New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[Aneninen]

/confirm

[Aneninen]

And I'm not entirely sober, wellf-ck.

VOTE: Bookitty
because she's the cat amongst the pigeons.

[Aneninen]

11 pages? WTF has been happening here?

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost. I haven't forgotten about this game, I simply haven't had time yet. And I haven't expected so many posts. Can someone summarize the most important topics for me? Thanxs in advance!

[Aneninen]

Post is coming.

[Aneninen]

(1) The first thing I don't get is the House wagon.
There are quite a few players who's been doing nothing, including me.
As for this topic: check out Page11! House and I posted literally the same thing. When I post 263, noone bats an eye. When House posts 265 everybody loses their mind.
Even if that wagon topped earlier, there must be at least one scum there, regardless of House's alignment.

(2) Ozgin is flailing. He brought up at least one (or more times?) that people had been scumreading him because of that bringing up a child topic... but he was never scumread by that.

(3) Varsoon looks town. I know his scumgame (snicker, snicker) and it's not like this. Bookitty looks town too. Even if she doesn't have many posts. Same goes for TSO. Scum-TSO is much more involved in the game, I suppose. Titus is in pro-town mode, and Taly looks town too. (These are mostly based on metas.)

(4) Laladucks seems to have an "excuse-making" style. (Do you get this expression?) I'd call it scummy unless someone pointed out that she were like this as town before.

(5) As for House. Wellshyt, I've seen a town-House like this before. What's wrong there? (Caveat to (3), what the f-ck Varsoon is doing on the Laladucks wagon? Wasn't he calling her a low hanging fruit before?)

(6) If Ozgin is scum, Dragonspawn might be his partner. Actually I have some more pair-combinations too, but it's pretty much pigeon poop to think a lot about them on Day1.

(7) What if Kitz is scum? Being on the House wagon and jumping on Ozgin next. Plus, her posts after getting mere two votes. Kitz, what color is your Role PM? ^_^

Not much else now. Votes. They're moving. They're interesting as they're moving.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kitz

[Aneninen]

Still don't like how we are barely into day 1 and people are seriously pushing hard to lynch him when we have ton of day to go. Yes the citizen comment is not a good thing for him but id like to see more.

Hmm-hmm.
Ozgin is only at L–6...

I haven't considered dragonspawn enough, probably because he's been following suit right under me. I'm going to read dragonspawn again, especially now that he's apparently a wagon.

Really?

LOl @ "Obvscum Ozgin" - I'm still like, 75% positive you're literally only attacking me because you didn't like my analogy. Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourself, and get over the damn analogy. You're literally tunneling me on the premise of me claiming "VT", which is the stupidest fucking wagon. Either you're scum, or you're trying to throw this game.

I don't think she's doing so.
Why are you flailing all the time?

The changing thing: I have myself on the excel sheet in row 13 on Google Docs. I can't delete a whole row to where the rows below it will move up, and I don't want an empty row because that fucks with my OCPD.

Whut?

For the Vanilla Townie thing, my point was that Titus keeps saying I called myself Vanilla Townie, when I called myself Citizen. I know they're

equivalent in a usage sense,

but me saying "Citizen" is just how I call myself regular town. And again, I'm back to arguing this stupid fucking point.

Scarecrow.

TSO is probably just trying to add pressure to me. I just don't get that there's a fucking wagon on me based on my "misuse" of terminology.

As if noone had reasons for voting you.

Anen feels like he doesn't want to be on wagons. He suspects Ozgin. He thinks dragonspawn is his buddy. There are wagons on both. And he votes Kitz on a "what if". What?

I think I'll have some time to join any of those wagons (and I'm willing to).
By the way, what do you think about Kitzy's reaction after I voted her? (Hint: there was ...nothing.)

Also, Egg, congratulations! You've been the first one who's noticed that I'm in this game. So, let's talk, shall we? You voted for Ozgin in your next post, right after telling us that you didn't like Titus's case.

CLAIM: JESTER

pls lyncherinoes me.

Daykill: RadiantCowbells

Spoiler:

Fake Vig kill.

Spoiler: Varsoon

I removed the spoiler because of its length.

[b?]vote: Varsoon[/b]

Such a detailed case which appeared without any signs of coming...
I wonder whether someone suggested Ozgin via scum-QT to stop being defensive and attack someone instead.

[Aneninen]

Well, Egg and Taly, it's irrelevant now. I wanted to check how Kitzy would react on my vote but we've been talking too much about this topic and her reaction won't be the same is it would have been without this talk. My vote is not useful there anymore.

Egg, remember I caught up with 20 pages or so. Was that all, as for Titus's case? Using the word "Citizen"? If so, that hasn't affected me much. My problem is that Ozgin is flailing all the time and he acts as if there were nothing against him apart from the "Citizen-case" and that "analogy about bringing up a child case".

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ozgin

[Aneninen]

Anen, there are two cases with the "citizen" thing. I'll give you Titus's first and then mine. Note that I don't like Titus's
1) Ozgin said citizen. That means VT. Why would he claim VT so early?
2) Ozgin used the uncommon term "citizen" rather than "townie". The sample PM says "citizen". He looked at the sample PM.

To tell the truth, I think both cases are pigeon poop in themselves. Ozgin's

reactions

to those cases were scummy. Especially that big red shout.

Problem is no matter how big my ego gets, I'm not going to magically become scum.

Superbloc. Interesting. Not townbloc.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Varsoon's 559 is a post I totally agree with.

In all, I'm not feeling the Ozgin lynch at the moment, I also find Dragons singular posts to be more alarming other than Ozgins reactions. Since quite a few people are more sure of Dragon-scum, and because Dragon hasn't committed so much to the game - whereas,

we haven't seen Ozgin much other than him constantly defending himself

. I think it will provide more info. to encourage Ozgin to do something else.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
My problem with Dragon is the way he defends Ozgin and some other posts too (eg. the things I quoted above), not the amount of content he provides.
As for Ozgin. Again, the

way

he defends himself, including bringing up the old issues all the time, and the mysterious Varsoon-case showing up out of nowhere, but after he had been accused of flailing and overly-defensive.

@Anen, in order: Yes, I'm not, Ignore that, No it isn't, and I didn't say that.
@Taly I think my next scumspect would be Kitz, bur I don't have as much on her.
@Egg - What's your point on me again?

I bet that went for my 547.
"Yes" – so, you're defending DragonSpawn in return, aren't you?
"I'm not" – Yes, you're flailing. And you've answered nothing on the other part. I don't think Titus's calling you scum because of an analogy.
"No, it isn't" – Yes, it is.
"I didn't say that" – but you're acting as if there were nothing against you. The red shout was a blatant proof of that.
As for your Egg-answer, I think he posted something about it on the very same page.

Why am I concerned with my own survival? Isn't everyone? If my wincon is to eliminate scum, why wouldn't I scumhunt? Why does my scumhunt have to be because it's you specifically? You're just the scummiest ISO I've read.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

And I don't have a beef, like I said - I read ISOs, I thought you contradicted yourself a lot and were extremely wishy washy. This is just a flail? seriously? I'm still at like, L-5. I don't have to flail until L-2.

Why would

anyone

need to flail at L–2???

VOTE: tso
Of all the votes for ozgin this is the one with absolutely no explanation.
I'd like some reason why you are on the wagon tso. What do you think of the argument on oz and what do you think of his reaction to it?

Whut?

[Aneninen]

Woah, the laladucks wagon really folded into being a dragonspawn wagon, huh?

I too noticed that.
Because of being in a Multiball, that's not an alignment tell

in itself

on either of them.

btw Mad Max is fucking awesome.

And I hope you're not Miss Gilchrist from Agatha Christie's

After the Funeral

...

Nah, as much as you like to believe that. There's been no real case presented on Dragon nor has Dragon done anything near the level of scummy as Ozgin. I'm thinking scum are trying not to cross lynch each other.

Mm-hm.
DragonSpawn may be a partner of Ozgin or a counter built by someone.
Why did you say that last sentence there?

But Titus.
What happens when Dragon flips scum?

We lynch Ozgin.
What happens when Ozgin flips scum?

My personal opinion.
If we lynch Dragon and he flips scum, it's very possible that Ozgin's scum too.
If we lynch Dragon and he flips town, Ozgin still may be scum.
If we lynch Ozgin and he flips scum, Dragon may or may not be scum.
If we lynch Ozgin and he flips town, that's not informative about Dragon.
Still, Ozgin looks scummier.

Taly, I defended myself and then built a scum case. I'm at least actively pushing towards scum hunting, and not just trying to weigh in on every situation from the outside. You're playing cautiously, meticulously, and as if you're very removed. That's how I played my scumgame in 180.

And I was reading this in my mind like this: "look, look how town I am!"

@Ozgin, you going to run out of insults? Come on. You can do better than calling me "childish" and stubborn. Hell, the latter is accurate. I've seen scum and made the mistake of letting them go because it was too early. That's a mistake.

Lololololol, can I have the adjective "stubborn"? Can I? ^_^

It's ok.
Scum won't let me live long so you don't have to worry about me.

No scum motivation is seen for this post in a Multiball. In general, no scum motivation is seen in RC's posts in a Multiball.

Holy crap, that dragon wagon is terrible. Get the fuck off of him.

Why?

Sorry Titus, but I can't ride this wagon forever. I hope you can see through the initial abrasiveness and realize Ozgin's points are actually really good. The Ozgin wagon sucks.

WHUT?

I don't rush results. But here is what I will tell you.
(1) House is off. He's lurking far more than usual.
(2) Ozgin is probably town. Titus probably is too.
(3) Boonskies is towniest there can be.
(4) Duck is still scummy.
(5) Radiant shouldn't be playing this game but is probably town.
(6) We should be putting a lot more pressure on the people who haven't said much.
(7) You and cheetory have something going on.
(8) I need to play day 1 better. Because every game gets me scum read early on.
Now, care to step up and tell us what you've learned?

(1) I expressed my opinion about this before. Pigeon poop.
(2) More defense on Ozgin and a buddying attempt on Titus
(3) ...And Boonie defended you a couple of posts above. Flap-flap-flap-flap-poooooooooop!
(4) That's not only pigeon poop, that's crow poop! He hasn't done anything recently!
(5) Sooner or later you'll understand RC's style. It's not entirely pigeon poop.
(6) And I used to advocate the same thing when I was scum.
(7) Yeahwhatever.
(8) Excuses, excuses.

I still think the Ozgin wagon is better but this isn't a bad one either. A whole "Freshsky Frenzy" could be launched upon this readlist, there are so many kinds of pooping birds in it. ^_^

Scumpool is Dragonspawn, laladucks, T S O, Titus

TSO? Titus? Whut?

Cheetory is trustworthy. I tested him a few ways.
Ozgin is trustworthy. I tested him in a few ways.

Care to explain?

[Aneninen]

Anen, I'm a bit curious about your reads, you've been posting replies to people but I haven't seen much decision on your readings on others yet

Not much, because by the time I arrived there had been 20 pages or so.
But, some of my other reads were in 498.

Recapitulating them along with some new thoughts, these players seem to be town:
Varsoon (his scumplay is very different, plus he's efforts seem to be genuine, although I don't get his change on Ozgin)
Bookitty (posting style plus meta)
TSO (if he's scum he's more into the game and I don't know why certain players are scumreading him)
Titus (the sheer effort she's making plus she's scumhunting actively)
Taly (again, posting style, although I don't like the Ozgin-read)
RadiantCowbells (her gameplay would make no sense if she were scum)
(Yes, many of these reads are still based on meta, I must admit.)

Unsure about House, Egg and Silverwolf. House's passive gameplay is a null in itself. As for the latter two players they've done nothing scummy but I can see new posts from them, which may be worth examining. (Although they're still the lean town cathegory.) Post-edit: I really liked Silverwolf's 643, she may be town too.

As I've already expressed, Ozgin, DragonSpawn and Kitz are possible scums. (Although Kitzy's 649 is a gut-read townpost, her frustreation seems to be genuine.) I don't get the Boonskiies-townread of others at all, especially because he and DragonSpawn are cross-defending each other. Unsure about Laladucks and it's concerning that most of us seem to have forgotten about him. Skybird is similar... as far as I can remember, he used to be FoS-ed on the early pages but both his posts and the talk about him seem to have gotten less frequent. No idea about Cheetory at all.

No opinion about the others. They're either under my radar or have provided nothing useful yet.

That's all I have now. Not much, I know.

[Aneninen]

@Aenen, You say I keep bringing up old arguments? I'm repeated finding myself having to refute the one argument against me, which I think is stupid in itself and all of it's variants.

And I'm scumreading you because of your

reactions

.

I will catch up later tonight tomorrow. I have not been feeling well.

Get well soon!

@Aneninen - what do you think that means? Don't need to answer that, but just ponder on about it.

I'll do so.

For usefulness's sake, I'm going to keep the names of people who are on the wagon right now.

RadiantCowbells, House, Silverwolf, Bookitty, Cheetory6, Taly, Varsoon

Okay, let's assume for a split second that you're right. Can't you imagine players misreading Dragon? Can't you see scummy things in his posts?

His goddamn name is Adenine.

Good.
In that case, you can do nothing against me. I'm in the DNA of all living things. Period.

[Aneninen]

Huh. People posted some pretty thick stuff between last night and now! I hope I can address everyone.

@Anenien:
Here's some info on my scumpool and why they're there:
Dragonspawn for reasons I've been bringing up
TSO for now being much of a presence AND slapping a naked vote onto the Ozgin Wagon (Needs pressure, really)
Titus for clutching very hard to the Ozgin-Citizen thing, but I also feel like Titus was really quick to townread me and I may've turned a blind eye to her because of that. There's a few very early Titus posts that ping to me as well.
Here's why I trust these people (for now at least):
Cheetory has had three good chances to absolutely turn the game around on me and easily pull a lynch on me. Instead, he's stuck to his guns, consistently pressured players that he felt needed the pressure, and been generally helpful to keeping the gamestate from being bogged down. He's asked good questions and made tangible results and progress from those questions.
As for Ozgin, he seems to approach the game with an abrasive, kind of I-am-right mindset and has it dead-set in his head that buddying/sheeping is scummy, but those things seem to genuinely come from his playstyle rather than him trying to aggressively scumpaint me and others as I was thinking before. The fact that he was willing to enter a dialogue with me rather than just deafly tunnel away also indicates that he's trying to come to common ground and understand the game rather than push advantages. Furthermore, if he was on a team with other players, I suspect that I would have been thrown a lot more shade, and yet, most people seem to be townreading me for one reason or another. Even furthermore, his Citizen claim checks out, and I genuinely believe that he actually may be a Citizen and that Titus is likely scum based on the fact that Titus wasn't fully aware of the disparity in Role PMs. The short of this is that we'll know the truth very soon but we can put good stock in Ozgin being town.

DragonSpawn: may be ok.
TSO: pigeon poop.
Titus is being Titus, I think.
Cheetory: you may be right here, I know very little about him right now.
Ozgin: yet again, his reactions. I don't like them.

I agree that Kitz needs more pressure.

Good idea.

@Kitz:
Well, let's say you roll Serial Killer or a scum-team (which I assume are told in their role PM that their wincon is to destroy the other scum factions).
In confirming that you've read your role PM, you're saying that you acknowledge that information.
So, by you not knowing this is multiball, you may be very well townslipping, since the town role PM win-con only says 'when all threats to town have been eliminated.'
I don't put a ton of stock in that, but does that make sense?

That makes sense, however, what about the "their wincon is to destroy the other scum factions"? I'd imagine that SK should just say "Be the last alive and eleminate everyone else", and Mafia being "eleminate everyone else and have at least 1 mafia alive", so this assumption is basically hypothetical. It could even just be "Eleminate the threat of X faction".

And you wanted to say...? (What exactly?)

TSO for now being much of a presence AND slapping a naked vote onto the Ozgin Wagon (Needs pressure, really)

Yeah, I'd like to add some points on that.
He votes naked in #476 but his reason is back in #311 agreeing with someone, a whole day in lag before the actual note which is plain naked.
I see it as a forced vote, and why didn't he just vote back in #311?

Why on Gods' Green Earth need we scumread TSO? He's done hardly anything.
This whole TSO-thing seems to be so fabricated as an average Kim Kardashian wherever in the Space/Time Continuum.

Dragon Wagon

RadiantCowbells, House, Silverwolf, Bookitty, Cheetory6, Taly, Varsoon

Ozgin Wagon

Titus, Kitz, T S O, Egg, Aneninen

And if we read the initials together, we get RHSBCTV and TKTEA.

[Aneninen]

Why on Gods' Green Earth need we scumread TSO? He's done hardly anything.

I guess you didn't actually read it.

Read what? TSO?

What don't you like about the Ozgin read? If you agree that Dragon is scummy, then why is it a problem?

I don't rule out the possibility that both of them are scum.

I'm in a neighborhood called Central Windgale with dragonspawn (and some others), and I want him dead so I can participate in it, please.
kthx.

Oh, this changes things. This makes sense now. House, vote someone else in the neighborhood if you have to do someone from the neighborhood. Dragon is not scum.

I don't think being in a Neighbourhood is an alignment tell.
I can't see why it would change anything.

This is what I figured.
I'm also in a neighborhood and had assumed there were likely other hoods.
I also have the theory that if there's multiple hoods then there's likely at least one rep from a scumteam in each.
I was unsure if Dragon was being awkward about having a neighborhood or a masonry, but it seemed more like a neighborhood (especially since he used the word neighborhood earlier).

My answer is the same. Being in a Neighbourhood is not an alignment tell.
The rest is speculation. Either there are scums in both (all?) Neighbourhoods, either there aren't. Either there's a Masonry, either there's not. Need we talk about this anyway?

________

I've gotta go now. I'll catch-up from Page29. I looked into those pages, I saw that many things had happened. But I don't know how they'd affect my reads. I need to read those pages more carefully.
House's claim would make no sense if he were scum. I know this.

[Aneninen]

Going on.

Oh screw it.
I'm a JoAT
1x Gunsmith
1x Tracker
1x Bodyguard
And I want dragonspawn killified so I can work with my neighbors on where to use my abilities.

Is this claim useful if House's scum? Not really, because it's a Multiball. Basically he's just exposed himself for possible Nightkills.
Is this claim useful if House's town? I certainly wouldn't have claimed if I were in his shoes, but I can see some town motivation(s) for it.
I don't understand what the claim (or being in the same Neighbourhood) has to do with his constant will to lynch Dragon, though.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't give him a free pass because of the claim for the whole game, but he may have one now.

Anen, TSO is the only one of your town reads I understand. How is posting style alignment indicitive? Why is Varsoon town if you don't like his Ozgin stance? Why is genuine scumhunting a town tell in a game with multiple teams?

Wow! Interaction!
As for posting style. On early-Day1 I consider examining that useful. As far as I've noticed (in other games), in the beginning players may end up being "generally townread" or "generally scumread" for very, very minor things. The

way

how players post and the way how they

react

when being interrogated or wagoned, that is much more useful. Therefore, the early posting style is a thing which matters a lot, because players are less conscious about it than the content produced. (!)
As for Varsoon. I was scum with him before and he lurked hard. Now, there's not a single sign of lurking. However, the turn on Ozgin is a thing I don't understand. Also, his recent posts are more like about the Setup and about speculations, so my townread is fading.
As for scumhunting. You may be right here. I should have phrased it better, because it's something else too. Varsoon, Titus and Taly have "exposed" themselves very much. Players posting

that

much may earn a lot of reads on themselves (townreads, yes, but they may earn scumreads too!). I don't think scums would do that

so

early.

By the way, Egg has just moved among my townreads with this post. I don't think scum-Egg would interrogate a player like me. I'll post more about this if needed.

He'll flip town. Please, Varsoon, you are smart enough to see why.

This made me think. Either Boonie is fooling us or DragonSpawn is town.

@House - JoAT typically has 4 abilities that are 1 shot. Did you start with a fourth ability? Don't answer if you don't wanna, but it's strange to me to see only 3.

Bad logic.
There is NO typical JOAT. Any PR having more than one active Action could be a JOAT. Eg. I have seen a JOAT with 2 abilities. JK9 Setup may include a Mafia JOAT with 3 abilities.

You know, I think you've actually got me pegged. I'm kinda hard-headed, and I get really abrasive and defensive. I lose control fairly easily when people come after me with (what I feel are) very stupid reasons for a lynch, and then the way I act makes other people (Like Anen) think I'm scum, not for the (stupid) case but for my reaction to it. I don't honestly usually engage in a dialogue, though. I only did it with you because I felt like I had to prove something to you (because you were so fucking cocky). I kinda wish I could take that post back, it was kinda stupid (the citizen one). I honestly Townread Titus for a long time, and think she's just misguided. I don't think her reasoning holds any water, and it's not worrying me anymore. I've calmed down a little now, and just wanna focus on the game and cut the stupid shit. I'm gonna stop making dumb posts (or try), and try to stop insulting/offending people. I should just do what I did in 180 and chill out with some "medical aid," it seems to help a lot.

I don't know what to think. More flailing, I would say.
But okay, let's ask a question. What happened in #180?

VOTE: Bookitty
Here's a vote switch to piss off town.

Whut?

Prolapsed, I honestly can't believe that for someone who has said so little, THAT is what you are choosing to focus on.

DAT.

In other news, I AM in a neighbourhood with Dragonspawn and House. I felt (and others can express what they thought) that he was using the neighbourhood as a venue for testing the waters and trying out things before pushing his suspicions in the main thread.

So.
House, did you vote her because of being in the same Neighbourhood? What if the fourth player is scum there? (Although I doubt there's a correlation between Neighbourhoods and alignment.)

This is D1. Nobody has any idea what roles there are. Fake-claiming JoAT, regardless of the abilities claimed, would be idiotic for scum to do because it would be a simple matter for the real JoAT to counterclaim. Regardless of which one is lynched first, it results in outed scum.

Bad logic. There might be more than one JOAT in a large game. I don't want to talk about this but here's a hint: read the first post!

So, for everyone: if you're a JOAT, DO NOT CLAIM!

Read what? TSO?

That you didn't read what I actually wrote, and you dodged it again.

He votes naked in #476 but his reason is back in #311 agreeing with someone, a whole day in lag before the actual note which is plain naked.
I see it as a forced vote, and why didn't he just vote back in #311?

Is that all? If so, I didn't dodge it, I simply missed it.
Yet again, this is not the scum-TSO I saw before. It's more like the bored town-TSO I know.

#Prolapse :
Lack of constructive posts, posts little, read list without basis.
Mentions that "Everyone else is not memoriable", odd. What makes one memoriable and what makes one not?
Reading the ISO, I'm more and more scumleaning on Prolapse.

Thanks for pointing this out. He's been under my radar but now I've checked his ISO and found... the same thing.

[Aneninen]

Why? All I see is scum with his buddies leaving avenues open to bus if it catches on. I am just not 100 which ones as town do that too in response to legit scum wagon really early.

What are you trying to say that I'm scum with Ozgin?
Lol.
I'm insulted if you seriously think I would waffle like this on my scummate if I were scum this game.
I also feel like you being this absolute about reads comes across as being pretty bullshit, just saying.

Huh?

Sorry, Ozgin means the guy who slipped. Ozgin was not in that game.

Something you might think about. Being caught because of something irrelevant and silly is a thing which many scums hate the most. Ignore the may-or-may-not-have-been-a-slip thing for a split second. What do you think about Ozgin's

reactions

?

VOTE: Ozgin
I can't vote Bookitty. I just.. can't.

Good.

Where is the pro-town motivation in making this post? If I don't, I'm clearly attempting to draw the NK. You're not a simpleton, you know that.
Lynch this shit with fire, people.
VOTE: dragonspawn

Bad.

---

Wake-y, can we have a Vote Count?

[Aneninen]

Also, if I die tonight, look at Aneninen. I modded a game where he was scum, and I'm pretty familiar with him in general. I'm not necessarily scum reading him, but don't let him cruise.

What a nice piece of WIFOM!

@Boon: I'm not going to put false confidence in your Dragons' read. I do agree, though, we should lynch out of that neighborhood. I'm doubting House since his claim, but I'm not seeing Bookitty scum here. Again; I'm most confident in Dragonspawn as scum. You just repeatedly saying 'Do not lynch Dragonspawn!' comes off more as a chainsaw defense between scum-buddies than any masonry.

It's not only Neighbourhood-speculation, which I still don't like. Also: why that Neighbourhood?
What Chainsaw, anyway?

And before I pull my guts out in speculation;
This setup does include two non-normal roles.

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

[Aneninen]

Meanwhile... Some kind of fun-art.
Here comes a Malkavian-style readlist. (Do not take it seriously, nor offensive, please!)

Spoiler:

1.

FA_Q2

– He must be a distant relative of R2–D2. He speaks just as much, as for using a widely-known language. But hey, he's picked one piece of cherry so far. Wow la...
2.

Boonskiies

– Is it a bird? Is it an airplane? Noooo, it's Booooonskiiiiieees! Once again,

the Day

Dragonspawn is saved, thanks to the Powerpuff Girls!
3.

Laladucks

– The programme must be over and the TV set in her belly seems to be off. It would be a pity if Samara came out of Tinky-Winky, wouldn't it? Maybe she's swimming with the flow but what if there's no flow at all?
4.

Varsoon

– Something is fishy here and it's not the flavour of the Mod. This wall is real, this one is illusion, this is not a wall, this must be a hallway. Oh no, someone scummy is coming over there! (trschrck!) Dammit, this's been a mirror...
5.

TSO

– He's so excited about this game as an American teenage-girl having downloaded the next Avenger movie... after she turned off the monitor. Assuming that the movie itself is in Dutch. With Italian subtitles. But who cares about subtitles?
6.

Aneninen

– Do you know the difference between a pigeon and a parrot? Neither does he. He's useful as a Jack-in-the-box and funny as a larch.
7.

RadiantCowbells

– Can you remember that cute little metallic sound featuring the song People are People from Depeche Mode? Play it 2 octaves lower and you'll get something that's very, very close to her. Use it well but sparingly and it'll make your track.
8.

House

– An overground Dryder. He swapped Jack-of-all-trades to Jack-of-no-trades. Maybe he's getting somewhere by driving away all the limpets.
9.

Kitz

– Actually Rebecca was cute in Urban Legends. Almost fell in love with her. But I'd never lay on the bed so that she could try to mark me with her scalpel. See?
10.

Prolapsed Brain

– Have you ever lost the remote control of your TV? If so, you must know the feeling when you're actually taking a look at a programme whether you like it more than you did a couple of minutes before. But no, you don't.
11.

Egg

– Oh an egg comes out of a chicken. Oh a chicken comes out of an egg. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like. Hooooooooome?
12.

Ozgin

– Once I saw a scarecrow with a spinning head, and it sounded like "eeeeoeeeoeerrrrreoooohhhh". Did it kept away the crows? Not really.
13.

Taly

– Who remembers the scene when people were running on a meadow and raptors were chasing them? Is he one of those people? Or is he a raptor? I don't know. Perhaps he's the grass.
14.

Aeronaut

– Is he still here? After all, noone has ever said Beetlejuice.
15.

Bookitty

– Do you know where the catfish is? Not until you dive. Are you scared of diving? Then you're afraid of the catfish.
16.

Silverwolf

– Sniff, sniff. Good. Keep following the trail and let's hope there's no broken light bulb deep under the theatre.
17.

Skybird

– She's far from us, just like an albatross. And pointless, just like an albatross. Unless she catches something... evil under the Sun.
18.

Titus

– The sound of a violin can break the crystals. Everyone knows that. The pitch is not enough, though. The music must stop on a very, very high note... for a certain amount of time.
19.

Cheetory

– Slippery as an electric eel but seems to be unplugged. I can't get where he is from but need I get that at all?
20.

Drixx

– What to say then? Either being away for being here or being here for being away, anyway, there's no way to stay in this way.
21.

DragonSpawn

– We let him grow up. We let him lay an egg. We let him look after his egg. And in the end the egg cracks. We should hope nothing venomous would come out of it.

[Aneninen]

I'm probably using that wrong,
But what I mean is that they're adamantly defending each other and going after the same targets for reasons that aren't fully fleshed out in-thread.

Maybe there are reasons for that phenomenon. Maybe we shouldn't care about that right now. I seriously doubt that any of those two would ever make it to LyLo if they were scums.

I'd rather hunt from a pool of 3 players than 20, y'know.
If there's scum in the House-bookitty-dragonspawn neighborhood, then we should try to figure that out, right?

That's still not good.
Nothing on Gods' Green Earth confirms nor suggests that there's at least one scum in each Neighbourhood. You're narrowing the lynch pool because of a silly reason. What if there's no scum there? By following your idea we mislynch THREE TIMES!
Post-edit: so, there are five players in that Neighbourhood. (And as far as I remember, House never said there were three players.) Your idea makes even less sense.

On the other hand, those who are in any Neighbourhood might have an additional scumhunting tool in their hands but I don't think it's me who should explain it.
Maybe those who have any investigative PR could throw a couple of Night Actions in the Neighbourhoods so as to confirm them and turn them into kinds of Masonries.

By the way, Egg has just moved among my townreads with this post. I don't think scum-Egg would interrogate a player like me. I'll post more about this if needed.

I'd like you to elaborate on this please. I would like to understand your thought process better on your reads.

It would be much more beneficial for a scum to (1) push an existing wagon with our without providing any reasons, (2) make as few interactions as they can, maybe even lurking, (3) insta-attack a player without talking to him/her but making sure that the wagon never gets close to lynch or (4) as a special case of (3), Chainsaw someone.
Instead of these, what did Egg do? He asked questions from quite a few players, including me, who's neither too significant now, nor amongst the "common scumreads". (As far as I remember, I'm generally in the null-town zone.) Would it make sense from a scum-Egg? Sure, he may get some town credit for it but a gameplay like this doesn't move the game into a scum-favoured direction (framing players or going for mislynches/other scumfaction lynches). That's not much. Would it make sense from a town-Egg? Absolutely; he seems to be into sorting out as many players as he can.

[Aneninen]

Yeah, just like in Masquerade, Boonie! ^_^

[Aneninen]

@Boon - Can you (or anyone who wants to field this question) tell me what the hell a 5-4-3 setup is?

There was another game with three Neighbourhoods, one consisted of 5 players, the other one of 4 and the third one of 3. Although there was no SK.

(Also, we shouldn't trust House's JOAT claim because he only claimed 3 abilities. JOATs have 4.)

Don't make me post another pigeon!
This is the game we're talking about: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=59293
Check out TierShift's Role. JOAT with TWO abilities! Not four!

________

Yeah, Boonie, I kept reading that game every now and then. Although the Werewolf team made me STFU at Night1 while the Mafia team wanted to lynch me. ^_^ By the way, Egg was there too. We died at the same Night.

[Aneninen]

@Varsoon - I'll be waitin, and JoAT doesn't always have to have 4, it can be more or less, but I've teased the idea that House has a fourth ability that he isn't telling us (a good reason to FoS dragon or a protective thing like commuter).

Wasn't it you who said that a JOAT should have 4 abilities before?

Eh, screw it.
My neighborhood is Cheetory, Drixx, TSO, and me.

And you don't think we should lynch someone there because...?

Can someone put who is in which hood down for me real quick? Wake didn't give me a hood, now I feel lonely.

So do I. Need a pigeon?

Alright I've had enough.

Day shot at Dragonspawn

Need I believe this?

Anyone that looks into the House/Bookitty/Silverwolf on the wagon will be...well...
Oh, you'll be my best friend...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHFy3YWpRx8

click these links please. and listen to each for like 8 seconds.

Yesterday's story, most of us got the point way before and those who're not are either not reading or ignoring facts intentionally.
Put it in this way: if both of them were scum, WOULD it be possible for them to get close to LyLo at all?

Listen, just trust me.
Boon and Dragon are scum.

Oh, Cowbells. You sound B-flat. Can't you sound B-sharp?

Why do I even play mafia.

Drinking game. Anytime someone does something stupid. Drink.

We'd end up having a Detox Party.

...
Sorry if I kinda outed you here as PR, if you're not scum. :/
While we're getting into that realm, I actually have a way of confirming if Ozgin is actually a Citizen should we both survive overnight. :3

I'm unsure whether you're right about Ozgin, but I'm not interested in your lynch for a while.
Are you saying that you'll try to confirm Ozgin later. Okay, hammer the nails, set the stone, do whatever you wish.
UNVOTE:

[Aneninen]

Anen, ok. I think we define posting style differently, but I understand what you are saying about it.¹ Also pretty sure I remember Varsoon lurking as town twice. This feels like a new Varsoon regardless of his alignment.² I think I see what you mean about the more active scumhunters exposing themselves too. They open themselves up to being polarizing figures who end up lynched or NK'd so it isn't a safe play. Is that basically where you are going with that?³ If so, take Titus. Can you picture her playing any other way?⁴ Why don't you think I'd question you as scum? That comment felt weird to me.⁵

(1) Good.
(2) Than you know more about him than I do. I was scum with him in Boonie's game and that's all, as for my direct meta.
(3) Exactly.
(4) Can you give me some hints what I should pay attention to?
(5) See below!

It would be much more beneficial for a scum to (1) push an existing wagon with our without providing any reasons, (2) make as few interactions as they can, maybe even lurking, (3) insta-attack a player without talking to him/her but making sure that the wagon never gets close to lynch or (4) as a special case of (3), Chainsaw someone.Instead of these, what did Egg do? He asked questions from quite a few players, including me, who's neither too significant now, nor amongst the "common scumreads". (As far as I remember, I'm generally in the null-town zone.) Would it make sense from a scum-Egg? Sure, he may get some town credit for it but a gameplay like this doesn't move the game into a scum-favoured direction (framing players or going for mislynches/other scumfaction lynches). That's not much. Would it make sense from a town-Egg? Absolutely; he seems to be into sorting out as many players as he can

Well. Your conclusion is right but this is still flawed logic. Your #1 ignores the fact that I am voting Ozgin. #2 and 4 ignore the fact that I don't lurk strategically or chainsaw. And 3 is also something I don't do. I don't think you've ever seen my scum game if I'm remembering correctly, so these wrong meta assumptions are weird to me.

Yes, yes, I see your points.
However, it's only Day1. We have no flips, no Nightkills, no useful VCA, no associative tells, no nothing. I use what I can and in this case, I use my general personal experience.
Also, you might have noticed in other games that I'm reading the games in a different way, sometimes using my own tells, etc. Is it a better or worse strategy than others's ones? Perhaps neither of them. But still, it's something scums can't adept to easily. The whole Mafia is evolving all the time. Eg. long ago scums were in late positions on a mislynch wagon then they started jumping on them earlier. Then being absent. What's going on now? I don't know, but I don't think being at a late position is a real tell anymore so if someone does so as scum, they may get away with it. It's like an enormous Rock-Paper-Scissors game. But would scums ever change their gameplay because of a Malkavian Idiot reading everything in a different way? I don't think so. (Like what? A fictional post in a scum QT:

"Watch out, Aneninen is there, he'll MissMarple-read you so act exactly in the way like Druuge did in Pick your Chocolate Power!"

Lol, that would never ever happen.)

The reasons for townreading you are enough for me right now. But, of course, they're very far from enough for eg. Day3.

No, I wouldn't. But I felt Aneninen was one of the few people to pick up on the fact Dragon and I are confirmed town best friends. If I had died in the night, Aneninen would be the one to blame. I actually like that there are doubters. means I might not get night killed.

Bad logic.
"If I die Tonight, XXXX is scum" is a well-known WIFOM. I heard it for the first time in a RL game about 20 years ago.

Also, take a look at the recent events. Scums might have

too many

useful Nightkill possibilities now... which creates another WIFOM, but it's a WIFOM for THEM!
– they may kill House because of claiming JOAT.
– they may kill Varsoon because of claiming unknown PR.
– they may kill Dragon or you, because you're so good friends.
– they may kill someone from a Neighbourhood to get rid of a dangerous player (I have no info about this since I'm not there but it may happen).
– they may hunt each other.
– and, most importantly, they can't synchronize their shots at all.

The problem with scumhunting in my neighborhood right now is that I'm really certain of my Cheetory townread and while I doubt TSO and Drixx, they literally are not here to receive the pressure of a wagon.

Okay.

But now that it's out I'm pretty sure wolf and egg are town because they recognized the crumbs and didn't out us.

Bad logic. Scums sometimes pay attention to crumbs and hints more carefully than towns, but they don't essentially out them – so as to earn some town credit later. Ask Boonie about the game he modded, lol!
I don't think Silverwolf or Egg are scums, but not because of this.

I have to resist the urge to lynch Kitz because... I always want to lynch Kitz.
Egg is an asset when he's town, so I don't want to paranoia lynch there.

Have you read what Kitz pointed out about Prolapsed? if so, what do you think about it? (In this Setup that doesn't clear Kitzy but it's still useful.) You're right about Egg, but I don't think anyone's wanted to lynch him Today.

This leaves Bookitty. ^ Bookitty is today's lynch.

Why?

[Aneninen]

As a start, Laladucks, I've chosen six random names for you.

Egg
Varsoon
TSO
Bookitty
Prolapsed Brain
DragonSpawn

That's about the third of the playerlist, excluding you. What's your reads on them?
Oh, and what color is your Role PM?

[Aneninen]

Oh, and what color is your Role PM?

Oh, I forgot this bit.
The colour of my role in my role pm is like a mid-light green, not the usual darkish green I don't think. Tells me I should eliminate threats to the town as well, so I guess I should read what's been going on (have been procrastinating a little)

Hey, it's the same colour as the sample role pm in the OP. There you go.

Wait, what?
Mid-light green? Darkish green? Same as the Sample PM?
There was no Mid-light green in my role PM at all! Its text is f-cking black!

VOTE: Lalaladucks

Also, your reads are not only vague but also strange. Not a single reason for Egg, nor Bookitty, whom you're scumreading. TSO and Varsoon are fence-sitty reads (and there are no clear reads on those nowadays), the slight scumlean on Prolapsed might even suggest a possible partnership with him (althoug I know that I'm over-speculating this now).

I like that you like my posts, I like even more that you like E.B.O.N.Y. (frankly, I've put an INSANE amount of effort in that game), but posting these is a sign of appeasing/buddying/I-don'tknow-what-I-need-to-call-it. Sorry to say, but right now this is another thing why I like the idea that you're scum.

________

I don't like PB, RC, kitz. I'm ok with lynching one of these three.

RC?

I'm good with a Prolapsed vote right now.
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

That's a good vote. I'm willing to join that wagon too but I want to see your opinion about Lala's answer I quoted above. Refute me if it wasn't a slip.

[Aneninen]

Apart from the border, which is green, but very far from mid-light, nothing, zero, zilch.

I know that you meant RadiantCowbells. Have you ever played with her before?

[Aneninen]

Anen, look at the sample role pm. Are you saying the wording on your pm where the sample pm says Citizen is a different color?

No.
Why do you think Lala posted about light green then?

[Aneninen]

Isn't this kind of scumhunting supposed to be frowned upon by site meta?

I don't think so. After all we're not quoting anything. If paraphrasing a Role PM is allowed, describing the color of it is allowed too. After all, I might have a role PM like

You're a Pigeon

and I can lie anything about it. (Well, lol it actually happened before... my role was Pigeon and I claimed VT.)

@Wake?

I don't think it's the smoking gun you are making it out to be and I don't like scumhunting that way tbh. As far as other points on her, her posting seems pretty awkward and all over the place and very, very nervous. Her reads are off too. But I'd like to see more from her and at least she's giving reads. What has Prolapsed done this game? Did you look at his ISO?

Still, there is no mid-light green text in my Role PM at all! Why do you think Lala said that?

However, there's something more about her and it has nothing to do with colors. At VC1.05 there was a 6-player wagon on Lala (Bookitty, dragonspawn, Silverwolf, Ozgin, Egg, Varsoon) and it got reduced to 0 by VC1.07. Varsoon went to the Ozgin wagon, Bookitty did the same later (the others were still on the Lala-wagon at VC1.06), Silverwolf jumped to the Dragon-wagon (Bookitty did so a bit later), Egg joined the Ozgin-wagon, Ozgin started (?) the Varsoon-wagon, DragonSpawn ended up voting for TSO next.
Someone posted before that the whole Lala-wagon turned into a Dragonspawn-wagon. This is not entirely true, as we can see.
It may be useful only later, but if Lala flips scum, someone must have derailed her wagon.

Also, as I said, I'd eagerly join the Prolapsed-wagon. I checked his ISO before and it looks terrible indeed. (I posted about this topic in an earlier post or two, I think.)

[Aneninen]

Quoting PM equals death.
Paraphrasing it is fine.

So, is it true for colors as well?
(By the way you needn't check all the posts; we haven't quoted anything.)

[Aneninen]

The whole point in sample PMs is supposed to be to show you what a town PM looks like so scum can't be caught that way. Still, Anen not having green feels weird. But at the same time, if he was scum, I assume he'd lie and say it's the same as the sample PM. Not quite sure what to think. I mean, mine looks like the sample as far as the green but maybe Wake forgot to color Anen's. I'm not gonna consider it telling because I can't see Anen slipping up on that, especially when he's the one who brought it up and there's a sample PM.

Okay, now I'm f-cking not getting this.
Role PM. Dark green border with a label. In the border some black text. No colors inside. The sample PM has the very same structure and my text may or may not be the same.
Again: why did Lala say that her PM had some light-green? Does anyone have anything colourful in the text itself?

And I don't understand why are we talking about

my

role PM.

________

Bookitty: Ozgin's life is now in Varsoon's hands. Read the thread.

@Aneninen - It isn't WIFOM. There's absolutely no chance of me dying toNight.

Then I must have misread something.

________

Post-edit:

The way I read her post was the light green was the role title. Describing colors is very subjective and dependent on the person. So I take the whole "light green" "dark green" "some other green" issues with a grain of salt. How did you read lala's post?

For me, light green

is something like this

. Also, why did he say in the very next post that it was the same as the sample PM?
In general, why are you townreading Lala?

[Aneninen]

I have very little time now so I'm pointing out only a couple of things.

FA_Q2 arrived, hooray! So far I can see nothing blatantly scummy but we definitely need more content.

We're not lynching out of House, Dragonspawn, Boonskies, or Ozgin today.
Can we please focus on other wagons for now?
I'd rather not have a 200 page D1.

We can consider this a short summary of many of the events. We can add Varsoon to the list too.
I don't think all of those names are obv-town; I only think they'd be very bad lynches.

As for Lala,

Oh, and what color is your Role PM?

Oh, I forgot this bit.
The colour of my role in my role pm is like a mid-light green, not the usual darkish green I don't think. Tells me I should eliminate threats to the town as well, so I guess I should read what's been going on (have been procrastinating a little)

Hey, it's the same colour as the sample role pm in the OP. There you go.

Wait, what?
Mid-light green? Darkish green? Same as the Sample PM?
There was no Mid-light green in my role PM at all! Its text is f-cking black!

Oh, the role at the top left doesn't have a colour? Mine did. The text is black.
But this is stupid to talk about cause there's the sample PM in the OP anyway and everyone knows what the town PM looks like. So what was your intention when you asked me what colour my role pm is?

VOTE: Lalaladucks

Also, your reads are not only vague but also strange. Not a single reason for Egg, nor Bookitty, whom you're scumreading. TSO and Varsoon are fence-sitty reads (and there are no clear reads on those nowadays), the slight scumlean on Prolapsed might even suggest a possible partnership with him (althoug I know that I'm over-speculating this now).

I like that you like my posts, I like even more that you like E.B.O.N.Y. (frankly, I've put an INSANE amount of effort in that game), but posting these is a sign of appeasing/buddying/I-don'tknow-what-I-need-to-call-it. Sorry to say, but right now this is another thing why I like the idea that you're scum.

You make fair points.
I'm not trying to buddy you though. This is just how I am.

Apart from the border, which is green, but very far from mid-light, nothing, zero, zilch.

yo, the border isn't green mate.
I take it you didn't get a town role pm then.
The word of the role in the top left bit is like a mid-light-ish green colour.

For me, light green

is something like this

.

No no no no no.
That's like fluorescent green. Not fluoro green. Like avocado colour I guess I'd say is what I mean by light green.

The inside of the avocado okay. Not the outside.

(1) I think the point of my question was pretty obvious. To check whether you got a town-PM.

(2) The whole story about the colors doesn't add up. You say everyone knows what a town-PM look like, so my question was pointless. Yet you say that the border isn't green and there's avocado in it. None of these are true. Not only for my PM but also for the sample PM.

(3) But okay,

let's ignore the whole color topic

. You say that I have fair points – basically, you're making excuses for your posts. Then you say that I didn't have a town Role PM.

If you REALLY thought so, you should have voted for me, instead of finding excuses all the time. You're simply making up things.

________

I'll post more later.

[Aneninen]

(3) But okay,

let's ignore the whole color topic

. You say that I have fair points – basically, you're making excuses for your posts. Then you say that I didn't have a town Role PM.

If you REALLY thought so, you should have voted for me, instead of finding excuses all the time. You're simply making up things.

Meh. Don't feel like I wanna lynch you right now, but it made me suspicious of you. Also, no one else would want to lynch you so it'd be a pretty pointless vote.

You dodged my point.
If you think I didn't get a town-PM, you should think I'm scum. That's not a "being suspicious" thing, that's a "he's scum" thing.

@Anen, I am not voting anyone based on role PM stuff. Cool your jets k.

Okay, but. Not only consists my case of colors. But also, for example, the thing above.
And those were strange words from a player who's been scumreading someone becasue of a word in the role PM.

Top of Page 42. Silverwolf is trying too hard to defend Ozgin. Remember she was avoiding his wagon earlier. I'm going to take a hard look at Silverwolf if Ozgin flips scum.
Anyone voting Prolapsed for meta, have you also seen his town game?

Good point, the first one.
As for Prolapsed, no I haven't. What should I know about it?

Yeah, that's his spin. Yet that making him feel lonely in this game is absurdity. Lonely enough to claim citizen, hell no. I have never once seen someone go, gee I am not scum here, so I am lonely and claim VT. That's because it is retconned reasoning.

Actually claiming VT without reasons is never a good thing. (I don't know whether it's essentially scummy, I've seen VT-claiming VT's without good reasons before.) VT is actually the coolest thing you can have.

I am staying that Ozgin was trying to create a narrative and blundering badly as scum.
That 102 makes zero sense from town. His justification in 1116 strongly implies he knew about hoods. He is trying to use 180 as window dressing.

Where did he post it in 1116?
The being lonely is a thing I don't like at all. Why did he bring it up again, especially for you who's not in any Neighbourhood either?
Buuuuuuuuut, wait-oh, am I right? Did he just claim VT there?

The point was not that she does not have the time – I think that is an obvious fact due to her posting. She is, however, using that time in a VERY opportunistic manner. THAT is not something that I would think town would do or is good for town. She is coming up with scum reads, as far as I can tell, based entirely off the fact that a few others in the last few pages fingered them as scum. No reasoning, no comments as to why and not even stating it is a sheeping read. Notice that lala has entirely avoided explaining her scum reads as well. She is very focused on the color thing. Why? Not to defend herself – there is but one single player focused on that line of thought and it is not attracting more votes – but instead it is easy to do without creating associative tells or being inconsistent. Those reads and the avoidance of scum hunting are scum tells – not the fact that she has no time. The lack of time I was referring to is simply what corners her into revealing it while trying to look like she is town (and failing to do so).

Yeah, FA_Q2 sees the light!

Prolapsed, do you have day talk?

I do not, nor do I have night talk with anyone.

Pigeon poop.
It's in the Setup that scums have Daytalk. This answer makes zero sense.

Hmm. Prolapsed included night talk in his answer to me. Sounds like someone who doesn't realize the game has day talk. That's actually a town response.

It's easy to fake a response like that.

Don't blame you. His recent actions of defending Ozgin at all costs for no reason irk me. I had him marked in as my first candidate for Ozgin's partner.

This, and the previous posts about Varsoon/Ozgin.
Varsoon told that he would confirm Ozgin in either way. This, obviously, may or may not be true.
But I simply don't think they're partners. If they were, it would have been much better strategy for their scumteam to leave Ozgin alone, launch a Chainsaw or whatever.
In other words: if Varsoon is faking and telling that Ozgin's town... do you think they'll be still here at LyLo? It's Multiball. Even if we spare them, the other team/the SK can still Nightkill any of them. And if it happens, their whole story turns into pigeon poop after a scumflip from either of them.
(And before you ask: I don't like Ozgin at all. I simply think that he's not the best lynch Today.)

When there's trouble, you call DW. Welcome to the meat grinder, I'm going to run a jihad on all the scum here. Going to read the thread and report back.

Hi there!
Do you need a pigeon?

Sigh, Titus. Your push is bad, and it's not worthwhile fighting it anymore. I'm gonna work towards actual progress.
VOTE: ProlapsedBrain

Haven't caught up fully yet but I believe Ozgin is town. He feels very genuine guys, so I won't be participating in his lynch.
VOTE: Prolapsed
Probs scum.

And NOW I have problems with the Prolapsed wagon.

(Going on soon, stopped at after Page49.)

[Aneninen]

Sigh, Titus. Your push is bad, and it's not worthwhile fighting it anymore. I'm gonna work towards actual progress.
VOTE: ProlapsedBrain

My push is fine. Your ISO is full of contradictions, discredits and misrepresentations and you slipped. You are just pissed I caught you.
Oh lalala's wagon is dead, so you hitch onto Prolapsed. Not a surprise. There's not an original push in there.

>

Implying that I was on the lala wagon before I unvoted anyways

Yeah, you keep misrepping my votes. That'll get you far.

And that makes the things even worse. See one of my previous posts!

@Bookitty: Im not going to claim any more of my role until I get results.
I'll be able to clear Ozgin unless there's some block or something.

How about clearing someone else?

I slept for 24 hours. I might be depressed or something? I don't know, man.

General insomnia or certain chemicals might result the same too.

I'd rather avoid mislynching town if possible.
If it weren't for my soft, Ozgin would've already likely been lynched today.

Why is it superior for you to clear him instead of lynching him and clearing someone else?

I think Silver is scum based on what I think are the motivations behind her posts. I can't explain it well without going back and commenting on stuff but there's way too many posts and not enough time. Sorry, this reasoning sounds extemely sucky and I don't blame you if you don't get what I'm trying to say :/

Wow!
Hey, everyone! I've already seen the Yeti! I'd eagerly show the pictures of him I made but it would take too much time to search for them.

Top 3 Town

Boonskiies
dragonspawn
Egg

Top 3 Scum

SilverWolf
FA_Q2
Bookitty

Next 3 Town

House
Titus
Aneninen

Next 3 Scum

Taly
Kitz
Varsoon
Obviously I expect my town reads to be more accurate than the scumreads since there are twice as many town as scum.

Wait, what?
In 1110 you was suspicious of me and you just posted that I'm amonst your "Next 3 Town" reads?! How the f-ck was that possible?
BETWEEN THOSE TWO POSTS I WAS WRITING NOTHING AT ALL! YOU HAD ZERO REASON FOR CHANGING YOUR READS ON ME!

I'm REALLY sad that this lynch doesn't seem to happen.

By the way, the other reads... Boonie and DragonSpawn are Best Friends, therefore shall never get close to lynch at all, House outed a town-PR, Titus and Egg would never be wagoned. None of your scumreads were and are explained thoroughly, FA_Q2 is also an OMGUS, even if you said the opposite. The Taly-Kitz-Varsoon is a trio which is worth to shadow, many players have FoS-es on them.
1279 is crow poop. Including the spoiler. Exuses, appeases, things like those.

Lalaladuck's last post triggered my scumdar.

Good.

________

I'm really sad that Lalala is still not wagoned.

But, here's another question and sorry if I missed the answer for it during reading the last pages. Has Ozgin claimed VT or hard-hinted it?

[Aneninen]

Wait, what?
In 1110 you was suspicious of me and you just posted that I'm amonst your "Next 3 Town" reads?! How the f-ck was that possible?
BETWEEN THOSE TWO POSTS I WAS WRITING NOTHING AT ALL! YOU HAD ZERO REASON FOR CHANGING YOUR READS ON ME!

It happened because I reflected on what you said. Saying that your role PM had a green border made me think you're a

different kind of town

. But I can stop town reading you of course, that reason doesn't really make too much sense.
Aneninen, either you don't know how to read me or you're scum.

But I wasn't talking about color snow. I was talking about your read progression which had made no sense.
The last sentence makes zero sense in this Setup.

Happy Birthday angry pigeon poop person

Thanks a lot!
I'm not angry, by the way. I'm just scumreading you.

@Anen: Has to be Ozgin because of reasons that I'm sure are already really obvious.
Hint: It's the Citizen Claim.
Another Hint: He did claim VT/Citizen.

Call me dumb but I can't see a scenario in which your

only

usefulness is that you could confirm only Ozgin and noone else.
(Why did I ask about the VT-claim? Easy: I was misreading something earlier. I thought you had posted that Ozgin might have a town-PR. My fault.)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ozgin

But I'm still sad that there's no Lalala-wagon. Should there be, I'd join immediately.

________

House.
You don't have to talk about your abilities at all. Or at least, I'm buying it.
However, you may think about whether you need some protection or not. If so, I have an idea and I'll post it later. (Before anyone starts speculating: I simply hope that we've got something protective among the 14 townies.)

[Aneninen]

@Titus-Does it bother you at all that la la is voting Prolapsed and doesn't have him in her list of scum reads? Because if it doesn't, it should.

^^
That.

And if anyone says again that my case against Lalala consists of our discussion about PM colors only, they'll get a pigeon.

[Aneninen]

Good.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalaladucks

[Aneninen]

Anen, I don't know how Prolapsed plays as town. My point was more that it's hard to say this is his scum meta without knowing his town meta and I suspect that some people may be doing that. Also, given his play so far, do you think it's more likely he faked a response to my question or that he was too lazy to read the rules?

Which question did you mean? 1115? His answer may have been fake. But, I think he's simply trying to to get involved in the game.

Can we lynch Ozgin after you're done mislynching Lala for the scumteam? K. Thanks.

*scumteams

Your logic is wrong here, Titus.
Firstly, it was I who revived the Lalala-wagon and I'm okay with an Ozgin-lynch too. I'm willing to re-join it if the Lalala-lynch doesn't work.
Secondly, I seriously doubt that the different scum factions would want and would be able to compromise on any lynch. They're thread to each other too.
Thirdly, I don't understand why you think that Lalala's town. As I said before, my case is much more than talking about colors. And others are scumreading her too. (If it were only me, it'd be a vanity wagon, wouldn't it?) The fact that she's a counter to Ozgin is not true in my opinion: see the first two points!

No one actually knows 100%. Yet, scum don't want to lynch scum in general. So the minute a decent case gets made against someone scummy, scum run.

You may be right here: scums can join any wagon after a viable case has been posted. Especially because of it's a Multiball. In this case, those are to be examined who jumped on the Lalala-wagon without good reasons. And the same goes for the Ozgin-wagon.

I think scum would -want- to lynch scum to earn townpoints for it and then during night they'd want to direct double-kills on town PRs.

Bad logic. In a multiball noone earns town credit for being on a scumlynch-wagon. Also, what would be the point of a double-kill?

@SW, KPN is Kills Per Night. The higher the KPN generally speaking, the better it is for scum, particularly if scums aren't crosskilling each other. Given scums won't vote to lynch each other, I highly doubt they'll kill each other at night.

Given. That's the keyword.
We can't have any idea what the scum factions will do at Night. As a general thing, everything greatly depends on the PR they have – but we're definitely not talking about this right now.

I've played multiball as scum before. Sure, it might be bad to head a scumlynch because it draws attention, but it isn't bad to be on the wagon for a scumlynch.

Truth said. Generally speaking, it's much easier to avoid getting lyched than to avoid a Nightkill.

I am leaning toward Ozgin as scum, primarily due to sheeping Titus. She's batshit insane, yes, but a lot of the times she's

actually right.

I'll play the odds.
VOTE: Ozgin

See, Titus? That's what I was talking about in this post above. Regardless of Ozgin's alignment votes like this are very FoS in a Multiball.

And I'm one of the better scumplayers on this site. I know my game theory. I may not be the most persuasive, and I may get frustrated when people play suboptimally, but I know the theory. I'll share with you my last multiball QT which should share this point quite well. Read post 49. Prior QT
The ideal is if the other scum teams kill each other off, that's more days where they have to survive to be lynched.
Titus's Rule 2: Count the bodies. How far is each side from its wincon?

Note: this is an interesting topic to talk about but it would be seriously OFF now.

More than half of the game's deaths will happen at night. If you can eliminate all opposing NKs as scum, all you have to do is survive the lynches. You don't even have to worry about the night anymore at that point.

^^
That.

[Aneninen]

Why are you so sure that she's not scum?
Also, I don't think she's newb. I've just checked it and she was (and is) in quite a couple of games before.

[Aneninen]

Will we sort her out later?

[Aneninen]

Okay, House. But this doesn't mean that my scumread on Lalala has just gone.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ozgin

[Aneninen]

And again, I don't really give a damn what you think of me.
My claim pretty much townfirms me. I'd have been dead in the water making it as scum. Wake uses JoAT a good bit, and faking that claim would have put a great big bulls-eye on my head when the real one countered me.
That you're trying to paint me as scum when it's pretty obvious I'm town via mechanics alone is

funny

scummy.

Actually,

There may be duplicate roles.

In spite of this, I don't think you're scum. If you were, you'd play to a terrible strategy because any of the other scum factions could kill you. Also, it would be awkward sooner or later if you were unable to provide us your Night Action results.

[Aneninen]

@Anen: Unless he is bulletproof or Acetic or whatever. Which is very likely in a 14-3-3-1.
Faking night results is easier than you'd think.

Even if Bulletproof, do you think he'd make it to LyLo after his claim?

[Aneninen]

That vote is bad. Even compared to Aneninen-standards.
Get back to Ozgin.

[Aneninen]

Welcome to the House of Fun. ^_^

[Aneninen]

[Aneninen]

Wow, Titus!
I know I can't prove it but it was a True Ninja!

[Aneninen]

Why did you target Kitz?

[Aneninen]

Generally speaking...

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

[Aneninen]

And you call my cases pigeon poop...

[Aneninen]

OFF.

What do we know?

– there's a Neighbourhood which consists of Varsoon, Cheetory, Drixx and TSO.
– there's another Neighbourhood which consists of House, DragonSpawn, Bookitty, ? who was the other two here?
– DragonSpawn and Boonskiies are Best Friends, Boonskiies is not in a Neighbourhood. (Nor Titus.)
– House claimed JOAT
– Varsoon claimed ??? but something that could check (could have checked) Ozgin.

Anything else I've missed?

[Aneninen]

Another OFF.

Who protected whom in the thread?
– Boonskiies and Dragonspawn protected each other (obvious)
– Varsoon protected Ozgin
– House protected Lalaladucks
– ? Skybird protected Lalaladucks (? don't remember)

Can we add things to this list?

[Aneninen]

OFF.

What do we know?

– there's a Neighbourhood which consists of Varsoon, Cheetory, Drixx and TSO.
– there's another Neighbourhood which consists of House, DragonSpawn, Bookitty, Kitz and Egg.
– DragonSpawn and Boonskiies are Best Friends, Boonskiies is not in a Neighbourhood. (Nor Titus.)
– House claimed JOAT
– Varsoon claimed ??? but something that could check (could have checked) Ozgin.

Anything else I've missed?

[Aneninen]

*cough*
You say I protected Ozgin but I'm pretty much one of the primary people who drove the lynch both early and late. I think.

Noted.

[Aneninen]

And we shouldn't forget about Lalala.

[Aneninen]

And someone else should scumslip now.

Let's make it short. The post below this will be a scumslip, regardless of its content.

\/

[Aneninen]

^^
Scum found.

[Aneninen]

Hey, I've got an idea!
Who needs Nights at all?
Let's start voting again and we'll achieve another lynch Today!

[Aneninen]

Okay, let's make it short.
Lynch everyone on Day1 except for Boonskiies and Dragonspawn!

Game won.

[Aneninen]

Do you know why I'm trolling?

We should see the flip and the results of a couple of Night Actions first, shouldn't we?

[Aneninen]

Don't you need a pigeon for that group too? ^_^

[Aneninen]

By the way, where's Ozgin?

However, is there a record for the Longest Twilight? And for the Most Pointless one?

[Aneninen]

But we've been Twilighting for 6 pages or so... with little-to-none relevant content.

[Aneninen]

Before reading you, here are two thoughts.
(1) Varsoon flipped Mafia-JOAT. This means, the other Mafia team may have a JOAT too. In general, we should take all claims, especially JOATs with a grain of salt.
(2) Varsoon posted about House that he might be Ascetic. (I'll search for the reference if needed.) That's not an "obvious assumption". Unless someone in his Hood claimed Ascetic-whatever, which I doubt, someone at Red Mafia must have an Ascetic modifier. (Therefore, someone at the other Mafia team too?)

________

WHAT'S GUCCI EVERYONE!!!! I'M ALIVE!!! How do you like that, Taly?!?
VOTE: Taly

Only one kill? Not bad town.
VOTE: wolf

Any explanation for these votes?

Coolbeans
Only one kill? Successful protect or something?
How many scum do you think were on Ozgin's wagon
Anen, I'm still town if you're wondering

And that last sentence made me paranoid. I hadn't posted anything Today before that!!! Lalala knows nothing about me. I may be

Citizen

Vanilla (lol), Cop, Gunsmith, Jailkeeper, Whatever with any result on her. I may be even a member of any Mafia team or SK. (I'm not but noone could be sure about it now, unless investigating me.) But, she auto-assumes that my only concern is her alignment.

i) Varsoon says that he wants to fakeclaim masons with me. I said no because that's dumb.
ii) Said that he wasn't liking Ozgin so I told him to engage him with like a question or a vote or something.
iii) Said he wanted to bring focus. Then buddying galore on me q.q
iv) Said that he thought lala and Ozgin were on opposite scumteams.
v) Said he didn't like House's entry or anything surrounding him.
vi) Asking about how we felt about Ozginwagon. Said that TSO's naked jump on it was bad.
vii) Talking about Dragon being in a neighborhood.
viii) I talked to him a bit about TSO and he changed his read to be more null there. I don't think TSO is sided with Varsoon atm.
ix) Said he wanted to focus on Titus later on during the cycle or something?
x) Says that Titus has a good chance of being scum, but said there's a low chance of actually getting a wagon going there.
xi) Saying that he's suspicious of House. I think this suspicion also comes across as being genuine, so lazily going to lean House and Varsoon aren't scum together.
xii) Asked one of us to kill Titus. I said I would as long as he wouldn't suspect anyone in our PT of being scum.

(i) Dumb idea.
(ii) Why did you suggest him doing so?
(iii) Makes no sense.
(iv) I think Lala and Varsoon may be in opposite scumteams. ^_^
(v) House might be in the opposite scumteam (because of being a JOAT, see above!), but even so, he might have a useful result Today. By the way, for me it was obvious that Varsoon was JOAT too. I was wondering whether scums might have a JOAT but that's answered now.
(vi) It seems that he wanted to push his Neighbourhood for his own interests.
(vii) Irrelevant.
(viii) Neither do I.
(ix)/(x) Why Titus? We can't rule out that but is she our biggest concern now?
(xi) No doubt. He was Mafia-JOAT, see above!
(xii) I hope your Neighbourhood will confirm this later. Although I don't understand the point of this. Even if it was a joke, why didn't he ask you to kill House, in this case?

[Aneninen]

Also FA is good lead for Varsoonmate.
Lots of crappy soft interactions.
No actual read thrown at each other.
Gogogogo.

Can you show me those interactions?

Makes me think I am a threat to Varsoon, which suggests Kits scum.
(...)
I could compromise on FA.
(...)

Can you explain these?

Wtf? You probably should have told us that yesterday. That's like...blatantly scummy. Can you elaborate on FA? He slightly pinged my gut but I can't remember much about anything major.
Titus, why does that point to kitz?

Yeah, why didn't you tell it, Cheetory?

Note: Egg is reading the game in a very similar way as I do.

@Egg, I will suppose the "that" in the last post is wanting me dead. The question is why? I literally sent all of day 1 tunnelling town. How was I a threat to anyone with a scum wincon? I was even going to sheep House on Kits for day 2 If I lived, so why shoot me? If Kits is scum though....

Oic.

VOTE: laladucky
It's going to take a

lot

for me to move this vote (unless it's to Taly).
Wake me closer to deadline.
Also, Titus is highly likely scum, probably with lala. I'm not going to argue this right now.

The vote, Taly as a named alternative and scumreading Titus while voting for Lalala simply don't add up.

Lala, what happened to your Taly scum read you had? It just magically disappear now that you two are getting lumped together?

What happened to her Bookitty-read, as for this?

Baaaah
VOTE: Kitz

As I said, I don't know whether he's town or scum-JOAT, but regardless of his alignment, this vote may be sheep-able.
VOTE: Kitz

Willing to vote Lalala and Taly maybe, if needed.

[Aneninen]

(ii) Why did you suggest him doing so?

Because it was earlygame and I wanted to get the ball rolling?

(i) Dumb idea.

Yeah, why didn't you tell it, Cheetory?
Note: Egg is reading the game in a very similar way as I do.

How is " that was a dumb idea" reading the game similarly to "that was blatantly scummy"? I feel like that isn't the same reaction at all.
It was like the first thing he said in the PT. I assumed he was just saying/thinking of dumb shit to get the game started.

Why Titus? We can't rule out that but is she our biggest concern now?

Because she's good at directing the flow of the game.

(xii) I hope your Neighbourhood will confirm this later. Although I don't understand the point of this. Even if it was a joke, why didn't he ask you to kill House, in this case?

Because Titus is scarier than House is during the day for scum who's worried about someone they can't control. He was probably paranoid that she could be active scum driving the game. Could also be distancing, but not really leaning that way atm.

(ii) Okay.
(i) Indeed. I read your first post and I simply thought that it was a dumb idea. After Egg had pointed it out that it had been scummy, I realized there might be truth in it. And now I'm changing my mind about the topic again: you said that it was the first thing he posted. In this case, it's most probably simply dumb – and irrelevant now.
(xii) I don't think it was a kind of distancing. (After all, if there's a scum in that Neighbourhood from another faction, Titus might have been killed for real.) But, here's another idea. Varsoon didn't suspect that he'd be killed at Night1. He might have tried to build either a scumcase on Titus or a scumcase on someone in your Neighbourhood. (And it might have worked if Titus had been Nightkilled and Varsoon had been spared.)

[Aneninen]

I don't think so.
If they weren't distancing, Varsoon must have thought that Titus belongs to another scum faction. Whom did he want to ask them? The third faction? Or someone with a Vig Kill? As for the first one: it's not too likely that there are three different kind of scums in a faction (although, not entirely impossible). As for the second one: it's still not too possible, plus, I don't think Titus would have been the best Vig Kill.

[Aneninen]

I'm catching up soon.
Is there anything I should be particularly aware of?

[Aneninen]

It's quite likely the missing kill was me.
My 4th ability was commuter, which I used last night.

That means you don't have an investigation result on Kitz at all.
Is it worth sheeping House then?
Well. I don't think her answer at the end of Day1 to House's "fake-investigation" was a real scumslip, but her reactions are scummy. Just compare the sheer amount of posts from her on Day1 and now.

By the way, House, your JOAT Powerset is odd at best. This means, you're very far from conf-town now. Claiming JOAT is still not a good thing for scum in a Multiball, though, so I don't think I'd like to lynch you in the near future.

I would be quite surprised if both SilverWolf and House were town.

Explain.

Also a possibility that Blue team kills odd nights, Red kills evens.

Moving my vote, for this reason.
This is Informative, how does one know that one is Blue?
VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Another pearl from Kitz. Jumping to a wagon which looks like to have momentum for a weak reason. Red/Blue is a very common pair of naming Mafia Teams, as House pointed out in his next post there.

Titus used the term blue in 1804 and RC used it again right after that in 1805
Titus-Why is it o.k. for you to use blue but not RC?

WHUT?
Oh no, it's not because Titus used the word Blue.
It's because of her posts like these afterwards:

oh right, that's coming from the slot that won't explain how "blue scum" is more likely the color of the other scumteam. Right...

I noticed this too, but I don't think it's a slip or anything. Red/Blue makes sense.

So does red/orange and red/purple and red/white and red/yellow. Why does red blue make the most sense? Why would someone presume the other scumteam is blue?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

________

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

Oh I was just doing that

I actually somewhat agree with the other team (likely Blue) having a JOAT also? Because Varsoon's JOAT was pretty good.

Think this was the one

Okay, Lalala is scum too.
She tried to defend Titus ignoring the fact that TSO said "likely".
By the way, the whole Day1 makes a lot of sense now... Lalala was being wagoned and Titus pushed the counterwagon very hard so as to get someone else lynched.

And I was thinking long ago about something, but at that time I told myself that I was an idiot who speculated too much. What if not?

Cheetory feel free to be dick to me.

I still cannot believe that Ozgin was town.

At least my Varsoon read was right though.

The highlighted part is Miss Marple-tell.
TSO posted almost the same in Masquerade after I got Nightkilled and flipped town. TSO was scum.

Umm what the fuck god damn my auto correct...

I fucking hate my god damn phone

Shyt, I hate autocorrect too.
I wanted to type "I believe you" and quess what the autocorrect made out of it:

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOP!

I did this as a favor to Wake. I was planning on retiring. I'm just leaving this game better when I leave. I'm done.

Do not retire, you're a fun one to play with. Shyt happens sometimes, remember Street Racers London, which I f-cked up seriously.

-Your push on Kitz and RC were very weak and you bit my head off when I asked you to elaborate

I agree almost everything in that post, SilverWolf.
One thing about the Kitz-push. I still think she's scummy, by the way, but Titus voted her

before

House. (House might have had an investigation result on Kitz and at that point nobody knew that he had commuted.)

Aneninen, Titus claimed scum.

his name
is

ADENINE

Good.
Then you'll never be able to get rid of me. I'm all around in your DNA. TROLOLOL!

RadiantCowbells, I'm not a scumbuddy of anyone and I haven't seen a compelling reason for you to believe that.
In fact, if Titus is indeed scum she was probably associating herself with me to set up my mislynch.

I really don't see how autocorrect could randomly put 'blue' in the sentence Titus was writing.
VOTE: Titus

Do you know what the problem with this is?
This:

Seriously autocorrect is the worst
My laptop changes scumread to suckered ._.
Phone has managed to recognise most mafia language though

Earlier, and this post is a blatant example for it, you tried to defend Titus.
Now, seeing that she's going down for sure you don't want to miss the party.

Both Titus and Lalala are in the same scumteam.

Daykill: Lalaladucks

[Aneninen]

TSO,

check my post above!
I'm absolutely not sure whether it was a slip or not.
But.
Building up a case against RC because of using the word "Blue" and telling later that she posted that word (yeah, with capital B) only because of autocorrect and her general behaviour after getting accused of slipping, THOSE are blatant scumtells.

Lalaladucks must be her partner: check out her reactions to Titus's posts. She even pointed out that you had used the word "Blue" earlier.

[Aneninen]

Eh, that would have been a good shot.

If only I could change that "would have" to a simple "has"... ^_^

[Aneninen]

Now I have a little time to post.

That was a great game, Wake, thanks for modding!

Also, gratz for the townies who were eventually winning the game for us.

It's a pity that I spent so little time in the game, #&@%! Red Team! (Of course I understand why you killed me.)

[Aneninen]

SilverWolf has been banned from joining any new games for the next two weeks for playing against her win condition and claiming scum prematurely.

I

do not

support this ruling one bit, and am annoyed that someone thought to do this without even asking me about it first. Though I was not present much in this game, I do know SW worked her butt off this game, and that her situation was a dire one. It's not like she claimed scum without very good reason; I think staff needs to reconsider this action immediately.

Even if I wasn't in the game at that time, I agree with Wake.

[Aneninen]

You should not leave, SilverWolf.
On one day I'll explain you why.