Micro 483: The Phantom Menace ABANDONED

[Oman]

Omg, hullo my new best friends!

[Oman]

Vice Chancellor: TellTaleHeart

I like her engagement so far. If it's a social role, I want someone who is going to ask questions and engage with people. She's definitely the biggest at that so far.


Supreme Chancellor doesn't really bother me, especailly because no confidence is just simple majority. Also because casting tie break votes is information in and of itself.

Modeckoner: Will we see who has voted for which motion after the voting phase when votes are revealed?

[Oman]

You know what else is simultaneous and private?

[Oman]

Since everyone is "equally bad" according to you (because a randomized pick is either worse than a normal pick, when you choose someone, or the same, when every possibility is equally bad (or good)), why don't you roll a dice for example? What's the point of not voting?

I will return to this question when the answer comes out.

[Oman]

Blegh, there's a really simple process answer in it. It's a lot more interesting than refusing to answer it.

[Oman]

Does this simple process answer include the ridiculous assumption that reads formed in under 3 days are going to be better than random?

Nah.

There's a point in this game where we all have to accept that it's only 3 days in but we have to pretend that our reads mean something otherwise we won't get anywhere.

[Oman]

similar thinking

On which topic, mate?

[Oman]

(Btw, as I have already said, I don't want to be the VC.)

Why not, mate?

[Oman]

(Btw, as I have already said, I don't want to be the VC.)

Why not, mate?

39

Why don't you think you'll be good?

[Oman]

Just to make my intentions know, I'm not moving my vote because there's no need to move it, I'll be online until an hour or two short of deadline (though playing Witcher or LoL).

As the shared frontrunner, I'm happy to be VC, but like the idea of two competing wagons for now (INFORMATION! WOOO!). If we get short of deadline or I hit VC-1 I intend to vote myself for VC.

As for Supremo, I dunno. Lynchproof is annoying, but the ability to noconfidence them doesn't concern me too much. I think it's worth me reading back over our little bits to figure someone out shortly, so we have a few hours of it before deadline.

[Oman]

I fell asleep.

Bow to me, plebs

Happy to hear motions, I'll give my thoughts in about 6 hours (my afternoon).

[Oman]

I don't think Oman can put forward any motions that we don't suggest.

I'm pretty sure I can put forward whichever motion I want, but I could be misreading.

[Oman]

I love the interactions that we're seeing from people who ARE talking, I just really hate that there are a few we're getting *nothing* from. I'll be posting a collective thought sometime in the next 24hrs.

[Oman]

For Mainez: Which previously suggested motion(s) would you support.

[Oman]

The problem with removing the bulge is that it gives us very little information.

My intent was to find someone in that sweet spot of talking enough to give us information, but not talking so much as to destroy the conversation when they're removed.

I don't think I need to put forward how important it is that whatever motion go forward be supported UNLESS you honestly believe them to be town. No Lynch days are never good, particularly in micros.

While I'm hesitant to remove The Bulge because it will give us little information, I think that's going to be the way it has to go. I do not subscribe to Lynch All Lurkers as a rule, but I can't imagine taking the risk that he is sailing through as a baddie.

[Oman]

TTH has the fire in her belly.

[Oman]

There's very little value in me storming around running conversation. There's much more in you guys leading charges. I'm happier with Vett over Bulge now that's he's talking, and not because I think Bulge is particularly useful until his last post, but because I don't ever dig the idea of lynching lurkers for lurking. Townies lurk too. Thems truths.

I don't like how harshly you reacted to Bulge's statements aimed at you, TTH. Calling it self serving drivel or the like (phone posting while visiting my folks) isn't valid. It's an overreaction at least. I think you're clouded by this "you are scum a day everything you say is lying manipulation" filter that you've set before your eyes. Bulge's comments to you could have been made by a townie, in innocence, though (from your perspective as a "confirmed town") mistaken.

I'm going to check green crayon's list right now and see if I do like Vett up that high in the list, because I'm not going to be motioning Bulge at the moment.


Flames needs to make similar content posts or I'm gonna have to cut a bitch.

[Oman]

My list right now is probably vettrock > dookie/bulge > flaaaaaames maybe. I dunno from there.

I like axxle and GC for town right now.


And with that I throw my chance at paragon of Mafia hunters out the window.

[Oman]

TTH, playing Mafia doesn't give you carte Blanche to yell at people.

[Oman]

vettrock > dookie/bulge > flaaaaaames

Damn straight that ain't winning you any paragon awards.

Justify this list. Starting with vettrock.

I really think you want to look at this post and the one above it and consider if that's really how you want to treat other players- other people. I mean, is this really the kind of post that you think represents A) the kind of player that you want to be, and B) the kind of player that you want to play with. This isn't face-to-face after a million beers, this is forum mafia, you have time to chill your heels.

This is day one, you need to calm down, mate, it's only going to get rougher from here.


Anyway, even though I'd rather just tell you that tantrums don't get you what you want, I guess it is time to make a decision and to go through why I don't pick the rest.

Vettrock led my list for a couple of reasons:

1. I actually agree with Dooku (regardless of not finding him massively town) that Vettrock's early posts seemed to be nothing but telling us just how town he really is. He already responded to this for those that missed it at this point but it's not enough of a response for me to be happy with the actions.

2. No game content that isn't "damn we gotta vote out that Dooku dude", which isn't a protown move. There is actually one small piece of throwaway content just after elections

I think the scum are the ones who jumped on their partner's wagon without prompting. I think it is likely that either the VC or SC is scum given that they would have the automatic support of their partners. Probably unlikely that both are scum. Yes, I know this is painting a target on me, but it had to be said.

. I hate this for so many reasons. Firstly the "this is painting a target on me" martyrdom. Fuck that, man. This is mafia, it ain't about you, it's about the TEEEEAM! Also, it's a really weird self-sacrificing comment to make. Secondly, I don't buy it. I don't think Axxle is scum and I know I'm not. I don't think scum really have to control either of these roles, and I don't think Day One it's worth the risk of tying the two together. I don't know, I don't think the logic is correct and I don't like how self-sacrificing he is about it.

Since I wrote that, his last post is actually pretty misleading. Like, mafia-type misleading. Votes aren't where a LOT of the information comes from, and it looks like we won't get much from it in this game. Information comes from interactions, from pushing wagons, of which votes are only a representation. They're easy to use in datamining and VCA because they're metrics, they're numbers.

I don't know what it is about Dooku that bothers me. That he didn't want VC/SC? He's just...playing differently I guess. I don't have a read on him, and that bothers me, because there has been a lot of comment asking for his removal, but I can't see it, so I'm concerned that I'm missing something. That's why he hits my list but never tops it.


I guess we could have set this up to be a Wisdom of the Crowds thing, we could have agreed that we treat votes like a lynch. We could have done a lot of stuff, but it looks like we're playing today as a Kingmaker position. I can hack that.



I also think we need to hear a lot more from the lynchproof dude.

I call to the table the motion to dismiss Vettrock as proposed by our Supreme Chancellor Axxle

[Oman]

Also in the meantime, I would like to let Oman know that just because he's condescending and patronizing instead of coarse and vulgar, it doesn't mean he's better than I am. :3

Well done, you managed to be all four in one sentence.

[Oman]

I say with utmost certainty: whatevs.

See ya, TTH.

[Oman]

Why Crayons?

[Oman]

Fair enough. I'm down for that.

GC is also a town read for me, I just like to get people to explicitly state stuff so they can't later say "Oh I never actually SAID I thought he was town".

Vote: Green Crayons

[Oman]

Yeah I wasn't aware of that. Is that known knowledge from the setup?

[Oman]

Yeah, but tell me who you want and I'll propose it

I'm run down at work right now (Batman launch, give it a google and see how much shit has gone wrong).

I'm supporting a Mainez removal. Seems to have too much information, non-committally dropping scumreads, all that kind of stuff.

[Oman]

I don't like how harshly you reacted to Bulge's statements aimed at you, TTH. Calling it self serving drivel or the like (phone posting while visiting my folks) isn't valid.

It's an overreaction at least

. I think you're clouded by this "you are scum a day everything you say is lying manipulation" filter that you've set before your eyes. Bulge's comments to you could have been made by a townie, in innocence, though (from your perspective as a "confirmed town") mistaken.

How/Why?

This is a pretty fair question, and I'm sorry that it took me this long to get to it.

I dislike it because it doesn't give me a tell, and it doesn't encourage a healthy game state. What happened is TTH had a comment made towards her, and she attacked back. The line "baseless, self-serving, speculative drivel" is inaccurate for the most part, and obvious on the rest. Of course it's baseless, it was mid-day-one. Of course it's speculative. This is mafia.

The reason I say it's an overreaction and not "omg scumtell" is because, yeah, I've seen town do this. There isn't a tell in here, it's just TTH being shitty that someone doesn't see the game the same way that she did. We saw an extension of that in how she reacted to me not nominating who she wants.


In a game about combative attitudes and defending ideas she threw a tantrum at the first sign of a defense and then took her ball and went home.

In short: No tell; no regrets.

[Oman]

Yeah. More "there's fuck all information on the table" baseless and speculative. But TTH's reaction was more "QUESTIONING ME!?! MEEEEE!?!"

[Oman]

That's just the same as a FoS vs. an actual vote. FoS, gauge interest, then when you realize there isn't much, you pull an explanation out of your ass. I'm not saying it was a bad explanation in itself, I just don't think it was genuine. Not sure if that's necessarily scum-mindset but igmeou.

I dunno, this doesn't stand out to me as being anything really. Anything further into the game that's given you bad bulge vibes?

[Oman]

Thubub.

What a game. So glad I let Reck pull me back into Mafia for this...