Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[Sakura Hana]

So we're throwing spellcards away?

Otherworld "Ōmagatoki" - pieguy

Hi all.

[Sakura Hana]

dat gambler's fallacy

[Sakura Hana]

Are you even gonna try to read me, or are you just gonna base your choice off mere gambler's fallacy (or are you scum who already knows im town?)
Why didnt you vote for your mentioned 2 suspects?

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura Hana is muffin scummy for what you're asking him?

No

you're coming off irritated to me

No

[Sakura Hana]

If anything i think muffin is most likely to be town. Just by the sheer fact that he seems to need 4 additional votes to be lynched.

[Sakura Hana]

okidoke so just read the rules

i'm going to assume this is 12:4 nightless with 10 days to lynch the 4 scum

PS: i think i'm basically an innocent child because if i were scum, the game would literally already be over

^
This pretty much

[Sakura Hana]

I have 4, i just used 1.

Also, i just realized scum has no factional night kill.... that's interesting.
If anyone has the ability to destroy all but one spellcards plz target me.

[Sakura Hana]

your reaction to Muffin is way too touchy if you don't think he's suspicious!

What kind of reaction were you expecting then?

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura Hana I expected no serious reaction because why would town seriously consider themself in threat of being lynched over Gambler's Fallacy? whereas your post pinged me as scum frustrated they were being attacked for bad reasons

>Attacked
>Is townreading me

Does not compute

[Sakura Hana]

(ftr my gut is pinging really hard pie's scum right now, but im waiting to get my results first before i decide how to proceed)

[Sakura Hana]

Best auto correct ever.

[Sakura Hana]

I was thinking that maybe pie was using something to alter his ammount of votes, so i checked for that, in which case scum muffin would be still likely, but he didn't so im going even more wtf now...

[Sakura Hana]

I hope at least your spellcards are useful.

[Sakura Hana]

why's your gut pinging scum!Pie?

Because, there's most likely 4 scum in 16p game, muffin needing 4 extra votes at 9 to lynch means he requires 13 votes to die, so if muffin's scum he requires at least 1 scum to be busing for him to die, so it's literally impossible for him to be scum, but pie decided to vote him anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

The only thing that makes me think she might be town right now is that she used a positive utility for town card.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm not buying anyone town/scum based on fuzzy feelings about who might be easier to lynch / harder to lynch at this particular point in time

Do you have anything better to go with

at this particular point in time

then?

[Sakura Hana]

Katsuki also voted muffin... what do you think of Katsuki's vote?

Katsuki being Katsuki

also, how does the muffin vote outweigh the town points from the positive utility card in your opinion? (and why wouldn't scum use a positive utility card to look genuine?)
also Sakura how are u reading me based on my vote on you. just wondering

Don't see any scum motivation for dropping that card when the majority of the playerlist will be alive.


Thinking about it over, considering scum doesn't have a factional kill... it doesn't really make much of a difference other than... extending the deadline of the next day?

[Sakura Hana]

no, but that's a false dichotomy

I am aware, but that's what i want to go with at this point in time, why do you take issue with that?

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: pieguy
Yeah scum having no factional kill makes night talk not that useful if the same ammount of ppl are gonna be alive next day.

[Sakura Hana]

i don't? I just don't agree

Well you're free to disagree, i find it pointless to have neutral reads on everyone just because nothing has happened, i found a reason to townread muffin for right now so i'll have it.

[Sakura Hana]

also Sakura how are u reading me based on my vote on you. just wondering

I'm null reading you.

[Sakura Hana]

thing with muffin is not that he's easier/harder to lynch, it's that he's pretty much impossible to lynch unless he's town.

[Sakura Hana]

So you think mafia has an unlimited quadravoter gladiator that takes 4 more votes to lynch?

[Sakura Hana]

Well if you want to have neutral reads be my guest, i just don't see that as scum right now, i mean i've seen muffin fake claim pretty weird stuff as scum before (dat novice reflexive fruit vendor) but i just don't see him as scum right now.

[Sakura Hana]

I'll say I'm feeling town!Sakura now cuz she's much more tryhard than she was when we were buddies in the last UPick which is jumping out at me

While it's true that it's easier for me to get disinterested as scum, that time i had rolled scum like 3 times in a row and since i hate being scum i just couldn't get motivated enough to try that game, if you're gonna townread me for this, please don't.

[Sakura Hana]

I agree that this line of questioning is pointless.

[Sakura Hana]

if she thought zmuffin's -4 was a strong enough reason to read him as town that I'm scum for voting him, the parenthetical feels out of place.

It does because i realized the -4 made him town after i made that post...

Well either way your scumread on me doesn't matter since i'll become conf town tomorrow, so im just gonna ignore the rest of that blatantly scumpainting post and keep voting you.

[Sakura Hana]

Also pie only focusing on my posts concerning her is noted.

[Sakura Hana]

I hated this: I do not believe she would at this point supposedly have had a massive gut scum read on me, as she's claiming here. I think this is a scum tell because we just got out of a game where I p much rekt her as scum (<3), and she had a gut scum read on me the last two days which she had a lot of trouble explaining/reasoning out. I think she was deliberately attempting to emulate her behavior in that game by declaring a "gut" scumread on me, and so she thought having a strong gutread on me from the get go might be how she would go about pushing me early as town if she thought I might be scum - when in reality this isn't how I expect she'd actually read me as town. I would expect she'd be a lot more tentative about forming an early read on me/want to feel me out more first if she thought to push me early; she historically has tended to give me room even when she has had a scum read on me (even in EOSD where she was convinced I was scum she kinda sorta backed off near the end and at least admitted Feysal/Spiffeh cross bussing each other would make sense even though she was sure I was scum, which is indicative of the kind of leeway we give each other when town).

now that she explained the reasoning behind it (see my previous post), I feel more strongly about this than I did when I first saw it. I _really_ don't think she would have had such a major reaction to my posts when her major reason was something as weak as voting zmuffin when he had -4 votes/was unlynchable.

a more minor point, I thought 23 looked forced too, but that's splitting hairs and I wouldn't put any stock in it. all of this said, I'd like to see how she responds to this/my last post and am not interested in pushing there for the time being.

I was basically reading this whole paragraph (didn't finish the first) then saw the next part and went "oh okay pie is scum" and skipped the rest.

[Sakura Hana]

But hey, if you do want to get me mislynched, you need to do it today, it'll be literally impossible starting tomorrow.

[Sakura Hana]

All i read is "oh this looks forced because X, oh she's scum because she's faking this" literally not considering that i could be town, so my theory is that you're scum hoping for a mislynch, yes you did say you're not interested in pushing me for the time being at the end, but coupled with all that scumpainting done in that post makes me think i could've just said about anything and you could just flip it to make it look scummy. I mean you literally wrote a really big post explaining why im scum for scumreading you just to go and say "oh well maybe she's not scum"? yeah don't make me laugh. Why should I trust that you had that intention when apparently you've hated all of my posts?

[Sakura Hana]

Well okay fine you've only hated my entrance, but still that doesn't explain the huge ammounts of scumpainting done in there if you were town instead of just... trying to read me?

[Sakura Hana]

I literally cannot believe you say things like:

I hated this

now that she explained the reasoning behind it (see my previous post), I feel more strongly about this than I did when I first saw

a more minor point, I thought 23 looked forced too, but that's splitting hairs and I wouldn't put any stock in it.

About someone you think can be town.

[Sakura Hana]

if this is going to be another vitriolic-ass game where one of us keeps talking past the other, let me know now so I can just leave.

...

=/

While i know you can pull this sort of AtE as scum, it's still cheap......

[Sakura Hana]

Vote: Katsuki

[Sakura Hana]

p-edit: walk me through why?

doing nothing.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura seems obvtown

Wait what?

[Sakura Hana]

@bork: Never played Th 15?

[Sakura Hana]

Th 15 is the hardest that's ever been created so...

[Sakura Hana]

Apparently im obvtown for some unknown reason to me!

Why are you townreading shadoweh?

[Sakura Hana]

No i wasnt asking you for your townread reason on me, i know you should be able to see my towngame from a mile away (unlike a certain pieguy), the obvtown remark was about shadoweh saying im obvtown.

[Sakura Hana]

Shadoweh, do you intend to ever answer the question about how i am obvtown?

[Sakura Hana]

That's an... interesting development...

[Sakura Hana]

I guess Katsuki's not gonna do anything regardless
VOTE: shadoweh

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah i was about to ask about why you were voting the same person your scumread was voting.

[Sakura Hana]

I feel dirty voting for the same person Sakura is voting

What

[Sakura Hana]

Guess i'm really popular in this game.

[Sakura Hana]

I assume that means her vote counts as x5.... wow the ammount of shenanigans in this game confuses me.

P-Edit: oh...

[Sakura Hana]

Hmm i forgot chocola existed...
@Feysal: Disagreeing with the muffin townread is fine, discrediting is something else...

he could single-handedly lynch everyone else and win the game for his team.

This is true if he's scum, but false if he's town, if he just mislynches town at LyLo then town still loses even if he technically could try and lynch scum.
There's also the thing whether his quadvoter abilities have LyLo clause, worst case scenario he just becomes unlynchable, but he can still lose the game for town if the lynch goes wrong.

[Sakura Hana]

I've been busy this weekend and even then i've still managed to do something... you're right that more ppl need to contribute.

[Sakura Hana]

Skypal: Iirc you like meta dives? how about you read my most recent finished game with pie on: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=63671 might answer a few questions, more specifically Day 2.

[Sakura Hana]

notty has called for the blood gods
VOTE: Relentless

[Sakura Hana]

Actually the Katsuki jump onto the wagon is giving me weird vibes... but too tired rn, soo yeah.

[Sakura Hana]

Wait katsuki's a mason?
Maybe i really need to read over the stuff i missed during the weekend...

[Sakura Hana]

Ftr i didn't start in that neighborhood, i was neighborized.
That being said notty did want us to vote you for reactions, i actually think your reactions look town tho?
I'm going back here
VOTE: Shadoweh

[Sakura Hana]

Ftr i didn't start in that neighborhood, i was neighborized.

Was it ns or pie who invited you?

Not sure if they are ok with me mentioning this, but they can claim it if they want

[Sakura Hana]

when was it revealed that sakura is in a neighbourhood?

i'm not caught up and prob won't be til late tonight but i've skimmed stuff and seen several mentions of it but i didn't see it claimed before this page

it was a guess made by Relentless when us 3 voted him (Katsuki joined for... no reason?), notty and pie have had a neighborhood since day start, i got neighborized into it not too long ago.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh that reminds me, i did use a spellcard, i wonder if ppl know who i am now.

[Sakura Hana]

@Sky Paladin: My card was to detect pie's voting strength, I got neighborized by either notty/pie somewhere down the line (i think it was around saturday night?), I have townreads on pie and notty based on neighborhood posts.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah I probably used it a bit too early... see i kind of... HAVE to use that card today.

[Sakura Hana]

I'd gladly accept Gaiden in our hood.

[Sakura Hana]

Anyway I have town reads of varying strengths on pieguyn, notscience, kilgamayan, Gaiden, and Relentless.

[Sakura Hana]

I could vote bork too.

Same here

[Sakura Hana]

right now I'm leaning scum because not only are you not doing anything, you've barely even been posting to do not do anything! if you're town then please at least TRY to get engaged in the thread. surely you at least have gut reads from the past few pages?

Spoiler Alert: You will always scumread Gaiden like this, and he will still not do what you ask him to

[Sakura Hana]

by saying that you're giving him excuses if he's scum. he was a lot more invested in upick 3 even if the content level was about the same

Dunno, maybe ppl have gotten lazy at reading Gaiden ever since im around to read him (except Kagami), even if im "giving him excuses", still i haven't misread him except for that game where he was in hydra with Kagami (Monogatari). So im just saying, this isn't how you read Gaiden

[Sakura Hana]

Maybe kagami confused your ability with mine? I have 4 day cards (one of which i already used) also i can only use one each day and must use one each day.

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: bork
Would also be fine voting chocola, but we gotta start compromising

[Sakura Hana]

I voted Bork because he had the most votes out of whom i want to lynch, if ppl would rather lynch Chocola im fine with that. Also

V/LA until Monday

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: Chocola

[Sakura Hana]

Since we got more time im going back here until i can fully focus on the game.
VOTE: Shadoweh

[Sakura Hana]

It seems like i was V/LA during the whole extension... well either way i'm back.

[Sakura Hana]

I think ffery's scum.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't know... your posts look a different than i remember.

[Sakura Hana]

Nope, this is scum tho!
VOTE: ffery

[Sakura Hana]

It looks like your reads are being crafted to appease muffin rather than reaching them on your own.

[Sakura Hana]

You think Gaiden is town?

Yes

[Sakura Hana]

Do you think town got 8 extra votes?

1) Why not? (also wouldnt it be 6?)
2) Kagami's a triple voter isnt she? Is she scum too then?

P-Edit: If any of the multivoters is scum, is probably Kagami. But i don't think there necessarily have to be 1 scum among them.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh i see, so you were counting Kagami there, i thought you were only counting muffin and gaiden's 4x vote (which is 3 extra for each).
I still don't see why there has to necessarily have to be scum among those. It looks to me like you're using people's voting powers as a cop out to do some fake scumhunting (or lazy scumhunting at best which is unlike you)

[Sakura Hana]

Ok, talk to me about why Gaiden looks more town than Kagami.

I haven't seen Kagami do anything that i consider "ZOMG SO TOWN" yet, she's the lowest of reads out of the 3, that doesn't necessarily mean she's scum, it just means that if there's scum among the multivoters it's her. If anything she's just sitting there doing nothing with the info she supposedly got from our spellcards (i think?). Gaiden... well that's kind of a hard one to explain, since it's mostly gut (well everytime i read gaiden is that), and i don't why anyone's thinking he's scum right now since he's just being his usual self.

[Sakura Hana]

i still read each post
pedit: hi muffin!

...

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: bork
Part me trusting skypal, part me not knowing what the heck is going on with ffery so im asking for further confirmation about it in the SDM.

[Sakura Hana]

My gut's saying ffery is scum again...
Then again my scumteam guess includes both ffery and bork.

If Ffery's scum there's 60% chance someone in the SDM is scum, or scum's spying.

[Sakura Hana]

So many dolls, dammit Alice. Are you gonna say what those cards do?

[Sakura Hana]

So Bork just scumclaimed.

[Sakura Hana]

yeah... dark... is that all you got to say? really?

[Sakura Hana]

*darn

[Sakura Hana]

. . .

[Sakura Hana]

notscience claimed everything he had in the neighborhood before dying since he suspected what bork was up to.

[Sakura Hana]

Well i was talking about why you hadn't done your trajectory thing yet, and pie suggested to ask you for it since that's how i caught you in that newbie game, then right afterwards you do it anyways, so i came to the conclusion of 3 possibilities.

1) You are town and were going to do it anyway.
2) You are scum and were appeasing what i mentioned earlier about you not being your usual self.
3) There was scum in the neighborhood who saw that and fed it to you.

The ammounf of suspicion on notty's slot was kind of... weird, considering he also did claim some stuff in the hood albeit not everything.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh also Gaiden joined our hood.

[Sakura Hana]

Either way, when did your read on bork change?
I remember i was thinking you both were scum together because i had independent scumreads on both of you and you were townreading him

[Sakura Hana]

He didn't explain it, tho i thought the same thing when i saw 7 spellcard activations then a vote on notscience. He said that he needed exactly 7 more votes to be lynched and that he activated 7 doll spellcards.

[Sakura Hana]

He also mentioned he had a spellcard that created 3 clones of himself on the vote count with only one being real, but he couldn't react on time to use it, among other vigging and not vigging abilities.

[Sakura Hana]

I realize bork's spellcards can allude to people's flavors (look at his scarlet spellcard obviously locked pie's day cards).

P-Edit: Yes, well he didn't exactly full claim, he just said that "the strongest town pr just got likely quicklynched" and mentioned the stuff he had.

[Sakura Hana]

Chocola cannot declare any spellcards during this Day Phase.

Huh, didnt ffery replace Chocola

[Sakura Hana]

Huh weird, i thought it said pie below the scarlet one.

[Sakura Hana]

So, kagami catches my attention.

Weren't you talking earlier about "how is gaiden towneir than kagami"?

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura: Is Pie scum?

Not really sure, her play has been underwhelming this game but she's been busy irl. That being said, yesterday notty was pushing pie in the neighborhood due to her lack of contribution in which pie yelled at her due to being unable to catch up due to irl problems (which i can vouch they are true), while i know her irl situation is a problem that doesn't help me read her... My initial townread was because she invited me to the neighborhood, but even that is fading...

[Sakura Hana]

in which

notty

yelled at her due

Fixed that for me.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh wait pie yelled at notty, im getting my own post confused because i used "her" there, well anyway point is, notty wanted pie to catch up, but pie was unable, but she still did catch up today so...

[Sakura Hana]

12. borkinator
Why the fuck did you have to roll scum this game

Ok, good to know.

[Sakura Hana]

Muffins are better than cupcakes 100%

[Sakura Hana]

There was literally no reason to confirm yourself as town at this juncture

I said i would be confirmed town by day 2 right?

[Sakura Hana]

After thinking it over this is where im currently at for possible scum: bork/Feysal/GIF/???

Feysal tried to discredit my muffin townread pretty much the same as bork did, this would heavily point towards muffin being town.
The last scum could be keyboardsmash as pointed out earlier.
GIF's reads this game are... really underwhelming and i dont understand the Feysal townread atm.

[Sakura Hana]

Who the hell shot muffin :<

[Sakura Hana]

What the hell did GIF start the day with a vote on him?

[Sakura Hana]

What happened to your scumread of me?

It went away because i figured it didnt make sense if the scumteam was who i thought it was, but i figured i was going in the wrong track, so you're back to being a scumread.

[Sakura Hana]

Also before i forget.

Earth "Impurity Within One's Body" - bork

[Sakura Hana]

My vote is on Bork in spirit. I'll hold off on voting in case Bork has another quickhammer up his sleeve.

I'm checking that now.

[Sakura Hana]

Bork has no spellcards remaining, so at the very least i dont expect any future shenanigans from him....

[Sakura Hana]

Also due to some stuff in the SDM im now suspicious of pie again.

[Sakura Hana]

how would you say Gaiden's been in the SDM?

He's been better than pie in the short time he's been there...
pie was supposed to be doing something but didnt and apparently isn't scumreading bork, despite him claiming scum?

I'm really confused...

[Sakura Hana]

Like when i posted my scum list she disagreed with the other 2, and was unsure on bork

Who the hell says that about confirmed scum @_@

P-Edit: But pie's last post here says "oh good to know i was right about bork" or something, it doesn't add up.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok apparently pie did do the thing she was supposed to do... ok nevermind.
P-Edit:

I'm the quicktopic spy, actually. I was reading the SDM last night and Gaiden said he scanned you as scum, how do you defend yourself?

This is impossible, because 1, i'm not scum, and 2, i had confirmation from FG that it was impossible for Spies to exist since that was my first thoughts earlier when i thought ffery was spying on it.

[Sakura Hana]

Also we've been wondering if it's possible that kagami got redirected to muffin.

[Sakura Hana]

Would have probably failed.

Huh?

[Sakura Hana]

You've confirmed that it should have succeeded last night in the absence of protection.

Didn't know it was related to your vig. Now I do!

[Sakura Hana]

He didnt even consult or anything with us before doing that...

[Sakura Hana]

I am going to get on my knees and apologize. I am sorry for wasting your time.

Don't worry, everyone messes up at some point, and you're still my favorite mod, it just happened.
All I hope is at least another Touhou Upick to make up for this so we can have our fun and this game will be forgotten.

[Sakura Hana]

While the idea of scum not having a traditional NK was cool, the problem was that scum could easily quicklynch town and be unstoppable. That's pretty much what broke the game imo.

[Sakura Hana]

wow, i knew about the first DotS game, didn't know they made another one on DotA 2.