Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[Ciara24]

VOTE: Ciara24

That wasn't a random vote. I'm voting Ciara because I'm aware of my ability to read her well and I'm letting her know that I'm watching her and forming a read there is my highest priority at the moment.

I'm kinda fascinated by this because you discussing your ability to read me well seems almost like a threat. We've only played two games together - both times I was town. I'm going to pretend you feel threatened by me being such a great player since forming a read on me is, after all, your highest priority.

VOTE: thor

He's been scum in every game I've finished with him.

Would you like me to waste everyone's time pointing out the utter lack of logic there, or would you prefer we skip that and move back to the point where we actually discuss what you think is scummy in this game?
Even if you think I am scummy you ought to be able to do better than that - I'm being a touch obstructionist and cheeky with my answers - at least go with that so your case isn't a waste of time.

How is voting someone based on past gaming experience any worse than wagoning on someone who hadn't posted yet? Please, let us discuss what you found scummy about my play in the game so far.

Also, why are you being obstructionist with your answers?

[Ciara24]

The overall level of snark in this game is interesting

[Ciara24]

@zakk, what counts as not random?

If a vote is not sufficiently explained in the same post or a preceding post, or in certain cases, a subsequent post, it is considered random.

Nachomamma8 was given lenience because this standard was not fully explained, and because he explained his vote in a subsequent post.

I will add this to the ruleset directly to alleviate this issue in the future.

**The ruleset has been amended.**

But I like voting without reason. It's a great way to reaction test...

This game is gonna suck

Plenty of ways to reaction test without RVS.
Needing to provide a legitimate reason may actually get better reactions. Never played without RVS myself but a new challenge is always good.

I'd like to hear from the remaining players before I place a vote.

[Ciara24]

How is voting someone based on past gaming experience any worse than wagoning on someone who hadn't posted yet?

One serves a functional scumhunting purpose while the other is reaction testing while presenting bad logic so that the only reaction from either alignment would be 'your logic is very bad'.
Why do you consider them identical?

I consider them identical in this scenario because they are both based on out of game factors. You are wagoning Nacho's vote on me, which is based on his ability to read me in previous games, and nothing to do with this particular game.
Voting for someone because they were scum in a previous game is, again, nothing to do with this particular game, therefore they serve the same purpose here.

Both are reaction tests - by wagoning, you're testing who reacts to the wagon, who joins you and who has good reasoning for joining the wagon - it;s an open test.
The other is reaction testing a specific person to see if they rise to the bait - 'scum in other games means you must be scum here'.

Please, let us discuss what you found scummy about my play in the game so far.

Never said I found anything you did in the game at the point of my vote scummy - it would be illogical if I had and I suspect you're aware of that and are presenting silly challenges that mean nothing.
Why?

In 23, you stated you would like to 'move back to the point where we actually discuss what you think is scummy in this game?'
I was simply attempting to open up the question to you. Would you like to actually discuss what you think is scummy in the game, or was that just directed at Bellaphant?

Also, why are you being obstructionist with your answers?

Please quote me doing so and explain the obstructionism and we'll discuss it.
I haven't been - I just [ongoing-ed] and decided not to dwell on it when Bella revealed further lack of logic - but now that you agree with it I'd love to hear why. Feel free to awe me - currently I like the idea of lynching you even more now.

Again, in 23, you stated that you were being a touch obstructionist with your answers. I simply asked why.
All I saw in your posts was snark - I wouldn't have called it being obstructionist, but I was interested in why you thought that your own play was going that way. Who are you trying to obstruct with your answers?

[Ciara24]

catching up. Sorry for the inactivity, I started college again this week and forgot what it's like to actually have to do things every day... 6am starts are not my friend

[Ciara24]

I consider them identical in this scenario because they are both based on out of game factors.

You are wagoning Nacho's vote on me

, which is based on his ability to read me in previous games, and nothing to do with this particular game.
Voting for someone because they were scum in a previous game is, again, nothing to do with this particular game, therefore they serve the same purpose here.

What?

Why in the universe would you think that i thought Nacho had a read on you worthy of being sheeped at this point in time?

I guess if you in theory thought that...for some reason...then that would be equally (well, in my opinion - vastly moreso) worse than Bella's vote.
but that is not my stated reasoning at all -

I said I was wagoning you

. Bella could have voted you in Nacho's place and my action would have been the same.

I don't really get the difference here? You are wagoning me but not Nacho's vote on me? Ok...
I presumed you were sheeping Nacho's read on me, I guess, because that was the only explanation that made sense to me.

Again, in 23, you stated that you were being a touch obstructionist with your answers. I simply asked why.
All I saw in your posts was snark - I wouldn't have called it being obstructionist, but I was interested in why you thought that your own play was going that way. Who are you trying to obstruct with your answers?

What part of my previous answer confuses you when I said 'I am not'?
Though I am mildly horrified that you would take my own word for how I'm playing once and not the second time - why is that?

Where did I take your word once but not the second time? I don't see that anywhere.

I'm kinda fascinated by this because you discussing your ability to read me well seems almost like a threat. We've only played two games together - both times I was town. I'm going to pretend you feel threatened by me being such a great player since forming a read on me is, after all, your highest priority.

I've seen your towngame twice. I think that if there's something off with your play, I'll be the first to pick up on it, and am the only player in the playerlist who actually posts a meta-threat to you. Forcing a hypothetical you!scum to react to me specifically makes your job harder and also, in some strange inexplicable way, makes me focus in heavier on you so that I can catch you early if you are scum.

Mmkay. Go crazy. I've seen your scum game once and your town game once, and read a couple of past games. I certainly wouldn't assume I'd be able to pick out if you're scum or not from early game. I'd like to think that my town game would be still improving anyway.

I'd like to hear from the remaining players before I place a vote.

Why? Who would you vote here if you didn't arbitrarily decide to wait for everyone to post?

My lack of early voting should hardly surprise you. I don't see any need to rush a vote. I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me. I'm liking Karmic for town. Liking Thor for town too. Bit unsure about you, undecided on Garmr and the rest.

The other is reaction testing a specific person to see if they rise to the bait - 'scum in other games means you must be scum here'.

This is assigning purpose to a vote that didn't have any.

All of our votes at this stage were supposed to have purpose, Nacho

[Ciara24]

I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me.

You should read this game and iso Woody. It should give you a pretty clear view on how Woody plays as town. I was scum in that game, so I might be a bit biased commenting on it, but I thought Woody was obvtown in that one.

Cheers, I'll give that a read later!

[Ciara24]

I presumed you were sheeping Nacho's read on me, I guess, because that was the only explanation that made sense to me.

That might make sense if he had offered a read on you.
He didn't.
He literally stated that he voted you to let you know he was watching you - what do you think I was "sheeping" there exactly? An agreement that he was watching you? Or letting you know I was watching you?
None of that makes any sense - why are you acting like it does?

I dislike when things don't make sense to me. I gotta try and work some sense into them. Seems clear that I misinterpreted your original post.

Where did I take your word once but not the second time? I don't see that anywhere.

You took my word that I was being obstructionist - but did not take my word for it the second time when I said I wasn't, and instead pressed the empty attack on me.
Why?[/quote]

ahhh I see what you mean. I appear to have skipped the second part of your answer the first time

[Ciara24]

Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

Wonky. Uh, ok. I was made aware of something, but I didn't have any follow up questions, and I didn;t feel like my interactions with you were helping me scumhunt. Therefore, I moved on.

My lack of early voting should hardly surprise you. I don't see any need to rush a vote. I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me. I'm liking Karmic for town.

Why not vote to pressure somebody?

Also please explain how karmic is a town read when I just proved karmic lied about me than tried to play dumb

Getting town vibes from karmic. Gut feels. I also tend not to bother with voting for pressure unless I'm really sure someone is scum, or to try ad encourage activity. When I've got a scum read that I'm sure about, I'll place my vote.

Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.

I like the idea of day 1 Ciara lynch. IRL, I can respect putting college before mafia, and if that's what's going on, that's what's going on. But in the context of mafia, Ciara has felt lurky, and I agree that the scumhunting from her has been weak.

I'll sheep your vote. Let the pressure begin!

Pressure is for tires, come up with a legit case on me if you're going to vote me. Explain how I've been lurking? I've been online every day and the game only started a few days ago. Already explained that I'm busy - I can't be as active as I'd like to be but that's not alignment indicative

[Ciara24]

@Ciara24, I dislike your entire back-and-forth discussion with Thor665 and the feel of the rest of your posts. It would be mostly a gut read, but one thing stood out to me: the part where you state his vote is a reaction test on you and proceed to try to make little of it (in my eyes) or devalue it.

I can't seem to find any pro-town value in this -

Ciara, could you explain to me why you found it important to point out that Thor665's vote on you was a reaction test?

In post 52 , Thor pointed out a reaction test he did and a scumhunting thing he did. He asked why I found them identical. I asnwered him by explaining I considered them both to be reaction tests. I don't really see why you are confused, unless you consider me answering his question to be anti-town.

Oh, also, town lean on Gummy.
Mostly for the buddying

Good legit reason, solid work, go team.

[Ciara24]

Supreme prod dodge, apologies, it's been a really busy weekend.

I'll check back in properly later wen I get time to read through

[Ciara24]

I would rather not be replaced but I understand that I haven't been active, and I will leave that decision up to the mod. Will be busy this weekend but life should hopefully settle down by Monday.