Star Trek Deep Space Nine Season 1 Mafia(game over!)

[Suzune]

Wow, almost ninety pages. That is a lot of catching up to do. I will try to read it all and then post anything I notice. Just to be clear, it is quite early in the morning and my insomnia is keeping me up. However, if I do not make it to the posting part this morning fear not, I went to work and will be back to post later. Sorry for any inconvenience that is. Finally if there are any lingering questions that Jamerius was supposed to answer please let me know~

[Suzune]

I thought you said I would not need universe knowledge to sub in to this game...well the 89 pages come first.

[Suzune]

I thought you said I would not need universe knowledge to sub in to this game...well the 89 pages come first.

You'll only need that link to check out a flavor claim.

Thank you both of you. I got nervous for a minute.

[Suzune]

Okay, I am at page 51. However at the current state of game I would place my vote on Narninian. I have never seen someone last so long into a game that has over 50+ pages and not have any reads. He constantly says over and over that he has no reads. How is that even possible, and why does he continually able to get away with it? At this point, and with the number of subs this game has had I understand that is is quite difficult, but I find it unbelievable. If the town does not come together then they do not win. He is not supporting the town and that draws my attention.

Vote: Narinian

[Suzune]

Okay so not that I have finished reading the topic. I would like to comment on a few things that I noticed along the way.

Should RIP be lynched?
In my opinion, No. While the case on him was good and his low activity were well planned. I believe that his frustration was real and that leads me to believe the claim was real. People do not tend to get that emotional about a game unless they have something to lose. A scum would have merely tried to walk it off, there has been enough trains get run off course in a couple of posts in this game that the town mafia could have easily fixed the situation if need be.

Should CDB be lynched?
Honestly, he was my early town read. He was the first person that I put a little town start next to in my notes. It was not until after everyone started discussing their scumminess that I began to wonder. Reviewing his ISO, I do not follow the reason why you at voting for him and at this current moment would not put a lot of stock on a scum flip for that position.

I began to wonder---
All of the same people are always talking. Chances are that most of the townies are the in actives over the mafia. This I think is easily supported by the number of trains that run off track or suddenly get changed.

Town reads as they currently stand
ChannelDelibird, Sinsun, Peacebringer (who became Sala), RIP

People I would say are leaning scum,
Senator, Narininan, Riabi

Uncertain of Klingoncelt- I was actually sure he was town on day one, but as day three progresses I am becoming less certain of his towniness.

[Suzune]

Anyone who did not make it on to the reads chart, I am still in need of studying them. I will do it as soon as possible though~

[Suzune]

we all pretty much know by now, wanting the BP alive is a heavy scum motive.

I was not there then, but I will happily agree that I would have actively opposed the idea of lynching the Princess claim on the belief it was a true claim.

I would guess, based on the reading of the topic that it was based on many other things. It seems like the BP was kind of pain and was constantly posting and no one could get a word in edgewise. Therefore, I think the situation also contributed to the action. It was still a wrong choice, but I think there were other intentions.

[Suzune]

Senator, While I believe it is just your playstyle, you behavior does not scream town to me. A good town needs to work together in order to solve its problems and analyze data. However, telling people they are wrong or their ideas are stupid does not breed camaraderie or the need for anyone to agree with you. It was the first note that I wrote on you during my note taking catch up phase. Here is a good explain of what I mean: post 1315

You seem to dwell on the fact that the town suffered a double night. While it was indeed unfortunate, you use it as a constant crutch when complaining. A good townie would have given it up and looked towards today. Certainly there must have been some information roles that could benifit the town. Not drawing attention to that means you are simply using the reminder of an unfortunate situation to damped the mood.

You also post many posts in succession that are sometimes unrelated ideas or personal gripes. This does not improve the moral of the team nor does it allow for much posting. It is actually a tactic I have seen many scum use in order to keep the pages flowing making it less likely for the townies to want to read a large number of posts to catch up meaning that important plot related things often get lost.

You rely overly on meta to clear you name. I have never played with you before, this would be our first meeting, however I would not read to see how you play in another game to read your character. If you cannot prove your alignment here in this game, then I see no reason we should back log you to figure it out. Evidence: post 1371

For all of the talking you do, you do not build many cases but instead tell people the flaws in their own. I am not certain that counts as scum hunting

Although that being said you did make some good points: notably here: post 1375. Addressing buddying is important, but only if we are going to address all the buddying that is happening. Also if someone agrees with you about something I do not consider that buddying because having a similar opinion does not mean I am following yours. Sorry, some of those yous were yous in general not directly attacking you.

P-Edi: Ah! Kling, I am so sorry. I even know that. I will try not to do it again. Again so sorry I put your gender wrong again.

[Suzune]

Senator the number of your impressive posts that are griping about the flow of the game or the players playing it are astounding.

You've come foreward admitting Im playing to a descernable playstyle.

I apologise, but I do not understand this comment.

p-edit: I think you scum behavior is pretty typical of scum. If that is using wiform to get there then so be it. If the post is unclear of the direction I was heading, I apologise, but I see scum intent.

[Suzune]

And again we come back to the point that scum do a thing, so its scummy?

I appear to have failed grammatically, by number of impressive posts, I was directing to the large number of posts that you have in this game.

I can see no clear motive behind your actions other then to point of the failing of other sometimes. Scum to do need to actively scumhunt. They can simply input their opinion and guide the town in the right direction. You lack of obvious scumhunting and rather you uncanny ability to put holes in people's arguments seems to me, that you are rather discrediting ideas rather then place new ones on that table. post 1315, post 1321, post 1406,post 1407

Rather, I am not saying you did not contribute some important ideas to this game. Just that your play is scummy and that there is a clear difference between helping the town and remarking on town events.

p-edit: Why could all of those comments, not go in the same post. Or wait for the coming answer first? Sir, I just met you and I have just read the game. I was not there to experience it, just to read the aftermath. Therefore, yes an important part of the game is lost, but I am using what i have to explain to you why I think you are scum. It is not smoke an mirrors, nor is it a case against you. Merely my current observations of your playstyle put you in the leaning scum pile.

[Suzune]

In your world, scum dont have to scumhunt

Do not put words in my mouth. I believe I said that scum do not need to scumhunt actively, not that they do not have to scumhunt at all. Which means that do not have to do it right off the bat and can instead use their already acquired knowledge to poke holes in arguments and sort of steer the vote. Hunting for power roles and hunting for scum are different.

There is nothing wrong with a theory being the starting point of a case. Recall, I mentioned it was not a case it was just my observation to this point and when I do choose to vote for you I will have a well established case.

While I do realise our playstyle seems to clash, that is not to make to say you are not making your own generalizations on it.

p-edit, yes I am caught up. My posts evidence is more from day three then day one though you are correct. A majority of day one was very different then the flow of day 3.

[Suzune]

I happen to agree with your opinions on Narninian. All of his posts since June 10th have been lacking and I do not see the reason for this unvote as particularly meaningful. Sweeping in a the last moment to vote RIP was also not a particular townie move since he did not provide a reason and sheeping generally speaking is not a fantastic reason to do anything.

[Suzune]

The answer is my scum games and conservative towngames. this isnt about a wagon on me, and it isnt about there only being 2 bloody days left.

i thought you said you did. It use mets to defend you game position?

[Suzune]

I must say, mafiascum is on an entirely different level as far as the game goes.

I find people here are much more aggressive then anywhere else. Just keep up and take good notes you will be fine.

[Suzune]

The answer is my scum games and conservative towngames. this isnt about a wagon on me, and it isnt about there only being 2 bloody days left.

i thought you said you did. It use mets to defend you game position?

Support. Meta is always second string.

I dont call on it unless I think it will have an effect. Dave has played with me.

so what? Are you claiming Dave has a fantastic memory or they you have not evolved as a player since then? Or perhaps both? I guess it is not a exclusive thing.

[Suzune]

Why are you interested in focusing on what could, when properly distorted, be taken as decietful?

I am merely suggesting that telling some to base their read on you on past gameplay is kid of a decietful tactic because assuming you have changed since then, you could merely be using an old tactic to hide you alignment.

[Suzune]

Can we get votes placed? Id like not to have to do the deadline shuffle.

while we are not often in agreement I agree I would not like to have a last minute lynch.

[Suzune]

Can I get a summary on Narn?

junp back a couple of pages, while not the best summary there is the reason I am voting him.

[Suzune]

its not like I don't have precedent for a senator lynch (having voted him earlier) but not gonna lie, him being the biggest wagon beside me is certainly a factor.
That being said, I wouldn't be voting him if I didn't think he had a good chance of being scum based on behavior.

At least share what you think makes him scum. there is a strong discussion going on about his perhaps scumminess, you cannot even make a case or an observation...this lack of decisiveness is strange.

[Suzune]

Tbh I kinda hate this setup here. Claiming character names and no punishment is so bad that's not even fun or challenge me mentally to play.
I'm a conf town by no means of my own or my play.
We seriously need to change that. What's the point of playing detective when we just looking for who has a bad claim?
We just lost s game I got killed early after calling out scum. But instead scum had solid claims and completely own the town. No of them died I think. Sad really
Is a shame of a game and we just call it mafia.

it is the risk that comes into play when you use character names. People can take from the names to solve he game. Short of saying they the names are useless only the abilities count flavour games that use names sometimes unravel into this.

[Suzune]

Can like Sala and RIP not count or something?

not count for what?

[Suzune]

I believe looking at the situation the sala kill was the only one that the scum could have made given the situation from yesterday, so sadly I am not surprised. They could not risk killing someone on another train because that would be like confirming the other train was wise. So in order to keep in fighting high they limited the control of the town. I suppose from that perspective it was a smart move. It would then be wise to look at those not on the train though as I imagine it may lead to more evidence. Sorry the tired thoughts of my insomnia. I will check with he final decisions that led to that vote train later in the day.

[Suzune]

CDB has nine lives and lived through a doc claim. (Yes he didnt claim doc, but would a doc claim doc?
I unvoted him for his claim, but I don't think thats enough for me now.

...what?

To both lines - I need more explanation of that.

Basically mirroring what you've said. There were a lot of counterwagons/defense of CDB yesterday and I think that was scum's doing. He also lived through the night after claiming a character that would be the clear/only logical choice to be the doctor. I know he claimed a vanilla townie, but I'm thinking that is increasingly unlikely with 2 heavy negative town roles and a townie role already outed.

So you're saying you bought his claim yesterday because you thought he was saying *wink*I'm not a Doc*wink* and that, therefore, scum not killing him equates to him being scum?

yup, you've summed up the logic of a factor I have.
Its obviously not rocksolid by itself.

Clearly he would have lived through the night regardless of whether or not he claimed correctly. Everyone likes to be against him that means that the mafia need no kill a good target that causes distress regardless of claim.

[Suzune]

i lied i'm in the middle of reading a couple things instead of doing the smart thing and just going to bed already but I want to point out that i'm p sure that senator (aka confirmed town) thought that kling was scum so maybe that's a thing to do some research on (sorry if there's a claim or something obvious i missed)

k no more posting for me tonight

Me mostly, but he suspected everyone, and I do mean

everyone

else as well. He didn't have a case on anybody.

He was being ridiculous.

So what? I did not realise ridiculousness meant he was not to be taken seriously. You do not think a single one of his claims was real? Even being over paranoid stems from some small truth. If you are not going to look back at it I certainly will.

[Suzune]

Okay, Thor, we can talk~

I have no vote on CDB bird simply because I do not think he is scum. Easy plain as day. Now sure looking through his ISO I can see why you would think that because he pushed so hard for the lynch of the beloved princess on day one. But compared to everyone here, he is the only ones with a reads list post 1798, two actually, post 2292, which honestly is a pretty townie thing. His claim was pushed and he was able to defend it well. Plus, I believe his frustration was genuine meaning that he was indeed town here post 2315.

I have noticed Thor that you have a habit of shooting down other peoples ideas or writing entire novels for why their plans are wrong. Not saying that is bad, just that you are not listening either.

I thin you reasoning following why CDB must be scum is poor. I have played more games then I have played on this site and honestly, I know as well as everyone else I am sure, that you leave pieces on the board that will cause problems regardless of whether or not they are powerful roles simply because they might get lynched. As long as random annoying person is still there then there is a better chance the townies do the job of the mafia. So I think you claim that he must be scum because he did not die holds no weight and is entirely impracticable.

[Suzune]

That and having activity directly connected to the amount of push on him, and a dearth of scumhunting, and the Hider theory - yes.
Honestly, I didn't even realize he was a pusher for the BP - and I'm not actually willing to call that a scumtell, but him being on both lynch wagons that were both on town is a pretty valid reason to flip him also.

How many other people were on both lynch wagons?

Day 1:

Narninian

,

ChannelDelibird

,

Sinsun1

, HostileIntent,Saint,

Titus

,

KlingonCelt

, Zabing12, PeaceBringer, davesaz, LicketyQuickety,

Senator

Day 3 Riabi,

KlingonCelt

,

Titus

,

Sinsun1

, Salamence20, Nero Cain,

ChannelDelibird

,

Narninian

,

Senator

I mean, if that is the deciding factor here when looking for scum, based on what you are saying of course, then look at all the scum I found. Isn't it odd though that both Senator and LQ voted for themselves, (sorry random thought)

Honestly - no, I don't think it is. But even if you think stating reads is townie (which, in a loose sense - sure) what has he done with these statements? As far as I can tell - not much.

Well find, I can accept that you do not think it is townie. However if everyone did something of a semblance when people flipped we would have something interesting to go back and look at. It would be able to guide us a little. Rather then have one person constantly try to sway the town to one vote. It allows the mafia to easily sheep which is what is weighing down the town.

What?
He claimed VT - his claim was never attacked, so he didn't need to defend it at all.
I will also, restate, that I am more than willing to believe that his role is indeed Bashir.
I will then also add - so what?[/quote
Unless i misread, and my knowledge of the theme is nonexistant. He claimed doctor not vanilla townie. I believe this is why Narn thought the claim was bogus because he was left alive. So what, what? Are you suggesting that being able to defend yourself and be reasonable are not townie. I thought he handled it correctly when pushed and it looked townie to me. I apologise that you do not seem to think so.

You think when he's scum he would not be frustrated if being lynched?
I am, regardless of my alignment.
Are you not?

I guess no, I am not. I enjoy the limelight of being mafia on stage. I feed off the attention and it allows me to hone my story better. As a townie I get frustrated because little information that I have cannot clear me and I when I have no way of obtaining new information it becomes a stress. It is harder to tell the truth in mafia then to tell a lie. The truth can only be told so many times in so many ways. While if you are lying it can be more interesting or more pointed.

Why?

As I said, which was clearly missed. The mafia has reason to leave alive those who are likely to cause the town to lynch them. Why remove townies that the town will just lynch themselves. That is why saying, because he wasn't killed at night despite his role, proves he is town. It a ridiculous argument. However, technically it was Narm's claim but you said you agreed to his thinking so I attributed it to you as well in my notes.

[Suzune]

Fixed the quoting problem.

Spoiler:

That and having activity directly connected to the amount of push on him, and a dearth of scumhunting, and the Hider theory - yes.
Honestly, I didn't even realize he was a pusher for the BP - and I'm not actually willing to call that a scumtell, but him being on both lynch wagons that were both on town is a pretty valid reason to flip him also.

How many other people were on both lynch wagons?

Day 1:

Narninian

,

ChannelDelibird

,

Sinsun1

, HostileIntent,Saint,

Titus

,

KlingonCelt

, Zabing12, PeaceBringer, davesaz, LicketyQuickety,

Senator

Day 3 Riabi,

KlingonCelt

,

Titus

,

Sinsun1

, Salamence20, Nero Cain,

ChannelDelibird

,

Narninian

,

Senator

I mean, if that is the deciding factor here when looking for scum, based on what you are saying of course, then look at all the scum I found. Isn't it odd though that both Senator and LQ voted for themselves, (sorry random thought)

Honestly - no, I don't think it is. But even if you think stating reads is townie (which, in a loose sense - sure) what has he done with these statements? As far as I can tell - not much.

Well find, I can accept that you do not think it is townie. However if everyone did something of a semblance when people flipped we would have something interesting to go back and look at. It would be able to guide us a little. Rather then have one person constantly try to sway the town to one vote. It allows the mafia to easily sheep which is what is weighing down the town.

What?
He claimed VT - his claim was never attacked, so he didn't need to defend it at all.
I will also, restate, that I am more than willing to believe that his role is indeed Bashir.
I will then also add - so what?

Unless i misread, and my knowledge of the theme is nonexistant. He claimed doctor not vanilla townie. I believe this is why Narn thought the claim was bogus because he was left alive. So what, what? Are you suggesting that being able to defend yourself and be reasonable are not townie. I thought he handled it correctly when pushed and it looked townie to me. I apologise that you do not seem to think so.

You think when he's scum he would not be frustrated if being lynched?
I am, regardless of my alignment.
Are you not?

I guess no, I am not. I enjoy the limelight of being mafia on stage. I feed off the attention and it allows me to hone my story better. As a townie I get frustrated because little information that I have cannot clear me and I when I have no way of obtaining new information it becomes a stress. It is harder to tell the truth in mafia then to tell a lie. The truth can only be told so many times in so many ways. While if you are lying it can be more interesting or more pointed.

Why?

As I said, which was clearly missed. The mafia has reason to leave alive those who are likely to cause the town to lynch them. Why remove townies that the town will just lynch themselves. That is why saying, because he wasn't killed at night despite his role, proves he is town. It a ridiculous argument. However, technically it was Narm's claim but you said you agreed to his thinking so I attributed it to you as well in my notes.

[Suzune]

Thank you for arguing something I'm not claiming?
But, yes, I will agree that it seems a wise course of action to lynch our scummiest read from those bolded names.
Mine is CDB - who is yours?

Well technically you did claim it. You said, " but him being on both lynch wagons that were both on town is a pretty valid reason to flip him also." So I merely pointed out the number of people that were on both lynch wagons. Mine is Narn. I made that clear the other day. Likewise, I think it is worth to run analysis on the other trains that did not make it through. I find it suspect that they were smooth enough to kill one on the Senator's train because that would force us to fight internally rather then move forward.

Nah - you ignore their reads lists - you look at their votes and pushes. Reads lists are empty without actionp.

I disagree, but no point in fighting it.

And yet I *still* haven't managed to force through a wagon yet - weird.

It is a good thing that no one is intimidated by your monster response then. However, considering you are a huge advocater for it and still remain alive bares many questions too does it not.

Ah, the doctor mishap came from here: post 1862. Oops~

How did he "look townie" to you?

I believe you are simply restating to disagree now. I mentioned twice now that I thought he was quite townie looking and mentioned why I though. You would refute it and then ask me why again. I have nothing new to provide you at this point in time I believe that they are leaning townie. I understand that is not your perspective but it is mine.

So your working theory is that he plays like you, and not like me.
Why?

Haha, no. But you ask me if it does not apply to me, so I responded to that question. It did not come off as particularly anti-town to me. Perhaps it would be better for you to explain your stance about why you think he is mafia. Perhaps we would get more places.

I never said I agreed to that thinking.
Your notes need work on that, and also on what CDB claimed.
Maybe on more stuff too - your notes worry me now - I don't think they're very accurate.

For that you deserve my apology. You spoke in the conversation I interjected into. So I placed you on the same page. I apologise. My notes are my ideas and thoughts. Yours are clearly yours. While they are in contrast to one another, I do not believe that makes them wrong. You are not the mayor so you have not position to say all of my ideas are wrong, it is just your opinion of the situation because you are not confirmed townie yourself.

[Suzune]

Technically I am also an avacado.

Remind me of the Narn case - he's still town in my book for offering a limited reads list that was only town. That's an unusual scum play for a newb, and he strikes me as very newb. Your counter?

All I meant to suggest was that you implied it in the case. So I thought I should mention that since you made it look like you had not implied that was a part of your case.

So which scum play is unusual for a newb? That part of this comment I am curious about. Whether he is or is not a newb or not is something I am not taking into account. People hide behind how many games they have played here and I did not get the impression he was not knowledgeable about the game. Does being new at the game exempt you from being mafia? Underestimating those you think are weak will get you every time in my opinion. Regardless, my case on him is quite simple. When I joined the game, I noticed that he had at that point not posted anything concrete and would instead post interjecting comments and I thought it was strange that with the number of posts going on around CDB and Senator from back at the start of Day 3, he was always on the outside of the comments. Never commenting on the main topic that was going on. He constantly mentions that he has no or limited reads and for some reason that continues to fly. With very little information coming from him, no one else feels the need to comment on him. So he gets missed. Today, he was the only with the silly argument about why CDB was mafia.

I don't think it does at all - do you?

We need to be careful, I love to wax mafia theory and to see other people do it but we are treading into only theory crafting here. I find it interesting which you need to dissect everyone's posts and to be very active in voicing an opinion. People who do that are usually portrayed as threatening. So I am merely suggesting that since you are still alive that is bears why. The mafia is clearly controlling this game, finding out what the points of strength for them are needs to be the goal. Otherwise, we will be crushed in coming days. So now, in my opinion, it is time to question the actions of the last two days so we do not fall into a routine that gets exploited.

You stated he looked townie around the claim.
None of your prior reasoning explained why he looked townie around the claim - if it did quote it and I'll admit the fault.
I thought it was a valid question since 'look townie' is as applicable as 'looked scummy' - you don't care how they looked, you care why people are saying they looked one way or the other. The emptier the answer the more suspect the belief. It's why I ask - I want to know if you've actually thought this through, or are just tossing empty words at me.

Sorry I am on my phone because my laptop needed to be fixed so quoting is hard for me. So I hope this works well

from 2260

Should CDB be lynched?
Honestly, he was my early town read. He was the first person that I put a little town start next to in my notes. It was not until after everyone started discussing their scumminess that I began to wonder. Reviewing his ISO, I do not follow the reason why you at voting for him and at this current moment would not put a lot of stock on a scum flip for that position.

This was my in my second post of the game and I find my opinion holds true. I do not understand what you see and the only reason I can see that people would want to lynch it must be the beloved princess thing.

Words are empty, I have nothing concrete like actual evidence to back my claim. I just believe that posts like this, post 1396, post 1798, post 1960, post 1965. I was told once in a mafia game, here on this site, that mafia do not need to actively scum hunt. Rather mafia need to look for inconsistencies that can be exploited and make it look like it is someone else's idea. This was interesting to me at the time and I find it interesting and something I keep on the back burner. I believe that his posts show active thinking and moving. Also a honestly about bad moves and active rethinking showing that the thinking is not locked on something. Being locked, unless you are sure, on one idea limits you ability to see a person as something else.

You really dodged this question.

I apologise, I do not understand what the question is then. You asked if I thought he played like me and I said probably not. If there was a much larger question being asked you are going to have to ask again.

This is the case you meant?

activity directly connected to the amount of push on him, and a dearth of scumhunting, and the Hider theory - yes.
Honestly, I didn't even realize he was a pusher for the BP - and I'm not actually willing to call that a scumtell, but him being on both lynch wagons that were both on town is a pretty valid reason to flip him also.

I have never seen people so fixated over a hider before. I suppose this comes down to our difference in opinion of scumhunting. I am coming to realise that everyone has a different idea of what scum hunting is.

That's the purpose of this attack from me towards you. You are feeling very empty in factual reasons for your beliefs - agree/disagree?

I suppose you make a fair point. I have not facts. However, I fail to see how the amount of someones scum hunting and how often they play are good factual reasons. (Those were taken from your read that I quoted earlier).

I'm not saying they're all wrong - I'm saying some are assuredly wrong and that it leaves me concerned about the 'facts' you are using to base beliefs on. I will take that as a 'no' to sharing your notes/thoughts then?

This is an interesting question and I approach it with some uncertainty. Strangely enough it looks like a trap. Also, they are written down in my notebook since my laptop had to go into the computer store because he was getting my too hot so I would have to type them all out for you. I will continue to comment on actions of the game and you will see more colours from that. I believe this answer may disappoint you but so be it~

[Suzune]

I believe looking at the situation the sala kill was the only one that the scum could have made given the situation from yesterday

, so sadly I am not surprised. They could not risk killing someone on another train because that would be like confirming the other train was wise. So in order to keep in fighting high they limited the control of the town. I suppose from that perspective it was a smart move. It would then be wise to look at those not on the train though as I imagine it may lead to more evidence. Sorry the tired thoughts of my insomnia. I will check with he final decisions that led to that vote train later in the day.

Not sure how you reach this conclusion? Why couldn't scum shoot another on the wagon, why did it have to be Sal? Also the implication is one of the CW's is scum, so who is it and why?

Well I was riding on the train and I had thought about the craziness of this round of the game. With Senator leading that he was not mafia, with the craziness of RIP's roleclaim, and the attempted lynch trains that went and did not go. I realised that a good choice for dying tonight would have to be Sala. He did not have as many posts and did not any theories about who may or may not be scum. Therefore, if you were looking to kill someone who would leave the town with relatively nothing new to go on, Sala would be a good choice. Unless investigative roles received new information the town would be able to the same place it was yesterday.

"Also the implication is one of the CW's is scum, so who is it and why?" I am having trouble understanding this question. I implied it had to be someone on Senator's train because also choosing someone from a random train would suggest to the town that they were on the right track.

[Suzune]

@ Thor. I do not know how you divide the posts up nice and neat like that, but I envy the ability.

No.
Not that I ever said it did.

A little touchy aren't you? I did not say you said that. It was a question I asked in response to your comment about his newness.

So you...do think it's scummy of me to be alive?

No not directly, I do not think you are scum. In chess, you say why was that move advantageous to the the opponent when trying to figure out a move. I merely wonder if your constant need to lynch CDB is advantageous to the mafia. Just a thought I was having.

The larger question is why you townread him off something based on a theory of how he would react

I suppose I do not have a good answer for you here. The people I usually play with tend to sort of explode sometimes when they are involved heavily in a game and it is going towards a bad lynch. So it seemed like a natural reaction to me. Not very good case material. Theory is where an idea starts, I have nothing concrete to go on so I have the theory as the starting ground.

Makes sense?

Indeed

why do you think me asking to see your notes on the game is a trap?

If you reveal all of your hand, then everyone including the mafia sees how you see. It makes one more easily manipulable because I would be telling exactly what I thought was townie and scummy.

[Suzune]

She said she'd be back on the 22nd and she is now out of V/LA mode, so to ignore her now is to let scum slip under the radar completely.

she did not come back to the game she was hosting. However, I agree we should probably replace her.

[Suzune]

Can scum straight-up shoot a Hider?

I would assume so..

no, that is. Not how a boxer works. A hider cannot be targeted by anything directly it hits the person they are hiding behind. The only way to kill a hider is to kill the person they are hiding behind. Therefore even if the hider hid behind scum they would not die unless the scum died.

[Suzune]

Not the way I am used to playing but I see why it works that way.

[Suzune]

Thinking about this hider thing, is it not possible that the hider just hid behind the millar. The town was not sure whether or not to lynch the millar on day one, perhaps the hider figured that there was no way the millar would get night killed since the high chance the town would just lynch them. The millar is a town role, while a negative town role, still a safe spot to hide. That is something else to consider. I cannot seem to find a reference the idea that the hider hid behind CDB.

Today is day four that means if RIP is telling the truth then we should be able to see whether or not he is the tracker. If there is someone that we reasonably believe is town we can check to see if they are telling the truth based on the results they get. It would still be a gamble, but it would give us the chance to see what is happening and perchance clear up this bizarre claim. Having information is something the town does not seem to have right now, losing our potential information role is a dangerous play in my opinion.

[Suzune]

Why you in such a hurry to end the day Thor?

[Suzune]

Ok, we went about 12 hours with no one posting there. What the ever loving fuck?

In a weird way, we have hit a dead end. Or simply we are rehashing the same material over and over, with everyone either being on one side or the other of issues. OR simply we need to talk about who would make not jsuta good lynch target but also look for the rest of the scum team as a whole, forward planning.

[Suzune]

It is just really quiet here~

[Suzune]

Vote: Klingoncelt

I'm sorry, the town has lost too many people for quick votes. Not caring who lives and who dies is not very townie of you.

[Suzune]

This game frustrates me because we barely talk about anything.

[Suzune]

I lied about something alright.
Not one but the illusion is almost over. I need one more day. Game is over.

I mean if we are at the claiming we lied part right here. You might as well share your secrets.

[Suzune]

Personally I would like to know what he lied about before we hammer. But, if he is mafia he might not say.

[Suzune]

you'd lie for the same reason you'd lie in that NY game.

well we are not playing the NY game. We are playing this one. Please keep the games separate and do not rely solely on meta.

[Suzune]

Well since we are all talking about it, I am leaning heavily on Narn and Titus for mafia.

p-edit- I believe LittleGumBall that is he is suggesting you are the scum here. His case makes sense.

[Suzune]

Well I assume that not everyone played in the NY game, therefore using it as your sole claim is hard for anyone to understand. Meta is important but if you cannot link it to this game, how is anyone going to understand your claim.

[Suzune]

I believe, and RIP can correct me if I misunderstand, he is saying that you are scum because you are waiting until it is safe to say something. Scum do not have to actively hunt rather use situations to gain a small advantage. The fact that you reveal after the fact that you trusted someone or that you thought they were town. While it looks like a good and fair townie claim, doing it often with no one knowing it is your stance is actually pretty scummy because it looks like you were waiting for the time to announce you were town.

This one here:

So a while ago I kind of skimmed the majority of the previous day, and Salamence was really the only person I trusted. I began to see Senator as a Lickety 2.0 of sorts where I just wanted him out of the game.

Was a quote from you that he did not put in a quote box. However it is interesting that Sala was your one town read when Sala had barely posted anything and filled for another role. however, you mention Sala as town rather then the role they took the place of which would be more accurate since Sala and I entered it on the third to the last day of the phase.

[Suzune]

Actually I find that townies lie more then mafia. As mafia, telling the truth all the time means that you never step on your own feet. And a good lie needs to be at least 90% truth. However, townies lie to hide their real roles behind claiming vanilla, they lie about why the know information so as not to attract the mafia. In mafia, the mafia act as townie and the townies act as mafia. That is just the way the game goes.

p-edit, please do not be so arrogant RIP. Arrogance is an ugly emotion and it is hard for people to relate to.

[Suzune]

Okay then one at a time. Seriously this is the discussion we needed to have days ago.

RIP: post 2848 I cannot tell if you like what I said or not. Actually, english is not my first language either. So sometimes I get confused and need to ask for it in other words. However I thought the case made sense, so I have a hard time seeing why others did not.

To answer your other question. There is only the really obvious one where he claimed he was town and then said his opening post was like "Yeah, town" but otherwise, I cannot see any reason to think Sala was town. As for senator that is a little more tricky. It will take some time.

@LittleGumBall
In response to this, post 2849. I hate to say it, but why wouldn't you read it? I mean, the majority of this game is reading an analyzing. I read the entire game in order to join it effectively and let me tell you some parts were really boring and the first day was dreadful. But I do not understand, you joined the game on day one. You have day one posts, what do you mean you replaced in the start of day four? It is hard having this much data missing from you. Because all we can look at is what is there.

@Nero: post 2850,
I believe that he is arguing that as scum he would not tell us he is lying.

too much fast posting. I'll make another post.

[Suzune]

Okay then one at a time. Seriously this is the discussion we needed to have days ago.
@LittleGumBall
In response to this, post 2849. I hate to say it, but why wouldn't you read it? I mean, the majority of this game is reading an analyzing. I read the entire game in order to join it effectively and let me tell you some parts were really boring and the first day was dreadful. But I do not understand, you joined the game on day one. You have day one posts, what do you mean you replaced in the start of day four? It is hard having this much data missing from you. Because all we can look at is what is there.

I began to read and then never finished. I think I got to maybe page 75 and then gave up and then forgot about it as I moved on with daily life as well as the rest of the game.

I was there on day one and then was on vacation for two weeks. Monkeyman replaced me and then I replaced the person that replaced me.

That is what I mean. You are acting like you were not there in the heat of the moment on day one. You could offer things that you noticed from that day to harness your case. There have not been a lot of pages like those first few days so clearly there would have to be some gems of insight to offer. Rather then hide behind rejoining, I feel that you should build upon it. However, I apologise I cannot tell you how to play.

[Suzune]

Would you like to share some insight with us on that quote Nero?

[Suzune]

Would you like to share some insight with us on that quote Nero?

sure?

you said that he's not arguing that he wouldn't lie as scum. That post shows he IS arguing that he wouldn't lie as scum.

Okay run me through this again.
-The quote is why would scum lie.
- I told you that he was saying that "if he was scum he would not tell us he lied" Not that he wouldn't lie

That is why I wanted to see what you intended by it.

[Suzune]

Well this has turned into a very interesting morning. I cannot remember the last time I was this fired up before I went to work. I can only give you another half hour of my time and then I have to run and I swear if someone hammers this before I get home, that person is first to be lynched. Because after several days of not doing anything something interesting is finally happening and I will not have it squashed by some mafia to step in before we sort some things out.

On one side we have RIP, who everyone was sure was lying. Which let's be honest that was a pretty poor gambit and it worked against him. Everyone changed their votes. Although, to be honest, I am not sure why. You act like townies never lie and only mafia do. Regardless, he has shed some interesting light onto Gumball that I think would be interesting to have others consider before the go full hammer on this.

On the the side we have Gumball, who is clearly flailing right now. He is going around in circles and trying to use leaving and returning to the game as a crutch. However, it is hardly an excuse considering he was playing the first day. So that is something to consider. Also, RIP makes a case that is interesting to consider.

Then we have Nero, who seems so full into his tunnel of RIP, that is has been going on for days. Seriously many game days. Which is honestly kind of strange. When you chase someone so hard for so long you begin to lose sight of everything.

[Suzune]

Perhaps I am just demanding, but why do you two made a traditional reads. One where the most townie people are on top and the most scummy people are on the bottom?

p-edit, the tracker sees if someone makes a move. The watcher sees if someone visits.

[Suzune]

On the the side we have Gumball, who is clearly flailing right now

And RIP is not? Hasn't he accused like everyone on his wagon as scum at one point or another? lol

Well actually I find him rather clear headed right now. Or at least his current accusation makes sense. If you consider that the game has to have at least five-ish mafia, then it is possible that the majority of people on the train are mafia since the town is not really doing so hot. So if there is a chance here to stop the same discussion and see another perspective, which this town is lacking because so many strong voices want to keep the same thing going, then I think it would be wise for us to take it.

Clearly the mafia killed Sala because those leading this town are so fixated. They need not kill any important members because clearly everyone is going to fight the same things over and over.

So I ask you, to try to look from a different perspective. You might notice something.

[Suzune]

No sinus , I handled that a few days ago when there is like four pages of Thor and I fighting. Are you keeping up. This the reason I am still not voting for CDB

[Suzune]

Seriously though you really are just as bad as Nero. I love how all of the people in this are so fixated. It is like playing with a town that no longer hears new posts of they do not relate to the mid set they are locked into.

[Suzune]

Well at least you acknowledge reading it. However, i would appreciate if we talked about more things then CDB since, even if he is mafia, he cannot be mafia alone.

[Suzune]

Thank you for FINALLY coming up with an explanation for your statement. Originally my vote was to pressure you into an explanation for said lie but at this point I really do want to lynch you.
sozzles friend

So you're saying you like his explanation but want to lynch him anyway?
What are you doing?

I never said I liked it. I still think it's an awful move.

But do you believe it? You got the answer you wanted what verdict do you draw?

[Suzune]

Seriously guys. This game is not that hard. In fact, there is so muc tunneling that I have idea how any of you can even get to a vote. The town has been going around and around for days. Looking at the same people. Unfortunately I do think it's that hard. If you have to get to the point where you are choosing between lynching a vt or a town power role and you cannot decide. That should the red flag. Without going into a load of detail here is what see.

In the town pile we have sinsun, rip, Thor, CDB
In the scum pile is Nero, littlegunball, Kling, and Titus

Anyone else I am not sure about. But that seems clear to me. Go ahead and panic and say how scum I am for suggesting soemthing that goes against all of your tunnels. But it is time to think outside the box or we will lose. So I urge you to look at those people I suggested. If I need tonprove my role to get the ball rolling I will. However, I am getting a little tired of going round circle.

[Suzune]

I need a good laugh, why do you think I am scum?

I'm glad. I might even go and start my computer up just for you so it is nice and laid out.

[Suzune]

Case against Nero

Let's start here: post 1037 This is what I have found to be so true about your behavior in the last few days. You ignore posts that are inconvenient to your tunnel and you stay away from all major issues. You did that in the past too. You said you did not mind killing LQ but you stayed out of the discussion for the most part. You even said that you do not think she is town but would agree to lynch her anyway. Who lynches those they view to be town. Seriously.

Even Senator thought you were scum: post 1554 but it was lost in the game state because so many people were willing to handwave everything that he said because he was suspicious of everyone. In this game there are only a handful of really active people. Senator interacted with everyone and was a townie so tend to agree that his suspicion is well placed.

In all of your back posting you have never once thought that CDB was scum and yet you are willing to vote for him now. You are amazing fickle in your voting. Townies should care who lives and who dies. Townies need to fight as a team and catch mistakes together. The fact that you are willing to flip flop opinions and jump between people proves that early game you were willing to side with whatever was popular regardless of whether or not you have a read on it. Which is actually lazy catching for all of us. One who flips often to the popular train is often the scum looking to blend in with the majority.

Its not wrong to be suspicious of a slot. It is wrong though to constantly tunnel a spot and from this point further post 1981, to not take part in much of the discussion unless it was why are we not lynching RIP. You actually unvoted RIP and then waited for votes in order to intent to hammer. Who does that?

In this post: post 2118 you say that CDB is town and you can feel it now and eight posts above you say that now RIP is more townie too. Yet you continue to remain only fixated on these players. Even though you just said they were more townie then before. You even defended him here: post 2189. Later you mention that he just town slipped and you say you want to lynch him just to make him go away post 2652. This this point you are beginning to look like a small child who was wrong as opposed to supporting the team.

This starts your sort of downward spiral. You become more fixated on RIP. You insult anyone who does not think the way you do and last night you could barely string together from what we were talking about what was happening in the posts. Nero, your game is all over but it is most certainly not a townie game. You say that people are not scummy, but then jump on their lynch train or offer to be on their lynch train. You confess that you think RIP is townie but that you want to lynch him for personal goals then tunnel him for days. Finally, you are not longer listening to anyone else and are insulting those who disagree. You told titus that if she was not going to help, after she voted for you, that she might as well switch out because she was annoying. This kind of play is not town, it is anti-town and for this reason I believe you are playing on the scum team. Thank you for waiting for this post.

[Suzune]

Oh and incase it was not obvious

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Suzune]

Sorry, I have to go to work now. Anyone else who wants a case is going to have to wait until my break or until I get home. I apologise for that.

[Suzune]

And that in case it was not obvious post was a little mean, I apologise.

[Suzune]

Sorry my car broke down I the middle of nowhere afterwork yesterday. I am back now, but I am away from my computer but I can work those cases up for you.

[Suzune]

Yes rip who did you track.

[Suzune]

I also have something to reveal but I can wait for rip.

[Suzune]

Important information always does take a while.

[Suzune]

I track Nero cain

What is your result. It is very important.

[Suzune]

I should be more clear, I believe there will be a discrepancy in the stories. However, I can wait to see how it plays out. Might work in the town's favor.

[Suzune]

Oh for good gracious way to waste my power too RIP. To prove you were a real tracker I used my ability as lightning rod to draw all the abilities to me. I knew what your result would be then because I drew all power to me. The healing, the killing and the tracking. All you had to do was say your result. Just say your bloody result, I could have claimed my power, and all would have been happy. Why did it come to this...

[Suzune]

I did it because I believed in you ans I thought we could find the mafia....ah! So Frustrating!

[Suzune]

Oh, that's it

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Suzune]

The only people who got punished for it were the town.

I had a great plan going. All I had to do was use the lightning bolt to pull all the powers to me. If we had no doctor I would die and you could lynch everyone on my suspect list. If I lived I lived to clear RIP and Myself.

So due to the craziness we are pretty much back at square one because my plan did not go over and not one listens about lynches.

[Suzune]

suzunne's story checks out (The lightning rod) -- but what is your reason for voting nero?

Because he is clearly scum and no one believes me and I am tried of going round circle with everyone. I made a post about and he hashed it out to inaccuracies, but something is brewing and I just cannot get it to prove itself

[Suzune]

This is the point in the game when I'm likely to anchor onto the reads of anyone who sounds reasonable and aware of the gamestate. I'd really like it if you guys could tell me where you'd like my vote to be, especially if you no longer doubt my slot's alliance.

To be fair I want to lynch Nero, here is my case and his rebuttal post 2988
post 2993

[Suzune]

Since we are all talking about it, I would not mind lynching littlegumball either...

[Suzune]

Since we are all talking about it, I would not mind lynching littlegumball either...

How come?

I'm a little disappointed about how my earlier gambit played out. I do not have my case for you finalized. Give me some time and I will post it up~

[Suzune]

Case against LittleGumball
75 p
My feeling that you are scum is for a very good reason. It revolves around two major factors the first being that you subbed out and then subbed back in. You act you have forgotten everything from the first day and that nothing you learned playing the first two weeks and 75 pages matters. When I pressed you about it several times you used the excuse that you replaced in. When I questioned you about it you said you missed the entire day 2 phase. While I can understand missing a phase, that does not eliminate the fact that you still played and can obtain evidence and motives from early game. Looking back on things will give you hindsight and you had the luxury to that unlike the rest of us that subbed in day 2. However, you refuse to go back. post 2856, post 2849

The second case revolves around one issue. The fixation on the first gambit played in this game. The lie. You became so obsessed over it and even after I explained it to you because you could not understand why RIP did it, you still fixated on it. Then there was this curious exchange. Where you used the above case element to claim that you could not have any reads at the end of day three because you had just subbed in. post 2862 Where you accused RIP of putting words in your mouth. However you clearly said in the second quote, "I did not have any reads because I just subbed in." You then continued to look for holes in the gambit story over and over, as if hoping to find the scum. post 2869

Everyone in this game is fixated on something. However, these little things rub me the wrong way.

[Suzune]

so from what i gathered is that suzan lightning rod everything?

That is correct, I was able to receive all actions.

[Suzune]

Don't patronize me Titus. I already explained it post 3065

[Suzune]

It is simple in case that post does not explain it. If he was a tracker, his result would come back for tracking me. Everyone knew that RIP hated Nero. It was pretty clear. So I assumed he would use his ability. By redirecting we could prove he was a tracker because his result would come back me. Easy. Makes perfect sense to me.

I care not that you had this power as town in another game. I have it is a town in this one. Don't play the devil's advocate with me. All games are not the same.

[Suzune]

Mafia's have scouts not trackers. Tracker is a town role. Plus, in case it was not obvious his reaction proved my claim and his alliance to the town.

[Suzune]

*eyes down Suzune*

I do not know what this means, but it sounds derogatory to me. What does it imply.

[Suzune]

Titus it became about deduction in the end.
-I cannot use my other power tonight so there must be a roleblocker
- I did not die absorbing the attack so there is a doctor
- Clearly the mafia must have attacked
- I knew from what RIP said that he was the tracker.

Since I drew all roles to myself, I could confirm he was the tracker. Thus I was pushing him for his result. This is not about receiving feedback it is looking at the result.

p-edit
Humor yourself, a scout.
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1 ... sg38073322
Ants faction last mafia on the list. I played it.

[Suzune]

I still do not think it was a poor idea. I am surprised you all do. I hate to lay it out for you all then but let's go with it.

I believed rip was town.
I knew I could manipulate the results to prove if he was indeed the tracker.
By changing them his result would get messed up.
Judging his reaction would prove his alliance
His massive freakout was very town.
This he was town.

Everyone else's complaint hangs on the fact that there was no way to prove he was town. I find it hard to believe that all of you have never used deductive reasoning to make a conclusion before and since we have no other obvious information roles, would not make an effort to prove our only one. Actually the only thing I was foolish about doing was believing that this town full of mafia would give a damn what my plan was because they were too busy trying to kill rip.

To answer any lingering complaints. No I have not used my other power, I do understand how it is effective. For another x shot power I wish I could think of a practical use for it.

Remember yesterday when I told you that you needed to think outside the box a little.

[Suzune]

My patience with this game is quickly getting exhausted. Everyone acts like a know it all, and the minute someone tries to do anything everyone snaps down on it with suspicion. It is a small wonder we cannot catch scum if everyone continues to use only their opinion and not consider intent, what's best for the town, or how to plan ahead. The town is only as strong as the people working it. Sorry, I guess I am a tad disappointed with this.

[Suzune]

Please place a counter argument then why you think he is mafia.

Well I thought he was town to begin with his points made sense and his discussion was the most reasonable. However going into the night the hugest hanging balance was the claim. I thought if could prove the claim was good, we would actually have a tracker that we could use to help us. Your case hangs on your inability to think he is anything but town.

if you read the morning before the end with littlegunball, Nero, rip, and myself and did not walk away from it thinking rip was town, I do not know how else to explain it to you. It almost seems like everyone in this game who gets too much nonsense piled on them is town. Clearly we shoul look at those who have never had to defend themselves for being too obviously town.

Now clearly I know my own role and my own alignment since absolutely no one can seem to prove themselves in this game for some I apparent reason, I can understand your skeptical. However I woud chance the guess, thet not mafia would out their plan like this or defend it to the nail when the mafia clearly has the advantage. Yeah, does not strike me as too bright for their team.

Again, frustration is more of a townie emotion then a mafia emotion. apparently being over suspicious of everyone is the theme of this game. Without an information ability to prove you something better we are going to have to use good old reasoning to win.

[Suzune]

For all curiousness mine was not night kill immune.

[Suzune]

I am uncertain, Why the answer matters to you Titus?

[Suzune]

I am uncertain, Why the answer matters to you Titus?

If your theory is accurate, then we can confirm your alignment by calling for a three stage popcorn massclaim. Stage 1: PR or VT, Stage 2: PRs role claim. Stage 3: Who they tried to visit and results.

If we have no protective role, then that's pretty clear that you are lying. If we do have a protective role claimed, it forces the scum kill or raises the spectre of a fake claim to protect you.

Second, did you claim role blocked the next night?

I think given the number of scum left in this game that it would be unwise for a doctor to claim regardless. However, I understand your point but by getting an answer from the host we are confirming the role. What host would confirm one?

Yes, I was told I cannot take another night action the coming night.

[Suzune]

I received no word about the night after. So night six I have heard nothing about.

Titus I am getting a little tired of role skeptism in this game. If you dislike my claim, lynch me and let it come up as I claimed it.

[Suzune]

It is simple in case that post does not explain it. If he was a tracker, his result would come back for tracking me. Everyone knew that RIP hated Nero. It was pretty clear. So I assumed he would use his ability. By redirecting we could prove he was a tracker because his result would come back me. Easy. Makes perfect sense to me.

I care not that you had this power as town in another game. I have it is a town in this one. Don't play the devil's advocate with me. All games are not the same.

Psyche has yet to confirm that he tracked you.

Rip did.

[Suzune]

is there a leading explanation for why the town's been playing so poorly so far
like was the original playerlist full of lurkers and toxic players and VIs or something?

it is because the players are obsessed with tunnels on people who claimed townie roles but would rather deny all claims and lynch the person claiming.

[Suzune]

I think Thor claimed Post-Restricted Townie.
Whatever it is, we should probably just check his posts for scumminess like we do anybody else's.

this claim is fake. My other ability makes people post restrictive by allowing to control what why can write or forcing them to include things of my choosing. I find it hard to imagine that there are two post restrictive townies in this game.

[Suzune]

I think Thor claimed Post-Restricted Townie.
Whatever it is, we should probably just check his posts for scumminess like we do anybody else's.

this claim is fake. My other ability makes people post restrictive by allowing to control what why can write or forcing them to include things of my choosing. I find it hard to imagine that there are two post restrictive townies in this game.

Did you post-restrict Thor665/(The Archmage Ludicrous) with that Rumplestitskin thing?

do not be foolish I cannot because I used the Lightning bolt power.

[Suzune]

I will be posting in this game later today. I apologise for the wait. I just want to finish my work project. Some games are quick to post in, but this one I want to study a little.

[Suzune]

So you're Town for being on all 3 lynches, but I'm Scum. That's a hella lot of bullshit you got there, son.
LicketyQuickety and Senator Pisskop were trolls. They were clogging up the game. I was thinking that Senator might be Scum the way he was trolling. Neither of those two contributed jack.
The CDB lynch was for info. The 50% chance that he was Scum was eating at me...
But at least RIP/Psyche didn't get lynched. The way RIP was behaving I was certain he was Scum.

This kind of thinking annoys me. As if LQ and Senator did not try. Neither trolled the game as much as talked nonstop. I hardly understand why that counts as a good reason to lynch them. That is like the excuse of saying that it is okay to lynch people who annoy you. I have a hard time believing that everyone thought he was scum, but fine clearly scum to you post a lot.

Seriously? Does that Deep Space Nine claim look anything like a serious claim to you? Do you honestly think that's a real role? Do you honestly think the first post on Day 1 is a serious post?

And I still don't understand how you lynched Channel for "information." It was Day 4 you should have had plenty of information already. That's bull.

I cannot agree with this more, we are so far beyond in information stage of this game. Hell, some games to not even run this long...The reason provided is that annoying fixation on the hider. I am beginning to think that everyone should lynch anyone who has spent too much time fixated on something because it has been our downfall all game.

The more I read Klings posts on this page, the more I realise she is probably scum.

Votechange: Kling

[Suzune]

If you were watcher specifically, you would have saw everyone hitting Suzune last night and would spill it and win us the game.

If you claimed another PR, it may or may not be confirm-able.

If you claimed non-PR, it might also be confirmable.

1. That would not win us the game in any way at all.
2. Yes, but pay attention to #3
3. Yes, which casts doubt on why it would matter then.

1. you are correct it would not win us the game in any way. However, it would tell us who has a active power role as opposed to a passive one. That kind of information is important for the town and will aid it. You could use it to force people to role claim based on what we know happened last night. This would clear up a lot of interesting things and might eliminate the number of suspects that we have. Why does no one else think like this? We need to use the roles we have as a town to our ability now. They cannot kill us all at night but we might be able to determine who would most make the kill and that would heavily aid the town.

Seriously Thor what is your problem with claiming. You have been dancing around it all phase. Unless you are the hero or something you are basically saying you are the watcher and if you aren't then clearly you are leaning heavily on mafia. So what be it?

Do you think, if the claim is true, scum would likely have this role? (if yes my rejoinder is to disagree with you - but this will end the conversation)

I mean seriously have what role. A post restricting role. It sounds like a totally believable scum ability to me. Like a silencer.

Do you think my previous slot holder struck you as the type of scum to go for the long con in faking this role?

Since I have known you for three phases now, do you think it matters what you slot holder did on day one?

[Suzune]

Well Nero the vote is on Kling right now, because apparently users who post a lot are nothing better then trolls and their opinions do not matter. Yes Kling by the way, I know what both spam and trolls are however I fail to see either thet way. It looks rather like you are not being tolerant of other styles while last was annoying to read, I did not feel the same about senator. Did he post too much, sure. Should he have pondered what to say before posting, yes. Did he defend himself well to me, yes. Rather it looks like you are tying to say it is okay to remove those people. The town takes what the town gets, it is not okay to lynch people because they are annoying because each role has its value to the game.

[Suzune]

I am not pushing for a massclaim, because mass claims are boring. The difference I was suggesting was that if you were a watcher, you would have seen who is an active power role. By seeing who is an active power role we can work out who among those who attacked could be mafia. That is what I am suggesting. Or perhaps that is what I am suggesting you do here. Assuming we have a watcher, one would think he would use that to his advantage to force the hand of those who moved last night.

You have been playing with your claim all round. It is driving me crazy. That is all that second message reads.

Apparently then i do not know what post restricted means in this form. One would consider it to mean you cannot say certain things, post a certain number of times, or something of the like. There was a post restricted earlier in the game they spoke in rhymes.

[Suzune]

I'll post as soon as I get home from work.

[Suzune]

I feel like a bad person, however I just do not enjoy this game much...I need to get my head in the game.

Let me check to see where we are at, and I will comment as I go.

[Suzune]

@Thor

Yeah...so, basically, I would have a list of Town PRs and 1 (or maybe more) scum.
I could then offer that list and...what?
Or I could not offer the list and just say 'I suspect this guy' which would be indistinguishable from what I'm doing.
I don't understand what you want or think here nor why you think it is pro-town.

I am uncertain what you do not understand about what I am saying. This is a simple role. When a watcher or tracker gets a result that will favor the town. They begin to look through ISO for something to prove that what they are doing might be shady and make connections. As far as I can see, this is the way the role is played. I have played many watchers in the last year and you just need to be credible. Do you know know how to play one? Or quick obviously you are not one because despite your love to argue that you are correct I see no reason to push me for how to play a role. All roles are important to the game, I should not have to coach you on how to play one. Don't get me wrong, I like to hand out free information sometimes but clearly you can handle it.

I have not played with my claim at all - my stance has remained constant. What I am dealing with is multiple people randomly requesting I claim with no actual sensible reasoning behind the idea. That is not me "playing" with anything. That is me repeatedly saying 'no' or repeatedly asking 'why would that help?' Neither of which affect my claim.

So are you the watcher or aren't you the watcher. Which is it? How many times are we going to go in circles about it? There is your specifically.

Well Nero the vote is on Kling right now, because apparently users who post a lot are nothing better then trolls and their opinions do not matter. Yes Kling by the way, I know what both spam and trolls are however I fail to see either thet way. It looks rather like you are not being tolerant of other styles while last was annoying to read, I did not feel the same about senator. Did he post too much, sure. Should he have pondered what to say before posting, yes. Did he defend himself well to me, yes. Rather it looks like you are tying to say it is okay to remove those people. The town takes what the town gets, it is not okay to lynch people because they are annoying because each role has its value to the game.

You are factually wrong.

Troll/spam posts occupy physical space in the thread. Players have to weed through the crap posts to find posts with actual content.

That can cause players to miss posts with actual value. Having to weed through tons of crap posts can cause player apathy.

Senator Pisskop did NOT add value from the game, he directly interfered with Town play.

Do not defend him any further, he does not deserve it.

And voting for me for wanting him gone is pure bullshit.

Noob.

You seem to take this quite personally, that I think they might have been decent players underneath those posts. I see no reason for this amount of hostility.

[Suzune]

I posted on it a few times; Basically Rumpelstiltskin wouldn't be a good fake claim unless you already knew that Buck Bokai was in game and the Rumpelstiltskin post restriction came before Buck Bockai was revealed. It has to be a mod-provided fake claim if it is indeed fake IMO.

Here is another one of those interesting fixation problems this town has. I could care less whether it is a town fake claim, a flavor claim, a mod provided fake claim, either way the question comes back to is the person playing it town or mafia. Since roles go both ways. As for whether it fits with the theme or not, I know not.

[Suzune]

Yep, it's an amazing power alright. So amazing that it will instant clear me. XD

I have a thought about what it might be, hope we get to see it.

[Suzune]

INTENT TO HAMMER

When Ika is scum he does shit all and this looks like his scum meta. I had nagging concerns about his wagon going so fast but even if he's scum then he's prob getting bussed so yeah..

but yeah, gimmie a few to comment on other things.

no I believe sinsun has the intent to hammer. Might as well let him use his ability.

[Suzune]

Sorry, running a tad behind today. Post coming~

[Suzune]

Pere, here is perhaps a better explanation of my issue with you today. I'm desperately trying to figure out this game, and I feel like we as town need all the information we can get that doesn't benefit scum. OTOH, here you are, presumably holding some secret piece of info (how you know the exact number of scum in this game) but, then you want us all to massclaim. Scum already know exactly how many of them there are (unless they can't count, which is unlikely), but they probably don't know everyone's roles. I don't see how your behavior/plan benefits anyone other than scum, and they're already winning this game, so why should we help them?

Well sadly since we do not know what roles are in this game mass claiming is not the most helpful thing we can do. However, I honestly believe that we might have to start town hunting over mafia hunting for the sheer fact that the town has almost no information to go on.

[Suzune]

The upside of. A mass claim is that it is possible to help any potential information roles understand the readings they have.

[Suzune]

Proof? Evidence? Oh wait... let me guess, that's secret info?

there is very little secret info in this game. In fact the town would kill for a little secret information. In my question for you is why, you cannot see the information based on what has already been played. Many roles have done things and those roles would be as good as confirmed, plus losing the doctor gave us anothe pool. Why are you so desperate to shed discord?

[Suzune]

Proof? Evidence? Oh wait... let me guess, that's secret info?

Didn't see it, but for today, I am hard reading Titus as scum and that's who I am dead set on lynching. Too many dead town have also scum read her.

Also just for the records if I were to take a gamble and have to guess ALL remaining scum in the game RIGHT NOW.

(In order of scumminess/preference)

1.) Titus
2.) Riabi
3.) Nero Cain
4.) Klingoncelt

You need to put yourself on this list, Sinsun.

no he doesn't had the scum of hammered himself sinsun would have been able to prove himself. It was in the scums best interest to hammer himself do to that. Making your comment kind of silly.

[Suzune]

Sorry, I am just getting home after a business trip. I will be finishing catching up.

[Suzune]

The upside of. A mass claim is that it is possible to help any potential information roles understand the readings they have.

Can I put you down as "For"?

Sure, put me down as for. Even if we get several fake mass claims, the benefit of assuming the game is balanced and a chance to help our investigative roles is important.

[Suzune]

pere knows that things are that ambiguous
you're the one who seems to be paralyzed by that ambiguity
yes, we can't be 100% that players like me are town, but is that really a big deal??

It it when you're making assumptions based on that yeah. For example, if you claim that there are exactly 4 scum in this game, and you know this for a fact, and do all your planning around said "fact", and then, it turns out there are 5 scum because of that one scenario you didn't think was very likely... then we're fucked as town. Nuance is important, and any planning we do as town should reflect the fact that we don't actually KNOW very much right now.

you are never going to know the exact number of anything in this game until it is over. Therefore, we need to play with a safe assumption. Having four or five scum in a game this size is balanced, and the traditional build. One has to assume some things otherwise, we will go around and around in circles all day. If we suspect everyone all the time then the mafia win.

[Suzune]

Of the remaining players, (besides yourself, of course), which NK would be the most devastating?

Thinking about this further, and touching on what Titus said...

It appears likely that we have a doctor, or some role that protects people in some way. If we don't, then Suzune is lying about being a Lightning Bolt. Otherwise, the kill that was almost certainly targetted for someone that night would have killed her. So, the most devastating NK in my mind would be the doctor. Obviously, I don't know who that player is, but, do you really think that having that role outed and putting a big red bulls-eye on their forhead is a good thing for town?

Consider for a minute that we are six days in. There are twelve people playing this game. Assuming that this game started with 5 mafiam then we are currently sitting on a 8-4 split. And again assuming there are no third party of any kind. If we lynch a townie today 7-4 and the mafia will kill on tonight 6-4. At that point we can no longer afford to make a mistake. So we are one day from lylo assuming that we fail here. It is not the worst position for the town to be when thinking of calling a mass claim.

While I myself are usually against them. I cannot deny that, we are always going around in circles in this game. The mafia is winning in that regard because the townies have to rehash and rehash the game day in and day out.

[Suzune]

Proof? Evidence? Oh wait... let me guess, that's secret info?

there is very little secret info in this game. In fact the town would kill for a little secret information. In my question for you is why, you cannot see the information based on what has already been played. Many roles have done things and those roles would be as good as confirmed, plus losing the doctor gave us anothe pool. Why are you so desperate to shed discord?

I can't see how many scum there are based on what has been played. Can you enlighten me? Riabli's post mirrors how I feel.

Also, Klingon and I both know ika. He would have informed his buddies that he hammers at l-1 almost always. The fact Sinsun "wanted" to hammer and failed could easily be staged.

Does no one here ever play games with closed setups?

Given the size of the game, I would not have found it odd if we were fighting about third party because let's face it that is something often seen in larger games. However, we are fighting about mafia size. If you pulled a gun on me and asked me to assume how many mafia there are, I would say five. Five is the balanced number for a town this large. So assuming one is dead there would be four left. This thought apparently mirrors with what you are thinking because you have four people in red on your reads list.

If someone was mafia and they did not want the town to discover something, they should hammer themselves. That makes sense. I assume, that his ability is sensor. Which would make sense given what he wanted to do.

[Suzune]

Proof? Evidence? Oh wait... let me guess, that's secret info?

there is very little secret info in this game. In fact the town would kill for a little secret information. In my question for you is why, you cannot see the information based on what has already been played. Many roles have done things and those roles would be as good as confirmed, plus losing the doctor gave us anothe pool. Why are you so desperate to shed discord?

I'm not trying to shed discord, I'm trying to not let Pere spread false assumptions. Many roles have done things that add to levels of likelyhood, but not certainty. Why is this so hard to understand.

Also, what the hell are you talking about with losing the doctor? While I agree that there is likely a doctor or some other similar role in this game, we've not lost him or her. In a game where things are this close, don't we want to do everything we can to protect said role?

Sorry, it was a cop. I apologise.

[Suzune]

Raibi, you are correct. I also agree there must be a doctor and I assume also that there must be a roleblocker because I was blocked from using a second action the following night. (Which is a really creative away to resolve that problem about lightning rod going first so what happens to the roleblock...) I digress, the only other time then to role claim would be tomorrow. Assuming that we fail today of course.

Titus, I have no idea what Sinsun is playing the way he is playing. Honestly, he plays a lot like people I usually play with. While a sensor is great, it is also a wildcard. One that needs to be used in a strategically perfect time. Since there were twenty people in this game, using on day one is not beneficial because the chance of catching and exploiting mafia are slimmer. The longer you go into the game the more mafia that have to be on the train. If one can afford to wait until late game, they can be much more accurate with it. This works the same was the vigilante does. The vigilante would rarely hit night one do to the number of potential townies to kill. Ideally they would wait until late game when more stories are out.

I do not know how sensor is done at mafiascum. However, where I usually play the wagon train is sent to the sensor with a note about how many mafia are one it. Now, assuming that it is played the same way here. It would confirm him because he would have information to use.

As for your third, I would not know that. My assumption seemed reasonable since I could think of no other roles that benefit from being the last on the lynch.

[Suzune]

Yes Titus that is true. But, honestly, would you have had I not suggested it? No. No you would not. It is not the first role people think of when scrambling for a fake claim, therefore, if the information did come up, it would probably be true.

Obviously you are no sensor. Someone with that role would have to hint it early hint it often. Otherwise, the town would not believe them.

And yes Pere, I do know that Sinsun is town. His actions make it seem kind of obvious...

[Suzune]

i will be explicit about my info if we massclaim

Your slot is about 2 days overdue for explicit.

His slot is basically confirmed, it is not overdue for anything.

[Suzune]

I am no longer surprised by the odd claims in this game. At this point, I am beginning to think if you claim something boring it might be fake...sad commentary.

[Suzune]

No I did not get motivated to lightning rod another night. Although, I was roleblocked last night, so I could not have taken an action if I wanted to.

[Suzune]

I did not find that my abilities did not fit the character, I was playing though.

[Suzune]

I did not find that my abilities did not fit the character, I was playing though.

Sure, and the same can be said about some of the other dead characters (Jake Sisko, Odo and Kira come to mind). BUT, my point is that clearly it's not a reliable tell. If it were, then Bashir would clearly be a doctor.

Naturally because then obviously villain characters in universe would be obvious villain characters in the game. If you do not mix it up, it will be no fun because name claiming will solve the game for you. What I am mean to suggest is, the name is not totally worthless, just not as helpful as we would like.

[Suzune]

No I did not get motivated to lightning rod another night. Although, I was roleblocked last night, so I could not have taken an action if I wanted to.

Scum have a roleblocker.

So if you're telling the truth, scum blocked you N1.

Well that is a fair opinion, but also possible the town have a roleblocker. I absorbed all the abilities the night I used the lightning bolt and was informed that I could not take an action the following night. I assumed then I absorbed a roleblocked, although to whether it was the town or not is another story.

[Suzune]

I have already sorta claimed. I could claim again if it makes you feel better?

[Suzune]

I'm Q

I'm the town lightning rod and post restriction enabler.

Clearly I already used the lightning bolt ability, however, otherwise that is what I have on the table. Which is pretty much what I said my second power was.

[Suzune]

Titus and Raibi are high on my list of potential suspects. Just because I feel like they sow the seeds of doubt into everyone's plays.

[Suzune]

Titus and Raibi are high on my list of potential suspects. Just because I feel like they sow the seeds of doubt into everyone's plays.

Are you voting for anyone? Let's lynch one of these scum.

I want to vote. But I would really like to know the vote count, so we can see where we are at.

Mafia math...haha, cute

[Suzune]

Vote:Titus

[Suzune]

Clearly it is because you are baiting him...

[Suzune]

Goodness everyone, so much talking. I shall catch up.

[Suzune]

Also, you asked me if I know the case on you. Now you're denying that one exists?

Yes. There isn't one. Certainly not one that gets you to turn around from "critically engage Titus" to sheep voting in a page. It was a test sweetie.

My feelings on you come down to one thing as the major push. The fact that you hardly ever scum hunt and rather spend time saying that everyone else's opinions are nonsense because of whatever reasons. Then you flip and accuse someone on your train of being scum.

[Suzune]

^^ Yeah, you won't sensor my wagon because it's obvious the result you'd have to provide is your buddies are scum.

This assumes of course that he is the sensor, that was just my guess. I thought you said it was a silly claim?

[Suzune]

Sorry, reading through the topics as I go Psyche. When I get to something interesting, I comment on it. Sorry again.

[Suzune]

Titus, I think you are very confused. Peregrine was talking to me and I was talking to Peregrine.

I am not.

PV asked you if you roleblocked him.
You said no, but let me check with the mod to see who I did block and your two shots were used up. How would you know your two shots were used and that you didn't block PV without knowing who you did block?

This is really a bizarre turn of events on the account of Constance. It even sounds confusing. You have to keep you story straight if you are going to lie Constance.

let me check for understanding

-You did not roleblock PV
-But you do not know who you roleblocked...yeah...

I hate to say it but it seems to convenient that all your shots are used. Who would waste them if they were a limited shot roleblocker?

unvote

VOTE: Constance

[Suzune]

Frankly, my biggest scumreads are still Nero and Thor, they haven't done anything to change that but the behavior of everyone else makes me think that I'm wrong.

Probably need to update this, or listen to yourself that your wrong.

Must we respond to everyone's cases like this. Standoffish. It makes this game so remarkably frustrating to read when we conclude posts by shooting each other down rather then working out why the are wrong...so frustrating.

[Suzune]

So, when I finally reached the end. I liked Titus a lot more then when I started. It makes me want to change my opinion on who is scum.

[Suzune]

i need constantine to come into this game and try making town posts

At this point, hiding would further incriminate him.

[Suzune]

Suzune, I think most people would find it more strange if I still had shots on D6.

I had all my shots still when I joined on day 3. And still had them until night four. Considering the number of people who subbed that role. I would not find it odd at all. People know to save things for important moments.

[Suzune]

How does a Priest and a treestump work together though, that severely nerfs the voting power of town and we already had beloved princess too?

I told you I am beginning to wonder about the power roles in this game, everyone's are so odd.

[Suzune]

How does a Priest and a treestump work together though, that severely nerfs the voting power of town and we already had beloved princess too?

Maybe Kling is lying.

I think there is a better chance of that it is a lie. Unless we have a third party who is striping people of their power?

[Suzune]

Sinsun was so proud of his power. I assumed it was something way more helpful...

[Suzune]

Titus I have not commented on your scumminsss in a while. I even mentioned that you are more townie after Having reread it when I changed my vote to Constance.

[Suzune]

You know, being a scum doctor is not fun. I played one once in another game and it is so hard to figure out how to play it properly. So all of those people who were afraid to out the doctor, might now want to out the doctor...

[Suzune]

It seems a bit...powerful?

I'd have my doubts on the claim as well if he had claimed it just today, but hinting at that information 2 days ago seems almost impossible to make up. Because just like clock work, Ika flipped Motivator, Kling claimed Stump, Hermit claimed Roleblocker and that day we didn't know if we even had a doctor 100% yet.

So hinting at 4 roles that popped up in the game in claims long before they were claimed or shown to exist. That sort of thing hardens my town read on PereV. Obviously he asked the right questions, which I am guessing were "What roles are scum?" "What roles are town?" Or something along those lines. It doesn't tell you directly who is scum/town but tells you which roles to expect on both sides.

I have to agree, the convenience of this power is uncanny.

[Suzune]

Well, goodness, glad to know that Sinsun has my death all lined up for this coming night. Honestly, I have never, seen people posts list like that before. Who does that, I have seen people assume that they were going to die, however, I have never had people predict everyone else's death before. Sinsun I assumed you had a good power one that it would prove you were townie is nothing else then that it would prove you, however, your power was lackluster. Although given that most of the powers in this game are odd, but still, it is easily the ability of anyone. I think we are splitting hairs here. Why would this game have two trackers. Either PV asked the wrong question or he made the wrong deduction, or it was a very creative fake claim. However, we as good as knew the Psyche was the tracker so perhaps not the best move...

Sinsun, you are tunneling, too much. To the point where you are either scum or a totally blind townie because you are no longer thinking, both of which are destructive to the town.

@Dave, the lightingbolt was one shot, the post restricter is two shot.

[Suzune]

It seems to all hinge down on whether or not PV is telling the truth. Which is suppose makes sense, the catch is simple.

If scum had made the list, then they would put some scum and some townie roles on it. This guarantees that if the townies choose the scum members on the list it make PV look good. Likewise the list was not made until after everyone had claimed giving him a certain amount of power in making the list because not surprising or new roles appeared on it because that creates a loophole in the plan.

If town, then we know that the name on the list are probably good, assuming of course the way that he got his information.

I never thought I would agree on something like this, but, Titus is probably right. The information is already out, that means that confirming the information could give us the information.

[Suzune]

Anyway:

TREE STUMP

gawd I hate doing this.

So Kling, will the mod reveal your faction upon tree-stumping? If so, it will either prove or disprove PereV, which could blow the entire thing out of the water. My guess though is if the mod does show your faction, it will be scum. Because do explain how PereV knew there was a treestump in the game before you even claimed it if you are town.

Anyway, now that Kling has treestumped. I will hold my vote pending the outcome of this. But I believe it to be one scum vote gone from the game./quote]I disagree why bother doing it if he was not town. In my opinion it would be better for him to continue to put it off and risk the town lynching him then to claim with the ability. Unless he is covering for someone else.

[Suzune]

Hm, if I was the doctor I think I would have tried to save PV. He has the most interesting information and I would not want them to die. A tracker is only valuable if they see someone. Therefore, if you are asking what I would do, it would have been PV. If I was a tracker I probably would have watched Titus. Funny that you would have saved the tracker.

I swear we had a tree stump claimed before he said it. I swear. I will have to go back and look. How precisely do the results of the night action prove the doctor is scum aligned? Unless I missed someone proving the doctor was scum earlier...all because you would have protected the tracker? Listen, the idea is a good one, not the best, but a good choice. It proves a lot of facts and helps the town win. It would clear up the doubt of everyone then we would not have to keep fighting over this.

I will make you a reads list soon. I am cooking dinner.

[Suzune]

@Thor- sounds good

Vote: CDB

I'm

motivated

to find

scum

, but the

doctor

has been doing a shit job, and I think the "

tracker

" is also

scum

, and if he doesn't get lynched, he'll probably be

roleblocked

anyway. It would be nice if I could just

tree stump

myself like that one game, (but I waited too long). Oh well.

You mean this post Sinsun?

I guess, in the end, I do not like a game where one power role can openly disclose all. It takes the life out of it.

[Suzune]

Well that ruins my theory...oh well might as well just lynch everyone on PV's list then. Even though, it is kind of annoying...

[Suzune]

I do agree though that he should not have bothered to claim...

[Suzune]

Sinsun is it not odd to you at all that the Kling used their ability to prove they were mafia. Why would they do that? He would have held it out and kept us guessing. What is the point? I think there is a bigger mafia scheme going on here.

[Suzune]

Listen, I think it is way to easy that PV has all the answers. I mean seriously, that is really way to easy. I kind of disappoints me that a game could be broken by one role. Therefore, I think there is more to it then that.

[Suzune]

We only lynched ika due to my push (I know you disagree) and Constantine because he had an undeniable slip IMO.

Let's forget about the fact you refused to vote off Kling who's alignment was revealed upon being treestumped and better yet giving us an extra mislynch in which you had no part of helping with.

No need to immediately vote him. He is the devil we know. While I will say for certain that mafia in game reveals seem to hurt the town more the anything, the point is we might as well not waste the day and work on who the rest of the mafia is.

[Suzune]

A Doc claim would have me wanting to lynch PV so you should also explain why that makes him town in your mind.

The lack of a doctor claim suggests that he made up the results, no? Perhaps he (PV) is the doctor?

[Suzune]

@Suzune - could you explain the post restriction part of your role?

Yes I have a two shot post restriction. That I actually thought was a day ability until I tried to use. However, for the love of all things sane, I cannot see the value of it. All it says is I am issue any reasonable restriction. I have never seen anyone use this ability before ever, and I cannot think of what is the ideal way to use it. What's the point? I hoped if I sat on it for a long time it would come to me, but alas, I have no ideas. If someone would be open to suggest some ways to do it, I would be more then appreciative.

[Suzune]

How is it that you guys always have so much time in the day? Let me catch up~

[Suzune]

A Doc claim would have me wanting to lynch PV so you should also explain why that makes him town in your mind.

The lack of a doctor claim suggests that he made up the results, no? Perhaps he (PV) is the doctor?

This doesn't make sense to me.
Clarify?

Here's what I am thinking, just hear me out.

Knowing enough of the roles in this game gives one power. The power to claim anything. So if you remember back when I thought that Sinsun might be a sensor, Titus said something about anyone claiming to be a sensor because there was no way to prove the claim. This got to me thinking about the Oracle claim. One does not need to actually be one to claim one. If PV knew there was a doctor, maybe because they were a doctor, it is easy enough to write yourself into your own prediction. Since no one is claiming it either means that no one actually has the doctor role, read as PV has the doctor role, or that actual doctor is one of the people who has not claimed.

[Suzune]

@Suzune - could you explain the post restriction part of your role?

Yes I have a two shot post restriction. That I actually thought was a day ability until I tried to use. However, for the love of all things sane, I cannot see the value of it. All it says is I am issue any reasonable restriction. I have never seen anyone use this ability before ever, and I cannot think of what is the ideal way to use it. What's the point? I hoped if I sat on it for a long time it would come to me, but alas, I have no ideas. If someone would be open to suggest some ways to do it, I would be more then appreciative.

Maybe post restrict Klingon to be unable to post?

What was the power that was roleblocked from you on the night you lighning rodded?

I was roleblocked from being able to post restrict. I imagine it would be unreasonable to me to keep them from posting, the host said it had to be reasonable.

[Suzune]

If it comes down to Riabi or Nero as the last scum, my money's on Riabi.

My money is on Riabi being mafia too. I wanted Nero to to be mafia for a while, but either something cleared him or I realized I was wrong, I would have to go back and check.

[Suzune]

Does the amount of information that goes on behind the scenes in this game drive anyone else crazy?

While it is true Thor that he revealed the roles early. On his initial reveal of them they were not all listed as scum just that they existed it was not until later that they became scum. Now whether or not it was clarified for him later is another point. I apologize I just feel so skeptical about this oracle thing. I feel like it breaks the idea of the game if it is just revealed I mean, why bother playing if we can just go down the list and lynch everyone on it. I guess I just feel put out that it would be so easy and I want there to be a trick somewhere. Some way to prove the town is being played because I just have a bad feeling about it.

[Suzune]

If we are debating Titus's townieness, I think he is town. So personally I do not think that he could be the one lynched today. I know that is what you want Sinsun, but I feel uncertain about it.

-p-edit, everyone decided to post at the same time as me~

[Suzune]

I also support a Raibi lynch, I think it is a good move.

What is the votecount?

p-edit, yes I would also be interested if what you are claiming Titus, because a wise claim might help you case.

[Suzune]

I was waiting for the votecount but yes, I do intend to vote Riabi.

[Suzune]

Assuming that PV is correct

Town to scum
PV
Sinsun
Littlegumball
Thor
Titus
Nero
Raibi

I'm not certain where dave fits and kling is confirmed mafia

Assuming that Titus is town
and PV is scum

Town to scum
Titus
Thor
Nero
Littlegumball
Sunsun
PV

Assuming that PV is correct
and Titus is town

Town
Titus
PV
Thor
Littlegumball
Nero
Raibi
Sinsun

This is sort of the point I am at. I sometimes feel like we are going around and around. We need to figure out one of the main players today, I fear that lynching Raibi will not clear our problem.

[Suzune]

I believe that Thor is town. Do you have a problem with that. Just because you want to vote Titus so bad does not mean you can blame the entire day on me.

[Suzune]

Ah, that is just a bad on my part. the person at the top is the person who's theory it is basically. It is what lead my to my what happens if one or the other is telling the truth thought process. I apologise for the confusion.

[Suzune]

Sorry I am not feeling well, the problem with voting Thor is that no vote eliminate all the problems.

By voting Titus, which I would rather not, that clears up Sinsun's vote and allows them to sort of be more active...maybe...

By voting PV, I alleviate only my own doubts. But you say you have talked with PV making him less likely to be scum...

[Suzune]

I am going to do this. I will not vote Titus Sinsun because I believe that he is probably town. He makes the let logical statements and his arguements are easiest to follow.

PV statements are based on powers and I trust him about as far as I can throw him. But for the moment I am going to operate under the idea that both are town. Opposite though they are, their contrast is what cements them both a town. The confusion they create and the need for the tunnels so cement them as town. This situation looks familiar to me like I have been in it before.

So other then Kling. I am going to vote for Raibi. Let me be very clear. I do not trust you Sinsun and despite your playin style you have fallen very low in my towniness opinion.

VOTE: Raibi

[Suzune]

PV, you quoted the old post not the one from today. I mentioned In my today post that I was going to operate under the assumption that both you and Titus were town. Do not appeal to me.

[Suzune]

Kling, I assumed that my ability was deemed as less threatening and that I would probably never die...

[Suzune]

Yes and no. As mafia if you think the confirmed townie is on your side no matter how confirmed they are you never nightkill them. Likewise if the mafia is forced to claim during the day the town rarely lynches the confirmed mafia because that is the devil they know.

[Suzune]

I feel like pointing out that in the long run Kling will be bad for us because he will warp our opinions on the game so far because that is the advantage to being a claimed mafia. It might be better to just lynch him...

[Suzune]

Given the game situation, I can only assume the choice is between two people.

[Suzune]

Yes but some regardless of their alignment would be poor choices. I will not tell you how to play mafia, there are obvious choices there. I will not guess, because I will not help the mafia win.

[Suzune]

Guessing provides the mafia with information. It says who the townies think is most valuable and who the townies think is least valuable. That is something that interests the mafia and would weigh in their decision to make a kill.

[Suzune]

Listen, I love being mafia and I have only had one chance of ever being mafia on mafiascum. The control of information is the most important part of being mafia, that an manipulating the opinions of the townies. A good lie is 95% truth. So the mafia needs to be wise in order to fully control the town. Asking for information from the town is insight into where they are. While that kind of information can be read from posts, it is not the same as saying "who do you think the mafia should vote off the island." This encourages the townies to act actively against on another and allows them to brew a inner hatred which will dismantle the town's perceptions of one another. Plus any mafia that we do not currently know to be mafia, can use this to actively manipulate the town. Thus, while I think you kill rests between two. I would never voice who because in the even I am right or wrong, I will not shoot moral more then it always is. I hoped by actively speaking against you no other townies would respond to your bait and thus protect us from igniting war within.

[Suzune]

Oh, I wanted Sin to be scum moving towards the end. I grandstanded about how the town should not play games with Kling as mafia and choose sides with who should die. Then he crept in at the last minute and commented on it anyway, with a silly choice. I saw red for a minute and I thought, he might be mafia. Didn't matter because I died, but I was the smart choice at that time.

[Suzune]

Oh, I wanted Sin to be scum moving towards the end. I grandstanded about how the town should not play games with Kling as mafia and choose sides with who should die. Then he crept in at the last minute and commented on it anyway, with a silly choice. I saw red for a minute and I thought, he might be mafia. Didn't matter because I died, but I was the smart choice at that time.

We were planning on getting Titus lynched and Nk'ing Dave or Gumball, then endgaming with lots of wifom between Sinsun and Perev.

I assumed since I was fence sitting and could go either way, I was the easy target since everyone else had passionate feelings.

[Suzune]

Hey, i explained why I thought so. Don't just read the parts you like. You played with Kling when I advised it was bad for the town. That is what made me really doubt you.