Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain (GG)

[T-Bone]

Spoiler: nuh uh uh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lwUS0GlNIA

Vote: Metrion

[T-Bone]

I keep forgetting these forums don't auto hyperlink. Ah well, probably better that way.

[T-Bone]

Oh God I missed the opportunity to link the scene where Snake kills Quiet (SPOILERZ) (cause Met claimed quiet and xtoxm claimed Snake and DS claimed Hideo and OMG THIS GAME)

Dammit I have failed us all.

[T-Bone]

*raises hand*

[T-Bone]

Oh wait no damn you got me lol

[T-Bone]

You're not going to convince Met to admit he's scum.

[T-Bone]

One thing at a time, we have a player caught visiting the scumkill and dancing around revealing this fact in the first place. I'm open to xtoxm being lying scum, but it's hard to ignore this entirely.

[T-Bone]

We should lynch you way before we lynch DS if you're gonna pull the "based on claims" crap...because you have made the absolutely WORST one imaginable.

[T-Bone]

You are literally the only player in this game who can't say crap about other player's claims cause you outright lied about yours.

Vote: xtoxm

Fuck it, this is scum.

[T-Bone]

I mean considering the things you know because of your role and what we know based on the claims...you're 180 makes no sense. You KNOW DS targetted Met....yet you think it's a...lucky guess that he said Met targeted GIF? Walk me through this absolute jump the shark in logic, there's no reason any town player with the information you have reaches this conclusion.

[T-Bone]

except my lie has clear town motivation

"any lie = scum" is really closed minded way to play

if my townflip is what it takes before people will consider that DS may be scum, then go ahead idrc

And no your lie was motivated by self-preservation at best. Because you are town is never a good reason to fakeclaim. You did it because you didn't want to be lynched, regardless of alignment. It was selfishness, not selflessness that motivated you.

[T-Bone]

Here's our disconnect and maybe you misunderstand me. I don't believe that you lied because you are scum. I think you're very capable of lying as both alignments to save yourself from a lynch.

But then with your FAKECLAIM you insisted on Day 2 this

So PV claims he can never die and you're all swallowing it?

You think a role exists in this game that cant be removed by any means?

he's lying, we need to kill that

Of course he is, but do you think peregrine is scum lying or town lying?
I'm curious about this because the wagon was based on lack of commentary from pidgey.

scum. i'd be pretty surprised if both his and my role are on the same team, and neither gob nor pidgey responded in town ways to being wagoned

You were set-up speccing based on your FAKECLAIMED ROLE. This isn't the only post where you insinuated that you don't believe that slot is unlynchable and town because you were a IC. How does a TOWN player cast shade on another slot based on HIS FAKECLAIM?

[T-Bone]

That's not even the problem I have and you're completely missing the point.

[T-Bone]

Am I the crazy one here? Without the night actions we were probably set to lynch DS or Elbrin based on the clusterfuck that was Day 2. And I was ready to go all in on it when xtoxm goes "DS targeted Met" and Met goes "DS couldn't have possibly done this". Sounded like a done deal. But then it turns out Met targeted GIF, and suddenly it clicked into place cause Met's first reaction to being caught with the scumkill was "nuh uh you can't target me I'm a ninja". And it would seem your own action supports the idea that DS did indeed catch Met with the scumkill. I can understand the disconnect of "we can't have two trackers" (eventhough we had two hiders, essentially), what I can't understand from a townXtoxm perspective at how you've arrived at the sudden conclusion that we should abandon lynching the guy caught targeting scum, when your own action supports it, in favor of lynching DS, who while admittedly was pretty scummy the first two day phases, came up with what he came up with. You've jumped the shark based on what I think I know and what I think you know.

[T-Bone]

You were set-up speccing based on your FAKECLAIMED ROLE. This isn't the only post where you insinuated that you don't believe that slot is unlynchable and town because you were a IC. How does a TOWN player cast shade on another slot based on HIS FAKECLAIM?

more bullshit that scum have been pouring into my mouth.

that statement was never based on the IC claim. that comment was based on my actual role, my actual character, and other known info about town power roles.

it still holds true.

Because there is a tracker (you)...there can't be an unlynchable player? How does A ever lead to B?

And sure while you never outright said "because I am an IC this role can't exist" it was heavily implied based on your fakeclaim and you cannot even begin to deny that with any sort of dignity.

[T-Bone]

You're asking me to eat a ton of bullshit and I just don't have the appetite for it. Have some situational awareness and take a look at all the garbage you're expecting us to digest. You might be surprised at what you see, and then if you are actually town you can adjust accordingly. Because that's where we're at, if you are actually town the counterproductive BS that you have been laying on us since Day 1 needs to stop. No more lying, and more importantly no more excuses for what you've done. Don't tell me you weren't set-up speculating based on your IC claim, because even if you were doing it based on your actual role there was no way for anyone else to anticipate that. If you had actually managed to lead a lynch on pidgey/PV again it would have been because of your IC claim and not your real role. Someone tell me that previous sentence is wrong (hint: you can't).

Again, why, in the scummet-townDS scenario does scummet make such a terrible scumclaim?

I've admitted that this could very possibly be awkward distancing between two scum, but DS is the more sure option, way I see it.

If you have a 95% scum and a 85% scum, you kill the 95% first.

Okay now we're getting somewhere maybe. Why wouldn't scum claim their real role and say it's town? Is the claim bad, sure I could have bought the claim of Town Silencer. But I can't buy that a townMet would be more concerned with not being able to be tracked than confirming that he did target GIF, but he did it for protown reasons. It reminds me of what Titus did in my TPTG Mafia where she thought she was immune to investigations and her reaction to being caught by an investigative role was "nuh uh you can't get that result".

Let's say both are scum and you are town, making this entire conversation pointless (but it's possible)...doesn't that make Met the 95% in that scenario?

[T-Bone]

You were set-up speccing based on your FAKECLAIMED ROLE. This isn't the only post where you insinuated that you don't believe that slot is unlynchable and town because you were a IC. How does a TOWN player cast shade on another slot based on HIS FAKECLAIM?

more bullshit that scum have been pouring into my mouth.

that statement was never based on the IC claim. that comment was based on my actual role, my actual character, and other known info about town power roles.

it still holds true.

Because there is a tracker (you)...there can't be an unlynchable player? How does A ever lead to B?

And sure while you never outright said "because I am an IC this role can't exist" it was heavily implied based on your fakeclaim and you cannot even begin to deny that with any sort of dignity.

if there was a town unlynchable in the game i'd expect it to be big boss.

also, unlynchable is a powerful role, and at the time we have ranger (powerful), titus (powerful), me (powerful), so i didn't think there was a 4th for town on top of this.

since the revelation of the setup being non vanilla this has faded somewhat, which is why i haven't been scumreading the slot as hard a si was earlier in the game

Fine, set-up spec is almost always bad, but okay.

[T-Bone]

Also I'm not sure what I'm arguing anymore. UGH

unvote

[T-Bone]

I have not insinuated anything about your role?

[T-Bone]

I'm also thinking that we should lynch Xtoxm instead of Met today b/c if they sent Met to do the scum kill he likely has a weaker role. Thoughts?

This makes sense, and I think is true in like 75% of the time.

Or his role is the designated killer IE delayed flip on GIF.

[T-Bone]

Vote:

[T-Bone]

DON'T TELL ME NOT TO DO THINGS FFERY

(also it's not L-1)

[T-Bone]

Alright I'm ready.

I'm not crazy (cause Kate mentioned L-1) we're actually at L-3 right so if I put my vote back nothing changes?

[T-Bone]

No Kate is crazy.

Vote: Metrion

[T-Bone]

unvote

gah I don't know

[T-Bone]

Can't have been when I changed my vote before he did.

[T-Bone]

So my vote was L-2 just now.

[T-Bone]

Vote: Metrion

[T-Bone]

Just because I can't let go that DS might be scum, want to clue me in on those thoughts you mentioned ffery?

[T-Bone]

You should be sorry, daring to have a personal life while modding a mafia game!

[T-Bone]

(we're all vanilla masons is the subtext )

[T-Bone]

Let's not pretend you took that seriously...

[T-Bone]

Help with...?

Also

Vote: DS

[T-Bone]

I think you are out of lives to be honest and this is a good place to start.

[T-Bone]

From farside's flip info, it looks like she had a private thread. The ~link~ bit.

A 4p neighborhood and another neighborhood?

@T-bone

, are you townreading everyone in your neighborhood?

To varying degrees. I think at this point Expedience is the only townread I'd stake the game on. As far as who's scum, if we're dividing the playerlist between the neighborhood and non-neighborhood, trying to decide who the scum is in MyLo is a fool's game, and I feel much more strongly about a DS or xtoxm, or even Elbrin than I do about skybird, and newCow. I'd put the pair of them in the middle with PV and Nero. Functionally though yes I'm townreading my three neighbors.

[T-Bone]

I think how the neighborhood affected the game (and you won't see it till post-game) is that sometimes we (at least I) posted thoughts about the game, but only to the neighborhood. I did that intentionally of course. I don't know how much to the extent the other players did it (I have been the most active user in there from the beginning).

[T-Bone]

But as I think you know I love neighborhoods and masonrys, I think in my last one (We Didn't Playtest This) more than half of the masonry posting was me (despite the presence of my two-hydra partners and the other player).

[T-Bone]

And now...I let my phone do the talking fir your entertainnent.

...

I don't want to vote on this site is not a dating site!

We have to do them all at once.

But the best way for me to put it on a regular schedule for next week and I have plans for a few days ago.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

Well, alright then.

[T-Bone]

Wait, it's MyLo? When was that announced?

This bullshit is what he's referring to.

[T-Bone]

Welp.

[T-Bone]

This is a VC

Lies.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[T-Bone]

You're right, though I don't think the quoted votes count.

unvote

[T-Bone]

Proof that you are scum.

[T-Bone]

Yeah well

Vote: PV

[T-Bone]

I empower people nonconsecutively, if I target someone they get a free use of an x-shot role essentially. I did it to Expedience N1 and N3.

[T-Bone]

Tracker is actually a strong role, but thanks for playing.

[T-Bone]

To be fair to newCow, he didn't start posting in our Neighborhood till that day either, even if he replaced in during the night phase (and explained as such).

I still hate that you claim the Mod told you not to target his slot.

[T-Bone]

I am an invento

r, I can claim my abilities if you want but I told the neighborhood already and it shouldn't really matter.

I targeted GiF n1 and n2, and T-Bone n3.

I empower people nonconsecutively,

if I target someone they get a free use of an x-shot role essentially

. I did it to Expedience N1 and N3.

????

Which part isn't clear?

If someone uses an X-shot ability and I target them, they get the shot back.

[T-Bone]

I'd be curious as to what you gave GiF and T-Bone.

This a good question and I really don't see any reason why Bone and Expedience are wigging out over this.

Okay I am not wiggling out of this. I'm flat out not going to tell you what he gave me.

[T-Bone]

Oh man look at the lack of controversy! Lol at Nero.

[T-Bone]

Gravedigger is the wrong term.

[T-Bone]

Someone hammer PV

[T-Bone]

Well

[T-Bone]

We can remedy this by someone hammering PV so the Mod can flip him when he gets back. PV is the correct lynch, and basically the whole game hinges on his flip at this point.

[T-Bone]

Cabd wouldn't abandon us so I'm not worried about that.

[T-Bone]

^Best Mod ever

[T-Bone]

alright, Expedience gave me an ability cop thing. I target someone and get the names of their passive and active abilities. I targeted Nero. He has no passive abilities. He has an active ability called Burned to a Crisp. That...is not what Nero claimed at all during mass claim. Though I don't right remember what his flavor claim was, but I would assume a Miller would be a passive ability no?

So...my vote is on Nero in spirit at the moment. It's LyLo so I'll hold my vote for a few.

[T-Bone]

Vote: Nero

I see you're reacting like caught scum then. You claimed Miller to fear a cop check, bet you weren't expecting an ability cop.

[T-Bone]

I mean you've been caught lying, least you could do is come up with a reasonable explanation. "Oh I didn't want to claim my real ability name cause I didn't want to get modkilled" or something.

I celebrated like hell in the neighborhood but I fucking got you!

[T-Bone]

Alright no I guess it's not fair to call your reaction automatically scum since town would probably do the same. I think if you were town though you'd try to understand things better, because I've been pretty obviously town.

oh I forgot...you and T-Bone wigged the fuck out yesterday when DS asked you that.

But I mean we would totally want to out that I was sitting on an ABILITY COP. Now knowing what the invention was, in hindsight you should realize "oh yeah now that makes sense why they wouldn't want to out it." Also considering DS is someone I feel is scum, like hell would I want to out to him specifically.

Also I was under the impression I'd get the whole ability, (not just the name) so I wanted to keep a lid on the invention. But sure let's pretend all that was scum motivated and that Godz, Expedience, and I are the scumteam because we have half the neighborhood with three townies. Is that the theory?

[T-Bone]

If you're not lying Nero than explain to me why when I checked your abilities that you returned an active ability called Burnt to a Crisp, and not something called 'Traitor' (that's the name of the ability you claimed, right?)

[T-Bone]

By the way, in case you forgot, the cop ability was someone who would jail you and then the second night find your alignment.

well also farside was a 1 shot ability cop and its the exact same ability that Exp says he can make.

Expedience's inventions seem to duplicate other roles in the game. He also has a version of my ability.

[T-Bone]

Yes Nero all the while we duped Skybird into pretending we are apart of the neighborhood.

The simplest explanation here is that you're scum, but I don't fault you for looking for alternatives.

[T-Bone]

My "first content" as you call it is well before I'd caught up on the game. The "rest of the day" was me catching up and then me spending time attempting to extract sensible information from Mr Ion. That is what you

should

be doing when there's evidence to suggest someone could be mafia but it isn't clear-cut (e.g. not a 1v1 like you and THE BONERIZOR). This is basic theory. If you're debating this, you're not a very good player. Nobody should be writing mounds of relatively irrelevant information to clog up a day when there's a central issue to focus on.

Your categorisation of my D4 is funny. It also, again, ignores that there really wasn't all that much point in doing other things because (a) a mass-claim was occurring, and (b) after the mass-claim had occurred, the correct play was to lynch PelicanV and wait for a flip, if it was to happen. PelicanV was a safe lynch and, had he flipped mafia, would have given assocations to work off. The fact he didn't makes the POE pool smaller. This is useful information to have before going off on several tangents that could be more or less pointless depending on what PelicanV's alignment was.

If I didn't give a read on Miss 22, then I didn't. What is your point? I didn't explicitly say all the reasons I was town-reading Miss Bird, but I did point out (in the game thread) that I believed Scorpion had hidden behind her night one - I suggested the strong evidence for it and nobody ever produced a good counter-argument for it. These two players were never in contention for a lynch, so why would I spend time going into lots of detail about my read there?

You're probably right that I haven't publicly given a stance on Miss Bishop. That is a read I've been mulling over for most of the game. It is probably the read I've been most inconsistent with this game and is still one I'm working out.

I wasn't town-reading THE BONERIZOR prior to the events of night three. Nor was I strongly town-reading Experiments prior to then. Things have changed. I've made it completely clear why. Actually, I haven't made it explicitly clear

all

of the reasons I'm reading them as town and there's a particularly compelling reason (I think) that they're town, but I won't talk about this until post-game because the powers that be would be very, very unhappy with me if I did so.

As for the Mr Sentinel read, I probably also haven't explained that much publicly because it, along with the Miss Bishop read, have been in flux for a majority of the game. You're right. It's not a strong town read. I don't have any strong town reads outside of my hood and now PV. In the hood, I've described this game as russian roulette. I still think that is the case. Whoever is town in the POE pool isn't making their alignment as clear as I think they should be.

Nothing finally "tipped the scale" with regards to Mr Oxm, except that he's less likely town than others. As far as minor reasons go, I have looked back on his, "Oh, sheezy, actually I'm not an innocent child!!" reveal and I am currently leaning towards it feeling forced and disingenuous. Outside of that, he's just not a town read and the very, very low amount of content he's produced doesn't leave him in a favourable light.

By the way, Mr Cain, focusing on me today doesn't really do a whole lot. I could write a long post about how little you've done, how unclear your reads have been, etc (in fact, I have, and you've still yet to adequately address it), but in the end, this is you vs THE BONERIZOR, so what are you hoping to achieve with this side-argument with me?

I personally find your stances today hilarious. The idea that the hood is 3/3 seems far-fetched to begin with, but the idea that THE BONERIZOR had to fake a guilty on you as a mafia with Experiments and I makes so little sense it's not even funny. How likely is it that any of us were going to be lynched today, over any of the other possibilities? I also think every time you make assertions with question marks ("could it be that X is the case? is it actually X?") it just makes your alignment even clearer; you're not taking any hard stances, instead trying to throw out whatever you can to see what sticks.

It's also entirely unclear what your current reads are. ARE you reading the rest of our neighborhood as mafia or not? Who do YOU think is the mafia team, Mr Cain? Why aren't YOU taking stances? Why aren't YOU trying to show why you're town and THE BONERIZOR is a mafia?

Also,

I didn't want to claim on d3 b/c I didn't want it to be a distraction and have Met get out of a lynch

This doesn't explain anything. Apart from the irony with your complaints with me, YOU WERE IN THE GAME FOR THE WHOLE OF DAY TWO. And this ISN'T a reason that you had to hide; why could you not say this yesterday?

Because you're making it up as you go.

#micdrop

[T-Bone]

Your posturing is astounding DS.

[T-Bone]

Like, we have no evidence of any sort of framing ability, so it's 1v1 between me and Nero. You either believe he is town and I am fakeclaiming for the win, or you believe he's lying about being a miller (which is what is actually happening). Instead of acting like this is a tough decision and that you have "options", start taking some hard stances because you don't have options.

[T-Bone]

Oh yeah I must be scum because I celebrated catching you in a game in which we have killed zero scum so far. Can you be more cliche?

[T-Bone]

"LOOK LOOK! EVERYTHING BONE DOES MAKES HIM SCUM! I'M SO CLICHE" - Nero Cain 2016

[T-Bone]

I think you are the only scum in this game.

[T-Bone]

That you're not taking any hard stances on an obvious situation that has 1 of 2 answers. You're pretty obviously trying to avoid having to vote Nero cause you keep going "well I dunno about Bone..."

[T-Bone]

It's LyLo, and scum can quickhammer.

He's not criticising your lack of vote; your lukewarm stances are the issue.

[T-Bone]

Oh basically the same thing Expedience gave me on N3, which I reloaded for him, so that he could give it out again, which I used on Nero, which told me the ability he has is not the one he claims to have.

Imagine that?

[T-Bone]

My point is that Nero's big defense to being caught is some massive conspiracy, and I'm taking every opportunity to shit on it. You described exactly how the thing works and when you use it tonight you'll discover it works in the manner I have claimed. When you use it the mod will tell you "this is their passive abilities, this is their active abilities".

I only got to use it for the first time last night. Nero claimed he is a miller and that 'traitor' is the name of his ability. I discovered he has no such ability, but he has an active one called 'Brunt to a Crisp'.

[T-Bone]

Unless we want to play that him being a Miller affects the ability cop result, I have no evidence of any such ability.

[T-Bone]

My point is that Nero's big defense to being caught is some massive conspiracy, and I'm taking every opportunity to shit on it.

and either you are lying or something happened with the result.

Great, except you've spent quite a bit trying to prove that me/Expedience are not credible in this invention/night action combination we've put together so if you're not going to entertain anything other than "Bone is shit" then there's no reason for me to believe I've got this wrong.

[T-Bone]

No, you're right, fair enough.

[T-Bone]

Guys chill it's just a game. Nero has to do and say whatever he can, caught scum isn't going to roll over and go "aww shucks you got me". I wouldn't take it so personally (like you seem to be doing newCow).

[T-Bone]

Uhhh I think the scum team deserves some if not most of the credit regardless of set up choices. A perfect victory is a perfect victory, thanks.

[T-Bone]

And the set up wasn't bad, town just made the wrong choices while we made the correct ones. We killed the players the way we did to influence the town. We led random lynches on ouyr unlychable slot to influence play. That might be the only bad design choice, other than that night abilities were surprisingly balanced. Odd choices like the ninja immune track doesn't mean it was a bad choice. I'm all four building redundancy in a set up.

It was a good game Cabd, don't let em tell you otherwise.

Also I scumslipped hard in the neighborhood by the way. Glad you guys didn't catch it. I had thought I was giving instructions to my team and posted it in the neighborhood instead. Prompted the Mod to change the name of my scum topic as a result. Having two PTs was sooooooooooooooooooooooooo stressful you have no idea. I will be happy if I never have to do that again.

[T-Bone]

Although I finally have a scum game to point people to when they get pissy.

@Titus There was something screwy there. Not one of the scum saw that, and we all read the PMs thoroughly. The OP was also edited between us seeing it and the result, too. So... Not sure what happened there.

But I wouldn't have claimed that had I known that it was part of my ability.

Also we didn't read our PMs throughly, cause we thought I was a roleblocker till right before the end of Day 2.

[T-Bone]

I also should have thought more about why Miss Bird died because (as I said in the hood) it indicated that mafia didn't want to ruin the status quo. That said... I feel no regret and no remorse about lynching Mr Cain.

On the Farside kill it was more important to kill her at that point than anything else so it had to happen or we were going to lose. And you are fought, I did not want a new voice in the game when I was entering the final day with virtually all the control over the player list. Entering this day everyone trusted me and would ultimately do what I want. We almost killed your slot for the dsame reason but killed GIF invade he shot right. Basically all the kills were made to protect Elbrin and so I could have control of the game. With Titus and Farside dead I had nearly all the control once you were pacified.

[T-Bone]

Your reads are why you never got killed. We killed Ranger Day 1 because I was afraid of his reads. He was very on point.

The PTs will explain a lot. Like us having a three man scum team for half this game. Risky decisions were made. I knew the only way we could win this game was with a clean sweep. Once one of them got flipped my position in the neighborhood would unravel and we'd go down like dominoes.

[T-Bone]

I manipulated you hard, that wasn't the setup, that was me.

[T-Bone]

Also I led the first lynch on PV's slot, as well as every lynch there after, thanks.

[T-Bone]

Like lynching PV is about the only thing the set up did to influence the game. At any time xtxom could have tracked the killer. Gif could have killed scum like he said he was going to do instead of switching at the last minute. Met could have not power role claimed in thread and DS tracks someone else. You could have protected Farside. Farside coiukd have copped her #1 scumread. Kate could have blocked a kill. Town based all these things they could do and we were powerless to stop it. DS could track, Elbrin could delay the flip, and I could reload shots. That's it. The balance in this game was incredible town power vs modified unlynchable scum (which unravels iuf someone catches Elbrin or he gets lynched instead of Titus). Appreciate how much power the town actually had. Nero's role ewas the only one who didnt have the power to get scum. Everyone else did.

Yeah but then if go against me at the end I go "hey Nero..." and you get lynched. You weren't in as good as a position as I was after N3.

[T-Bone]

I don't deny the unlynchable scum was big , but to claim that the town had no chance because of that role and we had an easy ride is ridiculous.

[T-Bone]

Next time don't be so scary on Day 1 Ranger :p

[T-Bone]

And you can maybe make the argument Godz that the unlynchable scum was unbalanced, but you can NEVER make the argument that distribution of power roles were, town had so much power we should have been screwed every single night.

[T-Bone]

Just need to accept that it was the play of the players, and not the setup, that tipped the balance in our favor.

[T-Bone]

Yes and yes. If you had managed to lynch him we would have had no shot. It would have been a matter of time before my neighborhood domino fell and PV was tested again.

[T-Bone]

Painbringer (8):

DiamondSentinel

, Nero Cain,

T-Bone

,

Kate Bishop, Expedience

,

Elbirn

,

Metrion, GuyInFeezer

My reads were pretty wrong and I feel a little bad but my play was no where as near as bad as Ranger and Muffin are pretending it was.

I bet that happened cause of a scum-sided set-up too amirite?

[T-Bone]

THIS IS WHY I HAD TO KILL YOU

[T-Bone]

Actually really a little NKA would have gone a long way, the first three kills were to get rid of Elbrin's biggest detractors....

[T-Bone]

GET WEKT NOOB

[T-Bone]

Even though I quoted you... you're not the one really arguing the scum sided setup angle.

[T-Bone]

That's exactly what you're arguing and you're wrong. The alignment of the unlynchable role isn't relevant because that slot was not lynched twice because people thought it was scum. It was a lurker lynch, and then the correct MyLo play. Those two lynched were just more mislynches. No one needs mathematical proof to see the blatantly obvious, that set up balance had very little to do with the outcome. You take away the unlynchable role and suddenly this us a very town sided setup and the fact you are blind to this baffles me.

[T-Bone]

Town got 4 mislynches, thanks for playing. You keep throwing out 12:4 like it's unbalanced or something, when in fact (other than being an even number) it's the right amount of scum for a playerlist that size. You keep throwing around the word balanced but I don't think you understand what that means. It's not the set-up's fault if player's make assumptions about roles. It's not the set-ups fault that the town couldn't get their stuff together. Hell DS slipped IN THREAD (which I yelled at him badly for) that maybe PV is unlynchable because of another scum role. DS slipped quite a bit this game with his inside knowledge. Is it the fault of the set-up that no one picked up on it? No, just like the set-up had very to do with the overall win of the scum team. We didn't have a single way to interfere with night actions. All we did was interfere with the lynches. I essentially led every single lynch in the game. Is that the set-up's fault too? That SINGLE fact is what caused the outcome of the game. T-Bone, a member of the mafia, directed ALL THE LYNCHES. We can argue semantics about how much effect on the lynches I had, but every single lynched happened because it was the outcome I wanted. Ranger pointed it out best, we had Elbrin, I said I wanted pidgey, pidgey got lynched. We had Elbrin again, I said I wanted PB, I didn't hammer Elbrin, and PB got lynched. We could have played a vanilla game and with the way we played vs. the town played we would have won, nothing to do with the set-up, and that's something you can't seem to wrap your head around and I don't know why.

[T-Bone]

Here's the thing you NEED to take away from this. We worked our asses off for this win. DS, Elbrin, and I played HALF the game with a three man scumteam until PV came in (and even then his frequent absences were not easy to deal with). I had a stressful job of managing two PTs, worried that every time I posted in the scum PT I accidentally posted in the neighborhood. But instead of taking the loss gracefully like everyone else you are marginalizing the results of the game by complaining about the set-up and blaming the set-up for the town's loss. That pisses me right off because you are dismissing all the stress and effort we put in to win this game. You're shitting on it instead of taking it gracefully, and if you can't take the loss gracefully there is no reason for you to be posting in this thread, because you are wrong, and you are just spiteing everyone who played.

[T-Bone]

We're not playing the game anymore. You are so obviously wrong, have been told by multiple people, and you're still blue in the face arguing otherwise. You are wrong and it's not the set-up's fault that you're too blind to see that either.

[T-Bone]

This isn't a mafia game anymore, don't even begin to try and strawman me.