Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia (Game Over)
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In post 24, Wrong Song wrote:In post 17, PeaceBringer wrote:most folks here are new to me... so this should be interesting...
glad to meet you too wrong and cheet-
I was wondering, but have you changed your playstyle recently? Do you not random vote anymore?
Hito -- thank you for that. Most mods don't do that so for some reason it didn't register in my head.
SKOT random votes, peacebringer has not engaged in that behavior... I don't think in this current iteration I have laid a RVS vote but rather picked up on someone elses reaction getting. Cannot state that for fact though as might have... now WTH are you?- PeaceBringer
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In post 30, hitogoroshi wrote:In post 27, Wrong Song wrote:In post 25, hitogoroshi wrote:In post 24, Wrong Song wrote:I was wondering, but have you changed your playstyle recently? Do you not random vote anymore?
have you played with PB before? Are you an alt?
Know of him. I am an alt, yes.
Any particular reason you didn't disclose that in your first post? I know I assumed you were a newbie until you brought up past play of an '04 player.
I was expecting a lot more dynamic of a first few hours when I saw how fast everyone confirmed. Sad times.
know he was referring to the play of Sharpest-knife-on-tree...
my being an '04 player is irrelevant as that was a year and half until I got sick of things. I came back here in past year. Got hyper frustrated initially with the current culture. Ended up replacing out 3 times as PB and all ended up being scum. Ended up banned in any iteration for a month. Came in as SKOT to try and learn, did "random voting" with using random.org to get reactions. Continued to do so but really did not want to stick with the alt. Left again and did not intend coming back at all because still super frustrated and then someone looked to fill a game and asked me to play in their game, I managed that one okay so decided to stick around as think I am getting my mindset straight for this culture. I do tend to be antagonistic and generate heat, but not atagonistic in an aggressive way, just generate reactions.- PeaceBringer
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In post 92, elusive wrote:There are RQS questions. I’ve copied and pasted them below for you:
that has nothing to do with the game...
a
b
c
d
e
f
g
there is my answer and I don't care what you think- PeaceBringer
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In post 105, Wrong Song wrote:I also really don't like this post, mainly for similar things in nature that I disliked about KoP. Although PB actually commented on things that happened his votes don't really make much sense to me.
that whole thing is shtick and while I support schtick I don't have to answer to it... I really do not care if I do not make sense to you. And as such, while you may have awareness of my nature, you really haven't got a clue how I play.- PeaceBringer
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In post 111, Wrong Song wrote:In post 108, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 105, Wrong Song wrote:I also really don't like this post, mainly for similar things in nature that I disliked about KoP. Although PB actually commented on things that happened his votes don't really make much sense to me.
that whole thing is shtick and while I support schtick I don't have to answer to it... I really do not care if I do not make sense to you. And as such, while you may have awareness of my nature, you really haven't got a clue how I play.
I think you would care if it didn't make sense to me. I mean if you really believe in your vote currently is then you would want people to support you and also vote that said person, but if your vote doesn't make any sense then how will you get support for it? (answer is you won't)
Your posts are coming off coasting without getting your hands dirty currently. The fact you aren't taking a stance bothers me, you are just coming into the thread to defend yourself.
It's time like this I wish I had a double vote because I wouldn't mind voting PB or Kop right now.
I again from a different philosophy and a different play style. I look for those I trust, that is similar. I don't go making up bullshit reasons for voting someone. If someone looks suspect I vote them. If I want to gauge further reaction I vote them. If I want to watch what is going on I vote someone and watch or don't vote at all. I believe the process is run someone up, get a claim, and evaluate. Sometimes during the course of a run up you can gauge more. I am trying to mesh my style with the culture here, but I can only do what I know to do. It is the reason Skot random votes and the reason I here am generally not voting in RVS and watching. If I do not make sense to you, it is because you do not understand this style of play. I do not want to turn this into game theory and game play discussion but I am accommodating you here.- PeaceBringer
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In post 124, Untrod Tripod wrote:In post 122, PeaceBringer wrote:I am comfortable with the oto or quil votes
back tovote quilford...
-popcorn-
you unvoted, quilford prod-dodged, you revoted
want to walk me through that?
just looking at the votes and who is one whom-
I like competing run ups...- PeaceBringer
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In post 160, hitogoroshi wrote:How can Otolia's last post be so gross and yet PeaceBringer acknowledging how gross that post is be even grosser
truly, this is a miracle of modern science
I didn't acknowledge anything about a particular post... I am telling someone they are at claiming state, as this is how the game is played.- PeaceBringer
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In post 162, hitogoroshi wrote:Also PB, I unvoted Otalia so you'd only be making him L-2. Feel free.
WTH did you do that?- PeaceBringer
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In post 161, Otolia wrote:I don't claim D1.
so you are an anti-town jerk then I see...
anyone who takes such a stand I will vote for on policy as it is anti-game and antitown...
just stupid!
Vote oto...- PeaceBringer
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In post 164, Untrod Tripod wrote:In post 162, hitogoroshi wrote:Also PB, I unvoted Otalia so you'd only be making him L-2. Feel free.
so you think Kop is still more compelling than this juicy juicy oto/PB ballet?
UT- wth with the misrep?- PeaceBringer
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In post 170, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 122, PeaceBringer wrote:I am comfortable with the oto or quil votes
back tovote quilford...
-popcorn-
why were you voting him before this?
what makes you comfortable voting him?
he caught my attention with his interactions
liked the folks that were voting him...- PeaceBringer
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In post 179, hitogoroshi wrote:So you were willing to take Oto to L-1, and you have no idea why the hell I'd unvote Otolia, but you're going for an alignment-null policy reason to vote Otolia? That's interesting.
And UT isn't misrepping, he was referring to MY vote on Kop.
I don't like the manipulative I won't f-ing claim on day one bullshit. Everyone gets run up day one soon or later. Folks playing that game is just BS manipulative crap. It is antitown and antigame and it pisses me off. The game is all about running someone up, getting a claim and evaluate. All anyone has on day one is will speculation... to claim otherwise is bullshit. And I hate refusals to claim and will not budge if someone is pulling that shit.- PeaceBringer
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In post 179, hitogoroshi wrote:So you were willing to take Oto to L-1, and you have no idea why the hell I'd unvote Otolia, but you're going for an alignment-null policy reason to vote Otolia? That's interesting.
And UT isn't misrepping, he was referring to MY vote on Kop.
calling my interaction with OTO as ballet is a misrep...- PeaceBringer
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In post 183, Otolia wrote:What do you think I could possibly bring to the table by claiming now ? Everyone is thinking I'm scum so unless I'm a role I can prove immediately (like DayVig), me claiming wouldn't bring anything to the table. And the worst in this, is that if you're town and I'm getting lynched you've just served yourself a perfect D2 lynch for scum to push without risking anything. As for the accusation of playing against my alignment, well you can shove it. I have played badly today but I have not played against my alignment, nor will I ever do that.
flat out refusal to claim day one and playing Manuplative BS is that. It take this as a soft VT claim. I come from an entirely different philosophy but philosophy has nothing to do with stating out right "I never claim day one" bullshit.- PeaceBringer
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In post 185, hitogoroshi wrote:In post 181, PeaceBringer wrote:
I don't like the manipulative I won't f-ing claim on day one bullshit. Everyone gets run up day one soon or later. Folks playing that game is just BS manipulative crap. It is antitown and antigame and it pisses me off. The game is all about running someone up, getting a claim and evaluate. All anyone has on day one is will speculation... to claim otherwise is bullshit. And I hate refusals to claim and will not budge if someone is pulling that shit.
Why do you care if a scum player refuses to claim?
it is antitown, it is antithical to how the game is played... flat out stating never claim day one is just manipulative BS...- PeaceBringer
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In post 185, hitogoroshi wrote:Why do you care if a scum player refuses to claim?
let me add, claims are information, without a claim there is less information...- PeaceBringer
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In post 189, hitogoroshi wrote:Why is scum being manipulative antithetical to how the game is played?
so you know oto for fact is scum...
I don't
he is a player in the game. His behaviors was suspiscious so run up.
Refusal to claim goes against the very heart of the game...
it is basically and F-U to the rest of the players.- PeaceBringer
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to add it is opposed to game play as it makes one player making themself more inportant then the game. Such an action is designed to elict never being run up on day one and is not in line with fair play. It is overall manipulitative and contrary what is sound play in this game. He made it beyond this game by saying never claims day 1. He took it beyond this game.- PeaceBringer
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In post 192, hitogoroshi wrote:In post 191, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 189, hitogoroshi wrote:Why is scum being manipulative antithetical to how the game is played?
so you know oto for fact is scum...
I don't
he is a player in the game. His behaviors was suspiscious so run up.
Refusal to claim goes against the very heart of the game...
it is basically and F-U to the rest of the players.
No, I don't know Otolia is scum.
I do know that you were willing to put him at L-1 and that you were shocked I unvoted him. So you should think the chance of his being town is pretty low. Given that, your anger at something that's only against the game if he's town seems exaggerated.
it is not exaggerated... again, I come from a different culture all together. I have no idea if he is town or not. His behavior is suspect, so voting, voting leads to claim. His chance of being town is 50-50. When players get up, I expect to see a claim. A STATEMENT THAT NEVER CLAIMS DAY ONE- is manipulative.
And if you think my frustration is not truthful, go examine my meta. I stopped the site in 2005 after stuff I couldn't live with. I even left this site over frustration over similar issues but came back to try somewhere and things had been going okay. It is a cultural difference but this kind of stuff gets me. Where I come from refusal to claim will get the person policy lynched period. But that is on per game. If someone were to claim never claim on day one they would be summarily lynched day one till they left or changed.- PeaceBringer
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In post 197, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 180, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 170, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 122, PeaceBringer wrote:I am comfortable with the oto or quil votes
back tovote quilford...
-popcorn-
why were you voting him before this?
what makes you comfortable voting him?
he caught my attention with his interactions
liked the folks that were voting him...
Whatinteractions?
Andwhichpeople voting him did you want to sheep?
the ones that he had... don't like my votes, vote me, I don't care. I am not sheeping anyone. I see folks i think town voting. Stop pretending that folks know crap on day 1. Only ones who do are mafia. Go back and look to what I responded to, it is there.- PeaceBringer
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In post 202, xRECKONERx wrote:
oh hey, I found your original vote, PeaceBringer!
Wanna explain how I'm supposed to glean any information about what interactions you disliked from an empty vote?
Clearly that was not the time I had concerns, there should be a post prior to that... I see something suspect I vote. Or I vote to get a reaction. Or I vote for other things. I am intuitive. I don't make of reasons to vote, I vote when I and how I "feel" like voting.- PeaceBringer
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In post 206, xRECKONERx wrote:Elaborate! I am thirsty for your intellect.
I have nothing to eleborate, I don't make up stuff... and you really don't elaborate either, from past experience...- PeaceBringer
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In post 208, xRECKONERx wrote:Have I ever even played a game with you?
yes, we have... shadows and light- PeaceBringer
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In post 211, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 209, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 208, xRECKONERx wrote:Have I ever even played a game with you?
yes, we have... shadows and light
I don't even remember that being a game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30965
good game to forget...- PeaceBringer
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In post 214, elusive wrote:PB, I don't get you
all the other stuff you posted is noise and this sums it up...- PeaceBringer
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In post 217, elusive wrote:My vote on PB wasn't just his anti-RQS - it was his overly long explanation to me and Wrong Song about why he wouldn't participate. Too much protest for not enough meat.
oh please tell me please how length of response is indicative of someone being scum or not? For me it is not, in fact, if anything if scum I am probably a bit less antagonistic- PeaceBringer
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In post 222, elusive wrote:PB, you spend far more time being all "I don't do RQS" then it would have taken you to actually do RQS. Something Shakesperian line here that I forgot. Oh and I'll look into your scum and town meta at some point but I've found that scum usually are less antagonistic.
nope, actually it took me all of 3 seconds in response, the rest is in your over the top response to my antagonism. I certainly could of simply said something in a far less antagonistic way... I responded antagonistically and you in turn responded the way you did, which was to take an atangonistic refusal and decide, oh my, the guy is antagonistic, he has to be scum. Antagonism in fact is not a scum behavior in most cases.- PeaceBringer
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In post 227, elusive wrote:Are you being antagonistic? It's hard to tell I guess. Or maybe my sensors need recalibration.
I do agree that scum work better when they are being pleasant but their exceptions to common sense.
that post to your RQS nonsense was purposefully antangostic... it was not passive by any stretch... it was a direct slap across your face for pushing it the level you did there... really, you want to go with the shtick, no problem, but then you start stooping to pushing folks who did not answer- well, that was just too much... so I slapped at you... of course if the push hadn't been me, I may not have slapped at you- PeaceBringer
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In post 229, elusive wrote:You metaphorically slapped me over RQS questions? As I said your tryin to hard, way too hard. Like I'm 0 to 100 real quick but you're exhibiting theatrics that are unnecessary in trying to make yourself seem antagonistic?
Genuine antagonism vs that Which stems naturally is a bit much.
go read my games and get back to me on that... also check out sharpest-knife-on-tree...- PeaceBringer
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In post 229, elusive wrote:You metaphorically slapped me over RQS questions? As I said your tryin to hard, way too hard. Like I'm 0 to 100 real quick but you're exhibiting theatrics that are unnecessary in trying to make yourself seem antagonistic?
Genuine antagonism vs that Which stems naturally is a bit much.
add in the conclusion making, you can read me that way and you can start finding ways to confirm the conclusion. Your premise is that I am engaging in interactions over and above what would be normal for me and trying "too hard" to appear a certain way. More then likely it is your response to being slapped here.- PeaceBringer
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In post 234, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 212, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 211, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 209, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 208, xRECKONERx wrote:Have I ever even played a game with you?
yes, we have... shadows and light
I don't even remember that being a game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30965
good game to forget...
I skimmed my ISO this game, I see nothing of my "meta" you invoked of not explaining shit. In fact, I saw passionate posting and explanations for my reads, so again, can you tell me why you think I'm someone who doesn't ever explain my reads?
my memory of the game is that you locked and raged and did not explain things. I recall tunneling. This is my memory of it. I don't recall much explanation. Now I got to go look to see if my memory is bad.- PeaceBringer
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In post 234, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 212, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 211, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 209, PeaceBringer wrote:In post 208, xRECKONERx wrote:Have I ever even played a game with you?
yes, we have... shadows and light
I don't even remember that being a game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30965
good game to forget...
I skimmed my ISO this game, I see nothing of my "meta" you invoked of not explaining shit. In fact, I saw passionate posting and explanations for my reads, so again, can you tell me why you think I'm someone who doesn't ever explain my reads?
looking back, it is still how I would characterize your play... in fact you have this quote that supports my view
In case you don't understand how mafia works:
- Apply pressure on something
- Pressure gives you more reads
- Rinse & repeat
I applied pressure on something, they cracked and did something egregiously scummy, and now we're lynching them.- PeaceBringer
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In post 239, xRECKONERx wrote:That doesn't support your view at all? Unless you think applying pressure means just going BAHHH YOU'RE SCUM forever without explaining why?
that essentially is what you did... very little explaining, and you did identify in that quote your playstyle is to reaction gauge, part of reaction gauging is to not make clear what your intent of behavior is...
sure you did some comments like proclaiming scumtells which out detail, which is really not explaining. In fact you have one post loudly and repeatedly proclaiming KILL IT in that game...- PeaceBringer
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In post 242, xRECKONERx wrote:Yes, and I also explained why I wanted to kill it and kept harping on those weak points.
probably a perceptual bit on me, looking back, you gave specific thoughts on PIE, which got listened to initially by me and then fate came in and mucked with everything. It appears he put you on tilt, got you run up and the game spun on to the disaster that it was... my perception is what it is... probably bad game to guage things on...- PeaceBringer
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In post 243, ChaosOmega wrote:vote: Otolia
Otolia, any response to 126? Also, do you have any links to completed games where you've said you won't claim on D1?
looking at his wiki- 3 completed games all newbie games...
oto, did you play elsewhere, if so where?- PeaceBringer
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actually this is a point in your favor- it was easy to miss...- PeaceBringer
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In post 251, Otolia wrote:@ChaosOmega : How am I supposed to know #126 was a question ? I'm sorry but it wasn't clear to me. Could you reformulate exactly please though I think what I explained below will cover what you meant to ask. As for your attempt to meta me I was against D1 claim as scum in Open 591 and against a massclaim as town in Micro 456. In the second game, the person asking for a massclaim (in this case a flavor claim) was scum.
so you did it once as scum and have motivation to stick to it as meta... which is just bad play. Micro's are a whole different animal and requests for mass claim are different. Not refusing to claim when essentially at claiming point.- PeaceBringer
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In post 305, xRECKONERx wrote:I'm just... so bored.
Mostly because... I can't find anything to latch onto this game. Like, almost everyone is just floating around.
Literally nobody has said anything I find good enough to really dig into. Elusive is being just that. Really expected more out of UT/Quilford thus far.
Maybe it's because my brain isn't functioning at 100% with my new job, idk.
Also, it's worth pointing out that this game has been dominated by a select few. Seems like so many players are just skirting by without engaging. Otolia/hito have put out content, sure. Not really interested in Kop/Cheety despite my attempts to be.
everyone else is just a brown murky pile of bleeeeeeeeeeeeegh
so you feel you have no one to pressure, reck?- PeaceBringer
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In post 308, elusive wrote:Yeah, I noticed Quilford kind of disappeared and he was under some pressure. Is that normal for him?
Otolia, what did you mean by this:
In post 271, Dinare wrote:all 3 of them have the same criticism, but it's the "WHY IS EVERYONE SO PRO-ACTIVE ?!" That really irked me.
Specifically, it seems like you were actually saying the opposite that people were inactive in the posts you made so was this some sort of typo or?
Kop, numbers confuse me on a regular basis so you're right about L0 being the actual hammer. Its still scary and I wouldn't put a player at L1 unless I read them as scummy. I don't really like running up players to claim for the sake of it because I've played with that player who will hammer regardless if its the most anti-town thing to do as part of their shtick. What is your read on Otolio? Do you think a claim from him will be useful at this point? If he claims VT, then what? Do you move onto someone else or popcorn or what?
Actually Dinare, the above goes for you as well. Walk me through what you do if Otolio claims VT. Walk me through the logic of how this gambit (?) works.
Otolio, if you're at L1 then what is the town thing to do? I'm not advocating you claim as I would actually ask players to question\interrogate me and other players and make max use of day and if they still felt like it and I couldn't find an actual scum target to try to lynch then I would claim though. Also, since you are at L1 provide a reads list on all the players in the game so far, please?
Also someone mentioned mass claims, is that a serious suggestion?
PeaceBringer, I clicked on your Wiki and its very bereft of content. Therefore, link your two most recent finished scum and town games, please? Thanks.
I really don't really know how to wiki... PB has not had a scum game when I have came back from time as play. Sharpest-knife-on-tree has some... I don't have time to go digging right now. Before I went to Sharpest-knife-on-tree I had 3 scum draws and replaced out of all 3 for varied reasons not related to drawing scum, but my frustration levels were higher as was scum and felt more prone to stick it out as town.- PeaceBringer
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In post 339, Otolia wrote:without a lot of analysis.
FYI- "analysis" is null and playstyle- I gauge reactions and feels in a moment and some time find things that support that... if you end up reading "a lot of analysis" from me, well that may be a good time to FOS me. Also, when I have tried looking and meta and other things not in my wheelhouse I have not been on point really... it is best for me to do what I do... would you really want me to pretend?- PeaceBringer
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In post 334, xRECKONERx wrote:PeaceBringer is a weird one. I don't like how he basically made up meta/history with me in order to kind of brush off my line of questioning, but I don't know if it's genuine or not. Certainly icky, but there's also something tonally about his posts that make me think 'town' for some reason.
Sorry reck, I think you are misperceiving what I meant or said. I basically was saying you are a reaction fisher and do not necessarily explain your voting/views. My recall perception was of that, it was my perception. Perceptions due tend to be flawed. So I did not make up anything and I was not "brushing" off your line of questing. I was not even reacting fishing you, just engaging in tit for tat dialogue and testing perceptions, which you have since corrected.- PeaceBringer
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In post 374, hitogoroshi wrote:but I at least want to believe it's a bit of a scumtell how he executed it, because it was a huge jump in intensity for someone he was already willing to vote
why do you want to believe that, and why do you believe that without looking at anything I have done in the past. Oh, wait, you want me to dig up the games for you...- PeaceBringer
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In post 379, hitogoroshi wrote:I want to believe it because it's a cool catch and I'd love for it to be a knockout punch. Your general demeanor makes me think it's not a knockout punch, but it still seems significant to me.
Why would I go back to your games? Like I said, I do think you'd pursue this policy regardless of alignment. That's not what I'm contesting. What I'm saying is that the pattern doesn't seem consistent with you reading scum on Otolia before. When my scumreads do things I think are scum-incidative to the point of wanting to policy lynch them, I say "Hey look at this scumbag playin more scum stuff" and not "My scum lynch is now a policy lynch". It seems to make a lot more sense that you had a fake scum read and were happy to upgrade it to this real policy crusade. Especially because, assuming you're scum and Otolia is town, you know he's flipping town at the end and would love to have an alignment-irrelevant reason you're voting for him. Whereas as town you'd love for him to flip scum and confirm that crafty scumbags are trying to pull these gambits.
it is what a lot of people do around here... you make a "judgement" based on false ideals of what a person may or may not do without any gauge...
Basics of scumhunting- imo... you have a suspect, you get them run up, they claim, you evaluate and either lynch them or move on to another suspect. And guess what, people actually play this game without some of the nonsense that passes as scum hunting around here. I have seen over and over again folks proclaiming things as "scum" to lead to mislynch and they do the same thing based on same reasoning over and over again. Oto drew my attention, good a suspect as any, then he pulls the refusal to claim bullshit and I have made my thoughts on that matter clear.- PeaceBringer
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