Open 623 (White Flag) - A Moment in Time (Over)

[Cerberus v666]

First!
VOTE: Cerberus
Die, dog of the devil.

Good choice. But I'm like, a robot dog. Not a devil dog. O.o

[Cerberus v666]

I love your avatar, Titus

Question for everyone:
Given that this setup is white flag, what do you think of bussing in this game? Will scum do it? More importantly, would you do it if you were scum?

I loathe bussing, I feel it is inelegant and I prefer to win perfect games. With that said, scum might do it?

What I'm interested in though, is why you're going out of your way to make us especially aware of the bussing possibiity, especially in a game where the setup is named after such tactics. Usually when someone pushes someone elss, it's because they believe they're on opposite teams, but here you're kind of making it seem like a push on someone is just as likely to be a bus attempt as anything else.

Hmm. I don't like the way I phrased the last sentencex but I think you know what I mean.

Cerberus, why no RVS?

I don't vote unless I have a compelling reason to. RVS is dumb, and I also find D1 to be rather uninspiring. I work off hard data that is, flips and dayplay/nightplay when taken in conjunction with the flips we have, to determine which players have taken lines which make compelling arguments that the are scum/others are town, so they must be scum through PoE.

Barring a need to absolutely push a lynch through towards deadline, or someone outright contradicting themselves, it's unlikely you'll see me put a vote down today or develop a hard read on anyone.

Not impossible, mind you. Just unlikely.

-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

I will not be using any associatives to scum-hunt this game.

This just caught my eye. Even if scum intentionally try to avoid associatives, they will still produce them. So why did you say this?

I view this as most likely a declaration of playstyle change/ a desire to use this game to try something different, before anyone calls him out on it. Doesn't seem likely to be alignment indicative.

Interested in seeing why he felt the need to mention this though.

[Cerberus v666]

This mechanic adds a lot of WIFOM to the game, and I'd rather not be a part of it.

@Rhazh I had to force it because I'm going to have to force myself not to scum-read people with associatives, even at a subconscious level.

@SirCakez What more to you want to hear? With the White Flag mechanic, scum's associatives are unpredictable. Why do you find using associatives are odd? Are you going to use them?

Let me get this straight...you're saying that because this setup has a history of motivating scum to bus, you are going to ignore ALL associative's so you don't fall prey to any such strategy?

[Cerberus v666]

AI must be a godplayer, three scumgets in three pages

I'm the bestest scumhunter in the world.

AI isn't voting scum. I caught two since post 18.

Whatever SS is at, he needs to die like now.

Was me.

I told myself I wouldn't hydra slip with this account. Lmfao.

Think of it as helping Drixx be a better moderator, now this game will show up for him even when he's in hydra with you.

Also, Titus, I'm pretty sure you're doing that thing I hate where you go off of like, nothing at all, and just decide a buncha people are scum. :-/

Speaking of Titus, who here is familiar with her, besides myself? And SS I guess, since she did say something about not being their IC anymore.

[Cerberus v666]

PC, Cow and Titus can go in the town pile.
SS and Rhazh can go in the scum pile.

Cerberus can be in the null pile alone.

YES! SUCK IT BITCHES, I HAVE A ROOM TO MYSELF!

Anyways, so you're buying titus' conclusion that scum totally slipped on P1 of D1?

pedit: hmm. Noted. I need to remind myself of what the hell that was, cause BM was kinda nailed to the wall for a lot more than just one post.

[Cerberus v666]

Do you object to my posting a reads list?

84 post reads list. *sigh* This should be entertaining. :p

Weird that you'd ask if anyone objects, I mean...everybody likes getting more content from people that's actually meaningful, town so they can sort them, scum so they can twist it. *shrug*

TheCow: I'm at work, and this is kinda my lowest priority if ya know what I mean.

Ask me stuff though and I'll gladly talk to you about whatever though.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and Titus, yes, I remember that. I mean, I'm not gonna sheep off that alone, but I do recall that interaction and I see the similarities here.

[Cerberus v666]

TheCow: I'm at work, and this is kinda my lowest priority if ya know what I mean.

Nah, I'm just interested in learning your posting style. Its standing out to me.

Ah Titus I understand your pov now.
SirCakez feels off to me.

Define "off"?

Pistachio, your read on Rhazh -- does "wary" mean you're scumleaning the slot, or just looking at it?

Gotcha. I have a number of completed games you can read if you have that much time? I do tend to post a lot though, so if you're trying to get a general sense of how I post, it'll probably come to you sooner rather than later.

[Cerberus v666]

Spoiler: post 14

I love your avatar, Titus

Question for everyone:
Given that this setup is white flag, what do you think of bussing in this game? Will scum do it? More importantly, would you do it if you were scum?

I loathe bussing, I feel it is inelegant and I prefer to win perfect games. With that said, scum might do it?

What I'm interested in though, is why you're going out of your way to make us especially aware of the bussing possibiity, especially in a game where the setup is named after such tactics. Usually when someone pushes someone elss, it's because they believe they're on opposite teams, but here you're kind of making it seem like a push on someone is just as likely to be a bus attempt as anything else.

Hmm. I don't like the way I phrased the last sentencex but I think you know what I mean.

Cerberus, why no RVS?

I don't vote unless I have a compelling reason to. RVS is dumb, and I also find D1 to be rather uninspiring. I work off hard data that is, flips and dayplay/nightplay when taken in conjunction with the flips we have, to determine which players have taken lines which make compelling arguments that the are scum/others are town, so they must be scum through PoE.

Barring a need to absolutely push a lynch through towards deadline, or someone outright contradicting themselves, it's unlikely you'll see me put a vote down today or develop a hard read on anyone.

Not impossible, mind you. Just unlikely.

-Cerb

This here quote made me interested in Cerberus. The wording a tone plus the length. Ending it on "-Cerb", too.

Spoiler: posts 69,74,86

AI must be a godplayer, three scumgets in three pages

I'm the bestest scumhunter in the world.

AI isn't voting scum. I caught two since post 18.

Whatever SS is at, he needs to die like now.

Was me.

I told myself I wouldn't hydra slip with this account. Lmfao.

Think of it as helping Drixx be a better moderator, now this game will show up for him even when he's in hydra with you.

Also, Titus, I'm pretty sure you're doing that thing I hate where you go off of like, nothing at all, and just decide a buncha people are scum. :-/

Speaking of Titus, who here is familiar with her, besides myself? And SS I guess, since she did say something about not being their IC anymore.

PC, Cow and Titus can go in the town pile.
SS and Rhazh can go in the scum pile.

Cerberus can be in the null pile alone.

YES! SUCK IT BITCHES, I HAVE A ROOM TO MYSELF!

Anyways, so you're buying titus' conclusion that scum totally slipped on P1 of D1?

pedit: hmm. Noted. I need to remind myself of what the hell that was, cause BM was kinda nailed to the wall for a lot more than just one post.

Do you object to my posting a reads list?

84 post reads list. *sigh* This should be entertaining. :p

Weird that you'd ask if anyone objects, I mean...everybody likes getting more content from people that's actually meaningful, town so they can sort them, scum so they can twist it. *shrug*

TheCow: I'm at work, and this is kinda my lowest priority if ya know what I mean.

Ask me stuff though and I'll gladly talk to you about whatever though.

The format is similar, but those things I found interesting are gone. 84 came later with the emotes. I found this bit strange.

The conclusion I drew was that post 14 is far more worked than the other posts an was supposed to be catchier, be this a conscious decision or not. The "-Cerb" bit looks like a habit from playing in hydras. Oddly bulky first post (based on previous games) so the decision was likely conscious. Requires further reading.

Oh, lol. Yes, I did make a conscious decision to tell a game full of people who don't know me about my standard play before I start getting crap about not voting. I mean, usually nobody mentions me not voting until a few VC's in, and THEN I give them the spiel, but this time it happened on the first page, so I gave him the spiel then. And yeah, I've been playing in hydras lately, so I just reflexively signed the post. *shrug*

The other important point is that the first post(If you consider I'm in PST) came while I was at home, chillin' and all the other posts have come while I'm here, at work, and have to be sneaky about posting, so I try to keep it brief when possible, unless I decide to pull up a notepad and compose outside of MS, then post.

Good eye though TheCow.

[Cerberus v666]

I vote, Titus, but not for reasons this weak.

Cakes: how does your read on SS relate to your read on rhazh?

[Cerberus v666]

1. Maybe you tend to read newbies more harshly (except for Dewy ).
2. You must think we're stupid, too.
3. Not to mention your case is really weak.

Give me some specific examples of SirCakez being obvious town.

1. Nope. Welcome to life outside the newbie queue. You do things that scum do, you get scumread. I am not the sole voter.
2. Absolutely not. I am reading you as desperate scum, not stupid. Why did you feel insulted? Do you feel your scumgame has been bad?

3. Why would you have 5 votes if my case was weak? It isn't. You'd be at L minus 1 but Cerb never votes so we have to wait on subs.

Town know Sir is town.

Also, I didn't explicitly say this before, or at least not in the detail I should have, but..your case is weak. Super duper weak. Not strong. "RVS push plus retraction claiming it's a joke is scum!" I mean sure, I get the logic, town wouldn't feel the need to be extra defensive there and pull super far back from an RVS vote, and would instead just shrug it off because it's fucking RVS, but why the hell can't it just be a personality quirk? SS and yourself know each other, is it really so unreasonable for him to feel the need to clarify that his suspicion on you was a joke, given that he might have enjoyed playing with you before and wanted to cooperate rather than be antagonistic from P2?

That btw, is how weak I think the RVS vote is a joke thing is, btw. I think even the chance that someone I don't even know might just have a personality that inclined them to make a joke about it outfuckingweighs that "tell".

The only reason why I might consider SS as scum is the move to vote the counterwagon to himself. That is survivalism, which might be alignment indicative, depending on how far it goes.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerberus r u being srs

Absolutely. What part of my post do you think isn't serious?

[Cerberus v666]

1. Maybe you tend to read newbies more harshly (except for Dewy ).
2. You must think we're stupid, too.
3. Not to mention your case is really weak.

Give me some specific examples of SirCakez being obvious town.

1. Nope. Welcome to life outside the newbie queue. You do things that scum do, you get scumread. I am not the sole voter.
2. Absolutely not. I am reading you as desperate scum, not stupid. Why did you feel insulted? Do you feel your scumgame has been bad?

3. Why would you have 5 votes if my case was weak? It isn't. You'd be at L minus 1 but Cerb never votes so we have to wait on subs.

Town know Sir is town.

Also, I didn't explicitly say this before, or at least not in the detail I should have, but..your case is weak. Super duper weak. Not strong. "RVS push plus retraction claiming it's a joke is scum!" I mean sure, I get the logic, town wouldn't feel the need to be extra defensive there and pull super far back from an RVS vote, and would instead just shrug it off because it's fucking RVS, but why the hell can't it just be a personality quirk? SS and yourself know each other, is it really so unreasonable for him to feel the need to clarify that his suspicion on you was a joke, given that he might have enjoyed playing with you before and wanted to cooperate rather than be antagonistic from P2?

That btw, is how weak I think the RVS vote is a joke thing is, btw. I think even the chance that someone I don't even know might just have a personality that inclined them to make a joke about it outfuckingweighs that "tell".

The only reason why I might consider SS as scum is the move to vote the counterwagon to himself. That is survivalism, which might be alignment indicative, depending on how far it goes.

I sort of understand your POV, so I am going to put you at fence-town.

Is this one of those "subtle but not really" LAMIST moves? "I see where you're coming from, so I'm thinking you might be town, because expressing a POV I can relate to means you're more likely to share my alignment...which is town, btw guys. Totally town."

I mean, I don't really see why expressing something which should be obvious to everyone should give me any town credit with anyone at all. :/

[Cerberus v666]

Hi I'm back. Had a friends bday yesterday and mostly ignored mafia except for kinda sorta keeping up. I see we have replacements. Good.

I think I only saw one thing directed at me, and it was just fluff, but I'll answer it:

The handle I use is cerberus v6.66. v6.66, as in version numbers. I'm well aware of the place of Cerberus in Greek mythology, it holds similar associations with their underworld as 666 does in judeo-christian mythos, thus the use of both in my name.

I think i saw a couple things worth noting, some contradictions that need correction, but I'll have to go reread a bit to be sure I'm not misremembering, which I'll do after DnD tonight.

Anybody have anything they'd like to discuss with me in the meanwhile?

[Cerberus v666]

I love your avatar, Titus

Question for everyone:
Given that this setup is white flag, what do you think of bussing in this game? Will scum do it? More importantly, would you do it if you were scum?

I loathe bussing, I feel it is inelegant and I prefer to win perfect games. With that said, scum might do it?

What I'm interested in though, is why you're going out of your way to make us especially aware of the bussing possibiity, especially in a game where the setup is named after such tactics. Usually when someone pushes someone elss, it's because they believe they're on opposite teams, but here you're kind of making it seem like a push on someone is just as likely to be a bus attempt as anything else.

Hmm. I don't like the way I phrased the last sentencex but I think you know what I mean.

Cerberus, why no RVS?

I don't vote unless I have a compelling reason to. RVS is dumb, and I also find D1 to be rather uninspiring. I work off hard data that is, flips and dayplay/nightplay when taken in conjunction with the flips we have, to determine which players have taken lines which make compelling arguments that the are scum/others are town, so they must be scum through PoE.

Barring a need to absolutely push a lynch through towards deadline, or someone outright contradicting themselves, it's unlikely you'll see me put a vote down today or develop a hard read on anyone.

Not impossible, mind you. Just unlikely.

-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

Cerberus
I read that as you saying you're not sharing reads. Is that a proper interpretation?

Titus
SS isn't scum with R. AI isn't scum with either of them.

So is your case merely against SS? Because I see it and recognize it, but I also think that the other two people you have grouped with him are a bad idea.

Not at all. It's me expressing a lack of certainty in anything, and thus a lack of certainty in reads because there's no data to work with. When I get back later and actually go through the game, I'll note anything interesting or worth mentioning, but, well...(I think I've been expressing this a lot lately, actually), I can generally find reasons why either scum or town would take any given action. Until we start getting flips and such, i can't eliminate any of the many theoretical scenarios I can imagine for most things.

Eh, nobody? I don't recall a single super scummy thing done by anyone, or any plays so ridiculous I couldn't imagine scum making them.

These are both the same question, btw. Maybe try asking me about someone in particular. I mean, when you say "If you had to vote someone, who would it be" or "what is your reads list", you're essentially asking me to evaluate the entire game and tell you who I feel is the scummiest(and why. I mean, I really hope you want to know why, rather than just accepting whatever i say at face value), and that's just not going to happen D1.

[Cerberus v666]

it would really help me
keep a few of you straight
if you please got avatars

That's eh, that's not happening. Try reading our names?

[Cerberus v666]

(Drixx, you already replaced Viva La Gloria and Victor_Mortimer)

Hi guys. So, I'm gonna go iso those two people being wagoned and see if I think you're all wrong about them.

Thanks. I keep the previous vote count on hand so I can easily update it and overlooked removing that. ~Drixx

[Cerberus v666]

Best to just play the game naturally instead of planning out our strategies D1. If I don't know what I'm doing the Mafia surely can't counter my play.

I think you're scum with SS. Discuss.

I think you're scum with Rhazh and you're distancing.

So, the epic post that started all this shit. Why is this such a big deal? It reads like an obvious joke to me. Rhazh throws shade on Titus, Titus responds by suggesting that he's scum with SS, in a fashion that certainly sounds like it might be a joke, particularly with the whole "Discuss." bit at the end, and SS makes a post insinuating that the two of them are actually scum together, and it reads as facetious to me.

Phantom why are scum's associatives unpredictable? The mechanic does not even kick in until two scum remain, what makes you think they will play differently with three alive?

Can you rephrase this? It sounds like you're advocating for both sides here.

Okay.
Phantom, you said that you will ignore associatives in this game. You claimed this was because "the scum's associatives will be unpredictable." However, for the first few days this game plays no different from a normal game. So the scum's associatives will be just as predictable as they usually are. So what makes you say that?

So, you ask this sequence of questions of phantomcobalt with regards to the associatives thing, but you never really share what effect his sequence of answers had on you...but below, he's in your leaning scum pile. It feels weird that you ask these questions, get a slightly scummy feeling from his answers, but DON'T keep pushing him about other topics to solidify your read.

VOTE: Rhazh
Attacking people without voting to support it, making unprompted references to what the scum want or do, inconsistencies in play. Overall feels like he is trying to fit in and play like everyone else is.

What are the inconsistencies in play? Attacking people without voting to support it is weird, but it depends on the strength of the attack, really...and the player. If you know he always votes whenever he attacks someone, then sure, it's reasonable to be suspicious of it. I almost never vote people I attack(kinda because I tend to make extremely strong cases, in the event I determine someone is super likely scum, and I'm more concerned with the day ending before we discuss more than I am with supporting my case with a vote). Unprompted references to what scum want or do is whatever. I don't understand why you think that's scummy. Where's the scum motivation in doing so? What does he, as scum, get out of it? I'd like some more explanation of the idea of he's "trying to fit in and play like everyone else is".

I don't like Cakez because he's making unsupported statements while overly explaining his actions. He gives the feeling of scum trying not to stand out.
VOTE: SirCakez

This is weird too. Unless you're implying cakez is super nub scum, I don't buy the idea that scum!cakez would go out of his way to attack someone with things which are untrue, and fabricate reasons for having those opinions. People do plenty of dumb things as town, you don't need to make up reasons to attack someone as scum, they'll give you reasons. Even if he *would* do that, what do you mean he gives the feeling of scum trying not to stand out? like, wtf? Making unsupported statements is definitely a way to fucking stand out. So is "overexplaining" things. Your reason for an expressed dislike of the slot here doesn't really mesh with what you're accusing him of doing.

Something_Smart is probably town.

Speaking of buddying look at that first sentence.

Actually, I get the feeling that AI is more whiteknighting me. I could definitely see a SirCakez-AI team playing both sides of the wagon and soft double bussing.
Cerb and Titus on the other hand feel town to me.
Phantom is annoying and could go either way. Rhazh as well.
Pistachi0n is ok, seems honest and genuine enough.
Yonom's done very little except jump onto L-2 with scummy reasoning. Also, interestingly, she made almost the same joke as me, and caught no flak at all for it...

you know what
VOTE: AlwaysInnocent
This is both whiteknighting and buddying, and it's unacceptable.

also townreading someone who is scumreading you is fine
but townreading someone FOR scumreading you is scummy.

Alright, so this sequence of posts.

First of all, does this mean Cakez-AI are your top scumreads? Why is whiteknighting actually scummy? This is a flawed thought I always see people express. As town, if you strongly townread someone, YOU SHOULDN'T LET THEM GET LYNCHED. Sure, scum buddy, and this may be a method of doing so, but it's not innately scummy. Townreading someone for scumreading you is scummy? What? Why? This again depends on the player, but if you know your style leads people to scumread you as town, it's perfectly reasonable to think that someone who scumread you is doing so from a town perspective.

I feel town? So you agree with AI about my slot? Even though you're voting him here? Phantom is annoying. And placed as null here. So is Rhazh. Noted. Yonom is attacked a bit here for their vote on you, but we'll see where they end up in your reads list 40 posts later.

Yonom, why do you not expect town to be scumhunting? I am focusing on the players I think are scum. It just so happens that two of the three I don't like are on my wagon, a wagon which half the players who have posted are on.

If you don't think that's how town should act, please tell me why what you are doing is any different.

Aside from this, there are several inconsistencies in your most recent post. The claim that I am first and foremost attacking people on my wagon is not even accurate. My vote is on one of the TWO players actually defending me.

Secondly, you spent an entire paragraph saying why your vote is to increase pressure and you don't necessarily want to lynch me, and then turn around and say I'm scummy, with only confbias as a reason.

Right now, my biggest scumreads are AlwaysInnocent and Yonom. If other people could let me know what their thoughts are regarding these players, I would appreciate it.

Meh. Quick read of AI's iso leaves nothing pinging, I'd have to actually read it and pull quotes and shit like I'm doing right now with you, and I don't want to deal with that atm. Now, Yonom, she only has 9 posts. that's way more manageable. Her 115 about you is stupid and terrible. "jumping too conclusions too fast and too randomly isn't scummy behavior". I find it less likley that scum would just throw shit at half the game than town would do so. However, unlike what you said in your 158, the reasoning isn't scummy. It's just, like, wrong. wrong!=scummy. I'm not so sure about 171 though. Like, what does she mean by "waiting for better options"? Does Yonom typically look to apply early pressure through votes to reaction test people? Is that what sort of better option she was looking for? That bit just confuses me.

That's a good idea.

{Something_Smart}

{Titus, Cerberus v666}

{pistachi0n, TheCow}

{Viva La Gloria, Victor_Mortimer, NotAnAlt}

{Yonom, PhantomCobalt}

{RhazhBash, SirCakez}

{AlwaysInnocent}

And Rhazh you realize there is a difference between "a joke" and "a page 3 read that I don't want people to see as a huge commitment but that is my strongest so far". To say that it wasn't serious is a misrepresentation.

Droog's entrance was good, Eagle's was fine. People are saying they don't like my reads though, what about them don't you like?

I don't like that yonom and phantomcobalt occupy the same tier of your list, when you attack yonom above and have her as your strongest scum read, next to AI. How did AI and rhazhbash wedge their ways in between yonom and AI in your reads? What dropped them below yonom, or raised yonom up to phantoms level. Also, phantom and rhazh are both described as null the last time you mentiond them, but here they're both on the scum side of the line. Right now, you're basically expressing suspicion of a Rhazh/cakez/AI team. That's in line with your earlier thought that you could see a cakez/AI team, but where does rhazhbash fit into that equation?

I don't have anything to say about the people who you're townreading, because whatever. it's what you expressed earlier, there's no inconsistencies, etc.

I'll look into cakez later, probably.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerberus:
About PC, I don't like his accusation that my posts to him were "useless theory fluff" when he was the one who brought up the theory. I haven't pushed him because he hasn't been at the top of my scum list.

Hmm. Read required, I don't recall the accusation that your posts were useless theory fluff. Also, he's right, NAA first brought up the idea, but...his answer was weird. I don't think it was like he directly answered the question, he was just like "Oh yeah, btw, I'm not going to be paying any attention to associatives ever."

About Yonom, I felt a little better about her after her responses to my attacks, particularly where she acknowledged her fallacy.

Gotcha. Hmm. Not enough content with her for me to have any real opinion on how reasonable this thought is.

About Rhazh, he's not being very helpful and he seems to be subtly egging on my wagon.

How so? Again, something I need to check his iso for. You said subtle, so...i'll look.

And another thing- I don't necessarily expect my 3 biggest scumreads to be the scumteam. So I don't think all my scumreads need to "fit in".

it would really help me
keep a few of you straight
if you please got avatars

That's eh, that's not happening. Try reading our names?

Why are you so against having an avatar? Are you trying to make a statement? Are you morally opposed to avatars? Would you having an avatar be like a false idol that fails to represent your greatness? What gives?

I couldn't care less about having an avatar. As something I don't care about, it's not worth however little time it would take to get an avatar and set it up. As someone who doesn't care, doing it would be solely for the benefit of the *many* people who have asked me to get one, and none of you matter enough to me to me on a personal level for me to spend even a second doing something for you. *shrug*

Basically, I won't do it because there is no benefit to me, and doing it for the benefit of someone else I don't care about is meh.

Now, if you WERE someone I thought was super cool, I'd probably tell you that I'm not gonna do it because I said so.

I like the whole "false idol that fails to represent my greatness" line though. I think i'm going to steal it. From now on, that will be the excuse I'll give. ^^

Also, interesting perspective cakez. I'll keep it in mind when I look over your ISO. I do believe SS isn't the only person who has displayed similar confidence. Others have even voted using a similar template of vote: x. Reason, Reason, Reason. I'll check the thread and remind you of it so you can tell me what the difference is between SS and those slots.

[Cerberus v666]

actually hold up

As someone who doesn't care, doing it would be solely for the benefit of the *many* people who have asked me to get one, and none of you matter enough to me

are you on the *town* faction
with other *townies*
who share your interests
and benefit you when you benefit them
???????

This question about avatars isn't game related. Trying to say I have some sort of obligation to get an avatar because it would "benefit" the town and thus be playing towards my win con is ridiculous. Getting one is just a thing I don't want to do.

[Cerberus v666]

actually hold up

As someone who doesn't care, doing it would be solely for the benefit of the *many* people who have asked me to get one, and none of you matter enough to me

are you on the *town* faction
with other *townies*
who share your interests
and benefit you when you benefit them
???????

I don't think he's town so I don't know how far you'll get with this but I might be wrong I guess.

Is this because I don't do reads on D1, or is there some other reason?

[Cerberus v666]

no
the issues is that your first reaction was
"theres no one i care about who would benefit"

*shrug* it's just the truth. I don't view the avatar thing as being even slightly game relevant. If it's not game relevant, it comes down to my personal feelings about having an avatar, which are no, I don't feel like getting one, and my feeling about those who want me to get one, which are fuck off you don't matter to me. If you *do* feel that it's game relevant, then, well, I suppose we simply disagree.

It is game related and it is to the benefit of the town.

I dare you to try to play a game with no avatars and I can promise you it is a lot harder to keep track of everyone.

PEdit: it's because of a lot of things, but even if you are town you're playing an anti-town game.

Saying I'm playing an anti-town game is a rather major statement to make. You can say I'm doing an anti-town thing, and you're welcome to hold that opinion, but saying I'm playing an anti-town game is a much bigger deal. Can you elaborate which one you intended?

@Cerb, That post was not a joke. You'll find I don't joke much. I was detecting a sudden desire by Rh to talk theory, drag the game down and not focusing on SS. I was pressuring there. I am rather surprised you find me using the word "Discuss" as a joke. You know I am super serious compared to most.

@all, Can anyone give me a reason on Cakez beyond he's obvtown and pushing scum...like really

hmph. Point taken Titus. Your seriousness isn't really important, what's important is how that post may have been interpreted. I think it's reasonable to say it may have been interpreted as less than serious. If he thought it WAS serious, and did the whole joke/backing off thing, whatever...then we get to talk about the idea of whether or not this "tell" is a good one. I'm still at the point where I'm not even sure the post you made was interpreted as you intended it, which is a good way off of the point I need to be at to be talking about the scum tell. I read his whole iso, you see stuff above. His responses to my concerns were...reasonable. Not great, but it wasn't like he was fumbling over himself to explain the contradictions I pointed out.

pedit: Titus could always be scum. I've never played with her in a game without a decent number of PR's, and I think she was a VT in only one of those games(and I had her nailed as town from like, super duper early on), so it's hard for me to analyze her early game play since her play in our previous games has always been greatly influenced by the PR she had, if my recollection is correct.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, one more point to Eagle: I lose track of what avatars belong to what people. Having the avatars arguably makes it harder for me to keep track of the game. Peoples individual posting styles and the idiosyncrasies in their phrasing do a lot more to identify who made a post for me than a silly picture next to their name.

And yes, that should be enough said about the avatar thing.

[Cerberus v666]

Sorry guys, I've been pouring my energy into other things. 'll fix that tomorrow a.m., I'll back burner some other shit.

[Cerberus v666]

Okay, engage with me guys. I'm at work, but I'm gonna be focusing my mafia energy over here. Are we still fixated on the wagons that were started on the first 2 pages of the game?

[Cerberus v666]

Okay, going through AI's ISO.

43: votes NAA, which is, umm, idk. Not sure if serious or joke. States obviously a lurker, because he had one post, 43 posts into the game. 43 posts in on a 13 player game means you could expect people to have slightly over 3 posts per slot if everyone posts equally. 1 post so far isn't lurker level, and I think his one post was...well, it was the post that took us out of RVS, unless this vote counts as a return to it. Let's see how serious he takes the lurker vote thing. I'm quite fond of lynching lurkers early game, generally(probably because I'm usually way more fucking involved with interactions in the game, it's weird playing a vanilla game), but that reason for declaring someone a lurker seems weak.

44: SS is scum for emphasizing his rvs joke, the same thing that Titus is going after him for.

61: Phantom is now scum for his statement that he won't play off associatives. The allegation here that Phantom is somehow encouraging people to not use associatives and wants them to ignore them by bringing them up and making them a topic of conversation is questionable.

72: Only questions SirCakez' Titus townread. Why wouldn't he care about why PC is a townread of SirCakez? He just said he thought Phanton was scum, for a super shitty reason, sure, but wouldn't he question someone elses townread on that slot? Why questioning Titus?

77: Asks for an explanation of SirCakez thinking he's scum. Reasonable.

92: Smarmy OMGUS.

94: Explains why he thinks Titus shouldn't be townread this early...or no, he doesn't. He just says he thinks it's idiotic, or scummy. Too much faith in Titus' scum game? Hmm.

96: Oh, here's the explanation that should have come in 94. Lots of assumptions here. He assumes people know Titus. He assumes those who know Titus, have experience with her scum game. He assumes those who have experience with her scum gave, have experience with it in a game where she didn't get autolynched on D1(which is a thing that happens to Titus ALL THE TIME, regardless of alignment). This argument is dumb, because he's not stating specific instances or reasons *why* he has these expectations of specific slots. I need to read the rest of the game and see if anybody else displays a positive read on Titus, and if he ever reacts to them, or if townreading Titus is only bad now.

132; More OMGUS'like behavior. Someone suspecting you does not make them scum. Likelihood that scum!Titus attacks a person who is telling the town to be cautious about her but has presented no case or reasoning why they should be cautious, nor actually called her scum: Extremely low.

135: SS is town. Was scum in 44. Fill this gap for me please AI, why did SS become town?

144: Explain? If SirCakez is town, how doe this reflect on NAA? If NAA is town, how that does reflect on SirCakez? Same for if either flips town. I would like to see the thought process behind this statement.

146: yeah, he's right, NAA has been lurking. He's had some content in his posts, and he's not proddodging and being wholly useless, but he definitley isn't active in this game.

151/153: 151 addressed in my 152. 153 is low level thinking. No consideration of wifom or deliberate twisting of my behaviors in order to garner town reads. Not sure what it means. It's a reasonable explanation for thinking I'm town and a reasonable way to approach things, but the lack of paranoia concerns me.

158: Ah. Here we have someone else townreading Titus, but no concern about why they're townreading her this time. Inconsistent. Why is SS' townread on Titus more acceptable that SirCakez?

168: I agree. I expressed it in my readthrough of SS' iso. the whiteknighting/buddying argument is dumb.

199: Defense of SS during SirCakez' questioning of SS' reasons for his 70. SirCakez is right, the reasons SS gives for the Rhazh vote are certainly more than just "mildly scummy". Why would you even vote off of "mildly scummy"? Kinda terribad. No idea why he would say this as either alignment.

200: Rhazh is fence townish! Why? Who knows, we don't need reasons!

210; Readlist is is consistent with all previous statements. I approve.

275: AI is right here. Those behaviors are NAI.

320: Titus remains scum, because...asking for reasons to scumread SirCakez?

323; Fuck gut. That's what this all boils down to? Gut? I mean, I guess that explains why it doesn't always make sense. *sigh*

370: Yonom town? What? More gut?

371: Stupid. This is the worst reason for making a vote in this entire game. If there had been a wagon on thecow at this time, I would recommend we lynch AI with extreme prejudice. There wasn't, though, so...null.

387: SirCakez is less scum, like way less. Like, he's as town as...PC? What? When did PC start becoming less scummy? ugh. Just so much wrong with this. AI, can you pleae compare these two reads lists, and tell us what prompted the moves everyone made in your reads? Oh, and fuck. I'm like, now super town read? I think I wasn't even posting during this time? Maybe I did say something, but it probably wasn't significant? Maybe I made that wall on SS? Fuck. I don't even know. Just, like, explain this AI.

399: And refusal to actually explain why his reads changed.

Well. Hmm. I see scummy shit in there. I see town consistency though, other than on the question of why people are townreading Titus, up until his second reads list. :-/

Few questions scattered throughout that I'd like AI to answer.

[Cerberus v666]

Is that directed at me or someone else Eagle? I didn't say I thought he was scum, I was just asked what my thoughts on him were. Inconsistency in views, that is, he attacks one person for holding a certain view, but not someone else/doesn't question someone on why they're townreading one of his scumreads, but questions them about another, and he has some movements in his reads list that are never hinted at before they happen, are the things that I see a a questionable. Not necessarily scum, but things I want answers on.

[Cerberus v666]

The inconsistency isn't in your reads. It's in how you react to others statements about your reads, or their reads on people you have a differing opinion on. I also don't expect people to always vote the same people, but I expect a trail of logic along your narrative/some explanation for why the reads have shifted rhe way they have.

[Cerberus v666]

Yes, why you care about some people townreading titus more than others, and why you chose to ignore townreads made by the same person on other scumreads of yours.

[Cerberus v666]

Droog: you're missing the point. I get why he thinks that, and I think it's crap logic too. The point is he reacted differently to different people who had a town read on Titus, pushing one about that read, and ignoring someone else.

[Cerberus v666]

So you're familiar with SirCakez, and know he has had experience with Titus, and are not familiar with SS?

[Cerberus v666]

Nice SS. That's a good thing, maybe. Just make me happy and give me some reasons for why the changes have happened.

[Cerberus v666]

/me waves at Firebringer.

[Cerberus v666]

If you're serious, I'm sorry. I'm glad to see you here. Voting on the biggest wagon as a placeholder though is kinda not so good. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

No, it is not. That is strategically replacing out. It is not acceptable. Not saying people don't do it, I don't know if anyone has but I do know it's against the rules and ban worthy.

This is a useless conversation that does nothing to find scum though.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, how have your reads changed since like page 2 when you thought you had 2 scum caught? Then later, you listed 3 as scum. Do you feel the same about those slots (please remind me which ones they were, I can't check your iso right now).

[Cerberus v666]

I don't have a firm grasp on Titus this game. Not even a weak graap, honestly. I've played with her enough to expect to have some sort of lean one way or the other generally, but I don't this game. Her behavior differs from all my previous games with her, I think, in that she's been quite passive after that initial declaration regarding her suspicion of SS etc, but passivity is not in line with my experiences with her as either alignment. This is the second time I've seen her with a vanilla role (I generally only play theme/role madness games) though, and the other time she was hydraing with a hyperactive poster, so it's possible this is just what she does when she can't do any further scheming or planning for her play early game. She's tunneling, which is normal for her, and that's about all I can say for certain.

Basically, this is me doing this:¯\_(ツ)_/¯ with regards to her for the time being. Titus is, imo, almost always a terrible early game lynch, so I'm opposed to lynching her in general without a good reason (which viva has failed to provide), but she's not someone I'd defend based on her play..

[Cerberus v666]

Viva: because I know for a fact she's both lynch bait at times AND very strong late game. Oh and I'm confident she'll be able to be read with more certainty later in the game. You're right that if she's scum we should lynch her, but I don't see anything particularly scummy in her play. The Yonom thing is rhe closest to being scummy, amd Yonom said stuff in the middle which could have very easily changed her mind on them.

Also, you're misunderstanding whoever it was you quoted in that shitty context removed quote. He said YOUR reads are off, and so are Titus', but maybe his are too.

To be perfectly clear here: I lynch people because they're being scummy, and their actions have scum motivations, NOT because they're not being "town" enough for me. Not obvtown!=scum. Especially on D1. Later on we can PoE things and use some logic, but right now? Nope. Not good enough.

[Cerberus v666]

Viva: because I know for a fact she's both lynch bait at times AND very strong late game. Oh and I'm confident she'll be able to be read with more certainty later in the game. You're right that if she's scum we should lynch her, but I don't see anything particularly scummy in her play. The Yonom thing is rhe closest to being scummy, amd Yonom said stuff in the middle which could have very easily changed her mind on them.

Also, you're misunderstanding whoever it was you quoted in that shitty context removed quote. He said YOUR reads are off, and so are Titus', but maybe his are too.

To be perfectly clear here: I lynch people because they're being scummy, and their actions have scum motivations, NOT because they're not being "town" enough for me. Not obvtown!=scum. Especially on D1. Later on we can PoE things and use some logic, but right now? Nope. Not good enough.

Then why the hell is she refusing to explain her reads.
I voted her to get her to explain her shit. She did not explain her shit besides saying 'oh check my ISO' where I still find her shit utterly unexplained.
She does not get to play the "OH IM LYNCHBAIT" card and you shouldn't be playing it for her when

she's utterly unable to substantiate her positions.

Why are you making excuses for her? Why is everyone making excuses for her?
Why isn't she asking questions about people making excuses for her.
She is clearly not making effort to scumhunt, her positions are clearly inauthentic. You were FoSing her and picking at her reads and all of a sudden you're townreading her?
Why?

The bolded is valid. She really should have more to say. I really think she's basing it entirely on a tell which has worked twice for her in the past, and which she thinks always holds true. If she's basing her tunnel off just that, I don't think there's really any argument we can make or any more reason she'd have to give us. Which is shitty. But it's not any shittier than saying "gut" when someone asks you why you read something, and that's somehow acceptable.

Also, when the hell did I FoS her?

[Cerberus v666]

Vote Count 1.6

AlwaysInnocent {0} -

Yonom

,

TheCow

,

Something_Smart

,

Firebringer

Cerberus v666 {0} -

Something_Smart

,
Viva La Gloria {0} -

AlwaysInnocent

,
PhantomCobalt {0} -

AlwaysInnocent

,
pistachi0n {0} -
Firebringer {0} -

Something_Smart

,
SirCakez {4} -

RhazhBash

, pistachi0n,

AlwaysInnocent

,

Something_Smart

,

Extrapolated Eagle

, Viva La Gloria, Droog,

Something_Smart

, Firebringer
Something_Smart {5} - SirCakez, Titus,

TheCow

, PhantomCobalt, Yonom, Extrapolated Eagle,

Firebringer

TheCow {0} -

Always Innocent

Titus {1} - AlwaysInnocent
Extrapolated Eagle {1} - Something_Smart
Droog {0} -
Yonom {0} -

PhantomCobalt

,


Not Voting (4): Cerberus v666, TheCow

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2016-01-27 22:00:00) from now, or January 27th, 10:00 PM Eastern (GMT-5).

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

Are you having doubts Titus? This is the first time I've seen you display uncertainty about this read.

Also, I agree that the post pistachion made is icky, but it is exactly how people are going to react. Just how people are.

[Cerberus v666]

Holy shit. Okay, umm. Viva, what you're doing is the definition of a death tunnel. Maybe you're fucking right (I haven't seen anything from Titus to make me feel strongly about her in any way), but the WAY you're doing this is incredibly anti-town. You're ridiculous push almost put us at L-1 less than a day into the phase. Answering: lol speedlynch me if I'm wrong is bullshit if you're town, because now you're fucking asking for two mislynches in a row. Go directly to LYLO with 0 scum flips, do not pass go. How about you give us a REAL appraisal of the game state, starting with the assumption that Titus is conftown. I am very interested in seeing where your reasoning leads you. Remember, if Titus is conftown, people who have disagreed with you about lynching her aren't automatically scum anymore!

TheCow: is this a wagon because he's useless? Is that basically what I'm looking at? Oh, and "meta". "Lolhammered town" Yeah, right, because scum wouldn't be SUPER aware of the fact that they're blatantly hammering town. Are you telling me TheCow is Uber and next leveling us here? He made rhe blatant lolhammer play assuming we'd think "No fucking way scum just did that?" No offense, the cow, but I assume competence in scum teams, not inspired play, competence alone does not make that play make sense, and I don't have nearly enough experience with TheCow to assume he's capable of taking that line.

So, yeah. Give me more guys. Titus had a stupid tell that worked for her a few times before and she placed her faith in it, and TheCow is a useless lurksack. Does anybody actually have any more reason for having lynch worthy certainty the wagon they're on is on scum?

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb, The last person who lol hammered town like that was scum. Second, his lol hammer after avoiding the wagon just is terrible. I am at meta farts with the cow (still don't know what meta there) but oh well.

Still perfectly fine with a Pistachion wagon as well. His statement that he'd want me looked into yesterday combined with his reluctance to vote me when the eventuality came to pass isn't townie either.

Now, you cannot just shit all over the existing scumhunting while providing none of your own.

True. I'll get around to isoing everyone after work today, spent yesterday being sick.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, any further thoughts before someone hammers? I want to fucking iso you and figure out if this is just people being stupid and blindly following a deathtunnel, or if there's merit to it, but I won't be able to do that until tonight (hopefully?) And I don't know if I'll get the chance to.

Actually, if you guys wouldn't mind like...talking about other shit and not hammering for, say 12 hours? I would be very appreciative. I'll hammer myself if it looks like there's actual merit to the wagon, but give me some time to get home and actually focus on this game?

[Cerberus v666]

Cool, done reading Titus' ISO. Wasn't even worth quoting stuff from. it's 80% talking about tunneling SS and AI and Rhazh(but mainly SS). The rest of the ISO is fucking useless for determining alignment, except for two points.

1) She reevaluated her reads, dropped her tunnel when she was wrong, and pushed TheCow and Pistachion for objectively scummy behavior. This is null to slightly town. It's a bit too obviously opportunistic for me to expect scum!Titus to make this move, but it's possible she knows the field better than I do and didn't think they'd read too deep.

2) Similarly, the vote in 1007 on Viva and the creation of a 1v1 when she's already behind, rather than finding someone to deflect attention onto, is not scum behavior at all. She was practically signing her death warrant there, and again, I find it unlikely that she made this play with the intention of people taking her at anything other than face value and read it as scum making a deliberately sub-optimal move...it looks like town just saying fuck it.

So, yeah, those two points mean I'm not going to be voting Titus at this juncture. I will, however, given her new status as my homegirl, be isoing TheCow, Pistachion, and Viva now. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

TheCow

89 :interest in pistachion and SS' read on sircakez
109: questions 83 vs 104. Misrepresented SS's sequence of "express suspicion of Sircakez, then vote him later" as a flip in his opinion. Misunderstanding?
343 :Titus/Cakes/Cerb solid town, AI minor town, yonom scumlean, EE scum, pistachion is a "black sheep", PC, NAN are null. Rhazh is probably just a bad player, but not actually scum.
588: dislikes both viva and titus
593: dislikes how titus presents their arguments, wants to SS flip to put titus into perspective.
632: "dissolving reads list pending reread" Hmm.
654: declaration of intent to hammer SS.
680: calls out PC for having two nulls, when he had multiple nulls in his own reads list. :-/ Hypocrisy!=scum. but weird.
759: declaration of refusal to vote for SS because he looks town now
805: lolhammer.

D2

857: votes pistachion. Gone are the previous reads, as declared in 632 I guess? I don't like that. Did you go read pistachions meta TheCow? Or was there some reason for him going from a black sheep, as you put it, to hard scum?
919: Down to wagon EE, so, back to consistency with prewipe reads
934: votes titus, null.
961: pistachion, EE, Titus are scum. Alright.

759>805>future distancing from the decision by saying "A man does what he says he's going to do" really bugs me. He said he wasn't going to vote SS, after all, didn't he? It's inconsistent, and I hate lolhammers.

He gets to be slightly scummy, for the inconsistencies, and the convenient dissolution of reads. I mean, reevaluating reads based on new events is cool, but what he did basically gave him carte blanche for changing his story. Might be more than slightly scummy, actually. Hmm.

pedit: I never even said she was null-townish? There was nothing alignment indicative in her play until today. Just a buncha stupid tunneling off a stupid tell that she now knows isn't perfect.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh lol. YOu were referring to me saying the behavior in point 1 was null to slightly town. Yeah, no, it's the second point that's the slam dunk there. Why the hell do you set yourself up to 1v1 the person who you weren't even scum reading before in a super OMGUS? It looks INCREDIBLY scummy at first glance, and as such it's too fucking obvious. It's just NOT going to happen unless you're in a game with a LOT of players who you know really really REALLY well.

[Cerberus v666]

84: suspicious of rhazh and sircakez, who is fluffy and trying too hard, and votes sircakez.
178: dislikes SS' 177.

Some NAI theory stuff, interacting with SirCakez.

386: Thinks AI's 371 is a gambit of some kind, probably scum

389, 394, 397: Clear scumhunting, trying to get in AI's head. Did he ever actually give her a proper answer to 397?

663: Excellent analysis. Declares SS wagon is terrible. Cakez, AI, and Titus are top scumreads.

689: More pressure on AI

692, 694, 696, 701: Notes SS' inconsistency in frequent vote changes early game, but refusal to move it later in the day. Notes suspicion of SS at this point due to the convenience of changing styles once it got him negative attention.

706: Vote on SS, while stating suspicion of Titus and AI dependent upon SS' flip. Pistachion, can you explain why SS scum=AI scum? Also, what happened to sircakez as scum here? Is he just not in the picture at all anymore, or does this flip not reflect upon him in any way? I hate this vote, btw, Information lynch, etc. It's pretty terrible, but the logic with regards to titus kinda held, and may hold for AI, depends.

D2

958: Town!Titus=EE scum. Why?

I need her answers to my questions to give any sort of meaningful final appraisal. I don't know if this Titus push is opportunistic or real. No suspicion of Titus prior to 663, once the wagon was going strong, which makes it feel potentially fabricated.

Need more information.

pedit: AI, do you honestly find it likely that scum!Titus tunneled the shit out of town D1 without giving anything resembling a good reason to fall back on, and then basically said "fight me" to the person leading the push on her, when the sentiment of town was completely against her, and doing so looked scummy as hell?

[Cerberus v666]

Meant to get around to viva this morning but I woke up right on time rather than early, leaving me no time for this atm. Pistachion, you didn't answer my questions. I'll handle viva and...idk who else, after work.

[Cerberus v666]

I find it extremely improbable that she would take that line as scum. I disagree with AI's appraisal of Titus' scum play. So, yeah, she's probtown. Likely as close to conftown as we're gonna get in a game without PRs.

[Cerberus v666]

*shrug* I've played with Titus in nearly every game I've had on this site, caught her as scum myself the one time I've seen her as scum, and discussed her way of playing the game with both her and others.

Grsnted, all that certainly makes me more vulnerable to bias simply because I like her, but if you were to replace her name with someone I didn't know, and I saw them, at L-2, after having been the origin of a wagon that got town lynched on D1, go and vote their main aggressor with the words "Kill me or them, I can't take the noise" or whatever her exact words were, I would tell you they were town 90% of the time.

Add in the fact that it's Titus, who I've seen demand 1v1s numerous times as town? That just makes it even more likely.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah.
I really don't like Cerberus's weird stance on the Titus wagon and I think they could easily be scumbuddies here.
His jump from scumreading her at the beginning to 'homegirl' at the end strikes me as bizarre and straining credulity.
I also really don't like how he was the one who prompted me to start investigating Titus but when I did he 180d and completely lost interest in her wagon.

I remember started reading your ISO, and I saw that you attributed your Titus suspicion to me. I don't believe I ever expressed any particular suspicion of Titus at, well, any point in this game. I mean, not any more suspicion than for anybody else. It may have been quoted in that post, but if it wasn't, would you mind telling me what I said that got you interested in Titus?

And, it's more like I made a 90 degree turn. She was null, i read her shit, a couple things simply don't make sense for scum!Titus to me, she's PoE'd out of consideration as scum until I have to consider her out of paranoia when we're in lylo and she isn't dead yet.

Yeah.
I really don't like Cerberus's weird stance on the Titus wagon and I think they could easily be scumbuddies here.
His jump from scumreading her at the beginning to 'homegirl' at the end strikes me as bizarre and straining credulity.
I also really don't like how he was the one who prompted me to start investigating Titus but when I did he 180d and completely lost interest in her wagon.

What specifically strikes me as odd about it is the use of the word "conftown" from Cerb. It seems out of character considering his philosophy about the game. It wouldn't be as odd if he had merely said Titus was a townread.

I said probtown, and as close to conftown as we can get. Conftown is impossible in this game, but when behaviors occur that simply don't make sense for scum, I have to establish that person as outside of my pool of potential suspects. She's the first and only slot among those I've looked into whose given me cause to call her probtown. *shrug*

I do get your point, but I think you've only encountered my play and thoughts, pistachion, in games which had role madness and the potential for conftowning individuals without seeing their actual flip. The degree of certainty I demand is naturally higher in those situations than here.

Also, I've been stupid busy, but I should get around to that viva isoing tonight at least, although I might look into droog first and see if there is any reason in his iso for him getting nk'd. I'm not too familiar with his play, so I have no idea why he'd be considered, except I guess maybe because nobody at all seemed to have any suspicions about him.

[Cerberus v666]

So i'm kinda of caught up I think. I need to go back and look over some ISOs still but I wanted to touch on a couple of things...

Can somebody on the Titus is scum wagon give me a quick summary of why? Nothing jumped out at me while I was reading.

If SS does flip town somehow then I would obviously reevaluate my reads. My reads right now are based on SS being scum.

How have your reads changed now that you know ss was town?

Read Viva's ISO Karnage, if you want basically every reason to think Titus is scum. Short version is her push on a town slot yesterday was bad, but there is more to it than just that. I kinda see it myself, but I just don't see a couple things she's done coming from scum!Titus.

[Cerberus v666]

Viva, I feel like you misunderstood those first two posts about Titus. The first one I asked her if her reads had changed at all since she hadn't been talking about the other two, which has nothing to do with how I read her. It's part of how I determine alignments, but I ask everyone shit like that. In the second, I make a post of me saying I have no fucking clue how I feel about how. I use a funny ASCII dude shrugging to indictate my read on her. How do you get me saying I scumread her out of that???? You're accusing me of scumread>townread, with no reasons, when it was null>townread, with fucking reasons.

[Cerberus v666]

Viva, I'd like to hear your answer to Titus' question too.
EE, thanks for suggesting I've put a lot of work in, but honestly I feel like I'm barely participating or analyzing anything. I'm used to large themes, and playing a game with less extramafia stuff to work with honestly makes me disengaged....

Anyways, you asked for scum leads, and thecow is the closest I have to one, but it's not very strong at all. I really like some of the thrust and tone of his early posting,, because he was actually doing something....but since early D1 he's been disappoonting, and capped it off with the contradictory hammer he said he wasn't feeling good about. I haven't done a reread or looked into anyone any further than what I've shown in thread though, so I really don't feel like I have a strong handle on things right now, even though the game is progressing at a glacial pace.

Drixx: New VC/wanna fill out the vc at the last post you made?

Pedit: Titus, is that who you feel the most likely scum are, or are those the names you feel a compromise might be possible on?

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, can you take me through the pistachion scumread? I didn't find anything terrible beyond the one post at the end of the day yesterday, the information lynch thing...

Viva, what's changed between today and yesterday to make pistachion better? I seriously don't see a change in her play that warrants any sort of reappraisal from whatever conclusion one drew from her play yesterday?

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb, The information vote + the lack of follow through does it for me. He's all, Titus looks scummy if SS flips town. Yet, Pistachion doesn't vote for me immediately. He cites "speed wagon" concerns. OK, so where is he now? What is his follow up?

Is he scum looking to ride whoever pushes me? Scum defending his buddies? If Pistachion is town, where is he?

@Viva, Talk about how they might be wking me. I don't see that at all, but it is good to get a dialogue going.

Why is Firebringer "not a priority lynch" if we both agree he could be scum?

What are your thoughts on AI?

Hmm. Well, sure, not voting you immediately is, well, interesting I guess, but you WERE being rushed to the gallows before I asked people to let me read up on you. TheCow then unvoted you, and I read up, and not a whole lot has happened since then. Is Pistachion still not voting you at this point?

[Cerberus v666]

Hey Firebringer, I know it's not your style to do read walls or anything, but hearing your thoughts on everyone else, or at least your thoughts on strong scum/town reads and why you have those opinions of them would be nice. I've looked through your ISO and Rhazh's ISO, and unfortunately don't have any feelings in particular about your slot, other than disappointment in the general lack of content it's provided...but I'm not one who generally feels lack of content is alignment indicative. So umm, yeah. More would be nice.

[Cerberus v666]

KAAG: I've been incredibly busy and not involved as deeply in this game as I want to. Titus!town is highly probable, TheCow had some scummy bits to his later play, and I need to read other people more as I've intended, and failed, to do for the last several days. So, ya know, 9 reads that are basically nonexistent as far as i'm concerned because I haven't put the time in to develop them in context.

[Cerberus v666]

others murder for day talk dynamic.

Can you elaborate on this?

Spoiler: Not game relevant, but I'll give my .02 on the question.

I'll address what I think she means with an example.

In a recent mini theme, Steven Universe Prequel, a confirmed town slot(well, technically not confirmed until a couple days later, but a "claimed" confirmed town slot who was being treated as conftown by people) played by RadiantCowbells was tunneling the hydra Drixx and I play together, Reasonably Rational, on D1, and had made it very clear that they felt if the lynch for the day flipped scum, then it meant we were scum with them and they would never stop voting for us on D2. We were town. Another town slot, wgeurts, who knows us well, stated that he would defend us on D2 and outline why RC's read on us was wrong.

Scum NK'd wgeurts, thereby removing the only voice in opposition to a mislynch, and thus allowing scum to use a single vote to create a situation where the games double voting mechanics allowed for a very fast mislynch with no conversation about anything other than why our slot was/wasn't scum, between the soon to be dead us, and someone who activated their town confirmation the next day.

By altering the day talk dynamic through that strategic kill, they essentially removed an entire day phase from town, and got a free kill without any suspicion falling on them.

Anyways, on to things relevant to this game: assuming scum are all lurking through this game, the droog kill makes even less sense, because killing him reduced the PoE pool of lurkers. If everyone in the game is lurking, and you're lurking scum, there's little reason to make it even more obvious that you're just lurking by removing a potential mislynch that will scare the town off of lynching lurkers.

I disagree that NKA N1 is wholly useless, but when the kill happened on a slot with so few firm stances, it's much less useful than otherwise.

Also, I find it very weird that we're only now having a conversation about the value of NKA. I don't know if it means anything, but usually someone asks why person x was killed early in the day.

SirCakez: I recall liking some of Yonoms posts. I'll do a quick reread of their tiny ISO to see if I can see why/if there was anything out of place.

[Cerberus v666]

No because right now the lynches on the table are Titus and myself which is what scum wants. It doesn't POE down the lurkers because the lurkers aren't getting pressured enough.
I honestly don't remember Yonom's posts at all. Super forgettable which is not a good thing.

Firebringer is also an option...

Yeah but that lynch is being disabled by the wagons on you and I right now.

And I'm not seeing the towniness from Karnage. He came in, dropped some questions and placed a pointless vanity vote on KAAG then left.

Technically, sircakez, Firebringer is the counterwagon to Titus, and *you* are the counterwagon to firebringer. If these wagons are scum driven, Titus and yourself are likely town, and firebringer is possibly scum. If not, it doesn't really mean anything. And that is, of course, assuming that scum aren't bussing. Point is, it's a lot more complex than just saying "Yeah, but firebringer isn't viable because other wagons exist." I'm basically waiting for Firebringer to respond to my request for reads and thoughts to determine where I stand with regards to that slot.

[Cerberus v666]

Firebringer, seriously man. :/ please give us some thoughts on other players.

[Cerberus v666]

Alright, that's one. Who else? Right now you're just making it a 1v1 between the two of you. If you're town, you're giving us as little to work with as you can by just talking about the counterwagon.

[Cerberus v666]

Thank you TheCow. That is very reassuring. :p

[Cerberus v666]

Going pretty well. Busy with work, got a new female friend coming over for the first time tomorrow so gonna have to spend the evening cleaning, but that's not too bad. How about you FB?

[Cerberus v666]

Eh. I am a clean person though. Juat...not perfect.:p

Ah yes the gym. I should probably do that some time. Good for me and stuff. Old friend from HS is a new roommate of mine, gotta talk to her about going and working out and stuff so we get to live longer. :p

[Cerberus v666]

Draft seems improbable. I'd rather have a healthy life than be deliberately unhealthy on the off chance that a draft happens.

Get experience in these matters EE, if of course that's what you want..:p

And yeah, your advice is sound, though again, just better to be clean period..:p

[Cerberus v666]

Where, exactly, am I supposed to place a vote? Firebringer is at L-1, I'm still damn sure Titus is town, and I think EE'a case against firebringer isn't great. The problem with firebringer, though, is that theres absolutely no reason to think he's town. Basically zero effort out of the slot. If push comes to shove I'll vote for him, but I seriously don't see the scum in his play. I see bad town. Maybe he's scum pretending to be bad town? I've read his iso repeatedly to try to come down on a firm read on him so I could either agree with everybody else or push thecow over him.

Speaking of thecow: why did that wagon fall apart again?

Viva: why is some people's whiteknighting town indicative, as in, you don't think scum would go to that extent to help a town slot, but other people's (namely, my own with regards to Titus) cause for suspicion?

Pedit: viva, I know you answered this but I don't remember what you said and I'm mobile atm. Let's say fb flips town, AND Titus is town. Like, throw all your previous reads out. Who are the three scum?

[Cerberus v666]

I've seen him play town before. He's kinda just like this, unfortunately. Nothing about his style or what he said/says in games screams town or indicates that he's even really trying. :/

You're right, though, in thinking that it's suspicious in general, but it's not enough to strongly think he's scum, if you understand what I'm saying? The reason *why* I vote so little is because I generally only vote if I feel extremely strongly that someone is scum, to ensure we don't no lynch, and to reaction test and see how people react to, say, me moving to put 3 different wagons at L-2 or something. The only one of those situations that applies right now is how close we are to deadline, but if I had to choose between the two useless slots in picking one to lynch (thecow or firebringer) I'd prefer thecow. But even then, he's not even much worse than fb overall, but he is worse imo because he's been useless AND has done objectively scummy things.

Pedit: I don't see any town motivation in either rhazhs or fbs posts. But, again, same thing with thecow.

[Cerberus v666]

The problem with firebringer, though, is that theres absolutely no reason to think he's town. Basically zero effort out of the slot. If push comes to shove I'll vote for him, but I seriously don't see the scum in his play. I see bad town.

I don't think Firebringer is scum--I've played with him before, this is pretty consistent with his town play--however, this statement is odd. You see no reason to think he's town, but you also don't want to vote him, even though we don't have much time left in the day. You say later he might be bad town. How are you distinguishing scum from bad town?

Because he hasn't done anything actively scummy. He's just...been here, and not accomplished much. I don't think being ineffective is scummy.

[Cerberus v666]

I don't think viva and always agree.

Also, someone said something about a meta case on Karnage? I'm really not a fan of meta play, but his slot did kinda...sidle...onto both mislynches and waa mostly silent beyond that.

Also thecow: twice now. Umm. I'm pretty firmly moved from my scum lean to a scum read at this point. Only cause for pause is how blatant is is...twice now..jsut absurd to think scum would just think they could get away with blatantly lolhammering twice in a row. :/

[Cerberus v666]

I'm pretty confident in firebringer as scum, and looking back over things, less confident in viva as town

It won't get to lylo, viva is scum

I'm interested in what you found in his posts that makes you certain. Viva is weird. All he does is tunnel Titus, and that doesn't mean anything without a titus flip, which I refuse to let him have.

[Cerberus v666]

Karnage's flip would say a lot about Titus.

I don't follow. Explain?

[Cerberus v666]

EE, you're the one with the meta case on Karnage yes? Did you find any other evidence of it beyond the one game you're referring to?

[Cerberus v666]

Let's clear this up.

Viva is now in NotAnAlts slot

Karnage is now in Yonoms slot.

Is the statement you were making about Karnage's predecessor still accurate in your opinion, or does it reflect your view of Viva's predecessor?

[Cerberus v666]

I think Cerb and Cow need to do things.

I think you need to be on the cakes lynch today so you can be cleared tomorrow

Because cakez flipping scum clears her...how? I think she's town for my own reasons, but this argument is weak.

Titus: You're right, I need to do more. I was super busy with life and <ongoing> while the end of the day approached for last day phase, but I expect I'll have a good bit of free time through this weekend.

[Cerberus v666]

I think Cerb and Cow need to do things.

I think you need to be on the cakes lynch today so you can be cleared tomorrow

Because cakez flipping scum clears her...how? I think she's town for my own reasons, but this argument is weak.

Titus: You're right, I need to do more. I was super busy with life and <ongoing> while the end of the day approached for last day phase, but I expect I'll have a good bit of free time through this weekend.

Titus doesn't bus. She never has and never will. She's had her scum buddy bus her before because she wouldn't bus otherwise

I dislike this sentiment. You can't preemptively clear someone based on meta they are well aware of. It just doesn't work that way.

I'm working now, so if you ask me relatively simply questions I can answer, but anything that requires looking at peoples isos or anything beyond impressions I'll handle tonight/this weekend, this is my only live game right now and my weekend is free of plans right now.

[Cerberus v666]

Hi guys. So nobody actually attempted to talk to me at all while I was at work, but I'm home now so yay.

So, starting here.

D1's wagon was: Sircakez, Titus, KAAG, Karnage, EE, Pistachion, TheCow
D2's wagon was: EE, Titus, Sircakez, Karnage, KAAG, Thecow

EE, Titus, Sircakez, Karnage, TheCow is arguably likely to contain some number of scum, BUT the fact that KAAG was killed last night when they were on both wagons, and thus likely to come under suspicion through VCA, makes me a bit less certain about that. It doesn't make too much sense to reduce the PoE pool deliberately. I'll need to think about that. Putting that aside, based on general play, this is where I'm at right now, in order.

Town
5.) Titus
9.) Extrapolated Eagle
10.) Viva La Gloria

Null
1.) AlwaysInnocent
2.) pistachi0n
7.) SirCakez

Scum
12.) Karnage
11.) TheCow

I haven't ISO'd ANYONE recently though, this is all just off my impressions of general play.

I'm gonna (hopefully) reread the game this weekend, and failing that, I'm going to at least ISO my null through scum reads to see if my remembered impressions actually make sense.

[Cerberus v666]

AI: where do you stand on everyone at this point? All you've said today is the bit about sircakez.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm not going to vote for Cow. Also, I don't see what it's supposed to prove anyway--i expect cow to flip town.

Why? Who else are you unwilling to vote for, why so certain about them, and who do you WANT to lynch? With the obligatory why.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, I feel the only answer Viva has given when pressed to tell us hs thoughts on who scum are if you are town amounted to "the people who were defending Titus", so, well...probably not. I'm aware this is certainly a simplified version of what he said, but the main thing that stuck out to me was the fact that in a titus town world I remain scummy, which is simply weird because it means the same behavior I have with regards to you, the only reason I think he's given for potentially thinking I'm scum, remains scummy regardless of your alignment. That doesn't follow, and leads me to believe he is subconsciously subverted by his tunnel on you, even when he's deliberately trying to reevaluate thing in a different light.

So, basically, there are 7 other people to talk to, a few of which are relatively light on content. Working with viva probably won't work, so focusing on those who haven't had much to say would probably be more fruitful.

[Cerberus v666]

AI: where do you stand on everyone at this point? All you've said today is the bit about sircakez.

Alright.

I am suspicious of SirCakez for being on two town wagons, and townreading people like Titus.
I am suspicious of Titus for pushing two town wagons (one of them being obvious town), and townreading people like SirCakez.
I am suspicious of TheCow for lolhammering two townies.

And finally, I am suspicious of you for being so engaged into this game, but as far as I can see, you have not voted in this whole game yet. I don't like how you townread one of the most anti-town players in this game.

I agree with everything here but you trying to divide SirCakez and I.

I too was bothered by Cerb's lack of stance on the plan that I threw out to have certain voters on TheCow. He only answered half the question.

What do you mean I only answered half the question?

You listed certain people as willing to vote for him, suggested we lynch him, and said if the lynch goes throughand he's town there must be scum in your townreads. That is a valid point, but an obvious one. I don't see what you wanted me to address about it, and you didn't make it a question.

AI: I addressed my tendency to not vote on like the first pae of this game, though I do understand the suspicion. I am confusd you suggesting I'm "directing the lynch" though, and not sure what you mean by townreading one of the "most anti-town" players in this game. There's nothing anti-town about Titus' play, she's just been wrong. SS wasnt a terrible lynch, and Firebringers posting was objectively scummy untIL the end of the day, but even then it was too little too late. What else about titus has been anti-town? I see her engaging with people, attempting to sort them, and attempting to coordinate her townreads to work together.

SirCakez: pretty sure I gave out a reads list and said I'd like to do more reading of the game over this weekend to decide what course I should suggest. Which stances have I failed to take?

AI: so Sircakez, Titus, thecow, and myself. The first three because VCA and their relation to the wagons, and for townreading one another in the case of sircakez and Titus
, and me because of the reasons I addressed above. Are you suggesting a Titus/Cakez/myself team, with us all hard defending one another(well, myself townreading titus, Titus townreading us (I think?) and Cakez townreading reading Titus? Or do you think it's just likely there is scum within this group? How does thecow fit in if any of the three listed abI've are scum?

Are you suggesting a townread on all the other slots in the game, or just null?

[Cerberus v666]

Thecow: can you explain your scumread on cakez?

[Cerberus v666]

Oh. I thought that was clear. Yes, I'd vote for the cow, barring a discover of something amazing in his iso that exonerates him, which I doubt I'll find, and I would vote him as a compromise in the event I found more scummy things in Karnage or my null reads isos.

I like you and EE, don't like Karnage, and SirCakez is null, mainly pending a reread and a reminder of what I saw in my D1 iso and his reactions to that. I feel that there is a decent chance there is scum within the wagon you suggested, so unm, yes, that wagon pushing the lynch would make it highly likely that there are scum within your townreads, and it works to reduce the PoE pool of the previous mislynches. It's not a bad plan.

[Cerberus v666]

Lol. What? Because there isn't really a lot to say about your plan? Seriously walk me through this Titus.

Lynch as you described occurs thecow flips town. Okay. You're suggesting that tomorrow we lynch within that pool/that you will have to reevaluate all your reads? That's basically all you're saying right?

How is my response a "political response" when your plan is good for what it is, but really doesn't do a whole lot to solve the game for anyone else if it works out in the worst case scenario. What will you do if he flips scum and they bussed him? Are you going to just hard townread the rest of that wagon for the rest of the game?

[Cerberus v666]

There isn't a lot to say...

Spews a bunch of words...



It would do a fair amount to solve the game IMO if cow flipped town or scum based on the responses to my proposal. Who was bussing and who isn't for example.

You just seem real intent on poopooing information that can be gathered. That's not townie.

I still have no clue who you would want to lynch and who you'd want on the wagon.

I told you I'm quite happy with both Karnage and TheCow lynches, and I've said why throughout my ISO. TheCows play in general hasn't been stellar, his first lolhammer in a fashion directly contradicting his previous statements made me quite suspicious of him, and the second hammer doesn't help. Yes, it was close to deadline so that's not NEARLY as bad as the first one, but it was definitely enough to move him from "suspicious" to scum.

I think Yonom's posting was fine early in the game, but Karnage hasn't done...anything, other than sheep all the wagons being pushed by the same bloc of players.. he hasn't made any original pushes, or displayed any sort of individual thought on the game.

Don't misrepresent what I said, I did clearly say that not only was I happy with a thecow lynch, I was even happy enough with it to vote him OVER someone I might find scummier, as a compromise. Basically, TheCow is not going to stop being a scumread and it is likely I will always be happy to lynch him.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah for someone who withholds stuff like his vote and stuff until he's pretty sure he's waiting an awful long time

I've been extremely busy with, well, <ongoing>, and real life. This weekend is the first opportunity I've had where other games weren't taking up my time, AND my social calendar was free(though that did get messed up by me spending the day with friends spontaneously yesterday).

I mean, it is what it is.

EE, can you give me a super summarized version of your cakez read?

[Cerberus v666]

Okay, i went and found it. Combination of NKA and making statements like if x flips town, y must be lynched tomorrow, without supporting statements of why that particular connection makes sense to them. Is that basically it?

[Cerberus v666]

Cerberus you literally haven't placed a vote the entire game. That lack of stance.

Oh, okay. Noted. I'll try to spend more time supporting lynches I'm not at all certain about by voting, rather than talking and gathering more information.

*shrug*

Seriously though, I guess I just know that I'm always going to be here to lay down a vote(The place i started playing mafia at had 48 hour days...), so it's not a priority at all until I know someone's scum, and that's not a thing I can really figure out so easily in a game with nothing going on in the way of NA's. All my play is in large themes, and with zero scum flips and no NA declarations to analyze I'm having a hard time actually making reads on people with anywhere near the level of certainty I'm used to. It's almost certainly fucking up my game.

Actually, speaking of that: AI, what do you mean "my level of engagement"? I'm like barely engaged with this game. I guess you just haven't played with me before, but this is CERTAINLY the least engaged I've ever been with any game on this site.

[Cerberus v666]

I've also noticed no ones talking about pistachion, except Titus with her comment about a potential pistachion,(someone else, I don't remember who), me team that's just standing by and letting town implode.

EE, SirCakez, thoughts there, assuming you guys are still around?

[Cerberus v666]

I think that's L-1. I can hammer it in a few hours.

we have 10 days until deadline I think and we haven't even had an official vote count yet. Why are you so eager to hammer?

That's the towniest thing you've said all game. Give us some strong reads/reasons for such please.

[Cerberus v666]

I also said I waa willing to lynch cow, Cakez, but I'm also among those you are scumreading, so I do suppose your reluctance on cow makes sense.

Karnage, is everyone you didn't mention just null?
TheCow where are you?

[Cerberus v666]

Also, Titus, I'm doing as much now as I have in previous days. Yesterday I just wasn't around for the last 24 hours before the hammer.

[Cerberus v666]

Actually, my whole plan had a faulty premise in that last VC. I'm rather surprised Cerb didn't correct me here.

A wagon full of 5 lynching town does not necessarily have to have scum on it. It's theoretically possible all 5 remaining town vote a 6th town and all three scum were off wagon.

I want Cerb to cast a vote. There's enough here to get a strong opinion on someone.

You are correct. It's improbable, but possible.

And yeah. At least until TheCow shows up and actually starts playing the game.

VOTE: TheCow

[Cerberus v666]

I can't be scum with Titus. Not sure why Cerb is parking his vote on me.

Who said you were scum with Titus? And of course you can't be scum with her, because she's town. And my vote is parked on you for reasons I have given previously in the thread.
Speaking of which, wtf guys? Why are we sitting here and letting fucking thecow lurk through another day?

[Cerberus v666]

pistachion, Titus is right. I'm a lot of do nothing/hedging in the early stages of the game, and then as soon as I have something to grasp that makes sense to me and seems improbable to be wrong, I hold onto it.

The mistake Titus is making, though, is that she's used to playing with me in games with more moving parts, so I found something to grasp earlier, through the results I had from my own roles, to the claims people made, the kills that occurred, etc. Simply more data available in a game with more moving parts, meant I was useful earlier.

Not so much here. Titus is town. TheCow is scum. Those are the only reads I'm absolutely certain of, and I'm not doing much as a result.

AI: See the second sentence of this post. Want to know what makes absolute sense to me and I'm not letting go of and fuck all of you who don't see what I see? Titus as town. Actually, let's step this back a bit. You say I'm either buddying titus, or I am scum with her. 1) Do you seriously think I would hard defend the fuck out of her and keep screaming that she's town while she's blatantly ramming lynches on scum through? That's a path that leads *directly* to her getting lynched, then me getting lynched, a loss for our team. There is basically no chance that we're scum together. If I'm scum buddying her, if you have even the tiniest bit of experience with her...you should realize that anyone who KNOWS Titus knows buddying her as scum is incredibly dumb as well, because HER OWN SCUM PLAY is largely based upon letting 'townbeards' win the game for her by buddying up with the people who are wrong and getting a faux town block going off in the wrong directions.

She's quite aware of such possibilities, I'm quite aware of her awareness of these things, and guess what? The fact that I've been defending her and calling her town with such certainty IS in fact making her suspicious of me! *gasp* what a surprise, town fucking titus is reacting like town fucking titus does, and like cerb fucking knows she would.

Up to you to decide if I'd deliberately make a play along those lines just to throw this argument in your face as a reason why your assumptions don't make sense, or if I'm actually town who doesn't give a fuck about making titus suspicious of me, I'm just not letting her go down when it's obvious to me that everything she's doing is coming from a town place.

Viva: I kinda hate the fact that your entire reads list(well, okay, not the entirety of it, but definitely sprinkled throughout) shows a massive reliance on preflip associatives with Titus. Even with people who you say you have reads on independent of your Titus read, you still make a point of saying how Titus relates to your read on them. You're 'probtown' reading the cow because "everyone I'm not townreading is all over them", and the people you're not town reading are all based on the fucking titus preflip associative!!!

Frankly, your entire reads list is shit, except for those parts where you somehow manage to independently evaluate play, without making assumptions about alignment WHICH YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING FOR CERTAIN. So, basically, your AI read makes sense, and does not appear colored by your Titus read. Everything else...it's all bullshit. Sircakez read is ALMOST not bullshit, but then you bring in the whole "agreed to lynch Titus then fought against it thing"...

Anyways, the point is, you are certainly compromised in your ability to honestly evaluate this game because of your tunnel on Titus, and nobody should forget that.

EE: I'm interested in why there's an apparent connection between cakez and myself now? Also curious what happened to the viva or cakez thought you had earlier in the day, I just looked over your ISO and don't see any actual explanation for the transition in your thoughts there.


TheCow: Can you please give some real thoughts on the game state?

Karnage: So you feel we're looking at a TheCow/Viva/Cakez scum team right now? Can you explain why there's a contradiction between your 1765 where you remind EE that tunneling isn't alignment indicative in and of itself, and your 1866, where you say Viva is likely scum for tunneling Titus?

SirCakez, I'll get to you later, already spent too much work time on this right now, and you actually have a good bit of things to read through given all the positions on your slot.

Titus: What do you think about the Karnage 1765 vs 1866 I mentioned? Or the EE phantom connections with no reasons given?

[Cerberus v666]

Also, Titus, you're forgetting that in SU, I had Drixx to fall back on, and even though he says he's shit in the early game, he also starts to draw firmer conclusions than me much earlier in the game, and makes pushes on those suspicions etc. I don't know if you actually read our entire slack log dump in that game, but a lot of what I did in the way of interactions on specific slots and pushing people came from Drixx or myself noting things, and Drixx pushing me to press someone about them.

[Cerberus v666]

AI: See the second sentence of this post. Want to know what makes absolute sense to me and I'm not letting go of and fuck all of you who don't see what I see? Titus as town. Actually, let's step this back a bit. You say I'm either buddying titus, or I am scum with her. 1) Do you seriously think I would hard defend the fuck out of her and keep screaming that she's town while she's blatantly ramming lynches on scum through? That's a path that leads *directly* to her getting lynched, then me getting lynched, a loss for our team. There is basically no chance that we're scum together. If I'm scum buddying her, if you have even the tiniest bit of experience with her...you should realize that anyone who KNOWS Titus knows buddying her as scum is incredibly dumb as well, because HER OWN SCUM PLAY is largely based upon letting 'townbeards' win the game for her by buddying up with the people who are wrong and getting a faux town block going off in the wrong directions.

And how the fuck is that not this game?
Like you literally exactly described her play in this game. You and EE (assuming that you're town) making excuses and pushing her mislynches while she hides in the back.
Cerb if you're town you're being incredibly dense.

Valid point, and maybe I am being incredibly dense, but seriously...as I pointed out in my 1042, her 1007 had an extremely high chance of resulting in her death. I can not imagine scum!Titus taking that chance,when she could have deflected somewhere else instead of confronting you. :-/

And the rest of her play is has been all about solving the game!

Also...umm, wanna address my allegation that your are incredibly compromised and unable to properly evaluate any slots in the game because of your Titus tunnel? At least tell me you're considering that I might be right about that?

[Cerberus v666]

AI: See the second sentence of this post. Want to know what makes absolute sense to me and I'm not letting go of and fuck all of you who don't see what I see? Titus as town. Actually, let's step this back a bit. You say I'm either buddying titus, or I am scum with her. 1) Do you seriously think I would hard defend the fuck out of her and keep screaming that she's town while she's blatantly ramming lynches on scum through? That's a path that leads *directly* to her getting lynched, then me getting lynched, a loss for our team. There is basically no chance that we're scum together. If I'm scum buddying her, if you have even the tiniest bit of experience with her...you should realize that anyone who KNOWS Titus knows buddying her as scum is incredibly dumb as well, because HER OWN SCUM PLAY is largely based upon letting 'townbeards' win the game for her by buddying up with the people who are wrong and getting a faux town block going off in the wrong directions.

And how the fuck is that not this game?
Like you literally exactly described her play in this game. You and EE (assuming that you're town) making excuses and pushing her mislynches while she hides in the back.
Cerb if you're town you're being incredibly dense.

Valid point, and maybe I am being incredibly dense, but seriously...as I pointed out in my 1042, her 1007 had an extremely high chance of resulting in her death. I can not imagine scum!Titus taking that chance,when she could have deflected somewhere else instead of confronting you. :-/

And the rest of her play is has been all about solving the game!

Also...umm, wanna address my allegation that your are incredibly compromised and unable to properly evaluate any slots in the game because of your Titus tunnel? At least tell me you're considering that I might be right about that?

I ignored your allegations because they're stupid.
she's scum. either vote her or quit wasting my time.
and no, she made that post because she knew you'd react in that way. People assume suicidally anti-town things have to be town so they get townread for them.
I don't buy that logic for a minute, whatsoever, particularly coming from someone who has been hyped by several players as a good scum player.

Also, what's up with that passivity? Do you wanna, umm, etc? You're acting like I'm about to rip your head off or something.
I'm sorry if I've been nasty this game but Titus needs to get lynched.
You want to win this game, just vote her.

Viva, there is a REASON why suicidal plays are seen as unlikely to be made by scum.

Because they're dumb, and they, by definition, tend to result in the death of the player making them. Unless Titus has certain knowledge of the likely reactions of this particular group of players, or at least of those members of this group of players who weren't already voting her, AS A WHOLE, NOT JUST ME, then the line doesn't make sense. It's a terrible play.

Also, sorry if my verbiage isn't as forceful as you'd like. I just don't see a reason to use imperious phrasing at this time.

-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

Cerberus, have you placed your vote?

I currently am, and have been, voting TheCow.

[Cerberus v666]

He even went to the trouble of acting indignant that I did so, as though I had not previously expressed doubts about his alignment and indicated that his continued poor play had moved me from doubting him to being quite firm in my belief that he is scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus, do you agree with Cerberus that your play is "suicidal"?

Note, her play as a whole isn't suicidal. Her play in 1007 was, and she should have expected to hang for it.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, EE, are you going to respond to my question in my wall post above?

Viva: You realize I don't even vote for people unless I'm quite confident they're scum? Barring a looming deadline, I will NOT vote for a townread.

AI: No, you're missing the point! It's that *that* particular play WOULD NOT be made by scum!Titus. Period. It would not happen, not without her having extensive knowledge of the play of every player in the game.

pedit: in the unlikely event that I die, do not let the people I asked questions of get away with not answering me.

[Cerberus v666]

Karnage: So you feel we're looking at a TheCow/Viva/Cakez scum team right now? Can you explain why there's a contradiction between your 1765 where you remind EE that tunneling isn't alignment indicative in and of itself, and your 1866, where you say Viva is likely scum for tunneling Titus?

perhaps tunnel vision was a poor choice of words. What I don't like about viva is that he goes off on tangents about others being scum and who else he is willing to lynch but it always comes back to lynching titus.

the tunneling I was referring to in 1765 was when a player says somebody is scum and doesn't deviate from that read to even consider or discuss other lynch possibilities.

Hmm. That's a pretty thin semantic line you're walking there. So, complete unwillingness to discuss ANYTHING else is NAI, but the appearance of willingness to discuss other things, but always ending up back at the original target, is scummy?

Can anybody on the Titus wagon explain how she is scummier than the guy that lol-hammered two townies?

I think Viva has put up walls and walls about why he feels that to be the case. Perhaps you should check his ISO? Also, I'm inclined to believe that the *architect* of a wagon on town is scummier than the *hammerer* of a wagon on town, particularly if said hammerer seems fairly disengaged from the game. If it weren't for my conviction about plays Titus wouldn't make and th eclear sense of game solving and town boc forming I'm getting from her, I would think she was scummier than thecow by a mile.

@pistachion, basically he's not pushing scumreads. He's hanging back too much.

But is that different than how he acts in other games? I'm under the impression that being evasive is sort of his thing.

No. In Steven's Universe, he'd engage the thread much more. He fully can place votes. Here, he's giving the impression he doesn't care. He wasn't really voting cow for being scummy, but just for apathy. Not cool. If someone's wrong twice, there is a natural inclination to not want this person leading regardless of their alignment. The apathy cow and Cerb face is .

Right now, the fact you're bothering to get involved in the game actually suggests I could be wrong about you. I am starting to lean more Cerb cow viva/Cakez. Please engage more if you're town, more than just me.

Okay. Does he not place votes when he's scum? Does he have any completed scum games? This is important.

I only have one completed scum game on site, Trouble in the Cougars Den, which was a hydra game with Drixx as Reasonably Rational where our team did horribly, and lost.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63704 << Game thread
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=63740 << Hydra PT(The hydra PT is much less informative than it would normally be, I was pretty unmotivated that game and didn't copy in all my conversation with Drixx.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=63705 << Mafia PT

I also have a couple scum games on the incgamers forums where I came from originally, but I'm not home right now so I don't have the links handily bookmarked. IIRC, those games were both wins though, so they might be more informative than a game where my team got roflstomped. I'll get them for you when I get home if you want?

Anyways, not placing votes is fairly standard for me. I'm especially wary in games this small, because a simple majority equals such a small number of people.

What's the difference between a lol hammer and a quick hammer?

Intent, imo. A quickhammer is done to silence a slot and end the day before further conversation can be had/people can change their minds. A lol hammer is done because "lol, he's at l-1 and I can hammer him!"

AI: Look at her iso. Seriously, look at her iso. Outside of the posts where she's pushing those mislynches(one of which was pushed in a survivalistic fashion, since she was definitely up for consideration yesterday...I think that's NAI, but you might think otherwise), what is she doing? She's pushing the game to engage. She's asking people questions, trying to determine why they're thinking what they're thinking, and attempting to rally those who are on the same page as her to work together.It's just...I don't know man. it seems fairly obvious to me that what she's doing is exactly what she does as town.

Ugh sorry. Went to the hydra to grab the links for those games and forgot to log back out.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, shit, Titus. Also! Read my initial read through of TheCow on D2. I specifically called him out for doing things which I viewed as scummy, namely, rapid flip flopping of intent without any reasons for changing his mind...it just...happened, and also just so happened to give him cause to hammer on D1. Maybe that was because of apathy, but it certainly looks scummy as fuck to me. It was simply too blatant for it, on it's own to give me sufficient cause to think he's scum. I figured he HAD to more aware of how it would look than that, so I gave it less credit as a scum move. After his continued lack of engagement in the game, and doing the same thing again(well, okay, not quite the same, there was a deadline, etc, but still) I decided he was simply attempting to appear to be derptown. It's a low effort strategy, and it certainly seems in line with the low expectations for involvement people had for his play early D1.

[Cerberus v666]

Viva. I assume your world has been sufficiently shaken up for you to remove your head from your ass and actually look at the rest of the fucking game?

Just a reminder: Don't be fucking dumb and put down votes unless you are DAMN sure the person is scum. Even if you are DAMN sure they're scum, let everyone talk for a bit at least so if you're RIGHT and your vote doesn't end up leading directly to a quickhammer and a loss, you get all these wonderful associatives and discussion to use to find the rest of the team.

I'll be busy for the next few hours watching some B5, but I'll be around enough to answer questions.

Pistachion: Titus was the only person you mentioned wanting to lynch, I believe. You got what you wanted. Where do you stand on everything now?

-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

Ai, can you explain your reads list? That is, the reason why each of the names which changed based on her flip, had their position changed relative to her? How did their alignment relate to Titus'?

[Cerberus v666]

I was also wondering that.

Pistachion, I seriously don't think we can take anyone off the table at this point, at least not without some serious soul searching. The game has been a shitshow. AI is the towniest person left alive right now, and he's...like, I need to go reread a bunch to remember WHY I think he's town. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

I want to reread EE's yesterday.

I don't understand that night kill.

Umm. He was playing in a very town fashion throughout and was against the Titus lynch, therefore not an easy target for a mislynch. What's so difficult to understand about that kill?

[Cerberus v666]

Did you think they would prefer to kill Mr. "I"m going to drive a mislynch through on a town slot by tunneling them all game long?"

Like, the people not suggested as suspects recently are yourself, pistachion, EE, and AI(and pistachion was brought up a little bit, but not much). You have the stigma of the Titus lynch, pistachion has the stigma of the lynch+being very quiet all game long, AI was also on this lynch, though not on the others. EE fought against the Titus lynch. Meh. He makes sense to me.

Not saying you shouldn't reread EE. We should all reread the game. honestly. It's 2k posts. A skim will take a couple hours. An actual reread a few hours, and we have time. I just think it's dumb to find that kill surprising.

pedit: EE was just as strongly townread as AI? The only stigma against EE was his presence on the first two mislynches, which is something shared by a decent portion of the remaining living slots.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, I'm pretty sure everyone has wanted to lynch thecow since his first hammer. Obviously no scum team would ever kill him and would want him around as an easy mislynch at this stage, but there's no reason to think he's not scum himself. :-/ Which is why I suggest a massive reread before we screw anything up.

[Cerberus v666]

Pistachion, I seriously don't think we can take anyone off the table at this point, at least not without some serious soul searching.

Of course anybody could be scum, but that doesn't mean I can't think some are scummier than others. I think Vista is least likely to be scum.

Fair enough. Do you have any reason to think AI beyond NKA? Do you happen to have any recollection of exactly what suspicions the earlier NKs had with regards to AI? I feel he and Viva are least likely to be scum(though I do need to put some work in to see what makes him stand out as town in my head), so I'd like to hear why our thoughts on that slot are so different.

[Cerberus v666]

Neither is a townread. I think TheCow is likelier scum than Karnage, and Karnage is likelier scum than Cakez. Cakez is tied with pistachion for me.

So umm

Town
AI
Viva

Null

pistachi0n/Cakez

Scum
Karnage
TheCow

I never got around to doing the read through on Cakez which I intended to do yesterday though, and pistachions iso isn't especially helpful in determining her alignment.

[Cerberus v666]

More important is why AI is your top townread.

Agreed. Like I said, I need to reread him too. I know I arrived at the conclusion that he was unlikely to be scum at some point, but I never determined exactly why I felt that way. I think it might simply be that there were others that seemed far scummier, but that's not a good enough reason at all. Just because someone seems town doesn't make them so. I'll look into what you said about his wishy-washyness yesterday. I generally approve of people moving off of pushing through hammers early in the day, so I didn't look for any real ulterior motives for it.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm also thinking Cerb might be scum that buddied Titus.

Reasonable suspicion, though one which I already addressed when someone brought the idea up yesterday. *shrug* Up to you to make a determination regarding how likely that seems to be.

Well now everything about Viva makes a lot more sense lol. Even more confident they are town now.

Why is that? Just certainty that scum wouldn't deathtunnel on town all game long?

[Cerberus v666]

No he altslipped in another thread. Not going to point it out in case he wants it kept private.

*sigh*

If he altslipped in a public thread, then it's basically fucked up to deny said information to other players, ESPECIALLY at this junction in the game.

[Cerberus v666]

Especially considering there's only like 300 posts for him ever, so. umm. yeah, not the most difficult ego search to peruse for an alt slip. I understand not wanting to be a dick and outing someones alt, but he shouldn't have fucked up and slipped if he didn't want his alt outed.

Viva, who are you?

[Cerberus v666]

I guess I will. This is more about "Right now there is a player in this game who has greater knowledge of another slot because that slot is someone elses alt, and they are using that knowledge to create a read on that player. I want us to all have access to the same information that player does.", than me really caring who you are.

I just don't think it's fair that we're in LYLO and someone is townreading you because of information outside of the game which nobody else has access to.

[Cerberus v666]

Well. Shit. That was really easy. Check topic> Open all active games > Scan playerlists for Viva La Gloria, don't see him, go down to the search, find a post by Viva, then find a post echoed by a different username right afterwards. Did you tell Drixx who your main account was before you joined this game?

[Cerberus v666]

And, I was wrong. Apparently I do care about who you are, because you're basically the only fucking person that would irritate the hell out of me if I found they were in a game with me that Drixx was running under a fucking alt.

[Cerberus v666]

Nope. Secret alt and all that.

Should I have?

If you have some strong desire not to play with me let me know and I won't join your games.

I simply find it distasteful that you, after our previous interactions with you, joined a game which you may have very well not been allowed to join otherwise, under a secret alt. Not that I can predict what Drixx would do, he's not a grudge holding kinda guy...but the principle remains.

I can play with anyone(as you should have noted given that I'm the one who tried to smooth things out with your friends in spite of their playstyles that tend to get on everyone's nerves), but I dislike that you did this. That is all.

I'll try to leave that shit behind though. We can discuss "using secret alts to join games moderated by individuals who we have recently insulted at great length" in post game.

[Cerberus v666]

And yes, now I can see Cakez' point with regards to this slot. In my limited experience with him he's quite capable of tunneling the shit out of town for no fucking reason as town. Dunno if he can/would do it as scum, but yeah. Style fits. Hmph.

[Cerberus v666]

From my perspective both Viva and AI-slot are very very likely town.
This means 3/4 of Karnage, Cow, Pistach and Cerb are scum.

Ya know, i agree with you. Except I'd replace the cerb in your list with Cakez. And yeah. That's the current quandary. I think lynching within that pool has a decent chance of hitting scum(better than any other random pool created throughout the game), but if we're wrong we lose.

[Cerberus v666]

Something_Smart {7} -

SirCakez

, Titus,

TheCow

, PhantomCobalt, Yonom, Extrapolated Eagle,

Firebringer

, Pistachi0n, TheCow --

LYNCH!

Firebringer {6} -

Extrapolated Eagle

, Extrapolated Eagle, Titus,

SirCakez

,

AlwaysInnocent

, Karnage, KickAssAndGiggle, TheCow

LYNCH!

Titus {5} - Viva La Gloria, TheCow, pistachi0n,

AlwaysInnocent

,

SirCakez

, AlwaysInnocent

LYNCH!

-Cakez has been on EVERY mislynch
-Night kill analysis (imo) points toward Cakez

Same applies to TheCow, regarding VCA. pistach1on and you have also been on 2/3 mislynches. NKA points to you and cakez just as strongly, with regards to last night.

[Cerberus v666]

Karnage, honestly, from looking over EE's posts yesterday, and the VCA, etc, this really feels like confirmation bias. It feels like you had this idea in your mind of scum!Cakez picking all the kills to remove threats to him in a very hamfisted fashion, and went and found the posts that supported that idea. If you look more closely at EE's iso, he was suspicous of not just cakez(though he did revist cakez a good bit) He also expressed concerns about Viva, you, and myself. I mean, are you so certain of Viva and my alignments that you don't think the suspicions you're levelling at cakez couldn't also apply to us?

[Cerberus v666]

I maintain the NK still made perfect sense, even in the absence of any sort of "Frame Cakez" plan. EE and AI were the two least likely individuals to be lynched today, period. Widely townread=dead in Lylo, because there's less chance of getting the near coinflip of lylo to go a way that favors scum if you remove potential mislynches.

[Cerberus v666]

And oh hey, thecow is here! TheCow, there are several lynches that make sense, unfortunately, including you. It's rather surreal that after so much sentiment against you, a lynch never ended up materializing. Can you give us some actual reads, as i've been asking for all game long? I mean, there are 3 scum left. Who are the three most likely to be scum for you?

[Cerberus v666]

After Karnage and Cerb are dead, I presume you would be lynching me, cakez?

What about you, Cerb?

Well, the game ends 100% of the time in the next two lynches. Either we manage to lynch scum twice in a row, or we mislynch once and lose.

And I'm still uncertain, which is why I'm trying to interact with everyone. I have a rather small pool of "not going to lynch" slots, and my pool of potential lynches, which happens to be 4 slots when there are only 3 scum.

I need a lot more certainty in things, but at this juncture I'm inclined to think, in order of likelihood of being scum: TheCow/Karnage tied, Sircakez, then pistachion.

I don't like *anything* about your play Cow. I don't like Karnages confbiased NKA and VCA. But I also don't like SirCakez' insistence that there could be no merit to what he's suggesting. And pistachi0n gives me no strong feelings any way. Which is worrisome.

I seriously need to put more work into looking at this game to untangle that particular web.

[Cerberus v666]

I also do not understand how the identity of Viva changes anything.

It doesn't change much for me. I already had him as likely town, but my knowledge of play that I've seen him make as town just adds a tiny bit more oomph to that particular belief.

RE: Bussing. Well, first of all, assuming AI is town as I feel he is, it's impossible for us to lynch scum today WITHOUT them bussing, if the lynch happens before AI is replaced. That's a fact, and we need to consider it if a lynch does happen before AI gets replaced.

And, this entire game is named after bussing. I think if scum get lynched today, that wagon is very likely to include at least one member of the scum team. Possibly both. The risk is high, but I think the risk of *not* being on the only scum lynch in the game is higher, since if town simply decides to lynch within the pool of people who didn't vote for scum, they're basically guaranteed a win, rather than there being any out of deflecting attention to other members of the same pools of suspects.

[Cerberus v666]

Sorry guys, this game has been delegated to "not a priority in the least" status, since I'm pretty damn sure AI is town, and if I'm right it is IMPOSSIBLE for town to lynch scum today if scum don't feel like bussing, until he gets replaced. So, until then, any votes anyone places are pretty stupid, unless you think I'm wrong and are going to be voting AI.

Which is still dumb because he's probably town.

Pist, what's your read on Cow & Cerb?
Cow, what's your read on Pist?
Cakez, what's your read on Cerb?
Cerb, what's your read on Cakez and Pist?

Karnage, full readslist please.
AI replacement (whenever we get one) the same.

What's everyone's Pistachi0n reads?

Both reads are incomplete. For the reason given above, I haven't bothered doing the reading I need to do for cakez, and pistachions ISO is useless in determining her alignment as far as I can tell. I think I'm actually more comfortable with a pistach1on lynch than a cakez one at this point, but I prefer thecow and karnage over both, and I prefer us not lynching anyone until we get an AI replacement above all else.

Karnage, honestly, from looking over EE's posts yesterday, and the VCA, etc, this really feels like confirmation bias. It feels like you had this idea in your mind of scum!Cakez picking all the kills to remove threats to him in a very hamfisted fashion, and went and found the posts that supported that idea. If you look more closely at EE's iso, he was suspicous of not just cakez(though he did revist cakez a good bit) He also expressed concerns about Viva, you, and myself. I mean, are you so certain of Viva and my alignments that you don't think the suspicions you're levelling at cakez couldn't also apply to us?

Just because EE was suspicious of others doesn't mean cakez isn't scum. I am not "certain" of anybody's alignment but I am confident in my read on cakez.

I still think that Cow is town though, and I don't like how freely people are suggesting that lynch.

what gives you a town read on cow?

Karnage, I get that his suspicions of others don't clear him. My point is that you need to apply that reason for suspecting cakez to everyone else he suspected, otherwise you're being biased.

[Cerberus v666]

Hi Ranger. I look forward to seeing what your read through reveals to you.

(That image was blatantly stolen from mollie in the now concluded game that was taking up all my time and energy. :p)

[Cerberus v666]

Pistach0n thinks your slot is scum, iirc. I honestly don't recall exactly what made me town read the slot more than everyone else. Which is a testament to how little attention I've been putting into this game. :/

[Cerberus v666]

Viva are we ever going to see your thoughts you were about to offer up to Ranger before she decided you were possibly scum?

[Cerberus v666]

Also, umm. Hmm. Need to fact check ranger on all the cakez stuff. Other than the vca/NKA stuff of course, which *can* be faked as he seems to think it is, but. I kinda don't think scum would just focus all their efforts on deliberately setting up a mislynch on a single slot on particular in LYLO. Kinda a too many eggs in one basket sorta thing.

Also, what defense of cakez have you seen me make ranger? The first paragraph of this post is the first thing I've said that's meant to suggest we shouldn't lynch him in particular. I just think Karnage and TheCow are more likely to be scum. Speaking of Karnage....is meta really the main reason for your read on him? Nothing else based wholly on this game?

[Cerberus v666]

I kind of think Ranger has to be scum here now just because of how awful her reads are and it would follow the "scum use night kills as evidence to push mislynch" theory I've had all game.

Didn't you think AI was town though? It's the same slot?

[Cerberus v666]

I was pretty sure that AI was town and I still think Ranger is town.

Think this is just being bad.

Hmm. It has been like 12 hours though? Wouldn't scum have already finished this off by now if cakez *was* town? I guess most of the hours the vote was on were like sleeping hours for most players though?

pedit: Not sure. I mean, I'm still like...pretty damn sure ranger is town, and there's of course the chance cakez is scum, but since her plan basically means lynching me tomorrow....I know it's one that ends in a loss.

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: SirCakez

[Cerberus v666]

I love you all. Thanks for running the game Drixx.

Ranger: You fucking terrify me now. I know my play this game was terrible imo, in terms of how connected and involved i was in the game compared to your past experiences with me, but still. You had 2/3 of us down, and we just got lucky that you pushed the wrong one.

Cakez: I'm sorry you feel that way. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

And this game has also shown me how impossible it is to solve games without scum flips or any info at all.

Yeah. :-/ I have a lot of trouble figuring things out without anything to go on. it all comes down to a buncha preflip associatives and "would scum x do y?" :-/

And Ranger made me sad because I know she's a really good player from all of the good things people say about her plus from what I read in MGS and Pick your Poison and then her reads was wrong on me which has to be mostly my fault. Mislynching Titus was my big mistake this game. I think I would have done the rest the same.

Also this game is a great example of why I hate being town :/

Hmm. in your defense, although my teammates may have thought you were a decent mislynch, I didn't have any particularly super scum sensations that I got off of your play. Maybe I'm just bad? Or tainted too much by my knowledge?

Also, Titus, now that I read the dead thread: I'm sorry. :-/ I did not realize there was that particular dynamic between yourself and Viva.

pedit: Cakez, no beating oneself up is allowed! Every game is a learning experience! Like this game, I learned that I don't enjoy vanilla games because I don't have any cool things to think about to help me deconstruct the game. Not even like, investigatives. Just additional claimed actions taken to use in determining whether or not the stated events and intent behind them make sense for town/scum.

[Cerberus v666]

No PR's to hunt...no way to figure out how to create an unwinnable situation for my opponents, other than just hiding from them.

pedit: Sure you were. I mean, you said it would be satisfying to get her lynched man. Kinda hard to say it was purely strategic when you said that. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

(I wanted Titus alive in LYLO so my habit of not voting could mess with her VCA in a game where it would actually help me with my win con by doing so.)



pedit:

KAAG: I felt really bad killing you right after you had dumped a buncha time into catching up with the game. And yeah. I don't have much more to say beyond that. :p

[Cerberus v666]

Lol NO. It's just that replacing into a game is an extremely generous thing to do, and you put in a bunch of work to get caught up with the game and be able to help, and then sniped.

(It would have been nice if you had stayed around though cause you were townreading me all hardcore and stuff to start)

pedit: thecow, you make me sad.

[Cerberus v666]

Deathtunneling is anti-town but NAI behavior. As I said in this game, viva did it to me as town in another game, so yeah. It's a playstyle quirk more than anything else in my experience.

It is *healthy* for the game to resolve those 1v1's as cleanly and quickly as possible though, either through lynching one of the parties or, in a game with PR's, investigating people so the whole thread isn't just dominated by that one conversation, and nothing else happens. The risk there though is that if you guess wrong...it's quite easy to just chain mislynches based off one person being wrong.

SS: You said a nice thing about me in the dead thread. Why did you say that nice thing? I'd like to know what you found, umm, impressive, I guess, about my play this game? So I can keep doing it.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh! And there was a conversation about scumslips that happened in the dead thread too!

Yes, scumslips are almost always nothing more than typos, and people just blow them way out of proportion, and end up with super fast lynches on town for basically no reason at all.

The only true "scumslip" imo is exposure of information one shouldn't have as a town slot with the role you've claimed. If the circumstances of the game leave no reason expressed in thread about why you would know something, and you say that thing with absolute certainty, expressing it as a fact of the setup/what actions have taken, and not as speculation, you've exposed the primary difference between town and scum: You are informed.

[Cerberus v666]

Scum played pretty well.
Thought SirCakez and Titus were scum and my highest town read was scum. Followed by another scum.
Suprised scum even bothered to lynch me with my terrible reads.

Opportunism, more than anything else FB.

You called me mean during the game. Was that a reference to UNIMUM, or something else? And were you serious? Because I don't want to have a negative relationship with anyone in all honesty. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

ARGuoiadjf9riajgipo;asfjgpga;iofj9moreantiheroesquekeyboardsmashing.
;_;

I did try. I knew it was a risk voting SirCakez, but I didn't see me voting any other player because I couldn't see the nightkills pointing to anyone else and I couldn't see the voting patterns telling me anything else and such but...GAH. That's all on me.

Ranger: You fucking terrify me now. You had 2/3 of us down, and we just got lucky that you pushed the wrong one.

It's of little comfort. The Karnage misread hurts me a lot, since that's a read I wasn't as absolute about. I was never voting TheCow, ever. But I had read Yonom, I had read Karnage, and the only concern I had about Karnage was in what content he gave, so I even did research and put my fears to rest, yet it was

all wrong

, the content was scum when I thought it wasn't. :/

Of course, it's not as egregious as the aforementioned SirCakez misread.

If it's any consolation, we were probably gonna get pistachion lynched if you hadn't shown up. I deliberately mentioned the fact that it was impossible for there to be a lynch on scum today until your slot was replaced with the intention of, as soon as we had 4-5 people scumreading a slot that *wasn't* karnage, suggesting that we go ahead and move forward with putting some votes on that individual,starting with a vote from the *other* likely lynch of th day, cakez, since that would establish that either scum were going to have to bus pistachion, since there must have been scum among those favoring her lynch(since 5/7 slots expressed a willingness to lynch her). Well. You get what I'm getting at. I hadn't quite determined the exact mechanism I was going to use, but I planned to sell some sort of kinda sorta makes sense fuzzy logic thing to get people to think voting pistachion was actually safe, because the scum had backed themselves into a rhetorical corner by all being willing to lynch their teammate.

Not sure if that would have worked...and I may have been too lazy to try...but it would have been fun?

pedit: I...don't know what I'm good at. I think what I'm good at might not have any relation to my alignment, actually.