MINI 1688 — BEES!!! — game over

RedCoyote · Post Post #587 (isolation #0) » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:36 pm

Hello! I heard y'all needed a replacement.

I knew how much lalala and Tammy trusted me, so I told Marquis that it would be no problem. I told him I'd get the job done for the town.

RedCoyote · Post Post #588 (isolation #1) » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:38 pm

I'll read over in the morning and have a good post for everyone.

UNVOTE: if I am voting anyone, please!

RedCoyote · Post Post #618 (isolation #2) » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:32 am

I'm 10+ pages in. I have two strong scumreads, but I'm given pause as neither of them are currently being voted. Taking a short break.

Honestly, I didn't realize the deadline was so short or I probably wouldn't have replaced in. I'd really like more time to give my input and have it criticized and absorbed in. I'm tempted to ask the

Mod

for an extension of a two or three days if it's all the same with y'all. I promise I have something ruminating here. It's good stuff.

RedCoyote · Post Post #623 (isolation #3) » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:25 am

Yeah, I was scared of that. Okay, damn, I'll hurry up and finish because I want to try and sell y'all on a new wagon as my reads stand (page 17ish). I need more time though. I'm still here reading.

RedCoyote · Post Post #637 (isolation #4) » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:47 am

Kay, the short answer is other ongoing games with deadlines.

I'm also not about to vote someone as a scumread if I'm missing out on important stuff that happened further down the line. Don't ask me to go off half-cocked, yeah?

Still catching up. Took a break to look at a couple of other games.

RedCoyote · Post Post #654 (isolation #5) » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:16 am

As always, please do not feel obligated to read my game notes. These are just a reference point for those interested in further detail. I'll sum up my conclusions after the spoiler tag.

Spoiler: Game Notes

I'd like to preface this by saying that there's absolutely no reason to force ourselves to choose between Glork and Tammy today. Frankly, I don't think we ought to. If I had to choose, it would be that we lynch Tammy, but I just don't think we need to go down that road today. Truth be told, I haven't really read the last few pages in depth because I'm not overly enthusiastic about signing onto either of these wagons.

I'd like to propose that the players on either of these wagons listen to my case, consider it, debate with me, and see if it's a wagon that five of you (+ moi) can come to a mutual understanding on.

UT starts this game off with a particularly weak lalala vote (114). GC notices it (122). I didn't really consider it until GC brought it up, but UT made lalala's comment seem much more damning than it really was. Okay, so shortly thereafter, UT flips the script and sheeps onto the Bella wagon in (143). He's the third vote on the wagon, and he just got through defending his lalala vote (135 & 139). This jump is awkward in that I don't know what UT was trying to accomplish with his lalala vote. He never asked her a question or waited for any particular response that I can tell. That would be one thing to abandon it without those things, but then he abandons it because "anytime Glork and TTH are voting someone, you've gotta join them" (145). I'm not satisfied with this. This is not independent UT. This sounds as though UT is not honestly scumhunting. It gets worse.

A short while later, UT makes the comment that he wants to "lynch the ducks!" (224), less than a day after moving his vote to Bella. TTH calls him on it, and he says that he forgot he moved to Bella (228). There's something very unsettling about this. This gave me bad, bad vibes. You're not supposed to forget stuff like this as town. I don't. I know whom I am targeting and I don't forget about it. It's not even like Bella and lalala are all that similar either.

UT makes this bumbling misrepresentation of GC, claiming that GC is trying to townread lalala for being nice (261). GC lets it slide, but I don't think it's honest. Now we have UT just grabbing at random comments to sound like he's scumhunting, but this is just dense. Anyone that took the time to read over the discussion would know GC's intention. It doesn't sit right with me.

UT's defense of KayP strikes me as all levels of wrong when the man has had little to say about KayP (319). Frankly, his reads are an enigma to begin with, but this was a critical time to come to bat for KayP as Glork and GC were debating on whether to bring KayP on the table (316 & 317 ... *HINT HINT*, Tammy/Glork, this part is something I'd like y'all espeically to consider as I think we may all three have mutual agreement RE: KayP). UT slyly puts it out there that KayP ought not be pursued in favor or someone else (this person would eventually become BB, of course). UT ultimately agrees with a BB wagon with no qualms whatsoever (337). I guess he doesn't have a secret townread on BB like he does on KayP.

Okay, so that's me shooting both barrels. There would be more, but UT is good at keeping his card close to his vest as scum. I just finished observing him as scum in another mini game where he played very similarly (Papers, Please Mafia for those meta fans).

If a UT wagon cannot happen, then, well, let me just give y'all a scumscale:

[

Town

]------GC-----Glork-BobLob--Fro99er-[

∙

]-Tammy---SK--Bulge-KayP-lalala---UT----[

Scum

]

lalala would probably be my next choice. If I absolutely can't get either of these wagons to catch fire, I will begrudgingly choose Bulge over either Glork or Tammy. It would be a sad lurker lynch, but my only experience with Bulge was when he was lurking scum on a team with me.

RedCoyote · Post Post #655 (isolation #6) » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:21 am

GC 651 wrote:Jesus people stop writing so much.

Oops.

Anyway, tl;dr time.

UT is scum for weak votes on lalala and Bella. Never pushing them or signifying his unique presence in any meaningful way. Preying on GC/Glork's oldie status to get away with shielding KayP in favor of BB. Forgetting where his vote was from one day to the next. Calling out GC over dumb scumtells that ultimately lead nowhere. And, you know, actively lurking, pretty much (though it's hard to notice in a game with as much inactivity as this). Please consider this lynch before the day ends. If I can't get it sold, I will move to lalala, KayP or Bulge in that order.

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

RedCoyote · Post Post #657 (isolation #7) » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:41 am

I can understand that. Frankly, KayP, you're the one I'm struggling with the most. A good part of my scumread on you is associative though, so take that how you will.

I wish you'd have verbalized those internal UT suspicions more often during D1 though! It would've gone a long way in my read of you.

RedCoyote · Post Post #667 (isolation #8) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:42 am

SK 661 wrote:I will begin reading tonight but why hasn't KayP already been lynched for their signature

Let's save that for GD and vote UT together. It will be a bonding moment.

---

lalala 662 wrote:Evil C can't believe you're scumreading me

Had to do it, ducky D:

lalala 663 wrote:They told me to do it and I was at L-1!

I may have missed that then. I'd have to go back and check.

lalala 663 wrote:he was though...

That may be, but you saying "also didn't really know who to vote" completely undercuts your position. You may as well have just put a dice roll in there for good measure. The reason you vote him (from your POV) is you didn't like him being on your wagon for no good reason. You didn't like him forgetting why he suspected/voted Bella. You didn't like him ignoring the game. Any of those would've been better than "I voted him because I didn't know who else to vote :3"

---

Fro99er 664 wrote:I'm interested to hear RC's thoughts on why UT is better first, and how things would change in RC's mind if UT flips town or what avenue RC would pursue next. Especially given RC thinks there's a significant nonzero possibility that Tammy and Glork are both town.

Well, UT is better first because he's my top scumread. I mean, I know that's probably not the answer you want to hear, but I'm going to be selfish and try and usurp a leadership role in a town that is in somewhat of a deadlock. That said, I know this role is not looked upon with much favor from the majority of y'all (with good reason, mind you), so it may be a fruitless endeavor. Nevertheless, if I see an opportunity to get my top scumread lynch as town in any situation, I am going to go for that. Period. Simple answer, but it's the truth.

If UT were to flip town, frankly, I'd then selfishly pursue lalala the next day. UT's alignment doesn't have much bearing on my Tammy/Glork reads, though I can see spots where UT has attempted to buddy Glork and spots where UT has attempted to distance from Tammy, these are also based wholly on confirmation bias and could very well be just normal interactions should UT flip town.

I do want to address what you two have brought up RE: Tammy/Glork not being settled going into tomorrow should be lynch someone else and they both survive. These fierce X vs Y arguments have a way of puttering themselves out. I've been around the block enough times to know that you can get tired of yelling at the same person unless it's like some lylo situation. Additionally, I think we all ought to reiterate the idea (both mentally in our own heads as well as publicly out here in the thread) that 1) Tammy and Glork are probably not scum together and 2) at best there's only one scum between them, meaning there's more likely than not two other scum out there that are being ignored.

Now, it's my opinion that at this point I would pick neither of them for scum, but even if you weren't to subscribe to that radical an idea, you would probably take comfort in knowing there are two other scum out there. I strongly believe UT to be one of them. Should he flip scum, we may be able to better find associate tells between either Tammy or Glork (or anyone else, for that matter).

---

GC 666 wrote:UT's play this game is pretty normal in terms of how UT plays, but RC's case is probably the best parsing of UT's playstyle into some sort of alignment case that I've seen.

Meta is meta. I do maintain that I have just gotten out of observing UT's scum play in a mini that ended a short while ago. I see similarities. Then again, you know, I think UT plays similarly as town, too, so take that how you will.

RedCoyote · Post Post #669 (isolation #9) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:07 am

I'm fine with that as long as you vote UT.

If you say unvoted, I will haunt your dreams at night.

RedCoyote · Post Post #676 (isolation #10) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:12 am

I have a question that anyone may answer. Why would scum Tammy go after Glork of all players? Is this the most sensible strategy for a scum-aligned player?

RedCoyote · Post Post #695 (isolation #11) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:45 am

You know, mod, I can respect not extending the deadlines, but then you should probably run it as a BaM ruleset game. The town is the only one hurt otherwise. What the hell do the scum care if half the game replaces out (themselves potentially included)? They don't need to figure the game out, they just have to survive. I won't belabor the point as the game is still ongoing, but if you do intend to be draconian over the deadline (which isn't even a bad thing necessarily), then I have constructive criticism for you once this game is over.

Bulge 685 wrote:
V/LA until Saturday

AKA after the deadline has hit. Thanks for your help this game, Bulge.

You know, as much as the "walls are annoying", maybe you ought to show a little gratitude for players like Tammy who took it upon themselves to replace into this game and put forth an earnest effort. Say what you will about her style or whatever, she's trying. Either she's trying to scumhunt or she's trying to pull the wool over the town's eyes. I respect Bella ten times more than I do you for bowing out as soon as she felt overwhelmed rather than lurking through the entire game without any sense of shame. For you to have the audacity to complain about walls after you behavior this game? You're a child, Bulge.

I'll even go further and say that you and players that act like you are a disgrace to our website, regardless of your alignment. I replaced into this game, regrettably, not fully comprehending your indifference and the strict ruleset. I took two or three hours out of my life to go through the game and give it a shot... You've been here since the beginning. For nearly two weeks. You have no right to complain.

Anyway, I don't want to make a big thing about this, but suffice it to say I'm pretty much done with you and your attitude as a Mafia player. You're a disappointment to MS. I truly hope you never sign up for another Mafia game on the site, and certainly don't sign up for any game I run or I join.

RedCoyote · Post Post #702 (isolation #12) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:01 am

The thing is, Fro99er (and I'm sure you realize this without me saying it, I just feel like ranting), the town should not be obligated to have to spend a lynch on Bulge. That's not what the game is about. We have precious few lynches with which to hit scum, and we shouldn't have to waste them on a slot no one has any idea whatsoever. Shouldn't have to be done. I could bitch at Bulge or the mod until I'm blue in the face, but it's the town that suffers.

And far be it from me to be some sort of big shot, judgey dick that goes around telling people that they're "on my blacklist" or anything like that. I've been on this site for several years, gotten enraged with players and completely frustrated with people from all over the world, played in over a hundred games on this site, and over a thousand if you count other sites and real time Mafia... I can say honestly that in all that time there are probably only 3 or 4 players that I just get to a point where it's like, "okay, I'm done with you".

Anyway, I don't know. I'm just sick of it. To have the audacity to post 685? That's just... that's a child. I want nothing to do with that person in the game of Mafia. It says nothing about his character outside of this game. He could volunteer to feed the homeless 3 days a week and donate blood on the weekends. He could, and I'm sure is, be a nice guy outside of the site. I'd be glad to have a beer with him and chat and all that good stuff... but I don't want him anything to do with him on my Mafia games anymore.

Pedit: Those that are voting Bulge, this is not what I had in mind with my rant D:

RedCoyote · Post Post #711 (isolation #13) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:09 am

In post 701, Green Crayons wrote:
In post 676, RedCoyote wrote:I have a question that anyone may answer. Why would scum Tammy go after Glork of all players? Is this the most sensible strategy for a scum-aligned player?

If Tammy and Glork are both scum it is not an implausible strategy for Tammy to replace in, see herself almost lynched, and super attack Glork to give Glork some towncred upon Tammy's flip.

A problem with this hypothetical is that Glork was already suspecting the Bella/Tammy slot prior to Tammy replacing in. However, that inandof itself does not resolve the issue because - as Tammy herself has pointed out - Glork's push on Bella/Tammy has been bad (according to Tammy).

All of this is wild spec though until one of them flips.

I really don't think that's the most reasonable conclusion, GC. It is indeed a possibility (in fact, the Bella/Glork relationship on D1 is an even better indicator of an alliance between the two), but I find it far-fetched to want to come to that conclusion first.

Another thing to consider is what if the scumteam does not have daytalk? Tammy replaced in after N1 was over. Would she really taken it upon herself to go into superwallbus mode?

For me, you really have to suspend disbelief to get there. Not impossible, but not probable. I think they're both town, but I also think it's possible one of them could be scum. In either situation, I'd rather lynch someone else.

---

Tere 704 wrote:BAM ruleset I did a quickskim and I found this

Oh, no, Tere, don't waste your time researching that. That was for the mod's eyes. This game already has a ruleset.

RedCoyote · Post Post #712 (isolation #14) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:11 am

Additionally, I don't see Tammy as the type of player to "accept" the fact that she was going to be lynched and lay the groundwork for D3.

RedCoyote · Post Post #717 (isolation #15) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:14 am

Well, ETL, if you would kindly admit to being scum and take your lynch like a champ, I think we would all be grateful.

RedCoyote · Post Post #740 (isolation #16) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:33 am

In post 718, Green Crayons wrote:
In post 711, RedCoyote wrote:I really don't think that's the most reasonable conclusion, GC. It is indeed a possibility (in fact, the Bella/Glork relationship on D1 is an even better indicator of an alliance between the two), but I find it far-fetched to want to come to that conclusion first.

Another thing to consider is what if the scumteam does not have daytalk? Tammy replaced in after N1 was over. Would she really taken it upon herself to go into superwallbus mode?

For me, you really have to suspend disbelief to get there. Not impossible, but not probable. I think they're both town, but I also think it's possible one of them could be scum. In either situation, I'd rather lynch someone else.

I didn't say it was the most reasonable conclusion in the abstract, but you asked why would Tammy-scum vote Glork, and that's your answer: because they'd both be scum.

I don't think scum have daytalk? You're the second person who has mentioned daytalk. If I were scum in Tammy's shoes, attacking my buddy on the wagon is not some convoluted, must-plan-in-advance type of strategy. And walls - oh god the walls - is just something Tammy does, so. (shrug)

I mean, I was just killing time to post. I'm not pursuing this as a Real, True Theory at the moment.

Fair enough.

In any event, I am despondent. I love Tere and ETL for coming in, but I cannot expect them to really get a good grasp on the game in so short of time. I cannot expect anything from Bulge. I don't expect anything from SK. Glork is ???. Tammy is in her own little world. That's six of the players right there that are effectively non-factors (in a manner of speaking).

Even if by some miracle myself, you, KayP, Fro99er, lalala could all get together on the same page... would we all agree on one player? Hell, is this group even all town to begin with? If there's just one scum in this group, they can just check out for the rest of the day without repercussion.

GC 725 wrote:@RC: what do you think of TTH's thoughts on the players?

My main takeaway was that there were three people TTH called out as scumreads. Ironically, two of them are Bella (Tammy) and Glork.

I agreed with her lalala suspicions and that, along with other things, has carried over into my own scumread of lalala.

I would say that there is probably at least one scum in that group. My best bet would be lalala.

GC 730 wrote:Another big thing for me is that TTH was town, appears to have been killed as a random PR search and/or because she was onto something, and suspected Glork, Bella/Tammy, and Bulge.

No one can really make a case for or against Bulge, I think. I lean scum just because I've had experience with him lurking as scum, but that was one game and I have no idea if it's something I can rely on or not. Nothing he has said has really stuck out as scummy (though he's anti-town personified).

RedCoyote · Post Post #746 (isolation #17) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:40 am

In post 742, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:If you are town, reexamine and give me your thoughts.

What is there to reexamine? I've got a strong scumread on your slot, that's not something that's just going to up and change. I'd say it could evolve over time as I see how you scumhunt and react to wagons/other players, but we both know there's no time for that.

Lucky for you, however, I do have other scumreads. lalala, for example, would be a player I would be content to lynch today.

That said, I do not want to lynch Glork. I don't really want to lynch Tammy, either. I don't know if either of these players could sell me on those wagons today.

RedCoyote · Post Post #757 (isolation #18) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:59 am

@ETL: Darlin', you can't just replace in, call yourself town, and expect me to "reevaluate". Somehow I think UT may have also argued that he was town.

Let me give you a bit of perspective, because perhaps the disconnect is that you're assuming I've been here for a while. I replaced in, like, 36 hours prior to you. UT didn't even respond to anything I had to say about him. Hell, I haven't even received any feedback at all aside from lalala/KayP both saying they liked my case and voting with me, and GC saying he liked my case.

So, I don't know what to tell you. I know you can't speak for UT and I know you can't roll over and get lynched.

The best thing I would do, if I were in your shoes, is put together a case on someone else and try to sell me & others. This is what I did when replacing into the game.

@GC: I think you are making a serious mistake. I think this town is going to end up either lynching townTammy, or we're going to get a no lynch. Neither of these outcomes are good.

RedCoyote · Post Post #805 (isolation #19) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:27 pm

And God forbid you spare an hour or two somewhere in those two weeks, right?

Here's a thought, maybe if you were consumed 24/7 with your graduation... DON'T SIGN UP FOR THE GAME? Here's another thought, when you realized the graduation was taking up more of your time than you thought it otherwise would... REPLACE OUT OF THE GAME?

Granted, I'm probably taking years of frustration out on you, but the fact remains that you screwed with us. You screwed with the mod and you screwed with the people that have taken the time to commit to the game because they enjoy it.

I don't even care about me. Really, I don't. I'm a big boy that has lost a bunch of games to people like you and won my fair share of games thanks to people like you. But you took on the responsibility. And then you piss on Tammy because her posts are "so annoying". Have a little respect next time. Respect for players that replace in to games because they have a connection to the players or the mod or the site. Respect for others' time. Respect for the website. Respect for the community. And if you're not mature enough to understand why your attitude pisses me off, then all I can say is good luck out there, because there's more for you to learn, that's for sure.

RedCoyote · Post Post #806 (isolation #20) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:35 pm

I mean, goodness, I can't get your bs comment out of my head. Really, I can't. "V/LA until after the deadline... btw, stop with the walls they are annoying!".

God, I just really want to blow up in your face over that. Like, that is the true meaning of trigger warning right there. As in trigger me to throw a damn punch.

I'm sorry, I can't get over it. Everytime I look at it, it just boils my blood... that you'd have the gall to say something like that. And you don't even get it, do you? You don't really get it. You really don't see how disrespectful that is, do you?

Anyways, I'm sorry, guys. I don't mean to keep on this... just, damn. It really got to me today. Really, really did. It really got to me because he didn't even realize what he was doing, you know? That thought just came so naturally to him.

Bulge, you know, I'm sorry, in a way. I know you're young and you probably don't really fully comprehend all of this. Agh. Anyway, I need to stop talking.

RedCoyote · Post Post #807 (isolation #21) » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:38 pm

I just never really got it, you know? I never got it. Just don't sign up for the game. It isn't hard. And I'm even willing to excuse it if it happens once, you know, you bite off more than you can chew and don't really understand the commitment... but I know Bulge has done this exact same thing before! And he did it again!

Anyway, sorry, I will stop. Just, ugh. Lot of pent up frustration with way more than just Mafia here, I think. Anyway, sorry. Taking a lot of crap out on this.

RedCoyote · Post Post #955 (isolation #22) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:30 am

UNVOTE: EspeciallyTheLies; VOTE: Not_Mafia

I have no idea if this slot is town or not, but I'm so distraught with how several players have gone out of their way to make the game more difficult (either through replacing out, lurking, replacing in and then changing their mind, or, indeed, posting more than is reasonably needed to make their point) that I willingly accede to what I think is, for all intents and purposes, the "default" lynch.

NM, I apologize on behalf of the town... regardless of your alignment. You replaced into a slot that has absolutely no redeemable qualities. Circumstances beyond your control will likely lead to your lynching today. If you're town, then that just makes me more upset at your predecessor's stubbornness. If you are scum, please know I take no pleasure in advancing the town's wincon on you're back. Your lynch is a default, nothing more. Anyone that tries to classify it as anything else is lying to themselves.

RedCoyote · Post Post #960 (isolation #23) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:49 am

Lol, GC is far and away the most town player here, ETL. It's a wonder he hasn't hightailed it out of here with the rest of 'em yet.

Also... you weren't, like, waiting for me to unvote you before voting me, were you? Also also, why did you abandon one 1-vote wagon to start another? Also also also, do you honestly expect either wagon to be successful in 24 hours?

RedCoyote · Post Post #961 (isolation #24) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:51 am

I was thinking about this game a little bit at the zoo today, and I thought, man, it would be very cool if we could take the player list we have now and just start the game over. :3

RedCoyote · Post Post #963 (isolation #25) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:01 am

The apology is warranted as he drew the short straw replacement-wise. I also hold some culpability in this lynch insomuch as that I don't think Bulge would have gotten as much attention if I didn't bitch him out. And getting the slot lynched wasn't even my intention either.

That said, I'm realistic enough to conclude that an ETL lynch won't happen, a lalala lynch may happen, but I won't be around long enough to aggressively push it, and I'm not really comfortable enough in my scumreads of other players to justify trying to start a brand new wagon on them over a Bulge wagon that I think may have a liberally estimated 50% shot of flipping scum.

RedCoyote · Post Post #964 (isolation #26) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:03 am

ETL, when is the last time we played together? I don't remember you being quite as temperamental, but maybe I'm just getting you confused with someone else. I'll have to see if I can dig anything up.

RedCoyote · Post Post #967 (isolation #27) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:20 am

Okay, I guess we've never played together.

I think I am thinking of penguin_alien.

And both of us were in your Resistance Mafia together, so perhaps that's where the confusion comes into play.

In any event, duly noted.

RedCoyote · Post Post #977 (isolation #28) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:59 pm

I would vote SK.

RedCoyote · Post Post #984 (isolation #29) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:07 pm

I'm paranoid that ETL's scum with NM, but I mean what I said when I have no real read of NM's slot that's not meta-influenced from Bulge. I do have a slight scumread on both Kitty and SK's play, however.

In other words, UNVOTE: Not_Mafia; VOTE: SleepyKrew

RedCoyote · Post Post #985 (isolation #30) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:07 pm

EBWOP: when I

said

I have

RedCoyote · Post Post #988 (isolation #31) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:27 pm

In post 895, Green Crayons wrote:
In post 892, Metal Sonic wrote:
In post 890, Metal Sonic wrote:holy crap, you joined in 2012. WOW

2002, not 2012

wow WOW

FWIW, I don't live up to the hype.

I love this post, lol. I wish we could play together more often, GC.

RedCoyote · Post Post #993 (isolation #32) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:33 pm

Don't vote NL, GC. Wow, I was not expecting you to fulfill your 895 just because I quoted it!

SK is a fine lynch, btw. Did you ever townread Kitty or SK?

ETL, would you do a ducks lynch? I don't know if you ever answered this.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1000 (isolation #33) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:39 pm

Fro99er, if you keep scaring off our players, I'm not going to play with you anymore!

RedCoyote · Post Post #1001 (isolation #34) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:39 pm

This is one of the most craziest, drama-filled games I've ever been in.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1010 (isolation #35) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:07 pm

In post 1002, Fro99er wrote:
In post 1000, RedCoyote wrote:Fro99er, if you keep scaring off our players, I'm not going to play with you anymore!

What? I caused nobody to replace except apparently Tammy now. Even though I NEVER insulted her

Protip: I was kidding you, Mr. Statistician.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1013 (isolation #36) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:18 pm

what is a lalala duck...

same as a mallard duck?

RedCoyote · Post Post #1023 (isolation #37) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:47 pm

I think Marquis has a neverending supply of replacements. I think we should all keep replacing out just to see how far the man can reach???

RedCoyote · Post Post #1028 (isolation #38) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:08 pm

In post 1027, lalaladucks wrote:also I think you're town

Has there been a person you haven't said this about?

RedCoyote · Post Post #1034 (isolation #39) » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:17 pm

In post 1029, lalaladucks wrote:I DON'T PARTICULARLY THINK YOU ARE TOWN

so ya

In post 663, lalaladucks wrote:I think Evil C is prob town.

hmmm

RedCoyote · Post Post #1128 (isolation #40) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:53 am

ETL, why would SK claim something so outrageous as scum?

UNVOTE: SleepyKrew; VOTE: Not_Mafia

SK's claim is effectively provable at some point. SK does not need to be lynched today.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1138 (isolation #41) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:05 am

In post 1132, Not_Mafia wrote:If there are 2 back up ICs then there isn't a regular IC

I don't understand what this means. I've never played with two backup ICs before. Can you explain?

RedCoyote · Post Post #1139 (isolation #42) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:05 am

How is an IC not provable? It's the most provable role there is given that it's mod confirmed...

RedCoyote · Post Post #1140 (isolation #43) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:06 am

GC 1134 wrote: It looks like what scum would say to another scum.

That means you can vote NM, you realize?

RedCoyote · Post Post #1143 (isolation #44) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:11 am

I still don't understand, GC.

If you think that, then SK is town, yes?

Or are you implying that he's a role cop that found another backup IC that has yet to claim?

RedCoyote · Post Post #1149 (isolation #45) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:26 am

GC 1134 wrote:1. I don't like his buddying of me.

You're my number one town read. You're going to get treated that way. Sorry, thems the breaks.

GC 1134 wrote:2. I don't like his outrage directed at Bulge (Post 695, Post 702, Post 805, Post 806, Post 807). It looks fake and over the top. It looks like what scum would say to another scum. And then RC used that to vote Bulge (Post 955), which looks like scum bussing scum.

This is far too oversimplified in that I explicitly did not want to vote Bulge. I wanted to vote UT. No one, yourself included, helped me with this. In fact, you went so far as to show ETL a lot of love and said something to the effect of, "yeah, I'm not lynching ETL today".

GC 1134 wrote:3. I don't like how quickly RC unvoted Bulge/NM and then followed ETC (who replaced UT, who RC had a very lengthy post about why UT was scum in Post654) onto voting SK - while still voicing suspicions that Bulge/NM and ETC were scum buddies (Post 984).

You can't have it both ways. In your second point you accuse me of secretly wanting to lynch Bulge inspite of overt commentary to the contrary, but here you claim that I'm trying not to get Bulge lynched. Which is it?

Additionally, I'll vote ETL. I've been saying that since I came in. ETL has not cleansed me of that notion. It's crap that you're effectively criticizing me for not pushing ETL hard enough. How long am I supposed to ride a one-vote wagon to satisfy whatever arbitrary threshold you have in your head? Until 24 hours to deadline? Until 12 hours?

I mean, I guess this sort of pragmatism is lost on someone that thinks no lynch is a smart policy since "replacements are too hard", but don't take your cowardice out on me.

GC 1134 wrote:4. I don't like RC's lazy case against ducks, which as far as I can tell isn't based on much other than -maybe- an associative tell with UT/ETL? Post 1034 is particularly a bad push.

There's much more to it than that in my notes. I haven't built a case against her. I'm not going to take the time to do so if I gauge no interest in it. Given how quickly my UT case was shot down, I see no interest in trying to start something fresh yet again at this point in time.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1152 (isolation #46) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:29 am

ChaosOmega sounds arrogant enough that he probably knows what he's talking about. Who are you voting?

ETL 1150 wrote:p-edit: You're clutching to a "scum read" on me because you need to. You're scum just as much as SK is. The moment it got real momentum - because you thought NM would be the one to go - you hopped off with some bullshit excuse. Anyone protecting SK at this point is fucking. suspect.

You three (ETL, GC and NM) are the ones playing outguess the mod here. I don't know wtf to make of the claim other than it's hard for me to believe scum would make it. All I know is it sounds too fake to be fake.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1156 (isolation #47) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:33 am

In post 1153, Fro99er wrote:
In post 1149, RedCoyote wrote:
GC 1134 wrote:I wanted to vote UT. No one, yourself included, helped me with this.

KayP voted with you and expressed concerns of UT herself in D1.

Ducky voted UT with you too, but her vote bothered me. At the time she was voting Bulge
with
UT then suddenly turned and voted him with no explanation.

Yes, granted, they did, but then they abandoned me. I mean, I'll give the wagon a gold star, but L-3 isn't good enough, Fro99er.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1164 (isolation #48) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:38 am

Fro99er 1159 wrote:What did you make of ducky hopping on the wagon with you?

Hell, the devil himself can ride a wagon with me if it helps me get my scumreads lynched. But what do I make of lalala specifically? If her and ETL are scum together, she may have seen an easy bus opportunity there knowing how difficult it would be for me to sell Ut amidst the Glork/Tammy drama. If she's scum and ETL isn't, she saw an easy place to throw a helpful vote. If she's town and ETL isn't, she did have genuine UT dislike in the past that I probably tapped into a bit.

In any case, real talk, lalala is really a non-factor this game since the end of D1 (and even then it was only a slight improvement). She just calls everyone town until the winds blow another direction.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1173 (isolation #49) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:49 am

I think most people think UT/ETL is either scum or has a fair possibility of being scum, but not everyone wanted to act on it at the same time. At one point or another, myself, GC, KayP, lalala, MS, Fro99er, BB and NM have all expressed varying degress of UT/ETL = scum. That's eight of twelve, one of them being confirmed town.

---

ETL 1168 wrote:You're missing a case for townLala/townETL in your options there, RC.

Well, there's not much to add there. If you two are both town then it's just three townies trying their best and failing.

---

Fro99er 1169 wrote:So you left every possibility open (except TvT), and then said Ducky is a nonfactor, when two of the three possibilities you listed were scum?

lalala has been a non-factor relative to the game as a whole, not specifically to that wagon (though she was a non-factor there, too).

As far as "leaving every possibility open", what is there to add about TvT? It's then three townies trying their best and failing. There's no scum opportunity to try and analyze, so the argument is moot.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1174 (isolation #50) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:52 am

In post 1170, Fro99er wrote:Why aren't you pursuing either Ducky or UT slot then, instead of voteparking on NM who you aren't even sure could be scum?

In post 1172, Fro99er wrote:
In post 955, RedCoyote wrote:UNVOTE: EspeciallyTheLies; VOTE: Not_Mafia

In post 984, RedCoyote wrote:UNVOTE: Not_Mafia; VOTE: SleepyKrew

In post 1128, RedCoyote wrote:UNVOTE: SleepyKrew; VOTE: Not_Mafia

I mean...what is this. It's like you're ready to lynch anyone. Whoever has the biggest wagon.

So I should just selfishly tunnel on ETL all game regardless of the circumstances surrounding the wagon or the other players? You would rather I be a one-vote wagon on ETL until the deadline than try and help what I think is the most pro-town lynch to go through?

For someone as thorough as you presented yourself to be, you sure are throwing context out the window.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1176 (isolation #51) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:54 am

BTW, Fro99er, if you actually cared about being honest rather than just making a cheap point, SK was not the "biggest wagon" when I joined it. I said multiple times that I explicitly DID NOT want the Bulge wagon to start and instead pushed for a UT wagon. But go ahead and ignore the context to make your point.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1180 (isolation #52) » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:57 am

I would obviously be the third townie, Fro99er. Why would you assume that I would hypothesize myself as scum for your behalf?

RedCoyote · Post Post #1867 (isolation #53) » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:02 pm

In post 1866, TellTaleHeart wrote:
In post 1865, Green Crayons wrote:Wouldn't have gotten frogger I don't think, but yeeeeah sorry for being bad at this game!

It's OK. We all love you no matter how bad you suck.

This, but even had me and GC switched places, I'd have probably ended up lynching lalala, too. KayP was the only one I had really suspected in earnest, and her simply whispering sweet nothings into my ear was enough to get me to disregard it.

It was a-okay, mod. I still don't know exactly how the town got caught up amongst themselves so badly. I raise my glass to the scumteam. All of you did very good. Glork replacing out was kind of sketch, but a win is a win.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1900 (isolation #54) » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:06 am

In post 1892, Glork wrote:Long story short, I felt as if the integrity of the game was compromised by the mod changing his "no extensions, no exceptions" rule and granting a deadline extension because a couple of people asked for one. It undermined our strategy and put us at a competitive disadvantage that, by the mod's own rule set, should never have been possible.

In post 1899, Fro99er wrote:We were especially annoyed because no deadline extensions was even quoted in thread by the mod, and was extended because 100% of the players replacing out up to the time of extension were all town. Not scums fault town couldn't get their shot together, yet we were the ones being punished for it.

It double screws scum over because all the replacing in players are fresh new eyes on the game...and now they have extra time to do so as well, when the rule set clearly stated no extensions and was even quoted in game by the mod.

Oh, I'm glad y'all brought this up because I wanted to underline this as well. I have no problem with the concept behind permanent deadlines that cannot be extended under any circumstances, but if you do that then you should go full-on BaM ruleset and not allow replacements, imo (as in modkill any slots that do not participate). Because otherwise if you have a game like this where, like, over half the player list flaked, then it's going to hurt the game. You've got people coming in, they've got to make a rushed decision and it's going to hurt the town more often than not because it becomes more or less, "Uh, no time to catch up so I'll just vote for the most popular wagon". That hurts the game itself. I can empathize with the scumteam being upset that the mod went back and forth on his ruleset. That just goes to show you that it wasn't thought through enough. I don't think you can have it both ways. I mean, you can, but it seriously impacts the integrity of the game itself. Either have deadline extensions and allow replacements, or don't have deadline extensions and don't allow replacements.

Certainly Glork should replace out if the game is causing him stress to the point where it's taking a toll on him mentally and physically, however. I mean, I thought the slot was town prior to him replacing out anyway, so I have no room to complain about that. Though that is a clear sign that it's time to move on from forum mafia until/unless you can better learn to cope with the stress.