Micro 533: Restricted Great Idea Mafia (Game over)

[GrayFoxxxx]

VOTE: frog

For being scum in delicious maf

[GrayFoxxxx]

VOTE: frog

For being scum in delicious maf

Awww...why didn't you sheep me

I'm implementing a new no sheeping rule for myself

[GrayFoxxxx]

Leaning town on kop

[GrayFoxxxx]

Why are people voting kop?
Don't have time to post reads tonight, got a late class.
Tommorow should be better.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Christ guys. "Not answering questions".

I haven't been here to even see the questions.

And I've probably posted 2 one liners in my other games.

Lol more tonight.

[GrayFoxxxx]

BTW folks-grayfoxxxx has refused to answer questions for days and has promised content here today. He is posting elsewhere while ignoring this game. He hard townread and buddied Kop and refused to explain why.

This is a wagon that needs to happen.

Refused? I also never promised anything. I'm more than willing to give reads. But don't put words in my mouth.

Hard townread, and buddying on kop.... I think you need to recheck my iso.

[GrayFoxxxx]

ASPs vote is bad.
Ok I have to go, lists tonight.

(See sw, that's more of a promise that you can get butt hurt about)

[GrayFoxxxx]

Oh, maybe I misinterpreted the setup. I read the requirement that "there is at least one scum faction with 2 or more members" and thought that a setup with a scum faction of 2 and a scum faction of 1 is allowable.

But I realize now that if both have to have at least two members then it's very unlikely in terms of probability.

@mod - do any and all scum factions have to have at least 2 members?

Sorry if this is a newbie question

There's nothing to stop scum teams only 1 apart from general standard setups. I agree with whoever it was. There won't be multi in a 9 man setup.

Are you even reading the game and the setup information?

VOTE: Soren
Only one of her 4 posts says anything and it isn't really showing me much.
This is too UTR, safe type of play.

What's UTR? And no, I'm not playing it safe.
What made you pick me as oppose to not mafia and gray? Each of which hasn't really shown anyone much of what they think about the game.
And given that you've fallen onto voting for someone who hasn't posted much, are most of your reads on the others town/null or in other words, no scum reads?

UTR=under the radar and when you add in that your play is safe, that's the basis for a scumread. It's D1 without a lot to go on but that's where I'm at right now. I don't vote for completely null people as a rule unless I think that pressure will bring them into the game.

@Soren-why is it that you didn't like GL's read on me because you thought my questions were easy but were so willing to accept his read on ASP who has only posted 2 posts and is basically reading him as town for doing meta research. Why is meta research more townie to you than asking questions?

More effort is put into it which is town motivated.

So that basically says there could be a

possibility

of being multi ball, but to be honest, I'd rather not speculate on that right this minute, we can leave that for day two once we have actions in, night kills to prove that theory before we can start speculating on that.

Talking about it now, doesn't offer anything and we may end up implicating people for the sake of guess work on setup.

Uuugggh the quoted above by Kop sounds way too much like this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7141971

VOTE: Kop

I question that though. Some things that people say in their scum game are their actual thought process which is non alignment indicative. But just because they said that in their scum game you end up reading them scum for it. Why is this particular thought process scummy?

Really? They appear to be easy questions that doesn't require much effort to me. I agree on your second read though.

I agree that they are easy questions that do not require much effort, but my thinking last night was that they are also questions that are easy to

forget

to ask. They're questions that don't immediately jump out to me as something that needs explanation, but then I read them and think, "yeah, you know, that is something worth pressing on". So my first gut read interpretation

is that lazy scum that's trying to blend in

(and not truly solve the game) would take those posts that she questioned at the surface level and not bother to press for details.

You said you got a town lean from those questions but now you say that you have a lazy scum read on it?

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

I like this.

Not_Mafia

, you say not much is going on in Kop's ISO. What's going on in yours?

Not much

The is the thing about Not_mafia that makes it a displeasure to play with him. He doesn't even try in the game and he acknowledges his lack of effort but doesn't care to change it. However I feel like this play is pretty town. This is speaking from the top of my head, but unless he is onto something, I feel like there is a sense of carelessness in his town games. Like his read in his 88, I see him do that as town before.
= = = = = = = = = =
I feel like Kop's vote on not_mafia is going after an easy target. Not_mafia's play is so sketchy right now that it's so easy to pin him as scum simply based on a lack of town mentality. And I guess I'm slightly biased here too since I'm reading not_mafia as town. I would vote kop but that would put him at L-1 so I'm going to see what his response is first.

It may seem an easy target to you but you are clearly brushing it off as him playing as town. If he has done this in the past, do you believe that he may do the same thing as scum, and ride this all the way to the bank? Because it will be brushed off as his town town play. If he is going to play like that it's anti town and not helping.

Jesus bloody wept.

UNVOTE: Not mafia.



VOTE: Vedith

Reason: too much speculating about setups than actual scum hunting.

This is a good example of why Kop is a town read of mine. He explains his NM vote, then unvotes and continues to scumhunt Vedith. His Vedith vote is also packaged with clear logic.

Kop was less active in our last game when he was scum. He could be aware people would notice this, because there are a few other players from that game here.

The fact is I don't see any of his posts as scummy.

[GrayFoxxxx]

SW is slight town read, but I've never seen her scum game. SW can you link me 1 or 2 of your most recent scum games?

[GrayFoxxxx]

@Kop
Which game are you referring to?

[GrayFoxxxx]

ASP is a slight scum read. The jump on my wagon doesn't look good at all.

[GrayFoxxxx]

@Kop
Which game are you referring to?

Delicious part two.

I'm pretty sure I was scum read for my activity level D1. It's why I was lynched. I'm not seeing how it's that different here.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Frogger and NM are null right now.
I'm not liking frogger but the dispute with Vedith seems genuine. And Vedith is my biggest scum read right now.

[GrayFoxxxx]

So this game, I don't see his early posting as active but I agree, he does seem more on the ball, and actually questioning.

So with Gray - He is giving reason 121 to why Kop is town.
However, his read on Kop was 57

He's just using a later comment to justify his read.

His early activity level gave me a slight town read.

I'm looking at his more relevant post and now he is a hard town read.

I think you understood what I said. Scum Vedith would try to frame it like you did.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm always your biggest scum read Gray.

Low example pool. 2 maybe 3 games?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Guilty lion is right behind SW on my town read list. Scum would more often try to jump on an easy wagon.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm always your biggest scum read Gray.

Low example pool. 2 maybe 3 games?

Out of what, 4 games? XD
So 75%.

So your saying this is why your aren't scum?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Soren is null town.

I'm not used to seeing Soren post so eloquently, but I like it.

Town
Kop
SW
GL
Soren
NM
Frogg
ASP
Vedith
Scum

[GrayFoxxxx]

Not at all, I'm just pointing out how often you are wrong.
In fact, the time you didn't think I was scum I was scum.
Don't try to meta me basically.

Ok I wont

[GrayFoxxxx]

Oh yeah.
VOTE: vedith

[GrayFoxxxx]

Frogger and NM are null right now.
I'm not liking frogger but the dispute with Vedith seems genuine. And Vedith is my biggest scum read right now.

explain why you aren't "liking" me

Kop looks like frustrated town to me. I'm really starting to dislike all the defense of NM this game.

Don't like kop buckling to the slightlest bit of pressure, looks like he just wants to go with the flow/least contraversial target at any given juncture

I'm not so sure.

I can see both perspectives but speaking from personal experience, I actually think it's more towny than scummy because that's how I react.

I'll often buckle under pressure, and my reads will be all over the place as town. As scum, I drive my mislynch through (see Ducky in BEES or goodmorning in refraction, although I did think GM was scum, I knew I wasn't lynching my faction in that which is all I cared about).

UNVOTE:

VOTE: vedith

Vote parking an RVS and not scumhunting, then being called out for it and being like "oh wait, I will scumhunt soon!" (paraphrasing).

ASP also pings me for one particular thing I don't want to divulge at this second to see how it plays out, but I don't think vedith and ASP are scum together for their interaction in 92, and ASP has at least pushed GL whereas vedith hasn't at all.

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

I bolded the part that disagrees with that.

You give an excuse for sporadic voting by saying you do it as town. I don't see that style of voting as town. And again, that was your exact style as scum in my last game with you.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm not sold you are scum though.

The arguement with Vedith doesn't look fake, or like distancing. But I'm thinking your argument is TvS.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Your ASP vote is an example.

[GrayFoxxxx]

You didn't really explain it. But it's not a big tell to me. He is lurking.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Every other vote or unvote you gave an explanation.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Now you are willing to take a vote off of ASP and change your vote once again, for nothing more than OMGUS.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I called you out for confusing the town in that game too. No one seemed to care then.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Ok frogger I'm not convinced you are scum, so i'm not interested in arguing that you are.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Intent to vote/hammer gray.

Not sure if L-1 or L-2

I will wait for gray to answer my questions before voting.

Town!gray is so much more active, but also so much more combative. He seems passive and less reckless here.

Frogg I didn't post alot D1 in our last game. It's why I was lynched.

Your assessment is way off.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Town!gray is so much more active, but also so much more combative. He seems passive and less reckless here.

VOTE: grayfoxxx

NM why are you sheeping frog?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Have you checked to see if that was correct?

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm guessing you are hard town reading frogger?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Looking at my wagon I think there could be 2 scum between NM,Vedith,and ASP.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm guessing you are hard town reading frogger?

No he just made a compelling argument

Again, did you try to fact check that?

No you didnt. If you had, you could see frogger is incorrect.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Frogg I didn't post alot D1 in our last game. It's why I was lynched.

Your assessment is way off.

Dude. Maybe I misread, but you and TSO went back and forth.

About what exactly?

He said was I scum for low activity. I argued that wasn't alignment indicative.

Turns out he was scum trying to mislynch me.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Is this D1 over?

[GrayFoxxxx]

^@250

[GrayFoxxxx]

He said was I scum for low activity. I argued that wasn't alignment indicative.

I guess. I didn't really pay attention D1 because you were pretty obvtown there.

Notice I didn't push you at all that game when you were town. The reason...I felt you were active. If I thought you were werewolf I probs would have pushed since I was mafia. I am not feeling town you now.

You felt I was active...
But I wasnt. It's why I was lynched what don't you get?

[GrayFoxxxx]

He said was I scum for low activity. I argued that wasn't alignment indicative.

I guess. I didn't really pay attention D1 because you were pretty obvtown there.

Notice I didn't push you at all that game when you were town. The reason...I felt you were active. If I thought you were werewolf I probs would have pushed since I was mafia. I am not feeling town you now.

You felt I was active...
But I wasnt. It's why I was lynched what don't you get?

What don't YOU get?

I said you were active and I could tell you were town so I didn't pay complete attention to you. I just knew you were active town.

I don't get how you say I was active, when I was lynched for being inactive.

[GrayFoxxxx]

He said was I scum for low activity. I argued that wasn't alignment indicative.

I guess. I didn't really pay attention D1 because you were pretty obvtown there.

Notice I didn't push you at all that game when you were town. The reason...I felt you were active. If I thought you were werewolf I probs would have pushed since I was mafia. I am not feeling town you now.

You felt I was active...
But I wasnt. It's why I was lynched what don't you get?

What don't YOU get?

I said you were active and I could tell you were town so I didn't pay complete attention to you. I just knew you were active town.

I don't get how you say I was active, when I was lynched for being inactive.

The point he is making, was that you were active, but actively scum hunting. This game, you aren't as active, and more ducking and diving, and a lot less scum hunting up until your wagon started.

I can see a difference in your game, and I'm sure others who played with you in that game, also can notice that.

Does that make the point clearer for you?

I was making a decision to be inactive that game. If you remember I expressed that thoroughly.

This game ive had rl things prevent me from really playing up until today.

All I did was bicker with scumtso D1 when I did post that game I didn't really get a chance to scumhunt anyone else.

[GrayFoxxxx]

The fact that I haevn't noticed gray at all has me concerned. I've only played with town gray, and he was super involved both times.

I've played with town gray twice. The Delicious game you are talking about, we both played with him. He was being scumread for barely posting at all, then sheep voting and naked voted people, he claimed VT way too early and was bascially scummy for most of D1 until he got wagoned. When he did start giving content, he was very involved but by then he was being hard pushed by scum, everyone had been arguing way too much, and he was a compromise lynch. So he didn't really get involved until heavily pressured.

The last game I just got out of with him, he pulled the same thing as here, promising content and not delivering, getting snippy with me when I voted and pushed him over it, etc.
The only reason I backed off him was because I was the cop in that game and after one scum flipped and I outed the other with a guilty, I was able to figure out through voting patterns and associative tells that he wasn't scum.

IOW, he doesn't effort much as town and can be a bit of a VI but I will admit that he really put a ton of effort into Delicious when he was wagoned and close to a lynch.

I have no scum meta on him.

@grayfoxxxx-do you have any scum games on this site and can you link one if so?

I think I had 2 games going as scum when I site flaked. It's been about a year. I can look for them, ide like yours too

[GrayFoxxxx]

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

This is not true. Fro99er did not throw his vote around in that game as scum. He was kind of lurky in the beginning and voting people for weak reasons and I did not see too many vote switches like he's doing this game. Later, he was a lot more active and after his rough start, I was townreading him most of the game until I got killed by his scumteam.

So why the blatantly false meta read that I can easily refute?

I can show you where I called him on it. You don't have to agree but it's what I believed. Turns out I was right.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I caught TSO in a scum lie and no one wanted to see it. Nothing like that has happened here for me to be aggressive about.

[GrayFoxxxx]

And again, I was making a decision to be inactive in that game. Not the case this game.

I can't really say much else about that. I'm sorry if I'm not being combative, I guess?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

This is not true. Fro99er did not throw his vote around in that game as scum. He was kind of lurky in the beginning and voting people for weak reasons and I did not see too many vote switches like he's doing this game. Later, he was a lot more active and after his rough start, I was townreading him most of the game until I got killed by his scumteam.

So why the blatantly false meta read that I can easily refute?

I can show you where I called him on it. You don't have to agree but it's what I believed. Turns out I was right.

Sure, also have you played with Not_Mafia before? If so, can you link it?

I think I'm in a game with him now. Not sure if I've played with him before. I dont think som

[GrayFoxxxx]

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

This is not true. Fro99er did not throw his vote around in that game as scum. He was kind of lurky in the beginning and voting people for weak reasons and I did not see too many vote switches like he's doing this game. Later, he was a lot more active and after his rough start, I was townreading him most of the game until I got killed by his scumteam.

So why the blatantly false meta read that I can easily refute?

Ok this is blatantly false

Frogger changed votes 7 times D1... my point stands that she was throwing her vote around. It's not as much yet today, and this why it's not a solid scum read for me

[GrayFoxxxx]

OK, Don't link that or talk about it. I'll check myself.

On mobile too lazy to link directly, but fogger makes her 6th or 7th vote change at post #1386.

I called her on it post #1388

[GrayFoxxxx]

Robbery at the casino, and NY 178 are the 2 scum games where I site flaked.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Yeah, I don't have much experience with him but I don't like the lurking, the fact that so many are giving him easy townreads and defending him and the L-1 on grayfoxxxx at first because he was sheeping your reasons without checking to see if they were accurate or not. Later, when he said he had the same experience with grayfoxxxx makes me feel better about that vote.

I could be wrong but I don't think I've played with NM before. Aside from one current game. So idk what he means...kinda wierd

[GrayFoxxxx]

Ok I guess I have whichosen game is it

[GrayFoxxxx]

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

This is not true. Fro99er did not throw his vote around in that game as scum. He was kind of lurky in the beginning and voting people for weak reasons and I did not see too many vote switches like he's doing this game. Later, he was a lot more active and after his rough start, I was townreading him most of the game until I got killed by his scumteam.

So why the blatantly false meta read that I can easily refute?

Ok this is blatantly false

Frogger changed votes 7 times D1... my point stands that she was throwing her vote around. It's not as much yet today, and this why it's not a solid scum read for me

Was he changing it on a whim like he's been doing here or was he explaining himself more? Is vote switching like that town or scum to you?

Also, checked the game you are in with NM and I feel better about his vote on you now. I can't elaborate on it though.

pedit: OK will look at those games as well.

In that case it was scummy. So I'm inclined to believe he would be scummy about it now. But then him saying his reads are all over the place as town bothers me. Meh idk yet.

[GrayFoxxxx]

You feel better about a read of his in a current game? I'm confused sorry if I'm missing something. ..

[GrayFoxxxx]

I don't get how you can feel good about him metaing me about a game that isn't even done...

[GrayFoxxxx]

Actually it's really bad of NM to say that

[GrayFoxxxx]

I just don't know how he can townread me in a game I'm still involved in. That's all. Anyone could look on there own since it can't be discussed. I'm done talking about that

[GrayFoxxxx]

Their

[GrayFoxxxx]

Bottom line I'm not sure NM is being real with his reads.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Holy crap, I am dense. The game is unfinished. There's no way he could say what he did about you unless he has another game where you were town and played that way.

But you said-

I can't discuss but I did look at the game you guys are currently in and that makes me feel better about it now.

I'm not townreading NM like so many are but I don't mind the vote with this additional info. at hand.

I don't understand

[GrayFoxxxx]

Ok I'll take your word for now.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm just a little bothered that you didn't take that into account before I pointed it out...

[GrayFoxxxx]

I don't think it makes NM auto scum this game. It's pretty damning though, when tied with a number of other reasons-lurking, ignorant sheeping.

Can anyone else give their experience with townNM?

[GrayFoxxxx]

OK, Don't link that or talk about it. I'll check myself.

On mobile too lazy to link directly, but fogger makes her 6th or 7th vote change at post #1386.

I called her on it post #1388

This is the first time I've ever been called a she

My apologies

[GrayFoxxxx]

So after everyone starts to meta Gray for his style of play, he suddenly changes it.
If he's not obvious scum I don't know what is.

Lol.
If having rl stuff going on is a style of play, you are on some next level shit.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Ah, so your RL stuff cleared as soon as everyone started to meta you and say how this isn't your play.
Get out of town!

How can I get metad on rl...

[GrayFoxxxx]

I already commented on that, that it looked like frustrated town and he explained he's not going to keep his vote on someone if he doesn't have support for the lynch. Considering how much Fro99er has jumped around and has pretty much naked voted ASP at this point, and he's someone I'm reading as town, I don't really have an issue with this.

I just don't see how you can pin that as frustrated town. But I guess we just have a difference in opinion.

What did you think of kop's vote on not mafia and then changing it as soon as I called him out on it?

I made a post explaining my reasoning, but I want to elaborate on one point and I want your view of it. I have browsed some of Not Mafias games, not in great detail but just to look at how he approaches it. And in those few games that I looked at, he entered them in a different manner to this game in particular, he starts of with Random votes, but never a role claim from the bounce. Now looking over things, you said there is something to learn from his claim, what have you learnt so far?

What I have learnt is stated in my 82 I'm not going to say more unless I feel like there is a need to.

Why are more people not putting pressure on Gray? He just keeps trying to duck out of the lime light. He's had simple questions which can be answered at least briefly but each time gives a comment that isn't relevant than has to go.

Hold up, why are you getting other people to do that for you? If there is a concern

you have

, you go instigate it yourself. I don't see townie mindset from this post.

I'm always your biggest scum read Gray.

What does taunting do to help your case?

Soren is null town.

What is null town? You can't have one with the other. It's either null or town.

@Fro99er

, What do you think we can achieve from a Fox lynch?

@GL and Soren

, how do you feel about the Fox wagon?

I've seen gray time and time again. I know how his playstyle and I can see why people wants to lynch him for it. I feel like gray is an unspoken policy lynch. The wagon itself is justified, the only person I don't like are vedith, getting other people to question gray for him and not mafia being a sheep.

I'm going to visit Vedith.

Why on Earth would you say something like this?

This.
I'm at odds with this now. Like I can see how scum can easily say this. But would a scum want to attract attention? But then why would a town want to proclaim such thing and risk getting killed in the night?
== = = = = = =
Getting town leans on SilverWolf for looking at past games to get meta.
Kop is slowly shifting from my scum read. Any reason why you didn't respond to 270 ?
Vedith is looking bad to me right now for reasons stated above.

VOTE: Vedith

I'm saying you are my weakest town read.

I'm surprised at Soren's read, he seems to scum read me every other game.

Actually rereading he didn't say either way.

[GrayFoxxxx]

NM, Vedith, ASP-that's where I'm at right now for scumreads.

This is where I'm at before catching up. I see some stuff from ASP that I need to go through.

Sorry for my lack of activity...I'm always V/LA on Sunday's during NFL season. Will catch up in full after work.

Pls don't be a pats fan. Pls don't be a pats fan

[GrayFoxxxx]

Is it not an instance for you to ask for somoene to roleclaim or do it yourself, if your one vote away from being lynched? Or are you more happy for someone to keep there roles to themselves, and just be allowed to be lynched?

Usually I figure the person who declares intent asks for the claim. What pinged me about the way that you did it was that 254 is asking for a claim without declaring intent to hammer.

And also can I point out GL, I didn't say at all in this game, that he would be a good lynch. Could you point that out to me where I said that?

Sure:

If I had to lynch, it would be in this order 1) Vedit

2)Fox

3) NM

Is your top 2 scumread not a good lynch? And what do you think of this Not_Mafia wagon?

Pls don't be a pats fan. Pls don't be a pats fan

Pats had a bye this week, so it's unlikely, right? Fingers crossed!

~Ravens fan

Your right. My hate for the pats clouded my thoughts for a minute.
Ravens are my team too. How about dat OT. Dat kicker. Dat satisfaction.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Youre

[GrayFoxxxx]

GL is now my favorite player. (Behind thor]

[GrayFoxxxx]

UNVOTE:

[GrayFoxxxx]

VOTE: not mafia

His read on me is a lie.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I feel like we are kind of stagnated here right now and should come together on a lynch candidate. A flip will really help this game I think.

I'm willing to compromise from grayfoxxxx to ASP or NM.

Let's talk about this some. Inactivity is not going to help anything.

Why

[GrayFoxxxx]

@ASP
Yes

[GrayFoxxxx]

I feel like we are kind of stagnated here right now and should come together on a lynch candidate. A flip will really help this game I think.

I'm willing to compromise from grayfoxxxx to ASP or NM.

Let's talk about this some. Inactivity is not going to help anything.

Why

The fact I have to work to get you to do this, should explain why I'm leaning scum on you now plus if Vedith is town, your spot on his wagon didn't look good either.

Why are you still thinking I'm scum?

Can you share your thinking on frogger?

What about ASPs catch up post?

What do you think of NM not acknowledging his false read on me?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Soren has the weakest reason for voting me.

Because 1 - I wanted more votes on Gray and 2 - Because I stated a point with Gray always calling me scum.

*claps for Soren*

I think that deserved a standing ovation.
It's not a weak reason by the way. But anyways, we just have a difference of opinions on this.

Yeah this is so active.

L1 without claiming SW? Scummy move...

I'm the 1 shot vig... Great job on letting scum lead you...

Hmmm... Well I guess this deserves an unvote until otherwise.
VOTE: unovte
Could still be lieing.
= = = = = =
Now I am unsure who to vote for, no one is alarming scum to me. I have these people as town:
Fro99er
GuiltyLion
Vedith (until otherwise)
Not_Mafia (sort of, but his anti town play and lack of care makes me want to lynch him, such a shame that I see that as his town play)

Null:
GrayFoxxxx - always hard to read him because of his confrontational play, which makes me think he is scum. But then realise that it's his town play, as seen in a recent game that ended.
A Simple Plan - hasnt seen enough of him to comment, but i like that he's posting now
Kop - went from scumish to nullish.
SilverWolf - null

@381 you're right, i wouldn't mind lynching someone from my null list right now.

Soren, have I been confrontational this game? If I have, show me.

SW has posted plenty to read from. Why just "null"?

And why is NM a town read, but you want to lynch him?

[GrayFoxxxx]

I don't really have much time tonight, I'll try to post something more substantive tomorrow. This game is weird, very little content/activity but then these fast wagons spring up out of nowhere. I'm really not a fan of NM being at L-1, I'd much prefer an ASP lynch if we're going to lynch a lurker since ASP has provided basically nothing with his lurking whereas Not_Mafia has made several good pushes/points.

Scumreads outside of Kop - mainly ASP (catchup didn't do it for me), then probably Grayfoxxx - I originally thought the case on him was weak and so I figured he was probably town, since people were quick to want to lynch him. But now rereading his ISO I do agree with the mantra that he's been defending himself but not really looking at things much elsewhere, and he seems happy to be pushing the easy lynches. So since this NM wagon has Kop and Grayfoxxx on it, I'm not really inclined to support it. I would like to emphasize that Kop is still far and away my biggest scumread and I will try to write up my points against him tomorrow. The only "town" thing he's done is repeatedly softed which I find extremely annoying because it's just WIFOM about his alignment and anti-town at best.

I thought I liked where Soren was at for most of the day but I agree 393 was extremely weak. That said, Soren's reads are mostly the same as mine, which usually means that person is also town.

If I've been defending alot, it's because I've been getting pressure. I think it's more scummy to ignore scum cases against yourself. Kinda like what NM is doing.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I really don't think NM will be scum, for reasons posted earlier.
How is Gray getting such an easy ride? There's a reason that his lynch isn't moving...

Because I'm town

[GrayFoxxxx]

I really don't think NM will be scum, for reasons posted earlier.
How is Gray getting such an easy ride? There's a reason that his lynch isn't moving...

do something besides pushing my lynch. Or atleast give me something to respond to.


"Gray is scum lynch him". That's some Shakespearian shit.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm not familiar with set up. Is having a tracker, vig, and cop (I'm guessing that's what Kop is) normal?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Yeah I'm growing more and more unhappy with this NM wagon, especially since he claimed tracker. Why don't we lynch ASP, NM can track Kop, and Vedith can shoot Grayfox? (since I'm sure he's going to do that regardless of whatever we do today)

Kop is claiming cop (I think). Why push him, if you're unhappy with people pushing NM?

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm not familiar with set up. Is having a tracker, vig, and cop (I'm guessing that's what Kop is) normal?

Ok reading the wiki, balance is not guaranteed.

I'm ok with a no lynch.

Vedith I urge you to not shoot me tonight. It isn't a good move for you.

Looking at GLs latest posts, I'm not sure of his motivation. He sure is trying to guide the town in a certain direction.

His eagerness to acknowledge NMs claim, and really nothing else about him is a little off putting.

Whats the thought process behind that?

I can understand the caution on scum reading NM, but GLs Kop explanation was a little counter intuitive.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Kop has had plenty of suspicion.

No one is asking you to defend NM. Just acknowledge his play, the same way you seem to be acknowledging other things.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I can understand the self meta dislike to an extent.
Scum can easily self meta.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Fox, why didn't you support the ASP wagon at the time it was a thing?

He definitely scummy, but I feel better about my top pick right now.
I'm starting to really think a No-lynch would be the safest bet for today though.

NVm, I thought it had more than my vote

Which should say something itself.

ASP has done next to nothing and there is very little support for lynching ASP

I'm ok with an ASP lynch, if no lynch isnt an option.

I can understand the self meta dislike to an extent.
Scum can easily self meta.

And what about my other point that ASP and Vedith aren't likely on the same team.

What about it?
What about my NM read?

Fox or ASP need to go. Today.

Not a no-lynch

Why Fox?

Why not a no lynch?

[GrayFoxxxx]

He's*

[GrayFoxxxx]

Sheeping and agreeing aren't the same.

Why are you jumping around with your questions?

[GrayFoxxxx]

And what about my other point that ASP and Vedith aren't likely on the same team.

What about it?
What about my NM read?

That's not how this works.

You don't get to answer my question with two questions.

Why not?
Can't I get clarification?

[GrayFoxxxx]

Wth?

[GrayFoxxxx]

I can understand GL's Kop read. I dont see it the same way he does, but I can follow his logic here.

However, the NM read is a bit different. GL kind of glossed over a few things that NM has done.

Im not sure if its just GL really trusting NM's claim, thats causing him look over his anti town play.

GL is pretty null for me now.

GL, whats your read on frogg?

@SW
What made you change your mind?

[GrayFoxxxx]

@SW
What made you change your mind?

It seems to be the general consensus that we should lynch today and I can see the point since it's D1 with almost no info. otherwise.

I still think no lynch is the safer option here.

[GrayFoxxxx]

What if mislynch?

[GrayFoxxxx]

I do kind of wonder why grayfoxxxx doesn't want to lynch today outside of sheeping my reasons?

Your reasons aren't so profound that I can only sheep them.

Don't give your self so much credit.

[GrayFoxxxx]

And if he wants a no lynch why does he have a vote on his NM vanity wagon?

I've made this clear.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I'm not liking froggers posts.
Has almost voted everyone that's in the game.
Just asked a few empty questions.
Spent some time describing his town meta, and my town meta.
Everything else is finger pointing.
Null on frogger and GL.
NM and ASP are scum picks right now.
Is soren in this game?
Kop is still a town read.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Vedith is town I guess until proven otherwise

[GrayFoxxxx]

VOTE: asp
L-1

I'm ok with this. I can see No lynch won't happen.

[GrayFoxxxx]

SW is town