also go oto...

[PeaceBringer]

vote oto...

[PeaceBringer]

There you go. We might actually finish this game before page 40.

so you are admitting to being scum then...noted...
finish him!

[PeaceBringer]

Dinare has suspect elements...

[PeaceBringer]

Are you going to elaborate and make a case, or are you just going to go "Person X could be scum..."

you will no when I make a case. You are within a realm of positions, votes, and engagement where you could be scum... you are at the top of the suspect list...

[PeaceBringer]

so Dinare engages in a huge OMGUS and outlines and bunch of null actions stating PB is probably scum.

[PeaceBringer]

if you think that, why aren't you voting him? you've been championing him as having 'suspect elements' all day and yet you aren't voting for him?

I thought I was

vote Dinare...

[PeaceBringer]

So yeah, my reads. I don't really have any anymore. I have 1 townread (Mac), and then there's everyone else.

PB is playing like complete ass, but does that make him scum? Iunno. Ank I guess is town. Which leaves the last 3 people. UT, Dinare, and elusive. Have a feeling the entire remaining scumteam rests in that group.

what am I doing that you consider to be a complete "ass?" I agree with you on potential of UT and Dinare to be scum, particularly Dinare's response to me.

[PeaceBringer]

It's been four days. It's long past time.

he is a suspect- why you defending him in such a manner? It does not matter if I make up a case, quote mine, or do anything else. He is a suspect based on his interactions in the game compared to who I think is town. I do not have anymore case than that and I don't need one and really making that shit up is not how I play. "I ain't from around here"

[PeaceBringer]

elusive and PB are my scumreads

PB was a scumread earlier in the game and hasn't really done much to alter my opinion (although Oto flipping town mitigated it a touch), and I thought elusive had some *really* awkward interactions with WrongSong before WS even flipped, so

fuck it

vote: elusive

oh this is gawd awful and folks complain about my "cases."
Apathy for the game is feigned and UT falls into suspect #2 I am afraid.

[PeaceBringer]

PeaceBringer

You said you would make a case. Your entire "case" is incredibly vague and doesn't actually say anything, besides being pretty much exactly what you said when you made the "I will make a case" post.

Which one is it?

no I never said I was going to make a case, I said if I was making a case it would be known. I don't have anything tangible to say. I did not say I would make a case.

[PeaceBringer]

Are you going to elaborate and make a case, or are you just going to go "Person X could be scum..."

you will no when I make a case. You are within a realm of positions, votes, and engagement where you could be scum... you are at the top of the suspect list...

I've thrown my eggs on the counter. I think it's time you did the same.

It's been four days. It's long past time.

this is the post- note I said "you will no when I make a case" that should read know... no promises to make a case and shame on you for reading it as such...

[PeaceBringer]

PB didn't Chaos give you an item?

yes, the track that I used on Reck...

[PeaceBringer]

You really should try to make your phrases less ambiguous.

Either way, I'm going to completely discount your scumread until you go into what makes the interactions bad compared to everyone else anyways.

UNVOTE: Dinare

I really should do a lot of things about how I post and communicate, but I pretty much post in line with how I think verses attending to readability and editing...

[PeaceBringer]

Either way, I'm going to completely discount your scumread until you go into what makes the interactions bad compared to everyone else anyways.

If I had something more to give, I would. I am intuitive... sometimes it is off- when I try and do things the other way it ends up horridly...

[PeaceBringer]

Ankamius, PeaceBringer, Dinare, ChaosOmega, elusive, Mac, Untrod Tripod

this is who is left in game- Chaos- inventor/item giver- town; Mac/Cheer- I had cheer town; elusive (thought cheer/elusive was TvT)
Ank- you seem town in your interactions and even what you are picking at-
So late leaves me down to Dinare and UT-
clearly I had the wrong look on OTO but that slot needed flipping for me.
I can vote Dinare, UT and if they are not scum then I got someone else wrong...
also there is a reason Dinare seems to be pointing my way when you look at who we got here..

[PeaceBringer]

Again, you make sure to wait for approval from town before you throw down your vote.

nope, you can spin it this way. Look at the numbers. If you are town and I am town then who would you say is bad. You have not engaged the game at all. You simply are pointing at me because you really don't have anywhere else to go and I should be someone that potentially you could get lynched.

You would think if I cared what the rest think that I would work much harder in providing a "case" or "reasons."

[PeaceBringer]

This would make sense if I was voting Ankamius. You know, the person that actually voted me directly before my post

no because you know your chances of get a lynch on ank is slim to none and you have nothing to point his way...

[PeaceBringer]

Again, you make sure to wait for approval from town before you throw down your vote.

nope, you can spin it this way. Look at the numbers. If you are town and I am town then who would you say is bad. You have not engaged the game at all. You simply are pointing at me because you really don't have anywhere else to go and I should be someone that potentially you could get lynched.

You would think if I cared what the rest think that I would work much harder in providing a "case" or "reasons."

uh, since you are not providing a "case" or "reasons," aren't you basically pointing your finger at dinare?

i mean you're basically admitting you don't give a fuck if people support your dinare push here which is a pretty not town thing to do

that would be one perception a person can have around here, and one that is typical. Everyone basically points fingers, it don't matter whether you make up reasons. You can find something to proclaim someone scummy at any time. I actually did express my thoughts. In part you have PoE as I have other people town. I could be off on a town read, but hey, there is room to be wrong. I do care if people support a Dinare vote because I think they are scum. I am not going to kow tow to artificial expectations and cultural bias just to "fit in"- that I don't give a fuck about.

[PeaceBringer]

nope, you can spin it this way. Look at the numbers. If you are town and I am town then who would you say is bad. You have not engaged the game at all. You simply are pointing at me because you really don't have anywhere else to go and I should be someone that potentially you could get lynched.

You would think if I cared what the rest think that I would work much harder in providing a "case" or "reasons."

You didn't vote me until Mac pointed out that you should be. The majority of your votes have been to sheep others, or to satisfy others about where your vote should be. I don't believe that you forgot to vote today. It hasn't been that long a D4. Knowing you haven't voted at all should be fairly obvious.

If you were town, you would care about getting others to vote someone you believe to be scum. You said yourself that you don't care what the rest think.

I thought I had voted you, so not being aware of whether I voted you or not is what was called out, it was my intent to vote you. Sheeping is null and that is a perception of the actions. It can be easily derived as I am not inclined to share my thoughts on a lot of things. Claiming I am voting to satisfy others is a value judgment andnot based on fact. I would not expect you to believe me, as you have little room. And guess what, if folks choose to follow your perspective and lynch me, hey, if it leads to the eventual lynch of you and UT, it is all good to me.

[PeaceBringer]

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Beloved Princess
T-belovedprincess.png

Alias: Princess

Alignment: Pro-town

Role type: Passive
Negative Utility

Choice: None



A Beloved Princess is a player who, upon death, causes the next Day phase to be skipped.


It appears I understand correctly, so PV, explain your logic, it makes no sense, there is no difference.

[PeaceBringer]

[quote="In post 957, PeaceBringer"]Jump to: navigation, search


quote]
that was for another game... :bag:

[PeaceBringer]

I can easily go UT

[PeaceBringer]

Blegh, sorry for needing to be prodded.

that would be one perception a person can have around here, and one that is typical. Everyone basically points fingers, it don't matter whether you make up reasons. You can find something to proclaim someone scummy at any time. I actually did express my thoughts. In part you have PoE as I have other people town. I could be off on a town read, but hey, there is room to be wrong.

I do care if people support a Dinare vote because I think they are scum

. I am not going to kow tow to artificial expectations and cultural bias just to "fit in"- that I don't give a fuck about.

I've been trying to figure out what you mean by the bolded sentence. You think people that vote me are scum? I have to be reading that wrong.

UT, I don't see why scum-Elusive would bus Wrong Song in that situation. Why do you think otherwise?

wrong... the "they" are you and UT...

[PeaceBringer]

will miss most of tomorrow as it is my birthday and all...

[PeaceBringer]

UT you were long suspected by me regardless of whatever you may or may not of said about me...

[PeaceBringer]

I know I had him in my lynch pool earlier, but I'm against this Dinare lynch. This reads like a mislynch to me.

So Ank, let's say you think I'm scum. I gave things to PB and Mac. It's pretty much impossible that me, PB, and Mac are scum together. So you think as scum I gave my 1-shot abilities to an innocent (maybe 2 innocents) just for towncred?

so then who do you think is scum, seriously... there is not much left....
there is you
Me
Mac
elusive
dinare
UT
mac
ank

right now I rank things as
dinare
UT
elusive
ank
mac
you
me (as I know my role)
how would you currently rank folks from scum to town?

[PeaceBringer]

Dinare, I am certainly willing to be convinced to go elsewise. So if you take you off the table and if you were to consider me town, where would you go?

[PeaceBringer]

eh.. elusive I hate it when folks color themselves in on a vote count.

[PeaceBringer]

VOTE COUNT 2.03
Wrong Song (6) - PeaceBringer, elusive,

ChaosOmega

, Dinare, Untrod Tripod,

xRECKONERx

Untrod Tripod (1) -

Otolia

Not Voting (4) - Ankamius, Mac, Quilford,

Wrong Song

[PeaceBringer]

that vote count is interesting
Dinare and UT on vote
elusive on vote
Ank, mac off...
oops missed coloring quil.

I think one of dinare and UT need to be flipped to make a guess...

[PeaceBringer]

Okay- I got a vig from Chaos last night. I took a shot at Anka. Anka is not dead. I will gather my thoughts on that in a second.

[PeaceBringer]

well down to essentially UT, Anka, and elusive... reading over UT, it comes off more town at this point. Mac looks straight town. Elusive done some things I suspect but hard to say. Anka really has been doing nothing, looking it over, so not sure why town and he is an off WS voter.

were my thoughts when I made the shot

[PeaceBringer]

ank is not dead because i detained (read: jailed) pb.

well thanks for that...

[PeaceBringer]

I know I had him in my lynch pool earlier, but I'm against this Dinare lynch. This reads like a mislynch to me.

So Ank, let's say you think I'm scum. I gave things to PB and Mac. It's pretty much impossible that me, PB, and Mac are scum together. So you think as scum I gave my 1-shot abilities to an innocent (maybe 2 innocents) just for towncred?

so then who do you think is scum, seriously... there is not much left....
there is you
Me
Mac
elusive
dinare
UT
mac
ank

right now I rank things as
dinare
UT
elusive
ank
mac
you
me (as I know my role)
how would you currently rank folks from scum to town?

given this post, your ank shot doesn't make sense from a town PoV since you should surely be vigging your top scumread. with the dinare flip, that would leave UT and elusive before ank on your list so unless something about the dinare flip changed your ank read, i think you're scum who looked at hitting someone who was probably not a viable mislynch but not widely townread enough to be a 'bad' vig kill as such.

problem is mac, that my top scum read flipped town. So what do you do when top scum read flips town, you re-evaluate. I take vig shots seriously. I use them. I read over each ISO. Nothing changed my mind on you. When I read Ank, I started going, wtf is he town? He has basically been doing nothing all game. When I read over UT, my 2nd slot of scum, it came off more town to me.

If I was scum here and Choas dead I wouldn't have to out the vig shot at all.

[PeaceBringer]

This isn't even going into why gigging is bad here in the first place.

I get a vig shot I use it. I have a high percetage of taking good vig shots around here.

[PeaceBringer]

vote Anka

[PeaceBringer]

PB, what was the flavour for vig?

The Item was a sniper rifle. Same basic flavour as given for the track.

[PeaceBringer]

unvote-

wtf was that?

[PeaceBringer]

that was a lynch I guess and UT throwing weird crap out... WTF?

[PeaceBringer]

mac and UT?

[PeaceBringer]

there's no 3rd party, dude

we won

I am not a bad guy so wtf are you talking about?

[PeaceBringer]

:bag:
over thought... my Achilles