Tarot uPick II - GAME OVER

[Wisdom]

Anyway, BRantz would have no reason to lie about flavor given it's not indicative anyway, so probably both tower and reverse tower exist

[Wisdom]

Here, from ffery's source

Traditionally, disruption, oppression, subjugation, persecution.

Still makes sense with his claim.

[Wisdom]

http://www.tarot-card.net/tarot-cards/tower.htm

here it is btw, see last line for reversed tower.

[Wisdom]

nah but that has to do with the nature of my role i suspect

[Wisdom]

ika wouldn't know brantz is a traitor though

speaking of which, I definitely think scum thought they were mislynching a townie there, which is why the wagon looked terrible

[Wisdom]

brantz was trying to reach out to ika to make him stop tunneling on him in the neighborhood (things like "we work well as town together" and "i cant do anything if you tunnel on me like that so ill just ignore you" [those are paraphrases])

ns could have a point i guess, but eh. ika's rage felt pretty town yesterday.

[Wisdom]

because it was still terrible

[Wisdom]

but see, brantz being a traitor explains that. It practically was on town.

[Wisdom]

what's your point, luna?

[Wisdom]

i'm not trying to justify anything, i was still right about the wagon so

[Wisdom]

i dont

[Wisdom]

i know? that's not the point

[Wisdom]

yeah, reading the flip helped that

[Wisdom]

why do i need to justify myself?

[Wisdom]

i think you're confused or something. The point here is that the BRantz wagon was for all intents and purposes a wagon on town. It still has scum on it, unless scum somehow figured out BRantz was the traitor, which I doubt.

[Wisdom]

Because you're scum obviously

nope, sorry

[Wisdom]

he flipped traitor, nacho. Scum didn't know he's scum. You are not dumb.

[Wisdom]

how would it affect me? Even if I was scum I wouldn't know Brantz is scum, so why would I need to justify myself?

[Wisdom]

Like it's not like Brantz was a mafia traitor that was a counter wagon to team-scum (Brantz's vote on Anen practically confirms him as town), Brantz was a "town" wagon that was counter to a real town wagon. This means that scum are going to be on both wagons, so focusing on one over the other is stupid.

i dont remember saying we should focus there

[Wisdom]

Idiocy was pointing out that ika was on the BRantz wagon, and I noted that there are still likely scum on there because of the fact scum didn't know BRantz is their buddy.

[Wisdom]

in other news brantz being the traitor makes me feel better about kuroko, especially given he focused on him rather than me

pedit: i think you were just lucky and scum helped you lynch him, tbh. I never saw anything scummy about him.

[Wisdom]

get scum lynched and i'll think about it

[Wisdom]

wat

[Wisdom]

thanks

[Wisdom]

luna i made it clear I disliked the BRantz wagon yesterday. Yes, I was also townreading BRantz, but the votes, their reasoning and who they came from, were a major reason for that.

[Wisdom]

or why do you think I was feeling BRantz was town if not for how the wagon on him looked? It's not like he did anything too town other than taking the scum-scum stance that I talked about. I said multiple times that I disliked how he was being voted or scumread when he had done nothing scummy.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: idiocy

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE: [/uv]

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

this is not a bastard game?

[Wisdom]

or are there unknown sanities outside bastards? i thought not

[Wisdom]

oh.

[Wisdom]

that would actually make sense with her weird accusations. is that the case?

[Wisdom]

He took it back before she claimed, so it definitely wasn't baiting.

[Wisdom]

it wasn't baiting, that's ridiculous

Why did he take it back before any response from Luna if it was supposed to be baiting?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: klingon

id like to do this today

[Wisdom]

this is partially answering your question

[Wisdom]

guess it's just luna being luna then

[Wisdom]

That was how he treated the Ricastle flip

"He played like scum so he might as well have been" or whatever

well i did want to imitate town-me in that game

[Wisdom]

i'll tell you. she posted that we should lynch brantz because tower is the worst tarot card. And when she was told that flavor is not alignment indicative as confirmed by the mod, she just shrugged it off.

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom

do you have a townread on any of --- tammy, pie, medea, or kagami?

tammy and kagami yes, pie not as much but brantz being traitor makes me feel better about him given brantz's push on him

i dont know about medea, standard cabd and underwhelming penguin

[Wisdom]

luna i think it was the correct approach actually. If you used your shots before knowing your sanity it would be pointless.

[Wisdom]

because one game can't be used as a meta

i did support a klingon wagon before tier brought it up, nobody followed

[Wisdom]

Reference for farside:

Not sure who I want to move it to :/

I'm not sure about Brantz. He called me town. I'm a sucker for people who call me town :p

I kinda wouldn't mind lynching klingon though.

lets do that

VOTE: klingon

- no votes for klingon, not even from tammy -

- 2 votes happen on PN instead, so I join that wagon -

- Then Tier votes Klingon, late to the party -

[Wisdom]

you think ceph's play is town? or mastin's?

mastin has basically done nothing and i cant read ceph for shit as has been proven

but yeah, if i have to go with my gut, id say he looks town

[Wisdom]

i dont recall pisskop doing anything either

i dont like aj much

[Wisdom]

what about klingon?

[Wisdom]

anen's reaction to the tower thingy and everything was pretty town, bacde.

Let's lynch klingon.

[Wisdom]

why the townread on hawk?

[Wisdom]

ugh. just for his role being likely town, because otherwise his play is atrocious

[Wisdom]

nacho what's your problem with idiocy? farside has been pretty town

[Wisdom]

flavor isn't, governor is more likely town though

[Wisdom]

did brantz really push ika that much?

[Wisdom]

because i dont really remember anything strong from him

[Wisdom]

and in fact brantz moved ika to null in the reads he gave in the neighborhood

[Wisdom]

No, he voted him though. I thought someone was clearing ika because of that, maybe it was anenin?

im kinda feeling better about kuroko because of brantz's push on him, but that's different in that he called me vs kuroko scum vs scum and then focused on kuroko, while if kuroko was his buddy he could push me instead

[Wisdom]

Town: Luna, Grandpa Oil, Tammy, WallofFire

Neutral: Ika Zaru, Medea, Klingon, Pisskop, Fluff, Zelink, Idiocy, Konowa

Scummy: Kuroko, Wisdom

People who others seem to have a much better read on that I need to iso (more to remind myself to do this than anything else): Kamigami, AJ, Perpetual Nonsense, ProHawk, Muki, Anein.

this is the first list. he has two tiers of null though (probably has scum in both)

[Wisdom]

what doesn't? it just feels like normal farside?

[Wisdom]

fakegod requested that list, and i agree that brantz probably had scum in his null reads

[Wisdom]

what do you mean "their joat"? he was just a traitor, no?

[Wisdom]

but he didn't flip joat?

[Wisdom]

oh yeah. i recall reading that but i forgot

[Wisdom]

What he flipped is also irrelevant to the point made which is what the scum team thought at the time of the claim. He couldn't have tried to save himself after he flipped.

Don't know what to think about that interpretation though because I do t get how that would be him showing the scum team his hand and they recognized it to try to save him.

fakegod was saying that he actually was a joat though, which i thought we knew isn't the case

[Wisdom]

Wisdom is still scum.

you're still wrong and you didn't address my answers to your points

[Wisdom]

luna i made it clear I disliked the BRantz wagon yesterday. Yes, I was also townreading BRantz, but the votes, their reasoning and who they came from, were a major reason for that.

or why do you think I was feeling BRantz was town if not for how the wagon on him looked? It's not like he did anything too town other than taking the scum-scum stance that I talked about. I said multiple times that I disliked how he was being voted or scumread when he had done nothing scummy.

[Wisdom]

we are the town gamechanger

each night we can pick a card and it will do somehting we have no clue what they do and can not pick them again till all cards are used

do what you like with it i call dibs on self hammer

[Wisdom]

Except there's no proof that was the reason you were townreading him since you never explicitly stated that's why you thought he was town yesterday.

off the top of my head

Spoiler: quotes

I just don't like this BRantz wagon. He has done nothing scummy yet people are acting like he has.

BRantz (7): Ika Zaru, Kuroko Network, Klingoncelt,

nacho how can you be okay with such a shit wagon?

Your point is bad anyway. We got a scum lynch thanks to luck, and the wagon still has scum on it. This is the whole point here, not whether I was right or wrong about whether BRantz was scummy or not.

[Wisdom]

now that i think of it, luna is known for claiming easily and unnecessarily, so i wouldnt put it past nacho to provoke her, since he has understood who she is

[Wisdom]

replace idiocy with klingon and yeah

[Wisdom]

why not?

[Wisdom]

not for the brantz lynch, for what brantz said to you in the hood

[Wisdom]

ika and ns are talking element things in the neighborhood right now and they should do it here instead

[Wisdom]

eh, true

[Wisdom]

actually that list is off 3207, hence why Zelink and also Konowa are included

[Wisdom]

mhm

[Wisdom]

nope

[Wisdom]

what's wrong with my play, pie?

[Wisdom]

I don't get it

[Wisdom]

I never said Anen is still scum, you're confirmed not reading shit

And things you don't understand don't equal nonsense, sorry

[Wisdom]

no matter how many times you say it, it won't make me scum

[Wisdom]

I was in no need of towncred so you're starting from a faulty assumption

And you know me well enough to know I don't care that much about being wrong

[Wisdom]

Oh I misread that. Anyway you don't make sense and I already explained it to you, so this is pointless.

[Wisdom]

You're never going to convince anyone because you're wrong

[Wisdom]

It's definitely pie.

[Wisdom]

also if someone could explain to luna why she's wrong about her point about me that'd be nice. experience with tunnels tells me she's not gonna listen to anything I say without bathing it in scum motivation first, so yeah

[Wisdom]

Tammy are you townreading Wisdom?

I am I don't know reading Wisdom.

really. Why can't people tell I'm town nowadays

[Wisdom]

luna, when you tell people you can't convince them they are scum without having a guilty or something of equal value, you're tunneling. It's that simple. There are no low blows here.

[Wisdom]

why? I think the only games I was scum and you didn't read me correctly were hu2 and purple, which were both multiball, no?

pedit: @tammy

[Wisdom]

luna, when you tell people you can't convince them they are scum without having a guilty or something of equal value, you're tunneling. It's that simple. There are no low blows here.

Because im fairly sure you're scum, i already brought my reasons.
If i have to scan you overnight to lynch you i will.

I showed you why your reasons are wrong and you're not listening. The irony is that you tunneled me in our previous game too and you didn't learn yet

[Wisdom]

pie you simply don't know if I reevaluate, if I stop to think or anything that I do really. You only know what you see. If you can't handle my playstyle, simply don't play with me. You can't fucking argue that I shouldn't be listened to just because you're incapable of understanding how I function.

[Wisdom]

fuck your wishy-washiness, why don't you just vote me if I'm scum?

[Wisdom]

so much wrong in one post

So, any takers?

[Wisdom]

bert i dont understand any of your points

klingon is still obvious scum

Aneninen your wagon was completely normal as already explained, you're just obsessed with it. And what change of the topic? THAT was the original topic, Luna was the one who misunderstood.

[Wisdom]

V/LA until Thursday

[Wisdom]

VOTE: idiocy

[Wisdom]

oi, rest of Wisdom wagoners. Idiocy is my lover. Lynch them and I'll die too. Well, sorta. Neither of us is going to flip.

[Wisdom]

what did you understand?

[Wisdom]

Something like that, Aneninen. You'll see.

[Wisdom]

I wasn't aware being top wagon meant the majority of the town is townreading me

[Wisdom]

it was to luna

[Wisdom]

your reasons are bad and you should feel bad

[Wisdom]

I mean, you don't listen to me or nacho or Tammy or anyone explaining to you how you're wrong and why I'm not scum, so you're in no place to whine about people not listening.

[Wisdom]

too bad

[Wisdom]

i didnt actually say it, but yeah

[Wisdom]

^
cant wait for the game to end so i can quit mafia

[Wisdom]

what case?

[Wisdom]

if you're trying to make some sort of point, i'm missing it

[Wisdom]

when one of us gets lynched/killed, we both get treestumped for the following day and then flip

[Wisdom]

she's in idiocy, bacde

@kami no

[Wisdom]

no

[Wisdom]

it was in my role pm from the beginning that they're my lover

[Wisdom]

Apparently the mod sent a PM that didn't list us as lovers and then sent a fixed role PM.

[Wisdom]

Why the fuck would he vote someone that is his lover?

do you think before you post?

[Wisdom]

either you dont or you dont know what lovers are

[Wisdom]

because he said he had a guilty? i dont care if i die if we lynch scum?

[Wisdom]

he would be lynched next for lying. still nets scum.

[Wisdom]

there was nothing to think about. cop guilty = vote

[Wisdom]

at least from nacho. if it came from someone like metal sonic, then i would think twice

[Wisdom]

i have no idea what 3617 is saying, but im voting idiocy right now

[Wisdom]

maybe?

[Wisdom]

i dont scumread idiocy. they're underwhelming and have done nothing, and i kind of liked the few things they posted. it's just that like luna posted, this game is just going to be a sheep nacho fest, so might as well.

[Wisdom]

lel

[Wisdom]

you guys should claim lovers with your scumbuddies from now on, it's guaranteed to succeed

signed, vedith & luna

[Wisdom]

that you're dumb. but that's not new

[Wisdom]

yes

[Wisdom]

you're arguing (well, agreeing with a newbie, but still) that I'm fakeclaiming lovers with my scumbuddy and just voting them to be on their wagon.

Which is completely idiotic given that if they flipped not-lover scum, everyone would know that we were lying and lynch me next, rendering the fact I was on their wagon completely irrelevant and useless.

[Wisdom]

you said "you were right vedith", and that's what vedith was saying.

[Wisdom]

Wait... So when Wisdom thought that Oil had a scum read on Idiocy, he voted them without hesitation.
Why the fuck would he vote someone that is his lover?

He thought Idiocy was caught so he was going to early wagon them. Now he knows there is no strong evidence he makes a bullshit lie up?

you're not reading, Luna. He said that the lover things is a "bullshit lie" I made up.

[Wisdom]

dont worry, Luna will think of some scum motivation to go with that too

[Wisdom]

to be precise, farside thought that someone loverized her when in fact it was ffery correcting a mistake in her role PM

[Wisdom]

that I* loverized her, anyway

[Wisdom]

The only Non wis/ot/idiocy person i want to lynch today is Aj. Atm anyway.

wow you have a scumread that's not terrible. how's that

[Wisdom]

only to dumb tunnelers who should know better

[Wisdom]

it stopped no wagon, luna is just paranoid. Most likely, we'll still lynch idiocy because nacho will think they're a scum lover

[Wisdom]

do your thing ika

[Wisdom]

what's the point of me posting? You're not listening to me anyway

You know my reads, have fun

[Wisdom]

your point being..? i know who luna is and everyone with half a mind should too

[Wisdom]

But on the other hand I feel like Wisdom, if scum, would have a ball just posting to create a distraction and cause apathy right now :/

smart girl

[Wisdom]

given who you are, i dont trust your "im town" campaign in the least

[Wisdom]

wisdom still scum

lel
Maybe if you keep saying that you'll get me lynched
oh wait

[Wisdom]

"proved"

[Wisdom]

kuroko was echo and pie, pie left

[Wisdom]

because you totally can't lynch people without cases

[Wisdom]

because theres a mountain of meta suggesting Im town.

only frustrated scum say this

[Wisdom]

sorry, i'm still not scum, and the worst part (for you) is you can do nothing about that

[Wisdom]

leave bacde alone and finish off pisskop

[Wisdom]

not as strong as it should be but it's still there

[Wisdom]

she will coast to endgame

[Wisdom]

She has pisskop as the pinacle of towniness for some... reason... and is attacking anyone scumreading him

sounds more like a wk than buddy defense

[Wisdom]

not that crazy

[Wisdom]

well the two that do are voteless, so

[Wisdom]

the way you're describing it sounds more like her defending herself via pisskop (scum wouldn't out information, therefore she is not scum). After all, she outted the element things before pisskop did

[Wisdom]

i think she's just scum. Just read HU2, it's the same shit as there

[Wisdom]

or do people just not want to lynch scum?

people will just follow nacho's orders in the end so it doesn't matter

[Wisdom]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60385

[Wisdom]

because that's what i said

[Wisdom]

it was sarcastic. I nowhere said that such thing is a scumtell yet you're acting like i did

[Wisdom]

klingon, pisskop, aj -> scumreads

luna, kamigami, wall, tammy, bacde -> townreads

[Wisdom]

yes

[Wisdom]

i dont see why not, esp. with a rolecop in the game

[Wisdom]

he has flipped town and is a treestump

[Wisdom]

Be more respectful, he did get two town dead with one lynch after that...
oh wait, two town

[Wisdom]

That's not helpful or productive.

It is if it gets people stop sheeping and actually play

[Wisdom]

I could buy Kling being scum tbh

you don't say

[Wisdom]

when will people get apathy is not alignment indicative

[Wisdom]

If anything, people not posting and nobody trying to do anything would mean scum are content with the pisskop wagon

[Wisdom]

Oh yeah, you replaced in, so you didn't choose them. That explains that

[Wisdom]

do you know how to make people do things? do things yourself so they react.

vote klingon, for example.

[Wisdom]

I don't think Brantz's and Klingon's role exist on the same scumteam.

we really don't know brantz was anything other than a traitor, this is a bullshit reason not to lynch someone as scummy as klingon

[Wisdom]

I don't see why they had to clear wof if they're scum together

[Wisdom]

pisskop/kling/AJ/?/?

this + ika/ns/pn or someone

[Wisdom]

i dont think either being town affects the rest

[Wisdom]

why not?

[Wisdom]

that doesnt tell me much

[Wisdom]

she thinks pie wouldnt shoot muffin for some reason that i dont get

[Wisdom]

Vote

klingon

for a better tomorrow!

fixed

[Wisdom]

everyone is scum!

so, hf guys

[Wisdom]

someone is going to be paranoid of gaiden from now on

[Wisdom]

Inb4 everybody flips town

inb4 klingon survives to endgame

[Wisdom]

nah

[Wisdom]

well at least a lynch happened with nacho not agreeing

progress!

[Wisdom]

do you know who echo is yet?

[Wisdom]

you should out him in here and watch him get PLd

[Wisdom]

It wasn't meant as a vote trick, ns had just been posting with his own account instead of his own for a long while as Bins, his hydra partner, wasn't playing.

If I was the mod I would count it.

[Wisdom]

instead of his own

imstead of his hydra one*

[Wisdom]

Yeah, should have counted in the first place is the point