TempBan for Players Who Sign Up and Refuse To Play

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am not proposing banning lurkers. What I am saying is that we ban players who ruin games with trolling, do we not? How is signing up for a game and then blatantly not playing any less of an offense?

Example:

Player A: Hey Player C, why haven't you posted anything game related in all of your 50 posts?

Player C: Because I don't care.

Player B: Then why did you sign up?

Player C: Does it matter?

Player A: What are your reads?

Player C: I don't have any. I'm not really reading the game.

Player B: Do you need to be replaced then?

Player C: No. I just don't care.

***Lynch Player C. He was town.***

^ I have come across this shit far too often. It's not fair to the people who signed up to play game with others, only to have one of their team mates take up space and blatantly do nothing. Literally... not playing the game.

Again, this is

not

about lurking. This is just another form of trolling in my opinion. It's like a hockey player laying down on the ice. And I really think we need to make this punishable.

If you're going to ban people for ruining games, then ban people for ruining games.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Right, not lurkers. I'm talking about players who are posting and not actually interacting with the game/other players, not actually contributing anything, not actually playing the game. They are posting, but they are not playing.

Of course there will be players who don't know what to say, but I'm specifically talking about players who admit to not playing the game, and do not just ask to be replaced.

I would post specific examples but I don't particularly feel like pointing fingers at specific people.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I have a question, ETL.

In the scenario you described, had the player C flipped scum, would that justify his behavior?

It would make more logical sense to me personally, but no, it would not justify it as he's still letting his team down by deliberately and blatantly not playing the game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"Not playing" is not a scum strategy that should ever be used.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This starts getting too much in the territory of telling other people how to play a game though, not to mention playing like you described IS a legitimate way to play as scum in that it deliberately makes you difficult to read. You can't punish a behavior as town that's a legitimate style as another alignment. That makes it too obvious then that a player who is active lurking is scum because otherwise they'll get banned. Can you see how that's a problem?

It's not a legitimate style.

It's not even a "style".

It's

literally not playing the fucking game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's your prerogative. I'm not looking for snark. I'm looking for an actual discussion about this. Responding by saying "well I'm just going to play like this to spite you and prove my point" is childish and detracts from the issue I am trying to bring up.

I understand your disagreement; I just happen to think you are wrong.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Active lurking

You are wrong, especially when you obviously do not understand the distinction here.

I'm

not

talking about lurking or actively lurking, which is reading the game and not posting.

I am talking about posting and not playing.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Putting up a non-responsive front and playing a near-zero information game is something that scum player can and

will

do that will further his team's win condition.

It's up to town to pressure them to get them talking, not up to mods to discourage such behavior with bans.

Then why do we ban trolls? There is no difference between posting bullshit



and posting bullshit.

Neither is playing the game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Active lurking

You are wrong, especially when you obviously do not understand the distinction here.

I'm

not

talking about lurking or actively lurking, which is reading the game and not posting.

I am talking about posting and not playing.

Active lurking has been defined as exactly the type of behavior you are describing and calling for to be banned actually.

Except, no. It hasn't.

Actively lurking is reading the game and not posting. It's discovered when you call someone out and they are there with a relevant response, even though they are seemingly "too busy" to play.

I appreciate your opinion on the original query. Please do not derail the discussion.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't care or I'm not paying attention qualifies under the definition.

I find it to be abhorrent and unacceptable play. It ruins games. Perhaps it ruins it more for town players than other players, but at least 75% of all players in all games on the site are going to be town players, so we allow this kind of behavior to exist because its "a valid strategy" for scum even though it ruins games for the majority of players on the site?

It's extremely frustrating to put all your effort into a game, only to watch your team mate throw the entire thing because he couldn't care less.

If you think it needs to be defined better, then, please, help me define it better.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Exactly Pie. That's all I'm saying. Not a "oh you did this in one game, no more games for you!" I'm talking about consistent behavior like this across multiple games

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If someone is doing it intentionally they should probably be dealt with somehow, I suspect a lot of these cases are just town apathy though. I don't think you can punish them out of it.

Not when it is consistent through the entire game. I definitely get the "I don't have anymore energy for this game, I can't do this anymore, I just don't care what happens anymore, etc" feeling.

I'm referring more to people who begin games or replace into games and don't play from the jump (as in Pie's example).

[EspeciallyTheLies]

force players to play a certain way

This is not at all what I'm saying. If they were actually playing, then yes, I could understand your opinion.

I am not talking about people who give up or fluff post a lot among their real posts, or lurk. I am talking about people who deliberately join games with no intention of being involved in it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Let me give another example then. Sometimes, I have problems getting any solid reads whatsoever. When this happens, I end up sitting back and watching things unfold, for days at a time even until I get strong reads. It is anti-town to contribute low-quality reads to the game thread as town as you are simply adding to the muddle of uncertainty. There was a recent game where I essentially power-lurked until D4/5. I ended up correctly identifying the entire scumteam in MYLO.

I can think of a few games off the top of my head where this has occurred. I know certain players prefer replacing into games because their reads become progressively more accurate as the game progresses, but there is no way you can know going INTO a game how things are going to play out.

I don't know if you remember or observed, but this is even more true for my play in F2F. By nature I'm not a player who enjoys participating in discussion; rather I prefer sitting back and watching things unfold until I get strong reads. Sometimes I will engage to scumhunt, other times I pick up strong reads right out of the gate. Either way just because a player is not "participating" in the way you expect someone to does not necessarily mean that they aren't.

If you spent the entire game, from beginning to end, not posting ANYTHING related to the game, then this would be a valid example. Because THAT is who I'm talking about.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

AND, furthermore, we're talking about people who ACKNOWLEDGE that they aren't even reading or playing the game, and continue to do so, for the entire fucking game.

Come on. I know you know what I'm talking about.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I know you know the difference between the type of person I'm talking about and the type of person you are.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Like, jesus christ, where did I ever say they are not living up to my expectations?

THEY AREN'T EVEN PLAYING. In your example, you are still developing reads and you are still engaging with the game mentally, and when you have something you provide it or you ask questions. The type of person I am referring to does not and will not do that, and says so, and continues to do this. Game after game after game after game.

THAT IS NOT OK.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

eh. I prefer handling stuff like that out of the game. when trying to get them engaged fails I would message the mod. but what good does that really do?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

We give out temp bans for mafia players who out their partners or play against wincon (see most recent ban). This is strictly to players of the mafia alignment, because it doesn't apply to town players. Yet, it's unreasonable to discuss temp-banning town players who refuse to actually play to wincon in this manner?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not talking about people who read and vote. I'm talking about people who blatantly and admittedly do not. I've said this like 5 times now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Rule 0 is don't be a dick.

If you are posting every couple of days with a one liner which contributes nothing to the game, you are being a dick.

You are being a dick to the mod who has spent time creating the set up and wants to see it played out.

You are being a dick to the players who are actually playing the game.

And you are also ruining other peoples fun and potentially playing against your win condition.

so much this ^ is exactly the point.