Mini 1717 Alfred Hitchcock UPick [GAME OVER]

[Davsto]

VOTE: Cataphant
I hate cats.

[Davsto]

RED ALERT
RED ALERT
RED ALERT

UNVOTE: Thor665
VOTE: Davsto

y

;-;

[Davsto]

VOTE: davsto

Cat hater

Now now, just paws and think about what you're doing.

[Davsto]

Curious as to the number of votes on me being 4.

[Davsto]

Curious as to the number of votes on me being 4.

I would be more curious if the number of votes on you was 3 or 5 - 4 people and 4 votes seems pretty normal.
Why is it curious? I'm curious

I'd expect a more varied spread of votes in RVS.

[Davsto]

Especially interesting is that two of said votes are re-votes, and one of them is sheeping. Is sheeping an RVS vote a thing?

[Davsto]

Meh. Maybe Sakura's I don't like that much, but I've never been one to read RVS well.

[Davsto]

Don't feel entirely like removing my RVS vote yet. Don't find Cata scummy, but there's only one post.

*shrug*

[Davsto]

Maybe Sakura's I don't like that much, but I've never been one to read RVS well.

What's with this wishy-washy stance?

~Sakura

I'd rather be honest and admit I don't really get RVS than act all cocky with a slight read knowing it's probably wrong.

[Davsto]

Maybe Sakura's I don't like that much, but I've never been one to read RVS well.

What's with this wishy-washy stance?

~Sakura

I'd rather be honest and admit I don't really get RVS than act all cocky with a slight read knowing it's probably wrong.

If you think it's probably wrong, why not pursue it further and find out instead of sitting there? I don't get it

~Sakura

Because then everyone seems to think I have a solid read of some sort, idk.

So why did you sheep Thor whilst changing your vote?

[Davsto]

You have a townread on someone who has made only 7 posts? Elaborate.

[Davsto]

You have a townread on someone who has made only 7 posts? Elaborate.

Don't you have a scumlean on someone who also has 7 posts (and had less when you stated scum lean)?
Also, I've stated a town lean on a player with one post.

Not a scum lean, they've just done one thing I'm not a fan of.
Also, you explained that, didn't you? At the end of 37

[Davsto]

Oh, I assumed it was just some really clever townread because I didn't really understand it.

Explain your townread then, Thor, thanks.

[Davsto]

Oh, apparently it was some really clever townread I don't understand.

[Davsto]

I'm honestly just waiting to get with MS because he has more experience with her and notscience.

Although i'd like to think you're town for this, i don't see why scum you wouldn't want to just aggro on me, and instead decided to consult with your other head who has more experience with the more recent me.

~Sakura

This post seems off. It starts off with an "although", implying that there is going to be a negative counter to the good point, but there isn't one.

It comes across that Sakura originally wanted to make a negative point but then realised she couldn't, so she just made it a positive point and forgot to edit out the remnants.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Hecatia

Most of her posts at first are filler that makes them seem like they're trying to do something, like 78.

Like there are a lot of posts but nothing good until 2/3 into the iso.

Sheeps votes on Vedith.

Not liking this.

Hopping on an easier bandwagon with little reasoning.

[Davsto]

Also apparently Davsto has dissapeared and has posts elsewhere, how interesting

At the current time, I have nothing to add to the situation, hence my lack of posting.

Hello.

Any questions? I'm sure you have some.

[Davsto]

far whats wrong with overjustification thing about pistachio? :\

Ohhhh sorry I misunderstood your post.

Dav: there is more then just people attacking you to discuss.
Who are your scum reads. What do you think of the wagons?

Not a fan of the Vedith wagon, because sometimes people semi-lurk as both alignments. People seem to take it as a scumtell and sure, they can, but not alone. The wagon is based purely on this, and nothing actually scummy Ved's done, so I'm wary of it.

As for singular scumreads, I think you've all probably figured out mine on Hecatia asfdgfnzfdndsknv. I'm probably gonna vote them.

VOTE: Hecatia

Make that a full vote.

[Davsto]

While I'm thinking I somewhat wonder if we should claim characters. I have a theory and I wonder if I'm out guessing the mod or not.

I'm against this idea.

It doesn't help clear anyone to town because rolenames are insignificant to alignments, but it gives scum a decent guess at what people's roles are. I fail to see this benefiting town.

[Davsto]

@Davesto, my other head unvoted you but I'm not sure - where are you at right now with the game?

confused

I think I've already said about my Hecatia nnaosnfsdfn scumread, and other than that I ain't seeing that much.

[Davsto]

Meh. Deccently gut.

Like, they complain about me not being here, I am here and show that I am available to ask questions...
...and I am ignored and considered scummy for being here. What, should I have just stayed away?

In general, I feel their posts are less reading me as scum and more painting me as scum.

[Davsto]

@ Davsto, What specifically did you find scummy about Pistachion's jump onto Hecatia in Post 160? You earlier had a scumread on Hecatia in Post 84 and you later vote Hecatia in Post 195 so you definitely thought Hecatia was scum at this point. Why the dislike of Pistachion's vote? And why hasn't this affected your Hecatia read at all?

I probably felt it could have been bussing at the time. Something I wanted to keep note of after Hecatia flips, and the best way to do so is to quote it.

[Davsto]

prodge.

I haven't really found that much to say about this game.

Vedith wagon looks to be the run-of-the-mill counterwagon to scum, and I haven't found him scummy so far that much, gonna be honest.

Bulge needs to post more.

Hecatia is still p. scummy. May do an ISO within 24 hours if I have the time. I don't think I have anything other than a quick maths homework to do tomorrow night.

[Davsto]

Fair enough. Davsto, 15 pages and nothing to say?

Pretty sure it's been fewer pages since that since my last post. Nice exaggeration.

[Davsto]

You said "I haven't really found much to say about this game."

As in, "haven't found much to say in the last couple of pages henceforth I haven't said much". Sorry if it came across wrong.

[Davsto]

What do you think about Vedith and Concrete Angels?

Quoting this so that I remember to come around to it when I give the game a proper read through. Kinda been neglecting this one a tad sorry.

[Davsto]

Okay so I read through the pages I missed and still couldn't find anything that I hooked onto (maybe it's because I just did a giant piece of maths homework but idk) so I'm just gonna answer this question directed at me and move on.

What do you think about Vedith and Concrete Angels?

Vedith - Town. Liking posts. The fact that he appears to be arguing against himself being "lynchbait" due to him seeming to find it borderline offensive while he could easily just go with that view of him gives him townie points in particular.

Concrete - Meh. They made good points fairly frequently until they voted Hecatia in 241 at which point they fell into tunneling and slightly stupid posting for a little while before slipping back into better posting. Maybe it's because it's a hydra but it seemed a bit weird as I skimmed. However, the good points they've made generally are pretty good so I'm gonna go for the townier side of nullreading.

[Davsto]

I've been neglecting this game. I have some free time in a couple of hours. I'm gonna read it a bit closer and see if I can pick up on anything. Sorry, guys.

[Davsto]

Meh.

Read through. Kinda finding it hard to get reads at the moment, sorry. Still liking the Hecatia vote but barely.

I mean, I'm usually pretty mediocre at this but I've usually caught

something

half-decent at this point. Considering a full from-start read through tomorrow because it's Saturday then~

[Davsto]

this head is mostly gonezo until monday!

Erm, which head?

[Davsto]

Wingback, stop lurking and start helping.

(Did I do gud?)

[Davsto]

VOTE: davvyboy

Explain the retraction of your previous vote (whoever it was) and why it moved onto me?

[Davsto]

Because I have done some considerable soul searching and looked at your ISO and decided that you look like you need some more votes!

That's... not a reason.

Explain

your vote on me. Cite your sources, use evidence to back up your points, so I can see if you're misled town or just scum trying to build a case on a townie.

[Davsto]

Because I have done some considerable soul searching and looked at your ISO and decided that you look like you need some more votes!

That's... not a reason.

Explain

your vote on me. Cite your sources, use evidence to back up your points, so I can see if you're misled town or just scum trying to build a case on a townie.

Hecatia Lapislazuli - 4 (pistachi0n, massive,

Davsto

, Concrete Angels)

I think you already chose before we voted you.

~Sakura

Strange as it may seem, I can actually change my mind. However, the fact that you're dodging the question is making you worse and worse in my eyes.

Also, I don't go for meta. People play differently in different games due to different circumstances, and meta can be manipulated.

[Davsto]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63181 if you're interested. Big game.

[Davsto]

I have to go to school, now. Hecatia, I expect the question of the reasoning for me to be answered by the time I get back.

[Davsto]

Okay, why the hell hasn't Hecatia given any reasoning for voting on me?

Town!Hecatia has

no reason

not to give reasons. Town!Hecatia apparently believes I'm scum, and looking through to find reasons to give will either:
a) Convince other people to vote with her if they are good
b) If they realise the reads are bad, realise they are wrong and go after

real

scum.

This "I'm not giving any reads" attitude sounds like Scum knowing that they can't back up the points to their attempt at a counterwagon and doesn't want to get called out for it.

[Davsto]

My biggest issue with Davvyboy is he has a whopping 2 committed reads. The rest of his ISO is devoted to waffling, talking about us, or "man I just can't get my head in this game darn."

oh yay, actual reasons, fun.

So being careful with reads is suspicious? Having 2 committed reads is a decent amount for me, this early on. As a general rule, I don't tend to go "I'm certain X is scum" unless I'm goddamn certain X is scum.

And the latter is really not alignment indicative so ya know.

[Davsto]

Smooth.

[Davsto]

Wait a sec, where's the Ank wagon come from? I'm genuinely confused.

[Davsto]

Yeh, the Ank wagon is pretty fishy.

[Davsto]

Honestly if we're arguing about the worst vote on Ank I'm like 99% sure it's Hecatia's.

Unvote
Vote: Ankamius

Hey Amianki, remember what you said about your scum/town meta in your reactions to being wagoned? ^_^
I'm putting that to the test.

~Sakura

Like seriously.

It feels like she's justifying the vote as a reaction test ahead of time so it doesn't like she's come up with it as an excuse when called out for it, but by doing it with the vote completely and entirely removes the purpose of a reaction test. This seems super weird to me.

[Davsto]

But why say "hey I'm doing a reaction test on you" if you want a result? It's like doing a fake hammer then going "that wasn't actually a hammer by the way" or faking a vigshot and going "it's not real" before getting the result. If she actually wanted to see you under pressure she'd treat it as a real reasoned vote, otherwise there isn't actually any pressure on you since you know it's not aa serious vote.

Saying "I'm voting you to test your reaction" totally removes any pressure that vote actually had, and frankly with 4 votes on you already you were hardly unpressured.

The timing of that vote also makes it look way more like it's just an excuse to throw coal onto the counterwagon train, rather than a genuinely reasoned vote.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Especially the lies

Where are you??

You are aware that ELY is part of the Concrete Angels hydra?

[Davsto]

*ETL, not ELY.

[Davsto]

Okay so Wingback is basically certainly town by the look of it.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Davesto

Um, okay..?

Is there a reason for this or are you thinking it's a good idea for you to sheep Hecatia of all players?

[Davsto]

Ankamius - Town. Don't see much scummy on him and the wagon on him seems incredibly forced.
Cataphant - Nullscum. Few posts, a lot of filler even within those few.
Concrete Angels - Town.
farside22 - Nulltown.
Hecatia - Scum, hence the vote.
Lying Cat - Townlean.
massive - Nullscum.
pistachi0n - Scumlean. All of their posts are short, useless, and their naked vote on me just was ew.
Bulge - Null, can't say shit about a 3-poster.
Thor - Gonna lean town.
Vedith - Null..?
Wingback - Town.

[Davsto]

Concrete Angels - Town.
farside22 - Nulltown.
Lying Cat - Townlean.
massive - Nullscum.
Thor - Gonna lean town.
Vedith - Null..?

You had Vedith as town and Concrete as "meh" in Post 380. What changed your mind since on both?

Why are farside22 and Thor leantown? What do you make of my scumreads on them?

What's scummy about massive? Why is Lying Cat a townlean?

1) Approximately 200 posts.
2) farside22, while struggling to post extensively due to IRL issues, made some very good points in what she said. Thor's interrogation of me early on also ended with him being pretty damn townie.
3) massive was nullscum for a reason - I think they're a tiny bit scummy due to just the vague atmosphere I'm reading from them, but nothing substantial. Lying Cat is a townlean because their posts are detailed and definitely seem to come from a townie viewpoint, rather than a scum one.

Also it pains me

very much

to see people townreading Davvyboy

Especially after 594

"oh I havent been giving reads and am getting called out as scum over it better just throwout a bunch of random shit"

I'm surprised that, since you seem to be using Flower Viewing Festival as a "meta" tell to read me as scum when it's convenient for you, that you forgot that I was fairly conservative about giving readslists there, too. Also, stop squawking, I don't like it. It's not the way I roll.

[Davsto]

You were way more sharey and carey with your reads there then you were here, so no. I'm on Ank because Sakura disagrees about you but I don't disagree regarding him.

So no, I haven't stopped scumreading you.

But why, pray tell, is this time convenient for me? What do I hope to gain?

SQUAWK

Remember that time when Axle kept telling me to post reasons for that readslist and it took stupidly long because I kept procrastinating? Me too.

Remember how, if memory serves me correctly, I only gave the readslist because I was prompted to? How is that different to this game?

I hate using meta tells to read people, but if you're gonna pick and choose with which ones you're going to use I'm gonna pick that apart like hell.

[Davsto]

1) Approximately 200 posts.
2) farside22, while struggling to post extensively due to IRL issues, made some very good points in what she said.

1) I realize that. My question was what in those 200 posts made you change your mind?
2) What specific points of Farside's did you think were town-motivated?

1) Sorry, my sarcasm got a tad ahead of me there. I'm not really sure, it's more a gutread than anything else. I know, go ahead and groan.
2) The interactions with me - she defended me when I would very much have been an easy target for scum to jump on (see: Hecatia) or at least ignore, and in 191 particularly she implored me to actually expand on other things. I find this unlikely to be scum-motivated, in my head.

[Davsto]

I'm referring to you talking about your reads on other players, even if it's just passerby comments about having way too many scumreads.

Here, up until that list you only gave 2 real committed reads. THAT is the issue I have with it, because the other game you had no issue giving passerby stances. But no, you can pick that apart all you want because that's not what I am saying.

SQUAWK

The point I'm trying to make is that meta reads are basically bollocks. The situation in Flower Viewing is different to this one in so many ways and for so many reasons. In my opinion, using meta is pretty rubbish and unreliable anyway, but when you're basing it on one game it's just silly.

I don't use meta reads, but I'm always more than happy to pick apart ones on me. The thing about meta reads is that it's incredibly easy to say "his play in this is different to his play in [game] where he was town," as if you're expecting me to play exactly the goddamn same in every game, ignoring other town games where I may have played differently, and totally ignoring the fact that the circumstances in this game are different.

[Davsto]

I disagree with #2 but I can see town thinking that way. I'll rephrase #1:

You had Vedith as town for decent reasoning (the lynchbait discussion). What about his posts put him back at null?

I haven't seen anything super townie from him still. While this is acceptable earlygame, as the game progresses I expect people to have at least become more townlike, a bit. It's more gut than anything though.

[Davsto]

Let's play this game

If we were scum looking for easy targets to jump on, why not jump on bulge, farside, or vedith?

Why you?

SQUAWK

*looks at last votecount*

*looks at camera*

[Davsto]

The interactions with me - she defended me when I would very much have been an easy target for scum to jump on (see: Hecatia) or at least ignore, and in 191 particularly she implored me to actually expand on other things. I find this unlikely to be scum-motivated, in my head.

You don't think farside would run a WK gambit as scum?

It read as genuine rather than forced townreading, to me. Maybe I'm just soft. I'll have to see what the replacement does to be more sure.

[Davsto]

Hi davsto.

Low Concrete Angels

It read as genuine rather than forced townreading, to me. Maybe I'm just soft. I'll have to see what the replacement does to be more sure.

Why did it read as genuine to you?

Because she gives reasons for the townreads with potential reasons for the things you were scumreading me for, basically summing up how I was thinking despite me not clearly stating it.

[Davsto]

When reading through I'm basically ignoring Thor and LC's back and forth; this suggests to me that there's a good chance that it's TvT.

[Davsto]

Reason?

[Davsto]

I still have the Hecatia read because, surprise surprise, I still think she's scummy. The fact that it's apparently scummy to have a read and not change it makes no sense to me. What do you expect me to do, get reads early on and then assume they are wrong because ????

Also, with the Mystery Reason, hopping onto an easier bandwagon with little reasoning could easily be either scum sneaking on to a town wagon or scum getting a little bus in, just in case.

[Davsto]

Davsto--Seems to be avoiding taking a stance on the game at all.

Ankamius - Town. Don't see much scummy on him and the wagon on him seems incredibly forced.
Cataphant - Nullscum. Few posts, a lot of filler even within those few.
Concrete Angels - Town.
farside22 - Nulltown.
Hecatia - Scum, hence the vote.
Lying Cat - Townlean.
massive - Nullscum.
pistachi0n - Scumlean. All of their posts are short, useless, and their naked vote on me just was ew.
Bulge - Null, can't say shit about a 3-poster.
Thor - Gonna lean town.
Vedith - Null..?
Wingback - Town.

yeh, this is silly, I've been stating stances multiple times.

[Davsto]

Davsto

, 1) I don't expect that town will always change their reads because sometimes people have strong reads and confbias themselves into being stubborn and not changing their mind. But that is typically accompanied by a hard push for their target's lynch. You haven't been pushing Hecatia, attacking their posts or making noises for their lynch. The Hecatia wagon is dead. But you are content to simply show up (very infrequently) and re-iterate that you are scumreading them. The fact that they are pushing back on you also makes your read pretty convenient. That looks more like scum who don't want to change the "reads" that they have settled into rather than either a) stubborn town knee-deep in confbias, or b) town that are re-assesing and refining their reads based on new evidence. 2) Your Post 160 clearly implies that you thought Pistachion was hopping on a town wagon. Why would a scum wagon be "easy?"

I'm pretty sure I've been pushing Hecatia a fair amount; look how she says some stuff and I go "that's bad" like that whole meta conversation.
And it doesn't imply that at all - if I meant it like that, would I really have kept voting Hecatia as I was at the time?

Also, where have all of these concerns come from? You were townreading me not so long ago, and all of these concerns come from before then.

[Davsto]

Also, with the Mystery Reason, hopping onto an easier bandwagon with little reasoning could easily be either scum sneaking on to a town wagon or scum getting a little bus in, just in case.

So basically
Either scum pistacho hoping onto Town us
Or scum pistacho busing Scum us.

Both of those suggest that pistacho is scum, yet only half we are scum.
Why didn't you switch your vote?

~Sakura

Because it was a tiny little niggle as opposed to the reams of problems coming from your slot.

[Davsto]

The whole business with their awful, selective meta reads on me? Their convenient vote on Ankamius? Those are two quite key ones.

And saying that "I didn't like that she started the sentence with although" is an inaccurate representation; she starts the post in a way that suggests that she was going to paint whoever it was with a negative light (although positive thing, negative thing makes scum), but couldn't find anything so had to change it to a townread. That's not how town thinks, or at least not how I think as town.

[Davsto]

I may do.

But at that point, I was more concerned about Hecatia than that. I've often seen town do a crappy vote with little to no reasoning, I just noted it.

[Davsto]

Oh joys, I'm guessing you're just gonna parrot Wingback's reasons if I ask you?

inb4 Hecatia jumps onto me to because "Sakura changed her mind"

[Davsto]

I'm kinda tempted to just claim now before the wagon slowly builds on me and then we run out of time and thus can't get a wagon actually on scum.

Thoughts on this idea?

[Davsto]

No, I was just wondering if I would get anything out of you, alignment-wise, by looking at your reads. Knowing that you are sheeping them means that I would be wasting my time by interrogating.

My role isn't that good anyway (and I'm not supertown) so I'm not really scared about being nightkilled.

I am

The Birds, Ascetic Jailkeeper.

I was thinking of claiming the Ascetic part anyway today to avoid town timewasting but since I have a power role along with it I decided I'd rather not advertise that the Mafia can kill me without me being Doctored.

[Davsto]

Yeh, the whole squawking thing confused me at first because it looked like they were crumbing my role.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Cataphant
I hate cats.

[Davsto]

I figured there was more than enough of a chance that they were just a person who squawked randomly, and I didn't feel like revealing my role

that

early on a minor technicality though.

[Davsto]

Eh, that sounds weak, but the roleclaim is pretty dumb if you're scum.

Vote Ank with me?

Well the thing is that, if they were scum, they have no reason to actually crumb a role that isn't theirs because roles are not indicative of alignment (as I know), unless all the scum happened to be named after antagonists and they were worried, but in that case they wouldn't be crumbing The Birds, they'd be crumbing a protagonist.

And I'm still not sold on Ank.

[Davsto]

Because The Birds were the only thing from Hitchcock movies that I knew and could name. I chose the other two literally by going onto Wikipedia and looking at Hitchcock's filmography, and picking two random films and two people who looked neat.

As for the fluff, it's incredibly vague and I'm not really sure how the quotes relate to the actual abilities. I'm gonna skirt around it here and get clarification from Antihero to see how specific I can get with paraphrasing when it comes to my Role PM without being modkilled or the like.

@Antihero - how specific can I get with paraphrasing when it comes to my Role PM without being modkilled or the like?

[Davsto]

Alright, I'll PM Antihero the wording I would use, and get back to you when I can on that one.

[Davsto]

Approved.

Each attribute/ability has a quote related to it, presumably from the Hitchcock film The Birds. The quote for the Jailkeeper part relates to there being many different types of birds, and the Ascetic quote relates to there being a fuckton of birds in terms of numbers.

If I had to guess how the abilities function in regards to these, I'd assume that the Jailkeeping is swarming a player so they cannot move or be killed, and that the Ascetic part is that there are so many birds in the world that you cannot target them. However, nothing to this kind of thing is explicitly stated in the PM; this is just me guessing how the abilities relate to the role.

[Davsto]

And here i thought the Sqwaks thing was a reference to the notscience/marquis hydra called Doduo which they also used to be nicknamed scumbirds and used to post sqawks a lot. Well maybe notscience will believe me now that this kind of bad can't be scum in a game where scum has daychat =/

~Sakura

Scum has daychat?

[Davsto]

...Fair enough, I missed that.

*facepalm*

[Davsto]

Why is your vote still on Dav? Do you think that he is lying then?

I'll second this - it's a good question.

Can I third it?

Because if so, I will.

[Davsto]

Probably because before that I didn't feel the need to vote before. The post I voted in would have been just after I got home from school so my mindset was probably different.

[Davsto]

I'm tempted to use puppies to help get Hecatia lynched for irony reasons regarding notscience...

[Davsto]

Don't worry, I'm not gonna interfere with your action tonight. I'm hoping to get you lynched before then.

I mean, if you live that long then I probably will block you but ya know.

[Davsto]

Nacho go look back at my first molliepost

First letter of each sentence going backwards

I misspelled it but im bad at life and its close enough

Which post is this?

Anyway, I still don't buy it so I'm gonna be blocking you tonight, but lynching you is not the right choice.

UNVOTE:

[Davsto]

I'm not stupid, I have good reasons for targeting you with Jail. Trust me. I know you have plenty of reason not to, but trust me.

I'm gonna vote pistach.

VOTE: Pistachi0n

[Davsto]

Anyway, I still don't buy it so I'm gonna be blocking you tonight, but lynching you is not the right choice.

This is unacceptable.

If she's town, she's being killed tonight because investigative roles are good for town and hella difficult to get lynched. In all honesty, I'm protecting her; getting a result won't help anyone if she's dead, keeping her alive is thus a better result.

[Davsto]

Anyway, I still don't buy it so I'm gonna be blocking you tonight, but lynching you is not the right choice.

This is unacceptable.

If she's town, she's being killed tonight because investigative roles are good for town and hella difficult to get lynched. In all honesty, I'm protecting her; getting a result won't help anyone if she's dead, keeping her alive is thus a better result.

if you jail them, they wont get any result.

And if I don't, they'll also get no result because they'll be dead.

[Davsto]

Okay so I

was

gonna say that I was gonna Jail her so scum didn't kill her but

actually

Jail someone else so she got a damn result, but because of you people being goddamn inquisitive buffoons I'm not gonna do that and Hecatia's probably gonna die tonight. You happy now?

[Davsto]

Well

sorry

for trying to do a gambit that would let an investigative get something done.

Also, I'm not buying Ank!scum. I'm still fairly seeing it as pistach. Sue me.

[Davsto]

I thought it was a good idea at the time. I still think it was alright, but whatever. Let's move on from this entirely irrelevant argument.

[Davsto]

Dave:

Scum's next two night actions will be spent shooting Hecatia and then shooting you. While there is merit to perhaps targeting Hecatia tonight, that merit disappears completely when you claim that outright, and jail keeping scum means that we get a scumlynch and an innocent and two power roles still, which would put us significantly ahead despite the outcome of today. If we can kill both ninjas before you two are dead, the watcher will be able to protect a PR for what is going to almost certainly be a win. I would suggest flipping a coin between protecting Hecatia and jailing a scumread; saying that there's a chance you will protect Hecatia lowers scum incentive to shoot her but also means scum may take the risk and shoot her.

I'm not actually protecting Hecatia, sorry.

[Davsto]

Let me guess: you're not protecting Hecatia because other people told you it was dumb without giving reasons?

No, I'm not protecting Hecatia because enough people were arguing it with genuine points (when I actually wasn't going to do it because gambit) despite me saying "trust me and move on" so I knew they wouldn't let it go so I just admitted that I was planning the gambit. Focusing on that is bad for the gamestate when we only have a few days left on the deadline.

[Davsto]

We're not lynching Sakura today. Surely we want her to get at least one investigation off in case she is telling the truth?

[Davsto]

>Doesn't suspect me
>Vote is still on me
yeah right

~Sakura

Just because I haven't immediately voted you doesn't mean that I am still suspecting you.

I have no idea what this sentence means.

[Davsto]

>Doesn't suspect me
>Vote is still on me
yeah right

~Sakura

Just because I haven't immediately voted you doesn't mean that I am still suspecting you.

I have no idea what this sentence means.

unvoted*

Okay so you have your vote on someone you don't suspect.

...

...

...

[Davsto]

We have four days left. We really need to start converging on common ground on who to lynch, honestly.

[Davsto]

I'm sticking on pistach, by the way. I

may

be persuaded to compromise on Ank because I'm unsure but don't count on it.

[Davsto]

I'm not lynching Cataphant or massive today. There are much, much better targets for today.

I'd make one of my big quote walls about pistach but I'm pretty sure that Concrete has said more than enough about the subject that I probably couldn't think of anything new.

[Davsto]

Although the more and more he posts a Nacho lynch is looking more and more attractive, to be frank.

PEdit: How about Concrete's case on Pistach which I literally mentioned in that goddamn post?

[Davsto]

It'll likely take me a couple of days to properly catch up; want to try to catchup in a more pro town way than my usual "read nothing, start doing things later".

Just decided to look at Nacho's ISO and ahahahahaha

[Davsto]

It'll likely take me a couple of days to properly catch up; want to try to catchup in a more pro town way than my usual "read nothing, start doing things later".

Just decided to look at Nacho's ISO and ahahahahaha

You don't think that my catchup has been protown? Why is that?

No I just find it quite amusing that you said it'll take you a couple of days to catch up and then within a few hours you're already doing things.

@Wingback

- huh, I could swear Concrete had a case on pistach. It was probably you though, I don't really pay that much attention. Sorry

[Davsto]

Why is your vote still on Dav? Do you think that he is lying then?

He avoided taking a stance on anything in his early play, yes, I think he's lying about being The Birds.

You're kidding me, right?

[Davsto]

I mean it's not like I literally crumbed it in my first post by saying I hated cats and voting someone who kept saying "squawk".

(I

do

need to stop crumbing because it'll start affecting my scumplay since it'll make it hard to fakeclaim if crumbing becomes part of my meta, but I crumbed in this game.)

[Davsto]

I don't see how your role in any way relates to the Ninjas, Hecatia.

[Davsto]

Oh, okay. That's fair enough, I guess.

@Hecatia

- say you inspect someone on the same night they kill. Would you be told that they haven't killed anyone yet?

[Davsto]

I could potentially see Cataphant as scum but would massively prefer a Pistach lynch.

[Davsto]

Yeh, Hecatia is town. That role is so used to balance the ninjas (by giving scum a reason not to just use the ninja) that I can't see it being a fake role.

[Davsto]

Eh, that sounds weak, but the roleclaim is pretty dumb if you're scum.

Vote Ank with me?

And I'm null?

[Davsto]

Right, okay.

[Davsto]

@Dav - not to distract you from your deep and well reasoned response in 953 which makes your question well worth it.
But could you address your thoughts on 954?
I'd like to see you comment on some more stuff in game, after all, you're so townish and open in all your opinions and not sitting on the sidelines riding a claim, so this is just part and parcel for you.
But, seriously, address it - am I crazy, or does that look derpy?

It looks a bit odd, yes. You're both town, obviously.

[Davsto]

Concrete Angels isn't the lynch today, face it. I'm too tired to analyse him but he's seeming town over other alignments now.

[Davsto]

Concrete Angels isn't the lynch today, face it. I'm too tired to analyse him but he's seeming town over other alignments now.

So, basically a gut read and then you're dismissing them?
Meh.

pistach = decent post-based scumread
CA = gut townread

are you honestly berating me for advocating the first over the second?

[Davsto]

At this stage scum will want to get rid of the jailor, but try and make it viable to town. Concerning Dav's reads on people, did you feel that there wasn't enough effort in them or did you just not like them?

I don't like the slight push with no hard back up (considering that lynching Dav is going to be near enough impossible today)

You're right. I'm probably batshit to think Dav can be lynched today. That's something that should be resolved with power roles.

Although I disagree that scum would be getting rid of the JK by lynching when they can nightkill.

Going back to hecatia.

VOTE: hecatia

Yeh I'm staying on pistachi0n.

[Davsto]

I suppose I can deal with a Lying Cat lynch.

I've seen some pretty half-decent points about them I think.

[Davsto]

Okay, LC it is then. We don't have much time left so ya know.

VOTE: Lying Cat

In case I die tonight, I'd very much like a pistach lynch tomorrow still.

[Davsto]

Prodge. Still satisfied by Lying Cat lynch, this real vagueness seems to be going nowhere.

[Davsto]

Pistach, as I've stated numerous times.

[Davsto]

I will partially claim.

I am not a VT.

Is this even slightly a surprise, supposed to be one, etc? It's a UPick game, of course you're not gonna be a VT.

[Davsto]

Pistach, as I've stated numerous times.

Then vote with me there.

but we need to be fast because we only have ten fucking hours left until DL, I'm not fancying a last minute wagon change.

[Davsto]

I've not played much UPick, but I'm pretty sure that VT is a fairly bum draw. I don't know.

[Davsto]

But I'm preferring Lying Cat. Last-minute wagon changes worry me.

[Davsto]

Fair point.

pistachi0n's good too, honestly, both have a good chance of flipping scum. Let's go and hope that nothing horrible happens.

VOTE: pistachi0n
PEdit jesus, we have ten hours, we need to decide on a goddamn lynch for today.

[Davsto]

Fuck, I've been going to the first post of the day, forgot we had a timeline extension.
>.<

[Davsto]

Is this the part where I state intent to hammer?

[Davsto]

Wait, hammer was stated and then they gave a "I'm gonna claim vaguely so you don't lynch me but so I'm not nightkilled"? Surely Cat (if town) would see that being nightkilled is always better for town than being lynched?

Yeh, bollocks to it.

VOTE: Lying Cat

[Davsto]

I don't really care if you're disappointed or not. I can see Cat as being scum, I can see pistachi0n as being scum, I couldn't care less which one is lynched. Better than spending another two days basically arguing back and forth.

PEdit - when you have the highest number of posts in the entire game, you can hardly go yelling at

us

that you're disappointed in the day.

[Davsto]

VOTE: pistachio

Will look through Wingback's ISO tomorrow and see if maybe he caught onto something which resulted in his death. He was doing a lot but I reckon there's a good chance there are other motives behind his death.

[Davsto]

Aww damn, I'm afraid i didnt block massive. I was considering it but decided not to, sorry.

I'm not gonna reveal the identity of the person I did block, though, until later today. Due to Jailkeeper's nature, it's hardly that much info anyway.

[Davsto]

Don't worry about it, that almost certainly would have resulted in your death to avoid you giving any result.

[Davsto]

Yeh but for now you're pretty useful, since you're effectively forcing scum to not just use the ninja.

[Davsto]

But purely by the existence of your role, you're giving a Tracker/Watcher etc a good chance of actually getting a result. I reckon that's good. Even if you're not getting guilties, you're increasing the chance for others to get guilties.

[Davsto]

If I were to make an assumption on who scum was if they chose a Wingback kill for suspect reasons, I'd lean Cataphant or Concrete Angels.

[Davsto]

Reason I'd assume those two going by the nightkill target is this...

Absolutely not. You need a lesson in reading comprehension. I asked you questions aimed at getting you to support your arguments. No where did I say they did or didn't do anything, nor did I say that I thought they did.

The way you phrased your questions looked like you were asking me to prove a negative.

This is also an error on your part - why are you unable to understand what I said there?

You said that whether or not I agree with their read on me was irrelevant. That wasn't my point. I said that their read of me looked fake.

Let me rephrase - You said they had no reads, then said they had a read. You saying they are right or wrong - that is irrelevant to the fact that the read exists, which was what I was getting at. You made a statement, I asked you to support it, and when you didn't do so satisfactorily, I asked you to explain further.

What I said was that they had no strong reads elsewhere besides Thor and they spent 90% of their time tunneling Thor instead of developing reads elsewhere. When asked for a readslist, they listed out a bunch of reads of which I felt that their read on me looked fake.

Not logging across, anti can deal with it. Go over wing and Thor with a fine toothed comb. Sakura's result tonight is trustworthy. JK, aim for scum. If you hit the ninja you're golden.

Not super disappointed about being the lynch, tbh. It was gonna be a struggle to keep my head in the game and I'm probably taking a break from mafia for a while, so...

And there's a clear reason I didnt full claim. I didn't want the scum to know who was the most valuable no target. Confirmable in less than 1 phase should be enough

Okay, so I was wrong on Lying Cat.

Cataphant is almost certainly scum. After that, I'd look at ETL.

However, I've just realised it could have been for his claim. I'm just gonna come out of my pitiful attempt at NKA with a null result. Worth a try.

[Davsto]

If I were to make an assumption on who scum was if they chose a Wingback kill for suspect reasons, I'd lean Cataphant or Concrete Angels.

You're voting Pistach though - so...?

Because I decided that reasoning was silly and pistach is worse.

[Davsto]

I was considering whether or not to claim but I suspect the LC votes might trail off and I don't have time to check in tonight.

I will partially claim.

I am not a VT.

With my role, Hecatia's, and Davsto's, it is very unlikely LC has some sort of "confirmable" role. Their behavior points heavily to scum. I don't buy their soft-claim. They better get lynched today.

I'm not an expert on Antihero games but I expect mafia games in general to be balanced. I don't buy that the two roles outed, my role, and another confirmable role all exist in the game.

You are making me very suspicious with this last minute defense on Lying Cat.

Explain how you got to me as town please. Do you normally accuse your townreads of "making noises?"

He did some claimy stuff here, not sure how much he hinted at though. Maybe the fact he claimed he was confirmable worried scum? But idk.

[Davsto]

Wondering why scum made a nightkill is unlikely to result in good results so yeh...

[Davsto]

As someone who analysed it and came out with no idea as to why I wasn't killed, I disagree.

[Davsto]

Oh! Look! Discrediting! My favourite!

[Davsto]

I understand.

May I suggest that my newbieness and lack of accurate reads is potentially why I wasn't killed?

[Davsto]

As someone who analysed it and came out with no idea as to why I wasn't killed, I disagree.

In your expert opinion, eh?

With all due respect, I'm going to trust my own analysis and that of other seasoned players over a newbie. No offense or discredit meant, but honestly now...

To be honest massive, this is discrediting to an extent. Reads more townie though. It's "shit you're right I need to reduce your credibility" and more "look, I'm more experienced than you, don't assume that what you found was the sole truth."

[Davsto]

I picked "One-Round" Jack Sandler from The Ring, and Tony Wendice from Dial M for Murder.

[Davsto]

My problem is that Nachomamma hasn't said anything today. Speak, dude.

[Davsto]

DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS SUCKS

Nice

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Now say something

useful

, because I'm not just gonna let you get away with fluff.

[Davsto]

hey davsto and

pistachio

, any reason you ignored my posts?

Was there anything in those posts I was meant to pay particular attention to? Because I just Ctrl+F'd Dav in your ISO and saw nothing.

[Davsto]

No, I just don't tend to comment that much on things that don't really grab my attention. I just assumed by the "nothing to say?" thing you meant there was a question addressed to me that I missed.

[Davsto]

Tbf though I can't really be investigated or confirmed by other mechanics

Yay Ascetic

Least it stops RB.

[Davsto]

im saying thor is pistachios buddy

If pistachi0 flips scum, Cat has a good chance of being scum too. Setting up things like this with little reasoning are a common tell that they know one is scum (i.e., it's their scum partner) and they want a followup lynch on town.

[Davsto]

Since Nacho hasn't said anything about it, I jailed him last night. So all we know is that, if scum, he didn't make the nightkill. Jsyk.

[Davsto]

Are we going to pustachi0n?

[Davsto]

There are more than one scum, maybe another one made the kill

*surprised gasp*

*fainting*

Like seriously, the fuck are you expecting me to say?

[Davsto]

There are more than one scum, maybe another one made the kill

*surprised gasp*

*fainting*

Like seriously, the fuck are you expecting me to say?

This is a weird reaction... I'm just curious why you would decide to vote someone who has less chance of being scum than another player.

It was a weird question.

[Davsto]

I am still suspicious of pistachi0n, but that comment leading me off voting Nacho is now making me worried.

Spoiler: not actual reads, just a note to me post-game to see how close I was

Nacho, Concrete Angels, pistach/cataphant

[Davsto]

VOTE: pistachi0n hmm

[Davsto]

Enough sense.

[Davsto]

You sound surprised that I made a good pun. Maybe you're used to my bad ones.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Davsto

Ummm, you know that he claimed JK, right?
Or are you voting him just because he's voting you?

I'm not even voting him.

But this move is townie. I don't feel scum would have the balls to vote someone that most of the town considers confirmed.

[Davsto]

DICKS DICKS DICKS DICKS SUCKS

Nice

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Now say something

useful

, because I'm not just gonna let you get away with fluff.

...what?
I made that post because I didn't have time to read and catch up on the thread.
Do you really think that a player making one fluff post is worthy of a vote?

It was more an expression of frustration than a proper vote.

[Davsto]

It was more an expression of frustration than a proper vote.

You haven't really made the steps to make a proper vote yet.
Why?

VOTE: pistachi0n hmm

look at this proper vote I haven't made

[Davsto]

Why not?

[Davsto]

(read as: it's waayyyy to fucking late for me to do my traditional ISO postwall so give me 10 hours or so)

[Davsto]

He wouldn't know, unless he was investigative in which case he'd get no result. Please keep this in mind when he claims.

[Davsto]

Well its nice to know people are invested in this game.

[Davsto]

where have you seen Sakura provide a bunch of town emotional tell as scum and then play "I don't care about this game anymore"?

To be fair AtE is basically Sakura's shtick.

[Davsto]

@Dav - what's your point, literally both Nacho and I were claiming that emotions are part of Sakura's game, all we were doing was debating how to read them.
You either weren't reading what we were saying or really misunderstood it.

I must have misunderstood it; I thought he was saying "since when have you seen Sakura AtE". Didn't realise you were specifically talking about town AtEing; I'm not that well-versed in Sakura's meta.

[Davsto]

Davsto are you up for jailing nacho again? that way i can scan him and as long as you're not lying about your role that should either clear him or condemn him (or get us killed XD)

~Sakura

Hey, I was gonna suggest that too!

[Davsto]

jailing nacho again? that way i can scan him

Man, because getting an actual definitive guilty/not guilty is

terrible

.

[Davsto]

Yes, Jailing someone stops them from being inspected. Are you being dim on purpose?

[Davsto]

Yes

she can

[Davsto]

She can target an inspect on someone who has been jailed

[Davsto]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

[Davsto]

"A Jailkeeper (or Jailer)'s Night Action is one that protects its target from kills, but also Roleblocks its target."

[Davsto]

Someone who is targeted by a Jailkeeper is

protected from kills
roleblocked

Hecatia inspecting it will work
The fact that you've been on the site two years longer than me and don't understand it is honestly worrying

[Davsto]

tbf etl's version of jailkeeper is also a thing!

Generally it's referred to as "Alien" now, according to the wiki, but just to put your fears at rest I checked my Role PM and it's very clear that my interpretation is correct.

[Davsto]

I'm getting nervous about ETL.
Ever since he's been on his own I see none of the push and drive I saw from day 1.
I wonder if his hydra buddy was posting more from his hydra partner

Seconding this. I've not been liking ETL's posting as much as D1, and the Wingback kill seems to be a very odd choice for any reason apart from for his slight at-the-time Concrete Angels suspicion.

[Davsto]

Because there was me and Hecatia playing, both of whom were largely considered conftown with fairly powerful roles (Jailkeeper that can't be roleblocked, inspecting role).

And they killed Wingback.

[Davsto]

Ha, okay.

[Davsto]

Hecatia Lapislazuli - Dr. Constance Petersen, Town Psychologist - has been killed!

Spoiler:

Constance Petersen: I think the greatest harm done the human race has been done by the poets
Anthony Edwardes: Oh, poets are dull boys, most of them, but not especially fiendish.
Constance Petersen: They keep filling people's heads with delusions about love... writing about it as if it were a symphony orchestra or a flight of angels.
Anthony Edwardes: Which is isn't, eh?
Constance Petersen: Of course not. People fall in love, as they put it, because they respond to a certain hair coloring or vocal tones or mannerisms that remind them of their parents.
Anthony Edwardes: Or... or... sometimes for no reason at all.
Constance Petersen: That's not the point. The point is that people read about love as one thing and experience it as another. Well, they expect kisses to be like lyrical poems and embraces to be like Shakespearean dramas.
Anthony Edwardes: And when they find out differently, then they get sick and have to be analyzed, eh?
Constance Petersen: Yes, very often.
Anthony Edwardes: Professor, you're suffering from "mogo on the gogo"
Constance Petersen: I beg your pardon!

Dr. Constance Petersen

Alignment:

Town

Role: Psychologist

[I'm here as your doctor only. It has nothing to do with love.]

: At night you may target someone to analyze and you will get results in the form of "positive" and "negative." You will obtain positive results if you target someone with an ability to kill available to them but have not used it. *Please note that this action resolves after the kill.*

Win condition

: You win when the mafia have been eliminated.

it is now day 3. deadline is in (expired on 2015-11-18 22:48:18).

Well ain't that a shock.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

[Davsto]

I thought Nacho was checked by heca night 1

Hecatia checked massive N1.

[Davsto]

I said a hip, lop,
Hippie to the hippie,
The hip, hip a lop, and you don't stop, a rock it
To the bang bang boogie, say, up jump the boogie,
To the rhythm of the boogie, the beat.

[Davsto]

davsto,

neutral mainstream loser with no taste

, has been modkilled for being fucking lame.

Fucking hell I nearly shat myself you person D:

[Davsto]

Yes, massive isn't clear 100%. I was just pointing it out.

[Davsto]

Because if massive was scum and made the nightkill N1, that would allow him to be scum and still be "clear".

[Davsto]

Part of the reason I'm suspicious of Nacho is that I've just generally found him scummy.

Also, I know it's WIFOMy, but I find it odd that scum decided not to kill Hecatia N1, but on N2 where she was going to get a definitive result on Nacho, she was killed.

[Davsto]

It's sorta like they were hoping for the WIFOM of her not being killed to cause confusion but then they realised she was about to get a full result on one of the scum and they panicked.

[Davsto]

All of this I'm seeing but nothing's changed my mind on Nacho still. Jsyk.

[Davsto]

nacho saying he confirmed me is making me confused

Probably trying to take you down with him or something. Largely WIFOM. Ignore it.

[Davsto]

Which means that you're not thinking of this specific possibility or I'm scum who is fakeclaiming vague results without a role in mind.

I mean honestly you managed to sum up my thoughts right there.

[Davsto]

People who don't answer questions are losers!!!

Speak for yourself.

Regarding the question, it was me tunnelling and I am aware that's a bad. Sorry, nothing interesting there.

[Davsto]

Lynching Nacho is 1000% the best move. He's so obviously bullshitting, with the vague lack of claim and apparent clears and other bull. He has the highest chance of flipping scum out of all of us, fact.

[Davsto]

I became suspicious about dav after N1 when he did not die, over wingback

I mean Hecatia didn't die N1 and she was a goddamn investigative role but sure, drink that wine.

[Davsto]

davesto been coasting so fucking hard

[Davsto]

Go home, hiplop, you're drunk.

[Davsto]

Okay, Nacho, questions about your claim:

Before a lynch? Is that before the lynch actually happens or is it at twilight?
What happens if you backup a non-town player?
How would you inspect to a Flavour Cop after Backuping?

If you're actually telling the truth (I don't buy it for the record):
Would it work on an Ascetic (because if you're lynching me I sure as hell want the Jailkeeper to stay in the game because it's a goddamn good role and I ain't losing it just because you guys can't find actual scum)?

Also, can people stop just voting me with no reason and give a reason that isn't WIFOM or coasting? Because basically all of the reasons so far have been WIFOM and coasting.

[Davsto]

Actually

Fuckit

Jailkeeper's a powerful PR, giving it Ascetic so that the Backup can't keep it in the game makes perfect fucking sense for balance

I- goddammit

UNVOTE:

[Davsto]

Like I was thinking "man that seems awfully swingy when we've got a Jailkeeper and all" and then thought "wait shit ascetic" and blargh

[Davsto]

Man, I'm not sure what to think now, previously I was hella suspicious of Nacho and thought he was scum but his role actually gives a good reason for me to be ascetic (because I doubt the existence of a protective because I'm already JK) so now I'm super conflicted.

[Davsto]

knowing Hecatia was following your lead gives you a pretty good reason to not have to kill her N1.

And yet was a good enough reason for me to kill her N2?

[Davsto]

I don't understand why voting you for coasting is unacceptable; if I remember correctly, your vote on me was for coasting + some pistach reasons, correct?

I mean I think it was gut and the convenient timing of the nightkill, I don't think I expanded on it.

[Davsto]

And yes, it works on an Ascetic.

Okay well that eliminates my reasoning for thinking you're town. Onwards and upwards!

VOTE: Nachomamma8

[Davsto]

And yet was a good enough reason for me to kill her N2?

How many more investigative roles could there be? You got the role cop N1 so really there was no need to let her stick around.

But you can't go "well they let this JK live night 1 so there's a chance the JK is scum" when they also left an investigative alive night 1.

[Davsto]

Like, that is logic which is blatantly flawed from the very start.

[Davsto]

Thor's "Davsto's play in regards to Nacho is so terrible that it looks townish" is a white knight if I ever saw one.

[Davsto]

Like, that is the weakest excuse to townread someone I've ever seen.