Closed Setups Are Horrible

talah · Post Post #58 (isolation #0) » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:58 pm

I like closed setups. They let my mind roam and then I have to decide what's too-too fucked up to be real and what's somewhat likely to be possible. I rely on the reviewers to balance against that and I take advice in-game from folks who could either be scum or town. Then my own experience weighs in as well, but it ends up mainly being about assessing folks' motives.

It's immensely enjoyable having that level of unknown to figure out.

talah · Post Post #59 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:01 am

Also have you seen the c9++ setups (iirc)? They're actually beautiful and what I've seen on other sites. I guess you could say they're open but the permutations at some point make open pretty similar to closed.

talah · Post Post #60 (isolation #2) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:02 am

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B

talah · Post Post #62 (isolation #3) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:21 am

Wellll,

I have the kind of attitude that even if you have strong reads you need to be ballsy enough to punch the big guy in the face toward the end of the game if you're around. Even if you're wrong. So closed setups actually facilitate that for me because I get to theorise about possibilities (and there are actually *finite* possibilities available) and yet still scumhunt as if the setup were open. In a way, closed setups let me be more creative in my thinking and theorising, thus gaining more information via scumhunting on the players who attempt to leverage the fact that the setup is closed. It also gives town PRs more space to hide, which is where balance kicks in.

I just like it more. it's more mysterious and interesting and I don't think I've seen a closed setup that was won based on town not knowing about the setup.

talah · Post Post #64 (isolation #4) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:27 am

Are you confused on what I said though? I'm scumreading you now.

In post 62, talah wrote:I don't think I've seen a closed setup that was won based on town not knowing about the setup.

talah · Post Post #65 (isolation #5) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:29 am

Or lightly townreading lol :)

talah · Post Post #67 (isolation #6) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:46 am

I'm wondering what the problem is with closed setups if they offer variety and mental stimulation to a game and don't really influence the outcome of games.

Open setups are an option (and I apologise if I missed the last page or two of pointed discussion) and are half the queues here, including the newbie queue - even if that's semi-open, which lies in between both polar opposites.

I guess what I don't get - is why does a closed setup make so much of a difference to you if you'll also argue that scumhunting is paramount? I'll argue the same thiing. I just find closed more fun.

talah · Post Post #70 (isolation #7) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:07 am

Well the Molla game was advertised as an experiment. I thought the setup was interesting as I said post-game even though I was correct on the scumteam.

How do you have 40-50 games here with a June 2015 join date?

Maybe you're just not appreciating the games for what they are? I mean Molla's game was technically semi-open in my mind (or at least some breed of semi-open, as opposed to closed) since it was sitting in the "Normal" bracket. You can deduce roles from that, and I certainly tried but they were all wrong (apart form my own experience of a closed game which also had a scum vig).

talah · Post Post #71 (isolation #8) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:12 am

Well actually both of FEA and Gundam contained a scum vig and they were both "closed" (or rather "theme") and I got killed by scum vig's both times so I'm probably a bit atypical.

Still - Theme games are not the same as Normal games are not the same as Open games - which are the 3 queues available.

And hey - if I don't want to deal with setup spec I'll join an open. You can't say that "90% is closed is BAD" when it's purely based on people choosing the game type they'll be in?

talah · Post Post #72 (isolation #9) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:14 am

(although I'll argue that setup spec is *much more prevalent* in an open but meh)

talah · Post Post #73 (isolation #10) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:14 am

or at least role-spec and discussion

talah · Post Post #75 (isolation #11) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:24 am

And what did I say in the post right after that, 30 seconds later?

talah · Post Post #76 (isolation #12) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:25 am

Are you actually trolling?

talah · Post Post #78 (isolation #13) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:32 am

Okay then I suppose I get ya.

One of the first games I joined after my first newb was an open because I wanted that solidity. Far as scumhunting went, the setup itself didn't help.

So that's why I then played a couple of large themes and really liked them. I like you too by the way! (IMNOTSCUM)

<3