STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Trench Warfare]

He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.

Also as you can see I'm a double voter.

I am not so sure. I think I know what is going on with Mastina, but revealing what is a lie and what is true would be anti-town.

I will keep reading to see if that is right.


~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

What was said?

He said rude things about my brewery and I told him he could just drink water if he doesn't like me. He said a close friend of his once drowned in water and called me insensitive.

I think this is where the suspicion of me comes from but I'm not entirely sure.

I don't really think he's scum, though. I would never ally myself with a scum player because I am very clearly not scum (wink) and not scum doesn't ally with scum (wink).

Hopefully this post displays my town thought process...

(wink) (wink)

VOTE: Beer

This post is horrendous.

[Trench Warfare]

Cerb, can you ask Drixx if we can ally? I think it would help the four of us read each other better tonight and get grips on things.

[Trench Warfare]

#45 is bad because it drips more fake shit than vodka made of silicone water.

I don't care about the brewery. He tries to joke away suspicion while discrediting Vezok at the same time.

Given that someone said they were aligned with Beer at the start of the game, his choice of who he would pick to align with is odd. I never got that chance to pick anyone and Beer is implying he did.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

We should all totally fuse. Each and every night. Day 1 we should fuse with people we don't understand to try and further the game and limit ego fights.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

That does make sense, vezok. But.. I'm having trouble believing Lars is scum. He's a dick, not a villain. But if you're actually Sadie and he's really saying that he claimed scum then.. well first of all what the hell is he doing, because he should know Sadie is town and that making you dislike him is a terrible idea, and secondly, there's really nothing I can say to refute you there. If he's flat-out claimed scum to you then what more can be said?

Fake claims are a thing...

[Trench Warfare]

Reading the first two pages makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Please, let it get better soon.

[Trench Warfare]

Anyone know how you change your skin on this? Because I can barely read with black.

[Trench Warfare]

Tunnel, I am fine doing a three way hood if they are down for that. Dr. Pepper and I go way back to my first scum game on this site. I will need to discuss this with TSO.

I am really liking Reasonably Rational, particularly the head that said full reads on demand is stupid. If you think someone has vapid reads, make them push for one.

If the three of us are all town and can work together effectively, no scumteam will stand a chance.


TSO, I will change the scheme.


Yeah! The lynch I want is actually going through for a change.

[Trench Warfare]

Look. I'm Saddie and he's Lars. It makes sense to start in an alliance with him.

He's fucking scum. He's gloating in our PT that he claimed scum and people don't believe it.

This isn't the sort of thing scum do.

[Trench Warfare]

Would happily lynch Sonic X right now, ZZZX felt really forced in his interactions with Beer.

[Trench Warfare]

Tunnel, I am fine doing a three way hood if they are down for that. Dr. Pepper and I go way back to my first scum game on this site. I will need to discuss this with TSO.

I am really liking Reasonably Rational, particularly the head that said full reads on demand is stupid. If you think someone has vapid reads, make them push for one.

If the three of us are all town and can work together effectively, no scumteam will stand a chance.

TSO, I will change the scheme.

Yeah! The lynch I want is actually going through for a change.

This was Titus.

[Trench Warfare]

Flavour isn't going to break the game.

This.

flavour

You seem very excited to be knowledgeable about this show, and that's great, but you really need to just tone it the fuck down and stop trying to use it in lieu of scumhunting. Excellent.

WHAT was his entry??? Paraphrase it!

Max, what does the 'it's Lars and Sadie' point have to do with anything if you were joking about roleplaying? Vezok has said Beer claimed scum, and Beer has done nothing to refute it or explain the misunderstanding if that's all it is. So I highly doubt it's that.

His entry was something like: "Oh I'm scum."

New post: " I meant town. I always fuck this up."

And then some fluff about the flavor. I went hard after him for that and he started saying he is scum and he's trying to confuse the town and discredit me.

And this is exactly what he is doing. I fail to see the town thinking in that.

When I called Beer town for doing this I was picturing something completely different - a trollish scum claim he refused to retract. This is significantly more damning.

Mastin's entry was bad.

Disagree. Don't see scum claiming to become modconfirmed town on d3, especially since she knows I'd powerlynch her if it didn't happen.

I know, I know. But if Beer is lying about being Lars, then vezok is also lying about being Sadie. Sadie starting in a neighbourhood with literally anyone else makes no sense. So either they're both lying about their role names, or neither of them are.

Beer hasn't posted since Vezok claimed that Beer claimed scum. Saying 'Beer has done nothing to refute it' doesn't make any sense, they haven't had the opportunity to comment on the situation yet.

Summary: The fact that it's Lars and Sadie is what leads me to believe they are both in a neighbourhood together. Either one is lying or both are lying about their role names. I highly doubt it's the latter, because if one dies and turns out to not be Lars or Sadie, then you know the other one is lying. There's no way a Lars or a Sadie would start off in a neighbourhood without the other. So I'm inclined to believe them. So, if they are telling the truth, then it follows that Sadie is town. Lars is more unclear, and I concede that they could be scum. Personally, I don't think so, but I'm not going to let that stop me from looking at the situation properly. And right now, the situation is that vezok is claiming one thing, we haven't heard the other side of the story from Beer yet, and we already know that those two do not get along. So simply voting Beer would be really ignorant in my opinion.

EDIT: Alright, that's more info from Vezok. Okay, that's pretty bad. And I've already said that I think you're town, vezok, so..
I still wanna hear what Beer has to say, but that's good enough for a vote from me.

Unfortunately, Maxwell is probably town.

Also, if Trench Warfare actually

does

have a clue on why I am what I say I am, then they're conftown. (Otherwise, disregard this.)

*thinks furiously*

Maxwell's also pretty scum, btw. All these scum showing themselves, and not a single vote that I can make to show it. (I suppose I could symbolically vote, but it's pretty worthless given the mod won't even SHOW my moved useless vote

You think so? I thought the same at first, but the more I read of his posts he just comes off as really keen for his flavour knowledge to be helpful when it's highly unlikely to be more than minorly useful.

Also, Cheet's town.

Not committing to a read yet. Did I tell you Cheetory beat me in NY 180? He did. Behind that chirpy exterior lies a surprisingly devious scumplayer.

[Trench Warfare]

I really hate having to sign posts, but whatever.

-TSO

[Trench Warfare]

I've read up to about halfway through page 7, iirc.

[Trench Warfare]

I think Titus and I have agreed on reads about twice in two years, so don't expect miracles.

[Trench Warfare]

Apparently Titus knows something about mastin I don't, so I should probably try to sync up whenever.

[Trench Warfare]

I'm fairly sure my posting style is distinct from Titus, Maxwell. Everything posted in the last hour has been me.

[Trench Warfare]

Maximillian, let's talk about Sonic X.

[Trench Warfare]

To save time, when you reply "Certainly!", my next question will be asking you for your read, so let's just skip that.

[Trench Warfare]

Radmann, no offense, but if I were looking for an ally, you are the very last person I would choose in this player list.

I really don't want this, it's way too fucking early in the game for toxicity.

[Trench Warfare]

Ah, the game started out with vezok using reverse psychologoly on me by saying he hoped that I was town and, perhaps in part because he's such a charming fellow, perhaps in part because it was such a deviously cunning statement, or perhaps in part because I obviously felt guilty about receiving an evil-dude PM, I accidentally said I'm not... But PTs don't allow you to edit posts or something, which I find quite discriminatory but that's another issue altogether, so I had to correct that in the next post by saying that I actually meant I am town. And then I said whoops. I then mentioned that one of the many upsides of being in a fusion instead of an alliance would be performing the fusion dance. I stand by this statement, and it is less of an opinion and more of a fact.

Veko, being the master sleuth that he is, cleverly deduced that there was scum in the alliance from this and from there the jig was up. At first, I tried to play it off, pretending that it might be Varsoon. But no, Veko saw through my ruse and realised Varsoon was not scum (though this kind of reeks of inside information so perhaps requires a second look). I pleaded with him not tell everyone my deepest, darkest secrets, but alas, it was to no avail. I mentioned that perhaps if I used a lot of words and tried confusing tactics like writing content, people might believe I'm town, but he said that no one would buy that sort of thing as something town would do because you're all strong players.

And so here we are.

This is pretty quality snark, to be fair.

Man, I would have believed Beer if he had just said "It was a joke."

I would have even townread him for it.

Oh yes

Cheety probably town

Tell me.
About this.

VOTE: Sonic X

This is a thing that never really works. Please don't start doing it.

daykill:ricastle

I'd fucking love to snark at you for this, but the last time I did it actually -was- a daykill, so you get off this time.

in essence radmann is trying to bait some night actions to target him.

What's your thoughts on Sonic X explicitly asking to be targeted?

[Trench Warfare]

I'm caught up.

Something like {Cheet, Marq, Tunnel, mastin, Max} is where I'm at right now with my townbloc, though I know I'm forgetting people, and I'm kinda provisional on the former half of the bloc given that I've been burned by both before.

I think it's worth saying that I am finding it extremely hard to read Maxwell's posts. My eyes literally glaze over in boredom. He seems like a lovely guy aside from that.

-TSO

[Trench Warfare]

I also didn't read any of Sonic X's defense/anything really relating to Sonic X in general, so I need to catch up there. Also, suspect I may have glanced over something relevant pertaining to Beer and the 'hood, so yeah. It's been a long day.

[Trench Warfare]

I like tunnel as town. Mastina is town likely as well, or we're dead by day 3. Max is likely town. I agree there.

Cheet we need to talk about and Marq ain't going in that block.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I actually townread the request. He is not specifically asking to be copped, triggering Godfather fears, but he wants any action. That suggests to me a deeper motivation that it would be anti town to comment on. If there's a role such as "fruit vendor" targeting Sonic might not be a bad idea. No skin off our back if I am wrong.

Tunnel, so how does the hood work? We both ask to be your hood buddy and then the three of us are in a hood? Or do we need to round robin it?

[Trench Warfare]

Cheetory, I will town read you solidly when I see solid evidence you are town. Don't see it yet. If you're town, do not rush the process. I am not nervous about you because your scumgame. That post reads like weird buddying to me.

Tunnel, yeah it's possible but I don't think it's like Sonic to be so aggressive if scum like that. If I am still town reading everyone in our hood by the time night rolls around, I will explain there.

BTW, please answer as a practical matter what we need to do to be a three headed hood (well more like six headed).

[Trench Warfare]

I have a confession; until now, I thought Bins was a Marquis alt, and that Marquis posting was just being lazy.

My townread on Marquis is an amalgamation of the two, so I need to sort that shit out.

[Trench Warfare]

Vezok:

Can you summarise Beer's opening in the PT? From what I currently gather, he claimed scum, then said he meant town, then said he was trolling, then overcompensated to try to make you believe the whole thing was a troll.

[Trench Warfare]

It's a pity because I think I kinda like Beer's play apart from this? Attacking Sonic X seems like odd play from a scumpartner, and they're not doing it in a flashy/zealous way, which is what I'd expect if it was an early d1 bus.

My vote is not on Sonic X out of respect to Titus.

[Trench Warfare]

Can someone go back up their Cheetory vote? That would be fantastic.

[Trench Warfare]

It's a pity because I think I kinda like Beer's play apart from this? Attacking Sonic X seems like odd play from a scumpartner, and they're not doing it in a flashy/zealous way, which is what I'd expect if it was an early d1 bus.

My vote is not on Sonic X out of respect to Titus.

VOTE: unvote

Let's vote someone we both can agree on k?

[Trench Warfare]

So you could you know read the game? Come up with reads. TSO and I need to hash a few things out. Kinda surprised by two double voters with different methods. That's going to get complicated really fucking quick.

[Trench Warfare]

So you could you know read the game? Come up with reads. TSO and I need to hash a few things out. Kinda surprised by two double voters with different methods. That's going to get complicated really fucking quick.

ok i read up.

VOTE: Trench Warfare

I don't believe you. I think ika's going through his usual routine of vote Titus slot and not comment about anything else and it annoys the fuck out of me.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I wasn't expecting a second double-voter. It's exciting, though!

The odds of scum double-voter just went up, too, which I don't like so much, but recent Farside is good and I've not had a problem with grapes so far, so no need to pick at that.

Ra9in9 Bull: What the hell did Trench do to make you take a vote away from Radmann?

P-Edit: Does that actually happen a lot, Trench?

Fro99er, what's your stance on this? I've only played one game with you but you were a lot more vocal in that one.

Yes. ika tunnels me in every game regardless of either of our alignments. I intend to wrap up my current games and then not play any more with him.

[Trench Warfare]

Maxwell, I really don't want to link to every game in the past in our hydra. Pick a game, see if ika's in it. Then look at his vote. It'll be on me if we're there at the same time pretty soon. Even ika doesn't deny he tunnels me all the time.

[Trench Warfare]

Ok, whatever head is posting, can you just kick ika out? I like your focus here on showing how passive Skybird is. Passiveness isn't really a good thing at the start, if you're using it to doubtcast people. I'm also not liking how he defends Beer which I'm not a big fan of his posts. Skybird drops this contradiction too quick to make it feel like it's a contradiction.

I'd like to see whatever else you have. Not so sure I agree on the whole ZZZX looks fake though. He has this thing where I tend to scumread him for how he sounds regardless of alignment. There was a micro game we were both in. It was an idea one. I misread him and it cost us the game, so I'm real reluctant to go there.

[Trench Warfare]

Wow... I just feel totally ignored.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: Raging Bull

Total policy. Don't care. TSO can take it off.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

So demotivated. Reading now.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Short version: I hate that last vote count though.

RR is obviously town before I stopped being motivated. But every wagon has like two people on it. I half way expect people to be yelling no zomg I am right, which puts us in the position of which ego will get propped up since Raging and beer do not seem to be happening.

VOTE: unvoted

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I'm really apathetic right now but will catch up later and will also quote this in hydra when doing so.

Saw this...

[Trench Warfare]

Also there would be two more votes in fuzzy, but I can't vote and grapes is being tested by rational to verify his role because for some stupid reason it's important to do over pushing scum reads.

? Why do you think Rational isn't scumreading grapes? fmpov they are?

[Trench Warfare]

Oh short version why fuzzy, dude is major lynchbait all the time

[Trench Warfare]

Oh so you admit it's desperate? Why's that then?

Dude, Sonic posts a lot as town like a tic like me. I got a Sonic town PM in Marathon and I had to have most posts in marathon.

[Trench Warfare]

Also there would be two more votes in fuzzy, but I can't vote and grapes is being tested by rational to verify his role because for some stupid reason it's important to do over pushing scum reads.

? Why do you think Rational isn't scumreading grapes? fmpov they are?

Based on his claim?!? Are you fucking shitting me?

The claim isn't a perfect place to start but not terrible either. Two town double voters can happen but it is unlikely, it makes sense to apply pressure to see if that is the case. Grapes, according to RR, seems to be reacting poorly to that pressure.

[Trench Warfare]

Oh short version why fuzzy, dude is major lynchbait all the time

titus you know i'm always anti-lynching lynchbait

but lynchbait can still be scum

and this isn't town-lynchbait fuzzy

Why?

[Trench Warfare]

so mastina and farside's votes were forcibly "donated" to vezok and grapes

all in all it is balanced

Elaborate on this please?

So are you saying that all 4 are town because treestumps and double, 1 town one scum pair?

If what you're saying is theoretically true 3/1 splits would be unlikely


@Cheetory, I like Sonic for now. Wish he was still voting Beer

[Trench Warfare]

And trench is official on my scum radar.

Oh sorry I forgot to kiss your ass, so you're scumreading me. Total ego fest. Thanks for proving that.

Now I really don't want to lynch Fuzzy

[Trench Warfare]

I think Max, mastina, Sonic X, vezo and farside are all probably town.

I have no idea why you were townreading Sonic X at that stage and I haven't seen you make it clear yet.

As far as Ricastle goes, I'm not a fan. Going after beer is lame and easy, if he's town he'd be the number 1 thing scum would latch onto, and I thought his following push on Sonic X was really awful I have no idea why Ricastle voted for him and I can't imagine how there is some kind of PoE that could take place between Sonic and beer.

I just feel like I have no idea where your thoughts are at with this post. I can't see any real justification for your reads. You scumread Ricastle for going after Beer, because you think scum would attack Beer if he was town, but you never explain why you think Beer is town, nor why Ricastle going after Beer made him scum, when plenty of people went after Beer.

Maybe we're just seeing things differently, I guess, but I don't think so. You just seem to pass off Beer as town with no real reason for doing it and base all your reads off that and I just have no idea why you are making this a cornerstone of your reads when you have nearly no way to know it's true.

I actually townread the request. He is not specifically asking to be copped, triggering Godfather fears, but he wants any action. That suggests to me a deeper motivation that it would be anti town to comment on. If there's a role such as "fruit vendor" targeting Sonic might not be a bad idea. No skin off our back if I am wrong.

When I thought about it, Titus makes a valid point. It seems like an odd scum role that wants people to target them, given that it basically promotes bad scumplay. It can't just be a Godfather or something, there has to actually be a beneficial output for the claim to hold water, which seems more likely to come from a town role, rather than a scum one.

I started at page 16 with Sonic X as my primary scumread and this has changed. I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing.

Vezok:

Can you summarise Beer's opening in the PT? From what I currently gather, he claimed scum, then said he meant town, then said he was trolling, then overcompensated to try to make you believe the whole thing was a troll.

Did this ever happen? If you want people to actually vote Beer you need to engage them. That you didn't reply to this seems odd, given it's basically an open invitation to convert me into voting Beer. That, or you're just not reading the game.

Yeah, skybird simply asks beer how beer scumhunts. This is the exchange

Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?

No, I think suggesting

everything

must have town

or

scum motivation is silly.

OK, I see. Thanks.

Skybird just leaves it. Was skybird really interested in how beer scumhunts? If so, why not follow up on getting beer to answer that question? Or was skybird just asking it to ask it, and not actually care what the answer to the scumhunting part was?

I don't see any follow-up question to this that's particularly relevant. Did you?

Just because something isn't useful for you, doesn't mean that it's useless for me. I'm clarifying a claim that contradicts what was publicly mentioned in the rules about neighborhood mechanics, so fucking pardon me if I was confused and wanted to understand what was going on. Also, what's obvious to you isn't necessarily obvious to everybody else, so go fuck yourself. Especially when you think you're going to lecture me about "helpful", fucking lol..

This could be the first town thing Sonic X has done all game! Hallelujah!

But, the tone here is actually kinda town? I don't remember Sonic pulling this in Nightless, which I think is a shining template of everything that Sonic-scum has in his arsenal.

My role is pretty cool.
I have less cell service than I though so I doubt I'll be able to post much for the first week. I'll do my best.

Hi. I'm going to give an excuse to be a lurksack in my first post. Please don't notice.

This isn't what was said at all? Why did you randomly misinterpret this?

[Trench Warfare]

That's the end of page 22. I should hopefully get more done tonight.

-TSO

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: Radmann

You get a sheep wgertz. Don't get too egotistical. We're voting here because the other wagons are by idiots and for idiots. Basically, you win for not being completely and utterly terrible at mafia.

Gee let's lynch the awkward guy (Fuzzy) or the hydra that has a backbone to push unpopular opinions (RR) or the hydra that crappily crumbed (Sonic).

Let's avoid lynching the asshole (Raging), the guy who apparently was bragging about how scummy he was (Beer), Fulminator (the navel gazer who can only say "gee I understand why you're wagoned").

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

WHY THE FUCK HAVE NOBODY HELPED ME LYNCH FUCKING TITUS YET?

SEIROUSLY LIKE COME ONE I COME HOME FROM POKER TO FIND OUT THIS THREAD IS STILL FUCKING OPEN?

You're not trying to policy lynch Titus, though. You're trying to policy lynch me.

That's just not acceptable, my man.

VOTE: raging bull

shut the fuck up

This was what I would have said!

if you are town knock it off dude... you going to get PL ......I will vote to policy lynch if I have to I want to try to lynch scum first but I will vote to PL you if you force my hand. Take a break , calm down and get back to scum hunting

Also give a yellow card to RB ...... both are ruining the game

You seem waaay too eager to get on a policy lynch here without actually getting on a policy lynch. Your blatant testing of the waters is pretty horrible.

tl;dr occams razor: i'm a townie and good player, my forthcomingness of my bolded claim is townie, it is a townie plan and you should work with me

I feel uncomfortable with this - I don't think Occam's Razor can be applied as neatly as you're doing here, though honestly I can see you selectively applying it as either alignment.

VOTE: Ra9in9 Bull

Thanks for playing Frogger.

I don't disagree with the vote, but I have no idea why you said this to Frogger, rather than to ika.

ZZZX here. Got distracted by marathons but skimmed last pages and wtf ika.
At least I can ead his rage to know his allignment

Do you have a history of successfully reading ika?

for entirely personal, out of game reasons

If you have a romantic interest in Bins, keep it out of the fucking thread.

I didn't read yet cus freaking marathons (:D)
But I can say that I haven't seen ika rage like this as scum ever

Actually I haven't seen Ika rage as scum AT ALL.

So he got a good town read from me. I will read the reactions and perhaps I might get something. But I cant lose the 3 days of marathon!

Have you ever seen him do it as town, though? Because if you have no idea of him doing it at all, then you can't just townread him for it.

wait which trench warfare head was that
lmao

...TSO.

*bows head*

I don't understand this game. I hand you scum on a silver platter and you just ignore it.

I typed something out before I deleted it, so let me try to be succinct here: what the fuck?

I am unable to understand your fucking tack of strolling into the thread, telling us Beer is scum, and leaving without ever making any attempt to actually convince people of your opinion. Yes, this post was made before I asked you to talk to me, but I'm fairly sure that since then you have done the. exact. same. thing.

I don't know what this is? Arrogance? Inexperience? A complete lack of social skills? Because everyone except me has basically given up on you due to the way you have made the incident so opaque that no-one gives a fuck. I still feel there's something there, so I'm asking you. And you're ignoring me completely? Fuck that.

ricastle did one very scummy thing (a more legit scumtell than cooldog's "oh you are directing night actions"), but most of his stuff otherwise would have been ok. i have a method for dealing with these kind of people

What is this thing and what is your method for dealing with "these kind of people"?

God, trying to get actual information out of you is like pulling teeth.

FTR sonic and beer spat is probs town on town. Both of them are fighting like they've got nothing to lose. With like no appeasement or backing off on either end.

I agree with this.

Look. I'm Saddie and he's Lars. It makes sense to start in an alliance with him.

He's fucking scum. He's gloating in our PT that he claimed scum and people don't believe it.

This isn't the sort of thing scum do.

I agree. But your vote was kinda on beer at the time you posted this...

Yes, yes, I know, me and Titus are the worst hydra ever for dissonance. It's a work in progress.

I'm also caught up. I think Max, mastina, Sonic X, vezo and farside are all probably town. Cheeto is null town. Marquis looks bad. I feel like radmann is just a noob. I hate CooLDoG's reads. This is a lot to absorb, I'm gonna keep thinking. Ask me things to help me get involved.

Hey TunnelWarriors, where's the Ricastle townread coming from?

So I hit this post and did a double take. Did not realize the Cage was gracing us with his presence. So I did a quit ISO there and it turns out, not much to my surprise this was there first 'content' provided thus far.

Entrance, which I missed somehow, felt kinda weirdish. Not super scummy or anything but kinda odd to quote cooldog from the last page and pretty much just agree that 13 pages is a fuckload to read. It's really not anyway but that's just difference of opinion. My real qualms lie in how they entered the thread. Which felt slightly hesistant I guess. Again, nothing super strong but felt kinda scummy regardless.

The reads are alright, though, they're basically just restatments of the most commonly townread people in the game thus far with no reasoning. Nothing quite spectacular.

Next post is literally just waffling on beerslot and going after someone for going after beer. Not great.

And the rest is just a bunch of arguably open-ended/uninteresting questions. Hope to see some followup on them once they've been answered.

Yeah, grapes is town. This is the good stuff.

Your reasoning for townreading ricastle feels like something you just pulled out of your ass as well. But, I think they're town anyway, so don't bother highlighting anywhere ricastle has been scumhunting in a game of mafia.

Can you rephrase this, though? I'm not sure if your tone is off or not here because I don't fully understand it.

And am I the only one that finds it really fucking fishy that the first person they decided to randomly iso they came away with a scumread on?

...not really? If anything, it seems better than it being a townread, since they're easier to push and give a base of credibility for scum.

That's OK Vezok. I think you are annoying too.

I'm not jumping on Beer yet because his wagon seems too convenient. I don't know how to explain it better than that right now. I do see the points against him and will most likely vote him soon. But I'm not going to rush myself just to get a town read from you. After our last game together I know you will scum read me for most of the game since that's what you did last time. I flipped town in that game, just like I will here. And to be fair, I will probably scum read you for most of the game because your play style seems scummy to me. And you also flipped town in our last game. So that does make me reluctantly feel you are probably town here.

*shudder*

Feels really appease-y and buddybuddyish and also doesn't really say anything within a decently lengthy post

I also agree with this! Grapes being on the same wavelength as me looks very good.

[Trench Warfare]

I'm done for tonight, most likely.

[Trench Warfare]

I feel very conflicted about certain reads, like Sonic. This should change in time.

[Trench Warfare]

We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one.

I disagree with this pretty heavily. I can see why you think it, I just disagree.

[Trench Warfare]

We both have contempt for people who actually believe they are so good at this game they can actually make accurate reads on day one, especially

early

on day one.

I disagree with this pretty heavily. I can see why you think it, I just disagree.

I have had an occasional game where I figured out the scum team really quickly, but those are few and far between. I have yet to see anyone on this site who consistently figures out the scum team on day one. Someone will occasionally get one or two right in a reads list, but I have yet to bump into someone who can actually discern between whatever it is that Cerberus and I both do that gets us scum read and

actual

scum play. If you know of such a person, please let me know after the game. I'll want to look at their games and then pester them with questions to learn what they're doing.

I think both of us are well aware that trying to stay strictly rational, using timeless decision theory and trying to use Bayesian analysis and reasoning probably leave us open to missing some things.

You might recall that I also review games throughout, looking for the places where scum have to adjust their "narrative" for one reason or another. In fact, I think I pushed a case based upon that sort of read against the cop who cleared me in WDPT, yeah?

We're both still getting better. I would list day one as my weakest spot 10 times out of 10. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Love, now and forever,
Drixx

There are some things where I would caution against figuring out the whole scumteam day one. First, we're supposing only one scumteam. We could have multiple scumteams or serial killers. Without knowing the borders of the setup, it's near impossible to call out a team.

Yet, having one or two really strong reads it's 100% possible to be right on those. Sometimes you get inside someone's head and just know them that well. Day 1 is the weakest day for behavioral reads but if someone has a pattern they always push as scum, it would be worth pursuing. Sometimes you and I get too caught up in being right and just what is "good enough" and that this is the "best scum read ZOMG they have to be scum" and not looking at what's possible or multiple scums indeed. Playing in a few hydras has taught me this. Yet, my townreads tend to be dead bang accurate. I've found, although the candy of catching scum is alluring, that day 1 should be spent not voting town. We may mislynch still, but scum cannot take out vocal players with unpopular opinions that are valuable in the late game.

Scum will likely be the most defensive of each other day 1, as they have next to no information regarding reads. So Drixx, who are you townreading? Let's see if we can PoE this.

Oh Marquis, hi. You want more TSO, feel free to ask him something. Just acknowledging you.
~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Oh I forgot one thing. The cop being pushed for "knowing too much" isn't as terrible as you'd think. The cop knowing too much and getting new information means that he must change information for what they 100% know to be true. Scum and cops both leave hints they know someone else is town, and most players shouldn't be leaving those hints. If someone claims cop, you should look to see if their "adjustments" are related to who they claim to have checked. That's how I'd look into a cop claim. There's two major camps of how to use cop checks and knowing which the player subscribes to helps.

[Trench Warfare]

RR and Farside are both town. idk exactly what's going on there but quit it.

trench (titus/tso in case i mixed them up) makes me incredibly wary. i want to see more tso. titus is currently leaning slightly scum for me.

frogika is townish. i hope ika calms down and goes back to his old style. right now if they're town it's a bit of dickery that gives scum an excuse to wisen their mislynch pool.

But mom!!

Grumble

Fwiw I know you can have good reads but his whole freekin chase is over claims.
I just see busy work to look active.

Farside, Drixx and Cerb both tend to be on my style of wavelength. They are looking at what is possible. By having the double voters vote and test the range of their abilities, it tells them about their alignment. Are they trying to hide certain abilities? Why are they doing that?

The whole thing is getting into people's heads starting from known facts. You work from an emotional place, so such things look like busy work to you. Scum tend to have a certain range of behavior, and town another. Which are the double voters displaying?

I see some of your emotional shit as "busywork" because I don't get it, so I'm giving you a wide berth because I always scumread you.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Tunnel, you wondered why I changed my opinion/vote? This. While I appreciate Beer trying to clear my name after sullying it, this whole post reads trying to find an ally when there's no reason to. Literally the line that he felt was 'genuine' was 'Or pick my brain.' How does that reveal anything? It's scum trying to find allies. The more I read into it, I think it's just the hydra mate goofing around. Now the more sensible part is here to calm the waters. Beer is scum and him being lynched would reveal much.

Can you walk through this post a little more clearly? You think Beer was just screwing around earlygame and now they're trying to walk it back because people are finding it scummy? Is that the general idea?

Talk at me about what information you thought would be revealed by a Beerflip when you first voted for them.

Something about quoting a relatively unimportant line and saying that validated me seemed out of place. I thought from the beginning that Beer was either a bastard role with the purpose of getting themselves intentionally lynched. Then the other part showed up and just seemed very much like a Jeckyll and Hyde type of monster that someone mentioned. One head ridiculously over the top, the other head calm.

It seems like the first head was screwing around only for the other head to come in and clear everything up just read scum.

Nearly everyone has commented on Beer thus far. So, with another read through, could reveal a lot about everyone. Whether they voted for beer, disregarded him entirely, or voted him innocent all along.

Also I can reveal my role if that would help alleviate the scumreads like Mr. Mayor over there.

This post by Radmann really rubs me the wrong reads. Why would Radmann want to "alleviate the scumreads", and why is he focused on that? His push on Beer seems to be more of the type "for information" which is not what we should be pushing for IMO. Meanwhile, he's arguing that Beer was town trying to get himself lynched. I don't think so.

What are your thoughts on him?

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I think FS is prob town. He seems genuine in his wording. plus his push atleast to me seem more like town who think they have found scum than scum trying to mislynch . I don't know Far that good and don't know his meta but from a player pov he seems town

Grapes overall defensiveness makes me concern as if he trying to hide something. At first push on him he seemed to be overly defensive without reason. It was not like I was really pushing on him that hard. I still leaning slightly scum on him
Can anyone really say that grapes has not been overly defensive

I have no idea what to make of RR. They made a few good points about Grapes and Vezo roles and needing info. Than again the push is going no where and its not like either one is a must lynch at this point, I am really on the fence about RR. I could go either way on RR right now.

So are you basically waffling on RR because you think their push has no legs? That's what it reads like to me. Like, yeah they're town but I hate the push...

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

RR
what about Far in general that makes you think he is trying to mislynch you as scum as oppose to him just misreading you or misreading the situation. What makes you think he is not being genuine

TW
I not sure they are town and never implied that. I am not sure where you got that. Yes I am waffling on RR bc I do not have a good read on them.

Somehow, I don't think you're reading the same game as me.

You said they "made good points" which usually indicates town, but you're saying that it's not catching on, which is the closest thing to a reason to scumread RR there.

~Titus

Wrong hydra. Sorry.

Farside, you tend to operate more from a place of "gut" rather than a place of logic FMPOV. Drixx and Cerb tend to operate on that wavelength. You tend to look what makes you feel good about someone while Drixx, Cerb and I tend to look from a more objective place rather than subjective.

Neither theory is right or wrong, just different.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

*eyes NicCage*

So why is my Ricastle read unjustified?

Also Fluminator gets the award for thread funny guy.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Having an ego isn't scummy. I will agree to disagree on the intellectual pursuit, but I like sparring with you both when you're engaged. If the 6 of us can be on the same page, it will be unstoppable. Avoiding drama fights is also good since I feel sometimes you'll think you're doing the right thing but be wrong. The three of us tend to approach the game the same way. TSO, hopefully, will jive with wgertz, and Dr. Pepper has the historical site meta that will be useful.

The biggest issue Day 1, is that it is rarely about logic. After we get further, hopefully we can actually apply my VCA. Day 1 content matters little. Day 1 votes tell the story.

Somethings we agree on naturally. I believe I was the first to call fuzzy lynchbait. I generally tend to like players I can sync up with in their heads. I also don't get in a confrontation for shits and giggles.

I'm confirming the alliance plan. We both ally tunnel. That gets us three "person" hood.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I want to lynch vezok so fucking badly.

[Trench Warfare]

Why?

I can't remember why TSO wants to lynch Vezok badly (I was drunk when syncing). I do remember that Vezok still hasn't paraphrased why Beer "claimed scum" and that gave me pause as well on the beer wagon. If we were going to change our vote, the only place we'd agree to is ika because he always lurks as scum.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Max, where? I don't see a flavor claim as a scum claim? Varsoon wouldn't make flavor breakable.

[Trench Warfare]

The claim looks like a scumrole, straight up, I have to say, but I think that scum don't claim that in a situation like this. Hell, they claim Steven or something to draw a counterclaim at worst.

[Trench Warfare]

Spoiler: tso posts sorry varsoon

okay I'm on page 49 we need to defuse this Beer wagon now

scum don't vomit content like this when they're about to be lynched

oh fuck he's at L-1

I'm not posting from TW for one time only, mod I love you.

If Beer was scum he would actively target one suspect and keep pushing that in hope of overturning a lynch. This is coming from a major, major Beer detractor all day. That thing in the hood with vezok was NEVER explained adequately and I was taking that as a sign of Beer-scum and teammates trying to suppress it but now I genuinely think it's something else. Beer's ika push also makes legitimate sense. I haven't read on Cheetory since I am drowning in apathy lately but we have a pile of doublevoters and we can create a RB wagon if we really want.

strongest to weakest

TOWN
vezok, Maxwell, Trench, Grapes, Farside, Sonic, Tunnel, Skybird, Replace In, Mastin, CooLDoG, Fluminator, Bins, Marquis

SCUM
Cheetory, Raging Bull, NicCage, Ricastle, RR

Bullshit. You claim I am your strongest town read and nothing can make you think I'm scum, yet we have a fucking private chat in which you didn't post absolutely anything of value.

This is either vezok confbiasing or being scum given that this. doesn't. make. sense. If Beer felt vezok was blowing shit up about them for no reason as town then they would naturally avoid him - this is a null point.

[Trench Warfare]

Nine hours is enough time to form a wagon.

VOTE: Raging Bull

[Trench Warfare]

He's lurking. Ika lurks as scum.

[Trench Warfare]

This is probably one of the best player tells in the game given ika's apparent indifference to trying to correct it.

[Trench Warfare]

Are you voting Beer? If you are, do you feel confident it's on scum or are you just doing it to get a lynch?

[Trench Warfare]

The claim looks like a scumrole, straight up, I have to say, but I think that scum don't claim that in a situation like this. Hell, they claim Steven or something to draw a counterclaim at worst.

You mean beers claim? He couldn't claim Steven without vezo calling him out, they know each other's role names from their pms

True, but I think he could have claimed something that looks far better than redirector. It's obvious that the heads are experienced and competent and I just don't think that claiming redirector, which is synonymous with scum on MS, is something they'd do.

If someone suggests it was a WIFOM play I will shoot them.

[Trench Warfare]

Nic, thoughts on Beer producing most content at time of death? Because that feels like a pretty accurate towntell to me, and you seem like the type of guy who'd just love to vote RB.

[Trench Warfare]

I don't think any lynch beyond Beer is happening though, but that unsettles me. I'd rather lynch RB but I see four hours left remaining, and I'm not so confident in Beer town that I'm willing to no lynch.

Any reason why I shouldn't hammer Beer?

Oh and Cheetory, VCA is shit without flips.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

You should wait because I can give us 4 more hours to talk about things before a hammer happens.

What specific things? I think everyone's well decided. It's a Sunday, half the game won't even be here.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Freaking out while drunk isn't town and I hope you drop this stupid stupid town read when I'm dead, as a kind of last will sort of thing.

It's not a strong read, but it's enough to convince me not to flash wagon them when we have 5 hours.

It's not a read period.

So activity is?

It's so annoying when I'm read as town or as scum based on activity

Don't care about your activity. I care about Ika's. There's a very strong correlation between activity and alignment with him and he's shown no signs of fixing that correlation anytime soon.

I don't think you've done anything that looks particularly town, either: pushing vezok for not paraphrasing the PT shows that you're not reading his posts very closely or looking at his play as a whole.

All of this is correct Beer, but I don't see any way of lynching him today short of a miracle. I'm holding off hammering because we both agree with you, but I think we swung a little too late here.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I'll be back in an hour and fifteen minutes; please hold off on my hammer until then.

Ok will do.

[Trench Warfare]

Can you actually just put forth a readwall Beer?

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: Beer

This has devolved into total uselessness.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I am pretty certain reading marquis ISO im right they were Mason too.

Vote: fuzzy

I don't know if you're right on the masons. The fact that one flipped like lover mason strongly suggests the other is. Even if we are wrong, still best not to find that out as investigating that just helps scum find roles.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

VCA cannot be effective day 1 or day 2.

Oh and we have the same egos pushing the same things as yesterday. Ugh.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

What the fuck, even I am having trouble keeping up...

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

A lie there doesn't make sense as either alignment. Why make a big show of something like that if you know it will fail? Even for Sonic, that makes no sense.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

@Vezok, games are not meant to be breakable by flavor.

In Charmed Mafia, I had a fakeclaim of one of the Charmed sisters (the main characters) while I was really an evil demon. I don't think that we can go "main character" therefore town.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

@Vezok, games are not meant to be breakable by flavor.

In Charmed Mafia, I had a fakeclaim of one of the Charmed sisters (the main characters) while I was really an evil demon. I don't think that we can go "main character" therefore town.

~Titus

Games are not meant to be breakable by flavor. That doesn't mean they can't be broken by flavor.

Also not all scum will have a good fakeclaim. If one of them it's not the end of the world. There are bound to be at least 1-2 scum with bad fakeclaims. Probably more.

I point to mod error mafia where all the scum where caught because they had bad fakeclaims.

Sure and it's possible that scum mess up claims. I'm not denying that it's possible for scum to have a bad fake claim. Yet, we don't give scum information based on what

could

be. If we see evidence of scum having bad claims, then we mass claim it. Otherwise, if roles are linked to flavor, then scum get a huge boon if they have decent fake claims.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: Bins

Bins intruded on our hood and apparently can damage the abilities of everyone in the hood. She claims she thought her ability would create a second hood, yet that doesn't make sense with her speech about no one targeting her for neighborization. Having that much power in the hands of someone I do not trust is a huge problem. I don't believe a word of what she says either. It started with just a negative thing for RR and then grew into possibly damaging the whole hood.

Having large hoods without scum interference is exactly the method for town to win the game FMPOV. Having a role that can jump into any hood at will looks like a scumclaim to me.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Ricastle, and I'm just supposed to take her word for it? As scum, that's what Bins would have to say. Singling out a threat and eliminating it is alignment neutral.

Oh and Tunnel wants to be elected. We should do that.

Oh yeah, I am not meaning lynch Tunnel. Lol.

@Tunnel, are you and I reading the same hood?

[Trench Warfare]

??? I don't get it. The PT has been discussed in here. I don't think that's a shocking conclusion. I think he's just defending Bins scum but not a slip IMO.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

It's possible but not solid enough to be a slip.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

MS, he can interpet what is here. Everyone has to.

[Trench Warfare]

Who is that to?

Gn all.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Can you two stop your bitch fighting and actually vote Bins scum?

Sonic, a town ascetic does not always claim D1. I claimed D2 in InuYasha mafia. If Frogger is so convinced you are scum and can do it without claiming, then that makes sense in an OP town setup.

Frogger, Sonic just tried to gladiate you and failed. Given he was already suspecting you enough to 1 v 1 you, engaging him further will just result in 1 v 1 fighting without reason. Scum generally shouldn't attempt to gladiate so early as there wasn't much support for Sonic's lynch before his gladiate. Even with Sonic being a gambiter, there's next to no apparent reason to fake a gladiate.

[Trench Warfare]

For anyone not knowing flavor. Rose is dead. She gave her life to create Steven.

There is no way she is a role in this game.

So the mod gives scum a fake claim that cannot be true? No. Steven's mother was mentioned and thus a possible role.

[Trench Warfare]

Sonic, a town ascetic does not always claim D1. I claimed D2 in InuYasha mafia. If Frogger is so convinced you are scum and can do it without claiming, then that makes sense in an OP town setup.

yeah and look at where you ended up

frogger is scum, titus. vote him with me

Yes, having no one listen to me about the right plan. Sounds like deja vu.

[Trench Warfare]

I'm not saying sonic faked a gladiate...I'm saying he's scum. I've given reasons all D1 and now D2.

I'm not seeing much reason behind your case either.


Seriously, the two of you are acting like 5 year olds arguing who broke a vase when the wind did it. You're making it impossible to discuss much less lynch scum.

[Trench Warfare]

@Vezok,

Why would a mod give a fakeclaim that has zero chance of being true? They don't. So Steven's mom appeared and thus eligible. You are just trying to prove the game is breakable by flavor rather than scumhunting.

Can you actually discuss Bins?

[Trench Warfare]

Vezok, you are seriously not reading the thread at this point.

Bins slot has a role that infiltrates any hood they want and mass vanillaizes the hood according to her current claim. That's disastrous if Binsslot. Before Bins subbed out, she said she could willingly leave. The new occupant has done nothing.

[Trench Warfare]

Yes, Bins said she could leave.

Constantine has changed that to he can leave but the alliance gets blown up.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

@RR 1730, Wouldn't town Bins say that if that was the truth?

[Trench Warfare]

Instead, Bins says she can leave without the qualifier. Every time I turn around there's a new spin on Constantine's role PM.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina, vote with me on Constantine. Sonic v Frogger is t v t.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I don't see anything scummy about Frogger's claim and I don't see anything townie about Constantine and Bins changing their claim.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina, Ascetic does not have to claim early to be town. Frogger's scumreading Sonic, so why would he (from his perspective) warn scum they would lose their gladiate?

Maybe I could see one mistake as town, but we're up to three. Everytime we point out an inconsistency, they just "reread" the PM. How many "mistakes" are required before seeing this is scum revision?

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

P.S. I claimed day 2 as ascetic in InuYasha.

[Trench Warfare]

The claim didn't look town, though.

And when it comes to Bins, maybe from an insider's perspective it looks different.
But from out here I'm just not seeing the scum.

This is innately frustrating laying out what I think and you plugging your ears stating that you disagree.

Why do you feel that way?

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

hood is still open but this is utterly horrible if all three of us are vanilla. Mod has not posted anything.

Yes wgerts needs to shoot Constantine.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Just a personal request before I go. Can you guys have Cerberus hammer?

No. Someone scum read will hammer if you are not dayvigged.

[Trench Warfare]

He can't now if he's vanilla...did he claim character? If not, do it now, Wgeurts.

I think it might be whoever hit the inbox first. Given the mess of the claims, I don't know here.

[Trench Warfare]

In fact, anyone whose ability has been revealed might as well claim character. So it would be very helpful if you did too, Saint.

Claiming characters is bad. Let's not give scum any info.

[Trench Warfare]

Wgertz, why did you claim? That role is more effective when we can have a large hood that scum know nothing about....

Neighborhood PSA try to align with people you respect but cannot get along with well for some reason. When an agreement has been reached, I will put it here.

Hood lists

1. Drixx/Cerb with Titus and TSO
2. Bins cannot align.

Wow. We're still talking about the gladiate and ignoring the fact that Bins's slot threatened people in a hood she was not even invited to?

Ricastle, and I'm just supposed to take her word for it? As scum, that's what Bins would have to say. Singling out a threat and eliminating it is alignment neutral.

Oh and Tunnel wants to be elected. We should do that.

Not liking cooldog here. He's been in a hood with Frogger and now all of a sudden thinks Frogger's role is scum. Don't think so. If he actually thought that, I would expect a push from Cooldog sooner and frustration about being aligned with scum or someone who steals his vote.

TSO, be a dear and pick this up. I have to run.

Ensuring no ISO mistakes.

Seriously, I got no idea about this.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Fuzzy, who exactly are you scumreading? Because it's really not clear.

[Trench Warfare]

I have barely read the alliance, it's just drama drama drama and right now I can't handle that. I wanted an RB wagon at the end of day 1, and yet it doesn't seem to be happening. How did Frogger redeem himself? Because the meta case was pretty damning.

[Trench Warfare]

I've given up even attempting to reconcile reads with Titus. We work in fundamentally different ways and I doubt that will ever change.

[Trench Warfare]

I remember feeling uncomfortable about Nic yesterday as well. Nic and Frogger is what I think I want to push now.

[Trench Warfare]

Not liking cooldog here. He's been in a hood with Frogger and now all of a sudden thinks Frogger's role is scum. Don't think so. If he actually thought that, I would expect a push from Cooldog sooner and frustration about being aligned with scum or someone who steals his vote.

TSO, be a dear and pick this up. I have to run.

bang.

I actually think Frogger is making legitimate points on this page? Sonic, quote where you reasoned that resetting the VC with a day to go would be a good idea, I presume you did it somewhere.

[Trench Warfare]

It seems pretty unlikely that Sonic/Frogger are both scum, but it seems equally unlikely that neither of them are scum.

[Trench Warfare]

I just saw what Constantine did. I don't even have the emotional energy to complain - if he did it, he's a fucking idiot, but the way that he's gone about retracting it is honestly fishy as fuck and I think he's definitely faking emotions like guilt, if nothing else.

[Trench Warfare]

Why did Bins even decide to target our hood if this was her ultimate intention? Even if she was nullscumreading RR, why nuke us and TW? This doesn't make any fucking sense.

I think I understand why people are up in arms about this. I'm finally beginning to care about this game again!

[Trench Warfare]

@Cerb, Suppose that Bins/Constantine were caught scum and knew that I'd never let up and they were rolefishing. That should make their actions make sense. She's hoping for OH SHIT YOU DIDN'T VANILLAIZE OUR [ROLE HERE]!

Still waiting on Wgertz and Dr. Pepper. Dr. Pepper not being here is surprising. I was looking forward to him playing in the hood as well. The hood isn't complete without all 5 of my boys.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Wtf

[Trench Warfare]

This day is immensely frustrating. I will be back later. Need to regroup.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Fuck me. I hate you guys. Let sonic do the dayvig from now on.

Can we lynch fro99er or titus?

Wtf no

[Trench Warfare]

I confirm what RR is saying.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Vezok, RR and I have decided to neighborize other people tonight. We both agreed that you and I neighborizing would be a good idea. Please tell me if you're interested sooner rather than later, because if you're not, then we need to pick a new person for me to neighborize with.

~ObvTitus

[Trench Warfare]

@TSO because RR and I both think Vezok's town and allies/fusions come with neighborhoods darling.

[Trench Warfare]

Vezok, are you scumreading us because I called you out on your bullshit yesterday? It's beginning to seem like it.

I have no idea why the fuck Titus wants to ally with you.

@TSO because RR and I both think Vezok's town and allies/fusions come with neighborhoods darling.

But why are we wasting time with him? He completely fucking ignored me yesterday repeatedly and has shown literally no signs of attempting to change this.

This sounds like a conversation that should be occurring in your hydra PT, or perhaps in our joint PT. Whichever.

-Cerb

Yeah, well, then apparently Vezok just went to our "need to sort" pile anyway.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Ok I think we all need a chill pill here. I'm sitting to myself wondering, how the hell did we get here? I don't actually have a problem with Ricastle's shot. I'm the same type of player. A player claims a role that is CCing to me, I fucking handle that shit. Is it unfortunate, yes. Should Tunnel have probably fessed up that he didn't actually have a day vig in the hood, probably. Could Ricastle have voted Tunnel and tried to elicit reactions and scumhunt before vigging (because that shot was likely to happen)? Sure. There's many guessing and second guessing things we can do. There's zero requirement for any individual player to be perfect, only to do their best.

There's an old research story I heard on NPR radio while stuck in traffic. This old professor thinks that all these townfolk are stupid. He goes down to the county fair to see how smart they are. Their task, estimate the weight of a cow. None of the people guessing knew anything about how to weigh a cow. Yet, everyone knew how much individual things weighed, like a package. The townsfolk put in their guesses. Most of them were off dramatically. Yet, when all the results were averaged together, the average was closer than any one individual's guess. This is the same pattern I find game after game, and why my VCA is so effective.

So if we can chill out, and not expect each other to be perfect or expect the town play to be your play, that would be great. Yelling at each other is not going to be effective. Yelling should be done as a last resort, if at all. I'm not perfect there, but that's what should happen.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I will confirm that Tunnel had a plan to confirm us as town. I might as well post the plan here, given the fact that it's not going to happen anyway.

Tunnel said that he was going to commute the hood nights 3, 4 and 5. He had a one shot commute that refilled on the season finale (that he could still use on that day) and get through. He lied about commuting tonight, to try and stop scum from killing him tonight. Me, Tunnel and RR, would hopefully be alive night 5 to carry the game. That was the plan. We all townread each other and were willing to be blocked to achieve that goal.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Ricastle, RR and us are having a disagreement but I think I can help smooth some feathers tomorrow if we are both alive. Hood with me?

I still think Saint needs lynching.

Bbl.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I'm V/LA for a week sitewide - on holidays, and I won't have access. Titus is more involved in the game than I am right now, so she can handle stuff.

I see a bunch of reasonless counterwagons to Hermit. I don't get any of them.

~ObvTitus

[Trench Warfare]

I think they're newb scum that totally botched their claim and started just trying to make everyone scared to lynch them rather than scumhunting.

What's your problem with Slybird's posting? Why are their posts not "good content"?

[Trench Warfare]

There are minor things that worry me like 2192, but I put things that are awkward to everyone else (as RR tells me in the hood), so I really don't think that's enough reason for me to get on board.

[Trench Warfare]

@Farside, partially agreeing. This game is definitely suffering from too many chiefs and not enough chieftains. Everyone wants to be the hero, but that's not going to happen if we can't work together. So everyone, if they haven't already, should make a case on the person they are voting. Maybe that will help.

[Trench Warfare]

No. Chiefs are leaders. Chieftans follow Chiefs.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I am beginning to think that skybird is scum, she would trust my powers if she was town. She might be scum with frogger. I am very annoyed now.

So what if vezo thinks frogger is scummy, he thinks your scummy too.
Mastin hasn't done shit.
Can I lynch you if your wrong or stop listening to you?
Right now there is no case and point to others who make a case does not make you look town

Why? Wouldn't Sonic, if he's scum, make a wall case to look better? Even I know his thoughts.

He tried to gladiate Frogger. The only ascetic possibility came post claim. Sonic views that as scummy. It doesn't need a "case" or a wall. The people who need to make cases are people who don't want to lynch obvious scum in Constantine slot.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I think Fro99er and Sonic are both town. The thread died when we weren't discussing these two. I find that one hell of a coincidence given the fact it was obvious that neither of them were going to get much traction once we established Sonic likes to gambit and Fro99er was an ascetic. Scum want to motivate these two to go after each other, but no one wants to be the person who is actually sticking their neck out and owning it. Rather, they're hoping those two cause so much drama that we have to lynch the two of them.

Constantine should be the lynch IMO. Hands down. No town utility. No pro-town play (no saying scum wouldn't be so stupid doesn't count).

I literally do not get the wagons on anyone else but for Fuzzy who is lynchbait. The whole make cases is directed at those people, not the same people who have been fueling drama.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I don't get why Replace In is a wagon at all.

So you're saying Fuzzy has been scummier today or ? Lynchbait is a status one gets by being repeatedly mislynched. He can't be less lynchbait today.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I think RR is seeing what he wants to see. We've been discussing Constantine in the hood thread. I think he's coming around to seeing Constantine as scum, but I don't know yet. I think his refusal to vote there is indicative of RR not wanting to consider that Constantine is scum.

I won't compromise on Fuzzy unless someone provides a good case on him and it's consistent with my own research. Personality ain't going to cut it.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Link me to the case please. I don't remember it.

I generally start from the position that unless someone gives me a reason to lynch them, I don't. Particularly at deadline.

[Trench Warfare]

I might be moving over to Replace In tomorrow morning. I need to do my homework, double check everything and look through his ISO. Logically, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with that case on the surface.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

I don't get it. Town can be all over the place too.

I just don't see you doing enough towny stuff. It's more like you are only interested in staying alive instead of trying to find scum.

Why did you unvote him then when he was the leading wagon?

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: Replace in

I want to see what happens for a bit by pursuing this. If Hermit picks up, I will go back but someone has to stop being stubborn.

@Sonic/Frogger, can you stop the juvenile bullshit. Tia.

[Trench Warfare]

Or Greg is scum? I would expect a mod to have just as detailed claims for either alignment. I'm townreading you Ricastle, but I'm not going to conftown levels.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

@Sonic, you'd hate me now, but those rare times when I'm right, you love me.

I love you too honey bunch.

Whoops.

[Trench Warfare]

@RR, I could join Cooldog tomorrow. That last post by him was terrible. He says Ricastle has gone under the radar, yet you made a big deal on pushing him before we combined wagons to get a lynch. He chasizes me for not putting the lynch I want, despite me sitting on Constantine more than any other player did. While chastising me, he says he could "go for" the very wagon I am compromising to. He chastises Ricastle for going for the popular wagon, but in the same post says he could go for it.

That last post by CoolDog was all sorts of terrible.

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: CoolDog

OK.

[Trench Warfare]

Eh, that looks icky.

So you think Ika's referencing Bp, has nothing to do with your actual role?

WHAT THE FUCK NOW YOU FCUKIGN VOTE HER?

THIS IS FUCKIGN SHIT I WOUDL NTO BE SURPRISED IF THIS IS LIEM HU2 WHERE IM THE FUCKIGN BP SHIT AND SHES A FUCKED UP COP

I just kind of thought that since Ika was talking about a cop maybe they misunderstood the role or something.

No. Ika's referencing a past game where he was bp and I was an insane scum cop. He's not claiming bp here but stating roles can be fucked up.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

@Cooldog, what am I? Why did you ignore my post?

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Eh, that looks icky.

So you think Ika's referencing Bp, has nothing to do with your actual role?

WHAT THE FUCK NOW YOU FCUKIGN VOTE HER?

THIS IS FUCKIGN SHIT I WOUDL NTO BE SURPRISED IF THIS IS LIEM HU2 WHERE IM THE FUCKIGN BP SHIT AND SHES A FUCKED UP COP

I just kind of thought that since Ika was talking about a cop maybe they misunderstood the role or something.

No. Ika's referencing a past game where he was bp and I was an insane scum cop. He's not claiming bp here but stating roles can be fucked up.

~Titus

Come to think of it...that kinda makes sense with ascetic.

[Trench Warfare]

@Vezok, I don't like you answering for Mastina.

@Maxwell, He's either avoiding bussing, doing horrible distancing, trying to get towncred, or really needs Ricastle mislynched. The scum objectives aren't always known.

[Trench Warfare]

Cases are scummy

And my lawyer Mastina made one for me

Get rekt

Like that means anything

frogjuice

Ouch. Ouch. :p

Seriously, you and Frogger need to lay off each other. You're both town.

@Mastina, I'm thinking ascetic is used more like a miller here as in negative utility. Also, a vote thief, given we pick our hoods has town utility. He can ally with a townbeard and stop them from voting scum or ally with a scum and steal their vote. Frogger's role is as protown as his alignment.

As for Hermit, I can't see a legit purpose for his role.

[Trench Warfare]

*stop them from voting town

[Trench Warfare]

Btw, another point against Frogger is that BP claim earlier. (Still need to catch up, am doing so soon.)
As a town ascetic, know what your job is?

To die via nightkill

. Like a town miller.
Alternatively, to draw scum PRs if unclaimed, even though that strategy is questionable even at its best.

Know what claiming BP does?

Ensures you don't die via nightkill

.

Catch up before posting anymore please.

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina, this post while catching up thing is rather annoying when you're not reading what is happening in the thread. Please catch up then post. I hammered you for "stalling" in Organic Chemistry for that, and I have no desire to ferret out which thoughts are your current thoughts when we have viable wagons on my scum suspects. We have less than 48 hours. Frogger is not the lynch today.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

But you recognise it as irrelevant if Fro99er flips scum, right?

Trench, we're still allying tonight, yes?

Yes. We are.

[Trench Warfare]

I will likely hammer tomorrow morning. I'd do it now, but I try to avoid making decisions while suffering from insomnia.

[Trench Warfare]

RR/Ricastle, yes scum can be. I am frequently a target of "no reason" mislynches.

[Trench Warfare]

@All, I am going to hammer when I go to bed, (roughly 7-9 hours) or when Deadline minus 1 hour hits. Have your stuff sorted by then. I'm not risking a no lynch.

@CoolDog, The post you missed is the one before I voted you. Just check my ISO and go to the end.

[Trench Warfare]

Thirty minute warning. Finalize your shit.

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: ReplaceIn

Good night.

[Trench Warfare]

@RR, Throughout the history of time, The Hemmingways of the world try to solve how prehensile tails can be helpful. Instead of helping people waste time because I was so Hemmingway I forgot I couldn't, I am going to help people answer the age old question of what the fuck?

@Maxwell, I heard a rumor you could use a shot of adrenaline? Did you get it?

VOTE: Mastina

Mod:Vote count 3.0 needs replacements. :p

Thanks for the heads up! It can be hard to get everything straight, especially with how many different moving parts this game has. @_@

Mod:What happens with a hypothetical vote thief's ability if he's in a larger hood? Do they steal all the votes?

@RR, perhaps he crumbed. Skybird's role to steal abilities is very powerful. He can steal from obvtown, forcing scum to shoot him to remove the PR or shoot obvtown. Second, he made most fakeclaims worthless as the only thing scum could change is flavor.

I can not answer hypothetical questions like this one.
If you have a question about your own role, you may PM me.
The only role-related questions I will answer publicly are ones that pertain to dead/flipped roles.

How would you know if you were targeted in the night or not?

Will answer this in PT.

My bad.

[Trench Warfare]

NicCage, well we know what you're agenda is. You didn't even comment on day 3 and Mastina's not conftown.

You think more and more that Frogger's a fakeclaim but ReplaceIn said his flavor cleared Frogger and there's no reason to think ReplaceIn was lying. You could argue he's mistaken, but lying no. Again, you'd need to argue that instead of "more and more" thinking.

Because I just think about it "more and more" and you're scum trying to save Mastina by riling up Sonic.

[Trench Warfare]

I can't see any benefit in her lying about being conftown, yes.

There's a huge one. All the free townreads day 1 and Day 2. It gets ingrained Mastina = town.Escaping two lynches, doing jackshit d1 and d2 (pushing Frogger when it cannot happen doesn't count).

I want Mastina today. I would compromise on CoolDog.

Sonic, I am calling in my chips from We the Purple. Frogger is town.

This is us.

[Trench Warfare]

I am gem. Not all gems get special fusion abilities.

Also, what did I not read?

Titus

[Trench Warfare]

To be clear, I have fusion OR ally ability. Not fusion only.

[Trench Warfare]

dude fuzzy are you scum

Titus, where is the certainty coming from on these reads?

I am the tunnel queen. I know how to read tunnels others are in.

Why won't you vote Mastina?

[Trench Warfare]

Frogger isn't claiming a fusion ability

So what? Some flipped townies don't.

[Trench Warfare]

Because frogger is scum!
And nothing that mastina has done makes me think she's scum, unless she shows up tomorrow and isn't conftown

Her trigger is today. She explains today why the mod did not announce her as conftown.

Frogger is the same damn wagon that got us ReplaeIn. Not touching it.

[Trench Warfare]

Frogger isn't claiming a fusion ability

So what? Some flipped townies don't.

He's a gem race.

So what? Is the mod really going to overpower town with the abilities we have seen and not give scum any fusion ability? No. This just points to Frogger being a weaker gem and honest.

[Trench Warfare]

I mean tomorrow as in Monday

Frogger will die

Not without evidence he won't.

Frogger has rolespec and tunnelers.

Mastina has a lie she told for towncred.

[Trench Warfare]

Your point? The same names on Frogger repeat on at least 2 of the three wagons.

Who's scum on the wagon titus.

Not sure. I cannot be without a scumflip. It could be scum. It could be townbeards. I do know that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is stupid.

[Trench Warfare]

my claim is strong and i am strong
grrrr
i will crush you

If your claim is strong, authorize Ricastle to tell it to me.

[Trench Warfare]

Actually, why don't you claim?

Now you're just role fishing and I can tell the only thing you have is setup spec.

@Maxwell, To make it clear she explains or dies. Her conftown or explanation is due today.

[Trench Warfare]

Oh wait are you guys in an alliance, sorry I thought you were asking for my role in thread!
Let me think. Will you claim to him?

I already have.

[Trench Warfare]

@2883, didn't see that when making 2884

[Trench Warfare]

Right. We all should make it clear, Mastina explains, proves or dies.

[Trench Warfare]

Mastin is missing

She's VLA on Weekends but we need to send her a message that she explains, confirms or dies. Period. I don't like being mislead.

[Trench Warfare]

Oh wait are you guys in an alliance, sorry I thought you were asking for my role in thread!
Let me think. Will you claim to him?

I already have.

Okay then it's at his discretion, if he feels like you ought to know then he can tell you

Just know that I don't trust what I can't analyze. Your motivation seems pretty clear to me, so I don't know why Ricastle trusts you but it's pretty clear he does.

[Trench Warfare]

Excuse me for being dumb. Of course Frogger has an alliance or fusion ability...

It's his vote thief and proven. He literally can't do that if not in a fusion or alliance.

[Trench Warfare]

Trust is a good thing, I mostly just feel it out. I'd rather have a little too much than not enough. But your way is fine too.

p-edit: my assumption is that there are supposed to be two separate abilities, one for fusion and one for alliance.

Mine is explicitly an OR.

[Trench Warfare]

I'm here.

I'm pretty strong on mastin-town right now.

I haven't been playing this game at all since a while back because of basic apathy, plus I had adopted a policy that while this isn't the strongest town ever, it has a reasonably high amount of good players, and there was one other game which sorely lacked that. That's done now.

I am basically planning to hijack Trench Warfare because I don't agree with what we're doing as a hydra. Titus is fantastic, but we are literally the worst hydra ever, since I haven't pulled my weight in ages and that's not a good thing.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: frogger

Mastin is the town counterwagon to frogger.

[Trench Warfare]

Scum are split between the two wagons - definitely someone bussing frogger, and also someone pushing mastin as the counterwagon.

[Trench Warfare]

Yay, you're back!

Happy times ahead.

[Trench Warfare]

I am not scumreading frogger for the Gem thing, I'm not a fan of the theory and I didn't really read it either.

[Trench Warfare]

I haven't even read the Alliance PT's. I hope there's a legitimate reason that Constantine is considered town, because the last thing I remember about this game was me wanting his balls nailed to the wall.

[Trench Warfare]

Vezok was my pet scumread before I left and I should probably think about that some more.

[Trench Warfare]

Actually I remember scumreading Nic too, even though I feel bad about that because he's such a great guy. I also think Fuzzy could be scum. I know it sounds like I think everyone could be scum. It's a work in progress.

[Trench Warfare]

Nic/vezok/frog/Fuzzy/Hermit.

It's far too easy, but that's where I'm at right now. At least two of them are town, though. This game isn't that open.

[Trench Warfare]

I like that post from Nic!

I know I need to be wary that my inclination to townread him doesn't get in the way of him being scum though.

[Trench Warfare]

I have an iron-clad mastin scumtell which I've never revealed to anyone. In this particular game, it is guaranteed to work. It hasn't activated yet, but that's part of the fun.

[Trench Warfare]

It's a little awkward when you see someone called Xtoxm playing and you realise you have no recollection of them replacing in, posting or playing whatsoever.

[Trench Warfare]

VOTE: Unvote

We are not voting Frogger TSO. I feel Frogger is the town CW to Mastina. Talk to me.

~Titus

[Trench Warfare]

Actually, fuck it.

Titus is scum.
She can be dense as town.

But on a

subject she already has knowledge on

, she would not be this stubborn, this insistent, and this obtuse.
Yes, as town she's stubborn and obtuse. But the difference is that there's a consistency behind it.

Also, TSO's inactive which while not necessarily a scumtell, does make the slot look worse, soyeah.

Titus Rule: Anyone can play against strategic meta. For someone who relies on that so hard, you should also know I give that zero weight.

The walls have eyes Mastina.

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina's not conftown.

What were you expecting, a public reveal of my role PM? A direct message from the mod saying,

Mastin2 is confirmed to be a Beach City Resident

on daystart?

No, I said I was conftown for different reasons, reasons which will be clear at a slightly later time. But sometime this day phase, short of you being morons and quicklynching.

Yes. Talking with TSO, but I think the walls need to look at you.

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina, when you were stuck in the wall, was the house like your body?

Time to break this game.

[Trench Warfare]

@RR, Not productive at all. Ricastle hasn't been productive at all and just yelling BREAK THE FLAVOR pretty much the entire time. He really wants a flavor massclaim and is hellbent on that.

How do you know that Mastina has a conftown message? I just rolecopped them and Varsoon sent over what Mastina does. There's nothing about them that says conftown in the slightest. However, it does tell me something...

[Trench Warfare]

That's a fairly bad reason to not claim flavor, sure. Not scummy. Just a bad reason. TW, why did you claim your flavor to him eventually?

Is her role scummy in your opinion?

-Cerb

I did flavor claim and claimed all prior actions. I claimed Lighthouse gem. My rolecop requires me to put that phrase in the thread and was my failsafe in case I had a player I thought was town but basically started acting like Ricastle. Considering we already know Ricastle's a dayvig, I figured that it was best to publicly rolecop Mastina.

Mastina, if you persist on this bullshit that you're conftown, I will claim your ability as much as I can without being really fucking anti-town. Or I can keep my mouthshut, you can drop this pretense of you being conftown and admit you're equal with the rest of us. You know full well I don't buy that shit.

The whole "If you think I'm town trust me, while I push you for information almost never works.".

[Trench Warfare]

It's scummy because it's a dumb excuse.

It definitely has the potential to be a scum role. I assume you know what it is as well.

Yeah, sure how about NO. Now you're trying to force me to out in public.