Star Trek Deep Space Nine Season 1 Mafia(game over!)

Titus · Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:47 am

That's not "giving me a chance" to be town but giving me the chance to obey your desires.

Titus · Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:34 pm

Let's see here. I led the successful charge in ika. Lead the charge on Constantine. I was a counter to know scum that slipped. I stopped scum from doctor fishing and you still think I am scum? That's fake.

Titus · Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:41 pm

In post 4234, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 4057, Thor665 wrote:@Pere - I would also like to hear your other questions. So far you have revealed two questions and two answers - give me the other questions, you can hold out on the answers if you'd like. But I want/need to see those questions, because I now have some issues.

I have reveled 2 hypothetical questions.

I am 2shot, and my questions are not limited to yes or no, but they do have the limits I already discussed.

Given that, it's easy to imagine the 2 questions I asked.

The results of the first answer are given already, as a crumb in case of my untimely death.
Code: Select all
[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7032304#p7032304]post 2930[/url], PeregrineV"]
[color=#000000]I'm [/color][color=#000040]motivated[/color] [color=#000000]to find [/color][color=#000040]scum[/color][color=#000000], but the[/color] [color=#000040]doctor[/color] [color=#000000]has been doing a shit job, and I think the "[/color][color=#000040]tracker[/color][color=#000000]" is also[/color] [color=#000040]scum[/color][color=#000000], and if he doesn't get lynched, he'll probably be [/color][color=#000040]roleblocked[/color] [color=#000000]anyway. It would be nice if I could just[/color] [color=#000040]tree stump[/color] [color=#000000]myself like that one game, (but I waited too long). Oh well.[/color][/quote]
It's all coloration, but might be seen when quoting me. I think Dave mentioned different color schemes affecting it also.

The roleblocker is scum.
The treestump is scum.
The tracker is scum.
The motivator is scum.
The doctor is scum.

Once ika actually flipped and my information could be trusted (by me), I asked the second most obvious question.
Suzune is town.
Psyche is conditional, and when that showed up, thereby clearing up why the scum tracker didn't try to counterclaim RIP/Psyche.
Sinsun is priest, which I crumbed at least twice in repsonses to him. Since he mentioned hammering, it wasn't hard to figure out what role he was as soon as I got my answer.
Thor is town
I am town
Gumball is town from the Narinian clear.
There is one more town PR.
It's not a doctor.
Town also enjoys 2 scoops of
Vanilla
ice cream.
If Gumball is not the last PR, then the last PR can claim, and the rest can be safely lynched.

First things first, you added two shot to your claim. You act as if I'd forget InuYasha. Please sweetie.

Second, In your setup, scum has two methods of avoiding kills but town only has a two shot vig. What the fuck does any of that do for scum?

Third, There is no evidence of LG being a Barn check. That's HI and Thor.

Fourth, You are doing jumping jacks to keep the claimed tracker as town when your thing has him as scum.

Fifth, scum have daychat = easier to plan fake crumbs.

Titus · Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:32 pm

Oh and sixth, why didn't you ask what roles town has? That would give scum a death sentence in a massclaim if you were town.

Titus · Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:53 pm

In post 4281, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4278, Titus wrote:Lead the charge on Constantine.

*cough*
You did what in the where now?
I lead that charge - blatantly.
What are you trying to fake sell now? Because you were a townish read for me up until this load.

You were first on. No doubt about that. You could probably be described as a co leader, but I clearly pushed Constantine hard. You could argue survivalism sure, but I wanted constantine dead.

Titus · Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:54 pm

In post 4282, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4280, Titus wrote:Oh and sixth, why didn't you ask what roles town has? That would give scum a death sentence in a massclaim if you were town.

He openly claimed to have done this.

No he asked verification of Suzune's role in the post I quoted I believe. Can you show me your interpretation?

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:47 am

@PerV, The Tracker is scum right?

VOTE: PerV

Mod: Can you tell us the track conditions?

I need to do VCA. No one hammer until it is done.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:46 pm

Sinsun, Klingon's logic is pretty good actually. You seemed more focused on clearing yourself an automatically sheeping whatever PerV says. You've been attempting to create dichotomies that aren't based in fact or logic. PerV and I (while being unaligned pairs) a town flip on me doesn't condemn PerV, nor does a townflip on PerV condemn me.

Second, PerV's claim has holes in it. First, PerV says the conditional tracker may be town, but in the same post says the "tracker is scum" with no quantifers. That leaves a lot of wiggle room. Next, his claim has scum with a full doctor and a treestump to avoid two killing deaths, one of which can be absorbed by a lightning rod possibly. That much protection doesn't make sense for scum as its way more than what town appears to have. Thor and I disagree on what PerV asked, but he can clarify it himself by highlighting what the last town PRs are (if he knows). Furthermore, PerV and Sinsun tried to push the doctor to claim being the doctor "because scum could catch them", yet when I refused to claim (proving or disproving my status as doctor), the doctor suddenly became a scum role. Given a scum doctor would give town less protective power than scum, I'm more inclined to believe a) the doctor is town or b) the doctor does not exist (wifom, not disavowing doctor possibilites but stating what is possible and what can be deduced).

Third, Klingon's point is logically legit. If you cannot be scum due to scum not being able to hammer being bad, then Klingon shouldn't be scum because she would logically lose the ability to vote at some point.

Fourth, you continue to go down the same argument pushing the same points despite me being a known counterwagon to scum.

If you are town, you should have reset some point last night. Yet, you are proceeding as if the Hermit flip never happened after a grave reluctance to even discuss Hermit yesterday.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:47 pm

Sinsun, Why aren't you considering the possibility that PerV's claim is totally fake?

You considered the possibility of him being totally truthful, then you consider him bussing, but not once do you consider it being fake and you never have. That reeks of buddying.

VOTE: Sinsun

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:49 pm

@Perv, Did you deduce what roles were on the scumteam based on a flavor narrative or did the mod specifically tell you something along the lines of

[Scum have the following PR roles: roleblocker, motivator, etc...]

OR

[Scum have the look of angels, the spirit of two men ... blah blah blah]

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:00 pm

In post 4304, davesaz wrote:Further question for Pere: Did your oracle role have limited shots?

He's already claimed. 2 shot. One was asking what PR roles the scumteam had. The other was either (is there a town lightning rod [my interpretation]) or (what PR roles does town have [Thor's interpretation].

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:40 pm

In post 4307, davesaz wrote:
In post 4305, Titus wrote:
In post 4304, davesaz wrote:Further question for Pere: Did your oracle role have limited shots?

He's already claimed. 2 shot. One was asking what PR roles the scumteam had. The other was either (is there a town lightning rod [my interpretation]) or (what PR roles does town have [Thor's interpretation].

I had a specific reason for asking. In the future please don't interfere.

Fair enough. It was already answered, otherwise I would not have interfered.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:07 pm

@Thor, I was a CW to Augustine.

I don't define CWs in terms of chronology. That's a semantic and time debate. The fact is that scum had to choose between mislynching me or voting Augustine. That to me is a CW. If you need evidence of my definition, just look at any game where I analyze the vote counts. Speaking of that, I need to do my VCA here.

I saw PereV's plan as to lynch me and Hermit slip was unplanned. They couldn't figure out how to handle it, so they figured it best to try to have people ignore Hermit's slip and try to bolster PV's claim. Yet, the way that Sinsun opened gives me minute doubts about PereV being scum, just due to the way she's treating his claimed as confirmed true.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:19 pm

@Thor,

Lynching PerV is better than Klingon. PerV confirmed Klingon as scum if he's town and gathers much more information about the setup if we are wrong. Lynching Klingon and being wrong just nets us PerV scum. Lynching PerV and getting scum shows that PerV was trying to buddy/sneak through a buddy. Lynching Klingon and getting scum doesn't confirm PerV's information as true, as you said he could be bussing.

None. Scum were already on my wagon PerV. Town wouldn't vote me, because of Hermit's slip. CW's are about the choices town and scum making, not chronology of specific votes.

I don't know what you mean by a "Three Stooges Team". I'm familiar with who the three stooges are, but I don't how that applies to mafia.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:21 pm

In post 4318, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4301, Titus wrote:Fourth, you continue to go down the same argument pushing the same points despite me being a known counterwagon to scum.

And since you're talking to Sinsum here and not throwing that in his face...

Pronoun usage makes this impossible to follow.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:24 pm

That is the pronoun which confused me.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:29 pm

@Suinsin, PereV never voted Hermit despite "knowing" the roleblocker was scum, and now you're giving him credit for bussing Hermit, unless I am misunderstanding your pronouns there. The other interpretation is that you're doubting me as scum, but I don't see that interpretation jiving with the rest of your post.

I don't have to scumread PerV if I scumread you unless PerV's answer follows Thor's interpretation. If it follows mine, PerV can be town while you are scum.

I also find it funny you harp on me calling you she and get frustrated about it, yet mistake my gender. It's also by my avatar which is a woman for the record.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:49 pm

@Sinsun,

You don't have to be the first or last on a wagon to "lead" it. Timing is semantics. Leading is about the choices made and the wagons people want dead. Thor lead it but I pushed conversation around that wagon while you were hellbent on mislynching me and ignoring Hermit even existed. For liking Thor's posting, you're certainly ignoring his #4312.

Not sure what you claim makes zero sense. Pronouns again.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:24 pm

@Thor,

In a lylo/mylo + 1 mislynched situation, which I believe is the situation we have here, the more information the cop has the more objectively they should be the lynch. If it's one guilty, toss up. Two results (assuming no GF), lean towards cop all things being considered. If the cop is game breaking, lynch the cop. Sometimes, the cop lies.

Without the mislynched to spare, the cop gives better ideas on what the teams are. Cop claims and votes early.

Here we have a setup, where if PV is right, his lynch settles the game. Klingon is confscum. Then we mass claim. If PV is scum, then we save ourselves a huge headache.

If we lynchKlingon, we don't know if PV was bussing or honest if scum. If Klingon flips town, we gave scum a free setup mislynched based on something full of swiss cheese holes and get PV scum.

TLDR: Klingon flip doesn't confirm anything about PV's setup claims.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:37 pm

Yes, if Pere is town and Oracle, I would support a massclaim. I just think he's full of shit.

I doubt Pere is town and fake claiming at this point. I would expect him to revoke or change it beyond mere shots. The changing from unlimited o two shots irks the fuck of of me.

We can't have Pere give us another result, he is out of questions.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:04 pm

Scum can prepare fakeclaims. Doubly so if they can ask what our PRs are.

Titus · Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:43 pm

PV didn't orchestrate any bus Thor. He was off ika and Hermit. #confused

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:40 am

Dave, if PV was deliberately bussing, he would have said.. Ooh roleblocker claim and voted it. He also would have made sure we knew in no uncertain terms that Hermit was scum. Instead, getting him to talk about Hermit was like pulling teeth. That's not consistent with a bus.

As for lynching PV, I think he's scum (but not as likely as Sinsun). If PV is telling the truth, lynching him gets us a confscum, and a mass claim breaking strategy similar to Playing With Elements. Provided there is one PR remaining and two vts, scum create two definite pools based on their fake claim. I would presume Klingon wouldn't bother with a fakeclaim.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:10 am

@Thor, These VCs need work. I just looked and I didn't see PV on Hermit. Still that was a forced hand vote at best. The Hermit slip did not appear planned, nor was it advantageous. If it was planed, as you are proposing, then it only would have happened if they though scum was going to be lynched anyway. If they thought I was going to be a mislynched, there is zero reason for a coordinated slip.

I am explaining his crumb. He's setting up a narrative. I do this all the time as scum. If you know your fake claim is X, then you can crumb accordingly.

PereV gives more information if I am wrong, Sinsun got a vote, Klingon's case was at least valid, and his behavior is scummier. All things being equal, I would vote Pere.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:11 am

Yet all things are not equal.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:41 am

@Thor, the rb thing is precisely what I was talking about when I said the slip.

Also, there's exit hatches. Crumb, set it up. If he townreads Hermit, you'd bet your ass we would be hearing about the distinction between 2 shot roleblocker and roleblocker.

I am not sure how I am being wispy or ghostish at all. I think this is another case of town (you) not wanting to follow the better EV play because it disagrees with your worldview. I just finished the same situation in Dating game. Persivul used the same rationale you did here despite me being clear open and honest about the better play.

Lynching PV guarantees us a scum lynch within two days. So if you're playing based on EV, that's where your vote should go. Klingon gets nothing.

I meant Sinsun's behavior was scummier in my last post. Misplaced modifier.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:57 am

@Thor, You mean other than the absolute tunnel on my slot, melodrama, her "withholding" the use of her priest ability on me, her complaint about her team not having any mislynched plus the tunnel on me, her wking of Pere.

I do agree that both PV and Kligon are unlikely to be town. Yet, lynching Klingon and she flips scum doesn't confirm Pere as telling the truth. He could be bussing Klingon. That would allow Pere to slip through the cracks because he told us the role of his scumbuddies. We would still have the "was Pere bussing debate". As a practical matter, a changing number of shots is a policy scumread to me since InuYasha. You pulled the same stunt in Aero's game and I immediate ly voted you. If Pere is town, scum are unlikely to shoot Pere because it confirms Pere as telling the truth.

If deciding between Pere and Klingon, I would vote PereV.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:49 am

@Sinsun, Unless you coordinated with Thor, I find it highly unlikely that you were involved in any sort of trap.

Second, I have already explained that lynching PV nets us scum or a bunch of information and a scum to lynch the following day.

Third, a doctor could have picked Suinsun or Thor.

I have been voting PV or Sinsun whichever is larger.

Fourth, if PV is scum, outright tunnelling PV = doctor claim = scum can then pick off the rest of the town.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:13 am

@Sinsun, Read my last fucking post. I am not going in circles with you.

PerV lynch creates a Playing with Elements breaking scenario. It will tell me a lot if Daveaz refuses to vote PerV.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:01 am

@Sinsun, Confirming PV as honest gets you the massclaim, which you pushed for, a Klingon lynch, which you wanted, and the ability to setup break based on a game where I have done that.

You made that same let's just lynch who I want because I am town reading a bunch of people yesterday. That would have resulted in a dead town Titus. Why should I follow you when lynching PV is game breaking regardless of his alignment?

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:02 am

VOTE: PV

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:03 am

In post 4361, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 4358, Titus wrote:@Sinsun, Read my last fucking post. I am not going in circles with you.

PerV lynch creates a Playing with Elements breaking scenario. It will tell me a lot if Daveaz refuses to vote PerV.

Hey Titus, remember when you were town and logical?

In post 2074, Titus wrote:
In post 2071, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:I don't get how I am confirmed town. You guys throw that word around to much. It is pretty obvious when you are confirmed or not.

The dead doctor claimed they healed you N1 and there's a missing kill from N1. You're the closest thing to a confirmed townie we can have at this point for that reason.

And that game was much more complex.....

I was logical in Dating game. We needed a guaranteed scum flip there. I got it.

We need your alignment confirmed. And it you're town, we are going to have a long fucking talk.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:06 am

Sorry missed that.

All of those things together paint a picture of scum who is trying to force a narrative rather than scumhunt.

Sinsun said she couldn't be scum because scum couldn't have a role that lacked hammer power. Yet, she thinks Klingon, a role that can remove its own vote power, cannot be town. That doesn't make sense.
Sinsun has been pushing an agenda that scum only have so many mislynches left. It seems to reflect more of her mindset that she only has so many players she can safely push on.
Town Whiteknight when we have a reason to believe the player is town. Yet, I don't see that investigation and then reaching a conclusion from Sinsun.

I disagree on the order, which I have said a lot. In terms of long term game strategy, Pere is the better flip.

I do consider your action, the actions by Y n B in InuYasha, and your actions in the game we referenced as the same. YnB technically supplemented after implying it was full shot for days. Here, PV waits forever to say oh by the way I'm two shot.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:06 am

PerV an answer to how the mod told you the scum roles would also be beneficial please.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:26 am

In post 4375, davesaz wrote:I know why you can't neighborize tonight.

Wrong game?

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:40 am

@Thor,

First paragraph, agree to disagree. I think part of that may be fueled by me knowing I'm town for now.

Except you haven't. Klingon lynch =/= PerV as town, even if she is scum. I'm not townreading Klingon. The Klingon push is the same recycled push on me for the same ZOMG so many town reasons. I don't see any reason to lynch Klingon other than to prove the theory. Yet, if that's why we're lynching PerV is a better lynch.

I wouldn't have slowrolled the information. We had a huge debate about massclaim. No reveal. If his goal was to catch scum, then he'd be much better of stating I know all the roles in the game. We are massclaiming. Scum would be just as "caught" either way. They claim their real role, then they are busted. By pretending to not know anything and pushing for massclaim to find the doctor, it looks disingenous, like he's explaining why he was caught rolefishing for the doctor. The scum know all the scum roles, it's the nature of being scum. If massclaim didn't happen (as it shouldn't because only people who know Pere's town and have Pere's info should push for massclaim), then he should be aware that resistance to his plan is townie. I would have sat on the information until I had a roleblocker or a tracker claim and voted it, as PereV was in no danger of death.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:41 am

In post 4378, Thor665 wrote:@Titus;

For my stance.

I am not of a mind to lynch Pere today.
Nor Sinsum.
I am also against lynching Suzune, Gumball, and Dave.
To my mind they are currently, if not confirmed, not viable lynch options.

So, that leaves Nero, Riabi, Klingon, and you.
Of that grouping I find Klingon by a solid margin the most suspect.
Probably you are next, with the other two lingering in the back edge.

So talk to me about lynched from that lynch pool - since you seem aware that I am basically confirmed town (or relatively close to it) as both a Cop and Pere have tried to protect me and probably at least one of them has PR info on that, not to mention my role, and my play.

So talk to me from that set - since you'll rule yourself out it gives you 3 people to find 1-2 partners to Sinsum and Pere, yeah?

Great, you want to lynch town. *eyeroll* I don't want a me, Klingon, Riabli, you, Suzune or Dave lynch.\
I want to lynch Sinsun, PerV, Gumball, or if I stretched and there wasn't a shot in hell Nero (just because of his utter silence lately).

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:57 am

@Thor, I'm looking at the long term road, not short term. If this was a lylo decision and those were my options, I'm not sure what I would do.

PerV hasn't handed us a single scum lynch. Hermit imploded. Plus, all scum need is one player left alive at the end.

Your inability to think long term is frankly startling but not alignment indicative as Persivul did the same thing in Mafia Dating Game. I was chastised for wanting the guaranteed scum flip. Here, I want the game breaking flip. If PerV does flip town (which I doubt he will), then we lynch Klingon and massclaim.

Occam's Razor says you get the facts and not assumptions. The assumptions PereV wants are convinent, but they are assumptions, just like Walking Dead.

It's easy to vote with the guy who kisses your ass.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:58 am

In post 4386, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4382, davesaz wrote:
In post 4234, PeregrineV wrote:
There is one more town PR.
It's not a doctor.
Town also enjoys 2 scoops of
Vanilla
ice cream.
If Gumball is not the last PR, then the last PR can claim, and the rest can be safely lynched.

If there is a town doctor then this is a lie and PV is scum.

If no town doctor, then the scum doc saved Suzune (perhaps inadvertently) and PV is telling the truth. If he's telling the truth and is scum then it's a really ballsy truth, to have outed multiple scum roles. So I think town is much more likely.

Pedit: Thor, I have a yes/no question for you as well. Do you have a role with actions?

@Dave - I see no value in trying to rob me of that info, Pere has called me town, I'd focus on the Titus, Riabi, Nero question if I was you, myself.

@Titus - also wanted to quote this. Like, if we had a town Doc, they would know Pere was scum at this point. And they sat back and let a lynch he helped push and voted on go through on a claimed town PR. That was really terrible play for theory Doc.

How about we lynch Klingon, and if a town Doc claims or dies anytime in the near future then we can debate lynching Pere?

@Thor, you see that you don't like Dave fishing you for info. Nor do I. Yet, PerV's claim (gee all the PRs that have claimed are town) seems structured to get the last PR to claim and get information out that way. Claiming is bad. Let's not help scum anymore than we already have.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:00 pm

In post 4389, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4387, Titus wrote:Occam's Razor says you get the facts and not assumptions. The assumptions PereV wants are convinent, but they are assumptions, just like Walking Dead.

Ockham's razor is about assessing assumptions.

Yours require vastly more contrivance than mine, and are thus ruled less likely.
Then you sit around with a paranoid theory and act like I'm playing badly because I don't want to test it first over the more likely reality with a razor thin debate as to why it would even be better in any case.

No. Mine requires no assumptions.

Zero posts. PV claims if he's town, here's the setup. Klingon claims Town Treestump. (Here's a hint, that should be enough to discuss lynching Pere without a doctor claiming).

Just do a punnet. Take out the prior lynches (which PV never really pushed, even after Constantine slipped, he still wanted me lynched).

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:01 pm

Motivations are not a part. Just break the game. To do that, it's lynching PV not Klingon.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:09 pm

@Thor, Day 1 I subbed into a boned scum slot. The only people I fingered as scum were my buddies. One buddy was lynched the next day, the other coasted to victory after my death. I'm fully open to PV doing the same stunt when things get to be more difficult for the scumteam at this point. If I am capable of it, so is scum.

I can't give a specific concrete theory regarding which players are scum beyond Suinsun and PereV are likely buddies but Suinsun leaves me open that she's a godfather type scum. *shrug* If we're so trusting of PV, PV should out what the final town PR is. If no one is that role, we lynch PV.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:20 pm

@DaveAZ, yes I don't talk about ongoing.

A punnet square is where you take all four possibilities and line them into a chart. I'm using two charts because I don't get how to do vertical labeling.. For instance a punnet for PV Klingon looks like this FMPOV.

Lynch PV

PV Town
Klingon town	Klingon scum
Impossible unless PV is lying town, which is revealed by his flip	We get a scum flip tomorrow and confirm PV's setup is true

PV Scum
Klingon town	Klingon scum
We mislynch KT, confirm PV as full of shit.	PV looks like he's bussing but sneaks past us.

Lynch Klingon

Klingon Town
PV town	PV scum
Impossible unless PV is lying town	We get a scum flip tomorrow and confirm PV's setup is bullshit

Klingon Scum
PV town	Klingon scum
We get a scumflip, PV's setup is unknown to be true	Could be dual bus.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:28 pm

Just like I was sure scum yesterday right and we actually lynched scum over your objection. The more you say that, the less I want to vote Klingon.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:41 pm

Drunk Titus is back... Weeeeeeeeeeeeee

Seriously though Suinsuin, there's plenty of obvtown reads and you're bitching about a doc picking the wrong one?

PV, that's the problem. I'm worried that you're bussing your scumbuddies to be conftown in lylo.

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:42 pm

That or fabricating in a manner unlikely to be caught but hey...

let's just dismiss Titus as paranoid #drunk

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:59 pm

I'm drunk but is this you claiming scum Klingon?

Titus · Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:31 pm

So PV's alignment according to you is...

Your whole read list is...

Titus · Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:34 am

Ok so Klingon is confirmed mafia. So we confirmed that PerV gave a few accurate flips. Boo hoo.

My thoughts though, why would Klingon knowingly activate her treestump knowing that confirms her as mafia to the group? The only reason to do that is to make PerV look good FMPoV. Scum Klingon can just be lynched, caused more disruption in the town and die.

Titus · Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:53 am

@Sinsun, that's my point. Klingon's not a total newbie. She would have known that stumping would have confirmed herself as scum, so why would she? Mafia is a game of information, and whatever she wanted to hide or reveal was worth an extra mislynch to the town.

To me, that indicates PerV is scum and Klingon's wanting things out of the way to mislynch me. Given that we have two mislynches, the proper play right now is to have PV out what the final PR is in his next post. Then, we do PR and VT massclaim. In the event I am wrong and PV is town, a PR and VT massclaim should narrow down how many town and scum are in a given pool. PV said there are two VTs and one PR left outstanding in a group of four. If PV is accurate, this forces scum to have to craft a narrative for the PR without actually knowing who they are counterclaiming. It also greatly limits daychat's effectiveness in disrupting claims.

The PRs then fullclaim and compare their answers with what PV claims, starting with the scummiest PR claimers if there's two.

Then, we lynch PV to confirm or deny whether his results are accurate. We have the mislynch to spare and a scumteam with half a brain wouldn't shoot PV.

Titus · Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:11 am

@NC, the track conditions would matter in reviewing to see if he left crumbs. *shrug*

@Sinsun, I don't trust your word for shit. I'm going to actually engage people who engage me back like Suzune and Thor.

Titus · Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:51 am

@Suinsun, why make that paragraph about what you'd do if I was town and wanting me to accept things as true? It sure seems you care what I think.

@Suzune, what do you think of my plan?

Titus · Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:04 pm

I am not sure, but I am leaning towards it. The odds of two doc saves a minimal at best but I just don't like the thought of handing scum free reign on who they kill. Yet with this many people getting two doc saves is difficult.

Titus · Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:51 pm

@Thor, I'm not even sure what your method is.

A doctor is the most powerful town role and someone who I usually feel should be protected at all costs. Selling a doctor up the river in exchange for one scum isn't exactly something I want to do lightly. I'm starting to think no one is going to claim doctor though anyway so :S

Titus · Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:05 pm

@Thor,

We only lynched ika due to my push (I know you disagree) and Constantine because he had an undeniable slip IMO.

We disagree on theory, and you're pretty much the only player I listen to on disagreements.

If no one claims doctor, a doctor might just not exist, thus making PereV scum.

But fine, let's do it. Doc claim. It's not me.

Titus · Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:06 pm

Grandma, you should totally try to persuade me of things. That's part of the fun as outed scum. Having everyone know you're scum and still fucking with minds.

Titus · Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:10 pm

Read 4459 again. I literally just claimed not doctor.

Titus · Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:20 pm

In post 4469, LittleGumball wrote:
In post 4459, Titus wrote:If no one claims doctor, a doctor might just not exist, thus making PereV scum.

This statement is just wrong. A town doctor not existing does not mean that Pere must be scum. A town doctor that DOES exist would make him scum.

I was saying no doctor existing makes PerV scum because his theory requires a scum doctor.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:11 am

In post 4471, davesaz wrote:No doctor would only be possible if the lightning rod is bulletproof, or no kills were submitted.

Or the lightning rod is scum, which I am finding increasingly unlikely but it's still possible.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:59 am

Thor, no.

If PV is town, Suinsun an still be scum. PV hasn't outed the last town role. Plus godfather.

Suinsin hasn't done anything protown so I would believe Godfather Priest, as awkward as it may seem before Suinsun town.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:02 am

Nope. PV scum means no doc claim. So PV + Suinsun means no doc claim.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:14 am

PV scum likely knows there's no doctor. So he claims scum have one. Then, he can put a buddy in the town section while town try to find the doctor that doesn't exist.

Given we know Klingon is a treestump, what use do scum have with a doctor barring PV/Suzune scum?

PV is claiming a full doctor for scum versus a 2 shot vig...

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:58 am

Suinsin. Until Suinsin starts scumhunting, I'm not playing her game. If Thor asks, I'll answer but I'm not helping scum or my inadvertent suspects figure out who is mislynchable. FYPOV, you should have an opinion on that PV. Here's a hint, the same reason I suspect Sinsun is the reason you should favor lynching one of those two.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:27 am

In post 4492, LittleGumball wrote:
In post 4483, Titus wrote:PV scum likely knows there's no doctor. So he claims scum have one. Then, he can put a buddy in the town section while town try to find the doctor that doesn't exist.

If he was scum, how would he know for sure there's no town doctor? I don't know what solution you're trying to suggest here.

PV is claiming a full doctor for scum versus a 2 shot vig...

If I remember from my reading, Senator said he had a shot refunded, I don't know what for though, and I don't think he knew what for either. Maybe he was either roleblocked or targeted the same person the scum doctor did, and the mod decided beforehand that if his shot somehow misses he gets it back since there's only 2 shots?

We're on Day 7. There's no missing scum kill. Give me a break... plus, if he can ask the mod about town roles.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:31 am

Bar Sinsun from talking about Titus for a dayphase so that we could actually see if she's scumhunting at all.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:37 am

Thor, that's a bad idea. We would rather force Klingon's slot to only post readwalls or game related content. Let's force her to actually give us information. Even if it's layered in wifom, it's information.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:38 am

@Thor,

According to that votecount, the correct play there is to lynch Nero/Sinsun if you believe PV. Nero has all the same problems as Sinsun does but for attacking PV. That's the ONLY thing those two can talk about. A wagon on scum is likely to have one scum. Lickety is much less likely to take like that if there's not a competing scum wagon. I know I'm a bit at fault for the LQ result but that's what I see.

If the LQ wagon disbanded due to LQ's AtE (given how much mafiascum is a sucker for that) it was a real possibility. One scum naturally stays behind as they don't want to all be caught with their pants down if Riabli is the lynch.

I don't buy Pere as town, but if I did that's what I'd do.

Titus · Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:46 am

In post 4513, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 4512, Titus wrote:@Thor,

According to that votecount, the correct play there is to lynch Nero/Sinsun if you believe PV. Nero has all the same problems as Sinsun does but for attacking PV. That's the ONLY thing those two can talk about. A wagon on scum is likely to have one scum. Lickety is much less likely to take like that if there's not a competing scum wagon. I know I'm a bit at fault for the LQ result but that's what I see.

If the LQ wagon disbanded due to LQ's AtE (given how much mafiascum is a sucker for that) it was a real possibility. One scum naturally stays behind as they don't want to all be caught with their pants down if Riabli is the lynch.

I don't buy Pere as town, but if I did that's what I'd do.

Knowing Sinsun isn't being lynched, your ok with a Nero lynch?

I'm not "ok" with anyone but you two being lynched, as I think this is an elaborate setup. You've fake claimed so many times as town, so why wouldn't you do it as scum?

I'm just playing along with Thor's assumptions so maybe somehow when they're wrong they prove you as the scum you are. I can't do anything TO prove it, but I am pretty sure that you or Sinsun is scum. Either that or Sinsun absolutely 100% gamethrows and I have major boy who cried wolf syndrome on you.

Titus · Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:12 am

And that is why I want Suinsun to be godfather. There's nothing that requires PerV to be scum if I flip town. I merely think PerV is. Mislynching PerV and myself is an excellent method for a scum win.

PerV should out the last role.

Titus · Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:52 pm

^^ Can we lynch Sinsun? I fucking HATE her recent posting.

Titus · Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:11 pm

In post 4541, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4532, Thor665 wrote:Would it make you feel better to know he already has to me, and I've already spotted the player with the role and have reasonable belief in its backtrackability at this point insomuch as if it's a fake - then scum arranged it very much in a convoluted and pre-planned method?

Because if the answer is 'no' then what's the need to have the role discussed?

And if the answer is 'yes' then where are your reads at the new moment?

@Titus

Thor, just because you've spotted something, doesn't mean scum have. There's a faulty premise there.

The townie outs the role, assuming their is one, PV can match it.

I've already answered what happens if PV is town.

Titus · Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:36 pm

I have already answered that.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:18 am

In post 4547, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4543, Titus wrote:
In post 4541, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4532, Thor665 wrote:Would it make you feel better to know he already has to me, and I've already spotted the player with the role and have reasonable belief in its backtrackability at this point insomuch as if it's a fake - then scum arranged it very much in a convoluted and pre-planned method?

Because if the answer is 'no' then what's the need to have the role discussed?

And if the answer is 'yes' then where are your reads at the new moment?

@Titus

Thor, just because you've spotted something, doesn't mean scum have. There's a faulty premise there.

No it isn't - what I'm asking is how that reacts with your apparent demand to have Pere claim the role. If we establish that he has and it has been "confirmed" what does that accomplish for your read of Pere?

Very Little. It just eliminates fake claiming. He could be scum real claiming. Yet, if we are going the setup spec route, eliminating possibilities for his play is best.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:26 am

@Thor - Finally the seeds of someone else getting VCA.

I will raise the counterpoint in interests of discussion. LQ was a BP, which gave scum an extra night. Wouldn't that be better than lynching you? Also wouldn't Titus know how to dodge VCA as scum?

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:49 am

@Thor, who said anything about vigilantes?

If we're assuming scum have day chat, then we should assume that if one is capable, they all are. Second, I tend to be the face of any scum team I would be on pulling puppet strings. Third, I have taught Klingon a lot ( well I have shockingly never rolled group scum in a game she's in) so expect some wild maneuvers from her is not far off.

I highlight that the VCA doesn't clear me for the same reason that I highlight that most everyone that has been labeled conftown is merely prob town and if we remove faulty logic, then we get the right answer.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:57 am

Thor I just said that I never rolled group scum in a game she has been in, so I couldn't educate her on that specific premise directly. Yet, she's aware of my general thought processes of viewing the game like a puzzle and doing your homework and that would include her knowing I rely on VCA as town.

Much like you were one of my first ICs I pick things up from your play style, but you wouldn't explicitly teach me everything.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:58 am

@Thor, the vca also would clear Titus plus Riabli unless you thought the mass jumping scenario occurred.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:08 am

@Thor, then we're on the same page.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:11 am

@Thor, why don't you take a crack at VCA and then we discuss it? I would do it but Sinsun would just shout it down.

I've already answered that if we're not lynching Pere/Sinsun, that I would desire Nero and Riabli. Support is too strong. I only support PV and Sinsun flipping.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:13 am

Show me any scum hunting from Sinsun lately. Repeating I am scum over and over is not scum hunting.

No scum hunting + tunneling on known town (my pov) = scummy
Taking credit for lynches she had nothing to do with = scummy
Overselling her role = scummy

I don't see anything "townie" she has done.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:16 am

For the sake of repeating myself

I think PV Sinsun and if I needed another LG.

Or

Nero Riabli and if I needed another LG.

I like you and Suzune as obvtown. Dave also looks townie.

I don't think LG was copped but you were Thor.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:19 am

In post 4575, Thor665 wrote:I don't care whether Sinsun is playing "good" I care whether he is playing scummy or not.
Don't waste my time with alignment neutral debate unless you can show that, as town, Sinsun doesn't play like this.

Are you saying I need to do VCA to get you to want to lynch Riabi?
I fail to follow.

So basically you're wanting me to use garbage meta? That's a wifom waste of time. If she did tunnel as town, she could emulate it as scum, particularly if PV artificially narrows the pool. Meta is shit.

I am saying you might be capable of doing a decent VCA and if you do it, most everyone would believe it was town motivated. If I did it, it would be treated as garbage, even with the same results.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:20 am

In post 4577, Thor665 wrote:So, Riabi is in 50% of your scumteams.

To repeat myself - would you support a Riabi lynch today, especially with the awareness that no one besides you appears to support the Pere/Sinsun lynch concept.

And I say again, I don't care if I am alone. Pere and Sinsun are the smart lynches. The others are reads if those two are dumbass town. I don't support any lynch but those two.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:21 am

If you're playing percentages, you could argue LG is on all my scum teams.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:31 am

So basically, what do I need to do to show they are scum? Die and flip town? I would rather not.

My answer is clear. The only lynches I support are PV and Sinsun. No one has provided a decent argument for PV being town beyond his claim, which you seem reluctant to prove.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:22 am

In post 4589, Thor665 wrote:@Titus - unless you're claiming a PR. Are you claiming a PR?

I assure you my vote will end up on Pere (or you) if you are. I'm all ears.

In post 4590, Suzune wrote:I also support a Raibi lynch, I think it is a good move.

What is the votecount?

p-edit, yes I would also be interested if what you are claiming Titus, because a wise claim might help you case.

Me reminding everyone of what I have already claimed (at least I think I have), does nothing to further the point I am making about PV outing the PR first.

If I am the PR, then I'm only helping PV develop what claims are possible by reading my ISO.

If I'm not the PR, then PV has an even smaller amount of people to look through and find the claim.

So *shrug* if you seasoned players missed it, then there's hope scum has as well. If I had a claim that 100% scumfirmed the two of them, you'd bet your ass I would have explicitly fullclaimed by now.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:34 am

@Sinsun,

Suppose I'm town, what are your reads? The whole thing where EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts has to be a condemnation of me being scum, especially when it's not true, is old. One of my major gripes with you is that you're doing no scumhunting. Perhaps maybe you should take that as a clue to start scumhunting.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:35 am

Oh and if you think a direct question from my townreads regarding me to claim didn't work, what makes you think my scumread asking that is going to improve the situation?

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:54 pm

@Suzune, PV is higher on their lists due to the assumption he was copped. That's independently true or false of alignment. It's much more likely, given Narninan's posting that Thor was copped.

Second, if PV is telling the truth, he has said Priest was a town role. So you'd have to go with Priest Godfather and six scum existing. Correct me I I am wrong on PV vouching for Sinsun's role.

Titus · Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:55 pm

*PV is higher, I meant LG

Titus · Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:51 am

In post 4621, Sinsun1 wrote:
In post 4618, PeregrineV wrote:My three suspects are Riabi, Titus, and Nero.

Titus won't stop scumming it up, Nero is almost as bad, and Riabi is MIA. I'd rather wait for a replacement and go from there.

Place your vote on Riabi if you think he's one of them then. We have 2 mislynches and a very small suspect pool, so we're going to get one of them.

This is a scum perspective.

One it says "we have two mislynched", what townie thinks like this?

To top it off, she says we're going to get one.

Titus · Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:16 am

I do. It's the pronoun usage and that her conclusion is inconsistent with what she put forth.

She's stating we are going to mislynch. Townies don't sound happy about mislynching.

She's arguing we're going to mislynched here all the while voting it and making no plausible alternative or scumhunting.

Titus · Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:09 am

@Thor, You are greatly abusing English grammar to reach that interpretation.

Titus · Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:50 pm

VOTE: PV

I thought my vote was there. *shrug*

Titus · Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:11 am

@Sinsun, you're relatively decent at the rush the lynch play.

Titus · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:22 pm

We have three days.

Should I just not bother the mod with finding a replacement who will likely be lynched and hammer?

Titus · Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:24 am

Possible but it's also clear to me we aren't lynching my main scumreads. Supposing I'm wrong, he'd be my scumread along with Nero.

Titus · Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:07 pm

No Gladiator isn't.

VOTE: Riabli

Titus · Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:06 am

Thor, I have already claimed. I can see why scum shot Suzune. Plus she suspected PV which is an excellent kill if they are scum. Removing you would be moronic.

For Sinsun to be scum, Pere also needs to be (barring GF priest which we all say is unlikely). Pere being scum means the number of scum isn't necessarily what he says it is.

If we presume that Pere is town and the mod made a role that could break the game on its own, then scum is in LG/Nero/Dave. Thor was the cop check.

Dave hasn't really been posting. His thoughts would be useful.

Titus · Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:42 pm

@Thor, I have claimed VT.

Titus · Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:43 pm

You could try reading instead of asking me fifty times.

Titus · Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:52 pm

And you know that how?

Titus · Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:10 am

@Thor, I do think Pere is scum. This isn't about attacking my defenders. It's about following the evidence. Suzune was starting to actually look at that and she died.

I think Pere and Suinsun are the last scum. But if we are supposing a mod broken game, it's Nero.

Frankly if I was on the scumteam and PereV is telling the truth, I would've pissed and resign already. There's zero way of them winning and its going through motions.

Titus · Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:52 am

@Thor, Assume PV and Sinsun are scum. They need two mislynch. Mislynching Nero and Titus wins them the game because they were "conftown".

Let's see what Dave and Nero claim to see if there is a missing PR. Ideally PerV should be claiming what said PR is first because there's no concern about me scumfaking.

@Sinsun, weaker mafia =more roles.

Titus · Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:23 am

Too early to pull quickhammer. Under your theory, town is wagoning both me and PerV and scum are sitting back in lylo when they could hammer either one.

Titus · Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:12 pm

In post 4740, Klingoncelt wrote:Thor, as Scum, I'll do anything, and I mean
anything
to mindfuck Town. Good times.

You've read too many of my scum games.

Titus · Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:57 am

In post 4744, Thor665 wrote:Titus has apparently given up on trying to look town as she is singing the same song as yesterday and ignoring two flips which apparently do not affect her case at all.

Maybe Nero will impress me with his next post by claiming and then scum hunting.

I didn't realize looking town meant agreeing with you. :/ If I take your premise that PV is town, then Nero has to be scum at this point. There's no hunting from my PoV or Nero's.

I just don't.

Titus · Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:32 am

I am not strawmanning. You are just by stating there's logical holes. The number of scum is solely dependent on PereV's word. We throw that out and PerV being scum is easy and makes sense.

Titus · Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:28 am

In post 4762, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 4761, Titus wrote:I am not strawmanning. You are just by stating there's logical holes. The number of scum is solely dependent on PereV's word. We throw that out and PerV being scum is easy and makes sense.

Offer alternatives to 16/5 in a 21 player game.

15/6

Titus · Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:30 am

In post 4764, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4761, Titus wrote:I am not strawmanning. You are just by stating there's logical holes. The number of scum is solely dependent on PereV's word. We throw that out and PerV being scum is easy and makes sense.

Well, that then brings you back to "explain what the hell he was doing choosing to bus three scum buddies for no reason" to which your only answer has been "Sinsun is also scum, cop clears are wrong, and the 'plan' was to garner two mislynches after pushing three scum deaths instead of doing a plan that involved one mislynch...with multiple chances at it."

So you would think you would grok why my credulity is strained and you would THINK you would bother trying to explain the "plan" a bit better when I keep asking you about it.

Why aren't you?

I am clearly TRYING to listen and understand...do you grok how town play the game?

If you were, you would have realized Suzune got it and that's why she died. Your total obliviousness is why you are living.

Bussing a few buddies is how PerV proves himself. *shrug*

If Nero flips town, we lose anyway because you aren't willing to think.

Titus · Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:01 pm

So why didn't you get the Oracle?

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:46 am

@Thor, Unhappy coincidence. He attempts to mislynch me but is forced to vote Hermit after his slip. He still looks town BC he knows the scumteam.

@Sinsun, why hasn't Nero resigned then?

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:38 am

It wasn't deliberate. He won either way. Town was mislynched or he gets confirmed. He didn't want to vote Hermit despite Hermit claiming roleblocker.

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:43 am

No. He avoided talking about Hermit at all and avoided the thread.

If we suppose fictions, we can easily reach PV as town and thus Nero scum.

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:20 am

In post 3882, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:I am fine with lynching Titus or Klingon.

Titus, if you are town, who should we lynch tomorrow?

In post 3971, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:
id you block me night1?

No. I don't even know who they were used on, Monkeyman didn't say it on my Role PM. Both were used already, I'll shoot him a PM.

In post 3978, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 3976, Titus wrote:
In post 3974, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Okay, knock this shit off. Everybody else claim.

No. We are not outing the doctor tonight, unless it's me. You won't know that until you hammer scum.

I'm totally confused by this sentence.

In post 4011, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 4010, Psyche wrote:kay pv
back to constantine
thoughts?

Seriously?

If he is not the roleblocker, he is claiming it to take the lynch away from Titus.

There would be absolutely no reason to do that if Titus were town. He would just let nature take his course, and the mislynch would go through.

No. PerV resisted well after he knew Hermit was scum.

PerV knows I am his biggest detractor. Try again.

And the quote by Hermit basically shoots down your PerV wouldn't bus thing as Hermit bussed Klingon.

Can we actually have a discussion, or are you hellbent on a neighborizer + oracle PoS claim

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:52 am

Same difference. A bus is a bus. Pere puts himself in a no lose situation if scum there unless he's lynched.

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:26 am

You shouldn't need to ask me that question. I'm obviously town.

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:26 am

Good luck.

50 v 50.

Pere or Nero.

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:51 pm

I am VT. Like I said.

Titus · Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:02 pm

We already lynched a mob doc BTW.

Titus · Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:30 am

In post 4819, Psyche wrote:gosh titus i can't believe you are so paranoid

In post 4820, Nero Cain wrote:town was stacked man

These two together.

Titus · Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:22 pm

Suinsin, it's not giving into paranoia to suppose a fair game. Sorry. No regrets.

Titus · Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:24 pm

Your "best read" was that I was scum. :/