It's the Team Mafia Tea Party (Dead Thread)

[Zachrulez]

Welcome a huge influx of new guys!

It's actually looking good right now. We have some perfect teams going into this last game, but not SO many perfect teams that it'll involve sifting through a half dozen team threads (thank god for White Flag's scum win).

[Zachrulez]

i got snowballed by BBT and Regfan in white flag btw. i kept thinking both BBT and Regfan were scum and going "WTF HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE", then i gave up and figured it was just Reg + CES.

i did a double take when the game ended

My plan was to lynch CES and Regfan for the remainder of the game when I was nked. (Going after CES first.)

I was annoyed when Elk got lynched on D4 instead because of the possibility of CES town... so of course he eats it in lylo.

[Zachrulez]

In hindsight BBT was pretty obvious when I looked back after the reveal.

Stupid hindsight, it's only there after the fact.

So zor, was CES's explanation of why we ended up with nightless and Reg's team with Twin trap accurate? I'm kind of curious what happened there.

[Zachrulez]

Bussing also disadvantages the scum in a nightless game Metal, particularly because it helps town get scum lynches when they'd otherwise need unanimous town support for.

[Zachrulez]

So zor, was CES's explanation of why we ended up with nightless and Reg's team with Twin trap accurate? I'm kind of curious what happened there.

I looked back at it at the time it came up (when I was asked by Regfan), but I've since forgotten what the explanation was. I know both teams put 0 tokens in, so their choices didn't register much, but I forget the details. I'll look at it when I have some time soon (it takes me some time to reverse engineer the selection process).

Can we reveal our token distribution now? Not sure if you still want to keep that under wraps.

[Zachrulez]

I don't really see how it rewards bad play. You still got lynched in one game. That's punishment enough. As to him having a history, that's normally something I'd care about in doing a game. But it's not something I can possibly hope to care about in Team Mafia. There are just too many moving parts, and I'm not going to try to step in on that.

You SHOULD care and should try to avoid it. It was also bullshit because your team cannot swap living players except D1/D2, yet GreyICE replaced in late D2 and I couldn't do anything about it unless I wanted to wait around for one of my teammates to be dead?

That's just asinine.

Not sure why there's a rule limiting the swapping of living players in the first place.

It's also not something I really care about that much either so eh.

[Zachrulez]

we spent all our tokens on games btw. i actually wouldn't have minded rolling scum here, especially with this player list (i wouldn't need to do anything insane in order to win if i was scum here) - but fortunately it didn't matter

We did too.

Not really thrilled with how we distributed in hindsight. We spent two to roll Marquis scum, but then he ended up replacing out anyway... blegh. Spent one on Sotty town in nightless and two on me. In hindsight I would have taken those scum tokens and maybe used them to avoid playing in nightless at all.

I also wish the mandatory theme wasn't what it was. Namely huge, and required.

[Zachrulez]

Bussing also disadvantages the scum in a nightless game Metal, particularly because it helps town get scum lynches when they'd otherwise need unanimous town support for.

That's mafia theory. What method the scum employs to achieve their win condition is irrelevant from this discussion.


Issue here is how

1) current replacement system is skewed greatly towards townsided, because town will benefit more for choosing an appropriate replacement while scum usually don't because "too unethical" or "lurking is a scum tactic" or whatever reason

2) Reck mentioned how players with conflicts were able to hop into a game while others lacked the privilege, effectively trapping the other into a simply toxic game state (do I have your plea correct?)

3) town really should win the normal. Really

Nightless isn't the same as a regular game where you can just nightkill the town looking players. You actually have to deal with them for the whole game. The scum's real power in a nightless game is literally their voting power the closer you get to the end. All bussing does is force you to get additional lynches, and you can see how nigh impossible that was.

My point is that planning to bus your team in nightless commits you to lynching almost every town player. It should be obvious to see how crazy that notion is.

[Zachrulez]

If I had to do it over again, I think I'd stick with my original plan which was nightless with a D3+ factional kill for scum. That lets the scum deal with at least one too town to lynch player, and in Team Mafia, town generally have an edge so it's appropriate.

I don't think nightless is unbalanced per say, but it is when it's played on a site with the meta for bussing that ours has.

It's literally the one game where the love for bussing just eats a scum team alive.

[Zachrulez]

I think you're taking it way too seriously man.

[Zachrulez]

Not to mention that it's pretty tough to find four player slots that are reliable.

Like if I'd been stuck with the large theme. I dunno if I could have even done it...

[Zachrulez]

You could argue that the scum just aren't trying hard enough to adapt.

[Zachrulez]

If you take it seriously the issue is when a modkill costs you a game. That will start a whole new series of complaints.

Replacements for the most part are the least disruptive solution.

[Zachrulez]

I don't really agree with that.

You can't base your findings purely on game result.

[Zachrulez]

My last post was regarding the claim that the games were town sided.

Town wins are the result of good town play and the setup itself having some of a factor in it but not the end all be all.

Good town play does not equal townsided.

[Zachrulez]

I mean really I think winning team mafia requires a huge amount of luck. Despite that we still didn't win.

Our team largely stayed the same and we swept the last one and this year is basically... the opposite of that.

[Zachrulez]

Finally getting nked in white flag and getting Jason's slot killed finally while under suspicion were probably my two biggest positives out of this year's game.

Of course dying in white flag took away any control I had over the outcome of the game from then on.

[Zachrulez]

Hey don't worry about it Pie. You still owned that Mara lynch Day 2, that was impressive. I would have bailed when she started AtE/ flailing (like I did with ETL about ten times lol)

i just wanna say, <3.

i will just feel awful if it turns out i was the one who fucked it up for our team. that's why i'm so nervous

Pretty sure we'll get that honor for allowing STD to die.

[Zachrulez]

And by we I mean me, because despite thinking STD was scum Jason was game to protect him anyway. My intervention basically changed that.

So yeah the worst play in team mafia was probably mine...

[Zachrulez]

I mean it's a silly scum play to try to claim to have protected anyone else.

Like if we were actually scum there we'd claim to have protected STD and then shrugged our shoulders on why he died anyway.

[Zachrulez]

We should have just sucked it up and lynched him on D3 really. ^.^

I hate protective roles. I always wifom myself into the wrong play with them.

[Zachrulez]

i personally blame ank because he didnt listen to me, not ika, but it doesnt change the fact that ika quickhammered without much thinking.

You're really fucking unbelievable, you know that?

The scumteam really did look like CES/Reg at the point so I don't fault the move to lynch CES, my issue is that it didn't happen a day earlier, but being dead kept me from moving the lynch away from Elk :-\

[Zachrulez]

I liked the ability to swap teammates between games relatively early-game, exactly once, and that it was planned for and fine, but I'd want some sort of penalty for replacing out after that.

Every single scum player in the large theme except Titus replaced out and that is not really okay.

The theme by design was meant to be an incredibly long game and thus difficult to stick out. I know I menally checked out of that one along with the rest of my team on day 1. (Minor)

[Zachrulez]

I was soooooooo sure Jason was scum when I died I just couldn't believe it. Especially after the "well, maybe he RB'd Jason" I was gobsmacked after that argument.

I think we did pretty well the first few days though so it's still possible we'll pull ahead. I have hope!

Sorry we massively dropped the ball there.

[Zachrulez]

For the team mafia game slate I definitely think a mini theme, normal and white flag work for games. I dunno if a large normal would work better than a large theme for a mandatory game. It definitely would for me cause I prefer a simple setup to complex if I would have to play a large game.

Though I'm kinda eh on having mandatory games at all. Maybe smaller large games that can split the team participation next time?

[Zachrulez]

Ack. 0-4 unless there's a miracle and Egg is scum.

That is just so depressing, moreso because we'll be the only team with that mark. :-\

[Zachrulez]

argh i also would just like to register my MILD disapproval that trojan horse played the final day like he did, i think it's always best practice to let the person you're leaning towards know that you're thinking of lynching them, i think the reactions will almost always be informative and important

while i can't really defend my play this game, i really wish he would have at least fucking waited for Egg/his team in LYLO. it never works out just snap voting someone withotu giving them a chance to do anything about it.

Whilst the above is 100% good advice, personally I don't begrudge Trojan in any way.

Ultimately this game shouldn't have gotten to lylo without being broken by the PRs. If Delta hadn't wasted a result in tracking Zach a second time when he was confirmed; or if jason/Zach had bodyguarded STD to allow him to confirm somebody, then it almost certainly would have been a town win.

Yeah the game was marred by pretty terrible power role play.

[Zachrulez]

zoraster private topics are purple

It's green for me?

When going through this thread it's kinda been going back and forth between purple and green.

[Zachrulez]

Pretty certain that if jason had actually bg'ed STD it was a town autowin.

Dunno about that, but we certainly made it easier on the scum.