Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!

[texcat]

VOTE: Haschel funny hat

[texcat]

Ha! You're right.

VOTE: Hopkirk

[texcat]

Vote: Hopkirk

. He knows why.

Haschel, can you explain this? Clearly Hopkirk does not know why.

[texcat]

VOTE: Haschel

No matter what Hopkirk explicitly said or merely implied, I asked you for an explanation and you are refusing to give us one? Why?

[texcat]

Ha! You're right.

VOTE: Hopkirk

Lol yup. Best hat must go.

VOTE: Hopkirk

4 votes now, at L-3

VOTE: Haschel

No matter what Hopkirk explicitly said or merely implied, I asked you for an explanation and you are refusing to give us one? Why?

VOTE: Haschel

No matter what Hopkirk explicitly said or merely implied, I asked you for an explanation and you are refusing to give us one? Why?

Because as soon as I give an explanation then Hopkirk's actions moving forward will be affected by that, and I wanted to see how things played out.

At any rate, I've seen enough. Hopkirk knew full well that we were in the Random Vote Stage of the game. Everybody knew that. Accountant even said it was a random vote.

Unvote: Hopkirk

Now the question is do we focus on the players who allowed a wagon to get to L-2 less than a day-and-a-half into the game? Or the players who ignored all of this?

Let's try the latter.

Vote: SamX

Hm. I'm posting this just to show that texcat had his vote on Haschel before and seems to have forgotten about it. Also, Haschel counted this second vote of texcat as vote number 5 on him, when it was only 4 (because texcat already has his vote there). Off the bat, I'm thinking this is a slight town-tell for both, but because we're only on page 3, it's not as strong as it can be.

VOTE: SamX

moar votes pls.

Evidently the mod missed my RVS vote change to Hopkirk for the better hat. But Vijay didn't miss it; he hopped on. It's odd that he's saying that I forgot where my vote was, when he forgot (or took the mod's word) for where my vote was.

[texcat]

Role PMs are out now! Please confirm now. Game will start when 11/13 players confirm.

As a reminder: This is mod-confirmed a 10 vs 3 Town-Mafia setup.

@Hopkrik

Sorry i havent been too active today as i was scuba-diving.

Anyway, i didnt comment much on the game because during the time of that post it was RVS, and i believe we were waiting for others to have their first post.

So we're getting the ball rolling i see, if you want me to say something about the game, then i will mention the role list.
Isnt this the role list where the serial killer has a 50% chance of coming into play? that means we have 2KP correct? Or am i confused here?

Confused?
I'm seeing a lot of activity from Gob that looks like activity for its own sake, posting just to be posting. And his reads list is basically a who has posted and who hasn't list. Very little about the quality of the posts.

UNVOTE: Haschel
VOTE: Gob

[texcat]

Lol, yes, I have read the thread. I knew that we were 10 town vs. 3 scum. Have you read the thread??

[texcat]

Vijay, why do you think texcat is a possible vote? I still don't like the vibes he's giving off, he seems to be deflecting more than anything after calling for "moar votes" twice.

Huh? That wasn't me calling for moar votes.

[texcat]

Texcat:
I townread gob as he seemed to be transparent and fairly open with his thoughts about how the game progresses(even if he's being arrogant and condescending). That in my book is a towntell.

Perhaps. I dislike posts like the one below that refer to "all the other scummy shit" without being able to clarify what that means or back it up. I wouldn't call that transparent. And it seems like a scum tactic to me. If you call someone scummy enough, town may start to believe you.

gob, do you believe VeeGee is scum or not?

Yes, i do believe he is scum, at this point i believe he noticed that he had fucked up so he decided to go all out and vote me, trying to play it off as just a bad play. Not to mention all the other scummy shit he has done.

[texcat]

I don't think that's OMGUS. Accountant didn't call you scum because you said her logic was off. She just wants an explanation of what is "off".

[texcat]

Oops. Sorry about needing the prod. Speaking of prods, what's up with St. Constantine. He's not posted anything but prodges since he replaced in.

The Acct/Gob argument is boring. I don't think Acct is fence-sitting. She did seem to downgrade her opinion of Gob rather quickly, but I expect townies to revise their reads as new information comes in.

[texcat]

At the time of 138, only one player, Texcat was voting gob. Also, the case on him was that the reads on his list were weak. & I said that part of them weren't even reads. I cannot see how this could be interpreted as a defence.

Just to be clear, my case was that his reads were mostly based on number of posts. (Which I guess would mean weak). But that combined with Gob making a lot of posts that were mostly without content. It's like he wants to be considered town because he posts a lot, without considering the quality of the posts.

[texcat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: St Constantine

He hasn't even bothered to remove his mistake of a self-vote, and has made zero contribution.

[texcat]

Sorry, I didn't want to go into every detail. But while we are at it, could you, please, confirm or deny wether my statement "gob had altogether three reads on his list" could possibly defend him from your case or not?

No, it wouldn't. I think Gob has just gotten scummier as the day has gone on.

[texcat]

UNVOTE: St Constantine
VOTE: Gob

That may be L-1.

[texcat]

texcat: Nothing really stands out until 314 where he moves his vote to Hermit and then in 329 moves it back to gob. While in 311 he's recapping his scumread on gob and there's also 316 This iso makes me want to reread gob.
@texcat: Why did you vote Hermit there for a while?

Shrug. I was hoping some pressure would get him to do something, anything. When he asked for replacement, I moved back to Gob.

[texcat]

@Salamence20 why should we lynch Vijay? You are the other replace in and have provided much less content than Wanderer.

And I find it incredible that you are calling for a Vijay lynch when your vote is still on yourself!!

[texcat]

@Hopkirk, the thing I find most scummy about Gob is the way he throws smudges around at almost everyone. Trying to find something that sticks?? He calls them scummy and doesn't back it up with a vote. When questioned, he can't even back up what he's said, at all.

Perhaps. I dislike posts like the one below that refer to "all the other scummy shit" without being able to clarify what that means or back it up. I wouldn't call that transparent. And it seems like a scum tactic to me. If you call someone scummy enough, town may start to believe you.

gob, do you believe VeeGee is scum or not?

Yes, i do believe he is scum, at this point i believe he noticed that he had fucked up so he decided to go all out and vote me, trying to play it off as just a bad play. Not to mention all the other scummy shit he has done.

Other examples,
* Says that Vijay is pulling posts out of his ass, but thinks he's town.
* Accuses me of not reading the thread when I pointed out that he obviously hadn't read it when he started speculating about SK. Has a scum read on me for "twisting his words", but can't explain how I twisted them.
* Says that Acct's logic is off, but then retracts that to say that her votes are all over the place, and then retracts that to say that Acct just flipped opinions, then retracted that to say that she's fence sitting.


Other reads? I'm being lazy and hoping for a flip before I reread. I'm inclined to think that VG/Wanderer and Acct are town, but due mostly to my read on Gob. I'm hoping that Hopkirk and Haschel are town because they seem to be putting some effort into sorting people and helping town. I've got a whole boatload of null reads, some that just haven't posted enough and some that I just need to reread more carefully.

[texcat]

Based solely on the way the votes are going, I'm actually beginning to think that Gob and Wander are both town. We've been in a stall for quite a while. If one were town and one were scum, I think scum would be more active trying to get us to lynch the townie. It's possible that both Gob and Wander are scum, but again I think scum would be more active in promoting a third candidate.

UNVOTE: Gob
VOTE: Accountant

[texcat]

That is not how I read the HC Hopkirk interaction at all. HC implied that he voted for Hopkirk for some old beef, but Hopkirk claimed to not know HC at all. HC refused to explain. That's why I voted for him.
UNVOTE: Acct I'm going to sleep on this.

[texcat]

Mod, can we get some prods?

I'd like everyone to have a chance to comment on the Acct lynch.

Also v/LA till Monday

for the holiday weekend.

[texcat]

Salamence,
I thought your case on Acct hinged, in part, on the connection between Vijay and Acct. Now that Acct flipped town, does that mean anything for your case on Vijay?

[texcat]

Mod, could we get some prods??

nobody is in prod range, amazingly...

[texcat]

I should never have taken my vote off him yesterday. On a reread it definitely feels like Scum play rather than new play.

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

VOTE: Gob

[texcat]

Salamance, what is your case on Vijay? Is it just that he doesn't done anything? Or just that he voted HC for withholding info? I'm just not seeing very much there.

[texcat]

Yeah, that Dessew post doesn't make a lot of sense. But he did claim that he hasn't read the thread. Certainly worth looking at closer after we lynch gob.

[texcat]

Odd fake claim, though. I thought Doc was the preferred fake claim.

[texcat]

I would if I could, but I can't so I won't, hammer, that is.

[texcat]

So why the hammer, Sala? If you think he's town and really the cop???

[texcat]

If he flips town it means I had nothing to do with it as it confirms Vijay as scum.

Huh? You hammered, and now you claim you had nothing to do with it?! And how do you figure that would confirm Vijay? Have I entered an alternate universe?

[texcat]

VOTE: Salamence

[texcat]

You didn't.

[texcat]

Vijay's only post on D2 was his vote on Salamence? I don't see where Salamence says that. But that is the last post that I see in vijay's Iso.

I remain unconvinced that NotMafia/Vijay is cop. I am sure that NotMafia didn't track me last night which he clearly claimed, unlike his cop nonclaim.

Nevertheless, I am happy with my vote on Sala.

[texcat]

NM's confidence in Gob flipping scum either means hes Counterclaiming or he knew he was flipping scum because he is his buddy.

Which one you want, textcat?

No, it's not either or. Not Mafia seemed confident that Gob was scum, but that does not mean that he was actually confident or had any additional info that the rest of us didn't have. A few of us were fairly confident that Gob was scum.

[texcat]

I have no idea what to respond to. First NotMafia claims he tracked me to Klingon. Now he's claiming role cop and that I'm a mafia doctor. Role cop is generally a mafia role, doctor is not. I can't make out why NotMafia keeps making all of these odd claims. Is he going to continue until he finds something that sticks?

Why on earth would the mafia need a doctor? we've seen no sign of a town killing power.

I don't know what "texcat is a mller to the gunsmith, and s scum" means.

[texcat]

Wanderer?? I was expecting at least some thoughts from you. Why the vote? Do you believe one or more of NotMafia's claims?

[texcat]

Yes, of course, I know what a gunsmith is, but what is "a mller to the gunsmith"? And is that why you're voting for me?

Even if you believe that NotMafia is a role cop, what makes you think that the mafia needs a doctor in this setup? NotMafia is not currently claiming alignment cop, but give him a couple of days and he probably will.

[texcat]

I didn't, but doctor fits with mafia in this set-up, not with town

I'd like you to explain this please, because I don't see it.

[texcat]

If you know what a gunsmith is you should be aware of what that means.

Well, I might make some guesses what it means, but why won't NM explain it? Why won't he explain what a "a mller to the gunsmith" has to do with being a doctor? Why won't he explain why the mafia needs a doctor in this setup when we don't seem to have a vig?

[texcat]

LOL. If I were a doctor and visited Klingon, he'd still be alive, wouldn't he?

You still haven't explained why mafia needs a doctor. I understand why they might need and have a godfather, but that wasn't what you claimed I was.

[texcat]

And you still have not explained a darn thing.

[texcat]

I'm town role cop, my n1 result was for a Gunsmith, so I knew gob was lying as a full cop would be unbalanced, inspected texcat last night and got doctor, texcat is a mller to the gunsmith, and s scum

In this claim scenario, you have 2 results, gunsmith and doctor. What made you think that the gunsmith was town and the doctor was scum?

He doesnt have to.

He counterclaimed scum.

Thus confirmed town

LOL. You don't think it's possible that they are both scum???? If you've already decided that your teammate is going down, and you've hopped on the bus, what better way for town cred than to counterclaim them as well. Especially with a soft claim that you can change later into a tracker, watcher, role cop, whatever.

[texcat]

How on earth did I get to L-1? This is ridiculous.

I am town Doctor.

I have no idea whether NotMafia is, in fact, a role cop, but he did get my role correct. I've already said that he did not track or watch me visit Klingon, although I did consider protecting Klingon, but instead chose Hopkirk to protect both nights.

NotMafia is most assuredly scum and I think Salamence is probably his partner. NotMafia may be the scum role cop, or he, at least has access to the scum role cop's results. If he were a town role cop, there is no effing way that he would assume that the doctor in this setup is scum. Why would he expose the doctor if he were town? Why would he think that the scum needs a doctor? Who is this alleged scum doctor supposed to be protecting the scum from? A scum doctor might make sense in multi-ball or if we had a SK, but I don't think that we do, and I see no reason why NotMafia would think that we do.

NotMafia has fake claimed a multitude of roles. Why would town do that? He has not explained anything despite my repeated questions. He has just said over and over that I am scum without any kind of explanation. And town fell for that???? Good grief.

I agree that town seems to have too many roles. I don't know how a JOAT got into the mix, but I am sure that the role cop is scum. And I am sure that if there is a gunsmith that he is town. Scum would have no more use for a gunsmith than they have for a doc.

VOTE: NotMafia

Town deserves to lose this game with the kind of logic that got me to L-1.

[texcat]

Who is the doctor protecting the scum from?

[texcat]

Where did the JOAT come from? And I know that the Rolecop is scum!!!! So that leaves only a doctor and a gunsmith with town.

[texcat]

Why not give the mafia a godfather then? A godfather would fool the gunsmith. Why give them a useless doc?

[texcat]

And you still haven't answered the question of why the doctor should be scum rather than the gunsmith.

[texcat]

What is stupid about my play? I am the doctor. What would you have me do?

[texcat]

* I am the TOWN doctor. And none of this town deserves protection from NotMafia.

[texcat]

No one has told me who the doctor is protecting scum from.

[texcat]

No one has told me who the doctor is protecting scum from.

Your buddies from the JOAT's vigshot.

Thanks. But sorry I am still TOWN doctor.

If you were role cop and found the doctor, would your first assumption be that you had found scum?

[texcat]

Why did you assume that the doc was scum, instead of the gunsmith? The gunsmith would have the same power to detect the JOAT vig.

Nevermind, don't even bother not answering that. I know the answer. It's because you are scum. And you know that both are town, but your priority is killing the doc, not the lame gunsmith who is probably one of the jokers voting for me. You are so determined to kill the doctor that you tried all manner of fake claims in order to do so.

[texcat]

Sorry that you think my defense is weak.

Of course a mafia doc is hidden from a gunsmith, but so what? Why is he a doc, rather than a godfather? A mafia doc only makes sense in multiball or with a SK. Then his multi abilities make sense. I note that one of the JOAT' s abilities is cop. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a godfather to foil his ability as well?

Plus we only have a scum' s statement that we actually have a gunsmith. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that were a total fiction.

I'm surprised at townies that aren't willing to give me the benefit of doubt. I'm surprised at townies that are so accepting of scum's total bs.