Micro 551 — Vanilla-Free Greatest Idea Mafia — Game Over!
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Why didn't I what?In post 19, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 18, Soren wrote:VOTE: Hinduragi for building a counter wagon
Also that doesn't make sense if you want a flash wagon, why not vote lucky which already has a mini wagon on it?
why didn'tyou?- Soren
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That doesn't make him town.
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You know mafia is not the only anti-town faction in this game right? His other cards could have been sk, alien, werewolve etc.In post 27, Hinduragi wrote:It's likely the other two are anti-mafia.
You speaking from past games or how did you get two sets? o.oIn post 27, Hinduragi wrote:My first set of cards was mafia, town, town. My next set was town, town, town.
Nope.In post 27, Hinduragi wrote:He's more likely to be town however small those odds may be.- Soren
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?In post 47, Vedith wrote:In post 46, gummmybear wrote:That's because he's posted nothing at all. What is the point of this wagon on someone who's not even checked in?
You need to get out.- Soren
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According to the special notes, it is at least two town players.In post 98, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:at least 5 people must be town for the game to be valid, correct?
hm. i suppose i'd be fine lynching from {chaotic, gummy, aphix, soren, suzune}. let's narrow this down a bit. vedith, lucky, hindu - what are your thoughts on those people?- Soren
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Hindu is pretty town. Though I don't like him pressing on Lucky for taking 10 minutes to make another post instead of 5. People have other priorities. Regardless he acknowledges that it is a dead end and moves on.
I'm okayish with what Suzune is doing so far. But not enough for a town read.
Vedith is mainly just cheekily responding to people who wants to lynch him.
Aphix' policy lynch seems to be based on a personal grudge. Yeah, not following that.
ETL seems to be keeping a level head in all this.
Lucky discarded a mafia card and claims to have gotten a werewolf and compulsive childkiller card. Looking at how anti town the compulsive childkiller is, I can see how Lucky would choose that for his alignment instead. But that would only be the case if his other card is town. But since he got a werewolf card I can easily see him taking the werewolf alignment and taking the compulsive childkiller card so that he gets a free kill if there is an innocent child.
Anyways this is just speculations at this point as I would need to know what his werewolf card is first to determine whether his werewolf role/ability is more favorable.- Soren
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Quite a few people dies.In post 119, Hinduragi wrote:Vote: Chaotic Neutrality
In all honesty, I want to see how this game's night phase plays out. Is it usually chaos? Sounds fun.
That does make sense, but I'm screwing my own mind over with wifom.In post 120, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 118, Soren wrote:Lucky discarded a mafia card and claims to have gotten a werewolf and compulsive childkiller card. Looking at how anti town the compulsive childkiller is, I can see how Lucky would choose that for his alignment instead. But that would only be the case if his other card is town. But since he got a werewolf card I can easily see him taking the werewolf alignment and taking the compulsive childkiller card so that he gets a free kill if there is an innocent child.
from my POV i don't see the second situation as a choice lucky would likely make because it's not useful compared to his discard, if he really wanted to be an anti-town faction. he could have taken mafia and used the ww card as the ability. compulsive child killer is a risky card to claim, and his claiming it makes him more likely to be telling the truth.
So the step here was that you can't scum hunt so you'll rely on people's flips... It's a logical process I would say since scum hunting in this game is very hard. Especially with multiple scum factions, everyone is going to want to find other scum teams. So it's hard to say whether that is coming from town or scum trying to work out scum from other scum teams.In post 122, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:ok, i dont really expect to make it to endgame here, and my usual scum hunting methods are useless. i probably should have taken mafia but meh.
i'm a dayvigand bowser says my shot wont end the day. so how about we make this useful and yall tell me whose flip you think would be the most helpful.
I'll say that your claim is bit premature, but nothing that I will nail you for. Lots of greatest idea mafia games ends up with everyone mass claiming. Something which I find takes the joy out of this setup.
What would vedith's flip tell you?In post 123, Hinduragi wrote:Uhhh, vedith's flip would be most helpful but I'm not confident about any reads right now, man. You should've saved that shit for later LOL. Do you have infinite shots?
What logical process did you take to assume that there is a chance he is scum? Since everyone in this game has a chance of being scum.In post 124, Lucky2u wrote:oh... I guess we're moving to the speed round then...
I'd say Vedith's. it ends that conversation right now and there is a chance he is scum.
I'm going to assume you're asking me that because I misinterpreted it. Please explain to me your policy lynch because you've haven't really stated why Vedith is a policy lynch.In post 134, aphix wrote:In post 118, Soren wrote:
Aphix' policy lynch seems to be based on a personal grudge. Yeah, not following that.
Alright. Please explain to me in your own words what you think my policy lynch is here ... And explain how you think it's a personal grudge?- Soren
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What is the policy lynch founded upon?In post 137, Chaotic Neutrality wrote:In post 127, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 125, Hinduragi wrote:Really REALLY don't think that now was a good time to claim that. At all. We're like 2 fuckin days into this game. Too soon. Hell, one of these guys even has 2 posts. TWO. I can't make a decision based off of that.
Normally I would have, but I don't really take these Great/Greater/Greatest idea games too seriously. Might as well make it interesting. I don't mind waiting a few days.
I would be on board with a Vedith policyvig but that wouldn't tell us anything. Not worth it in a micro.
Isn't it still possible for a dayvig to be scum this game?- Soren
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He must the dayvig for his ability. So his alignment would be determined by his other card.In post 138, Suzune wrote:According to the card list there are two day vig townies in the deck and one day vig mafia so sure it is possible for them to be scum.- Soren
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Answer the question.In post 142, Lucky2u wrote:In post 136, Soren wrote:What logical process did you take to assume that there is a chance he is scum? Since everyone in this game has a chance of being scum.
are you playing this game based on math?- Soren
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Because of what Vedith said in 52, sounds like a personal grudge. And you didn't respond nor deny it. Answer my question too please.In post 158, aphix wrote:Soren answer my question.
Not exactly the best way to think about things is it.In post 167, aphix wrote:I'm pretty confident I'm going to always think he's scum. Constantly and forever.
I like your don't exactly explain your vote on hindu, and in the same post you explain a scum read on someone else.In post 179, gummmybear wrote:Hinduragi's scum of some flavour. VOTE: Hinduragi
ETL's claim and asking for input for his Dayvig shot doesn't feel town to me, but it could be a playstyle/opinion difference. I think there's more scum/3p motivation to doing such a thing though.
I like this.In post 188, Chaotic Neutrality wrote:VOTE: gummmybear for attempting a Vedith quicklynch and voting the most vocal player for no reason- Soren
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Okay sorry. I did read your post before but I guess I didn't take it all in. I understand your reasoning now. I can see why you want to lynch him, I feel the same way too about policy lynching people who doesn't provide much to the game on day 1.In post 198, aphix wrote:Your right Soren. I never addressed 52. 104.
Also I have answered it. He's just scummy. All the time. He provides no benefit to the game. And is anti town. He's continued that play here.
Also Soren. I really hope you are just playing dumb for reactions.- Soren
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I was in a bad mood last night and ended up doing something stupid and shot aphix rashly. Sorry for that. I shouldn't play when I'm not in the right mood. However, I didn't just shoot him randomly. I have been contemplating who I should shoot and since ETL already claimed dayvig and was manning the front with a shot, I thought I would see who he'll shoot first and how that'll affect my decision. When I saw that his shot flipped town, and with only 3 posts behind his back we won't learn much from that flip. So I wanted to shoot and got trigger happy because life wants to bite my ass, and I should of waited and did a bit more thinking and get a clearer approach of what to do, but my emotions took over me and I just decided to shoot. So why did I choose aphix? He's been wanting to policy lynch Vedith all day, sure I like the policy lynch but I didn't see him do much else with offering his reads. I like policy lynch on day 1 in so far as it doesn't blindside you to scum hunt and work the game out. Then when ETL called aphix out to back up his points for wanting to policy lynch vedith. Aphix makes his 210, which just screams bad and full of omgus. Not only that, he continues to not want to provide evidence to support his reason and deflects it with voting ETL. And then he removes his vote in his 222, but then continues to attack ETL in his 225 and 230. Is he scum reading or not scum reading ETL? Aphix faffing around did not ping town to me. So he was the one I wanted to shoot most.
I understand your guy's reactions. Hindu is pretty much convinced that my play comes from scum and doesn't want to understand me but I can understand that, ETL agrees and doesn't want to understand my actions too, would of liked to see a bit more independent thought from him, but eh, ETL is pretty town, Chaotic Neutrality votes and doesn't comment on it all. Suzune offers a little comment on it and tries to understand as her initial comment is "Why?" and is not eager to lynch me with her stating intent to hammer.
I used town tourist as my alignment and town dayvig as my ability.
Out of all the votes on me, Chaotic's one is the one that pings me the most. Care to explain your thought process a bit more?
VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality- Soren
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I'm not exactly going to complain about my life in the game am I. Nor do I want to put emotions behind my words when I discuss in a game to vent my feelings by letting it out on people, that's totally unnecessary and not something someone should do. But what it did influence, was my own actions and not my words. I try to keep my feelings to myself.In post 268, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:You didn't seem emotional yesterday.
This is a rare game for me because I have never been a dayvig, nor any other roles that has day actions. The difference between this and other games that I have played, is that I have an option to shoot someone during the day, an action that I do not have in any other games. So I do not think that it is a fair comparison that you are trying to make. In other games if I'm in a bad mood, nothing will really be affected because of the absence of a day action. It's new to me that I actually have a day action.
Just because it's uncommon for my emotions to affect my actions, it doesn't mean that it won't happen. This is one instance where it did happened. You have every right to remain skeptical and suspect me using it as an excuse. That comes down to your judgment and that's perfectly fine. But I'm being honest, and hope you can see that.- Soren
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Given that there only requires a minimum of 2 town players. And based on my other greatest idea mafia games, I had a gut feeling that more people would choose scum over town. Which meant, when looking at it mathematically, shooting randomly would yield a higher chance to hit scum. (Not that I shot randomly though)- Soren
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I can see why you would scum read me for that. Thanks for explaining. What do you think of the rest of the things I said so far though?In post 274, Chaotic Neutrality wrote:In post 259, Soren wrote:Out of all the votes on me, Chaotic's one is the one that pings me the most. Care to explain your thought process a bit more?
VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality
You held off telling us you had a dayvig until the other guy shot, and you didn't consult the town at all. Of the two dayvig's you're most likely scum.
There's a difference from saying that someone is scum, to saying that the majority of players in this are likely scum. The former is extrapolating from the latter and forming a scum read based on player actions. I don't see the problem here...? It's like saying that there are two scum in a newbie game, and then when someone is scummy you scum read them.In post 275, Vedith wrote:In post 259, Soren wrote:Out of all the votes on me, Chaotic's one is the one that pings me the most. Care to explain your thought process a bit more?
VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality
In post 273, Soren wrote:Given that there only requires a minimum of 2 town players. And based on my other greatest idea mafia games, I had a gut feeling that more people would choose scum over town. Which meant, when looking at it mathematically, shooting randomly would yield a higher chance to hit scum. (Not that I shot randomly though)
These don't match up. 1 Moment you are explain who you think is scum, the next you are saying that most people are scum.
If you're scum then I can easily see Chaotic as your partner. You vote him after you look like a near to certain lynch.
Tourist and town one shot day vig.In post 276, Vedith wrote:Also Soren, what were the 2 other cards you received?
Same for ETL please.- Soren
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I didn't plan it. I was just online and happen to see that ETL shot, thoughts going through my mind and emotions took over and I ended up shooting too.In post 287, Hinduragi wrote:Soren, what the fuck is your problem? Why did you wait around and refresh the site waiting on the flip just so you could take a shot that you pre-determined BEFORE the flip? What the actual fuck were you thinking- Soren
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It was never my intention to bring outside influence into a game. But it happened and I regret it and I'm trying to make up for it by explaining myself now.In post 289, Hinduragi wrote:Like, if you're going to give up on a game of mafia and go FULL DERP, I expect you to at least play up to that derp and not do a 180 degree turnaround the next morning "because you had a bad day". Life isn't a cake walk. The game's not even fun for me when you bring outside influence like that into a game because then you task everyone with "are you lying or are you just in a bad state of mind".- Soren
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Hindu makes it sound like I was waiting for you to shoot before I shoot. That part wasn't planned.In post 292, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:You mentioned that you were already planning to shoot aphix.- Soren
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I've reached a point where I'm going to have to re evaluate the game to form a stance. So here are my reads list.
Town
Hinduragi - this is easily my strongest town read. It was based on his reactions to my shot, it screamed frustrated town, something that is hard to fake. He's also been actively working the game out, shifting from player to player once he's pushed forward his suspcion to see whether it needs to be pushed further or if it can be dropped, such as the Vedith wagon to the Lucky shenanigan earlier on, to Chaotic when he concluded that Lucky is town, to me and and now to Suzune. This is very town of him and shows that he's plotting himself into the game and wants to work out people's alignment. Also, I believe his recent breadcrumb will soon prove to be town.
ETL - he's already claimed and taking a look at his cards and explanation in his 148, it's quite transparent that he's town. Him dayvigging on day 1 is town, moreso when he needed a way to scum hunt when he acknowledged that his usual methods won't work in this game, as stated in his 122. Additionally, the rest of his instigation in the game rings very town, from his interrogation of aphix to his interaction with me.
Slight Town
Lucky2u - wish i could see more from him and this town lean is based on his claim. His 80 is presenting himself as an open book, something I find pretty town. Rest of it is his card claims, with a compulsive child town card, I can see why he would choose that as his alignment instead of using it as ability. Also, he claimed really early in the game, and with only one compulsive child card in the game, it would of been a very risky claim, especially when he wasn't in any real trouble. Therefore, this is pretty town.
Lean scum
Vedith - general cheekiness at the start of the game does not make him look good. Besides responding to people who wants to policy lynch he's pretty much away from the game, has offered very little opinion of his own. The most he's ever done was ask for people's cards, like his 92 for Lucky and then his 276, and then also trying to work out Hindu's card in his 307. The reason why this pings me is that he pretty much stops when he's figured out what card they have claimed. Almost as if he's scum fishing for cards so he can prepare a fake claim when the need arises while at the same time, it gives off the effect that he's "trying" to work people's alignment out.
Chaotic Neutrality - with only 10 post that doesn't display much, it's hard for me to read him as town. 111 says that scum is guaranteed to be on the wagon, but does not proceed to work out who scum is on there. 218 wants to talk about flips, but doesn't talk after flips has been made. 274 required a prompt from me to get him speaking.
Scum
Suzune - the first 90% of her posts is just speculating setup and some borderline mafia theory here and there. Instances of Suzune speculating setup, here 40 138. Instances of mafia theory 103 (part where she comments about lynching inactives and policy lynch) 144 145 168. I think that this is particular of Suzune's scum game, as scum she treads carefully at the start of the game not really pushing anyone or gathering her thoughts on players, but rather speculate on the setup and spill some mafia theory here and there, it gives her something to talk about while she figures out how she wants to play the game and what angle to tackle at as scum. As town Suzune would point things out and declare if she takes issue with it and whether she thinks its coming from town or scum. She has been particularly vague with her reads so far (till her recent reads list posts), like she's playing rather cautiously, something I find to be a scum trait. Speaking of her reads list, based on my experience with Suzune this struck as something particularly scummy of Suzune. And I'll explain why, many games I'll be sitting on the fence with Suzune, not sure if she's lurking town or cautious scum, and then she'll produce a big post , and that tickles my general inclination to town read someone for putting effort into a big post or she posts something that I deem to be town motivated, only for her to turn out to be scum. So with this read list and given all her previous post I find it rather scummy of Suzune. She's been playing cautiously so far, and hasn't done anything to make people want to town read her, so she decides to put some effort into it to produce a read list. On one side, it helps her get a grasp of the game as scum, it helps her see players more clearly and at the same time it can buy her some town cred for an unprompted read list. Her read list itself, half has substance, the other doesn't. It's okayish but it does tell me what she is thinking of the game right now.
171 is pretty confrontational from Suzune, and I'm getting a gut feel that it's coming from scum!Suzune.
181 I can understand this and I believe it to be true too. However, she did just win a scum game by fooling the town. And this serves no indication about what actual cards she got. Yes she prefers town for now, but she could have just gotten all scum cards giving her no choice in the matter.
VOTE: Suzune
That's L-1, no one hammer. I need to hear from Suzune- Soren
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Suzune is one of the hardest players for me to read but one thing that I have learnt recently is that she reveals the most when there is a case being pushed against her. I presented a case against her and placed her at L-1 to create a situation that would cause her to reveal her hands. She is actually only a slight scum lean for me. And I needed to know whether she is a scum lean worthy enough to be pursued or if she is actually town.- Soren
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What doesn't match up for you?In post 325, Vedith wrote:I mean, read his ISO and tell me if it matches up.
That reads list was forced to justify him voting Suzune.- Soren
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What's the town read on Vedith?In post 331, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Soren, Vedith and Hindu are strong townreads. Chaotic and Lucky should be the next two checks/lynches, with Lucky as priority.
Hope to see yall tomorrow.- Soren
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Ehhh, why pick town mason over something like werewolf cupid?In post 358, Lucky2u wrote:You thought I was claiming to be a town compulsive Childkiller?
Ordinarily I would object to being forced to claim my role, as I don't even have a vote on me. However since I am essentially vanilla and to speed this hunt along, my role card was werewolf mason. Which makes me a town mason. However there are no other masons in this game so I am nothing.- Soren
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I agree that it looks pretty bad. Comes off as very upset that you're pushing him so he just votes you.In post 355, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 352, Lucky2u wrote:ETL that post was clearly pure humour and even came with the disclaimer that I know it means nothing so how am I getting cred? Frankly your tunnel on me has been very ugly for awhile. If we're going to do this then let's do it.
VOTE: ETL
I don't need to wait for results to start discussion. You shouldn't either if your town.
This is incredibly shitty lol... my suspicion of you can hardly be called a tunnel.- Soren
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Can you link me to some post from him that you're reading as town please?In post 338, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 335, Soren wrote:
What's the town read on Vedith?In post 331, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Soren, Vedith and Hindu are strong townreads. Chaotic and Lucky should be the next two checks/lynches, with Lucky as priority.
Hope to see yall tomorrow.
What do you mean? I'm townreading him based on his play.- Soren
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This sounds like you're just finding whatever reasons you can to say that ETL is scum after calling him scum instead of having those reasons first and then scum reading ETL for it.In post 360, Lucky2u wrote:Her reaction to my hammer is such a show. She's looking for low hanging fruit. Her day vig was a fumble, iirc she shot against the consensus, so why did she even ask us to "vote"?
You haven't proven your alignment card I would say. However considering that you claimed rather early on, I would think that it's likely that you're telling the truth.In post 361, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:I didn't shoot against census. I was deciding between suzune and gummy. I stated as such and both were considerable suspects among others. Second, I claimed all my cards and you can check them. I proved my vig, and you know my discard. So my third card proves my alignment. There's only one in the entire list and it's mine.
Ehh, doesn't the logic that you're using to say that you've proven your alignment card apply to Lucky as well?In post 365, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 364, Lucky2u wrote:Claiming a one of a kind card as your alignment doesn't prove your alignment. I'm claiming compulsive child killer as my alignment card and there is only one of that card.By your logic I am town cleared too.The card you are claiming for alignment is something easily thrown away by scum or town players who know this setup (see my previous post on useless investigators) so you risked little by claiming it as your alignment card since if someone had it they probably would have tossed it.
No. You aren't. Because you haven't proven your role card. I have.
Lucky has already claimed all his cards. Werewolf mason, town compulsive child and discarded mafia cupid.In post 380, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:It's easy to claim two cards and switch them for role/alignment. I've proven my role already, so the possibility of my switching them for cred is non-existent. Not so in your case - by the way - you still haven't claimed all of your cards as requested.
Second, you only get aggressive and stupid with me when you're scum and I'm confident in my town reads elsewhere. You're hanging today. End of story.
You make a good point there about proving your role, which will then just leave your alignment. I would substantiate it to say that your alignment is proven, but I would say it's a good argument. One in which doesn't apply to Lucky in this case.
I got town dayvig card.In post 419, Vedith wrote:Well, I think that there is either only 1 team/solo killer left after the no kill last night.
Lucky is only going at you because of what you said about him. I agree that it's wasting the day.
You are still in my town list. This is also down to the fact of your card claim (I believe you said town dayvig) and then Soren stated scum dayvig.
In your situation, I think it would have been a worth while gambit to have claimed scum dayvig with expecting no one else to get it, showing that you received a scum card increasing the chances of 2.
Ash's comment today has really struck me as odd and I'm surprised that no one else has picked up on it. It was rushed and forced as a comment. He's also voting onto CN just to draw easy focus.
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Lucky vs ETL reads town vs town with Lucky on the short end of the argument and making his play look bad for pushing against a pretty strong town read for everyone.
Lucky nor ETL responded to my questions :c
I'm only really interested in lynching Vedith today. Reasons stated in my 317. I might compromise for a Chaotic lynch.
VOTE: Vedith- Soren
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Scum!Vedith continues to ignore and not acknowledge my reasons for him being scum as stated in my 317In post 452, Vedith wrote:You are just saying scum without anything to back it.- Soren
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You said that you had a strong town read on Vedith in your 331. What changed?
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If you're not interested in this game may I suggest that you replace out so we can get someone who will contribute to the game please.In post 414, Chaotic Neutrality wrote:In post 403, Hinduragi wrote:Not liking CN honestly. ISO him and you'll see. Calling for Soren lynch, no vote. Still going off it today. Why? Because vigshot. "if it helps im not guilty" yes, but I think you're likely third party without a kill and don't want to participate in this game anymore.
Vote: CN
Why would you vote your own confirmed not-mafia if you believe that I'm a useless 3rd party with no impact on the game?
TBH I have little interest in setup spec across the board and that's the majority of discussion that's taking place. I imagine these types of games just aren't for me. Reads are hard to get because of the sheer amount of statistics and card-alignment-role type logic being used. I feel stupid for trying to scumhunt in an environment like this when nobody else is really doing that based hardcore on reactions and vote counts, instead preferring card claims which can easily be faked. I could see where that'd be fun but it's not my cup of tea. Live and learn, etc.
I'm currently re-reading to see if I can get a solid read on anyone who's not you. - Soren
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