Micro 533: Restricted Great Idea Mafia (Game over)

[SilverWolf]

Wolfie, I know you can sheep me for that!

Hellz yeah I can!!

VOTE: Kop

If he lurks, he's scum.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I have learned not to really pay too much attention to RVS claims. I've seen people claim town, claim scum, claim various roles, claim VT, etc. so I decided to just let it go for now.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Kop for defeating me in delicious mafia

Awww Fro99er.

Are you scum this time round?

What's your comment on me sheeping this?

[SilverWolf]

Kop-do you ever vote in RVS? Can you link me to a game you did if so?

This is looking like your scumplay so far.

[SilverWolf]

Is that RVS or is there a reason for it?

[SilverWolf]

Wolfie - I'm not sure how you were able to so quickly conclude this is Kop's scum game. I'm not pinged by anything of his yet. Why do you say this reminds you of his scum game?

It's just a gut feel. Not real strong yet. I'm just poking and prodding and seeing what I can find since I know his town and scum game fairly well.

JFC-Now I know why hydra slips are so common. LOL

This is me.

[SilverWolf]

I was testing out a hydra on another page and forgot to log into my account before posting.

It should be easy enough to figure out that's me and what I was responding to.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

[SilverWolf]

I was testing out a hydra on another page and forgot to log into my account before posting.

It should be easy enough to figure out that's me and what I was responding to.

So you got two accounts? What is it all in aid of?

Nope, the hydra account is not relevant to this game. I'll explain later if you want to know about it but not important.

You seem kind of town.

I'd like others besides you, Fro99er and myself to post more.

[SilverWolf]

Why Soren Kop?

[SilverWolf]

I was testing out a hydra on another page and forgot to log into my account before posting.

It should be easy enough to figure out that's me and what I was responding to.

So you got two accounts? What is it all in aid of?

Nope, the hydra account is not relevant to this game. I'll explain later if you want to know about it but not important.

You seem kind of town.

I'd like others besides you, Fro99er and myself to post more.

Who have you participated with in this game other than me, Fro99er and Fox?

I don't understand this ques. or the point of it?

[SilverWolf]

I was testing out a hydra on another page and forgot to log into my account before posting.

It should be easy enough to figure out that's me and what I was responding to.

So you got two accounts? What is it all in aid of?

Nope, the hydra account is not relevant to this game. I'll explain later if you want to know about it but not important.

You seem kind of town.

I'd like others besides you, Fro99er and myself to post more.

Who have you participated with in this game other than me, Fro99er and Fox?

I don't understand this ques. or the point of it?

Have you played with any of the other players other than the ones I have mentioned.

Nope, Just you 3.

[SilverWolf]

@Soren-My read on Kop is not weird if you understand that I know him very well. In the town game we played together we were Masons and shared a PT all game with daytalk. In the last game we played, he was scum and neighborized me. So I think that gives me some ability to determine his alignment earlier that other people would be able to.

I thought he was looking like scum in the beginning because his answers were more theory type things and not saying much which is characteristic of how he acts as scum.

I changed it to town when he started questioning me and trying to get the conversation going and since then it has strengthened somewhat because it appears that he is engaged in the game and scumhunting which is much more like how he is as town and also how any townie should be behaving overall.

[SilverWolf]

But this just ignores it entirely and disregards it as noise in the background. I think there is some thing to be learnt behind not_mafia's claim, especially how he plays it off as he didn't claim at all. My theory is he is trying to get attention to himself, for what reason I am unsure.

Theory right or wrong, this is a pretty town post.

How is this a town post?

[SilverWolf]

Leaning town on kop

Because?

[SilverWolf]

Kop is trying his damnedest to get us out of RVS, do you all think that is more likely to come from scum or town?

I null read this. I used to townread people off of it because it's protown to try to get us out of RVS and get the game going and scummy to try to keep us in RVS. However, scum have done this in many a game I've played for towncred so my answer to this, is both.

[SilverWolf]

I would be extremely surprised if a 9 player game was multiball. I don't think I've ever seen that before.

I do like that ASP took the time to meta me before giving a read. While scum can do that, I think that level of trying to figure someone else out is more town motivated than not. I need to see a lot more but I like that one post so far.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Soren

Only one of her 4 posts says anything and it isn't really showing me much.

This is too UTR, safe type of play.

[SilverWolf]

It kind of bothers me that a few people are giving NM a pass and calling him town for his play. He strikes me as one of those players that naked votes, doesn't say much, and has to be prodded. I absolutely can't stand playing with people like that because they are unreadable. I have no idea why anyone is calling him town. I have him at completely null and that's where he stays until he posts some content. I got scolded by Soren for thinking Kop was acting more like his town self due to meta but for some reason NM would not be able to emulate this as scum and must be town.

@NM-Why Kop?

Also, null on grayfoxxxx. I know from playing with him in the past that he's slow to get started as town but I'd like him to come in here and answer my question and explain his townread on Kop.

@grayfoxxxx-Why is Kop town to you?

Vedith is also null but I think I read somewhere that he's more active and involved as scum.

@Fro99er-Why are Soren's posts town to you?

[SilverWolf]

Why Soren Kop?

I chose a name that stood out from that vote count in hope to get something going. It had been almost 6 hours and nobody made a post. I'm trying to engage some discussion.

Is this still the reason you are voting for Soren or is there something else?

[SilverWolf]

Ok, I see now. What about the possibility of him manipulating his meta? Because I've town or scum read someone in the past based on my previous experience on them pretty early in the game, but in the end I found that I'm wrong. Which meant that I either didn't have a clear idea of their town/scum game, or they manipulated their meta/changed their play.

Yep, and this is something I'm going to be watchful for. Meta is a tool I use and usually just recent meta and even better if I've actually been in a game with someone but I never use it all by itself. I'm not inclined to think he's scum right now but I will be keeping an eye on him to make sure.

VOTE: Soren
Only one of her 4 posts says anything and it isn't really showing me much.
This is too UTR, safe type of play.

What's UTR? And no, I'm not playing it safe.
What made you pick me as oppose to not mafia and gray? Each of which hasn't really shown anyone much of what they think about the game.
And given that you've fallen onto voting for someone who hasn't posted much, are most of your reads on the others town/null or in other words, no scum reads?

UTR=under the radar and when you add in that your play is safe, that's the basis for a scumread. It's D1 without a lot to go on but that's where I'm at right now. I don't vote for completely null people as a rule unless I think that pressure will bring them into the game.

@Soren-why is it that you didn't like GL's read on me because you thought my questions were easy but were so willing to accept his read on ASP who has only posted 2 posts and is basically reading him as town for doing meta research. Why is meta research more townie to you than asking questions?

[SilverWolf]

Leaning town on kop

Because?

grayfoxxxx-I asked you this two days ago.

[SilverWolf]

Vedith is also null but I think I read somewhere that he's more active and involved as scum.

I only have 1 scum game.
People try to meta me for me being active or not - that's null.

Self-meta isn't exactly a good strategy. I typically read it as a scummy tactic. I do want to know where Silver is getting that quoted info though.

I read it in an ongoing game I was asked to replace into. I can't say further at this time.

[SilverWolf]

Like why would you disregard the possibility of multiball when the mod listed three factions in the intro posts and the setup of restricted great idea mafia uses the mafia/alien deck?

Because I have never seen multiball in a 9 player game, exactly like I said. I have never played this set up before.

And then ASP went at length to explain it could be multiball and Wolfie doesn't comment on that?

What do you want me to say? Once he clarified it and the mod clarified it, I understood what was going on. There is no further reason for me to comment on it.

[SilverWolf]

Kop looks like frustrated town to me. I'm really starting to dislike all the defense of NM this game.

[SilverWolf]

I expect substantive input from you tomorrow then. I'd rather you not pull the same thing you did in your last two games :/

[SilverWolf]

I feel like there's a lot in this game I'm missing in the form of hidden meaning that would prob be anti town of me to discuss but it makes it hard to get reads and make pushes.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: vedith

Vote parking an RVS and not scumhunting, then being called out for it and being like "oh wait, I will scumhunt soon!" (paraphrasing).

ASP also pings me for one particular thing I don't want to divulge at this second to see how it plays out, but I don't think vedith and ASP are scum together for their interaction in 92, and ASP has at least pushed GL whereas vedith hasn't at all.

I think that you mis understood my comment.
But that's neither here nor there.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: A Simple Plan

I am literally confused as fuck this game and this is just one thing that I don't get and feel like I can't ask about:/

I think GL and Fro99er are both town.

Who the hell knows about anyone else because Soren keeps hinting that NM is a bad lynch, Fro99er and ASP kind of hint at that as well and I think GL too. Then there's the above mess which is just all kinds of WTF to me. Then there's all these people calling Soren town off of really insignificant posts and then there's this really, really unusual townread and defense of Kop from grayfoxxxx who has literally given no other input.

You know what. That last part is scummy as fuck and looks like buddying.

VOTE: grayfoxxxx

[SilverWolf]

Hmmmm, Kop still doesn't look like scum to me. I feel like some people are reaching to paint him as scum though.

[SilverWolf]

Gray needs more votes.

[SilverWolf]

What don't you like about Fro99er?

[SilverWolf]

I would like an explanation from him for that.

[SilverWolf]

BTW folks-grayfoxxxx has refused to answer questions for days and has promised content here today. He is posting elsewhere while ignoring this game. He hard townread and buddied Kop and refused to explain why.

This is a wagon that needs to happen.

[SilverWolf]

ASPs vote is bad.
Ok I have to go, lists tonight.

(See sw, that's more of a promise that you can get butt hurt about)

You are the one getting butthurt about being called out on being worthless. You want that to stop, then do something, then I'll stop.

----------------------------------

Can someone lay out a Kop is scum case cuz I still don't see it?

----------------------------------

ASP's sheep vote is sketchy. I need to hear more from him as well.

[SilverWolf]

Could people who aren't gonna play the game just replace out?

TIA

[SilverWolf]

I already commented on that, that it looked like frustrated town and he explained he's not going to keep his vote on someone if he doesn't have support for the lynch. Considering how much Fro99er has jumped around and has pretty much naked voted ASP at this point, and he's someone I'm reading as town, I don't really have an issue with this.

I do want to hear more from ASP and others who have barely posted but I think I'm probably just going to be frustrated trying to get anything from a couple people so I'm AFK until I have a reason to post more here. I'm also fine keeping my vote on grayfoxxxx.

[SilverWolf]

No one hammer until I get a chance to get back on later and respond. Thanks!!

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

I asked you guys to wait. Give me time to get back to the game and comment. I'm starting to think NM is scum.

[SilverWolf]

I'm going to visit Vedith.

Why on Earth would you say something like this?

Catching up now.

[SilverWolf]

re 150: alright, I can sheep that.

VOTE: Gray

Will post something substantial tomorrow.

This was on Thurs. Can you please do this? I would like to hear more from you.

pedit: Or we can lynch him? He doesn't look town to me from what I've read so far.

[SilverWolf]

The fact that I haevn't noticed gray at all has me concerned. I've only played with town gray, and he was super involved both times.

I've played with town gray twice. The Delicious game you are talking about, we both played with him. He was being scumread for barely posting at all, then sheep voting and naked voted people, he claimed VT way too early and was bascially scummy for most of D1 until he got wagoned. When he did start giving content, he was very involved but by then he was being hard pushed by scum, everyone had been arguing way too much, and he was a compromise lynch. So he didn't really get involved until heavily pressured.

The last game I just got out of with him, he pulled the same thing as here, promising content and not delivering, getting snippy with me when I voted and pushed him over it, etc.
The only reason I backed off him was because I was the cop in that game and after one scum flipped and I outed the other with a guilty, I was able to figure out through voting patterns and associative tells that he wasn't scum.

IOW, he doesn't effort much as town and can be a bit of a VI but I will admit that he really put a ton of effort into Delicious when he was wagoned and close to a lynch.

I have no scum meta on him.

@grayfoxxxx-do you have any scum games on this site and can you link one if so?

[SilverWolf]

@Wolf, how do you feel about Vedith?

Not sure, he appears to be actively scumhunting but his style is more to poke at people for reactions which kind of looks town. I know I do that as town. I would see it as scummy if he was instigating crap with people and there's a fine line there that I don't think he has crossed at this point.

I'm still trying to figure out ASP, Soren, gray, and NM as of right now because they all bug me for various reasons but I haven't read gray's recent input yet.

I have a pretty good townread going on Kop, Fro99er, Guilty Lion at this point.

[SilverWolf]

SW is slight town read, but I've never seen her scum game. SW can you link me 1 or 2 of your most recent scum games?

Sure. These are my last two. I have several others and if you want them, I can link them for you. Just let me know.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=63066

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61824

[SilverWolf]

Not at all, I'm just pointing out how often you are wrong.
In fact, the time you didn't think I was scum I was scum.
Don't try to meta me basically.

Why are you discouraging people from meta diving you?

[SilverWolf]

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

This is not true. Fro99er did not throw his vote around in that game as scum. He was kind of lurky in the beginning and voting people for weak reasons and I did not see too many vote switches like he's doing this game. Later, he was a lot more active and after his rough start, I was townreading him most of the game until I got killed by his scumteam.

So why the blatantly false meta read that I can easily refute?

[SilverWolf]

Because

Town!gray is so much more active, but also so much more combative. He seems passive and less reckless here.

This is bad because town would of made sure that was correct by checking the game.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

I asked you guys to wait. Give me time to get back to the game and comment. I'm starting to think NM is scum.

Nobody hammered, in either case, what would be the point of unvoting?

Because I hadn't read his recent content at that point, I have dealt with far too many lolhammers and self votes in games, so I'm very wary of the possibility of that and my unvote prevents it until I can post.

[SilverWolf]

IOW, he doesn't effort much as town and can be a bit of a VI but I will admit that he really put a ton of effort into Delicious when he was wagoned and close to a lynch.

That's not what I got in GIF's flipless nightless from town Gray. He was very active town.

But I admit I didn't pay attention to him much in delicious. I didn't need to.

Can I see that game or did you already link it?

[SilverWolf]

You're fickle

ASP pings scum to me, mostly a gut feel. I wouldn't cry at his lynch although I agree it would be low info. if he was town and I'd prefer a replacement or him to start posting more.

[SilverWolf]

IOW, he doesn't effort much as town and can be a bit of a VI but I will admit that he really put a ton of effort into Delicious when he was wagoned and close to a lynch.

That's not what I got in GIF's flipless nightless from town Gray. He was very active town.

But I admit I didn't pay attention to him much in delicious. I didn't need to.

Can I see that game or did you already link it?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=62589

Thanks, I'm going to compare a couple town games to see if he has more fire in them than he's show here. If I can find it, then I would probably be o.k. with re-voting him.

[SilverWolf]

I agree he was very spirited in Delicious with his interactions with scum TSO and even combative somewhat with me in the last game we played. I have no idea what he's like as scum but he is indeed passive here. I'll take a look at that game and likely revote him at that point.

[SilverWolf]

SW is slight town read, but I've never seen her scum game. SW can you link me 1 or 2 of your most recent scum games?

Sure. These are my last two. I have several others and if you want them, I can link them for you. Just let me know.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=63066

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61824

How would you characterize your scum play vs your town play?

I'm a lot more careful and cautious as scum. I don't really give a fuck as town.

It seems simplistic and if you need me to elaborate I can, but that about sums it up I think.

[SilverWolf]

K?

I'm looking at that game now and yeah, Gray was really different there. He was combative, actively scumhunting, even complaining about lurking.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I don't have much experience with him but I don't like the lurking, the fact that so many are giving him easy townreads and defending him and the L-1 on grayfoxxxx at first because he was sheeping your reasons without checking to see if they were accurate or not. Later, when he said he had the same experience with grayfoxxxx makes me feel better about that vote.

[SilverWolf]

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

This is not true. Fro99er did not throw his vote around in that game as scum. He was kind of lurky in the beginning and voting people for weak reasons and I did not see too many vote switches like he's doing this game. Later, he was a lot more active and after his rough start, I was townreading him most of the game until I got killed by his scumteam.

So why the blatantly false meta read that I can easily refute?

I can show you where I called him on it. You don't have to agree but it's what I believed. Turns out I was right.

Sure, also have you played with Not_Mafia before? If so, can you link it?

[SilverWolf]

OK, Don't link that or talk about it. I'll check myself.

[SilverWolf]

Last game you threw votes around, and what you are doing this game looks similar.

This is not true. Fro99er did not throw his vote around in that game as scum. He was kind of lurky in the beginning and voting people for weak reasons and I did not see too many vote switches like he's doing this game. Later, he was a lot more active and after his rough start, I was townreading him most of the game until I got killed by his scumteam.

So why the blatantly false meta read that I can easily refute?

Ok this is blatantly false

Frogger changed votes 7 times D1... my point stands that she was throwing her vote around. It's not as much yet today, and this why it's not a solid scum read for me

Was he changing it on a whim like he's been doing here or was he explaining himself more? Is vote switching like that town or scum to you?

Also, checked the game you are in with NM and I feel better about his vote on you now. I can't elaborate on it though.

pedit: OK will look at those games as well.

[SilverWolf]

No, his original vote on you was bad because he was sheeping Fro99er without checking that game to see if it was true. As town, he should be doing that rather than blindly sheeping Fro99er. But later he said in his experience with you, he agrees. I can't discuss but I did look at the game you guys are currently in and that makes me feel better about it now. I'm not townreading NM like so many are but I don't mind the vote with this additional info. at hand.

[SilverWolf]

I just don't know how he can townread me in a game I'm still involved in. That's all. Anyone could look on there own since it can't be discussed. I'm done talking about that

Holy crap, I am dense. The game is unfinished. There's no way he could say what he did about you unless he has another game where you were town and played that way.

@NM-Please link a finished game you had with grayfoxxxx where you saw him, as town, play more energetically. If you can't, you are scum trying to sheep bad reasoning and making up shit to push this lynch.

VOTE: Not Mafia

[SilverWolf]

I get where that can be confusing and unfortunately it's an ongoing game so I have to be extremely careful how I word this but, I fucked up basically and didn't take into account the game is ongoing when saying I was o.k. with NM's vote. You said that was the only game you had with him. He said in his experience with you, that Fro99er was right about you being more passive here than in town games. Crap, ongoing makes it tough. But unless NM has another town game with you that he was in where you played differently than here and you were town, he's basically lying to get you lynched.

[SilverWolf]

I like Soren's last post and I can see the points on Vedith kind of whining about why other people aren't doing his work for him and kind of being antagonistic in the back and forth with a few people.

NM, Vedith, ASP-that's where I'm at right now for scumreads.

ASP is mostly gut but even though he's only posted a few times, I don't like them.

NM's L-1 jump on gray was opportunistic with bad reasoning

I don't like Vedith going after gray for RL issues-that's null not scum

Gray sort of reminds me of some play he's done as town but it's a weak read

[SilverWolf]

Could people who aren't gonna play the game just replace out?

TIA

Oh, wah. So I don't have as much time as you. Thanks for being a jerk.

It's interesting though how you took the time to post this comment and also assumed I was talking about you automatically which means you know you haven't posted much of anything for days.

Also, I gave grayfoxxxx a lot more shit about this than you so far.

And it was right after NM was prodded for the second time I posted it. He's not really playing in case you haven't noticed.

I'm never nice about this kind of play in any of my games because if you can't play, don't sign up. The reactions I get to "being a jerk" about this or don't get are useful to me, and it case you didn't realize it-scum likes to lurk. The more active someone is, the more likely they are to be analyzed.

We almost lynched grayfoxxxx a couple days ago with plenty of time left in the deadline and your vote on him would of helped that. You voted for someone, then left the game for days. I specifically said I wanted you to post before the day ended because I'm not especially feeling strongly you are town where gray was at least trying again.

[SilverWolf]

Wow, I haven't posted for a day here... I thought I would have some catching up to do...

I would ask why Gray hasn't got more votes, but the inactivity on here tells me why already.

It's so obvious that he only got active when people were pressuring him on it.

This game has been plenty active lately. You are scum. Goodbye.

VOTE: Vedith

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

Fuck my life, sorry!!

[SilverWolf]

Now, I need to re-read this game with that in mind. There's probs scum on your wagon. Actually...............

VOTE: grayfoxxxx

[SilverWolf]

SW - talk to me about your read on Kop? What's he done to advance the game in a protown way that scum wouldn't be able to imitate?

It's mostly a meta read. When we were masons together he was more active and involved in the game. When he was scum who neighborized me, he lurked like crazy and didn't say too much unless pressed.

Here he seems more engaged in the game and more active.

This isn't much for a strong townread. I have a much stronger townread on you and a halfway decent one on Fro99er. Vedith is town now unless fakeclaiming. Soren is a light townread. So that leaves Kop, NM, grayfoxxxx, and ASP.

I have that meta read on Kop. The other three are scum via PoE for right now.

[SilverWolf]

I feel like we are kind of stagnated here right now and should come together on a lynch candidate. A flip will really help this game I think.

I'm willing to compromise from grayfoxxxx to ASP or NM.

Let's talk about this some. Inactivity is not going to help anything.

[SilverWolf]

Actually grayfoxxxx and NM likely are not scum together.

Perhaps everyone should lay out their cases on their biggest scumspect?

ASP-if you could finish your catchup and actually post something and maybe vote or something, that would be immensely helpful.

[SilverWolf]

393 is horrendously bad by Soren. She moved kop from scum to null but didn't elaborate. She moved me from a townlean for looking at meta to completely null with no reasoning.

@Soren-you say you will lynch in your null reads but have no scumreads, who in your null reads do you want to lynch?

That whole post reeks of fencesitting and waiting to see which way the wind blows and your read progressions do not make sense and if I can't follow them, then they are not town to me.

I would like others opinions on this because there already is considerable resistance to Soren being scum so those of you who think she's town-please explain why?

Also, I recall a town game she played-I wasn't in it, where she was different than this and I'll try to find it if I can remember the name or go meta diving if I get some time.

[SilverWolf]

I feel like we are kind of stagnated here right now and should come together on a lynch candidate. A flip will really help this game I think.

I'm willing to compromise from grayfoxxxx to ASP or NM.

Let's talk about this some. Inactivity is not going to help anything.

Why

Why what? I've explained all these reads a few times now and I would like you to be less passive and actually elaborate on what more you need to know from me.

The fact I have to work to get you to do this, should explain why I'm leaning scum on you now plus if Vedith is town, your spot on his wagon didn't look good either.

ASP and NM were mostly PoE plus not townreading them plus a little bit of gut. Leaning scum on Soren now though. Everyone else is town to me right now.

[SilverWolf]

Because the weather is nice.

[SilverWolf]

@GL-Do you have other scumreads outside of Kop?

[SilverWolf]

Why are you still thinking I'm scum?

Can you share your thinking on frogger?

What about ASPs catch up post?

What do you think of NM not acknowledging his false read on me?

PoE at this point plus your sluggish play.

ASP's catch up post tells me nothing because he hasn't finished it yet, given reads, or voted.

I think it's scummy and have already said I'd be fine lynching him. Others think he's town though so meh.

Leaning town on Fro99er.

[SilverWolf]

I'd like ASP to finish his catch up and give his reads. Other than that, I'm fine with the day being done.

VOTE: Not Mafia

L-1

[SilverWolf]

@GL-Do you have other scumreads outside of Kop?

Also, want an answer to this question before the day ends as well. While I'm townreading GL, I do feel like he's been sitting on Kop all day and not scumhunting elsewhere.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah I'm growing more and more unhappy with this NM wagon, especially since he claimed tracker. Why don't we lynch ASP, NM can track Kop, and Vedith can shoot Grayfox? (since I'm sure he's going to do that regardless of whatever we do today)

I've already said I'm willing to lynch ASP. He's lurking out the game and getting super defensive when called on it. His posts are just general comments on the game and he's not exactly giving reads or pushing anyone. I'd rather he replaced but just by PoE alone, he could be scum. I'm worried about Soren as well. NM is a fucking idiot if he's a for real tracker and claimed in his first post. He's also not exactly looking town to me in any way, shape, or form this game. Also, all the PR softs, hints, etc. people need to either STFU about it or ignore it. Speculating on what it going on with all that is anti-town at best and very, very annoying. Let's leave the WIFOM out there for scum to deal with. No more talk about that shit!!

This isn't directed at you so much as just at the game in general.

[SilverWolf]

I know, I'm just kind of irritated that two people decided to soft PR's for no fucking reason and a third one got outed. It's kind of annoying but I get what you are doing and why. There is a danger in speculating too much about this stuff though and I prefer not to say why.

If you truly believe NM is a bad lynch, then I'll unvote.

UNVOTE:

Keep in mind, we have this much time or face a NL.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-10 20:54:00)

If the vig shoots town tonight and we mislynch today we are screwed depending on how many scum there are. I don't think ASP will be useful to us if he is town and makes it to LyLo. I don't especially think he's town.

VOTE: A Simple Plan

[SilverWolf]

SW

- what are your opinions on Kop's 268, 269 and 406, if you think speculating/talking about PRs in a WIFOM manner is anti-town? With my recent posts with PR speculation, I haven't introduced any new information that wasn't already out there, so I think it's useful evidence in deciding on a lynch target.

I don't want to talk about it but I don't especially want to lynch Kop today either.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

Unfortunately, this game has become too lurky for me to figure out. If we lynch town today and Vedith shoots town by mistake and scum kills town, we are likely screwed tomorrow and I'm not sure enough in my scumreads to lynch with any confidence.

We should no lynch. Let Vedith shoot. Let the PR's do their things. Come back tomorrow and analyze the flips, kills and go from there.

I'd like EVERYONE to post more going forward or replace if you can't. You can call me a jerk or whatever, but once a day-something of substance-should not be too much to ask.

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, I'm done for this dayphase.

I'm starting to get frustrated.

[SilverWolf]

I'm starting to get the sense that there's possibly some cooperation between some group of fox/silverwolf/kop, given how quick they all jumped onto the NM wagon and how much Kop has coasted without suspicion. Additionally, NM is a gut townlean but I don't want to be his lawyer and his lack of effort/transparency is starting to wear thin.

This is a load of manure.

NM has been a scumread of mine all game.

Also, Kop has had plenty of suspicion this game.

What is the difference between NM's play and Kop's that makes you think Kop is scum and NM is town?

[SilverWolf]

Well, we no lynch and Vedith vigs ASP.

Scum and PR's do their thing overnight.

We come back here and analyze the next day.

[SilverWolf]

Well, We can give suggestions so that he doesn't put us in lylo by shooting wrong.

I fail to see an issue with that at all.

[SilverWolf]

Well, Say ASP flips town. He hasn't posted much so it's not like my scumread on him is super solid. Then say Vedith shoots someone and he hits town and then scum kills town overnight.

That's a worst case scenario but it bugs me. I don't want to be forced into lylo on D2.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: A Simple Plan

At work. Will post more later.

[SilverWolf]

@SW
What made you change your mind?

It seems to be the general consensus that we should lynch today and I can see the point since it's D1 with almost no info. otherwise.

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, Here's where I'm at.

Soren's last post looked good enough that I'm willing to take her off the table for a lynch today. Still townreading GL and Fro99er. GL more than Fro99er.

Most people seem to say NM is town or leaning that way and I'm fine leaving him alone for today.

So that boils it down to Kop, grayfoxxxx, and ASP. Of these 3 ASP is the worst. I am more than happy to lynch him because his posts don't look town, he's lurking it out, and PoE.

We need to consolidate soon with less than 2 days left of this deadline. Especially if we are going to lynch today.

[SilverWolf]

@SW
What made you change your mind?

It seems to be the general consensus that we should lynch today and I can see the point since it's D1 with almost no info. otherwise.

I still think no lynch is the safer option here.

Not if we lynch scum today.

[SilverWolf]

Then we hope night actions resolve in our favor.

Any number of things could happen. D1 NL is not optimal for info. purposes.

This game needs some flips I think.

I think ASP has a higher than average chance of hitting scum.

[SilverWolf]

I won't cry if we end up NLing.

ASP should die though regardless IMO.

[SilverWolf]

The hell. You broke the forums.

I've fixed it, god knows what I did.

I agree with that plan kop and am fine with it.

Regarding this though. The forum will break like that if you ever try to quote something that has a quote with a spoiler in it. It's a system glitch.

[SilverWolf]

OK Well do what you have to do. Not sure it's really necessary to tell us right now. It's best to WIFOM that stuff.

[SilverWolf]

I do kind of wonder why grayfoxxxx doesn't want to lynch today outside of sheeping my reasons?

[SilverWolf]

I do kind of wonder why grayfoxxxx doesn't want to lynch today outside of sheeping my reasons?

Your reasons aren't so profound that I can only sheep them.

Don't give your self so much credit.

K

You forgot to give s read on me.

[SilverWolf]

Kthnxbai

VOTE: ASP

hmmmmmm.....................

[SilverWolf]

Well, that sucks about Grey. It sucks NM hammered without a claim. I guess ASP's flip prob. means aliens in the game. The fact that was the only kill means there was a block of some kind. I'm tempted to say the rest of us claim since most seemed to have done so already to PoE out scum. Thoughts?

[SilverWolf]

I am willing to massclaim. At this point, when scum can be outed via PoE, this is probably the most helpful thing we can do. I really do want to hear from Soren and Fro99er on this for ~reasons~ before we do anything more.

[SilverWolf]

I'm a town enabler. I know the person I enable but they don't know I enable them. If I flip, it will not show who I enable and that person will not know they no longer can use their abilities. I do not know what abilities the person has that I'm enabling or their alignment.

A better description of the role is here: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Enabler

I could say who I enable but that may not be the best idea.

OK, who's next?

[SilverWolf]

Fro99er I was scumreading ASP for a long time. We needed flips and a NL on D1 wouldn't of been as helpfu or productivel. I didn't sheep you at all. I changed my mind. Period.

[SilverWolf]

My Role PM is very specific and different from the wiki. Pretty tough thing to fake. I will say my thoughts on who I think is scum after everyone role claims.

[SilverWolf]

Vedith it must be with Soren given lack of multiple kills. Vig claim makes sense as a fake claim.

Pretty much what I was going to say after all the claims.

[SilverWolf]

I would like to know why someone claiming 1 shot vig and only one kill going through the night before, confirms them as town?

I've also been suspicious of Soren since the beginning of the game.

Since it's only 4 to lynch, we have plenty of time, and everyone hasn't claimed yet, I can wait to vote. Claims might help-whether or not they are believable, etc in figuring out the remaining scum.

But the above is my guess for scum right now.

[SilverWolf]

Vedith I urge you to not shoot me tonight. It isn't a good move for you.

Looks like a soft claim to me.

[SilverWolf]

Everyone needs to claim.

[SilverWolf]

Fro99er there was no reason he can't claim that as it helps us PoE out the scum and you saying no and then claiming for him is off. I want to see people claim for themselves from now on.

[SilverWolf]

Waiting on Soren then. I'll give thoughts after that.

[SilverWolf]

Maybe, but there's a reason I'm asking everyone to claim. I'll explain it all after Soren claims.

[SilverWolf]

Well, that throws my theory out the window and was why I wanted you to claim first. If there wasn't a protective role, then that would confirm Vedith as scum to me because I'm pretty sure GF jailed NM because that was who he was most suspicious of by a long shot. This is why I wanted Kop and NM to claim because if NM stuck by his tracker claim, that would look suspicious to me for both of them. Then that would mean without a protect role that NM would not be the NK and that scum wouldn't be blocked either which is why it would confirm Vedith as scum. GL is a good NK target so that pretty much wrecks that. I still didn't want anyone unclaimed because it's too easy for scum to hide behind that with a WIFOM (better not say right now) type of argument. Plus, if for some reason GF jailed a NK target as a protect shot instead, that means there could be multiball and we could be in lylo.

Now let's have a look at the set-up:

-GL: Cop, the way he claimed was pretty town, and his play all game has been pretty town, not interested in lynching.

-Kop: Been softing his role all game, hid behind NM, not interested in lynching these two as it seems too convoluted to be scum.

-NM: Mason

-Fro99er: Has a not mafia result, only possibility is alien. Conspiracy theorist

-Vedith: One-shot vig, it's possible but this is something I've seen scum fake before

-Soren: Claimed doc and GF protect

-Me: Town Enabler

-GF: dead JK

-ASP: dead, another conspiracy theorist

I'm really not sure where to go from here, I'm gonna ISO I think, but be careful voting cuz it could be lylo.

Other opinions are very welcome right now.

[SilverWolf]

Also, gonna examine the set-up again as roles are randomly assigned I believe regardless of alignment, duplicates or if they are necessary or not.

Still don't like that Vedith shot GF after his obvious soft though.

[SilverWolf]

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Cop
Cop
Doctor
Conspiracy Theorist
Conspiracy Theorist
Miller
Tentacled Townie
Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
Tracker
Vanilla Cop
Jack of all Trades (one Cop, one Roleblock, one Doctor)
Bulletproof Townie
One-shot Vigilante
Lover
Lover
Lover
Mason
Mason
Vengeful Townie
Innocent Child
Hider
One-shot Governor
Jailkeeper
Enabler (linked player is random)
Mafia Godfather
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Strongman
Mafia Lover
Mafia Doctor
Mafia Tracker
Mafia One-shot Governor
Mafia Compulsive Hider
Hirsute Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Alien Prober
Alien Vanillaiser
Alien Bloodsucker
Alien Sympathiser
Bulletproof Alien Lover
Alien Psychotrooper
Alien Silencer
Alien One-shot Mass Redirector

This shows that all claimed roles are possible and that roles are not assigned regardless of alignment like I thought. Also, that doc could be scum as well as town.

[SilverWolf]

Oh and Mafia could be hider as well and it's compulsive.

So the doc and hider claims could still be scum even with the NM being town thing.

Or am I totally off here?

But with the missing kills-that could be doc or JK's doing.

And is it off to think the vig could be a fakeclaim considering the GF kill after his soft saying it wouldn't be wise?

My brain is mush. I'm tired. Someone else give input please.

[SilverWolf]

I would like to know why someone claiming 1 shot vig and only one kill going through the night before, confirms them as town?

Just a skim.
This shouldn't confirm me. However, where did I say 1 shot vig?

Yeah this is so active.

L1 without claiming SW? Scummy move...

I'm the 1 shot vig... Great job on letting scum lead you...

Why do you not know your own role?

[SilverWolf]

Vedith looks pretty scummy, but I can't quite convince myself yet that he would claim vig D1 knowing that he would have to produce a body.

It would be quite an easy thing to do if Soren is his partner. If Soren's a mafia doc, whatever Vedith is, can claim one-shot vig, shoot GF, Soren can claim to have blocked a shot by protecting the most likely NK target and there ya go.

The only thing throwing me off from this scenario is the fact that GF was a JK and we don't know who he jailed which sucks. He could of blocked a kill and we would never know.

Damn you for shooting him Vedith. He did soft PR.

[SilverWolf]

Like, if I take out Kop and NM as scum, I know I'm town, GL's claim and behavior looks town, then that just leaves Fro99er, Soren, and Vedith.

I am going to ISO those 3 and go from there.

[SilverWolf]

Actually with a not mafia on Fro99er the only thing he could be is an alien and that would mean 3 possible kills. Only one went through. The only way Fro99er is an alien with a blocked kill is if Vedith is the vig and scum shot GF and he was protected and then the alien shot whoever GF protected.

I mean the ways that Fro99er would have to be scum are kind of convoluted enough that I'm pretty o.k. with taking him off the table. I mean, I'll re-ISO but I've had a mild townread on him all game and that's another reason I'd be willing to do this. Also, claiming conspiracy theorist with an already flipped conspiracy theorist seems like a pretty bad fakeclaim and we know scum don't have the same roles as town so.

Yeah, it comes down to Soren and Vedith as scum. I do want to ISO them and others to make sure but this is pretty much where I'm at as of right now. Of those two, I'd rather go for Vedith just in case I'm way off and Soren is actually a doc.

[SilverWolf]

Actually with a not mafia on Fro99er the only thing he could be is an alien and that would mean 3 possible kills. Only one went through. The only way Fro99er is an alien with a blocked kill is if Vedith is the vig and scum shot

GF

GL and he was protected and then the alien shot whoever GF protected.

I mean the ways that Fro99er would have to be scum are kind of convoluted enough that I'm pretty o.k. with taking him off the table. I mean, I'll re-ISO but I've had a mild townread on him all game and that's another reason I'd be willing to do this. Also, claiming conspiracy theorist with an already flipped conspiracy theorist seems like a pretty bad fakeclaim and we know scum don't have the same roles as town so.

Yeah, it comes down to Soren and Vedith as scum. I do want to ISO them and others to make sure but this is pretty much where I'm at as of right now. Of those two, I'd rather go for Vedith just in case I'm way off and Soren is actually a doc.

EBWOP

[SilverWolf]

Well, I guess scum could of gone for the same people. There is that possibility I guess. Still o.k. with what I said above.

[SilverWolf]

Actually with a not mafia on Fro99er the only thing he could be is an alien and that would mean 3 possible kills. Only one went through. The only way Fro99er is an alien with a blocked kill is if Vedith is the vig and scum shot GF and he was protected and then the alien shot whoever GF protected.

Why do you rule out the possibility of an Alien scum faction with no mafia team?

Ugh............you are right. I keep confusing myself.

A game of Great Idea Mafia using the Basic Mafia and Aliens sub-deck. If necessary, setup will be rerolled until the following two conditions are met:

• There is at least one scum faction with two or more members.
  
• There are at least five town players.

As this is a Great Idea game, balance is explicitly not guaranteed.

Also, claiming conspiracy theorist with an already flipped conspiracy theorist seems like a pretty bad fakeclaim and we know scum don't have the same roles as town so.

Yeah, it comes down to Soren and Vedith as scum. I do want to ISO them and others to make sure but this is pretty much where I'm at as of right now. Of those two, I'd rather go for Vedith just in case I'm way off and Soren is actually a doc.

Otherwise, I generally agree with this. I would really like to see some scumreads from Vedith/Soren since it feels like everyone is leaning towards them being scum, which is giving me one of those 'this lynch is too easy' vibes.

Reads from them would be nice. It's purely PoE from me at this point.

[SilverWolf]

I killed Gray.
No PM to say that it was unsuccessful either.
It was pretty obvious that I would shoot him, he should have claimed and hoped for a doc or something.

Btw, can I point out that someone else could have also killed Gray.
If others saw him soft claim then they could have too.

Why can't you get your role or your actions right?

[SilverWolf]

Actually find it sus that Soren picked GL considering there were quite a few softs in the game as well as one outed role. GL hadn't even hinted at having a PR.

I've also been suspicious of Soren all game and she's been very inactive and I am having a hard time following her train of thought on some of her reads where Vedith is pretty much crystal clear.

VOTE: Soren

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

In case we are in lylo. I would like consensus on a lynch candidate before voting.

Everyone-give thought on this please. NM and Fro99er already did with their votes but the rest of you?

[SilverWolf]

FFS, I forgot about your not alien result on Soren. Could be a mafia doc or is town.

Vedith seems like the best option right now.

Everyone else? Thoughts?

[SilverWolf]

Oh OK, I think I misunderstood. I thought you were denying it was you that shot Gray when you said earlier that you did. nvm

Just waiting for others input on who they think is scum here. I'm going to avoid putting a second vote down until everyone has weighed in, just in case of lylo.

[SilverWolf]

No, I was saying Vedith was clear on who he thought was scum where Soren's reads were muddled and she kept changing them.

Vedith's behavior since we started suspecting him has been to cast shade on anyone else he can. I am fine with this lynch but I want everyone to get their thoughts out there so the info. is in the thread to use going forward.

I still have a problem with a GL protect from Soren considering that Vedith was outed as a vig (if town), NM was hinting tracker, Kop was softing an obvious PR that could visit people. It just does not make sense.

Vedith's confusion on being a one shot vig struck me wrong as well.

[SilverWolf]

I disagree that Gray's soft wasn't obvious. He warned Vedith that it would make him look bad. He was clearly hinting he would flip PR and he did.

Also, Gray was making real effort at the end there to give reads and get them into the thread. I re-ISO'd him. As vig in previous games, I always ISO'd people and even meta dived a couple times to make sure I was shooting correctly. I hit scum doing that.

That said, it's hard to say what a better shot would of been and as vig, he has to shoot. If it were me, I would of shot NM for that crappy hammer without a claim.

[SilverWolf]

Get your head out of your arse. I'm done here as the nit picking and word twisting is so fucking stupid that a blind town easily follows.

Tell us who we should lynch instead then and give reasons for it.

[SilverWolf]

Nope, I'm town. My role PM was very specific and not something that can be easily faked as it is different than the wiki and specific to this game. Enablers are generally town aligned. You make zero sense saying I'm very town in my play but then vote me over Vedith who isn't. I will say who I enable if it comes down to it because lynching me could lose the game for town.

[SilverWolf]

I have no idea which resolves first regarding hider vs JK. If NM is JK does it work? Does it work if Kop is? Kop can you ask the mod? He might be willing to answer you on this since it's specific to your role. Not sure how much it matters since we don't know who GF jailed.

[SilverWolf]

Right I'm not going down this path. I Enable Fro99er. You lynch me and he can't act. Enabler is a town role in this set up. You say I'm playing town but then say I'm fake claiming when only my death can confirm it even though it was extremely specific claim relevant to this game.

[SilverWolf]

I don't know who's scum. That's the truth but I'm not going to put all this effort in and be told I'm playing town and fakeclaiming when others aren't doing shit.

[SilverWolf]

I don't choose. It's in my role PM. Check where I claimed. I explained it in detail.

[SilverWolf]

The fact you don't understand my claim yet still say I could be fakeclaiming really ticks me off.

[SilverWolf]

I'm at work phone posting but read the roles again under the link the mod provided and then read my claim again which was the first claim after everyone agreed to it. Fro99ers name was in my role PM. Read what I said again.

[SilverWolf]

I'm a town enabler. I know the person I enable but they don't know I enable them. If I flip, it will not show who I enable and that person will not know they no longer can use their abilities. I do not know what abilities the person has that I'm enabling or their alignment.

A better description of the role is here: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Enabler

I could say who I enable but that may not be the best idea.

OK, who's next?

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Cop
Cop
Doctor
Conspiracy Theorist
Conspiracy Theorist
Miller
Tentacled Townie
Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
Tracker
Vanilla Cop
Jack of all Trades (one Cop, one Roleblock, one Doctor)
Bulletproof Townie
One-shot Vigilante
Lover
Lover
Lover
Mason
Mason
Vengeful Townie
Innocent Child
Hider
One-shot Governor
Jailkeeper
Enabler (linked player is random)
Mafia Godfather
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Strongman
Mafia Lover
Mafia Doctor
Mafia Tracker
Mafia One-shot Governor
Mafia Compulsive Hider
Hirsute Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Alien Prober
Alien Vanillaiser
Alien Bloodsucker
Alien Sympathiser
Bulletproof Alien Lover
Alien Psychotrooper
Alien Silencer
Alien One-shot Mass Redirector

People should really get this straight before accusing a person of fake claiming.

[SilverWolf]

Yep and under the list of roles for this set up, it says linked player is random. My role PM says exactly what I claimed and gave me Fro99er's name.

[SilverWolf]

Everyone's claim can be fake so I don't think you should take offense to people trying to figure out whether yours is or not.

Just to be clear, I didn't take offense at the way you questioned it. I took offense at the way Soren did.

Soren is someone who called me town, then nulls me, then when called on it goes back to town-she can't keep her read on me straight. Then she comes in here and says I'm playing town and actively trying to solve the game and my play looks town but when it comes down to me or Vedith, suddenly it's me which does not make sense considering Vedith has not been playing especially town this game. Then she says I could easily be fakeclaiming because I'm not an investigative and haven't been checked by one but then indicates she doesn't even understand my claim so how can she be so sure it's fake? She's just slinging mud. Then when I out who I Enable, she suddenly decides to vote Vedith but continues to case shade at me in an effort to get the lynch back on me. I agree with this:

The fact you don't understand my claim yet still say I could be fakeclaiming really ticks me off.

And the fact that he's voting vedith and still throwing shade on you is a scumbuddy tell (Soren+Vedith) of the highest order.

Now we get to Vedith. Vedith is not interested in trying to solve this game or figuring out who scum could be. He hasn't really done much this game except tunnel town grayfoxxxx. As scum, he can shoot Gray and say it's a vig shot. When pushed, he gives up. So he very easily could be scum.

I think it's Vedith plus Soren scumteam. Probably Mafia since Soren is not an alien. However, I'd be willing to have Soren checked tonight by GL. She should protect GL while this happens is she's town. This would solve the issue of Soren one way or the other. I usually don't like to tell scum what PR's are doing overnight but at this point, I think it hardly matters. Fro99er can do what he wants. Even if I die, he can still check someone one more time as long as I'm not lynched today.

So, I intend to vote Vedith as soon as everyone indicates they have nothing more to add and are o.k. with an L-1 vote in a possible lylo situation. If someone has an alternative to who scum could be or thinks Vedith is town, now is the time to speak up.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Vedith

L-1

[SilverWolf]

OK, Well if Vedith flips town, it's NM and Kop then. Town quickhammers in a row. I've had it with that shit.

[SilverWolf]

OK, Well if Vedith flips town, it's NM and Kop then.

Town

two quickhammers in a row. I've had it with that shit.

EBWOP

[SilverWolf]

Sounds good GL.

I am pretty sure if Vedith is town, and we haven't just fucking lost the game, then it's NM and Kop or NM and Soren scumteam. One of those.

[SilverWolf]

Well, it can't be NM, Soren without Kop involved somehow.

I don't like these quickhammers.

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, Kop went quiet, Vedith has done nothing to help, and either has NM.

Scum has to be in this group somewhere.

Then again, if we lost, it doesn't fucking matter.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, that threesome is certainly possible.

I am the one who pushed for a massclaim though so blame me if we lost.

[SilverWolf]

It really bugs me that so many people were protecting NM as town.

Well, let's just see what happens I guess.

[SilverWolf]

Also, if Vedith, Kop, or NM are town than screw them for not helping.

[SilverWolf]

That's what I'm hoping for. Quickhammers always make me nervous.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, we lost.

[SilverWolf]

NM scumclaimed.

I'd say that exact thing as scum here.

[SilverWolf]

[SilverWolf]

If Kop is scum I will never trust him in a game again.

[SilverWolf]

If the game isn't over, pick someone but don't tell us who so scum doesn't know. That's probably the best with your role right now.

[SilverWolf]

Actually you die if you hide behind scum so maybe not due to that maybe costing us the game.

[SilverWolf]

You either don't hide or don't announce it if you change your mind and decide to hide. It's pretty risky if the game isn't over and you die. Riskier than hiding behind someone to clear them, just in chase you choose wrong. We have enough investigatives and a protect, if they are all town, to take care of night actions.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Soren

[SilverWolf]

So do we just flashlynch Soren today?

VOTE: Soren

LOL...i'll take that as a yes

Yep, LOL.

Hi, Soren would of protected the cop if she was town. She would want to be proven innocent. She killed him because he was checking her. There is no excuse. Especially considering her behavior towards myself and Vedith yesterday.

[SilverWolf]

So do we just flashlynch Soren today?

Soren - why didn't you protect the cop?

I tried to outwit scum. Because they would undoubtedly think that I would protect GL right? So they wouldn't even try to kill him. So I thought to myself, scum is going to think that way so why not protect someone else knowing that scum won't be killing GL. But I guess that didn't work.

LOL-no. Town Soren protects the one who can clear her. Scum Soren kills the one who can incriminate her.

It really is this simple.

You die today.

[SilverWolf]

They would have killed you if they didn't want to shoot the cop.

Also, this. IF you were town which you are not.

[SilverWolf]

Hi I'm town and I hate lylo!

Also at work so can't do much right now sadly.

[SilverWolf]

Oh fuck my life. I'm the deciding vote. Well I'm def waiting until after work then.

[SilverWolf]

OK, Time to read. I honestly hate lylo and haven't been in this position in a long time. The last time I was, I totally fucked it up and town lost. So now I have to just make sure before I vote. I am not going to drag it out or anything. I'm just going to make sure. I had a townread on both Kop and Fro99er so that makes it harder. I honestly didn't mind quicklynching Soren because I thought the game would be over then.

If Fro99er is scum, he's an alien. The NM kill makes sense then because if he kills Kop, and Kop flips town hider, that means he has a conftown NM in lylo with me and that's not ideal. It's better to kill NM and have Kop and I there because then neither of us would be confirmed town or even having been checked by an investigative.

If Kop were to be scum, he would have to have gotten lucky with NM because NM was scummy IMO. It looks more like he was willing to sacrifice himself to find scum, particularly with his crumbing. So who would an ideal kill for Kop be? Not NM and then it would probably be Fro99er and he'd try to turn NM on me or me and turn NM on Fro99er. It's not outside the realm of possibility but not all that likely either.

OK, I'll re-read today's posts and get back to you guys.

[SilverWolf]

Meh, I'm actually rethinking that. It would make sense IF he was compulsive hider to hide behind me or you, kill NM, and then go after whoever he didn't hide behind and clear the other one to get them on his side.

However, 748 is one of the most town posts I've seen in a game in a long while. I have a hard time see scum!Kop make that post. But you make a decent point in 749 as well. I like Kop's 758 although not as much as 749.

Holy crap, I came into this thread with the intention to vote for Fro99er but I'm a little paranoid Kop is fooling me again.

I figured NK analysis would tell me one way or another but maybe not.

You both were townreads of mine and look town with this 1v1 and I really don't want to fuck up lylo again.

Damn it.

[SilverWolf]

I already investigated NM. Wolfie is obvtown.

If I investigate you and get a not mafia result that confirms you didn't hide which confirms you as town. Because mafia hider MUST hide.

Why would you get a not mafia result on me?[/quote]
obviously I meant not alien. You're just being obtuse.[/quote]

Messed up the quotes but this is the only thing that gave me pause cuz Vedith couldn't keep her role straight either.

I don't really get what Fro99er has to gain from this type of fakeclaim but Kop seems town :/

Fro99er has a not mafia result. So if he's scum he's an alien. These are the alien roles. Not sure why he'd pick conspiracy theorist when there are better ones unless he knew he was the only alien?

Here's the alien roles:

Alien Prober
Alien Vanillaiser
Alien Bloodsucker
Alien Sympathiser
Bulletproof Alien Lover
Alien Psychotrooper
Alien Silencer
Alien One-shot Mass Redirector

This would mean I've been enabling Fro99er as one of these roles if he's scum. I don't even know what most of these are except redirector so maybe I'll look them up and be back.

Oh and did I tell you guys I hate lylo?

In the future if any of you draw scum against me. Please kill me before lylo and I'll love you forever.

BRB after looking up those roles. Who knows? Maybe one of those happened this game?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah. No. Kop should not even claim. He's conftown IMO.

So if you are both town then scum has to be Soren + someone. It can't be NM ibecause Kop is conftown. It's likely not Wolfie. I am town.

Vedith it must be with Soren given lack of multiple kills. Vig claim makes sense as a fake claim.

It's so obvious what Kop is. I'll claim for him FFS.

He's hider which is a weak role.

If he hides behind scum, he does. That's why he specifically said who he was targeting so that if he flipped we'd know that person is scum. The fact that he didn't flip means NM is town.

Unless it's sort of weird gambit by Kop and NM then they are conftown.

I'm kinda gonna roll with this. Roles told me nothing. If Kop is scum hider, he hammered Soren and voted for and pushed Vedith although he wasn't on the final Vedith lynch and Soren was the obvlynch.

Hmmmm....................Kop just looks town but when ISOing both of them Fro99er does too. This sucks:/

I'm not gonna overthink it. I'll decide after I eat dinner.

[SilverWolf]

I'm gonna meta Kop and Fro99er from 188 and compare it to this game and then I'm done. I'll decide after that.

[SilverWolf]

OK Kop, I've thought this through and you seem town to me and your claim was town and your lylo discussion here was town. Fro99er looked town to me all game too which is why I had to take some time to think about it but I doubt I'll do anything more than just second guess myself and draw things out for no reason at this point.

You both played a great game. I really hope this is a town win. If not, well gg then to you and sorry to Fro99er. If so, Fro99er still did a great job. You guys would laugh if you knew how many times I came in here to vote for Fro99er and chickened out. But fact I never wanted to vote for Kop tells me all I need to know.

VOTE: Fro99er

[SilverWolf]

Oh thank goodness I was right here!!

And interesting that Kop didn't even hide behind me after all.

I really enjoyed this game everyone. Thanks for modding CDB!!

Hope to see you guys in a future game.

[SilverWolf]

Kop, this makes up for when you fooled me last time. You played a good town game. Fro99er played an excellent scum game. This was a fun game overall and I'd play this setup again.

[SilverWolf]

Hider resolves before redirect and redirect resolves before kill. So maybe the hide behind me counted first and the kill only hit NM then. That would make sense on how this resolved.

[SilverWolf]

It was hard with only ONE night kill and only ONE shot redirect. And being enabled by Wolfie made it even harder. And having no buddies! The deck was stacked against me

Yeah, I tried to figure you out all game because I enabled you and I didn't want to if you were scum so you did a good job of looking town. I probably would of outed us both if I thought you were scum.

[SilverWolf]

Hider resolves before redirect and redirect resolves before kill. So maybe the hide behind me counted first and the kill only hit NM then. That would make sense on how this resolved.

Well it said Kop hides behind NM so not sure

Night 3
Alien kills Not_Mafia
Fro99er redirects onto Not_Mafia
Kop hides behind SilverWolf (redirected to Not_Mafia, survives)

Due to Hider resolving first, this means his hide behind me counted. Then redirect is next but it apparently didn't work because Kop was already hiding behind me so you couldn't target him.. Then you shot NM and Kop was behind me and didn't die.

So I was wrong in saying he didn't hide behind me because apparently he did.

It works like a commute.

[SilverWolf]

If so I didn't really have a chance then other than to convince Wolfie which wasn't happening.

Sorry you did well but Kop was just too town to me.

Ily wolfy I never doubted you.

<3

[SilverWolf]

The hide acts as a commute and resolves first so the redirect never hit Kop cuz he was hiding behind me so that's why he survived and when you shot NM, you only hit NM.

[SilverWolf]

Natural resolution-Kills resolve last but they all resolve simultaneously.

I know that because I was able to vig kill someone in a game even when scum killed me so we both died.

[SilverWolf]

Town gets the win for lylo and Fro99er gets the win for night actions.

It's a draw or Fro99er can have it and I won't object either. It's not like he doesn't deserve it. We do too but still he was all alone so that's cool with me.

[SilverWolf]

YAY!!