RR is scum Pt. 1: FA Associatives.
So yeah. Although I guess that's kinda an object lesson for those of you who decided putting *anyone* at L-1 was a good idea at this point.
The indirectness of this feels really off.
The indirectness? I was commenting on people freaking out over possibly ending the day and preventing alliances, and referring to said scare by wgeurts as an object lesson in how bad the L-1 a few hours in is for town.
pedit: FA: What are your thoughts on my reaction to the wagon?
This is never followed up so it strikes me as coaching
FA responded to this. She told me that my reaction was calm and and gave her a slight town lean, if I recall correctly. There was no need for follow up BECAUSE SHE ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
FA: I recommend people who play with emotion if you want to try L-1 reaction testing in the future.
Again, way too casual in a way that doesn't really fit the situation.
RR does not strike me as the kind of hydra that would be happy just brushing off that L-1, and this is really coachy in general in a way that doesn't really feel like it fits.
We're incredibly calm. We hate idiots, and jump on them for being idiots, but you can't do anything about idiots pushing you to L-1 in the first few hours of the day when I hadn't even had a chance to talk to my partner yet, so I just didn't care.
Stop projecting the way you react to pressure early D1 to the way we react to it. There was NO material to go off of at that point, NO reason for a wagon on us, and NOTHING to argue against, so(if you read my reaction to the wagon) I expressed that I assumed it was because of a combination of people looking forward to seeing ME in particular get mislynched given how vocal I am about never being mislynched, and fear of Drixx's absurdly good scum game)
That statement wasn't really for you, it was more for everyone else to explain why I might later want to vote you, in spite of the earlier statement that you gained some town cred for trying to get allied. :p
-Cerb
pedit: you are the one one who put us at L-1.
^^ I understand you didn't have a choice on who everybody else was voting, but, meh. Just letting you know that I at least don't give very useful reactions, especially if "calm" gives a positive result for you. Drixx would have probably just called you all idiots. I don't know if that would have been more or less town than what I did to you, so, meh.
This exchange feels really scumbuddyish with FA being standoffish about it but not getting defensive or attacking back.
What? Read the context. We were having a perfectly calm conversation about why L-1 gambiting us is bad, and I never attacked her at all in that post? I said I might want to vote her later, and that's it. How is that an attack? What is there for her to react to defensively?
Oh man, 2 votes on you FA, and you are ready to flip out on us? It's D1, people don't need reasons to vote, didn't you know that?
INCREDIBLY coachy.
Yes, this is different from how I talked to Jeanne about flipping out how?
pedit: damnit. you fucking people and your fast wagons. What is FA at now, like L-2?
Indirectly attacking the quick wagon on Frozen Angel.
I hate quick wagons. They're stupid. Why the hell do you want to end the day before more conversation can happen? It's bad play, and I always always attack quick wagons, and ensure the town is perfectly aware of how close to a lynch without any further associatives or a claim or anything they are. Not alignment indicative, though I bet you wish it was.
Inconsistent in what?! My reads and actions are completely clear. if there is anything concerning I'm not in the moon! ask me!
FA: You've done nothing inconsistent yet. When you do, I'll ask you why you did it, or I'll behave in the fashion that provoked the inconsistent response and see if you continue to behave inconsistently, and THEN ask you about it.
Either way, I won't remain silent about it for long.
-Cerb
Pedit: To be absolutely clear here, I think it's stupid to jump on someone because they chose to defend themselves when people voted them, regardless of how many votes people put on them. I would have *never* voted her for that reason. I just wanted to know if a reason as weak as that one would have been acceptable to her, so I could judge her reaction to peoples responses to her demand for a case on her.
Horribly overexplained, defends FA without really labelling her as a townread, and FA usually reacts a lot more viscerally to being scumread by town, as you can see with my votes. Her reaction here was strange to say the leash and RR overexplaining the vote is strange as well.
What vote? I didn't have a vote on her? i didn't even vote at all yesterday. What vote do you think i'm overexplaining? Oh, you mean the THEORETICAL that I threw out there to see how she felt about different reasons for voting her? That vote that never happened?
...
Also, overexplained? please tell me what part of that was unnecessary to communicate everything I communicated in that post?
Frozen Angel (4): Heartless, Errantparabola, 3dicerolling, farside22
3dicerolling (3): wgeurts, Frozen Angel, Masters of Bull
Okay, just from looking at it, there's...well...nobody who I would really automatically consider especially town. Heartless and wgeurtz are the closest(because I know wgeurtz likes doing stupid gambits and crap as town, so the reaction test is a reasonable thing for him to do, and I know Heartless is EXTREMELY successful as town, so I believe they would indeed choose to play a town slot.) MOB could be either really. Mastin likes winning, and though she is *better* as scum, I could easily see her deciding that she will deliberately choose town BECAUSE everyone would expect her to be scum, and that would make it harder for her to win.
i just realized the two of you are voting for each other though, so...well, I need to look at that. Honestly, if I'm going to look at composition, I'm going to need to track the voting history of each member of the wagon and see what reasoning they gave for their initial vote placement, and for any movement that have happened since, to tell you whether or not any of it doesn't make sense to me and I feel it should be questioned.
Not sure if that told you anything, but that's some stream of consciousness from looking at your wagons.
Oh shit, I just had a thought though, for when Jeanne comes back: Jeanne!! Why aren't you voting with FA who you are absolutely certain is town, or at least trying to get her to vote someone with you?
Simultaneously overexplains his position on the FA wagon, tries to push Jeanne to vote FA's counterwagon, attacks the people ON the FA wagon even though they are all pretty towny, and doesn't really express a read on FA while defending her in all these different ways.
Overexplains? What? I was ASKED to give my thoughts on the wagons. Like wtf man? Just because you can't string together two coherent thoughts about something doesn't mean I can't. Every time I draw multiple conclusions about things or talk about how thigns interact, does it mean I'm overexplaining? how about when everyone else does it?
We can just make a pact to ignore her. ^^ We've got like half the playerbase who would agree to that at this point.
Yeah, let's just ignore scum and/or ICs.
YES BECAUSE THERE IS FUCKING NOISE COMING OUT OF THE TWO SLOTS AND IT'S DISTRACTING FROM EVERYTHING ELSE. Please oh please go look up every game i've ever had with jeanne as myself or a hydra. I always advise people to leave emotional freaking out noisy people alone. Period.
So, FA is town because of the speed of posting, essentially. Because it all appears to be stream of consciousness knee jerk reactions to things (as is evident above when she lashes out at frogger for AGREEING with her). Not sure about that particular reasoning but I'll buy it for the moment. Now, does that logic only apply to the "emotional" among us, or is it only town when she does it.
HERE'S THE LEGENDARY TOWN READ AND IT'S FOR-
speed of posting.
That's why he's been defending her so hard.
HOLY MOTHER FUCKING SHIT. READ MY POSTS. OH WAIT, I'M GOING TO ACTUALLY LINK YOU TO THIS SHIT, FUCK OFF, THIS ISN'T EVEN MY READ HERE!! I'VE EXPLAINED IT TWICE NOW!!! FUCKING
2277, READ IT NOW.
MOB has a townread expressed because he feels FA is similar and thinks it is townie of her to have these rapid fire off the top of her head reactions to things. I, in the post above, reiterate what he said, express doubt about it's truth, state that I'll accept the premise of "speed of posting can be alignment indicative" and then fucking ask him what he thinks it means for the alignment of players who AREN'T emotional flighty things like FA. Why would I ever ask that question if I was expressing my own opinion? 602 IS OBVIOUSLY NOT MY FUCKING OPINION ON HER FUCKING SLOT.
Also, other than wgeurts shooting FA, he has been, by far, the most reasonable person here. I think he just had the means to do something when he got frustrated. :p
Does this look like the reaction of someone who just had one of their lead townreads shot?
I NEVER TOWNREAD THE FUCKING SLOT READ WHAT THE HELL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT 602.
FA: shh. You're not dead. We can still move on from this.
If this isn't a fucking scumclaim then I don't know what is.
We can still move on from this? Like, what the shit?
That's literally the most obvious coaching that I've ever seen.
FA: shh. You're not dead. We can still move on from this.
Repeated for fucking emphasis.
Yeah, this is the full context of that.
In post 608, wgeurts wrote:Darn you varsoons
I could have ended this once and for all if you had been a bit later
In post 609, wgeurts wrote:It was another gambit except this time varsoons trolled me
No one should'a fallen for your silly gambit, you fieeeend.
But also yeah I was overdue for a VC.
In post 610, Reasonably Rational wrote: In post 595, Jeanne11 wrote: In post 592, farside22 wrote:Also master of bull I'd like to fuse/allign with you tonight if you don't mind.
VOTE: MOB
If you're going to vote the person I want to ally with, then I will do the same. >.>
Pretty sure he did it cause of this post. It was petty and irritating and I would have shot you for it if I had been him, fyi.
Up to that point, he had been completely understanding. Anyways it *looks* like it wasn't a real kill! Or at least, if it was, it won't be happening until day end.
Which is it wgeurts?
Pedit: yep fake.
Wgeurts, gotta do it like, 30 minutes after a VC, so he has no reason to be checking the thread, in the case of a fake kill like that. And the fake hammer should have happened on the next page, not the pagd of the vc, so it wasn't so easy to see it was fake.
FA: shh. You're not dead. We can still move on from this.
FA thinks she's getting shot, acts irritated(a little bit), realizes she ISN'T dead before my post is made, and I, as her scumbuddy, totally fucking tell her "we can still move on from this" as her scumbuddy? Like what? I really can't imagine someone capable of even attempting to play this game who would do something like that, and you're trying to say that I did it? Me?
I mean, I ask for just a tiny bit of respect, that scum me wouldn't BLATANTLY do that. RC, like, I know you don't like us, but can you honestly say you think we're stupid?
I am 100% serious, if the players of this game honestly believe that I(Cerberus v666, the person making this post) is that fucking stupid, please tell me now. I would like to know who has less respect for my intelligence than I have a snails.
the only thing in that entire post that has any basis in reality is my belief that at least one scum was on the wagon on me, and it was likely an accidental thing, not an opportunistic maybe we can get a mislynch on page 3. I don't have any reason to townread you, or hiplop, so I tossed you in. :p
Scum prefer not to lie when necessary.
...hmm...
That's meaningless? Hell, it's even wrong, because the fact that the vote to push me to L-1 came from an actual scum slot means it was a DELIBERATE thing, not an accidental thing. It was the opposite of what I said ti was. I said look for scum inthe early part of the wagon, because they most likely just voted for us for lolz and then the wagon suddenly got pushed to L-1 before they even realized.
The situation that happened IS NOT the situation I described.
FA: thank you. Can you please repeat the farside case?
Pushing FA to keep sharing her reads and look towny.
Oh, or maybe I was just at work and didn't have time to look through her iso to figure out why the hell she thought farside was scum, when the last thing I remembered of her case was that it was complete and utter shit based on a stupid "townslip"
Kc, no. I want scum to have to shoot someone who isn't obvtown if they want to prevent our claimed IC from confirming themselves, which will allow the jeanne noise to continue.
AKA, we can't shoot our dearest little scumbum FA so we need her to ally with someone else.
WHY THE HELL WOULD I BE SO INSISTENT ON YOU TRYING TO ALLY IF I PLANNED ON HAVING MY TEAM MAKE SURE YOU COULDN'T ALLY BY KILLING YOUR ATTEMPTED ALLIES?? WTF?
ow do you feel about my suggestion that you ally with someone who scum would rather not kill tonight, so they're forced to kill you, or kill someone who we don't mind seeing die because they're mislynch bait? And ally, not fuse, because we only have evidence of fusion stopping, not alliance stopping, and we were told your IC thing works in alliances.
AGAIN, pushing away from the ally with FA idea.
Why would scum rather kill FA again?? Since when is that a thing? She was literally a major wagon like a day ago.
Valid point. I was referring more to someone who is a massive lurker/useless player, rather than someone who is actively participating in the game. I find scum more likely to leave those slots alone than anyone else, because they pose no threat. If we forced an alliance with a slot like that, then we either end up with an IC, or we end up with a dead lurker. Win/Win imo.
RC ally with me
My fusion is just a modifier.
this way you will be confirmed as an IC and I can get info
You..people are exposing WAY too much information.
Coach RR here with his daily teach-FA-how-to-play routine.
I note that RR hasn't made a quarter of the effort to coach any other player, and when he did coach Jeanne it was often hostile.
The way he coaches FA is very much a reaching out to her sort of coaching, what I'd expect to see from scumbuddies.
That's because the other players are competent and aren't doing idiotic things. This is my first time playing with FA. I tried nice with Jeanne too at first, and it didn't work. I am now exasperated and stop being nice to her rather quickly.
Hey, kinda made the mistake of enticing people to talk to me when I really just want to go to sleep. The only tung about FA that sticks out to me beyond d the jeanne stuff was the farside situation, which....well...I don't like that at all. I didn't see anything suspicious in farside posts originally, after looking at it a few times it's still not suspicious, and the "deliberate townslip" thing is dumb. Without rereading her, which I really don't want to do, I don't have much more to say. Drixx might, he told me he's caught up now, so...yeah. idk when hes gonna chime in, we haven't spoken about the game at all really since we discussed our role/alignment choice.
(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)(#)
She was incredibly obviously Rose. From her first crumb it was obvious. Also, FA: Varsoon is making a joke. You keep saying massage, not message. Two different words. I'd address other stuff but meh. I need to actually look at all the posts you linked to do that and I'm not doing that right now.
Simultaneously defends FA indirectly and subtly pushes her away from the Farside situation.
Indirectly defends? Since when is *not attacking* the same as defending? Telling someone they're being stupid is subtly pushing them away from a situation.
There is SOOOO much confirmation bias going on in the way you're reading all my posts, it's insane. You're evaluating my every post with the assumption that I'm scum. Maybe you should go redo this little wall, and read objectively and consider ALL the possibilities.
That, btw, is why I'm such shit at D1. I consider ALL the possibilities, even the unlikely ones, and don't have enough information to rule out things as implausible except in the case of basic mafia theory. Here you see someone who does the opposite. Reads something, and only interprets it in the fashion that supports their position.
now mod is joking me? :/
god
whats wrong with this game
Not saying anything is wrong, because nothing is wrong. Just responding to FA.
<3 Varsoon.
-Cerb
Telling FA to calm her overreacting butt.
Yes yes, because I did something different with Jeanne?
Can we please stop with the promises, threats and other things which are skirting the rules? I've seen at least three posts in the last two pages that could be viewed as trust tells. Seriously ... stop it.
I already nearly left Cerberus to play by himself over the level of nonsense in this game. Just put the level 0 play away, follow the rules, and start with a fresh slate already. It's getting really old to refresh and see pages of the same crap over and over and over ad nauseum.
So I call FA out for meta and RR basically calls me out for using a trust tell.
The four word phrase, by the way, is 'GET OUT OF HERE.'
I've never seen her use it as town and she uses it as scum frequently and it's a phrase that's very reflective of the difference in her mentality as town and scum.
Scum!FA when wagoned gets angry and shouts and screams and throws temper tantrums and keeps saying that she's town and keeps fighting not to be lynched.
Town!FA when wagoned gets sullen and submissive and if she fights she generally does so in a more of an upset and frustrated and less of an angry manner.
Why would he be so overly concerned about something being basically a trust tell if he wasn't scum with her? C'mon, this isn't fucking rocket science.
HOLY SHIT. You are questioning my fucking partners integrity. Fuck you. Fuck off. Drixx is the most moral fucking person I know. You know why he's talking about trust tells and such? BECAUSE HE WANTS TO PLAY A GOOD GAME UNBLEMISHED BY ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED QUESTIONABLE. We don't want a game with mod kills. We don't want a game with all this bullshit and noise. We want to play a game of mafia, and win a game of mafia, with no doubt that our victory came because we outplayed the other team.
It is super lame to lose to stuff like that.
...
There's nothing to say. Claimed guilty by a claimed, though unproven, IC. We lynch it. I just wanted to make sure people didn't get too overzealous in making the obvious play and forget about setting up their alliances.
See, it's pretty clear that he thinks that I'm not really cop.
Town!RR would fight it here because he wouldn't believe me.
RR knows that she's scum and can't risk fighting it because of the risk that it's going to kick him right in the fucking ass later if I actually was IC BP Cop w/e shenanigans.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO. YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW ME. YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHO I AM OR HOW I PLAY. If you did, all this wouldn't be happening right now.
You're falling back on the fucking 602 bullshit that's actually MOB's fucking read on FA. The only reason why I might not believe it is because I honestly thought she was town, which actually wasn't the case, but even if it was the case...guess what? I FREELY ADMIT I AM SHIT AT D1 AND I WILL GLADLY FUCKING SHEEP A CLAIMED GUILTY REGARDLESS OF WHAT I THINK.
The only time I WON'T blindly sheep a cop guilty, barring mod confirmed evidence against the cop or a bastard game, is in fucking lylo. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT MY FUCKING READ ON THE SLOT WAS. I TRUST MOD CONFIRMED INFORMATION MORE THAN I TRUST MY OWN OPINIONS.
Oh RC, please. I'm glad you were suspicious enough of me to think I was coaching FA, but entertained that you think I would actually coach her were we scum together.
Nothing to say here, this is just RC stroking his ego because he thinks he's caught us.
So yeah, the bolded bit in my post is about the bolded bit in MOBs. He was saying her behavior was more likely town than not, I reiterated it and said I'm not sure I agreed but I'd buy it for the moment, and then asked for clarification on whether he felt that was universally indicative of town.
AT NO OTHER POINT HAD YOU EXPLAINED WHY YOU WERE TOWNREADING HER.
SO IF YOU WEREN'T TOWNREADING HER, WHY THE FUCK WERE YOU DEFENDING HER SO HARD?
BECAUSE I WASN'T EVER DEFENDING HER YOU INCOMPENTENT TUNNELING ASS. IN EVERY SITUATION WHERE YOU CLAIMED I WAS DEFENDING HER, I WAS EXPRESSING A NULL READ ON HER. NULL. NULL IS NOT DEFENDING.
I'm so tired of the noise ratio in this game. Can someone just Vig RC already so we can have a proper game? I've been ill and just catching up and slogging through all the shitstorm made me feel worse than when I was legit physically ill.
catch 2 scum and they ask for you to be vigged.
Like, they asked for me to be vigged when I was about to lynch scum. Doesn't that concern anyone else?
Meh, this is just Drixx sick of having to read through all the noise. It's meaningless. Again, I recommend you go read other games by him, he frequently asks for people to be vigged who are causing a buncha noise. *shrug* You can read as much into it as you want,but he asked for a vig on jeanne in Suikoden for the same shit you're doing, and he's asked for vigs in plenty of other games, whenever someone is being an idiot in his opinion.
Also, the FA wagon isn't a lynch already 100% because people are still talking about shit. Why are you people so terrible that you want to end day fucking one, the best time to refer back to later in the game, earlier than you have to, when people are still fucking talking and bringing up new topics of discussion. An FA lynch is super likely to happen,sure, and guess what? If other lynches come up and start to get faster support, those wagons now give *MORE* information than an FA one does, AND increase the value of a future FA flip.
AKA, pushing the lynch away from FA again but without explaining a townread, just on some vague absurdities about how the FA lynch becomes more valuable later in the game.
Let's argue why the FA lynch is bad without arguing why she's town, mmk?
HOLY SHIT THE CONTEXT IS MISSING AGAIN. In this conversation, earlier this page, YOU tried to push the idea that a FA lynch is the most "informative" lynch even if she isn't scum. I responded to that assertion by telling you that information lynches are stupid, AND that counterwagons to FA are even more informative than the FA one is, because there is loads of context to those wagons when they occur.
When I defend someone, RC, you'll know it.
Yeah, you haven't been defending her this whole game.
ALREADY ADDRESSED.
RC, it doesn't matter, you're not going to lynch me tomorrow, all you're going to do is shit all over the thread trying. So I mean, if you want to do that fine, whatever. Just curious though, you said FA flipping town makes me 80% scum. What does FA flipping scum do?
Defending FA but worried about her scum flip.
No, I was wondering why you only addressed half of the question. If someone asks you what someones flip does to your read, you have thoughts on both sides of the matter, not just one.
Where, exactly, has there been room to scumhunt? You keep fucking talking to FA. Most of the game isn't even bothering to engage.
Oh I'm sorry are you mad that I'm extracting associatives from her?
What, you think I'm gonna fucking replace into a friend's game and then lynch them without even talking to them?
I couldn't possibly care less that she's your friend. That's meaningless. I'm irritated that right now I doubt anyone is going to want to reread D1 because of the mess you made all over, and D1 is THE MOST informative day in the late game. You made it the FA/RC show, and let the rest of the scum scurry in the dark.
I have never defended FA in any way. I've been in the washroom shitting my guts out for days and doing my very best to stay hydrated and out of the hospital. Apparently you are unfamiliar with the concept of a hydra.
Oh yea. I forgot.
Yes, that's from Drixx. He never said ANYTHING about FA during the entire early game when he wasn't playing. And nothing I said about her constitutes defense
.
