Setups are already relatively townsided in the games that I've seen at least. There are a variety of factors that contribute to a scum-friendly meta environment, which I believe should be partially alleviated by the environmental factors of a blitz game.
Hence I'd be curious to see first how blitz games play out.
Fluffy fluffy~~~ |
"READING KATSUKI IS LIKE SOME SORT OF POSTMODERN ARTFORM"
- GreyICE
Katsuki is by far more absurdly beautiful than Fate. (hai parama)
Katsuki's Madness coming to you shortly: Nov, 2011!
In post 51, Katsuki wrote:Setups are already relatively townsided in the games that I've seen at least. There are a variety of factors that contribute to a scum-friendly meta environment, which I believe should be partially alleviated by the environmental factors of a blitz game.
Hence I'd be curious to see first how blitz games play out.
You may be right that shorter games reduce bad tendencies in towns (though I'm not sure it'll have much of an effect either way), but the idea that a setup is townsided while leading to more scum wins over a long period of time seems wrongheaded.
Anyway, you're right. shorter games will be interesting. But we probably need current data to compare it to in terms of regular deadline games.
That doesn't make sense.
The setup is townsided yet scum generally win because the meta is scum sided?
What?
Well shorter games would force players to be more active in the games. I think this would force town to discuss more. Scum would want to lurk more, but if town is good enough they wont let them.
Also have you guys considered eliminating V/LA for Blitz games?
Or at least make it so players can't be inactive for more than 24 hours.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 47, Katsuki wrote:As for Blitz games, towns in the past typically benefit from a fast pace for a variety of reasons. I'm curious if it will carry over to games specifically designed for a speed format.
Not sure about the current Blitz queue (which I'm actually really excited about!) but my personal experience with fast games is that it makes it far more comfortable for newbscum.
One of my favourite games ever was a marathon game where I was scum and randomly talked about food and cast absolutely unprovable aspersions on town while buddying another town dude.
Shorter deadlines are I feel likely to make my own techniques change when I roll town because I'll have to use the information at hand rather than probe for more information.
When I'm scum I'll feel more comfortable making posts that stand up to scrutiny on the surface but lack substance.
Looking pretty good right now, guys, with 4 games in the queue, but it would be great to get a few more. Right now there are 2 Opens and two themes.
Considering running a large theme in that environment, which could be disastrous, but would allow me to run a larger game with fewer killing roles and still have it not take half the year.
In post 63, zoraster wrote:Looking pretty good right now, guys, with 4 games in the queue, but it would be great to get a few more. Right now there are 2 Opens and two themes.
Considering running a large theme in that environment, which could be disastrous, but would allow me to run a larger game with fewer killing roles and still have it not take half the year.
/pre-in
I'll most likely run another game after my first one completes. There should be time, unless a zillion mods are in the wings.
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
In post 55, LucianRoy wrote:The funny thing is, on a whole bunch of other sites, the size of these games is considered standard.
LUCIAAAAAAAAAN
We need to play mafia some time, where you been mam you dissappered for months ;-;
Got caught up in life, and got carried away by it too.
I need to take some time before diving headfirst into a game.
I'd be delighted to play a game with you once I find the time.
In post 63, zoraster wrote:Considering running a large theme in that environment, which could be disastrous, but would allow me to run a larger game with fewer killing roles and still have it not take half the year.
In post 52, Ythan wrote:Dr. Katz what do you think would be a better value to represent balance or lack thereof than winrates?
I'm not a huge proponent for theoretical WRs and "EV project" so to say because they remove the psychological real world effects of certain roles, but comparing EVs to actual WRs could be a start.
TY for asking good sir.
Fluffy fluffy~~~ |
"READING KATSUKI IS LIKE SOME SORT OF POSTMODERN ARTFORM"
- GreyICE
Katsuki is by far more absurdly beautiful than Fate. (hai parama)
Katsuki's Madness coming to you shortly: Nov, 2011!
In post 52, Ythan wrote:Dr. Katz what do you think would be a better value to represent balance or lack thereof than winrates?
I'm not a huge proponent for theoretical WRs and "EV project" so to say because they remove the psychological real world effects of certain roles, but comparing EVs to actual WRs could be a start.
TY for asking good sir.
He wasn't talking about EV. He was talking about ACTUAL win rates.
In post 51, Katsuki wrote:Setups are already relatively townsided in the games that I've seen at least. There are a variety of factors that contribute to a scum-friendly meta environment, which I believe should be partially alleviated by the environmental factors of a blitz game.
Hence I'd be curious to see first how blitz games play out.
You may be right that shorter games reduce bad tendencies in towns (though I'm not sure it'll have much of an effect either way), but the idea that a setup is townsided while leading to more scum wins over a long period of time seems wrongheaded.
Anyway, you're right. shorter games will be interesting. But we probably need current data to compare it to in terms of regular deadline games.
I should note that my experiences are more skewed to large theme games, but in the majority of games I played in, town had such atrocious dayplay with their desire to overdiscuss and drown the game thread in hundreds of pages worth of posts that no setup could possibly save them from the sheer amount of fluff they buried themselves in, providing an optimal environment for scum to play in. There is no reason for ever needing 100+ pages to get through a single day.
p-edit: I'm saying compare the EV of setups run to the actual WR outcomes would make for an interesting project and comparison. So say, if the collective EV of setups tested should yield a 55% town WR, but resulted in 60% scum WR instead, that'd be interesting to explore.
Fluffy fluffy~~~ |
"READING KATSUKI IS LIKE SOME SORT OF POSTMODERN ARTFORM"
- GreyICE
Katsuki is by far more absurdly beautiful than Fate. (hai parama)
Katsuki's Madness coming to you shortly: Nov, 2011!
