Blitz 17: Netherspite's Blitz SORM II [Game over]

[Errantparabola]

Presumably.
Hello again AI.
I'm not incredibly excited about my role.

[Errantparabola]

Oh jeez what will ranger do without those sweet rvs votes?
Actually never mind, i realized its probably the text that accompanies the votes that's more alignment indicative to her

[Errantparabola]

AI how did you get "neutral" from "not very excited about my role"

[Errantparabola]

Im tempted to call yakko town for that vote, but since it's yakko i will not.

[Errantparabola]

Hey I'm back

What about that vote could be town regardless of yakko?

After thinking about it, I don't think that it's town in a vacuum.
But here was my thought process at the time. I thought that yakko's willingness to place a vote would open up discussion as to why he did so when the day was lynchless, thus drawing unnecessary attention that scum might want to avoid this early on in the game to reduce associatives. At the time, I decided it was just yakko doing their thang, so to speak

AI how did you get "neutral" from "not very excited about my role"

You are feeling neutral about your neutral role. Makes sense.

1. My intent when I said "not very excited" was not to convey neutrality but the fact that I did not get a role that I liked very much.
2. Even if I were neutral, why would that necessarily point to a neutral role? I could feel neutral about a town role or a scum role as well.

16 is causing me to light scumread axle. I don't like the bandwagon forming considering there's no actual pressure to be gained from it, and as a result it's a post that seems town, but not coming from a town perspective. That incongruity gives me something to worry about.

21 is in-line with my early game reads as of right now so I'm tempted to call it a day and townread Ranger. We'll see how she goes from here.

3dice, got any fast townreads this game?

[Errantparabola]

49 call it conf bias, but is this Axle trying to set up for a self-meta defense?

58 I'd move FA down a notch, flip Sensei and Yakko, and that's about where I'm at. By the way, I don't take much stock in my early reads- simply not enough to go on.
But I wasn't lying in Double Trouble when I said that I thought it was a good idea to take a strong townread and work from there. I think I'm going to do that with Ranger, for now, until some flips or drastic events potentially change my gameview.

The whole FA v Yakko seems awkward but not awkward enough so that I'd consider hanging one of them.

rkvothe has introduced himself closer to the bottom of my reads list (but not where I'd confidently say scum) and here's why.

67
tone-wise smells to me like scum unsure how to get into the game, but new town could have similarities in that regard.
seems like setting up for a lack of scumhunting
The "I'm open to questions" line is something I've used as scum to make it seem like I'm unafraid to interact with people when in reality I don't want to share associatives. Again, I am afraid of overanalyzing this due to the newness of the slot (I believe you mentioned this was your first game in signups)
And post 70 seems to me to credit grab to try and seem more town when it really doesn't matter who suggested the idea first.

I'm keeping an open mind in regards to rebuttals because this is pretty clearly not a strong case by any means
rkvothe and others I'd appreciate it if you could share early reads, even if you're not very confident in them.
It would be helpful if you end up gettin killed.

[Errantparabola]

Early reads summary

3dicerolling- play seems a bit removed from other early games I've played with you. null for now.
Frozen Angel- i really don't want to townread you right now.but as a whole your flippancy seems removed from your scumplay. null-town.
hi im Yakko- your interaction with FA seems awkward which makes me want to lean scum, but I don't think it's indicative. null.
Ranger- i found myself agreeing with a lot of the early stances you took. town.
Aristophanes- Don't remember your History Mafia play but no real interaction in your first post so I'm watching you closely. null-scum.
AxleGreaser- see my previous reasons. scum.
AlwaysInnocent- tone seems removed from townplay but i don't take stock in this meta read (and I don't have much confidence in meta as a whole to define cases). the whole neutral thing is just weird. scum.
rkvothe- see my previous reasons. null- scum.
Errantparabola- smells bad so avoid irl.

p-edit: rkvothe. so in regard to 70, do you think that Anxiety is scummier for presenting an idea that was on the table as their own?

[Errantparabola]

Why are you asking me if there are other reasons you asked that question?
What was the reason you asked that question?
I shared what I thought the reason was and I'm going to keep believing it until I see an alternative.

[Errantparabola]

AI how did you get "neutral" from "not very excited about my role"

Why did you say it in the first place?

It was a conversation starter.

This day is more beneficial to scum than to town, in my honest opinion, so let's be careful about what we say.

This reads town motivated.

I disagree.
Why did you question 3dice's townread on Ranger but not my own?

126 succeeded in making me chuckle

I actually don't want to use meta on FA based on the overly defensive shtick because I feel like that's subject to change.

[Errantparabola]

58 I'd move FA down a notch, flip Sensei and Yakko, and that's about where I'm at. By the way, I don't take much stock in my early reads- simply not enough to go on.
But I wasn't lying in Double Trouble when I said that I thought it was a good idea to take a strong townread and work from there. I think I'm going to do that with Ranger, for now, until some flips or drastic events potentially change my gameview.

What about Rangers readslist thingy lead you to believe that it was structured from town>scum and not scum>town so confidently?

Because I've played with Ranger before.

[Errantparabola]

set themselves up as an easy mislynch so they wont die.

Good strategy. I, on the other hand, am trying to do the opposite

[Errantparabola]

AI have you played with FA before?

[Errantparabola]

Since you're not going to cooperate I'm going to go look at the playerlists for all your games now.
Not diggin that logic there friend. I refuse to view a meta argument like that as legitimate if you haven't played at least a town and scum game with the person in question.

[Errantparabola]

Okay it seems that the reason you're not talking about it is because games are ongoing. I get that.
That makes the possibility that you're hard-bussing FA at least nonzero.

[Errantparabola]

I dunno, hopefully Ranger can shed some light on this.

My readslist is not necessarily defined by "this tier is town" or "this tier is scum". Heck, in Ythan's Murder on Madness Mountain, my list was all "town": I had no scumreads, at all, and was townreading everyone to varying extents. Was not a fun game until late-D1 (effectively D2) where I fixed that.

And because I can,
VOTE: Errantparabola.
Revenge shall be mine!

dammit Ranger I'm D1-Lynchable septuple hated town!
way to throw the game

I also don't see how your claim is provable without resorting to committing kills

[Errantparabola]

I at first disagreed with Sensei's assessment of random, thought it was bad
But random, I thought your response to Sensei was also bad
hmm

[Errantparabola]

Don't worry 3dice I like you as much as two normal people would
FA, why are you saying vig is confirmable? Wouldn't that mean you'd have to commit a kill?

[Errantparabola]

Axle, I shared what I thought the most likely reason for your wanting Ranger to look up your games.
You have not shared an alternative (if you have, please point me to it).
As a result, I have no reason to stop believing what I think is the most likely.

[Errantparabola]

Okay, Axle.

This day is more beneficial to scum than to town, in my honest opinion, so let's be careful about what we say.

This reads town motivated.

Given the seeming newness of the slot to the game in general. I agree. Other people with more experience making the same level of observation could be anything.

You have, Axle Dollars.

Wouldn't worry about how you spend them my vague memory of your play style means you'll likely get more.

This post is off to me. Although I am more on the side of 3dice regarding the newness thing (Because I do think that new town and scum share certain similar lines of play in the beginning that will eventually differentiate themselves), I don't think that something that would normally be nonindicative should be read as town indicative based on newness.

[Errantparabola]

Why did ranger die?

[Errantparabola]

passing popcorn to Ika-SW

lol is this not happening

[Errantparabola]

So we're lynching in FA and AI because both can't be killing/power is this correct?
Considering Ranger was spy

[Errantparabola]

we have random slots nice try

yeah i just realized this when I was reading the first post

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: 3dice
a reluctant vote

[Errantparabola]

So a mass murderer didn't target Ranger because otherwise killing scum would have died, right?
So it was SK?

This whole open role madness thing is kinda new to me, so

[Errantparabola]

It is flavor.

It is a very obvious thing in this setup

hello AA! your SW or Ika? if Ika explain it to the please

your not a jester are you?

Why would netherspite keep the flavor of the kills the same and allow us to break the game like that

[Errantparabola]

And if i remember correctly, sw always signs.

[Errantparabola]

is AA trying to like communicate with us through voting people
AA if you can vote (and i assume netherspite has told you so, but if that hasn't been clarified maybe wait for an answer to wisdom's question)
can you communicate with us via voting people, misspelling names when necessary (maybe through having the first letter of every name) or would that be poor conduct

[Errantparabola]

Though I think that probably doesn't allow them to post at all, and ika is just fooling around.

Probably, considering that netherspite has probably taken into account what i just suggested

[Errantparabola]

Nope. They can target their partners.

Lol. Really?

Yeah I targeted a partner N1 as a vote silencer.
I assume that if AA is town, scum were afraid of AA's experience with the setup or something like that.

[Errantparabola]

so after we get an answer to wisdoms question, we claim categories? or claim now?
does AA voting the same people over and over again mean something

[Errantparabola]

AI's vig reaction to FA's vig claim seems legitimate enough.
If both are vig, then we know that at least two of the town random is power/killing
Spy, Vig, Vig, Jailor

Do we have time to popcorn claim?

[Errantparabola]

So AA is power. that makes five.

[Errantparabola]

FA how do you know Ika was your jailor?

[Errantparabola]

OKAY AA I'm confused Are you Killing/Power?
Vote once if yes, vote twice if no

[Errantparabola]

There are 5 possible slots for killing/power.
AA, AI, frozen, Ranger fill four of them, leaving one more random role.

I'd like aronis or axle to claim next.

[Errantparabola]

FA are you scumreading me? If not, why do you want me to claim now?

[Errantparabola]

I'm not claiming until Aronis and/maybe or Axle claim.
Because they're my scumreads.
There is a reason for this.

[Errantparabola]

so you say claims must be in this order?

Aronis , 3 dice , axxel , erra ?

i'd rather claim last, but if people are scumreading me then obviously i'm in no position to do that if we're popcorning.

[Errantparabola]

Errant is scum. That's why they are not claiming. It is so obvious.

Give me a reason why i would be afraid of claiming my category right now as scum.

[Errantparabola]

Errant is scum. That's why they are not claiming. It is so obvious.

Give me a reason why i would be afraid of claiming my category right now as scum.

hey buddy i asked you a question. I guarantee i'll claim before night.

[Errantparabola]

fine but you're being a detriment to town with your irrational behavior and that makes me less confident you're town.
I'm killing/power. Now do you see the damn reason why I was holding back my claim?
That means now scum knows not to claim government or power/killing because all three random slots are filled. jesus christ.

[Errantparabola]

Seriously, why do you think this? This is totally not unlike Errant's scum game.

I ask you again, have you played a single town game with me?
Do you know the differences between my scum and town meta?
Oh wait, let me answer that for you.
No.
So stop pushing your shoddy, nonexistent meta case on me.

[Errantparabola]

Errant is lying.

You know, you seemed logical enough in Double Trouble.
What happened?

[Errantparabola]

Also I'm town power

Tomorrow I propose that we lynch in AI/Yakko then.

[Errantparabola]

Seriously, why do you think this? This is totally not unlike Errant's scum game.

I ask you again, have you played a single town game with me?
Do you know the differences between my scum and town meta?
Oh wait, let me answer that for you.
No.
So stop pushing your shoddy, nonexistent meta case on me.

Oh yeah, AI. Mind answering this? If you're going to respond to me, you don't get to pick and choose what you respond to.
You're pushing a scumcase on me, burden of proof is on you.

I don't know his meta but he's looked consistently town

Yeah, just like in Blitz 11. Except that Errant was scum. Most people believed Errant was town. Errant can be quite convincing, but there is something about their play that stands out: the way they are asking questions and trying to avoid to roleclaim.

You know, people can think I'm town when I'm scum, sure. How do you know that people don't think I'm town when I'm town? You don't.
I gave a reason why I wanted to avoid roleclaiming. You have 0 evidence, 0 proof, 0 logic as to why your Errant-is-scum-reason is more likely than the Errant-is-town reason.
And what do you mean the way I'm asking questions?

[Errantparabola]

you don't get to pick and choose what you respond to.

Yes, I do.

I pick whatever I want.

This is EXACTLY what you used against me last time. Not falling for it again.

You are the one with the burden of proof.
You don't have the fucking luxury of getting to ignore things that suggest your scumcase is invalid.
You don't get to expect people to believe your scumcase true if your obstinate behavior continues like this.
If you're town, go ahead and shoot me and relish the fact that you were wrong. Relish the fact that you ignored the logic that I gave you.

[Errantparabola]

Just because my scumgame is towny doesn't mean my towngame is scummy.

[Errantparabola]

Now that yakko scumclaimed, AI and Errant should kindly stop TvTing, thanks!

unfortunately, I don't have this luxury, because AI fails to realize that I have indeed defended myself and is loading his gun.

[Errantparabola]

I forgot it. Something called amnesiac third party.

We'll know what role you decide to change to then.
If you don't change to town power, we lynch you.
Claiming to us means you town ally. Correct?

[Errantparabola]

Don't hammer until everyone has claimed categories/deadline is imminent, to all not voting

copied from FA

Town Government : Wisdom (mason leader)
Town Investigative or Protective: Axle
Town Investigative or Protective: Random
Town Killing or Power : FA (vigilant)
Town Killing or Power : Ranger (Spy)
Town Random X3 : AI (vig) , AA (jailor) , Erra (killing/power)
Neutral Evil : 3dice (cultist)
Neutral Benign : Yakko (amnesiac)

So the only benefit to nolynch above 3dice lynch is that wisdom might stay alive?

[Errantparabola]

or AA might stay alive. If we're going the no lynch option (which I am still kind of wary about) then I'd rather we have AA stay alive, I think.

[Errantparabola]

I'm killing, by the way

this is a cool pew pew game!

[Errantparabola]

To clarify, "I'm killing" was me claiming my category, 3dice

[Errantparabola]

If he didn't respond the first time, I don't think he'll respond the second time lol

with the protectives, i don't see the problem in lynching cult today. But then again, there are roleblockers and witch...
I still tend to lean on the side of lynching cult today. If we don't then we should lynch someone else if there's enough time after claims.

pedit. the time thing is also a problem.

[Errantparabola]

Should we really be committing night actions

[Errantparabola]

Fa i was wondering whether we should be committing night actions considering how then scum would be able to anticipate (for example if vig commits a kill on scum then scum could roleblock that vig)
What do others think about this?

And aronis, were claiming categories. That doesnt mean they know who's dangerous. It helps town because we can determine a lynchpool of the overfilled categories, presumably

[Errantparabola]

You're discussing whether or not your strategy with all the claims is good with FA and then you turn around and tell me to claim? Wtf? Like figure out what you're doing before you massclaim, not after. Morons

seriously? The committing night kills plan exists separately with the claiming categories plan.

[Errantparabola]

Shoot me. I dare you. It aint gonna work

although this makes the claim pretty likely to be true, I did enjoy entertaining the possibility that aronis was jester who was absolutely next-leveling us

[Errantparabola]

aronis, although i have yet to see evidence that this setup is broken, so far there hasn't been as much scumhunting as i had hoped and if a side ends up winning solely based on their role powers then i'm gonna be pretty disappointed

maybe this kind of game isn't for me but we'll see

[Errantparabola]

You can use your bulletproof vest up to 3 times during the game.

FA you could have checked yourself

[Errantparabola]

dont destroy my tests .... next time you'll be a pew pew target

What, did you think that Aronis, fakeclaiming survivor, would throw out a number without checking how many vests survivor had?

[Errantparabola]

sure thing, FA, but only because it's you

[Errantparabola]

Random and Axle are currently the only two slots in the I/P but that may change as the final claims get in, I suppose
I put the roles that aren't confirmed (from my point of view) in the random slot

Town Government - Wisdom (Mason leader)
Town Investigative or Protective - rkvothe (not confirmed but pretty likely town)
Town Investigative or Protective - Axle
Town Killing or Power - Ranger (Spy)
Town Killing or Power - EP (Killing)
Town Random - AA (jailor who is potentially lying about being blackmailed), AI (vig), FA (vig), random (protective), Sensei (government), Persivul (unclaimed), Aristophanes (unclaimed)

Neutral Evil - Cultist (3dice)
Neutral Benign - Survivor (Aronis)
Neutral Random - Amnesiac (Yakko), who is presumably town aligned'

So I'm sort of looking at a lynchpool of AA, Persivul, Aristo, and one of random/Sensei

[Errantparabola]

Oh, and ignore the first statement, I had that typed up earlier and forgot to edit it out.

[Errantparabola]

We can only do that if we can ensure that 3dice dies tonight. Let's don't forget about that.

The thing is, making suboptimal plays isn't necessarily going against win condition. I'd rather we just lynch 3dice today... I guess I just don't want to leave anything up to chance. shrug