Open 608: Jungle Republic - A jungle is conquered(game over)

[hayatoBL]

Hey everyone. Let's have another fun game together.

Thanks zzzx for replacing the mod!

VOTE: Klick

A random vote. Definitely not a serious one.

[hayatoBL]

Why do you feel the need to reassure us your vote isn't serious when we're obviously still in RVS?

You're right. We're obviously in RVS. Which means, I'm obviously being silly. Which makes your question seems like an attempt to look useful.

VOTE: Wanderer

What do you think about Savant thinking your question was good?

DV's probably town, I'm leaning scum on Mario and IS.

Anyone: Does anybody knows if town-Klick also make early reads like this? Because this is quite similar to the previous game, where he was scum.

[hayatoBL]

Klick: After you explain your reads, I need you to explain why you want FireBringer specifically to take a shot at it.

[hayatoBL]

I'm on my phone right now and I know I have to respond to other stuff. Will do it later when I have my laptop.
VOTE: Mario

mykonian: Why gameplay over Mario? If there's someone rushing the hammer, isn't it mario?

[hayatoBL]

Sorry I meant vedith

[hayatoBL]

Because Gameplay looked more pushy with it.

He *looked* more pushy because of his "scum! hammer! hammer!". But now you agree that mario was the one doing the actual push and therefore more pushy than gameplay? And since you thought being pushy is a scum-tell, mario should look more scummy to you. Come and join the mario wagon!

I'm not sure I like the changed reason from Mario but I'm also not sure why we wouldn't pressure them both for this.

We can attempt to pressure them both. But only one person will be lynched Today and real pressure comes from the danger of knowing you'll be lynched.

[hayatoBL]

My other thoughts in as less words as possible as I'm a busy person and need sleep.

-My weak scum-read on Wanderer has basically turned into a null-ish. Can't think of anyway to further that discussion. The reason I was emphasizing that it was not a serious vote was simply because I wanted to vote on the biggest wagon(which at that time was Klick's), but was too lazy to think of a good RVS joke to go with it.

-probably have an alignment tell between klick and fire.

[hayatoBL]

Prod-dodge post as I'm too tired to write until I'm awake tomorrow. Sorry guys.

I'll let deas vail dip his toes in town pool for now. Have scum-feels on wander er again and will elaborate later.
UNVOTE:

Never had a scum-read on Mario tbh.

Will probably vote for firebringer will do this tomorrow.

[hayatoBL]

How about my awesome train, guys?

Random weird question, who you guys think would be most dangerous scum team here?

Did you read some of the earlier Jungle Republic games before asking this?

I will explain my reads, but I'd like

Firebringer

to take a shot at it first. Firebringer, what do you think my reads are based on?

That's interesting.

I actually was just asking a random question lol. Was wondering who everyone thought was tough to beat.

Anyone, who has played with scum-Klick, will know that he plan his scum-game very well in the scum PT. Faking conversations like this one in order to seem like they're not buddies and to help each other to seem like their contributing isn't unbelievable. But, the counter-theory for this is equally likely, which is Town-Klick and -Firebringer having a normal conversation.

Why I thought it was staged was because firstly, a Klick-Fire team would explain Fire's random urge to post that weird question.

FireBringer: Or if it wasn't purely random, you may explain where did your urge to ask that came from? It would make me less worry if you can explain it.

Secondly, Fire's post:

I kinda want to know too.

was unnecessary and was probably made because he forgot to express his surprise initially when Klick asked him specifically.

As of votes, I will be ISO'ing others to see if there's someone else more worthy for the gallows.

Pedit - I did made poor judgement last game, but I don't expect to do it again this game.

[hayatoBL]

ISO-ing gameplay,

If memory serves, his gameplay in the previous game (Fire and Ice) is a bit different from this game.

In both games, he jumped from one wagon to the other, while not reading the thread. But in this game, there were attempts to make it obvious he was not reading the thread as if he wants people to meta-read him as town.

One may argue, "If he didn't read the thread, then it will be obvious he didn't read the thread!" But the post he made this time made it super-obvious he was not reading, which makes me feels like it was staged, rather than genuine ignorance.

Ok Im convinced mario is scum
VOTE: Mario

oh idiot savant
I dont see such a thing with him

Cases on mario and savant were identical, but he claimed to not see them.

Also, gameplay you *did* crack under pressure in the previous game. You know, the one where you suddenly ISO Mist and called her scum.

[hayatoBL]

The question came here cause this is first game where I recognize almost all of the names in game. So was curious who everyone else thought was most dangerous players to be on a scum team.

I was wondering if this would be close to my own thoughts.

Seems like a silly thing to be curious about, considering the victors are here in this game. No?

[hayatoBL]

^Well, *some* of the discussions so far aren't meta-related. Rather than posting a text about how you can't contribute, how about contribute where you can?

I personally won't meta-dive anyone at this stage of the game. And I think no one is expecting you to.

[hayatoBL]

Also, @everyone, please throw comments and questions at us, I feel like we're being avoided.

I like this comment. Either Town or good at faking it. I will have to take your ISO into account (which I haven't done) before giving my nett feels on you, but I didn't see anything scummy from my first read.

I actually want ika to also give his reads. If you are scum, then you guys need to fake double the thought process, which will double our chance to catch you as scum.

And if you're Town, you *should* look more Town. I know ika is letting you to handle D1, but would like you both to participate.

Klick

: I thought your reasons to think savant and mario scum was bad, though not necessarily comes from a faked thought process. Bad because Town *must* choose to answer Fire's question either by suggesting a team in two's or in three's. Either way they can be accused to be either as Mafia or WW.

The only other way to go about it was how Deas did it, but he didn't know enough players from this game very well to suggest a whole 3 or 2 members team for your read to work there. This makes your town-read on Deas also bad.

Your scum-read on savant for myko's unvoting him was also bad imo, because it's more of an alignment tell than a scum-tell. You're calling Savant scum because he looks like myko's scum-partner, for something myko did without knowing myko's alignment. Assumption made here that you don't know his alignment. How do you feel about voting for myko right now?

What is your read on Wanderer *without* his unvote from Savant?

I'm looking forward to your next move, Klick.

[hayatoBL]

Normally, I don't try to disassemble a wagon without suggesting them to jump on my wagon(as I have no wagon I would like to push currently, I couldn't), because I appreciate any pressure created. But I feel like you have more excuse to stay on Savant's wagon the longer no one opposes it. And now I'm opposing it.

About my read on Wanderer I'll do it later because of laziness.

[hayatoBL]

And if you're Town, you *should* look more Town. I know ika is letting you to handle D1, but would like you both to participate.

Then tell me how one *looks* more town.

Phone posting. What I meant was if you guys are town, you should naturally look double the Town since you guys are two players with a Town mindset. I don't mean You should go out of your way to look .

[hayatoBL]

Deas: yeah, but the more content the better. Asking an already active player to double their effort seems unreasonable. But asking a hydra-partner tobe active is reasonable and would double the content from that slot. And if they are Town, they shouldn't have anything against this.

I would like to drop this kind of discussion as it doesn 't really help in terms of scum-hunting. Unless it does help you read me? In which case, I would like you to explain how.

[hayatoBL]

I know I should have done this years ago. But I was too

lazy

distracted to turn my thoughts into a post. So sorry. Try your best to make me less worry of you.

ISO-ing you:

So was I. Why him over me?

I found another of those useless question. I mean if you had given a bit of thought, it's clear why Mario voted Klick over you. You may argue that it is a post-RVS question and wouldn't be as insightful, yet I don't see where you would go with this question and therefore, is more likely asked just for the sake of posting a question.

And is answered, but I don't like it. I don't agree btw his stance changed (don't remember who said that) he just seems very eager to hammer ika no matter his allignment. Which imo is antitown. And then he tries to look protown by waiting for a claim just in case they're the seer and I don't know how to feel about that yet. I mean, rolefishing comes to mind and coaching comes to mind, but maybe I'm just looking into this too much

because I don't really see Mario be this obvious so early.

The bolded suggests that in the end you null/town read him, but while coming to that you suggested scum-reads on him(rolefishing, coaching, trying to look protown, seem eager to hammer). And to make matter worse, no one was asking about your reads on mario. So you voluntarily explaining scum-reads which you no longer believe in feels like either a) an attempt to let other push that wagon or b) to seem useful by providing content.

While we're at it, one of the reason I town-read Deas was because he claimed to have reads which he chose not to reveal.

I have way too many nullreads and not enough scumreads.

It's quite reasonable to have three scum-reads at this particular juncture, considering we're at D1 and some players aren't really playing.
Do you expect to have enough scum-reads at this point?

Which makes this commentary fake to me. Feels like you're trying to say 'Even if I have only three scum-reads which would probably suggest I'm scum, I'm aware that it's not enough but claim to have three scum-reads anyway, so I'm not scum'.

VOTE: Wanderer

I disagree with the Savant wagon and good with the Vedith wagon, unless Klick or someone else can counter my counter argument.

Fair warning: Gameplay and Jazz can be good policy lynches in case we can't agree on one lynch, so you might need to up your effort. Will lynch gameplay rather than jazz.

FireBringer's play is different from the previous one. But a good kind of different. Different could suggest scum, but could probably means he is improving his play. Not willing to lynch him today.

[hayatoBL]

I also thought some of your reads too naive, Wanderer. you said Klick is Town and gameplay is too sloppy(or maybe careless was the word?) to be scum.

[hayatoBL]

Whoa. Dodging prod. Sorry guys. Will probably read up tomorrow and write something a couple of years later.

can we extend this game by one or two days considering we have a couple of replacements. Would It thanks.

[hayatoBL]

appreciate* it

[hayatoBL]

And by game I mean Day.

[hayatoBL]

I don't even know how to respond to this because that was my first post in this game and the 3rd post made by someone actually playing this game. It was a random, silly question that could have maybe lead to an awkward response. It didn't, and that was that.

I understand your playstyle here. You post any question early game and see if anything happens. Fine. That's why I decided to read your question on *me* as null because I decided that your questioning was playstyle-indicative and was not alignment-indicative. This question towards mario, however, is on another level because one could predict accurately what mario's answer would be which would not indicate mario's alignment in any way. That's why it was off to me. Though, I decided to put less weight into this as I have currently other issues with you.

I went back to look at the context of that post and I have no idea what to make of it. I vote Mario in 82 and my next post, 92, I unvote him. And there was nothing to trigger that, except Savant bringing my question to Mario back to my attention. I was trying to discuss whether Mario would be so obvious as scum, but my post lacked a question to invite the reposne I wanted. I'm still scumleaning Mario/NM, but I need more interaction with the slot to develop my read.

What kind of question would you have asked and to whom?

Because I don't see you asking, 'Are you this obvious as scum, mario?'

And the reason why I said about the thing about Deas being Town was because there lies the difference between Town-Deas and scum-you. Explanation:

I believe Town is more likely to hide reads than scum. To give an example: If Town have a strong scum-read on X but have a minor town-read on the same person, Town is more likely to hide that town-read, as revealing it will probably work against his own goals which is to lynch X. Deas had other reads(so he claimed) but chose not to say them as
they are probably not helping him achieve his goal.

You, on the other hand revealed scum-read on mario although you're not scum-reading him(so I understood initially). Now you're saying you still do and for that I need to check for consistency,

tl;dr Town reveal reads to achieve their goal, while scum reveal reads to look Town.

About Savant:
I disagree with the Savant wagon because I don't see why he's scummy and I'm think his wagon is scum-motivated. I have rebut Klick's version of the case with no answer in return. Do you want to respond to that?
I disagree with myko that it's a scum-tell though it's not neccesarily coming from a fake thought process.
As of your meta-case on bella, I need you to explain it to me.
If there were other cases I've missed, please link them. I'm fairly sure I didn't.

My PL comments are warnings to create pressure to get them to produce content.

My reads aren't set in stone and I just post anything I think because even if I'm wrong, the reactions to those thoughts can help me develop my reads more.

Sure. But reads come from thoughts and scum has to fake thought process to blend in.

[hayatoBL]

Jazz: You'll have to quote which part of the post you found unclear, because I think it was clear enough.

As of the rest of the thread, I'll write about it eventually as I just can't find the time to.

[hayatoBL]

Sorry guys. I'm either busy or too tired for this these days. I promise I'll be more active in the Days ahead if I get to be alive.

VOTE: Vedith

I prefer this over the savant and the myko wagon. When I wake up in the morning, which is probably a couple of hours before deadline, I'll adjust my vote in a way a lynch will most likely happen. But for now, I'll let my vote where I'm more comfortable.

I suggest that if you are the seer and you think you're going to get lynched, you should claim even if you're not at L-1 because you may be quick-lynched.

[hayatoBL]

I will say I could go with a Pimhel's lynch too tbh.

I had this feeling his push on Wanderer was fake. sorta. not really fake as in wanderer-pimhel being partner fake. I just remember the feeling but can't remember why.

So any takers? If pimhel's wagon become as big as vedith when I wake up, I'll jump there.

[hayatoBL]

Wait. I meant, if Pimhel's wagon is at least one vote less than vedith, then I'll jump there.

[hayatoBL]

you right i did jack shit yesterday here cus i wanted bella to have day one. she might come in but it will be mostly me today.

so you can direct everything towards me

tbh, if anyone should be going solo bella would be better. I have nothing against you personally, but you make too little content (from the last game) and are potentially hard to read, making you a reasonable policy lynch for 'intentionally making yourself hard to read'. I strongly suggest bella *also* comes in and give her thoughts.

I think inactivity would be a reasonable explanation for this no kill. Another one is, they didn't bold the kills or didn't send the kill-PM if that was required. The latter happend in another game I played in. Two reasonable explanation with no reason to believe one is more likely than the other.

What's your next move Not_Mafia?