New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[SilverWolf]

Have caught up with everything.

I think Bookitty is town now.

In particular, I see this post coming from town as more likely than from scum

You were not the only one pushing me at the time, SilverWolf. Cheetory pushed me on two points and when I disproved one of them, he decided I was even scummier. That doesn't make logical sense, and then you piled on (all this from my perspective). I don't think any of your points are good, and certainly they aren't valid since I know my alignment. But the combined mass of what I see as crap arguments pissed me off, so I took my ball and went home for a while.

I've returned with a much less fragile attitude since I've actually gotten some stuff done in real life and I'm not under extreme pressure right now.

Explain how this is more likely to come from town than scum here. Can no one else please comment on this until lala answers?

[SilverWolf]

Explain how this is more likely to come from town than scum here. Can no one else please comment on this until lala answers?

Okay.
I can empathise with what Boo was saying there - getting frustrated at being accused of scumminess for (seemingly obviously) ridiculous reasons, although of course no one else knows how stupid they are, apart from yourself. The tone of the post reads as genuinely frustrated town in my opinion.
I admit it isn't actually a particularly great justification for townreading Bookitty, but it swayed me to thinking she's townish nonetheless.

But scum can get extremely frustrated and upset in the same situation but for different reasons. It can be genuine or it can be faked-if the person is scum. No one likes being tunnelled. The key here is to figure out which alignment is doing it and why and I never, ever town or scumread someone based off one post. I am not saying Bookitty is scum for this post or is not being genuine but this post in no way makes her town. You should really look at that Delicious link because House used AtE against me very successfully. So successfully in fact, that I actually got mad at him for it post game for laying a huge guilt trip on me and picking at me all game.

[SilverWolf]

Dearest Annie,

I don't at all doubt that you're accurate in your reads. However, not explaining stuff only helps the dirty scumbumbles and we don't want that, right? I could find exactly five mentions of Kitz in your ISO, might you be able to give your top reason for believing she's guilty? Is it the tone/feeling you get from her posts?

so many elongated ellipses, kinda disconcerting

Wolf, if I voted for Kitz after Skybird would you think I'm scum

I could go for a Kitz lynch

I find both these posts interesting. You want to know why?

Because you only mention Kitz once when you ask her if she is scum here 269 and a few posts after continuing that convo and I don't think you've ever given any reasons why you think she's scum.

[SilverWolf]

You know Bookitty, if you are going to complain about bad cases, that one on Cheetory was not really that great. Just sayin'

UNVOTE:

dragon-I'm really not so sure that either lala or RC will flip scum and I don't like the idea of PLing people right now. Can someone who is actually scumreading them give some reasons for why they are scum?

I think Prolapsed or Kitz are better choices. I'm going to ISO both of them again and pick one but I really do not have time until later to do so or maybe tomorrow.

[SilverWolf]

Bookitty-Titus and I had a discussion about Best Friends already in the game. My post on it was here 893. That link shows they are not normal but Wake really wanted to use them badly in a game. They are masons without a PT, but they know each other are town. It's a town role.

Anyhow, I'm here but a little behind. RL issues so I need to read and catch up in a little bit and try to get my head back in the game.

[SilverWolf]

"Masons,

regardless of when they are allowed to speak to each other

, are considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided they are Town-aligned. A Masonry must contain at least two Masons."

The Wiki wants to have a word with all of you who are saying Best Friends are not normal.

This is talking about Masons. Masons can sometimes have daytalk-we did in Delicious or sometimes be allowed to only speak at night. Yes, they are normal. Best Friends do not have a PT and only know the other is town. They are not normal and that link I provided where this was discussed already says that they are not going to be made normal.

pedit: Was Drawn on Arrival a theme game?

[SilverWolf]

Did you read the link I posted, SilverWolf? Or the second quote?

If you're saying the Wiki isn't accurate, then that's something else again. Best Friends are clearly listed as a variation on Masons and are therefore normal if they are town.

Check this out:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... s#p6768304

I don't have time to read it. RL is a hassle for me today.

[SilverWolf]

@lala-can you please address my 2507?
---------------------------------------------------------------

Can we maybe lynch lalascum? Just a thought. Like ... how on earth has that slot managed to avoid a serious wagon? Gee... let's think about it.

I have not seen you express suspicion of lala before this? What changed?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Nevermind RC. You suggested that in response to Bookitty wondering why she got no result on me N1. Bookitty's result has me wondering though. I did performa an action N1. I targeted house and received No Result. I double checked this with the mod to ensure I was interpreting the result correctly. I am, and that means I was roleblocked N1. Bookitty is basically claiming she was roleblocked as well. What are the chances that we were both roleblocked on N1? I think Bookitty's claim on me is false.

I didn't do anything N1. What is your role, again?

You said you commuted N1?
What?

Yes, I did.

Sorry, I forgot. It's been a bit.

How can you forget this? Why are you barely here and paying attention to this game House?

Also, Skybird-Do not further claim please.

[SilverWolf]

There seems to be a core group -- about 8 or so people -- that are doing all the talking. (Obviously, I am not among that group.)

I will not be able to get back to this game (in any substantive manner) until late late Friday. I'll be posting some sort of prod-dodge between now and then.

This never happened.
------------------------------------------------------

I think I kind of feel okay about Prolapsed too? Maybe? That's a huge maybe and it's mostly relative to the mess of lurkage in this game.

Why do you feel o.k. about him?

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Are you replacing Taly? 2nd request


Also, where is the mod? We haven't gotten a vc since Wed.

I hope everyone is o.k.

[SilverWolf]

How can you forget this? Why are you barely here and paying attention to this game House?

Think about the questions, and think about my preferences.

Am I more likely to be apathetic/inattentive as town or scum?

You know me.

Even if you are more apathetic as town, that does not mean you don't have to play the game. And I don't think I've ever seen you this apathetic in a game regardless of your alignment.

What do you think of Cheetory's track result and Bookitty's resulting claim?

[SilverWolf]

@Silver. I've been watching the game and keeping myow n counsel for awhile. When it occurred to me that there was basically an obvious passive resistance to lynching lala, even though lala has given no indications of being helpful or townie ... the only rational thing that makes sense is that lala is scum and the opposing scum team realized and doesn't want to speed the game up.

In multiball, scum have to be careful not to shoot each other too soon.

That logic make sense?

We already had this conversation at the beginning of the game with Titus and most of us agree'd that it is ridiculous to think the scum teams wouldn't be hunting each other and trying to lynch each other. The last multiball game I was in offsite, the two scumteams were after each other quite a bit. That was fire and ice with a weird mechanic where if one team shot the other, it would not kill but show the scumteam that made the shot, that the other person is scum-kind of like a cop guilty. We had one scum fakeclaim a guilty on the other to get him lynched after he failed to kill him overnight and found out he was scum on the other team. Dragon might remember that since he was the one who was lynched over that and the other scum was later lynched when it was revealed he was lying. My point is, the two teams were definitely looking for and trying to kill each other.

Silverwolf, you're awfully quick to call Bookitty's vote on you OMGUS without really looking at what she said. I'm not entirely sure I agree with the point now that she mentioned it in the neighborhood with quotes and all, but I understand where it's coming from. Much like the Ozgin read, ironically enough, I think she genuinely believes you are scum. Even if she is scum, I think her vote on you is a true attempt to hunt the other team and it might even have merit. Basically the point is that you used the word genuine to describe Bookitty's read on Ozgin which is how it was described in the neighborhood as well. It's a weird coincidence and I don't usually believe in coincidences. The only thing I can't understand is why that of all things would come up in a scum PT AND spill into the thread in your posts. Your reaction to call it OMGUS is off though.

BS-I looked at exactly what she said. She brought up some neighborhood conspiracy theory BS after I cast suspicion on her and called my suspicions a faked read. Then voted me. Then left the thread. Then came back and unvoted and admitted her vote was bad. I don't have a clue what was said in her hood, nor do I care. Is it over the word genuine? So what? The fact that you think that has any merit at all makes no sense whatsoever considering using the word genuine to describe something is pretty common in these games. Hell, you used that exact word in the post of yours I just quoted. There is nothing off about me calling her reaction OMGUS considering she only voted me after I cast suspicion on her.

[SilverWolf]

Yay, we got a VC.

VOTE: Bookitty

I'm going back to this. I re-read the whole interaction where she voted for me after Egg asked about it and I still don't like it. Her AtE in response to a little bit of pressure when I wasn't even voting for her at the time was pretty scummy the way she did it, she was way overly defensive, her neighborhood conspiracy stuff just seems desperate, and her leaving the thread instead of talking to me was off also. The last game we were all in, House did that same stunt as scum. Then there was her vote for me for a faked scumread when her vote has no reasoning, then later coming back and saying she just did it out of anger was very OMGUSy. The whole thing is off and doesn't look like a town response at all. Plus, she was very disengaged from the game then and even since then, is only here to defend herself. Regarding her claim. I don't know what to think of it, but it's awfully convenient how she has no results that can verify if she's being truthful about it.

Alternatively, I am fine with a Prolapsed lynch because he's been pretty scummy as well. He has been promising content and not delivering, his votes are easy and opportunistic, his reads are shallow, and most of his posts don't say much so he's playing it safe.

I'm not really liking Delta's calling for a PL and not doing anything else and I think Kitz is pretty UTR this game as well compared to last game I was in with her where she was town.

lala-I don't know, if she's scum for trolling or not helping, then what about RC's trolling or Prolapsed or Delta being completely unhelpful. I mean, it looks like she may be lynched and I'm not going to argue if it happens. If nothing else, it will be hugely informative considering how many people want her lynched and will get rid of a distraction. I still don't think she's as scummy as some others though.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf, you said skybird's voting looks careful. The Kitz vote looked opportunistic more than careful though. Talk to me about skybird in general though because that's someone who has been pinging my gut. It feels like skybird kind of pops in regularly to say something either obvious or unimportant but isn't really taking any controversial stances or stepping on toes. What do you think?

Well, Skybird is a hard one for me to read. This is the first game I've been in with her on this site but have played with her offsite and this is similar. Her town and scum game are not that different IIRC. She doesn't post a lot in general and that's not alignment indicative for her. The playing it safe is a valid concern but that applies to several people right now and I would really like her and several others to get into the game more. If I had to give a read, I'd say nulltown right now but barely.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf, you just gave a slight scum point on skybird (playing it safe?) but ended with a nulltown read. Can you give me a town point to back that?

It's admittedly a weak read. I think there could be town reasons she's laying low. Like I said, she's played like this as town offsite before. Plus, there are others playing it safe that I'm a lot more worried about right now.


Oh and as a side note to the discussion on boon and dragon-while not confirmed, I'm going to assume they are town for now because it would be ridiculously stupid to claim best friends as scum in a multiball set-up and I have to assume boon and dragon are not that dumb.

[SilverWolf]

I think Kitz is pretty UTR this game

So uh, what makes me under the radar? From what I see, I'm constantly poked on, many says they prefer a lynch on me, voted by some.

Because lately, you only come out to play if someone pokes you or if I specifically ask you for your reads for example. Compare that to 180 where you were actively trying to figure things out without prompting and it seems different this time.

Why is that?

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
Because potato.

You missed a couple questions. I'm sure it was just an oversight. I'm sure you are not going to just show up every time you are in prod range and be worthless this game right?

House, back on D1 you really wanted to lynch someone out of your hood. Everyone in your hood is still alive. Are you still scum reading someone in your hood?

How can you forget this? Why are you barely here and paying attention to this game House?

Think about the questions, and think about my preferences.
Am I more likely to be apathetic/inattentive as town or scum?
You know me.

Even if you are more apathetic as town, that does not mean you don't have to play the game. And I don't think I've ever seen you this apathetic in a game regardless of your alignment.
What do you think of Cheetory's track result and Bookitty's resulting claim?

[SilverWolf]

Don't play against your win condition.

[SilverWolf]

It's mostly just the manner in which House has been playing the game is really annoying and frustrating.
I don't like people who ignore shit in the game that's addressed at them.
And I hate it when those people act like they know better than people when they can't even be assed to take the game seriously.
And I hate it even more when I think they're probably town.
I'm especially pissy this game because I'm burnt out, getting tired of abrasive bullshit in mafia and I'm dealing with shit IRL.
I know that doesn't really excuse it but like, at least it gives a frame of reference for me being a shitter atm.

I agree with this 100%. Nothing annoys me more when a person plays like an anti-town ass. The best course of action is to sideline people like that by either lynching them or ignoring them. Alternatively, avoiding them in future games is a good idea as well.

[SilverWolf]

I don't really want to lynch her :/ but I'm gradually starting to think she's probably scum

In the above, I was saying I'd prefer not to lynch Boo. That's the stance. I was townreading her a while ago but now I'm not so sure.

These two quotes are a perfect example of why you have a wagon on you. This is totally fencesitty. I don't want her lynched, I was townreading her, but she's probably scum and I'm not so sure. That kind of weak read is why some here think you are scum.

PB's interactions are towning up.

How so?

[SilverWolf]

Per Wiki:

A Vanilla Cop is similar to a Role Cop, in that it is an investigative role that can receive the role name of its target, but not an alignment. The difference between the two is that a Vanilla Cop only receives results in the form of "Vanilla" or "Not Vanilla".

Vanilla Cop is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. Vanilla Townies, Mafia Goons, and Serial Killers with no additional powers return a "Vanilla" result, while all other roles return "not Vanilla".

So she can't verify boon or dragon unless one or both are VT's faking best friends or mafia goons faking best friends both of which are extremely unlikely.

[SilverWolf]

Hey guys, I realize we are close to deadline but I came down with a cold from hell and I quite literally feel like doing nothing but sleeping. So, I'll try to check in a few times before deadline but I really don't think I'll be able to contribute much more content or thinking or reading or whatever that is where my brain has to do something.

Ugh, bleh

[SilverWolf]

Thanks guys <3

[SilverWolf]

House, lala-can you please move your votes so we don't NL today?

TIA

[SilverWolf]

Boon-I know how Wake does neighborhoods better than anyone here because I've been in several when he's had them offsite. It is completely random. He's had all town hoods in his games, he's had hoods with multiple scum-the last Fire and Ice game offsite I was a VT in a neighborhood with a fire scum-ask dragon about this, and 2 ice scum-ask House about this. There was another hood that had the last scum and 2 other hoods that were all town. There was a game before that were a couple hoods had scum in them, there were a couple all town hoods, and people not in hoods-this one was awhile ago so my memory is sketchy but I think that's right.

Point being-you can't predict what Wake will do with neighborhoods in any set-up. I think House and Skybird were in a Large Normal here of Wake's that had neighborhoods-perhaps they can tell you if neighborhood spec worked or not in that game or I can go check when I'm feeling better.

Playing outguess the mod with Wake is futile. It does not work.

[SilverWolf]

I'm not talking about scum members in hoods...at all. That is irrelevant.

OK, Did I read this wrong or is my brain just fuzzy as hell with cold medicine or WTF are you trying to say exactly with the below?

I just want Lala on a rope, Cheetory. She's also in a neighborhood, so setup spec will probably out her if she's scum. Large Normals with neighborhoods tend to be easy to do some setup spec with.

If you are talking about roles, let me repeat, there is no rhyme or reason to how Wake does hoods. Wake put both the doc and the cop together in an all town hood in that Fire and Ice game.

So, how will being in a neighborhood out her if she's scum?

[SilverWolf]

Hey guys, I realize we are close to deadline but I came down with a cold from hell and I quite literally feel like doing nothing but sleeping. So, I'll try to check in a few times before deadline but I really don't think I'll be able to contribute much more content or thinking or reading or whatever that is where my brain has to do something.

Ugh, bleh

hope you get well soon!

Thanks!! Doing slightly better after a long nap and some cold medicine but I still feel gross. And nope, I don't have any grapes but I do have some lemonaide. I wouldn't drink out of the same cup as me though.

[SilverWolf]

FA-I think Bookitty is right. A jailkeeper will both roleblock and protect the person who is jailed. So if Skybird was jailed, she wouldn't be able to be killed or be able to use any action-she would get no result if she tried. It would stop her from killing someone if she tried as well.

OTOH, for example, if Bookitty targeted Skybird for a kill and Skybird was jailkept, Bookitty's kill would fail. She'd get no notice. It just wouldn't go through. If she targeted Skybird with an action outside of a kill, she'd be able to target her unless she herself was jailed or roleblocked.

Having been a jailkeeper before, I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

[SilverWolf]

@Kitz-Who are you scumreading right now and why aren't you voting?

I'm always slow / reserving on votes, but yeah, I'll vote for someone I personally think needs a vote.

As for who's scummy, well.
Prolapsed Brain is a big, red button. Read his ISO, this is overal anti-game, unattentative, sheepish and fluff, lack of actual contribution.
Lala pings me really high too, for the not-much-care attitude and several other things which is made obvious by now.
Kitty is also among there, for the obvious points of mindset and play, as well as the whole "Mislynch town" thingie and "Why should I care".
Skybird pings me slightly, recently going all neutral and careful, while going for an obvious target in the same mindset.

Boonskies pings lightly, but otherwise a mix-read. Dragon is a town-lean/null. Everyone says BestFriend, but I dunno, no actual evidence yet.
Radiant reads as a "fucking troll", so mix-read.
House is null due to my mixed reads on him, but there's a townlean due to the claim and claimed actions.

Personally I read Cheetory and Anenin as town.

The rest is null. Anyway, voting PB because, god damnit, those reasons.
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

Oh, btw, House, I will totally vote Kitz with you now after this dumb scumclaiming of a post.

I don't want to lynch Kitz. I think she's town.

What changed here?

[SilverWolf]

lala-Your read on me also changed from scum to town and I love that explained as well but unfortunately we really don't have much time before a NL occurs. House is missing and Taly hasn't been replaced yet so the rest of us need to compromise.

VOTE: Kitz

I have been scumreading her for awhile and I feel like people would be more willing to move to Kitz then they would be willing to move to Boo right now.

I really don't like the call for a PL on lala. It makes me nervous about voting for her because I feel like she's mislynch bait right now for scum and the best friends for some reason are helping this.

I'm still sick but will be checking back before deadline.

If we end up NLing, I will be pissed.

[SilverWolf]

I can protect you from all vampires:



Just as soon as I get rid of this cold from hell:

[SilverWolf]

Thanks!!

<3

[SilverWolf]

Wake88 will have limited access in the upcoming days for personal reasons. I have all the access I need to keep the game running smoothly, but if you PM Wake please CC me. Thanks!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is likely why things are a little delayed. No big deal. RL happens. I'm sure now that Skybird has PM'd them, one of the other two mods will take care of it as soon as they are online.

[SilverWolf]

Dyslexic man walks into a bra

[SilverWolf]

There's two fish in a tank, and one says ''How do you drive this thing?''

[SilverWolf]

That's awesome!!

[SilverWolf]

[SilverWolf]

Well, I'm not a real obvious blonde. Kind of between dark blonde and light brown. But I do have a blonde moment and it just happened last weekend. My daughter and I were at the store with her cousins and her aunt and another friend, shopping. Anyway, my daughter runs out one of those automatic doors and since it says out, she can't get back into the store. So I am going to go around to let her in and her cousin (who is 8) steps up to the door to open it and goes to me real loud so everyone can hear and laugh at me, "you can just step on this spot here to open it and let her in, you don't have to go around"

So yeah, I was shown to be dumber than an 8 year old.

[SilverWolf]

Well, we have a scum flip so the first thing we should do is figure out who would work as a Kitz partner via associative tells.

[SilverWolf]

Boo said she thought he was a tracker who tracked her to anen the night he died. Per her claim, she visited anen with her VC ability.

Cheetory never claimed outright but clearly had a guilty result on her. However, gunsmith's will get guilties on Vanilla Cops.

In Normal games on mafiascum.net, a Gunsmith gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers.

Not sure what to make of this yet.

[SilverWolf]

@lala-The biggest issue I have with you atm is your read progression. In particular your read on me went from scum D1 to town D3. What changed?

@Lalala: What makes you think I'm scummier now? Can you walk me through the evolution of your read on me, please?

sorry I didn't do it yet!

leaving right now though, will do it later!

promise

Okay, let's try to figure this out! I scumread you D1 just based on gut I think. Then D2, uh what was I doing, guess I should check... Oh I didn't mention Boo at all D2. Makes it hard to remember how I was reading her. Well, I'll just ISO her then. So idk what to make of her stance on the Ozgin debacle, maybe slightly townish? Erm, ah... Then the thing with Cheet, I thought she was townish near the start of that and then more in the middle she seemed more suspicious. Becaaauuuse, uhm I'm sorry idk I'm tired I'll have to do this tomorrow I guess. Anyway, I have a townlean on Bookitty at this instant but my read on her is dippy flippy flopping like a dying Nemo, which I'll try my best to rectify! Tomorrow--

Pedit: ah :{ I gave one this morning and I'll pair them with reasons tomorrow

Spoiler: soon to be not reasonless reads

Two more things lalala:
i) Can you give some kind of a readslist? If it the reasoning for each read is like "iuno whatever" that's fine just like still give the reasoning/rationale behind each read you have.
If you have time, I'd really appreciate that.

ohhh really quick jic Day ends before I get home

Cheet - town
Silver - town
RC - town
Egg - town unless he's really good at being scum idk maybe he is
dragon - reluctantly town
Boon - town I guess but stop trying to ML pls

House - could be town? could be scum? idek - behaviour seems town but JoAT claim seems off
Skybird - unsure
Boo - keep flip flopping on her kinda leaning townish for now though

Kitz - scumsies
FA - scumbumble
Drixx - scum!
PB - scummm
Taly(slot) - scum wheee

but I believe I forgot DeltaWave - scum obv

[SilverWolf]

So far, FA and Drixx make the most sense as Kitz partners.

[SilverWolf]

So far, FA and Drixx make the most sense as Kitz partners.

Why if I may ask?

I'll explain later when I have more time. Been busier than expected today.

[SilverWolf]

No more PL. Going to figure something out.

Please feel free to tell us what that is considering your only contributions to the game since you replaced in is to call for a PL of lala.

So far, FA and Drixx make the most sense as Kitz partners.

Why if I may ask?

I'll explain later when I have more time. Been busier than expected today.

Still somewhat busy today but I should get to this later this afternoon.

I am bursting with ennui.

You can change that by, I don't know, not being worthless like you have all game.

[SilverWolf]

Sorry for being absent; work has been comprehensively kicking my butt so far this week. (Not game relevant, but work Internet was down most of yesterday -- the horror!)

I checked on Boonskiies yesterday and he's not Vanilla, so I think that clears that up. As I said before, I don't think two scum would claim together like that, plus, who would they be partnered with?

@Lalala: Why do you think you're being pushed as a wagon right now?

@DeltaWave: What are you trying to figure out? Why do you think Lalala is a policy lynch? I think that title would more appropriately go to a PB lynch, but I typically consider lurker/troll lynches as separate from policy lynches for reasons that aren't very interesting and aren't specific to this game.

Wait, Boo's scum.

VOTE: Bookitty

I'm a best friend/X-shot commuter. I commuted last night. She couldn't have gotten that result on me. Remember early when I said don't protect me, protect Dragon? The commuter is why I wanted dragon protected. Also, it's why I wasn't afraid to claim Best Friends and I knew I'd be safe.

OK, So Bookitty lied about her result then.

VOTE: Bookitty

[SilverWolf]

Well, I obviously meant to say Dragonspawn (which is why I shouldn't post from work when I'm being distracted) but I'm okay with being lynched because of the original issue with Cheetory, which I thought should have netted my lynch yesterday. So vote away. I've had trouble tracking in this game anyway so it's not like I'm amazingly useful here anyway.

No, it is not obvious you meant dragonspawn. You said Boonskiies. When he said he commuted, you now say you meant dragonspawn.

Considering you also have a gunsmith guilty on you and visited anen the night he died, we'd have to be fucking idiots not to lynch you today.

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

lala-your gifs are adorable but just take a step back as you are clearly frustrated right now, please don't spam the thread

boon-you are in serious confbias mode, while you have made a few good points, you are tunnelling lala and it isn't really helping

For example, you are saying her play has been bad this game but you are also accusing her of some plays with Varsoon that would have to be pretty good play to be believable. You say scum has to be on Titus wagon but you are picking the hammer spot when if you remember correctly lala hammered to spite you for the most part so just take a step back for a minute.

Also, why is it that Taly and lala have to be scum together? Where is the connection between them? Why isn't it possible for one of them to be scum but not the other?

I am going to be taking a look at Taly who I have been suspicious of for awhile now and FA who I have also been scumreading for awhile now. They are currently my top picks for scum. I'll probably case and vote for one of them later today/tomorrow since I'm going to be somewhat busy due to Father's Day today.

[SilverWolf]

Sorry guys. RL has been kicking my ass and I couldn't get to this game yesterday. I wish I had the same time to devote to this game that I did in the beginning when it started but unfortunately, I don't right now.

I'll be back a little later today to try to figure a few things out.

[SilverWolf]

House is most likely going to have to be replaced at some point.

[SilverWolf]

I was just ISOing House and I saw this again. For someone who likes to preach civility in games, Drixx sure didn't act civil here at all. He blew a very minor misunderstanding that he wasn't even involved in up into a huge fight and tried to have House removed from the game. Then later continued to scumread House for not apologizing. This is pretty fucking low on Drixx's part. It's gross.

Get over yourself, Drixx.

You're neither cute nor clever.

And you had better not be scum, because that would be a modkillable offense, attempting to manipulate the mod to further your win con.

[SilverWolf]

Drixx may have been scum
but I completely agree with his point.

I can understand that because you got a bunch of shit you didn't deserve because most of us, except Drixx, didn't get the joke. But, I still don't understand why Drixx singled out House and asked for him to be removed. I was reading that whole exchange to see if I could find any scum motivation in what House did and I can't really. But I have a hard time scumreading House over being an ass because that's not alignment indicative for him.

[SilverWolf]

xtomx-If you ISO me you'll see where I've detailed my suspicions of Taly many times.

[SilverWolf]

RadiantCowbells, Silverwolf, and Lala all show up on every wagon, and is guaranteed to have at least one scum in them.

The Case for RC:

RC has been the first person on the wagon twice, and the second person on the second one. The fact I feel he "knew" that Bookitty was scum makes me lean towards there being a PR on red scum team that figured it out. Who knows? Could have been a pr hunter, and maybe RC thought Boo was just a PR. I do believe the biggest thing here is the earliness of being on the wagon. Lean scum. Most likely scum partner? Silverwolf.

The Case for Silverwolf:

Silverwolf wagon analysis doesn't have much to it. The first one, it seems as if she's trying to get a wagon going, and the second two she has a spot right in the middle of the wagon. Another peculiar thing is that Silverwolf is immediately after Lala on both wagons. Interesting.
Most likely scum partner? Lalaladucks

This being said...there is another grouping I found within the three. The secondary lynch to the Ozgin wagon.

lalaladucks:

dragonspawn

,

RadiantCowbells,

Ozgin,

Silverwolf

Both RadiantCowbells

and

Silverwolf are voting with Ozgin, the primary lynch target to vote Lala. With Varsoon being on the Ozgin wagon at the time, red scum has all the reason in the world to distance themselves off of the Ozgin wagon thus making sense that red scum would be on the second biggest wagon.

I want one of Silverwolf or RC lynched toDay.

Whatever the fuck Boon? You think I'm scum with RC because................. I don't even see a reason in that paragraph. It's all about RC.

Yeah, you're damn right your wagon analysis on me has not much to it. I'm next to lala on a couple wagons and we are scumpartners now?

Yeah, RC and myself are voting with town Ozgin on the lala wagon, my supposed scumbuddy, and now I'm back to scum with RC again.

How about you look at the reasons for all my votes and those of the other people you are scumreading? I believed Ozgin was town. He was clearly frustrated with scum!Titus and scum!Bookitty tunnelling him.

Regarding the other wagons. Yeah, I'm going to be on all of them. I was scumreading Titus, Kitz, and Bookitty and all 3 of them practically scumclaimed in thread. Check any of my town games. I aggressively push my scumreads and am always on the lynch wagon on scum.

So yeah, I have no clue what you are trying to prove but it makes zero sense.

Also, have you bothered to ISO anyone and see who is more likely to be scum? I'm leaning heavily on FA, Delta, and if I had to go off the Titus wagon, it would be Taly over lala who hammered to spite you and RC who was first on the wagon. I'm also leaning town on both lala and RC right now.

I don't do strict wagon or VCA analysis to scumhunt. I usually combine that with behavior in thread and I usually ISO a person as well and look at flipped scum for associations.

C'mon Boon, I know you are better than this.

[SilverWolf]

That's my fault on FA Boon-I've been meaning to case FA and unfortunately have had RL issues come up that have kept me from being able to come here and do it.

I will get to it eventually. There's plenty of time left in this day. What's your hurry anyway?

[SilverWolf]

Also, xtoxm-I can't believe you've read this game at all and find that I've been careful or hard to read. That's just like a read you pulled out of your ass or something.

[SilverWolf]

Wow, you got to be SK in a game. Did you have fun? I'll have to read it when I get time

And Boon, he left himself open to change his mind by saying he hadn't finished reading which is understandable since he's a replace but that's not the best reads list I've ever seen and it doesn't negate Taly's scumminess. He can easily change his mind on several of those reads and NK the ones he can't.

You've played scum before right?

[SilverWolf]

Well, if enough other people are scumreading those players, maybe he feels like they are safe townreads because they can be lynched anyway and then he gets towncred.

However, I think his House read is good. There's certain things about House's claim that makes me think he's being honest with it. Like his saying he was RB'd trying to gunsmith Kitz. Well, we now know Kitz was ascetic so that makes sense. The fact that Skybird got a no result N1 makes sense if he commuted. I only hesitate slightly because House has lied so many times about claims as both alignments but he is probably being honest here.

[SilverWolf]

House hasn't posted anywhere on this site for almost 2 weeks now so his activity here is not indicative of anything right now.

[SilverWolf]

Boon-House and I had a talk after Delicious and I don't want to get into it but he said he was going to change some of his tactics towards me in games. Unfortunately, he's also been distracted and absent in all his games around the time he disappeared in this one. I hope everything is o.k. with him.

[SilverWolf]

FA is my strongest scumread right now per play/ISO, etc. People have been asking for reasons so I'll give some.

I believe he's been playing extremely careful, his pushes are all opportunistic and easy-he's pushing Ozgin and lala in the beginning. Says he doesn't know about Bookitty when asked even though her and I and Cheetory just got done with a very heated exchange 2361. Why so wishy washy at that point? Later, when it becomes safer to vote for her, he does 2590.

Also, he's been pretty antagonistic and abrasive most of the game but when PB called him on it here 2619 FA changed his tone after that to be more conciliatory. Here's an example of that 2802. He also never really discusses accusations against him but rather ignores them and changes the subject which I see as scummy also. I mean there's a few people calling him scum, voting for him but he pretty much ignores it.

A lot of his posts too seem to be just making a few minor observations here and there but not really getting into the game. He's just kind of playing from the sidelines which is a safe place to avoid being noticed or looked at really. I've played with him as scum before offsite. He's very UTR as scum.

Finally, his positions on the last few wagons are one of the major reasons he's been pushed into scum territory for me. Here's a few examples.

Titus lynch 2042. He's not on it but he comments on it 2023. So it's not like he's not around to vote for her. But doesn't.

2936 is the Kitz lynch. There were several of us around and voting for/pushing Kitz including FA but he never voted for her at all.

Then during Bookitty's lynch here 3015 he's not on this wagon either. However, he's pushing for a hammer here 3010 so why didn't he hammer her himself then?

I believe he was playing it safe and avoiding all these wagons and I don't see that kind of behavior coming from town. It looks more like scum avoiding VCA which is what Boon is using right now to try to catch scum.

And I also want to know why he's been pushing lala all game and even talking about her recently but hasn't put a vote on her this day at all. If she's scum to him and clearly he still thinks so via this 3102 why the hesitation to put down a vote? I don't see town hesitating unless it's the hammer or lylo or something.

VOTE: FA_Q2

[SilverWolf]

OMG that is so fucking cute and awesome, LOL.

[SilverWolf]

My penis very much likes to take control, and damn well I'll listen to it. Doesn't steer me wrong too often...

This reminds me of a guy I used to date. Didn't last long. The relationship, I mean.

[SilverWolf]

If that's what you consider flirting, you need to get out more.

[SilverWolf]

Egg-It was a personal comment. I was re-reading House and that whole argument again and wanted to comment on it. I don't like those kind of tactics being used in games. It annoys me. I hope Drixx saw it and decides not to do that again in a game. That's about all there was to it although I think House's reaction to that was more town that scum.

[SilverWolf]

I already explained why VCA is a shit way to read anyone this game due to the nature of the wagons and the fact that we lynched 3 scum in a row. Titus, Kitz, Bookitty were all pretty obvious scum and all of them slipped hard in thread when pushed. I happened to be around when it happened. Of course I'm going to be on the wagons and pushing them. I've already explained all this. I'm far more concerned about people actively avoiding the wagons when they were here and didn't vote. I've pointed that out as well.

I didn't realize aggressively pushing and lynching scum and having excellent reads all game is a scum indicator. That's a new one on me.

And as a side note, I'm sick of the crap this game. It's pages and pages of nonsense and it needs to stop. All this boon vs rc, boon vs lala, lala vs dragon, dragon vs rc, rc vs pisskop is getting old and makes the game unreadable. I'd appreciate it if you guys would limit the nonsense.

[SilverWolf]

You really don't want to do that pisskop.

[SilverWolf]

Reasons?

[SilverWolf]

DS hasn't given any reason either. Being conftown doesn't mean he's right.

[SilverWolf]

That's BS, you clearly have not meta'd me at all if you think that. Have you ISO'd me closely yet?

[SilverWolf]

Titus scumslipped. I was there. RC and I caught her. So yeah, I voted for her. And what does 1.05 tell you exactly?

[SilverWolf]

So let me get this straight. I voted for and pushed scum all game. Titus was pinging scum, her posts were screaming of self preservation and she was very hostile and off, she slips-lies about it, gets caught and I vote for her.

Kitz lies about her hood by saying House was protecting me, tried to link me up with Titus and House, plays scummy all game, screws up her fakeclaim, and yeah I'm voting for her.

Bookitty lied about her results on her claim but even before that Cheetory and I pushed her hard and her response was scummy as fuck. So yeah, I voted for her.

I was townreading Ozgin and that's why I didn't vote for him but on D1 I was scumreading lala and was voting for her. I have since changed my mind on her.

Again, my reads have been spot on so far.

What the fuck is wrong with that?

[SilverWolf]

You know I don't pay a damn bit of attention to whether I'm on a wagon or not when I'm going after my scumreads. I don't give a fuck about where I am when I vote. I just vote. Period. When I think I have scum, I will vote for them without hesitation. I'm a very aggressive scumhunter and anyone who has played with me can attest to that.

Let me know when you have some real reasons pisskop and we'll talk.

And dragon, you were pushing lala hard, then RC, now you are switching to me-again, just because you are conftown, does not make you right. And being paranoid of me doesn't make you right either.

[SilverWolf]

LOL AT PISSKOP THINKING I SHOULDN'T BE SCUMHUNTING BECAUSE IT'S MULTIBALL.

I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHAT TEAM THEY ARE ON-THEY ARE FUCKING SCUM AND NEEDED TO DIE. HOW FUCKING HARD IS THAT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

I WAS THERE WHEN THE SHIT WHEN DOWN. WHAT SHOULD I HAVE DONE INSTEAD? IGNORED IT.

GIVE ME A BETTER REASON OR FUCK OFF

[SilverWolf]

Fuck Off pisskop.

/done

[SilverWolf]

Great, you've resorted to lying to get your way because you have no fucking reasons and haven't been able to come up with one. You do realize people can meta me and find out that's not true right?

[SilverWolf]

I am interested because I am pretty damn sure wolf is scum but I have not pushed wolf because I don't think that I have a case that I can rally the rest of town with.

My experience with wolf leads me to be HIGHLY suspicious of appeasement wolf and I have seen a lot of appeasement from wolf over hard pushing. I didn't like the exchange with drixx, here and house AT ALL as I expected something entirely different from town wolf. The latest interactions with PK are meltdown wolf and that is not alignment indicative with her IMO.

My read on her is mostly gut. I want to see if you have a good case worth perusing.

Right, you think I was appeasy over hard pushing when I wasn't even pushed at all during that drixx/House fiasco. That was Drixx trying to get House removed from the game and using a comment House made to me to do it.

And now, supposedly, according to you I'm more angry as town than scum and me getting angry with pisskop is a meltdown now and not alignment indicative.

Gee-It's almost like you are making shit up because you are desperate to scumread me. Nothing scummy about that.

[SilverWolf]

I get the exact opposite.

Scum wolf is less likely to try to offend people, imo, but is somewhat more emotional.

LOL, You don't know shit about me at all and clearly have never meta'd me.

[SilverWolf]

Great, you've resorted to lying to get your way because you have no fucking reasons and haven't been able to come up with one. You do realize people can meta me and find out that's not true right?

<3

Theyll still love you after your flip

That's right. A lot of people love me. I'm a fucking loveable person. You are still lying about my meta.

[SilverWolf]

FA-I've played with you as scum offsite. You are UTR as scum. You are somewhat UTR as town also.

pisskop-you still have no reasons

[SilverWolf]

Meta and VCA

And your overreaction

You are lying about my meta, I've already explained all my votes, and I'm pissed because you can't tunnel without being an ass about it.

[SilverWolf]

If your reasons are to piss of an emotional player, then good fucking job.

I've got other things to do.

See ya.

[SilverWolf]

I am interested because I am pretty damn sure wolf is scum but I have not pushed wolf because I don't think that I have a case that I can rally the rest of town with.

My experience with wolf leads me to be HIGHLY suspicious of appeasement wolf and I have seen a lot of appeasement from wolf over hard pushing. I didn't like the exchange with drixx, here and house AT ALL as I expected something entirely different from town wolf. The latest interactions with PK are meltdown wolf and that is not alignment indicative with her IMO.

My read on her is mostly gut. I want to see if you have a good case worth perusing.

Right, you think I was appeasy over hard pushing when I wasn't even pushed at all during that drixx/House fiasco. That was Drixx trying to get House removed from the game and using a comment House made to me to do it.

?

who said anything about appeasing over votes. YOu never appease over votes - you are 'appeasy' in your general attitude and interactions. Wolf is smarter than to overtly react to votes.

And now, supposedly, according to you I'm more angry as town than scum and me getting angry with pisskop is a meltdown now and not alignment indicative.

Gee-It's almost like you are making shit up because you are desperate to scumread me. Nothing scummy about that.

No, you are more angry and abrasive as scum. You melt down when people drive you nuts though and THAT is not alignment indicative. I don't see the silly interaction with PK as meaning anything right now.

Tell me, why would I be so desperate to scum read you wolf? Because a few players say I might be scum and one votes me? Does that make any sense? No, of course not. Right now I am not in any danger of being lynched at this time.

VOTE: silverwolf I want to see where this goes.

Yeah, I've never gotten upset at being voted for and pushed for shitty fucking reasons before. You are lying about my meta as well.

[SilverWolf]

FA-I've played with you as scum offsite. You are UTR as scum. You are somewhat UTR as town also.

pisskop-you still have no reasons

lol.

UTR as scum and UTR as town but you said the fact that I am UTR is a reason you think I am scum.

You realize that does not make sense.

You'd have a point if that was the sole reason I'm voting for you but it isn't. So stop trying to twist things around because that's scummy as fuck.

[SilverWolf]

Mine isn't either, in fact his behavior here is scummy as fuck word twisting, lying, and OMGUS.

He's scum.

[SilverWolf]

FA-I've played with you as scum offsite. You are UTR as scum. You are somewhat UTR as town also.

pisskop-you still have no reasons

lol.

UTR as scum and UTR as town but you said the fact that I am UTR is a reason you think I am scum.

You realize that does not make sense.

You'd have a point if that was the sole reason I'm voting for you but it isn't. So stop trying to twist things around because that's scummy as fuck.

I didn't twist anything. I pointed out your own faulty logic. Sorry that you don't like that but tough.

Oh right, suddenly you are a tough guy now that someone gave you and opening and an excuse to OMGUS me. Scumbag.

Yeah, I've never gotten upset at being voted for and pushed for shitty fucking reasons before. You are lying about my meta as well.

Where did I say that you didn't?

You get upset all the time.

You outright said I'm too smart to get upset over being voted. Did you forget your own lies already? Do you need to be quoted?

[SilverWolf]

You used to be cute boon.

lala-post more duck gifs please, pisskop doing it just feels dirty

[SilverWolf]

pisskop is an ass who is lying about my meta and pushing the buttons of an emotional player to get me to break-down.

lala-please put me to L-1, I'd really appreciate it

I don't want to replace but I don't want to play this game any more

TIA

[SilverWolf]

So lala, will you do it please? You are around now right?

[SilverWolf]

That puts me to L-1. I'm phone posting so I'll detail later but no one hammer without a claim. I'll be back as soon as I'm not mobile.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Boonskiies is voting for me, not FA.

[SilverWolf]

Jailkeeper:

N1-Boon N2-Boon N3-dragon N4-FA

[SilverWolf]

I'm on my phone and will be out most of the evening so I'll do my best to address things but it's harder for me to post.

I figured a doc would be on dragon, they are obvious NK targets.

I don't crumb because I suck at it. My jailkeeper convo with FA is about the closest thing you will get to a hint.

[SilverWolf]

Sure, but I'll be out for awhile. ISO me.

[SilverWolf]

Test it tonight. Give me a target.

If there is an investigative, check me.

I gotta go. I'm busy.

[SilverWolf]

FA-I think Bookitty is right. A jailkeeper will both roleblock and protect the person who is jailed. So if Skybird was jailed, she wouldn't be able to be killed or be able to use any action-she would get no result if she tried. It would stop her from killing someone if she tried as well.

OTOH, for example, if Bookitty targeted Skybird for a kill and Skybird was jailkept, Bookitty's kill would fail. She'd get no notice. It just wouldn't go through. If she targeted Skybird with an action outside of a kill, she'd be able to target her unless she herself was jailed or roleblocked.

Having been a jailkeeper before, I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

I would not exactly call that a crumb...

Interesting revelation though. UNVOTE:

It also seems odd that you jailed boon considering:

Plus, the negativity I'm getting right now is exactly what I wanted when I'm confirmed town on Night 1. Scum will be less likely to shoot me.

PROTECT DRAGON

It wasn't a crumb. I already said I don't crumb. It was a hint. I wanted to stick with the Best Friends because I didn't want to interfere with a PR's ability to perform an action and I figured they'd be targeted. Boon saying to protect dragon means that scum probably wouldn't go for him either and if there was a doc or other protector, I was pretty sure they'd be on dragon.

I went for you because I was scumreading you hard and wanted to prevent a kill.

[SilverWolf]

Test it tonight. Give me a target.

If there is an investigative, check me.

I gotta go. I'm busy.

Meh; JK is easily faked.

How?

[SilverWolf]

I believe the JK claim but scum can be a jailkeeper

Are you suddenly scumreading me over my claim? I can be checked by an investigative.

[SilverWolf]

Titus scumslipped. I was there. RC and I caught her

Ummm. Wasn't the slip that she knew the unflipped team was blue? She flipped SK, so that turned out to not be true.

Right, but she lied about it by saying it was an autocorrect error. She would have no reason to lie like that as town. There were also numerous other reasons I was scumreading her.

Pisskop, you're right that VCA points to Silverwolf, but I don't quite agree about meta. She was kind of the same way as town last time. Not important though because I'm probably about to vote her anyway.

Radiant, why is FA obvscum? I was ready to call him scum at the beginning of this day, but his most recent posts look more town to me. Silverwolf, same question. I don't see any word twisting or lying. You accused pisskop of lying as well but aren't pushing him the way you are pushing FA.

I already explained my FA scumread when I voted him. I agree he looks somewhat better right now. I'm reconsidering who I want to vote for. I just haven't made up my mind yet. I believed pisskop was town due to House's claim and the way he did it. Trying to get me into an emotional state and lying about my meta seriously pissed me off. He did something similar as town in NS's game after I replaced out, saying I replace out as scum which is a lie plus I was town there. So I don't think it's alignment indicative. He's just an ass with his pushes.

And House probably would have stayed as scum.

Nope he hasn't posted anywhere on this site in weeks. He has other issues.

Vote Silverwolf

Why didn't you announce this was L-1?

[SilverWolf]

Do have one question wolf. Usually you recommend not having the scum know what night actions a pr will use to prove themselves. Why are you suggesting Wye tell you what to do to prove yourself now?

If there was a way to confirm me one night it would definitely be worth it due to fact that people keep wasting so much time going after me. Look at Boon's latest comment. We are going to end up mislynching a PR due to paranoia and that's just stupid.

Egg-I still have a hard time believing you didn't pay better attention to the VC and know it was L-1. If you've been paying attention to the game, it was pretty obvious Boon wasn't voting for FA. I've seen similar tactics used by scum before to out PR's. Definitely doesn't seem right to me.

[SilverWolf]

That meta, reaction, and VCA argument is garbage and not alignment indicative for me at all. It's already been argued and I'm not doing it again. You are lying about my meta pisskop.

I am a town jailkeeper. I explained why I jailed who I did. Lynching me on set-up crap is insanely stupid. You are removing a protective PR from the game by mislynching me.

PK's behavior here is really bad. He is bully people into lynching me, scumreading anyone who doesn't agree with him, and forcing through a mislynch.

This game has become unbearable for me.

I am done here.

[SilverWolf]

you should vote yourself for posterity.

You've done about 99% of the posting since you replaced in and a good part of it has been harassing me. I never understood why House blacklisted you, but now I do.

[SilverWolf]

Egg already hammered

You people just lynched the town jailkeeper by following pisskop off a cliff instead of thinking for yourselves.

Idiots.

[SilverWolf]

FA-I full claimed, if there was a modifier I would of said so.

pisskop-I answered those questions on my jail targets at least a couple times already and given reads, most recently on FA. ISO me, it's all there.

I'm going to be busy for the next couple days. I'm dealing with some things in RL that take precedence over this game right now. At least until Tues or so. I'll try to check in when I can. Hopefully, won't need V/LA.

[SilverWolf]

Still the town jailkeeper.

I'd like to thank you guys for giving me the opportunity to respond to FA's last two posts before lynching a town PR for no good reason.

AGAIN

[SilverWolf]

I'm on my phone and don't have time to post more.

Good luck I guess.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: laladuckie

Why not ya know?

[SilverWolf]

@mod

V/LA until Sunday July 5

Thanks, everyone enjoy your Holiday!!

[SilverWolf]

Oh FFS, LOL.

Is there some way the mods can just end this now or do we have to go through the motions?

I am not going to waste time and energy fighting a lost cause.

VOTE: Egg

[SilverWolf]

pisskop-If you are being honest about your role, your only option was to track me, I am nearly certain if that happened you got a no result. xtoxm, I don't believe I can be roleblocked

[SilverWolf]

Also I would have gotten a 'you went nowherez' message from tracking you

Why do you say that?

[SilverWolf]

I'm not understanding what is going on.

I was fully expecting to be lynched today.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, and I'm not going to sit around and let that happen. I'm tired of the BS this game.

If I have to scumclaim to get lynched today I will.

[SilverWolf]

WTF are you talking about?

[SilverWolf]

Sorry, I'm feeling demoralized.

[SilverWolf]

Why PB? What did he do?

[SilverWolf]

What the hell did Egg say?

[SilverWolf]

Hmmm, did he out his buddy to you? I find it hard to believe Egg would do that.

[SilverWolf]

Hmmmm...........................Wonder why I made such a damning post.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: SilveWolf

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: SilverWolf

[SilverWolf]

Nope, I didn't do anything last night.

[SilverWolf]

Also, I can't be roleblocked.

[SilverWolf]

I'm already lynched. I hammered myself. I never hammer myself as town.

For me, a self-hammer is a scum claim.

[SilverWolf]

Sorry, It was a no win situation for me. I'm am not the fighter Egg is. I've been ready to give up for quite awhile now.

[SilverWolf]

Sorry RC, but don't hate.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, this game was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay townsided with all the PR's in play.

[SilverWolf]

Sorry, It was a no win situation for me. I'm am not the fighter Egg is. I've been ready to give up for quite awhile now.

Honestly, you could have won this. I was out of commutes, and RC was going to be super annoying fighting your lynch. Not to mention people would have voted pisskop/FA. This was actually a pretty easy scum win game. Especially since you claimed JK.

No it wasn't.

[SilverWolf]

You were in a dream position for scum to pull off an upset.

No way in hell. I would never have survived to endgame. Lots of people were suspecting me. My claim was in serious doubt. I was almost lynched the day before until I hammered duckie.

Egg could of done it. Not me.

[SilverWolf]

Really? 3 powerful town JOATs, a best friend who can commute 4 times, a watcher, a tracker, a gunsmith and whatever else I'm not remembering right now. I hunted down some of them but no way was I expecting that.

And yes, Egg could of won this for us. He's a fantastic scum partner to have. I really learned a lot from him. My only regret, which I wrote about in the PT that you guys will see when it's released, is that I didn't try harder for his sake. If anyone deserves it, he does. I have the utmost respect and admiration for Egg.

[SilverWolf]

Boon/xtoxm-The game was advertised as not balanced.

Now, I'm not saying that is the only reason we lost.

I fucked up with VCA. I was on every scum lynch including the SK lynch.

So I'm not making excuses here.

[SilverWolf]

@mods

Egg asked for the Red Scum PT NOT to be released.

Don't release it please!!

[SilverWolf]

We tried to kill you pisskop, it didn't work. :/

[SilverWolf]

Hey pisskop-I'm really sorry about that comment I made about House blacklisting you.

I only said that because I was scum and pissed.

Thanks for the compliment. You were a threat to me specifically which is why we wanted you dead over the BFF forever.

[SilverWolf]

<3

[SilverWolf]

Boon/xtoxm-The game was advertised as not balanced.

Now, I'm not saying that is the only reason we lost.

I fucked up with VCA. I was on every scum lynch including the SK lynch.

So I'm not making excuses here.

I mean, it wasn't stacked against you is all. 3 scum teams allowed for anything to happen. We could have lost 3 town pr's potentially day 1.

I'm not saying that was the only reason we lost. There were a lot of factors in play. Not the least of which is the Blue Team and SK died early and those of you left were pretty town, I fucked up VCA, I sort of screwed up my fakeclaim by not adding a modifier or just saying I jailed dragon or whatever, and pisskop and xtoxm as replacements were onto us and Egg got caught by a PR. It didn't help me specifically that FA and dragon just got out of 180 with me and were super paranoid plus I was treating House with kid gloves which is not something I do as town.

I'm happy I wasn't caught out on any major slip or anything and that I lasted as long as I did.

[SilverWolf]

<3 Varsoon, I wish you would of been alive longer, you were awesome

I couldn't do it. I just didn't have it in me :/

I agree that xtoxm is impressive.

[SilverWolf]

Egg-I did play to my win condition all damn game. I wasn't going to win once I was the only one left. I'm not going to fight and put energy into it just to maybe last another day or two and be lynched anyway. I explained all this to you.

Mods-Can you release the dead PT please?

[SilverWolf]

OK, Everyone has made their position known they feel like I fucked up.

Got it. Thanks guys.

I feel like shit now.

/out

[SilverWolf]

Then don't play with me again.

Sorry.

[SilverWolf]

I might just have to take a break from Mafia for awhile anyway.

[SilverWolf]

I do feel like I'm being blamed for the loss.

I'm dealing with some stress in RL too.

I was feeling defeated.

I didn't want to replace out. I didn't feel like that would of been right.

I fell like I put a ton of energy into this game and a lot of work. The PT is 23 pages. I hunted down the PR's, picked my roleblock targets, discussed strategy, had really good reads, and felt like I was townread a lot as well until PoE and VCA caught me.

If I didn't try, you guys can complain but I put a ton into this game. I worked way harder than I do in a lot of games.

Blaming me is BS. Guilting me is BS. Making me feel like shit is BS.

Sorry we lost but Varsoon died N1, that didn't help. Egg was caught, that didn't help. Sorry, I did my best but I had enough. The game wasn't fun any more for me after my fight with pisskop although I tried really hard to emulate my town meta there.

I hate lying, I hate fakeclaiming, I was nervous.

I really don't know what else to say here. I've apologized over and over.

[SilverWolf]

I always talk a lot in PT's. That's what daytalk is for. The only problem I had with it is that it was hard to switch my mindset back and forth from scum to town. And honestly, I'm more than fine with constructive criticism or even ideas of what I could of done going forward. That's how I learn and improve.

But when people say I'm not playing to my wincon and no one wants to play with someone who gives up BS when I put a ton of effort in, that's BS. I'm not going to put up with that.

I am not going to be guilted into being blamed for this loss.

Thanks Varsoon <3

xtoxm-thanks as well, I knew it was over when you caught Egg

I'm just sick that people are blaming me...................

[SilverWolf]

Wake-I am totally cool with the Red Mafia PT being released but Egg specifically asked for it not to be....................................

[SilverWolf]

Ask Egg if you want to know why. I think it's a request that should be respected.

Most mods ask if it's o.k.

I am always o.k. with the scum PT's being released when I'm scum but not everyone is.

Some people don't want secret strategy revealed or say things they don't want others to see.

[SilverWolf]

I was going to kill dragonspawn. That's who Egg told me to kill. Then who would I have said I jailed? Varsoon said I should say I jailed xtoxm and that would of explained his no result.

This is the kind of thing I want to hear. Things that will help me when I'm in this situation again. I have NEVER been in this situation on this site. It's the first time I've been the only scum left alive like this in a no win situation.

That "scumclaim" post was shitty and all my fault and I have no problem with people telling me so. I had about 4 hours of sleep and posted without thinking. I was seriously demoralized. I was very much hoping for Egg to make it to endgame. Not me. I wasn't ready for that. I came close to a lynch a couple times and only got out of it by hammering duckie. I was under a ton of pressure. It was too stressful for me. I was not ready to go on alone. I would of self-hammered if Egg wouldn't of talked me out of it.

I'm human, so when I put a ton of effort into a game and get blamed for the loss, I don't really even know what to say. It's like I did all that work for nothing and should of just lurked out the game or something.

[SilverWolf]

It's like I did all that work for nothing and should of just lurked out the game or something.

You've learned from this game. A lot more than some cliched 'never give up' mantra.

I have learned a helluva lot this game.

Our PT was fucking 23 pages when Blue Maf's was only 3.

[SilverWolf]

3rd highest post count.

Just sayin'

[SilverWolf]

Never give up. Never surrender. yadda yadda.

No offense Cheetory but if I see this one more time, I'm gonna puke.

[SilverWolf]

Very good point. Xtoxm might have placed her in the confirmed town pool. If she was blocked and a kill went through, the first thing you assume is she couldn't have made the kill. That kind of unpredictable thing is why you don't give up.

Right, Or he could of figured out I was Ascetic. It's not that big of a stretch. He was very heavily suspecting me. I doubt that would of gone away.

Anyway, I won't give up again. I already figured that much out. But I'm done explaining myself.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would appreciate some sort of constructive criticism/advice from others either here or via PM to help me improve my late game scum game going forward.

Especially from those of you who have been there a lot and have some cool ideas on how to deal with it. My hatred of lying is part of my problem. Getting stressed easy is another.

[SilverWolf]

By the way, great job everyone and I hope to play with you guys again.

And thanks mods for all your work, much appreciated!!

[SilverWolf]

I'm glad so many of you love me. That helps. <3

The thing is, this is the FIRST time on this site I've been in this situation. It will get better and easier every single time it happens in the future.

Shut up PB at me sucking at lying and getting stressed easy not being good mafia skills.

Don't think I'm not aware of it. If I can overcome those weaknesses, that would help me a lot. It will get easier with experience.

-----------------------------------------------------------

If she flips scum after that remark I'm going to be upset with her.

Oops, I can be mean as scum I guess. :/

Glad I apologized then and I need to NOT do that going forward.

[SilverWolf]

Well I sorta kinda like you except for the fact that I read you wrong.

Does that make you feel better?

Yes, it does.

I had you as pretty solid town though from the start. I might have trouble if I have to go up against you when you are scum though in a future game.

[SilverWolf]

I LOVE YOU SILVERWOLF <3

your hammer on me was hilarious omg

I had to do it lala. I absolutely could not resist.

<3

[SilverWolf]

I am already pre-inned for Aero's game and Skybird is too. I don't think you should count on House though Aero.

[SilverWolf]

I haven't heard from him in awhile which is not like him. He was having issues in RL, then disappeared. I truly hope he is o.k. He knows how to contact me. If I hear anything, I'll let you know.

[SilverWolf]

Thanks for your support guys.

It helps because I feel shitty enough about this as it is.

I will argue I never scumclaimed outright. Even the post they used as an example is not a scumclaim.

And to be told I played against my wincon and threw the game. Especially after being blamed for the loss already by one of my team mates.

Makes me sad. I'm human, I make mistakes. But I do put a ton of effort into all my games, and I tried really hard to win this one. I feel offended that I would be banned with the reasons they gave.

That said, I'm not going to appeal it. I just won't sign up for any new games over the next two weeks.

It still bothers me as a player because I do try hard and put lots of effort in, never try to damage games or break rules, and even try to give back to the site by volunteering to IC. I would of appreciated some sort of discussion with me before getting a PM that I was banned. That really took me by surprise.

It's not like I planned this or anything or would ever do it again and it certainly wasn't intentionally malicious. My chances of winning were slim and replacing would of been worse, IMO.

[SilverWolf]

Thanks but I have resigned myself to the situation. It sucks because it's damaged my reputation on this site and had a bad effect elsewhere. I will probably quit the site when my two games are up.

[SilverWolf]

Thanks Cheetory, right back at you, there's some cool/good people here I really like and enjoy playing with but unfortunately things happen I can't talk about right now and it is due to this crap and I really don't want to deal with that. People act like I committed some great sin and completely discount anything else and just concentrate on this one thing and to be quite honest, I am sick of it. I'm not letting it damage my reputation Wake, it's just that some people think they know what they are talking about and think I would do this in other games and I wouldn't. I don't play like that and never have.

[SilverWolf]

I will also be a reference for you and your character.

You are so awesome. <3

[SilverWolf]

The fact of the matter is, me being banned like that in a public fashion, definitely hurt me because people know about it, talk about it, and judge me based on it. So now, it's an issue in games. I'm supposedly the one who doesn't play to my wincon which isn't even fucking true and makes me not want to play at all.

Thanks Varsoon-You definitely made this game fun for me. You are a good player and a good person besides. <3

Aero-You are always awesome as a friend and a player. Thanks!!

Thanks RC, Cheetory, Wake and everyone else who spoke up in support of me in this thread. That means a lot to me. You guys are great.

It might just be that things are getting to me right now more than they normally would due to some RL stuff. It could be I just need a little break.

I almost quit awhile ago due to some drama in a couple games and I had so many people asking me to stick around and being supportive and I wasn't even expecting it which shows there is a great community here. I just wish the jerks would stop being so judgemental.

Anyway, this really helps guys. Thanks so much!! I'll think about it.

[SilverWolf]

Just don't leave for good, or I'll never get a chance to redeem myself and win a scum-game alongside ya. :3

OK, For this reason alone I'll stick around.

This whole reaction really took me by surprise and I think I at least need to get over this before signing up for new games or just be super selective for awhile. Luckily, I get enough invites to be able to do this. Once I'm past it, I'll go back to normal and probably be stronger because of it.

Thanks again guys!! <3

[SilverWolf]

I definitely don't want you to leave either Wolf. I really respect you as a player and I know you are a good person. ((hugs)) One day I want to run a large theme game and have you play in it.

I am always open to play in games with awesome moderators and I have a feeling you'd run a great game. Thanks sweetie. <3

[SilverWolf]

All anyone has to do if they want me to play in a game is send a PM. Even if I'm not around here, I get a email message if I get a PM here so that works the best. Even if I am on break, I would for sure make an exception for you guys.

Someday I'll probably mod a game as well but that has to be on hold for the time being due to RL. If I'm going to do that, I want to make sure I have the time to do it right.

[SilverWolf]

Thanks PB, I like you too and like playing with you. You have a unique style of play which is a good thing.

I really appreciate all this support from everyone. It helps a lot!!

Have an awesome day guys!!

[SilverWolf]

You should not leave, SilverWolf.
On one day I'll explain you why.

Looking forward to that. You can PM it to me sometime if you want.