Mini 1717 Alfred Hitchcock UPick [GAME OVER]

[Concrete Angels]

VOTE: davsto

Cat hater

[Concrete Angels]

Vote: Davsto

Also, slight town read and slight silly read on Cataphant.

slight town read on cataphant?

[Concrete Angels]

^ETL btw.

[Concrete Angels]

Vote: Davsto

Also, slight town read and slight silly read on Cataphant.

slight town read on cataphant?

Yes, I have a slight town read on him.

Why, do you have a scumread on him and are annoyed that someone is getting the opposite read?
I don't get your issue, and you're not really asking a question here, so...?

Your wording wasn't very clear. I wasn't sure if you missed a word or if you were saying two things about one person.

I was actually more curious about the speed of the read itself. Do you normally post reads like that right away at the beginning of a game?

Furthermore... I sense a strange aggression in this post. Why?

[Concrete Angels]

@Thor: I found the aggression odd considering my post was pretty obviously a clarification and not a questioning of the read itself. It seemed over the top. I wanted to know if there was a personal reason for it or something else.

[Concrete Angels]

My confusion came from the fact the components were separated and I wanted to be sure about what you were saying.

[Concrete Angels]

@Thor: I found the aggression odd considering my post was pretty obviously a clarification and not a questioning of the read itself.

I disagree with your value call on what your comment looked like.
And what is "odd" in having aggression? Lots of Mafia players have high levels of real or faked aggression - I would thinkt hat would be very normal to see and, indeed, expected - no?

Like I already said, it seemed over the top. From my perspective, I was simply asking to clarify that you were applying both statements to that player. In response, you looked like you were freaking out about it. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, since I am the one who found it unusual.

Of course aggression is to be expected. Yours was out of place in my opinion.

It seemed over the top. I wanted to know if there was a personal reason for it or something else.

Nope, thread related.
It's a hydra of Bella and hiplop that didn't even claim which head had posted (though my guess would be hiplop) - I am not claiming deep meta insight into either of them and it would be weird of me to be able to extract a meta tell from that.
For the record I will never claim deep meta insight into anyone.

Not the read, the aggression.

Eh, I'm fine with this speed wagon as currently exists.

I actually like his responses to Sakura at the moment.

In contrast, I don't like Sakura.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

Either you're sheeping or you're pushing. Which is it?

[Concrete Angels]

Of course aggression is to be expected. Yours was out of place in my opinion.

Why?

Because it seemed out of place. You can only go so basic in an explanation, Thor. It was inappropriate for the situation. It wasn't what I expected.

I actually like his responses to Sakura at the moment.

In contrast, I don't like Sakura.

Said while...voting Davsto and not voting Hecatia.

I'm okay with lynching Concrete now too.[/quote]
I didn't even realize we were voting him. MS made that vote and I just got to the thread in the last couple hours.

UNVOTE:

In any case, why are you not at all interested in my reads?

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

I mean, are you trying to sort me or find a reason to lynch me?

[Concrete Angels]

Spoiler: Not game related, but Thor, your playstyle always reminds me of this bit LOL

Starts at about 1:06

I remember you telling me how people usually find your prodding to be aggressive/arrogant/annoying.

"They just keep coming, more questions - why, why, why - until you don't even know who the fuck you are anymore! It's an INSANE DECONSTRUCTION."



p-edit - post.

[Concrete Angels]

Because it seemed out of place. You can only go so basic in an explanation, Thor. It was inappropriate for the situation. It wasn't what I expected.

You asked me to clarify if I town read someone after I stated I town read them.
Then you get miffed that I'm asking you to explain something that can't be made any simplier.
But if *I* got miffed at you it was scummy.

Hypocrisy?
This feels like hypocrisy.
How is it not?

lol.... no man. I was confused because when I first read it, I thought you were talking about two different people and then I reread it and realized there was only one player named there, and then I didn't know if I just misread it or if you mistyped it, so I quoted you and asked to clarify for my own sanity, so I could understand what you were saying and evaluate that statement.

Then, in response, you make a pretty aggressive post. You answered the question, but it was the equivalent of me going "Hey man you got the time?" and you going "It's nearly one, why don't you have your own damn watch, huh? Are you trying to say something? Are you trying to undermine me? You fuck. Get a fucking watch!"

Like.. my reaction was "whoa.. okay.... I just wanted to clarify..."

And then you continue to spiral into "well why did you think that?" and I answer you, until I literally cannot answer you anymore.

and you call me a hypocrite for that... I literally... do not understand anymore. My question was answered. This is no longer productive.

I didn't even realize we were voting him. MS made that vote and I just got to the thread in the last couple hours.

Okay.

I mean, are you trying to sort me or find a reason to lynch me?

Same difference, really.

Not at all. Either your basic motivation is to figure out my alignment or it's to get rid of me. One is very clearly a town motivation and the other isn't.

ETL

p-edit - a post.

[Concrete Angels]

I actually like his responses to Sakura at the moment.

In contrast, I don't like Sakura.

ETL

Can you go into this please?

It's been a while since I've played with Sakura, but my general impression was that she sheeps a lot because she has no confidence in her own reads. When she did it here, I didn't say anything about it for that reason.

However, she claims to be sheeping Thor, but at the same time she is attacking davsto and coming up with reasons to scumread him, while massaging Thor's ego and buddying him. Now, I don't know about you, but the reasoning usually comes BEFORE the vote/scumread, not after.

So... it looks pretty bad and I'm honestly just waiting to get with MS because he has more experience with her and notscience.

[Concrete Angels]

you think they are scum and engage with them to either strengthen or weaken that read.

Ok. I don't.

I don't vote first, and then ask questions. I ask questions and then vote.

p-edit: I don't even know what you're trying to say there.

[Concrete Angels]

Oh, so this is a playstyle clash.

No. I know her playstyle. Whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant.

The attacking despite supposedly "sheeping" and unwarranted buddying of Thor is what is scummy. That's not a playstyle thing. That's a serious contradiction.

[Concrete Angels]

Thor didn't even explain his read on davsto before she tried to turn everything he said into something scummy. In the end, he came out looking way more town than she did.

In my mind, if you really trust another player's skill to read a person better than yourself enough to sheep them, wouldn't you want to find out what they are seeing? She hasn't interacted with him at all. Instead, she's commented peripherally about how he's town and that's why she's sheeping him.

There's zero concern from her about Thor's stance or alignment at all. That's pretty incongruent.

[Concrete Angels]

I am townreading Thor.

p-edit: re: cat's post - "weirdly aggressive". Exactly.

Also please don't do the sqwauk thing. It gives me horrible flashbacks of Dark Age.

[Concrete Angels]

There's zero concern from her about Thor's stance or alignment at all. That's pretty incongruent.

Do you usually have concerns on people you're townreading?

On page 1 or 2.... uh... yes. First of all, at the time you "sheeped", there was no reason to be townreading Thor. It was clearly an arbitrary selection. Secondly, are you so sure about your townread on him that you would not question it at all and follow him blindly?

[Concrete Angels]

Vote: Davsto

Also, slight town read and slight silly read on Cataphant.

Vote: Davsto

Also, slight town read and slight silly read on Cataphant.

slight town read on cataphant?

Yes, I have a slight town read on him.

Why, do you have a scumread on him and are annoyed that someone is getting the opposite read?
I don't get your issue, and you're not really asking a question here, so...?

These were literally the only posts Thor made before you "sheeped". What is town about them?

[Concrete Angels]

Why?
Your only reason to seems to be based off a scum read of Sakura.

Nope. I like your questioning of me.

[Concrete Angels]

There's zero concern from her about Thor's stance or alignment at all. That's pretty incongruent.

Do you usually have concerns on people you're townreading?

On page 1 or 2.... uh... yes. First of all, at the time you "sheeped", there was no reason to be townreading Thor. It was clearly an arbitrary selection. Secondly, are you so sure about your townread on him that you would not question it at all and follow him blindly?

Not really, Thor's posting afterward has been increasing the townread, i haven't seen a reason to question him yet, except in the one post I quoted, which im still awaiting an answer for

~Sakura

So again, you made a decision, and then found reasons to justify it after the fact?

[Concrete Angels]

So again, you made a decision, and then found reasons to justify it after the fact?

What part of
>Thor does something i think it's town motivated
>Me gets a slight townread
>Thor does stuff that i think it's pro-town
>Townread intensifies
Don't you get.
Ugh this is getting frustrating orz

~Sakura

I asked you what was town motivated, and you never answered. I even quoted the only two posts he made before your vote, and asked you what was town about them, but you didn't answer.

[Concrete Angels]

So again, you made a decision, and then found reasons to justify it after the fact?

I'd just like to point out that this is not being refuted.

[Concrete Angels]

Hey Wingback! Good to see you again.

Give me more.

[Concrete Angels]

I already answered, I said i saw his vote on the wagon as a way to get an RVS wagon going to get us out of RVS as town motivated, i've quoted it like 2 times... ugh, im just gonna leave the thread for the time being i need a break from this

~Sakura

eh.

I'm actually ok with this.

[Concrete Angels]

not really. farside is still null for me. davsto is not a total town read, more just based on his responses to hecatia.

i've done all i want for the time being i think, so at this point i just wanna catch up with ms and then reconvene on this tomorrow.

[Concrete Angels]

Also @ETL, did you miss 94 before? It was the answer to your question, i didn't change anything from there towards 104 so i'm wondering why you're ok with it now, unless you missed the first answer.

~Sakura

I did, thanks. I wasn't sure who/what you were referring to in 94 as when I read it, I was focusing on something else.

Still not fond of how she distances Davsto's question afterwards considering she does say she changed her mind

What do you mean, "distances Davsto's questions"?

VOTE: Thor

I'm going to a band thing for one of the kids, then I'll be at work until 6am tonight if anybody wants to jam.

Steven no.

I'd like to hear more from pistachio, Vedith and Wingback.

Doing this now.

VOTE: Vedith

I'm here for the next 5ish hours to chat.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

also these people who haven't said jack shit:

hi im Yakko, massive

Anti - when will they be replaced if they do not post?

[Concrete Angels]

I'm honestly just waiting to get with MS because he has more experience with her and notscience.

Although i'd like to think you're town for this, i don't see why scum you wouldn't want to just aggro on me, and instead decided to consult with your other head who has more experience with the more recent me.

~Sakura

This post seems off. It starts off with an "although", implying that there is going to be a negative counter to the good point, but there isn't one.

It comes across that Sakura originally wanted to make a negative point but then realised she couldn't, so she just made it a positive point and forgot to edit out the remnants.

Semantics. I hate semantics reads.

Are you planning to do anything about this?

[Concrete Angels]

72 hours

jesus you are too nice. i give 24 hours to pick up role PM.

also V/LA on game start? are you fucking kidding me?

rude.

[Concrete Angels]

What do you mean, "distances Davsto's questions"?

Functionally she just admitted that she changed her opinion partway through the answer.
Davsto accused her of changing her read partway through the answer.
She called that a stretch.

But...it sounds like her reply should have been, 'yes, I did - but...'
Instead she just batted it down and walked away quickly.
Reads funny.

It's the same way she responded to me asking if she'd made a snap judgement before finding justification for it. Could just be her natural style of communication.

I know you said you don't see the point in explaining your town read on Cat. I also get that it may be unconventional. However, I do feel that enough people have asked and enough people are interested - myself included - that you should just tell us. It would help me understand you better, give me insight into what you are thinking, and that would help me to read you better. Is that not a good enough reason to share your thoughts?

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

@Concrete Angels - I Have 20mins, lets chat.

Hi. Let's start with where you stand on the game and players at this moment. Any town reads? Any scum reads? Are you still ok with your RVS vote? If not, why hasn't it changed? If so, why? And why haven't you gotten involved in any of the discussions so far?

[Concrete Angels]

Hm. Ok... well... You're in BC so like.. it's not like you're across the globe and have vastly different hours than we do. Looking at some of your completed town games shows quite a bit of difference concerning your activity and level of engagement.

I don't feel that your contribution thus far is.. well.. any good at all, and I find it exceptionally suspect that you're "busy because weekend" but have been unable to post anything other than a single RVS vote since Thursday evening... yet managed to show up within 10 minutes of being voted to respond to me.

[Concrete Angels]

Aaaand...... you've been consistently posting elsewhere.

So... yeah. I'm very happy with my vote now.

[Concrete Angels]

..... you've been consistently posting elsewhere.

So... yeah. I'm very happy with my vote now.

I'm not sure I have posted properly on here any Friday evening and hardly ever on a Saturday.
You obviously looked into my games, and yet you haven't even read what I've posted in them.

Actually, you've been posting consistently since this game started in many other threads, except for this thread. One only needs to check your posts on your profile to see the quality and content for evaluation. It is clear that either you are in too many games and need to replace out, or you are purposely avoiding posting anything of substance here.

You claim I posted here Thursday, when the time I posted here first was on Friday morning while at work, where I then had small amount of activity in the day on a select amount of threads threads (Average of about 2/3 posts a thread).

This is a lie.

So I suggest if you are going to use this as an excuse, 1 - You learn my time zone and 2 - you actually learn my activity patterns.

For the rest who say that this is a valid argument, explain how and explain your scum read further.

Not changing my vote.

I posed you several questions that you did not answer, even after you returned to the thread to dispute what is easily verified with your posting history.

Thor has not done anything alignment indicative yet, so I'm more than happy to let sthar8 ply the vote there for now.

Whatever. That's fine. I understand what you are doing. I go back and forth on him but it still within the town to null town range.

You're wrong about davsto.

I'm gonna take a moment to cry in public because ETL doesn't love me anymore.

-Jingle

wth are you talking about? You're still my favorite newbie.

I presume "stubble" means, not facial hair but is in reference to Hepasoihroaij's sheeping?
I really don't follow this answer even with that concept in my head.
If it's about Concrete Angel - then...is it "stumble" Eh, this makes a bit more sense, are you suggesting sloppy play is more common from...town, even though you look to be saying the opposite, though I happily admit to being lost as to this sentence - clarify?

I read it as "stumble" but then this

@thor; I meant sutle not stubble.
Don't ask

And the sentence makes even less sense. Also 178 is like drunk texting. I didn't have that much trouble reading/understanding farside before so I wonder what happened there.

@Far, glad to see you're town <3

????????????????

Ew.

oh. Farside? This just looks like town farside to me!

More ew. Do you always sound so unnatural like you are trying to force carefreeness?

Note to self, CA and Far side are not scum together.

Don't be dumb. I did the same thing to Guyett when we were partners together (with Flubber/ward).

LC looks town.

ETL has shown the minor towntells I'd expect from town her this early, but not enough to make that read solid.

Which of you posted this? If not Sthar8, I'm interested in hearing his read on Concrete.

That was Jingle.

Not a fan of the Vedith wagon, because sometimes people semi-lurk as both alignments.

True. But they don't actively lurk the way Vedith has. I find your resistance to Vedith and your support of the counterwagon interesting. Doubly interesting if he should flip scum or HL flip town.

I wonder if I'm out guessing the mod

no. Anti is pretty awesomely expert at setup creation. There's no gaming the mod with him.

it gives scum a decent guess at what people's roles are

It doesn't. But I agree; I see no reason for flavor claiming at this juncture.

202 does not make me feel any better about Vedith. Only comments about the last page.

More votes on Vedith please.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

It usually helps people to understand what you are trying to say...

if you actually say something about what you're showing.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm actually gonna do this now.

VOTE: Cataphant

[Concrete Angels]

Both ETL ^

[Concrete Angels]

Going back to this, actually.

VOTE: Hecatia

[Concrete Angels]

sakura i am approving ETL's vote on you.

show me some cool obvtown stuff plz

[Concrete Angels]

you are one of my main objectives to sort out ASAP so you should be honored

[Concrete Angels]

hahahahahahahahaha

thats funny ms!

^ not town indignation.

[Concrete Angels]

what's so funny?

are you scum?

[Concrete Angels]

well im sorry im crossposting in games with sakura

[Concrete Angels]

you shall from now on be faced with notty

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Concrete Angels]

notty i just realized you were online on sitechat rn so WHOOPS

[Concrete Angels]

no you very clearly cant tell the two of us apart

MS can't, but I can.

And you know I can read you. So come on. Let's have at it.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

obvtown my stinking arse

~sonic

[Concrete Angels]

if you know you can read me why did you want to differ to ms earlier in the game

Were you posting earlier in the game or was it just Sakura?

Right. It was just Sakura.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

thanks for your reads

[Concrete Angels]

who should i vote sir notty
~sonic

[Concrete Angels]

i want to talk to sakura. a lurky sakura is a scummy sakura
also just noticed you guys dumped the 'notSakura hydra? lol


-sonic

[Concrete Angels]

wow makai mix really is ages ago

<3

[Concrete Angels]

sakura what are YOUR reads?


((i trust them more))

`sonic

[Concrete Angels]

reasons?


why dont you have a read on us?

sonic

[Concrete Angels]

oooh, so you're using BoP on me now eh??

do you think it is very easy to differentiate town you and scum you then?

sonic

[Concrete Angels]

Going back to this, actually.

VOTE: Hecatia

So what changed at this stage? You seemed pretty certain of me being scum and yet your vote comes off?

we had a talk

sonic

[Concrete Angels]

oooh, so you're using BoP on me now eh??

do you think it is very easy to differentiate town you and scum you then?

sonic

I'd like to think i'm easy to read.
I'd also like to think notty's easy to read.
Ergo this hydra should be very easy to read.

~Sakura

but i don't have a townread on you.... i don't feel comfortable that you are town...

that's a problem, right!

sonic

[Concrete Angels]

you know what, you're easier to read when you're playing solo


s

[Concrete Angels]

ok!

if i read you right and you flip scum no hard feelings ok!

just doing my job

ms

[Concrete Angels]

This feels like a cop out excuse when we're both signing our posts, well notty isn't, but it's obvious who's posting what.

your post frequency would be higher when you're solo


ms

[Concrete Angels]

nah i forgot, too long ago


those games were before you took your break anyway

ms

[Concrete Angels]

i talked to my hydra partner. you're quite easy to mislynch.

we also reread your iso a few times


ms

[Concrete Angels]

Mine.

Anti - my bad. Quoting, so you can delete erroneous, out of hydra post.

Concrete Angels a lot less for joining onto that wagon with the reason of easy to mis lynch.

Errm... what? I know it's easy to miss the case when you don't read the game, but seriously... are you even trying?

My actual comment is the others joining onto the wagon, and the sudden change of heart from Concrete with the '100% scum' attitude towards me to mis lynch potential. It makes no sense to me.

Then it is a failure of understanding on your part. We are a hydra. Two people with different ideas and the ability to bounce those ideas off each other. MS needed time to get into the game. I was posting for the most part since beginning. Once he was all caught up, he gave me his ideas. We do not agree about you. I think you are scum. I'd gladly see you hang. He thinks you are lynchbait. I disagree. However, we both agree on Hecatia, and if you'd actually read the game, you'd know exactly why.

So before you start throwing around false accusations about "easy wagons" and "no case", I suggest YOU inform YOURSELF.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

pistach0n, I'm not seeing the same inquisitive curiosity about people's intentions as I did in the town game I played with you. What's up with that?

[Concrete Angels]

@Wingback: I see a lot of good questions, but I'm wondering - what conclusions have you reached based on the responses you've received?

[Concrete Angels]

we also reread your iso a few times

What insights were gained?

I am still waiting for an actual reply to this question.
Is there ever going to be one - or should I stop asking?

I missed it, but was that directed to both of us or were you interested in MS's thoughts specifically?

The only thing I personally gained from rereading was that I'm going back and forth on you. I currently have you in "prob town" category. I think your probing is good, and you have appropriate follow-up questions. You've littered a few conclusions here and there as well, which is satisfactory for the time being. There are little things that bother me, some things paranoia-based, and just a general lack of confidence in my ability to read you correctly. The other thing is also more peripheral than something you've done yourself, which is the fact that I feel like I had too many townreads in the beginning, which leads me to think that at least one or maybe two of the scum team members are quite skilled at looking town. So, combined you land in the "likely town but I don't feel good enough about it to put him to the side just yet" area.

[Concrete Angels]

He thinks you are lynchbait

After 1 game played with me. But hey, what do I know.

So you think a person is unable to form an opinion about someone else after completing an entire game with them?

How long is appropriate then, in your opinion?

[Concrete Angels]

Well it depends what they are saying.
If the comment is - Over dramatic, then yeah 1 game can give that indication.
Something like - He's lynch bait would normally take more 1 one game in my opinion.
Either that or every town I have ever played with that has been lynched can be considered as lynchbait.

But you 2 are the pros I guess.

Is there a reason you're being condescending, or is it just in an effort to discredit our opinions? He said he thinks you're lynchbait. Big deal. I really don't think he cares if you like that or not, or if you agree or not.

My personal opinion is that you are a defensive newbie with misplaced arrogance who has taken on too many games. I also think you're scum because I've looked at what threads you've been posting in. I saw posts consistently from Thursday up to yesterday that had more than a basic prod dodge as you did here. That indicates there is something different about this game, and makes me wonder what exactly that is. I asked you, along with some other questions about your thoughts, and instead of actually answering, you gave me some lip service about being busy.

So... yeah. You asked a question; we answered it.

[Concrete Angels]

what motive does scum-vedith have to push the counter to his wagon looks like a mislynch

none!

Are you defending Vedith?

[Concrete Angels]

VOTE: concrete

Hi ns. Thank you for confirming you are scum.

[Concrete Angels]

lol 2 scum on the wagon

Who are they?

Besides us, because we're not.

[Concrete Angels]

lol 2 scum on the wagon

Who are they?

Besides us, because we're not.

^ please respond, ns.

[Concrete Angels]

we also reread your iso a few times

What insights were gained?

I am still waiting for an actual reply to this question.
Is there ever going to be one - or should I stop asking?

I missed it, but was that directed to both of us or were you interested in MS's thoughts specifically?

The only thing I personally gained from rereading was that I'm going back and forth on you. I currently have you in "prob town" category. I think your probing is good, and you have appropriate follow-up questions. You've littered a few conclusions here and there as well, which is satisfactory for the time being. There are little things that bother me, some things paranoia-based, and just a general lack of confidence in my ability to read you correctly. The other thing is also more peripheral than something you've done yourself, which is the fact that I feel like I had too many townreads in the beginning, which leads me to think that at least one or maybe two of the scum team members are quite skilled at looking town. So, combined you land in the "likely town but I don't feel good enough about it to put him to the side just yet" area.

That's very sexy and flattering and all.

But Vedith was the one you guys had said you re-read.
Wasn't even aware that you were re-reading me.

We re-read everyone's ISO. For Vedith, I felt a bit better about him based on some of the things he said when he finally got involved, but I didn't think it was enough to clear him. MS came to the conclusion that he was lynchbait.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm more and more convinced we are correct on Hecatia the more ns posts.

p-edit: Like I said, if you are town, then consider we are town and work from there. What is your conclusion at that point?

[Concrete Angels]

Also, why on earth are you townreading pistachi0n?

[Concrete Angels]

excpt you aren't town so im not going to consider that?

Because that's what you do when you try to figure things out. You can keep your scumread. But answer the question based on the hypothetical situation I've posed to you.

pedit-

"Who can explain it, who can tell you whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?"

the scumread on us for squawking looks like overeager newbtown who has like this simplistic one-dimensional view of the game based of froggie mafia we just finished id say that fits town pistachios p well.

It doesn't fit my experience with him, where he showed a genuine curiosity about people's ideas and tried to understand them. I don't see that here.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, ns, and attempting to work with you for a moment to see if we are wrong. You are not giving me much confidence in that idea.

[Concrete Angels]

if that hypothetical is true then there is only 1 scum on me.

which would be massive. are you actively scumreading massive or is it just based on the wagon?

the only one i have the slightest doubts about is davy but nah.

also pistachios is a she!

My bad.

[Concrete Angels]

MS came to the conclusion that he was lynchbait.

I presume by this answer that he didn't deign to explain why he thought this?

I'll ask him.

[Concrete Angels]

viewtopic.php?p=7214663#p7214663

Thanks for this. That game does look like her other town game. Again, I see off-the-cuff curiosity, questions aimed at understanding. And again, I

don't

see that in this game.

[Concrete Angels]

MS came to the conclusion that he was lynchbait.

I presume by this answer that he didn't deign to explain why he thought this?

I'll ask him.

Just so you are aware, he is on the other side of the planet, and just went to bed. He said he has a math final tomorrow, so I expect to hear from him after that. I sent him a fb message about it.

[Concrete Angels]

i can see what you're saying but that read based off the squawk still feels like awkward newbtown to me so ill think over it some

why did you not tear me a new one for being a nonentity early

It was the beginning of the game. I'm more concerned when you fall off the face of the earth in late game or LYLO.

[Concrete Angels]

It's a lot different when you are in a hydra. Your partner was active. If you were playing solo, I'd have poked at you more about it, like I did with the others.

[Concrete Angels]

Why would my yelling at you, or not yelling at you, be any indication of alignment? I yelled you openly about it in Dark Age AND that Anti game. In fact, it was my sole argument against you in an attempt to deflect making a real read on you in LYLO. Don't you remember that? My irritation at certain playstyles is pervasive across all games, regardless of alignment.

[Concrete Angels]

MS came to the conclusion that he was lynchbait.

I presume by this answer that he didn't deign to explain why he thought this?

I have a couple of games with him, mostly ongoing because he replaces in like a Constantine (without the trolling), and from his play in those games I made a value judgement. I conclude that he has a high propensity to be a mislynch target. Thus, I'm setting the sensitivity meter on vedith to low.


Thanks for your understanding

Ms

[Concrete Angels]

Okay, here's the rub. I'm soloing this game for the foreseeable future. sthar8 may come back, he may not, but I intend to rock the shit out of this game for him.

Rock the shit out of it.

Now who should I be voting?

If you're scum I'll rock the shit out of you. This time with ETL boost. Be warned.


If you're town, date me ^^

Ms

[Concrete Angels]

Concrete is trying to become one, trying very hard.

this made me chuckle.

Jingles I'd like to try a sync with you sometime today.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

What does that have to do with lurking?
Did he lurk a lot in those games you read?
Was he mislynched for being a lurker?

Considering the fact that these questions are regarding ongoing games, I'm suggesting that MS not explain those particular reasons any further, and stick to ideas based on this game.

If you have a point or conclusion you are trying to reach with questions about MS' read on Vedith, get to it. Otherwise, it just looks like questions for the sake of questions.

[Concrete Angels]

I have no issue with your questioning; just the path it was going. the rephrasing is fine I think.

whoops. mine.

far - "I see scum subtle more when pushed than town" is not a sentence that makes any sense to me.

[Concrete Angels]

I assume you meant subtle because "sutle" is not a word.

[Concrete Angels]

I assume you meant subtle because "sutle" is not a word.

Bingo.

The sentence makes even less sense though, so some clarification would be grand.

[Concrete Angels]

The fact we are voting you suggests you, really, doesn't it? Like, what was the point of that question? I'm assuming Ank is not calling herself scum, and calling it town driven, so by POE she must think CA is scummy. Unless she was talking about the original wagon on you, which was 'Concrete Angels, Thor665, Cataphant, Hecatia Lapislazuli'. If Ank thinks some of those were 'scum sheeping', I think you should ask her who, not us 0.0

I said regardless of me. Of course you think I'm scum but how about the other 2 on yours?

Nice touch parroting my methods right after I did it. lol...

[Concrete Angels]

What does that have to do with lurking?
Did he lurk a lot in those games you read?
Was he mislynched for being a lurker?

Considering the fact that these questions are regarding ongoing games, I'm suggesting that MS not explain those particular reasons any further, and stick to ideas based on this game.

If you have a point or conclusion you are trying to reach with questions about MS' read on Vedith, get to it. Otherwise, it just looks like questions for the sake of questions.

You are well aware of how I scumhunt so this feels pretty pathetic as a raised issue.

Allow me to rephrase the question to a yes/no one with no discussion of ongoing games included;

In MS's opinion - is specific game lurking part of Vedith's town meta?

There, that is a legit question that *can* be answered.

No

[Concrete Angels]

What do you think I saw?

I assumed it was related to this and statements surrounding this:

@Far, glad to see you're town <3

[Concrete Angels]

ETL ^

Also, as far as syncing taking time due to RL, that's fine, I understand. But this is a forum afterall, so even if we don't do it in real-time, I can always catch your posts when I get to them and vice-versa.

Let's start with basic reads and go from there. The only thing I really have for you is that you want to vote-park on Thor for *reasons*.

[Concrete Angels]

Nah - you called me out on questioning for the sake of questioning. That's a call on the method, not the path of talking about ongoing games.
You lying to my face?

The wording could maybe have been better, but that was the only thing I had an issue with.

[Concrete Angels]

feels WKish to me, and I think ETl reaalized it and tried to head it off at the pass.

*sigh* Ok. You'd be wrong, but ok.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

I think you should back that up with a vote, Thor. I'm sure there would be plenty of support.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm V/LA for the weekend (every weekend). Though I'll probably pop in once tomorrow while I'm at work.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

UNVOTE: Hecatia

MS

[Concrete Angels]

Do you notice any difference in Davsto's play then? Is he acting scummier? Or are you just performing some OMGUS power?

Ms

[Concrete Angels]

Which game is this?

[Concrete Angels]

Wait fuck I missed a pie game??

[Concrete Angels]

OK. I will take a look at davsto later I've seen a couple of his games

I remember sorting him as town early game though!


Ms

[Concrete Angels]

My biggest issue with Davvyboy is he has a whopping 2 committed reads. The rest of his ISO is devoted to waffling, talking about us, or "man I just can't get my head in this game darn."

I noticed this. Gonna talk to ETL about it. She had davsto as town earlier and I agreed but I just got hit by apathy a week ago so I forgot everything what's going on



Ms

[Concrete Angels]

Town-
Vedith
Bulge
Farside
Thor

Maybetown-
Concrete
Cat things
pistachios
liarliarpantsonfire

I think a davvyboy scumflip bumps concrete up to the solid town list.

Why? I'm townreading him.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

something hinky with that ank flashwagon.

yoops.

[Concrete Angels]

Ankamius - 5 (The Bulge, Vedith, Thor665, Cataphant, Hecatia Lapislazuli)

The Bulge

voted Ankamius... for reasons unknown, actually.

So this is gonna be weird

And I might even re-read and change my mind

But

VOTE: Ankamius

Sorry, assignment due in every class tomorrow/Monday, busy busy busy but I'll post my thoughts + vote explanation when I'm not on the shitter at 2 am.

And this was the last we heard from him.

Vedith

voted because of this @massive, and I can follow the logic of "either A and B are scum together or A is town and B is scum, but in both scenarios, B is scum":

Ank is voting Cataphant where only I am as well. However, he's happy to move over if a wagon forms on you.

He states that he thinks you are scum, so I wonder why he wouldn't vote on you to try and encourage the wagon. The thought of you being scum also came after your comment on him to make it look kind of a counter scum point.

To me I feel that there are 2 tells here -

1 - You are both scum, trying to distance yourselves
2 - Ank is scum and you are town. This gives him an option to move wagon from Cataphant (Who I think as scum, automatically making them a scum partner in my theory) to someone else if it builds up.

It does feel a bit confbiased as the possibility of B (Ankamius) being town isn't considered or discussed at all. I'd be interested in seeing how/why those scenarios were discarded (at least just to get an idea of his thinking there).

Thor

voted Ankamius.. also for no discernible reason. I mean, I can assume from context that it has to do with Ank's interactions just prior to 495 but Thor hasn't explicitly given any specific reasons.

Cataphant

made a whole wall case on the matter in 500 and seems to be based on hydra agreement (gut) and ank's response (or lack thereof?) to Vedith's case. Honestly I'm not sure - I'm pretty certain I'm missing it here because this looks silly.

Hecatia

is voting him because, like Cataphant, hydra agreement and... oh, the same exact thing..? I guess his reaction to being wagoned.

So, regardless of Ank's alignment, both Bulge and Thor's votes are wonky. I can follow Vedith's logic even though I feel like he's missing a lot of analysis there, and I can accept that Cataphant and Hecatia are working on meta (gonna check with MS on that).

I need to talk this over with MS. I think I have something.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

Hecatia Lapislazuli - 5 (farside22, pistachi0n, massive, Davsto, Concrete Angels)

^ Hecatia wagon at its largest.

VS

Ankamius - 5 (The Bulge, Vedith, Thor665, Cataphant, Hecatia Lapislazuli)

^ The Ankamius wagon.

Ooo.... Completely different voters on each.

The Hecatia wagon built slowly while the Ankamius wagon appeared out of nowhere. My first instinct would be that Ank is town and Hecatia is not, but MS thinks Hecatia is probably town now, and I felt the same way after interacting with ns a bit a few days ago or last week or whenever that happened.

If Hecatia is town then, why did it take so much effort to get it to 5 votes? Someone somewhere was working against it, and I don't really see a reason for that, at least, not collectively by town.

MS we need to talk.

And I need to reread.

[Concrete Angels]

By the way, Thor's vote is the most suspicious on the Ank wagon.

[Concrete Angels]

If bulge isn't going to fucking play, he can get the fuck out, please.

[Concrete Angels]

VOTE: Thor665

[Concrete Angels]

the bulge has been prodded.

No. Replace.

[Concrete Angels]

VOTE: Especially the lies

Where are you??

@LC - wth... were you high? I know you know you were already voting Thor, and I know you saw that I am voting Thor now as well, because you responded to posts before and after my vote.

p-edit: Vedith - just wanted to know what made you discard the scenarios where he is town.

[Concrete Angels]

Top suspects are Thor and pistachi0n, with third possibility being in the nulls/lurkers or one that MS and I disagree on.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

Your case on me is that my Ank vote is the scummiest on the wagon - yes?

Nope.

[Concrete Angels]

That's one of the factors, yes. Just not the only one.

[Concrete Angels]

Indeed.

[Concrete Angels]

@ ETL, can you answer my question to you in my wall?

Nope. It was an alt game, so I'd rather not, but you can just as easily look at the player's completed games under his topic list.

mine.

jingle it's extremely concerning that you aren't worried about me at all.

[Concrete Angels]

to the point hat you aren't even paying attention to us.

[Concrete Angels]

pretty sure bargaining is against site rules.

[Concrete Angels]

Can we pretty please just lynch Ank?

I'll give out sexual favors.

We could also lynch davvyboy, because for all the talk he does about how much he scumreads us he sure isn't trying to campaign our wagon or read other people.

Get better reads.

This is like asking a polar bear to eat vegetables.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm all for making fun of reads, but, Concrete, methinks you're in a glass house on that one.

You're kidding... right?

Are you seriously saying that I have a history on this site of consistently having terrible reads?

[Concrete Angels]

Actually, as long as the two of you are here;

@Ank
@Concrete

React to Lying Cat's hypocrisy issue with me.

because he seems awfully convinced, and I find it utterly laughable, so at least one of us is probably being sketchy in how we're approaching it. Which one is it in your opinion and why?

No.

[Concrete Angels]

1. No, I am not kidding - your

current vote

is hyper weak and you're well aware of it, so why dog on someone else? ust, generically, wanting to dog on her? If so you're rude, and I miss the point, and if it's about this game who are you to do so?

You missed the point of my post buddy. Sakura is notorious for having consistently bad reads, always. For ank to ask her to get better reads is practically asking the impossible. Your response of, "you're in a glass house" means you think the same of me.

And I don't care if it's rude. The truth is not always nice. My point was to tell ank that his efforts would be better spent elsewhere.

2. Why not? That is a reasonable request for input into the game. Why avoid it?

Not avoiding it, just don't feel like doing it at the moment because I ate a ton of chicken at lunch and I'm feeling lethargic. Also you irritated me with your first post. So you can wait until I feel like it.

[Concrete Angels]

Also no, I don't think my current vote is "hyper weak". I feel good about it.

p-edit: well the same applies unless he's scum, in which case, beware of accuracy.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm in a crotchety mood. I apologize. I'll come back later.

[Concrete Angels]

It is presented as paranoia and issue with a vote due to theory of counterwagon push while not voting the primary person that is required to be scum *for* it to be a counterwagon push.

Incorrect.

[Concrete Angels]

Also ank, that

was

Sakura you were talking to.

[Concrete Angels]

Hi davsto.

[Concrete Angels]

It is presented as paranoia and issue with a vote due to theory of counterwagon push while not voting the primary person that is required to be scum *for* it to be a counterwagon push.

Incorrect.

I suppose that might be true, you weren't the one calling it a counter, you just generically called it hinky.
But even at that point, it's not like it's a well supported case, so I think my initial point holds fine.

It's supported enough in my head for me to feel good about the vote and to feel that I'm on the right track. I don't need to convince you about it. Sure I could spend time and effort convincing others about it, but I don't particularly want to at the moment, and I don't think it's necessary. It's D1 and I'm less than certain of where I need to be looking anyway, so really a flip for any of my possible suspects would work just as well.

[Concrete Angels]

I mean, I can assume from context that it has to do with Ank's interactions just prior to 495 but Thor hasn't explicitly given any specific reasons.

And, actually, going back and looking at your stated issue - it's kind of silly that you basically think you know why I did it, but don't ask, *and* declare that it makes me the weakest vote even while not bothering to double check your presupposition or explaining why your presupposition equates to weakness of vote.
So, yeah, my initial point holds - if this is a "fine" case what makes Hecatia's "Weak"?

I care less about the reasons, and more about the action itself. Also I'm not really listening to anything Hecatia is saying anymore, so I don't really know what you're talking about.

[Concrete Angels]

yeah -- not lynching davsto -- EVER


ms

[Concrete Angels]

Just FYI - I'm working straight through this weekend and next, followed by midterms and projects due. I'd like to get a flip sometime soon.

I support the following wagons:

pistachi0n
Thor
bulge/replacement

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

I'm not stupid, I have good reasons for targeting you with Jail. Trust me. I know you have plenty of reason not to, but trust me.

I'm gonna vote pistach.

VOTE: Pistachi0n

Don't be dumb. Don't broadcast your jail target. Don't target Hecatia. Choose someone else.

Hi Nacho. I don't like your vote.

pistachi0 or Thor?

[Concrete Angels]

Anyway, I still don't buy it so I'm gonna be blocking you tonight, but lynching you is not the right choice.

This is unacceptable.

If she's town, she's being killed tonight because investigative roles are good for town and hella difficult to get lynched. In all honesty, I'm protecting her; getting a result won't help anyone if she's dead, keeping her alive is thus a better result.

if you jail them, they wont get any result.

[Concrete Angels]

Anyway, I still don't buy it so I'm gonna be blocking you tonight, but lynching you is not the right choice.

This is unacceptable.

If she's town, she's being killed tonight because investigative roles are good for town and hella difficult to get lynched. In all honesty, I'm protecting her; getting a result won't help anyone if she's dead, keeping her alive is thus a better result.

if you jail them, they wont get any result.

And if I don't, they'll also get no result because they'll be dead.

in one scenario, they are dead, but their flip is confirmed, thus providing associative reasoning.
in the other scenario, they get no result, someone else dies, and they are still a question mark.

davsto, i am asking you to please not play your role like an idiot, because they are not the threat. you are. you likely only have tonight to use your ability, so use it wisely.

p-edit: why not

[Concrete Angels]

Okay so I

was

gonna say that I was gonna Jail her so scum didn't kill her but

actually

Jail someone else so she got a damn result, but because of you people being goddamn inquisitive buffoons I'm not gonna do that and Hecatia's probably gonna die tonight. You happy now?

no she's not. you know who scum take out before the investigatives? the claimed protectives. if you want to play this like you were gonna do this instead of that and blah blah blah blah, let me just tell you for future reference, don't say anything about who you are going to target.

jeebus.

[Concrete Angels]

pistachi0 or Thor?

I won't be voting either of these players today, apologies.

Why not?

[Concrete Angels]

pistachi0 or Thor?

I won't be voting either of these players today, apologies.

Why not?

I am town reading both players.

LOL WTF NACHO.

how in the hell are you town-reading pistachi0n???? have you played with her before?

[Concrete Angels]

Well

sorry

for trying to do a gambit that would let an investigative get something done.

Also, I'm not buying Ank!scum. I'm still fairly seeing it as pistach. Sue me.

Go to MD and look up "gambit".

and then never try to gambit in a game ever again.

[Concrete Angels]

both ninjas

uh what?

[Concrete Angels]

my eyes are glazing. i'm glad nacho's here but i'm pretty sure at this point that he's scum. i'd like a flip soon.

[Concrete Angels]

yeah yeah i foundn it.

[Concrete Angels]

Why are you opting for the change?

It turns out that I'm better at reading people when I actually read their posts

my eyes are glazing. i'm glad nacho's here but i'm pretty sure at this point that he's scum. i'd like a flip soon.

Because I disagree with your reads?
Why not talk to me about why you have the reads you do if that's the case?

my reasoning for suspecting pistacho is in my ISO. same for Thor. i am in the middle of doing homework and just trying to keep up with all the new posts, so i'm not really inclined to go doing your job for you.

[Concrete Angels]

You see problem is.
Nacho has never scumread me when im town. Ever.
He just wants to use notscience to justify the mislynch and now is harping on me for being unable to show him why notscience is town when

I know

he's town.

Nacho's scum. Tho i'll talk with notty if he prefers to lynch there instead of Ank.

~Sakura

what about thor or pistachio

[Concrete Angels]

It turns out that I'm better at reading people when I actually read their posts

Sure, but why this game for the change?

Also - congrats to us both on that perfect mini
Be town in this one too, that worked well even if I kept being paranoid about you.

PEdit - oooh, you'll love the case CA has on me.[/sarcasm]

dont be a butthead. just because i got lazy doesn't mean my observations are invalid. i dont appreciate this shitty attempt at discrediting me. he can find it himself and call it shitty if he wants.

[Concrete Angels]

VOTE: pistachi0n

likely will be MS here for the next few days.

[Concrete Angels]

Also - why does every post from you make me feel like we've never played together before or discussed theories about how I play the game?
Because that's what I keep getting, and it's not making me happy-happy about you.

every time we've played together, i've been scum. this is a totally different ballgame. i know nothing about you here.

[Concrete Angels]

i'm keeping in mind the discussions we've had and what i've observed of your town game. i'm not finding it easy to determine if you're one way or the other right now.

[Concrete Angels]

i'd rather not lynch nacho today.

[Concrete Angels]

"scum have daytalk" slip earlier

the only reason i didn't jump down hec's throat for that one was because this is an Anti game and he loooooooooves day chat.

[Concrete Angels]

i've never played a game of his where he didn't mention it in the OP somewhere. the ninjas thing is new information though. and i don't know how i feel about it.

[Concrete Angels]

that.... has nothing to do with how i feel about it.

[Concrete Angels]

I don't see how your role in any way relates to the Ninjas, Hecatia.

Ninjas are not seen by watchers/trackers/followers when making the kill. Hecatia's role identifies players with the ability to kill people and indicates whether they have or not. It has nothing to do with tracking the killer the night they kill, which means the Ninja is still susceptible to being caught for making a kill.

[Concrete Angels]

It's a clever way to diminish the power of the ninja role.

[Concrete Angels]

MS and I agree that Cataphant is gross.

[Concrete Angels]

I could potentially see Cataphant as scum but would massively prefer a Pistach lynch.

Same here.

[Concrete Angels]

How in the heck are we Null Thor... what a cop out. We've interacted well enough for you to give some judgement. You've never had a problem doing so in our other games.

mine.

Thor, I feel like you have seen my scum game enough to know the difference. I feel like you pulling a null on me rather than just calling me scum is icky and fence-sitty and inappropriate. If you are town and literally think I'm a shitty player, then so be it, but there's more than enough evidence in my ISO to show what I've been thinking and why I thought it. I don't expect you to town read me. But I do expect a read, and null isn't a read. It's cop out. I've been transparent enough that you should be able to form an opinion of my motivations one way or the other. It's not like I've been cryptic or absent.

[Concrete Angels]

AND if you are town and you just think I'm shitty, tell me why.

[Concrete Angels]

So basically I'm a null read.
That you vote parked on.
Because I had a vote which you didn't fully see as non-opportunistic.
Without asking me why I did it.
And aware of the idea that I favor aggressive wagoning.

Tell me why this shouldn't look weird? Because it looks weird.

@CA

Also, I answered this.

[Concrete Angels]

Also - why does every post from you make me feel like we've never played together before or discussed theories about how I play the game?
Because that's what I keep getting, and it's not making me happy-happy about you.

every time we've played together, i've been scum. this is a totally different ballgame. i know nothing about you here.

i'm keeping in mind the discussions we've had and what i've observed of your town game. i'm not finding it easy to determine if you're one way or the other right now.

[Concrete Angels]

Thor, I feel like you have seen my scum game enough to know the difference.

I never really claim that type of meta awareness on anyone - you can ask Nacho, I always act like meta reading is a deep and fascinating mystery.

Yeah that's great and all but this isn't some puzzling piece of insight. It's not like "ETL always uses contractions as town but never as scum" kind of nonsense. This is the fact that you've played with me only when I was scum. So any major, glaring differences in play should be noticed. Is that an unfair expectation?

I feel like you pulling a null on me rather than just calling me scum is icky and fence-sitty and inappropriate.

So you're saying I do that as scum?

I'm saying that I expected you to make a more concrete judgement on me by this point and you haven't. That fact makes me think you are being fence-sitty for reasons other than "oh you are so weird".

I've been transparent enough that you should be able to form an opinion of my motivations one way or the other. It's not like I've been cryptic or absent.

I will agree you have been present.

Then why are you having such a hard time coming up with a solid read on me?

AND if you are town and you just think I'm Smurfy, tell me why.

I have - remember that whole case thing?
Remember how I'm "demeaning it" and attacking you subtly and trying to downplay you to Nacho?
You blew up at me over that, now you're acting like I haven't been clear with a stated issue about why I find your play Smurfy?
Serious?

No, look. The thing I got irritated about was the interjection. Not the fact that you called it "smurfy" already.

In a group conversation, you can handle dialogue several ways. One way would be to allow people to discuss a topic between themselves so they can come up with their own conclusions. Another way is to sit on them and interject your commentary unnecessarily, despite the fact that the commentary already exists.

I'm not sure I even expect you to understand this. It's an attitude thing. It has nothing to do with the point of what you were saying, it was the purpose behind the action itself.

Also, I answered this.

If the quotes from before the question are the answer - is your answer best described as "paranoia"?
Because you don't seem to be saying anything.
You also seem to be hedging me into a null read while complaining that I'm putting you in a null read - what are your thoughts on that?

I don't have you at a null read. I think you are scummy. You apparently have no clue whatsoever about me at all.

ETL

[Concrete Angels]

ETL, based on your experience with Lying Cat, is it normal for them to solely focus on one player? What's your read on them now?

My read on them is leave them alone until much later. I am not expecting this game to by like their other games, for the simple fact that it's just Jingle playing and he is extremely distracted by RL things.

At the moment, we are null-town-reading them. There's something that I know will happen if they are town, and it will happen later, and if I don't see it, I will let everyone know.

[Concrete Angels]

Type faster Thor.

[Concrete Angels]

Also where's Nacho I wanna chat with Nacho.

[Concrete Angels]

I suppose, what I should have said then, is that I've been trying to see you as town, and having trouble doing that.

I know for a fact that my town game vastly differs from my scum game. In what ways, I don't know, but most people who have played with me a few times find it easy to tell when I'm town. I know that when I'm scum, I have to try

really friggin hard

to emulate that. If the difference was less glaring, it wouldn't be that hard to do. Based on that, I do expect you to see something.

I am not asking you about what you don't like about my case on you. Is that the only thing you think is scummy/smurfy?

[Concrete Angels]

I suppose, what I should have said then, is that I've been trying to see you as town, and having trouble doing that.

That would change the meaning of the sentence, yes.

I know for a fact that my town game vastly differs from my scum game. In what ways, I don't know, but most people who have played with me a few times find it easy to tell when I'm town. I know that when I'm scum, I have to try

really friggin hard

to emulate that. If the difference was less glaring, it wouldn't be that hard to do. Based on that, I do expect you to see something.

Weren't you noting how little experience I have with your town game?
I do recall catching you in our scum game based off a badly made case that I didn't like, however. Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems valid to have issue with you over considering our history, especially if you can't describe what you're certain I should be able to spot - I apparently can't describe it either, so of course it's not affecting me, so...yeah, empty issue.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say to this. You have already noted that there are differences in my play here, which you then decided was scummy, despite the fact that it should indicate otherwise to you.

I am not asking you about what you don't like about my case on you. Is that the only thing you think is scummy/smurfy?

Yes, the scummy issue that I brought up and called scummy is my expressed issue with your slot, you have accurately divined my hidden and obfuscating nature of posting, sorry that took so long - I have a bad habit of presenting reads that way and can't seem to fix it.

*sigh*
I can't even...

[Concrete Angels]

You're both town, obviously.

Did this make anyone else's skin crawl a little?

Yes but not because it's scummy.

[Concrete Angels]

You're both town, obviously.

Did this make anyone else's skin crawl a little?

Post a list of your reads in order with explanations please.

Are you doing anything with this or just making noises?

[Concrete Angels]

Ok.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm here, though will continue to be somewhat out of the loop due to OT at work and midterms/projects due this week/next week.

I do not support the LC wagon. Would prefer pistachi0n.

[Concrete Angels]

^ ETL

[Concrete Angels]

town to null-town:
{davsto, wingback, ankamius, vedith, farside, hecatia}

willing to leave for sorting tomorrow/after flips/night action results:
{massive, thor, LC}

remaining:
{pistachi0n, cataphant, nacho}

[Concrete Angels]

@farside - it's not easy to follow your commentary/thought process with those links, cuz I don't really know what you're talking about and have to keep clicking back and forth. especially on mobile. i'd love a summary of your thoughts and reasons, like, just quick comments. "i think X is town because Y".

[Concrete Angels]

Are you null on the others?

[Concrete Angels]

Hi Thor.

[Concrete Angels]

Who would you lynch besides LC?

How do you feel about Catapants

[Concrete Angels]

Prodge. Still satisfied by Lying Cat lynch, this real vagueness seems to be going nowhere.

I'd prefer not to lynch him today. Tomorrow may be a different story. Where else would you be willing to vote?

[Concrete Angels]

With my role, Hecatia's, and Davsto's, it is very unlikely LC has some sort of "confirmable" role.

Why is that?

And why are you suddenly half-claiming for no good reason? It doesn't help anything. At all. Unless you are some kind of genius regarding Antihero games and how he creates them, and what he intended for this setup, your opinion about whether it makes sense or not is - no offense - worthless.

[Concrete Angels]

Pistach, as I've stated numerous times.

Then vote with me there.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm not fancying a last minute wagon change.

Right, because a flash wagon on LC in the last 24 hours is A-OK.

Wingback - think about why you decided to claim, and consider why I might think it's nonsense.

The reason I'm pushing against the LC wagon is because I'd rather lynch pistachi0n, I want to give LC at least one day to show me something and I don't like how quickly it grew. I don't agree with the cases on the slot really at all. I think they could apply to pretty much any other player here.

p-edit: Wow Thor is saying the same thing I am. Has hell frozen over?

[Concrete Angels]

Ok.

[Concrete Angels]

OK.

[Concrete Angels]

LC may well actually be scum. But I feel nothing about the slot other than I know Jingle, I know RL happens, and I am curious to see what he is talking about. It's not like he's the only mafia if he is; there are two others, AND there's no way I would allow him to live another day if he didn't deliver.

Like, it's not like I completely disagree with the fact that his claim and manner of claiming is scummy as shit and is survivalist as all get out. You'd have to be an idiot not to see that and I'm not an idiot.

But, I've given my reasons for why I want what I want.

p-edit: Ok.

[Concrete Angels]

Making associations before a flip is pretty bad form, Wingback, as is playing your reads like favors.

MS is busy with final exams but we are in communication via fb messenger. You may consider anything I say to have been run through MS, and I'm sure he will make an appearance when he is less busy.

[Concrete Angels]

It is that WHEN he is here, he pursued agendas that benefited scum.

Um... ok. I'll bite. What agendas benefited scum and how do you know?

[Concrete Angels]

UNVOTE: Ank
VOTE: pistachi0n

Yup, I can get behind this. The opinion over Dav and how easy he unvoted said it all to me.

Switch to Lying Cat please. They're scum.

I asked you a question. You've already said you think LC is scum. Repeating it doesn't make it more valid.

[Concrete Angels]

Thor I think he's talking about why he no longer suspects Ankamius (?)

p-edit: I asked you a question here in RL. I'd like you to answer it.

[Concrete Angels]

RL is supposed to say "real time".

[Concrete Angels]

You just made a claim that LC "pursued agendas that benefited scum".

What agendas?
How do you know they benefit scum?

[Concrete Angels]

Like, if you really don't feel like having a real conversation with me, you can quote whatever post you're talking about from your ISO, though I work better with direct interaction.

[Concrete Angels]

Thanks Wingback. Here are my thoughts on this:

Reasons:

1. The bulk of his posting was designed to irritate Thor to apparently get him to "lash out" which Jingle claims will help him read Thor. They've had a prolonged wall war and so far... nothing. They never tried to scumhunt or read anyone besides Thor beyond a single post early in the game. They've spent all their apparently limited time nitpicking Thor's walls.

What do you mean when you say, "So far, nothing"? Do you mean that LC hasn't given a conclusion about their conversation?

What makes you say they haven't scum hunted? What is your idea of scumhunting and why does LC not fit that idea? How do you know they haven't tried to read anyone besides Thor?

Jingle's read on me based on a single post when I was lurking is skin-deep and ignores the bulk of the content I've posted since then.

This point specifically nullifies what you said in the previous point - they have given a read on you. Whether you think it is valid or not is irrelevant. Have you asked LC to quantify or expand on the read or is this just what you think the read is based on?

None of their reads in Post 985 are strong or developed. If they were town, they'd be working on scumhunting and refining those reads instead of arguing pointlessly with Thor. Their only strong reads are based on the claims which is a total cop out.

I think it is problematic to say "If they were town, they'd be doing X" when you may not know exactly how they obtain reads, what their methods are, or why they are doing what they are doing. I don't think that basing a read on claims is a cop out at all, considering the fact that you are doing the same thing, essentially. Claims give information, whether true or not, and allow a person to judge the likelihood of the claim's existence and truthfulness. I also think you are assigning weight to another player's reads, which isn't really your place to do.

Additionally, I haven't spent a lot of time refining my reads for the last week. It's D1. I'm swamped with work and school. Busy with my social life and other crap. I'm not always going to be invested when I post. I'm not always going to be working hard on a forum game. If I were even more distracted, it's likely my posts would look just like LC's.

They's made no attempt to read ETL who they claim is a priority read for them. They've had her as leaning town and that's about it. If they were town, they'd be using some of their time questioning and working with ETL instead of the wall war with Thor.

Not true. Go read any other game we've played together. I am a priority, yes, because there's paranoia there. But clearing that paranoia isn't going to happen on D1. You are mistaking time priority with value priority. Either way, why is this a scum point? You are making judgements on how they should be playing if they were town - that's a meta argument when you have no meta with them.

Their "confirmable role" claim is not a lock in. They can go all the way to LYLO and still have a good reason why they aren't confirmed town. Their vagueness is to try and misdirect the town into believing they are confirmable.[/list]

Except no one is going to be ok with that. He asked for a single day to be able to provide information. If he doesn't, we lynch him tomorrow. Simple as that.

Not to mention, they and Dav and Hecatia are not the only PRs in the game, as you know. Do you honestly think no one else will be curious about them at some point?

My problem with your list, mostly, is that it is based on predetermined criteria that you've come up with based on how you think they should or should not be playing if they were town, when you don't know how they would play if they were town. You haven't shown any concrete "agendas" or explained what scum benefits those agendas would have.

I want to know why the way they've played thus far is helpful to scum and harmful to town.

[Concrete Angels]

@ ETL

,

1. It is apparent that they aren't scumhunting because if they were, they would have asked questions, voted people, accused them and so on to refine their weak reads on all the players.

According to you. Again, you've created an idea about how a person should play. What will you say to me if they flip town?

2. I know they haven't tried to read anyone besides Thor because I have read their ISO. I suggest you do the same.

I've been keeping up. They have focused on Thor a lot, but again, you don't know if Jingle just hasn't been vocal about reads that he does have, or if he actually has no reads.

3. I think their read on me is fake. That's not irrelevant. That's how scumhunting works. If you think someone is faking their reads, you deduce that they are scum. How is the validity of their reads "irrelevant?"

No. That is not what I said at all. What I said was, whether you agree with the read or not is irrelevant. Not whether you think it is fake or not.

4. Where have they developed reads? What reads have they developed? Telling me "you don't know they haven't developed reads" is rubbish because you are assuming that they have reads and asking me to prove they don't instead of starting from a blank slate and reading their ISO to see what reads they've developed.

And

you

are

assuming

they have no reads. I didn't say they had reads. I asked you to support your argument. I'm just pointing that out.

5. Telling me I have "pre-determined criteria" is like asking me not to scumhunt. Based on our experiences, we develop ideas of what town behavior looks like and what scum behavior looks like. Arguing that someone doesn't look like town is basically how mafia is played.

There's a difference between saying "Here is what X did. This is how that action affects town. This is how that action affects scum. This is why I think it is [town/scum]-motivated," and saying "I think Town would do ABC, and X did not do ABC, so therefore they are not town."

p-edit: *sigh*

Cataphant more and more scum here.

[Concrete Angels]

Thor, it's not about nitpicking. Well.. maybe a little. But there's a reason for it. I am trying to get to the truth here, and the only way to do that is evaluate the arguments. Wingback is pushing really hard for this lynch. I wanted to know why, since I don't really care for it. When he answered, I found judgements based on assumptions, and not facts.

So... that's all I'm saying.

[Concrete Angels]

LC hasn't been back since intent was stated, Wingback.

[Concrete Angels]

If this is a townflip, I'm going to be really upset.

You just effectively wiped out my town read on you with this post.

[Concrete Angels]

Wait, hammer was stated and then they gave a "I'm gonna claim vaguely so you don't lynch me but so I'm not nightkilled"? Surely Cat (if town) would see that being nightkilled is always better for town than being lynched?

Yeh, bollocks to it.

VOTE: Lying Cat

I'm disappointed with this.

[Concrete Angels]

I'm disappointed for this whole day tbh.