Micro 551 — Vanilla-Free Greatest Idea Mafia — Game Over!

[Soren]

Hi Suzune!

VOTE: Lucky2u
Wagon wagon wagon

[Soren]

@Marquis

you forgot the discarded cards?

[Soren]

Lol all those town discards

[Soren]

VOTE: Hinduragi for building a counter wagon
Also that doesn't make sense if you want a flash wagon, why not vote lucky which already has a mini wagon on it?

[Soren]

VOTE: Hinduragi for building a counter wagon
Also that doesn't make sense if you want a flash wagon, why not vote lucky which already has a mini wagon on it?

why didn't

you

?

Why didn't I what?

[Soren]

Lucky2u — Mafia Cupid

Lucky wagon is bad and you should feel bad.

That doesn't make him town.

[Soren]

Explain to me how that discard gives him the least chance of being scum.

[Soren]

It's likely the other two are anti-mafia.

You know mafia is not the only anti-town faction in this game right? His other cards could have been sk, alien, werewolve etc.

My first set of cards was mafia, town, town. My next set was town, town, town.

You speaking from past games or how did you get two sets? o.o

He's more likely to be town however small those odds may be.

Nope.

[Soren]

I can see where you're coming from but I don't think it's a strong argument.

[Soren]

It's still a weak argument.

[Soren]

Ok

[Soren]

That's because he's posted nothing at all. What is the point of this wagon on someone who's not even checked in?

You need to get out.

?

[Soren]

Policy lynch him for what?

[Soren]

at least 5 people must be town for the game to be valid, correct?

hm. i suppose i'd be fine lynching from {chaotic, gummy, aphix, soren, suzune}. let's narrow this down a bit. vedith, lucky, hindu - what are your thoughts on those people?

According to the special notes, it is at least two town players.

[Soren]

Hindu is pretty town. Though I don't like him pressing on Lucky for taking 10 minutes to make another post instead of 5. People have other priorities. Regardless he acknowledges that it is a dead end and moves on.
I'm okayish with what Suzune is doing so far. But not enough for a town read.
Vedith is mainly just cheekily responding to people who wants to lynch him.
Aphix' policy lynch seems to be based on a personal grudge. Yeah, not following that.
ETL seems to be keeping a level head in all this.

Lucky discarded a mafia card and claims to have gotten a werewolf and compulsive childkiller card. Looking at how anti town the compulsive childkiller is, I can see how Lucky would choose that for his alignment instead. But that would only be the case if his other card is town. But since he got a werewolf card I can easily see him taking the werewolf alignment and taking the compulsive childkiller card so that he gets a free kill if there is an innocent child.

Anyways this is just speculations at this point as I would need to know what his werewolf card is first to determine whether his werewolf role/ability is more favorable.

[Soren]

Vote: Chaotic Neutrality

In all honesty, I want to see how this game's night phase plays out. Is it usually chaos? Sounds fun.

Quite a few people dies.

Lucky discarded a mafia card and claims to have gotten a werewolf and compulsive childkiller card. Looking at how anti town the compulsive childkiller is, I can see how Lucky would choose that for his alignment instead. But that would only be the case if his other card is town. But since he got a werewolf card I can easily see him taking the werewolf alignment and taking the compulsive childkiller card so that he gets a free kill if there is an innocent child.

from my POV i don't see the second situation as a choice lucky would likely make because it's not useful compared to his discard, if he really wanted to be an anti-town faction. he could have taken mafia and used the ww card as the ability. compulsive child killer is a risky card to claim, and his claiming it makes him more likely to be telling the truth.

That does make sense, but I'm screwing my own mind over with wifom.

ok, i dont really expect to make it to endgame here, and my usual scum hunting methods are useless. i probably should have taken mafia but meh.

i'm a dayvig

and bowser says my shot wont end the day. so how about we make this useful and yall tell me whose flip you think would be the most helpful.

So the step here was that you can't scum hunt so you'll rely on people's flips... It's a logical process I would say since scum hunting in this game is very hard. Especially with multiple scum factions, everyone is going to want to find other scum teams. So it's hard to say whether that is coming from town or scum trying to work out scum from other scum teams.
I'll say that your claim is bit premature, but nothing that I will nail you for. Lots of greatest idea mafia games ends up with everyone mass claiming. Something which I find takes the joy out of this setup.

Uhhh, vedith's flip would be most helpful but I'm not confident about any reads right now, man. You should've saved that shit for later LOL. Do you have infinite shots?

What would vedith's flip tell you?

oh... I guess we're moving to the speed round then...

I'd say Vedith's. it ends that conversation right now and there is a chance he is scum.

What logical process did you take to assume that there is a chance he is scum? Since everyone in this game has a chance of being scum.

Aphix' policy lynch seems to be based on a personal grudge. Yeah, not following that.

Alright. Please explain to me in your own words what you think my policy lynch is here ... And explain how you think it's a personal grudge?

I'm going to assume you're asking me that because I misinterpreted it. Please explain to me your policy lynch because you've haven't really stated why Vedith is a policy lynch.

[Soren]

Really REALLY don't think that now was a good time to claim that. At all. We're like 2 fuckin days into this game. Too soon. Hell, one of these guys even has 2 posts. TWO. I can't make a decision based off of that.

Normally I would have, but I don't really take these Great/Greater/Greatest idea games too seriously. Might as well make it interesting. I don't mind waiting a few days.

I would be on board with a Vedith policyvig but that wouldn't tell us anything. Not worth it in a micro.

Isn't it still possible for a dayvig to be scum this game?

What is the policy lynch founded upon?

[Soren]

According to the card list there are two day vig townies in the deck and one day vig mafia so sure it is possible for them to be scum.

He must the dayvig for his ability. So his alignment would be determined by his other card.

[Soren]

What logical process did you take to assume that there is a chance he is scum? Since everyone in this game has a chance of being scum.

are you playing this game based on math?

Answer the question.

[Soren]

I've been busy, posting later.

[Soren]

Soren answer my question.

Because of what Vedith said in 52, sounds like a personal grudge. And you didn't respond nor deny it. Answer my question too please.

I'm pretty confident I'm going to always think he's scum. Constantly and forever.

Not exactly the best way to think about things is it.

Hinduragi's scum of some flavour. VOTE: Hinduragi

ETL's claim and asking for input for his Dayvig shot doesn't feel town to me, but it could be a playstyle/opinion difference. I think there's more scum/3p motivation to doing such a thing though.

I like your don't exactly explain your vote on hindu, and in the same post you explain a scum read on someone else.

VOTE: gummmybear for attempting a Vedith quicklynch and voting the most vocal player for no reason

I like this.

[Soren]

what will you learn from shooting suzune?

[Soren]

Was thinking you had something more specific in regards to association tells with certain players.

[Soren]

Your right Soren. I never addressed 52. 104.

Also I have answered it. He's just scummy. All the time. He provides no benefit to the game. And is anti town. He's continued that play here.

Also Soren. I really hope you are just playing dumb for reactions.

Okay sorry. I did read your post before but I guess I didn't take it all in. I understand your reasoning now. I can see why you want to lynch him, I feel the same way too about policy lynching people who doesn't provide much to the game on day 1.

[Soren]

well done

[Soren]

My turn.

Kill: aphix

[Soren]

well town's in a bad position now

[Soren]

I was in a bad mood last night and ended up doing something stupid and shot aphix rashly. Sorry for that. I shouldn't play when I'm not in the right mood. However, I didn't just shoot him randomly. I have been contemplating who I should shoot and since ETL already claimed dayvig and was manning the front with a shot, I thought I would see who he'll shoot first and how that'll affect my decision. When I saw that his shot flipped town, and with only 3 posts behind his back we won't learn much from that flip. So I wanted to shoot and got trigger happy because life wants to bite my ass, and I should of waited and did a bit more thinking and get a clearer approach of what to do, but my emotions took over me and I just decided to shoot. So why did I choose aphix? He's been wanting to policy lynch Vedith all day, sure I like the policy lynch but I didn't see him do much else with offering his reads. I like policy lynch on day 1 in so far as it doesn't blindside you to scum hunt and work the game out. Then when ETL called aphix out to back up his points for wanting to policy lynch vedith. Aphix makes his 210, which just screams bad and full of omgus. Not only that, he continues to not want to provide evidence to support his reason and deflects it with voting ETL. And then he removes his vote in his 222, but then continues to attack ETL in his 225 and 230. Is he scum reading or not scum reading ETL? Aphix faffing around did not ping town to me. So he was the one I wanted to shoot most.

I understand your guy's reactions. Hindu is pretty much convinced that my play comes from scum and doesn't want to understand me but I can understand that, ETL agrees and doesn't want to understand my actions too, would of liked to see a bit more independent thought from him, but eh, ETL is pretty town, Chaotic Neutrality votes and doesn't comment on it all. Suzune offers a little comment on it and tries to understand as her initial comment is "Why?" and is not eager to lynch me with her stating intent to hammer.

I used town tourist as my alignment and town dayvig as my ability.

Out of all the votes on me, Chaotic's one is the one that pings me the most. Care to explain your thought process a bit more?
VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality

[Soren]

I was in a bad mood and it affected my actions. My bad.

[Soren]

I wouldn't say so, no.

[Soren]

It's uncharacteristic to be in a bad mood?

[Soren]

It's uncharacteristic because it's not common for me to be in a bad mood?

[Soren]

You didn't seem emotional yesterday.

I'm not exactly going to complain about my life in the game am I. Nor do I want to put emotions behind my words when I discuss in a game to vent my feelings by letting it out on people, that's totally unnecessary and not something someone should do. But what it did influence, was my own actions and not my words. I try to keep my feelings to myself.

This is a rare game for me because I have never been a dayvig, nor any other roles that has day actions. The difference between this and other games that I have played, is that I have an option to shoot someone during the day, an action that I do not have in any other games. So I do not think that it is a fair comparison that you are trying to make. In other games if I'm in a bad mood, nothing will really be affected because of the absence of a day action. It's new to me that I actually have a day action.

Just because it's uncommon for my emotions to affect my actions, it doesn't mean that it won't happen. This is one instance where it did happened. You have every right to remain skeptical and suspect me using it as an excuse. That comes down to your judgment and that's perfectly fine. But I'm being honest, and hope you can see that.

[Soren]

Given that there only requires a minimum of 2 town players. And based on my other greatest idea mafia games, I had a gut feeling that more people would choose scum over town. Which meant, when looking at it mathematically, shooting randomly would yield a higher chance to hit scum. (Not that I shot randomly though)

[Soren]

Out of all the votes on me, Chaotic's one is the one that pings me the most. Care to explain your thought process a bit more?
VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality

You held off telling us you had a dayvig until the other guy shot, and you didn't consult the town at all. Of the two dayvig's you're most likely scum.

I can see why you would scum read me for that. Thanks for explaining. What do you think of the rest of the things I said so far though?

Out of all the votes on me, Chaotic's one is the one that pings me the most. Care to explain your thought process a bit more?
VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality

Given that there only requires a minimum of 2 town players. And based on my other greatest idea mafia games, I had a gut feeling that more people would choose scum over town. Which meant, when looking at it mathematically, shooting randomly would yield a higher chance to hit scum. (Not that I shot randomly though)

These don't match up. 1 Moment you are explain who you think is scum, the next you are saying that most people are scum.
If you're scum then I can easily see Chaotic as your partner. You vote him after you look like a near to certain lynch.

There's a difference from saying that someone is scum, to saying that the majority of players in this are likely scum. The former is extrapolating from the latter and forming a scum read based on player actions. I don't see the problem here...? It's like saying that there are two scum in a newbie game, and then when someone is scummy you scum read them.

Also Soren, what were the 2 other cards you received?
Same for ETL please.

Tourist and town one shot day vig.

[Soren]

Soren, what the fuck is your problem? Why did you wait around and refresh the site waiting on the flip just so you could take a shot that you pre-determined BEFORE the flip? What the actual fuck were you thinking

I didn't plan it. I was just online and happen to see that ETL shot, thoughts going through my mind and emotions took over and I ended up shooting too.

[Soren]

Like, if you're going to give up on a game of mafia and go FULL DERP, I expect you to at least play up to that derp and not do a 180 degree turnaround the next morning "because you had a bad day". Life isn't a cake walk. The game's not even fun for me when you bring outside influence like that into a game because then you task everyone with "are you lying or are you just in a bad state of mind".

It was never my intention to bring outside influence into a game. But it happened and I regret it and I'm trying to make up for it by explaining myself now.

[Soren]

You mentioned that you were already planning to shoot aphix.

Hindu makes it sound like I was waiting for you to shoot before I shoot. That part wasn't planned.

[Soren]

I've reached a point where I'm going to have to re evaluate the game to form a stance. So here are my reads list.

Town
Hinduragi - this is easily my strongest town read. It was based on his reactions to my shot, it screamed frustrated town, something that is hard to fake. He's also been actively working the game out, shifting from player to player once he's pushed forward his suspcion to see whether it needs to be pushed further or if it can be dropped, such as the Vedith wagon to the Lucky shenanigan earlier on, to Chaotic when he concluded that Lucky is town, to me and and now to Suzune. This is very town of him and shows that he's plotting himself into the game and wants to work out people's alignment. Also, I believe his recent breadcrumb will soon prove to be town.

ETL - he's already claimed and taking a look at his cards and explanation in his 148, it's quite transparent that he's town. Him dayvigging on day 1 is town, moreso when he needed a way to scum hunt when he acknowledged that his usual methods won't work in this game, as stated in his 122. Additionally, the rest of his instigation in the game rings very town, from his interrogation of aphix to his interaction with me.

Slight Town
Lucky2u - wish i could see more from him and this town lean is based on his claim. His 80 is presenting himself as an open book, something I find pretty town. Rest of it is his card claims, with a compulsive child town card, I can see why he would choose that as his alignment instead of using it as ability. Also, he claimed really early in the game, and with only one compulsive child card in the game, it would of been a very risky claim, especially when he wasn't in any real trouble. Therefore, this is pretty town.


Lean scum
Vedith - general cheekiness at the start of the game does not make him look good. Besides responding to people who wants to policy lynch he's pretty much away from the game, has offered very little opinion of his own. The most he's ever done was ask for people's cards, like his 92 for Lucky and then his 276, and then also trying to work out Hindu's card in his 307. The reason why this pings me is that he pretty much stops when he's figured out what card they have claimed. Almost as if he's scum fishing for cards so he can prepare a fake claim when the need arises while at the same time, it gives off the effect that he's "trying" to work people's alignment out.

Chaotic Neutrality - with only 10 post that doesn't display much, it's hard for me to read him as town. 111 says that scum is guaranteed to be on the wagon, but does not proceed to work out who scum is on there. 218 wants to talk about flips, but doesn't talk after flips has been made. 274 required a prompt from me to get him speaking.

Scum
Suzune - the first 90% of her posts is just speculating setup and some borderline mafia theory here and there. Instances of Suzune speculating setup, here 40 138. Instances of mafia theory 103 (part where she comments about lynching inactives and policy lynch) 144 145 168. I think that this is particular of Suzune's scum game, as scum she treads carefully at the start of the game not really pushing anyone or gathering her thoughts on players, but rather speculate on the setup and spill some mafia theory here and there, it gives her something to talk about while she figures out how she wants to play the game and what angle to tackle at as scum. As town Suzune would point things out and declare if she takes issue with it and whether she thinks its coming from town or scum. She has been particularly vague with her reads so far (till her recent reads list posts), like she's playing rather cautiously, something I find to be a scum trait. Speaking of her reads list, based on my experience with Suzune this struck as something particularly scummy of Suzune. And I'll explain why, many games I'll be sitting on the fence with Suzune, not sure if she's lurking town or cautious scum, and then she'll produce a big post , and that tickles my general inclination to town read someone for putting effort into a big post or she posts something that I deem to be town motivated, only for her to turn out to be scum. So with this read list and given all her previous post I find it rather scummy of Suzune. She's been playing cautiously so far, and hasn't done anything to make people want to town read her, so she decides to put some effort into it to produce a read list. On one side, it helps her get a grasp of the game as scum, it helps her see players more clearly and at the same time it can buy her some town cred for an unprompted read list. Her read list itself, half has substance, the other doesn't. It's okayish but it does tell me what she is thinking of the game right now.
171 is pretty confrontational from Suzune, and I'm getting a gut feel that it's coming from scum!Suzune.
181 I can understand this and I believe it to be true too. However, she did just win a scum game by fooling the town. And this serves no indication about what actual cards she got. Yes she prefers town for now, but she could have just gotten all scum cards giving her no choice in the matter.

VOTE: Suzune

That's L-1, no one hammer. I need to hear from Suzune

[Soren]

Dude why. I said not to hammer until I hear from Suzune. Sigh.

[Soren]

Suzune is one of the hardest players for me to read but one thing that I have learnt recently is that she reveals the most when there is a case being pushed against her. I presented a case against her and placed her at L-1 to create a situation that would cause her to reveal her hands. She is actually only a slight scum lean for me. And I needed to know whether she is a scum lean worthy enough to be pursued or if she is actually town.

[Soren]

At the very least Lucky, you could have stated intent to hammer.

[Soren]

I mean, read his ISO and tell me if it matches up.
That reads list was forced to justify him voting Suzune.

What doesn't match up for you?

[Soren]

Soren, Vedith and Hindu are strong townreads. Chaotic and Lucky should be the next two checks/lynches, with Lucky as priority.

Hope to see yall tomorrow.

What's the town read on Vedith?

[Soren]

You thought I was claiming to be a town compulsive Childkiller?

Ordinarily I would object to being forced to claim my role, as I don't even have a vote on me. However since I am essentially vanilla and to speed this hunt along, my role card was werewolf mason. Which makes me a town mason. However there are no other masons in this game so I am nothing.

Ehhh, why pick town mason over something like werewolf cupid?

[Soren]

ETL that post was clearly pure humour and even came with the disclaimer that I know it means nothing so how am I getting cred? Frankly your tunnel on me has been very ugly for awhile. If we're going to do this then let's do it.

VOTE: ETL

I don't need to wait for results to start discussion. You shouldn't either if your town.

This is incredibly shitty lol... my suspicion of you can hardly be called a tunnel.

I agree that it looks pretty bad. Comes off as very upset that you're pushing him so he just votes you.

[Soren]

Lucky can you explain why you hammered especially when I explicitly stated to not hammer until I heard from Suzune

[Soren]

Soren, Vedith and Hindu are strong townreads. Chaotic and Lucky should be the next two checks/lynches, with Lucky as priority.

Hope to see yall tomorrow.

What's the town read on Vedith?

What do you mean? I'm townreading him based on his play.

Can you link me to some post from him that you're reading as town please?

[Soren]

Her reaction to my hammer is such a show. She's looking for low hanging fruit. Her day vig was a fumble, iirc she shot against the consensus, so why did she even ask us to "vote"?

This sounds like you're just finding whatever reasons you can to say that ETL is scum after calling him scum instead of having those reasons first and then scum reading ETL for it.

I didn't shoot against census. I was deciding between suzune and gummy. I stated as such and both were considerable suspects among others. Second, I claimed all my cards and you can check them. I proved my vig, and you know my discard. So my third card proves my alignment. There's only one in the entire list and it's mine.

You haven't proven your alignment card I would say. However considering that you claimed rather early on, I would think that it's likely that you're telling the truth.

Claiming a one of a kind card as your alignment doesn't prove your alignment. I'm claiming compulsive child killer as my alignment card and there is only one of that card.

By your logic I am town cleared too.

The card you are claiming for alignment is something easily thrown away by scum or town players who know this setup (see my previous post on useless investigators) so you risked little by claiming it as your alignment card since if someone had it they probably would have tossed it.

No. You aren't. Because you haven't proven your role card. I have.

Ehh, doesn't the logic that you're using to say that you've proven your alignment card apply to Lucky as well?

It's easy to claim two cards and switch them for role/alignment. I've proven my role already, so the possibility of my switching them for cred is non-existent. Not so in your case - by the way - you still haven't claimed all of your cards as requested.

Second, you only get aggressive and stupid with me when you're scum and I'm confident in my town reads elsewhere. You're hanging today. End of story.

Lucky has already claimed all his cards. Werewolf mason, town compulsive child and discarded mafia cupid.
You make a good point there about proving your role, which will then just leave your alignment. I would substantiate it to say that your alignment is proven, but I would say it's a good argument. One in which doesn't apply to Lucky in this case.

Well, I think that there is either only 1 team/solo killer left after the no kill last night.

Lucky is only going at you because of what you said about him. I agree that it's wasting the day.

You are still in my town list. This is also down to the fact of your card claim (I believe you said town dayvig) and then Soren stated scum dayvig.
In your situation, I think it would have been a worth while gambit to have claimed scum dayvig with expecting no one else to get it, showing that you received a scum card increasing the chances of 2.

Ash's comment today has really struck me as odd and I'm surprised that no one else has picked up on it. It was rushed and forced as a comment. He's also voting onto CN just to draw easy focus.

I got town dayvig card.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Lucky vs ETL reads town vs town with Lucky on the short end of the argument and making his play look bad for pushing against a pretty strong town read for everyone.
Lucky nor ETL responded to my questions :c

I'm only really interested in lynching Vedith today. Reasons stated in my 317. I might compromise for a Chaotic lynch.

VOTE: Vedith

[Soren]

Scum response ^

[Soren]

Scum forgetting his "scum reads".

[Soren]

Vedith continues to do nothing to progress the game state.

[Soren]

You are just saying scum without anything to back it.

Scum!Vedith continues to ignore and not acknowledge my reasons for him being scum as stated in my 317

[Soren]

ugh this game is stalling.

VOTE: Vedith

You said that you had a strong town read on Vedith in your 331. What changed?

[Soren]

Lynch it guys.

[Soren]

I would like to point out that Vedith is still not voting for anyone.

[Soren]

If you guys are scared of a misslynch we can just no lynch today and have a better chance at lynching scum tomorrow.

[Soren]

Not liking CN honestly. ISO him and you'll see. Calling for Soren lynch, no vote. Still going off it today. Why? Because vigshot. "if it helps im not guilty" yes, but I think you're likely third party without a kill and don't want to participate in this game anymore.

Vote: CN

Why would you vote your own confirmed not-mafia if you believe that I'm a useless 3rd party with no impact on the game?

TBH I have little interest in setup spec across the board and that's the majority of discussion that's taking place. I imagine these types of games just aren't for me. Reads are hard to get because of the sheer amount of statistics and card-alignment-role type logic being used. I feel stupid for trying to scumhunt in an environment like this when nobody else is really doing that based hardcore on reactions and vote counts, instead preferring card claims which can easily be faked. I could see where that'd be fun but it's not my cup of tea. Live and learn, etc.

I'm currently re-reading to see if I can get a solid read on anyone who's not you.

If you're not interested in this game may I suggest that you replace out so we can get someone who will contribute to the game please.

[Soren]

so what. i think he's town.

p-edit: NO. NO NL.

Vedith is back to being a town read...?
A town read which I've asked you to explained twice but you have failed to respond.

[Soren]

Urgh what is Lucky doing this game. I'm not seeing any town motivation and just getting upset when ETL pushed for his lynched earlier.

[Soren]

Would scum!Vedith not care about the outcome?

[Soren]

Four votes on four different people... This is a mess.

In fairness, this was Lucky's last comment.
I think he's had the same effect as CN (Although CN is staying town for me).

Urgh what is Lucky doing this game. I'm not seeing any town motivation and just getting upset when ETL pushed for his lynched earlier.

So what's your opinion on him again? Do you think Lucky is scum or no?

His claim at the start of the game rings town to me. But his actions in the game is screaming bad play which is not giving me town vibes. I'll just write lucky off as bad town.

[Soren]

Soren I need updated reasons why Vedith is scum. It's been 200 posts since your reasons in 317 and those were weak then and are weaker now. I also realized I have no idea what your read is on anyone else but Vedith.

How do you mention my 317 and then say that you don't know my read on anyone else? All my reads are there.
Vedith is still scum. He's still not voting for anyone. His lylo post doesn't give him any town cred, that's just him saving his ass. More importantly if he was town he would have claimed his cards at that point instead of resorting to making a post about mylo. He's generated a lot of noise without saying much. Calls people scum without explaining it and calls CN town without explaining it in his 498. Tell me how any of what he's doing is town?

Who's in favor of NL?

If you guys aren't going to lynch Vedith I don't mind no lynch.

those last few posts from hindu are weird as fuck man...

super weird.

How so? I see town frustration.

Lyncher can classify as self aligned (so the result as an alignment card would be up to mod discretion) or as a role by itself.

Either way

I don't really think ETL is town

but she's also helped town with her one dayvig which means she's

definitely not anti town.

Probably wouldn't get much out of that lynch.

If you're voting Hind you're prob scum. I'm looking at you, Lucky.

So you're saying ETL is scum, helping town?

[Soren]

VOTE: No Lynch
That's L-1

[Soren]

No change because their play has remained mostly consistent.

[Soren]

ETL why are you against no lynch?

[Soren]

ETL why are you against no lynch?

[Soren]

ETL why are you against no lynch?

because it doesn't help us any. it just continues the stagnation of the game. it's not a step forward. the only reason i would support a no lynch is if we are guaranteed additional information based on night actions and know the number of scum in the game to where a no lynch puts things in our favor. i dont see the benefits in this situation.

No lynch before a mylo is good because it helps narrow downs our list of scumpects. Assuming there is a night kill and/or power roles gain information in the night.

[Soren]

No lynch before a mylo is good because it helps narrow downs our list of scumpects.

How does it narrow anything down?

power roles gain information in the night.

And we've gotten no useful results from last night, most everyone has claimed in some fashion. What makes you think it will be any better tomorrow?

You're not thinking about the game logically. You're acting out of fear.

Hindu, I'm not an idiot, so please don't speak me like I am. No one asked you anything about anything. I asked Soren to explain why he wants a NL because I don't and I think it's stupid.

Don't answer unless your name is Soren.

Oh boy, looks like I actually need to explain this. You're right we didn't get anything useful last night and it's not something to be relied upon, but it is something that can happen. We did at the very least learn that Chaotic is not mafia.

Consider the following:
4 players
3 town 1 mafias
Let's assume that town has no idea who is mafia in this scenario. If they lynch wrong they would lose. They have a 1 in 3 chance in lynching mafia. However, if they no lynch and mafia kills in the night, this narrows down who mafia could be. Leaving 2 town and 1 mafia. Now town has 1 in 2 chance of lynching a mafia. They have better odds.

Similarly, no lynching will yield us a similar situation in this game. Vedith laid out the scenario rather well in his 474. If there is a scum team of two, and we lynch wrong today we will lose. There are other scenarios such as one scum left or two scum in different factions, the former more likely than the latter since there was no night kill. I'm going to assume that there is an alien faction in the game holding off their kill, I don't know if it's one or two scum left in that. If it's one, then we won't lose if we lynch wrong. But the risk is if there is two scum left, we would lose if we lynch wrong.

[Soren]

I'm assuming you're a Jack of all trade. Doesn't clear you as town though.

I'm wondering who would kill ETL. Hindu would of been the better kill since ETL is essentially a vanilla town. But I guess that means scum are not mafia aligned. Would Lucky kill ETL as scum? Would it be too obvious since ETL was the only one pushing for him.

Vedith still hasn't posted anything that would make me think he is town. For me it's between Vedith and Lucky. Chaotic is lynch bait for lurking at this point.

[Soren]

Scratch that Chaotic read. If there is one scum team and assuming that they tried to kill CN night 1 but was protected by Vedith, he must be town.

Hmmm, and assuming there is one scum team, then Vedith can't be scum since he protected CN. He could be lying about his actions though..

[Soren]

If I accept those, then that would leave Lucky as scum.

[Soren]

I'll wait to vote since 3 votes is a hammer.

[Soren]

Vedith if you are a Jack of all trade can you explain to me why you didn't use your investigate ability first?
And explain your actions, I don't follow the Chaotic protect.

[Soren]

Though I suppose scum killing a lurker as their first kill isn't too bad of a choice.

[Soren]

Who do you think is scum, Lucky?

[Soren]

You mean alignment card.

[Soren]

There's only one town Jack of all trade card

[Soren]

So Vedith is scum lying about his role card?

[Soren]

Yes so we can finally lynch Vedith after all this time

[Soren]

So I was right about scum vedith asking for people's card, and didn't claim when he was at L-1 so he could prepare for this fakeclaim.

[Soren]

Judas is the one that starts as townie and gets turned into mafia if they get lynched, right Hindu?

[Soren]

How did you get saulus and Judas mixed up, Hindu?

[Soren]

I'm guessing Vedith is alien? Since no kill on night 1.

[Soren]

So Vedith, why did you decide to kill ETL?

[Soren]

How did you get saulus and Judas mixed up, Hindu?

Jewish names or something and they're basically the same role reversed. I've got serious adrenaline right now and I'm feeling the bloodlust in the 1v1. I really want this and I'm very excited. If you've ever played a shooter game and you're the last one left alive vs. a bunch of people and you have to make plays, that's what this feels like. I fucking love this but I'm also very very prone to mistakes posting as fast as possible when I do it

hmmmm

[Soren]

I'm most likely going to vote Vedith. He's my scum read all game and I can understand Hindu's actions. But I'll sit on this for a day or so to process this information and make sure it's the right vote.

[Soren]

I'm most likely going to vote Vedith. He's my scum read all game and I can understand Hindu's actions. But I'll sit on this for a day or so to process this information and make sure it's the right vote.

Thanks for confirming to be his partner.
As long as Lucky and CN vote right, we vote you tomorrow.

I think you mean when they lynch Hindu and he flips town and we lynch you tomorrow.

[Soren]

Look Vedith you're not winning this. You've been scummy all game. You ask people for their cards but gave no further analysis or comment on them. You just accepted it and probably noted it down on your scumpad so you can prepare for a fakeclaim. If you were town you would at least question it. Also when you were put at L-1 yesterday the normal thing to do would be to claim your cards. But guess what, you didn't. Why? Because you're scum and didn't want to claim yet without enough information to make sure you make the right fake claim. Instead you resorted to posting some misslynch babble in hopes to save your ass. Which paid off so good job on that part.

CN is town. - Doc night 1 (no kill)
Soren is town. - RB night 2 (1 kill)

So unless someone has any other reason why a kill would or wouldn't go through, it's an automatic win and scum are in Lucky and/or Hinduragi

And these results you're making so many assumptions. So what if you saved CN on night 1? Doesn't confirm him as town. He could be scum from a different faction. And also there could be an alien faction which explains a no kill.

And you thinking I'm town because you role blocked me but a kill also went through is you slipping. Because here you assume there is only one scum. Why would you assume that? Because you're the last scum. Nice slip.

[Soren]

Look Vedith you're not winning this. You've been scummy all game. You ask people for their cards but gave no further analysis or comment on them. You just accepted it and probably noted it down on your scumpad so you can prepare for a fakeclaim. If you were town you would at least question it. Also when you were put at L-1 yesterday the normal thing to do would be to claim your cards. But guess what, you didn't. Why? Because you're scum and didn't want to claim yet without enough information to make sure you make the right fake claim. Instead you resorted to posting some misslynch babble in hopes to save your ass. Which paid off so good job on that part.

CN is town. - Doc night 1 (no kill)
Soren is town. - RB night 2 (1 kill)

So unless someone has any other reason why a kill would or wouldn't go through, it's an automatic win and scum are in Lucky and/or Hinduragi

And these results you're making so many assumptions. So what if you saved CN on night 1? Doesn't confirm him as town. He could be scum from a different faction. And also there could be an alien faction which explains a no kill.

And you thinking I'm town because you role blocked me but a kill also went through is you slipping. Because here you assume there is only one scum. Why would you assume that? Because you're the last scum. Nice slip.

True. But Vedith claiming results is weird. Did he think we'd lynch lucky then me? Why kill ETL, who's the biggest pusher of Lucky? I think you're right and that he thought I was going to be cop of all trades or something or he didn't even factor in my role into his fakeclaim. It only makes sense he's in a team if he's with lucky and lucky dies and he's "confirmed town". Solo it makes sense but only if he's banking on an easy Lucky mislynch into trying to finally lynch me, something he's been pushing for all game.

No matter what, if he's solo, he's DEFINITELY grade-A fucked now that I've CC'd. If he's in a team, like I said, this is his last shot at winning the game and he's already scumslipped too hard to stand a chance.

If he wanted Lucky Lynched I don't get why he killed ETL who was the only one pushing for a lucky lynch. Maybe he thought after his results, Lucky scum would be apparent enough for people to vote him?

[Soren]

Well now... This is an interesting development...

CN... I hate to put this pressure on you but the game is in your hands because I am definitely following my boy Vedith. Mostly because Hindu has scum slipped several times in this CC. If he is town I'm OK lynching him knowing it's still his fault for being bad at CCing.

Are you referring to the Judas/saulus slip?

[Soren]

What is this cop of all trades you keep mentioning about Hindu? I don't see it in the role list.

[Soren]

What is this cop of all trades you keep mentioning about Hindu? I don't see it in the role list.

1-shot cop of all the alignments or something like that. It's down the list.

I don't see it. Show me.

Spoiler:

Vote: Vedith

Flash wagon go.

Rushing day 1 (Ash's first post) Scum points for Lucky

Lucky wagon is bad and you should feel bad.

Comments like this protect Lucky - Lucky scum points
Lets look into this more.

Nope but he has the least chances of being scum based on what I know. I'm not starting the flash wagon on him lol.

Of his 3 cards, he chose the mafia one to discard. It's likely the other two are anti-mafia. My first set of cards was mafia, town, town. My next set was town, town, town. It's likely he didn't get more than two. He's more likely to be town however small those odds may be. I'm starting the wagon on someone else because of that knowledge.

Of his 3 cards, he chose the mafia one to discard. It's likely the other two are anti-mafia.

My first set of cards was mafia, town, town.

My next set was town, town, town. It's likely he didn't get more than two. He's more likely to be town however small those odds may be. I'm starting the wagon on someone else because of that knowledge.

Off the bat, he is defending him as not likely scum... (Lets also look at the bolded part... The only person to receive 2 sets of cards). - A lot of scum points for Lucky

Suzune, I'll forgive you for that because you just got in here and there's a ton of noise. We wagon Vedith now.

He was desperate to get the attention away from Lucky - More scum points

First person to dayvig vedith gets my unlynchable gift tonight. I promise.

However, knowledge of a dayvig straight here. Points for Soren as partner still. Scum points for Soren

LOOOL

Unvote; Vote: Lucky2u

GOT 'EM.

This is what confuses me, he does a complete 180 on Lucky... o.0

Soren I don't like of all the people here mostly because of her defense of vedith but it's likely she just doesn't understand statistics.

What kind of comment is this? It's fence sitting. Scum points for Soren

cky's town. That tree isn't even worth barking up anymore.

Scum points for Lucky

Jesus Christ, Lucky, if I didn't think you were town, I would vote the shit out of you. You pop up at the exact scummiest moments possible.

I mean, look at this shit. XD

P.S. Dayvig gummybears. I want to see the flip.

Asking for the dayvig on someone who won't argue with him or make him look bad, the most inactive.

Actually I just ISO'd aphix and I'd say he's a great shot too given that he hasn't said shit during the entire game.

Actually I don't like the chances of that. Gummybears is the way to go.

Swaps, tehn swaps straight back, probably for the reason I just stated.

Hey, you're both town so try to keep the back and forth small here.

He knew they were town, because he's scum

Oh, fuck you. Fuck you so hard.

Unvote; Vote: Soren

Major scum points for Lucky, and town points for Soren.

What are the chances scum are a super minority in this game

I don't understand this comment? It would only suit him being a solo scum, but it makes no sense for town to say at all.

BOOM. Ok, so obvkill on me probably. Don't even care. Gj whoever blocked w/e. I'm not claiming but I am here to say, and confidently I might add since we got the psychotrooper, that Chaotic Neutrality is Not Guilty.

What makes me laugh here... He tries to cover his back for if there was a watcher/tracker! It's obvious that he attacked CN, and it's obvious that I protected CN at this stage.

If we're lynching liars, I'm more inclined to lynch you as half of your post was lying when you stated why you thought she was scum. Vigging against the consensus being entirely wrong.

Empty threat, no follow up - Scum points for Lucky

If you both weren't being stubborn, you'd see the other is probtown. This is dumb.

ETL/Soren/Lucky, leaving me CN/vedith. Not liking CN honestly. ISO him and you'll see. Calling for Soren lynch, no vote. Still going off it today. Why? Because vigshot. "if it helps im not guilty" yes, but I think you're likely third party without a kill and don't want to participate in this game anymore.

Vote: CN

Votes CN even though got a read on "Not Mafia"...

I'm pretty much a universal townread, vedith. That's why.

No idea where this come from... It's scum being too confident.

I really doubt Lucky is scum and you've pretty much ignored it while you two went at it and argued semantics over "false conftown card claims = lying mafia" and "argument is dumb so must be scum".

Defending Lucky... Again... Scum points Lucky.

Don't know about this. Only Lucky-scum truly trying to actively hunt other alignments would say this and that means he thought his hammer was genuinely helpful.

Lucky has had a ton of scummy things but his play as a whole feels very atypical of scum play.

I'm not sure if I need to go on, as I'm confident Lucky is the scum partner...

If there is a team of 2, that means it's in Soren/ETL, my top two town reads.

Agreed. But Lucky is scummy as shit in the way he pops in and responds so selectively with so little content at moments where a lot of dicussion is taking place. See above.

And you, vedith. You're just an asshole sometimes. Yet you still chose town. At least be MAN ENOUGH to pick scum and THEN call me an idiot. But NO, you wanted to be on my side.

Starts to act nice to me when he's scared of being lycnhed

If I'm going to be lynched, just do it. JUST END IT. For Christ's sake. I just want a NL at this point.

If this is how it ends, so be it. My people know that I tried in this game.

Only scum say "lych me"...

Don't think vedith or lucky are happening today because I don't want to vote either at this stage of the game.

Lets fast forward to today...
I say my roles (It's 100% obvious I am JOAT) and this is the response.

here and don't want to say anything more until CN posts. Details to follow.

FTR, still waiting on CN. We aren't voting until then. Don't let scum convince you to do otherwise. This is almost certainly LyLo for us.

So a few things here.
No question on me straight away. As a "JOAT" himself, wouldn't that strike instantly?
Looks to me to be debating to throw Lucky under the bus or not.. Since my post says that I think it's either Ash or Lucky (or both).
He says most likely LyLo, basically saying that he knows there is 2 left.

He has not formally claimed but has hinted at it. I want him to clarify it exactly as it is.

Apparently saying that I both roleblocked and healed is only hinting...

No I didn't, you fucker. Specifically because I WANTED to lull you into a bad fakeclaim that one of us already had the role for. I knew it. I'm the JOAT. I took no action last night because I NL'd specifically to see if you fucks would make a kill and confirm my theory on whether we had no killing 3rd party or killing mafia. I knew it all along. I fakecrumbed Cop of all trades both to draw a NK or force scum into making a NK out of fear of results. I also did so because there's no way in hell I'm giving you my real role as crumbs SPECIFICALLY so you'd do something like this, thinking JOAT isn't a role anyone's drawn. (see: Soren/CN thought I may've been JOAT yesterday so there's no way they had the role)

"Mentions trying to draw your NK"]

I'm fairly sure scum are screwed and they know as such.

Pretty much yeah. I feel really good about this game.

I haven't claimed but my role is more than meets the eye so I'm fairly sure we can get some info from it.

I would rather everyone go into a NL behaving without the knowledge of the rest of the town as to what may and may not give up information.

OH YOU SHOULD'VE SEEN THIS COMING

NO DONT CLAIM

This is after he has seen my JOAT claim... Still no vote.


And to end the day

Yeah, it's

SAULUS

. The ONLY card in that deck that's unique and ALWAYS starts off as town hence why it confirms me as town. I already claimed my result. I breadcrumbed Saulus far far before in D1 or such when I was telling you all I had a card that confirms me as town.

Oh fuck me. It's fucking Judas, not Saulus. Fuck me in the ass.

Overall, it's evident that Ash is scum, and Lucky is his partner.
I'm off to bed, I'll let Ash cry over this evidence.

This entire thing is forced and you just giving scum points for certain posts. But serves no real analysis. Nice try though scum.

At this point I think it's worthwhile to lynch Hinduragi and get him on the towns side. When he's L-1 he can out the scum team so when we hammer him he wins with us.

Sound good? Good.

VOTE: Hinduragi

L-1 out the scum team now before they hammer and NK you

He didn't choose that card as his role
Plus if he chosed it for his role card I don't think he learns who the mafia's are since he doesn't have factional communication.
This is very bad, like holy shit dude. Putting him at L-1 when you didn't even bother to read the game and setup at a potential lylo stage.

We have scum. Either way it's confirmed by the alignment card claim that Hinduragi is scum. He didn't even know he was claiming scum (poor guy) but I'm pretty confident given that nobody's hammered him that he is indeed part of the Mafia team.

You do know that Judas is aligned with town right?
The hell are you doing in this game.

[Soren]

So Lucky is pretty town for not hammering Hindu.
And CN claimed scum with Vedith.

[Soren]

Ohhhh. I kept looking at the list with the role pms.

[Soren]

Which has some roles skipped out.

[Soren]

VOTE: Vedith
Let's lynch scum.

pedit: scroll down and there is a link
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ia/RolePMs

[Soren]

Soren and CN, have either of you claimed?

Yes I claimed already. Tourist is my alignment card and town dayvig is my role card.
CN has not claimed yet.

[Soren]

Soren knows Hindu did not claim judas as his alignment card.

Please back up this point. Show me the post where you're drawing this assumption from.

[Soren]

I'm a townie immune to the aliens. That is my only power.

Role card was SK, alignment card was Town Cop.

Why would go for for immunne to aliens instead of sk cop when it would be more likely for people to pick mafia over aliens since aliens only have one factional kill.

[Soren]

In other words, explain your card choices please.

[Soren]

Pretty sure CN is lurking to not dig a deeper hole than he already is in.

[Soren]

The Notebook. Good stuff.

[Soren]

I won as survivor yay.

[Soren]

I won as survivor yay.

Sneaky!
Would you have sided with me in the next day or no?

You mean if hindu got lynched instead?

[Soren]

You mean if hindu got lynched instead?

Yeah lol

Prob not.

Dead QT tho: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/eEqSeUyNuck

Thanks! I was wondering if there was a dead topic. Is there a particular reason you used QT instead of PT Marquis?