Micro 508: MafiaMafiaNotMafia (Bins' Soup Sucks)

[Edosurist]

I love how my everyone in my clique has a gif for an avatar.

Conclusion: We're all town.

Actually though, I'm 90% certain NotMaf is DefMaf
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Edosurist]

Edo, why is Lucky mafia

He's not. Not_Mafia is.

[Edosurist]

Because in his two posts, he hasn't placed a vote.
In Lucky's one post, he also hasn't.

That makes NM twice as anti-town as Lucky. Ergo, he's the scum.
I guess you could say this doesn't make Lucky

not

scum, but considering that NM is, Lucky isn't.

[Edosurist]

@chamber
You got any reasoning for that vote?

[Edosurist]

So I guess my scum plan is accomplished because I've successfully convinced you guys that I'm a VI.

Also, I'm willing to buy TIP's explanation for the "slip."

[Edosurist]

edo you are not the one to be asking people to explain their votes, considering that you did not explain your NM vote initially (and the reason you gave is LOL)

I mean, I guess if you want me to explicitly say:

Hey guys, I'm making an RVS vote. This is RVS. This vote means absolutely nothing and I have no reasoning behind it.

I can. But I prefer this method.

[Edosurist]

pope, i don't care if you do it every game, but please stop doing it if you do, it's a terrible first impression

I feel like we're dealing with a no-fun-and-games hardass over here.

[Edosurist]

I'm glad to see that chamber hasn't explained his vote on Parama yet. I'll give him time. His last post was less than 10 minutes ago, after all.

[Edosurist]

Cool. Thought there might've actually been something behind that vote.

I like this. Keep it going.

[Edosurist]

Just humor me and believe it was.

[Edosurist]

Spoiler: Durrrr

Because in his two posts, he hasn't placed a vote.
In Lucky's one post, he also hasn't.

That makes NM twice as anti-town as Lucky. Ergo, he's the scum.
I guess you could say this doesn't make Lucky

not

scum, but considering that NM is, Lucky isn't.

So I guess my scum plan is accomplished because I've successfully convinced you guys that I'm a VI.

Also, I'm willing to buy TIP's explanation for the "slip."

edo you are not the one to be asking people to explain their votes, considering that you did not explain your NM vote initially (and the reason you gave is LOL)

I mean, I guess if you want me to explicitly say:

Hey guys, I'm making an RVS vote. This is RVS. This vote means absolutely nothing and I have no reasoning behind it.

I can. But I prefer this method.

pope, i don't care if you do it every game, but please stop doing it if you do, it's a terrible first impression

I feel like we're dealing with a no-fun-and-games hardass over here.

Just humor me and believe it was.

I would hope that all these posts are enough to assume that I wasn't actually serious with my logic for why NM is scum.
VOTE: Lucky2u
I'm down for this.

[Edosurist]

Give me a moment. I'll come back to this.

[Edosurist]

Sorry, been having computer problems I'm trying to deal with. I'll just swap to my phone, I think.

[Edosurist]

I actually peg my group for the all town group. I'm keeping my vote on Lucky because between him and NM, he's the one I'm least sure about.

Order, Scum>maybe scum>town

Rainbow Unicat>InflatablePie>Bins

Parama>TheIrishPope>Chamber

Lucky2U>Not_Mafia>Edosurist

[Edosurist]

Wait a minute. I screwed that up.
The second group should be this:

TheIrishPope>Chamber>Parama

[Edosurist]

@Lucky
Do you think chamber is scum?

[Edosurist]

hmm i just thought of another strong argument for not trying to figure out which group is all-town today but i can't say anymore until day 2 rolls around

Cool, I saw this Parama. I'm curious why this is such a strong argument that I now have to be scum for stating that I think my group is NotMafia.

Either way, I changed my mind:

Given the last few pages, I am less sure about that group.

I'd wager between TiP and Chamber for different reasons.

Despite being a dick, I think para is mostly town. The rainbow cat is probably scum in his group. He fence sat in 126 as a disclaimer and I don't like him blatantly asking for direction on reads for you and NM. seems like he is avoiding taking a stance.

Dafuq is this? I asked you if chamber is scum, and you gave me info on everybody else EXCEPT for him.
I'm glad to see you have reasoning here. Mind sharing your reasons?

[Edosurist]

And anticipating that you're gonna ask why I thought my group was the NotMafia, I thought Lucky's touchiness around you indicated that he was town. I've changed my mind since then.

[Edosurist]

@Mod

If you decide not to lynch, the mafia will choose the lynch.

Can we get a timer on this?
I will be V/LA from Aug 7 -13.

[Edosurist]

declaring your group as the all-town group undercuts any shred of scumhunting you do today, because if you think your group is all town, how are you going to push for a scumlynch?

I don't understand your point. How would seeing my group as town would change the quality of my other reads? And even if I did think I was in the town group, I'm not stupid and I'm still gonna vote for the scummiest person, as I did.

as well it's buddying to your groupmates, and it's an easy thing to declare without really substantiating it.

I think "buddying" is such a moot point here. Someone could then argue that anytime you call someone town, you're buddying them, and therefore you're scum. And I guess you're right about the second part. Once you asked me to explain, I did end up changing my mind.

declaring your group as the town group when scum also means you can push on the actual all-town group easier bcuz your justification is that your group has no scum, so the other two groups do. and if all three people in one group flip town you can fall back on the "well i thought my group was town so the scum had to be in that group, but i was wrong" excuse pretty easily

This is possible, assuming that I'm scum. You can't assume that I'm scum then justify your read by saying I did something that "when scum" would be scummy.

and yes i did notice that both scum in the game i read did this too, but i was already figuring it was a scum a scum move to do, especially day 1, even before they both pulled the trigger on it

I feel like this still hasn't been properly elaborated on...

really declaring any one group as the all-town group d1 is a bad idea but it's the worst when it's your own group. i see literally no town benefit to declaring it even if you believe it, because now i can't take any scumhunting you do seriously, especially if one single post is going to make you go back on that opinion. on the flip side there's a lot of scum benefit for declaring your own group to be the town group.

I have multiple issues here.
1. Again, I still don't understand why it's a bad idea. Nor do I understand why that makes any scumhunting moot. I guess I can concede that whatever this bad idea really is would be most detrimental when it's your own group, but that's only because I don't even know what it is.
2. Would the town benefit not be that you're talking up your opinions?
3. And why are you expecting that reads be so confident D1? I think if something changes your mind, it should be said.

Basically, please elaborate.

[Edosurist]

Spoiler: Post 213

if you read both other players in your group as town, you aren't going to be lynching one of them on suspicion of being scum. because you read them as town. if you do lynch them, it'll be because they're "less town" and not "scum".

I understand that, and I don't see this as a problem.

something is scummy when it primarily benefits scum and rarely if ever benefits town. it's not "when scum, then scummy" it's "scummy, thus scum". the point i was making is how it benefits scum and doesn't benefit town to call your groupmates scummy.

I think you meant "not scummy" in that last word there, but I see where you're coming from in general here.

if you don't understand why announcing a towngroup day 1 is bad when

we're lynching in all three groups anyways so there is literally zero reason to figure out which group is all-town on d1

then i don't know how i'm ever going to make you understand the rest of my argument though

Of course every group is lynching. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But if you think your entire group is town, for the sake of giving your reads and having other people better understand where you're coming from, you should state that.

Post 216 - I got you now. This wasn't all immediately apparent from what you said earlier.

[Edosurist]

I'd like to see more from the other guys in my group.

A reads list, more specifically.

[Edosurist]

@NM - Did I not ask you for a reads list?

I think Bins is capable of not lol-hammering, so I feel safe with my vote.

[Edosurist]

though in all honesty i'd prefer one of the lucky voters to unvote (NM please?)
but yeah can we not be at L-1

Why do you prefer it be us? Would it not be the same effect if you were to unvote?

[Edosurist]

Given the last few pages, I am less sure about that group.

I'd wager between TiP and Chamber for different reasons.

Despite being a dick, I think para is mostly town. The rainbow cat is probably scum in his group. He fence sat in 126 as a disclaimer and I don't like him blatantly asking for direction on reads for you and NM. seems like he is avoiding taking a stance.

Dafuq is this? I asked you if chamber is scum, and you gave me info on everybody else EXCEPT for him.

I'm glad to see you have reasoning here. Mind sharing your reasons?

dafuq is this response? you asked if chamber is scum and I answered that I was between him and TiP in that group. As it is impossible for BOTH to be scum, this is a relevant answer to make. why are you misrepresenting my answer as dodging here?

I was referring to "for different reasons." What are you reasons? I'm trying to pry some sort of analysis out of you.[/quote]

And anticipating that you're gonna ask why I thought my group was the NotMafia, I thought Lucky's touchiness around you indicated that he was town. I've changed my mind since then.

funny how you changing your mind happened around the same time that it was pointed out that claiming our group the all town group was bad...

I think I already admitted that I changed my mind because Parama asked me to explain, and on review, I didn't read you as strongly as I did before.

I also asked you for a reads list earlier. I'm still waiting on that.

[Edosurist]

Hi guys, I'm back.

Will post later.

[Edosurist]

Sorry I didn't get to this. I was tired and not in the mood to look over this game.

Looking now.

[Edosurist]

I think I already admitted that I changed my mind because Parama asked me to explain, and on review, I didn't read you as strongly as I did before.

one quick scan of your iso later:

LIAR. you did not change your mind for that reason. you did not say even the slightest indication of anything similar. you quoted one post, made some confusing accusation, and then never mentioned it again.

OK, regardless of whatever I said earlier, this is my actual reason.

[Edosurist]

Spoiler: Fat Rainbow Unicat quote. Here for context.

anyway lots of words to say you're null on everybody (and this reads list looks so different from my own that i wonder if we're viewing the game from the same alignment)

his reads list is:

town:
himself presumably
bins

maaaaaaaaybe town:
edosurist, tip

maaaaaaaaaaaybe town idek:
pie
camber

the 2015s are too good at mafia let's lynch them:
rainbow unicat

maaaaaaaaybe scum but idek:
lucky

maaaaaaybe scum:
parama

I'd give him a bit more credit than you give him here. This is how I read it:

Bins - Town
I-Pie - Lean town
Runicat - Null, would lynch
Edos - Town
Lucky - Null
Parama - Lean scum
chamber - Null
TIP - Null

@NM - Still, you have 2/3 of Group 1 as town, the third as null/unwilling to read currently, and IIRC, you have our group as the all town group currently. This is pretty thin.

[Edosurist]

My scum picks:
Pie
TIP
NM

Yah, I'm down to vote NM.
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Edosurist]

Feeling more comfortable with rainbow lynch as their push because "I want to policy lynch them for being a good player" is just an oversimplification of what I've said,

which I've explained twice

, yet I'm still being pushed on this with no attempt to engage

I only see one explanation of this:

That's a simplification of what I'm saying, I'm saying I have 2 null reads, one of which I think I can read more easily in future

I see 4 null reads. Where is the disconnect?

[Edosurist]

Are you still not going to give your reads of people not in your group?

[Edosurist]

Hey Group 1
Can you guys just park your votes somewhere? I think town's apathy would be helped by opening up the game to everyone. The groups discourage scumhunting and makes everyone feel like they need to wait on the others in their group... at least that's what I'm feeling.

[Edosurist]

And I meant 2 within that group

"That group"
No you didn't. Which is "that group"? Plot was talking about you having 7 null reads and you responded by saying you had 2.

[Edosurist]

@NM

Bins - Town
I-Pie - Lean town
Runicat - Null, would lynch
Edos - Town
Lucky - Null
Parama - Lean scum
chamber - Null
TIP - Null

Is this not your current read list?

[Edosurist]

Ok, I messed up the order of events from memory.
What was post 276 responding to?

I'm voting you for an underwhelming reads list and an underwhelming demeanor.

Are you asking why I didn't point it out at the time? Mainly cuz I wasn't reading the game then. It stood out when I went back a few pages and reread.

[Edosurist]

Why do you have Lucky pegged for scum now when he was null to you earlier?
Why is TIP town?
And Parama?

[Edosurist]

He's just coasting, coaxing my lyjch along, hoping to sneak in to day 2

To be fair, I feel like you've been doing much of the same. And how has this been enough to change your read from null to scum? He's your only strong scumread, and this looks like fairly weak reasoning for it.

What I should be trying to say is: Why is Lucky, of all people, your single confident scumread? He arguably has the least content. You'd think that with all that Uni (or anyone else) has been posting, you'd be able to be more confident in that, one way or the other.

He looks like he's genuinely trying to figure out the game, he's capable of this as scum, but

I've like his read progression and found it marries up with some of mine

Yah. It matches because you only have two reads scummier than null and 78% of the players are town, so freakin everyone else is town to you guys. And of course, you guys disagree on those scum slots, so I don't even know why you'd bother mentioning this.

[Edosurist]

Deadline is August 17th at 8am Central Standard Time.

August 17, 08:00 GMT-5 or in (expired on 2015-08-17 08:00:00)

[Edosurist]

Actually, Parama had a completely valid point.
You have been lurking. He's not being a dick.

[Edosurist]

Bins, can you please end us?

[Edosurist]

Dragonite sucks anyways. While it is much bulkier than Salamence and Chomp, it can't OHKO much without multiple boosts; however, multiscale and the weakness policy make for good sweeping opportunities. I have a rain type one with Aqua Tail, Thunder, Hurricane, and Outrage. It's fine, but no match to my Chomp's Swords Dance and Focus Band, or my Salamence's outrage dragon dance setup.

What's this have to do with anyone? Nothing. Parama is dead.

Troll mod is troll.

People I would like to discuss today: chamber and Lucky.

chamber is the only one left in Group 2, obviously.

I'm just making statements right now, I'll actually put some thought into this a bit later today.

[Edosurist]

I'm more inclined to say that because in this game (which we've been mentioning fairly frequently) the scum killed in the all-town group, scum was more likely to risk killing within their group. Let me know if I'm blatantly wrong here.

I'm also going to mention that I totally didn't realize scum had daytalk until just now.
Take that fwiw.

I'll be back later.

[Edosurist]

I checked the previous game. Didnt say that anywhere here, though.

@Lucky
I feel like chamber is too obvious of a mislynch to actually be a mislynch. Maybe it's paranoia.

[Edosurist]

Chamber: Any reads on anybody outside of your group?
That's particularly important, especially since you're the only the only one left from your group.

[Edosurist]

My group is the last I would have guessed as the all town one so I really need to look at things again given that information.

Can you at least tell us what your reads

were

at all during D1?

[Edosurist]

@Mod:

Do the mafia have daytalk?

[Edosurist]

@Mod:

Do the mafia have daytalk?

No comment

... This isn't a bastard setup. Shouldn't we be allowed to know these things?

[Edosurist]

Fair enough.

Still waiting on literally anyone to post something.

[Edosurist]

chamber, you are scum. Now explain to me otherwise.

And please give us your reads in your next post or I will vote for you. No exceptions.

[Edosurist]

Are you just going to lurk or are you going to try to do something about this. Nobody is active in this game, and we've been waiting far too long for anything from chamber.

Why do you think chamber is too much of a setup?

[Edosurist]

Who of Bins/Unicat is scum, then?

[Edosurist]

Hi Bins. Just confirming I'm not scum with you.

[Edosurist]

Cool. Bins and I aren't scum together.

[Edosurist]

Now that that's decided, Bins is right. You shouldn't be voting like that in LYLO.

I'm really still waiting on chamber at this point.

I'm still thinking Lucky and chamber, although chamber less so cuz Lucky is voting him.

[Edosurist]

I see it as chamber-Bins team or Lucky-Unicat.

[Edosurist]

ikkcoocodosllcldls

Dafuq is this?

Lucky, are you phone posting?

[Edosurist]

VOTE: Rainbow Unicat

[Edosurist]

UNVOTE:

That was a pretty obvious attempt to bait an attempted quicklynch. I just wasted 15 minutes of my life.

[Edosurist]

The fact that you were watching that whole time and only posted once is unsettling, though.

[Edosurist]

I'm like 80% certain that Lucky is scum.
That just now and his flip-flopping today has just been erratic.

[Edosurist]

The fact that you were watching that whole time and only posted once is unsettling, though.

Huh?

Check the timestamps on when I finally unvoted Unicat and when you posted "it's ok." You said you were phone posting, but you must've refreshed right at that moment. I'm saying the timing is a bit coincidental.

[Edosurist]

Ya, I know it's weaksauce. I'm still 80% certain you're scum, though. Based on probability and what Bins said.

[Edosurist]

Because I don't think it's too relevant.

Why would you have a vote on the field if you aren't comfortable enough to take your eyes off of it?

And are you accusing me of being scum here?

[Edosurist]

From Bins' POV,
Assuming that chamber and Lucky aren't scumbuddies, scum has to either be Unicat or me.

[Edosurist]

Under the same assumption from Unicat's POV,
Scum has to either be chamber or Bins

[Edosurist]

From chamber's POV, scum is Lucky or Unicat

[Edosurist]

^Can you quote this for me?

[Edosurist]

Not scum with Unicat

[Edosurist]

We know you're not scum with Bins already. Same Group.

[Edosurist]

Ok, this is good.

Now we know to chamber, Lucky HAS to be scum.

So it's one or the other.

[Edosurist]

In short, chamber and Lucky aren't scum together.

[Edosurist]

As a side note, nobody should now feel paranoid about Lucky voting chamber, or chamber inevitably voting Lucky.
They are 100% not the same alignment.

I'll see what else I can draw from this.

[Edosurist]

Edos POV

chamber - Lucky
chamber - Bins
chamber - Unicat
Lucky - Bins
Lucky - Unicat

Bins POV

chamber - Edos
chamber - Lucky
chamber - Unicat
Unicat - Lucky

Unicat POV

chamber - Edos
chamber - Lucky
chamber - Bins
Bins - Lucky

Lucky POV

chamber - Edos
chamber - Bins
chamber - Unicat

chamber POV

Lucky - Bins
Lucky - Unicat

[Edosurist]

Somebody let me know if I did something wrong. If not, I'll move forward with this list.

[Edosurist]

I don't think we should necessarily lynch chamber yet, but today's lynch truly is down to him or Lucky.

[Edosurist]

In short, chamber and Lucky aren't scum together.

Btw this isn't necessarily true. If someone dosagrees with my new assessment, please speak up.

[Edosurist]

Nice page top, Sala

I'm just going to say that Lucky needs to convince me I'm not scum, or he's getting my vote today.

That is all.

[Edosurist]

@Unicat & Bins
You guys should also look into each other. If you determine that the other is town, chamber has to be scum. If you determine that chamber is town, the other has to be scum.

Same goes for me but Lucky/chamber. Unfortunately, I don't exactly townread any of them.

[Edosurist]

Paranoia suggests Edo could've copy and posted his list from the scum PT, but...So much wifom.

If it makes you feel any better, I copy-pasted it from a google spreadsheet. I'm not gonna share this spreadsheet because (1) it has my email address on it, and (2) you could possibly check the time that edits were made on it to prove I made the spreadsheet yesterday and NOT during N1, which would be an outside method of proving my innocence.

So instead, I'll just give you some WIFOM and say yes, I did, in fact, copy it from my scum PT with chamber.

In all serious, I'm going to give the game another read-through to see if I can discern something.

[Edosurist]

EBWOP:
In all seriousness, I'm going to give the game another read-through to see if I can discern something from the interactions. By this, I mainly mean ISOs

[Edosurist]

Is anybody online right now?

[Edosurist]

I'm just going to say that Lucky needs to convince me I'm not scum, or he's getting my vote today.

Edit: Lucky needs to convince me he's not scum. Or convince me that chamber IS scum.

Either way, I'd like to see what you have to say.

[Edosurist]

no i don't, town never needs to convince others they are town. if they need to do that, they aren't town, or they are talking to scum. the latter is the case here, as I've said earlier, you are scum with chamber. let's hammer this and go into the final day please.

You have at least two players here insisting that you explain why you're town. They can't both be scum.

At least prove to us why chamber is scum.

[Edosurist]

I mean, c'mon. If you're town, you should be livid that we're about to lynch you in LYLO.

I'm around if people have questions or what not. Will give the lucky/bins and lucky/hydra interactions another once over later.

"Another"
What did you draw from the first one?

[Edosurist]

God. How much longer do I have to wait to place my vote?

I'm trying to give everyone a fair chance, but it's just so tempting.

[Edosurist]

So, I'm 90% certain that Lucky is scum, and I'm 65% certain that Unicat is his partner.

Unicat's fence-sitting on this is making it so much more apparent to me.

[Edosurist]

I want to see a Lucky-Unicat interaction.

Lucky, get on here and convince Unicat that Bins is scum.

[Edosurist]

It wasn't particularly conclusive or I wouldn't be offering to go over everything again. I talked about the things that stood out most in thread.

Well, have you had a chance to look over it yet?

In other news, this is effectively a prod dodge. I'm waiting for Lucky-Unicat interaction to happen.

[Edosurist]

Alright. What are your reservations against Bins as scum. For me it's become fairly obvious.

What I'm trying to get you to do is post your case. You haven't done so yet. You keep saying that it's "obvious" that you're "convinced." Please explain your case.

[Edosurist]

Intent to hammer.

Lucky. Get your final word on Bins in.

[Edosurist]

Yeah, my reads were pretty off here.

GG guys.

[Edosurist]

@Mod: I demand to see the mafia daytalk thread.

[Edosurist]

No Plot. I demand to see the daytalk thread.

I'd like to see the dead thread where Parama rages at us for not putting more pressure on chamber.

[Edosurist]

It doesn't.

I think I've learned my lesson not to let people get by on lurking. In the recent past, other people's lurking had only benefited me, so I ended up being pretty lax about that here.

Maybe if Lucky had lurked too I would've shut up about him and forced chamber to actually do something.