Mini 1770: College Mafia! (Game Ovah)

[shaddowez]

VOTE: BBT

...just for being BBT

[shaddowez]

Whee, I'm back and caught up on the pretty much nothing that has happened.

SirCakez is so town right now.

Do you see any of those things in the first 3 pages?

I know I didn't.
Blueblooded is also town.

SirCakez I got that strong town feel on.
I have to go against the NIght Hunters here. Don't agree at all.

FB

- can you provide any sort of reasonings outside of gut on these town reads? Do you have any sort of scum reads yet? Your vote is still on the RVS massive wagon.

Wagons post-RVS should have something better to back them up then "we're never the same alignment". Its my opinion. Initial Night Hunters wagon was different because that was in RVS. 47 was a response to your "RVS wagons are outdated" thing which I find completely false. 74 and 80 were responses to questions.
If you want reads the town reads I was referring to were BBT and Night Hunters for active engaging of the game and early questioningg that was pretty town.

What defines the end of RVS to you? You said you had town reads but didn't mention scum reads, which means you still have to place your vote somewhere, or do something else to continue getting reads. If RVS ends when you just get a couple of reads and everybody stops doing things, the game is just going to stagnate.

I'm liking GuiltyLion's and BBT's posting right now - NH is a null for me, as I'm trying to get a grasp on the combined tone.

It definitely feels like Cake is White Knighting massive based on his willingness/joking regarding the NH and Jeanne wagons.

Scummy entrance,

bad response to RVS wagon

, someone just being generally scummy in their posts.

You have no scum reads, and don't want to continue wagoning people....yep, I'm good with this wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

[shaddowez]

I've been mislynched for this exact same "questioning a wagon, wants attention on anyone else" bullshit before and it's very irritating. There are definitely scum pushing this and 114 makes me pretty confident its NH.

Questioning a wagon is one thing, being willing to wagon one person and then questioning the wagon on someone else for the same reason (RVS, in this case), is where my issue is with what you did.

I like how people want me to explain my reads.
Like you all have played with me before.

Its really hilarious.

Hey, a man can dream!

[shaddowez]

Questioning a wagon is one thing, being willing to wagon one person and then questioning the wagon on someone else for the same reason (RVS, in this case), is where my issue is with what you did.

I feel like a broken record here. Massive wagon was post-RVS, thus not same reasons.

Titus why did you dodge my last question?

And you completely ignored my questions to you in 116.

[shaddowez]

Will get to this later, looks good though.

Also, I'm down for policy lynching Fire.

I hate policy lynches. They're never good for town, unless by some happenstance it's scum. I've seen FB play several games and they've almost always been similar, scum or town. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and see if I can't derive anything from further game play.

Prod received. (Typically not on ont he weekends- sorry guys).

Anyways,

Vote: ɀefiend

What kind of character is that?

I'm read and catch up today/tomorrow.

If you've read and caught up, does it seem like the game was not out of RVS to you? Most other people already did, and yet you threw down what seems to be an RVS vote.

The cakey wagon has kind of died out, a lot of you want either a Fire policy lynch or a Gl scum lynch, and seen as he voted for me basically for agreeing with someone else:

VOTE: GL

Can you please specify "a lot of you", because from what I saw it was a total of around 3 people.

nds up town, with at least one scum taking the easy vote onto the main center of attention.

So I'm slight townlean on SirCakez due to the amount of people pushing on him. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by focusing on perception, I'm trying to figure out if your scumreads are genuine.

Do you disagree with the arguments against him? Or do you just townread anyone that has a wagon forming on them?

In prod range. Sorry.
Going to bed but I'll be here in the morning.

Hellloooooo? Already playing to your scum meta, Ari.

I'm liking GuiltyLion's posting right now.

Talk to me about this because I'm not seeing it.

I liked his question to NH in 103 and his explanation in 108. I can see not liking his later posts, although 204 looks like he did actually put thought into what he was doing and is able to explain it again.

Night Hunters is sure scummy IMO.
Wonder if anyone is going to call them out on it besides me.

Nice. Talk to me about this (my one and only reach out to you. Blow me off with some sarcastic bullshit and I promise you I will lynch you D1 even if someone outright claims scum.)

Again, I don't agree with this but it sounds like it's coming from town BBT.

[shaddowez]

SirCakez faked his reads and has basically been looking to have the game push anyone else and had a terrible white knight of a massive RVS wagon.

I've got a few people who I'd consider voting right now. It's about 4 players deep, SirCakez leading the way.

-Mom

I've already disproved all of this and you're ignoring it conveniently.

SirCakez has been desperate for a handout for anything else he can scumread and not look like the scum he is.

Third time I'm saying this: this is bull for reasons I've already said and you know it is and are choosing to ignore it.

Aristo why are you town reading NH?

SC

- Do you have anything new to contribute? Basically every post of your since 180 has been repeating yourself (which you say in your posts) or asking for other people's opinions on NH. Do you have any other reads?

That's why I get suspicious of the early wagons and why I'd rather investigate the voters instead of the voted.

This makes a lot of sense and I like the consistency. I'm interested to hear your thoughts once NH answers your question in 233.

No. It doesn't. This allows him to attack any wagon without taking a position. He also didn't attack our wagon.

~Mom

Do you consider your wagon and SC's wagon to have the same level of seriousness in the game? I have a feeling, though I could be wrong, that GL doesn't care about RVS wagons. I'm also not fond of you using the word "attacking", as that would come across as hard defending the wagonee to me.

Shadow, why call me out as "using my scum meta" and then not vote or push me farther? I figured you'd be all over that and was very surprised by the lack of vote.

It was enough to ping me but not move my vote yet. I'm willing to see where it goes from there.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: tojam

Jumps on the SC wagon for no reason in 99, jumps onto GL in his very next post with no good reasoning except "a lot of people" and an OMGUS vote, isn't responding to questions. No reason to not have my vote here.

[shaddowez]

@MOD

- V/LA until Tuesday, 3/8

[shaddowez]

Caught up to Thor's replace in - Welcome Thor!

Thoughts so far below, will get to more later:

I don't think I ever pushed NH, I poked at them to get a reaction and develop a read. If I were pushing them I'd be voting them.

My phrasing there isn't clear though, at the time I was null on SirCakez. I wanted to emphasize that I didn't think their reasons for scumreading him were all that alignment indicative. Basically, instead of reading it as "I'm seeing him scum, but not as much as they are", which seems to be how you're interpreting it, it should be read like "I see what they're saying, but I don't think it necessarily makes him scum".

I thought their points in 83 were valid, but then their 90 was way overconfident and I don't see pro-town motivation in it. Further, 106 didn't really show any of the deeper level thinking or doubt that I was looking for with my question, it was just "he's scummy". Again, I didn't really disagree with their points about SC, but I didn't think they were as indicative as NH seemingly thinks they are in 90 and 106.

Maybe pushed was too strong - you certainly looked interested in going down that avenue though. The avenue you led them down with your question.

Your phrasing was perfectly clear but now you're trying to change it. It's not 'how I'm interpreting it' it's exactly what your words were saying.

So the reason I asked that question to NH is because I'm not seeing SirCakez

as strongly scum as they are

- their push feels forced.

The 'as' is key, it implies you at least agree to an extent with what NH are seeing. So it's pretty scummy for you to try and turn this around to say I'm interpreting your posts incorrectly, I think you realised you couldn't respond to my post and as such needed to try and change the original meaning of what you wrote.

I liked his question to NH in 103 and his explanation in 108. I can see not liking his later posts, although 204 looks like he did actually put thought into what he was doing and is able to explain it again.

Tell me specifically what you liked about his question and explanation because I have a serious problem with both of them. What do you think of the above regarding GL? What can you see to 'dislike' about GL's posting?

This is several hundred posts ago now so is outdated, but will still respond. 103 tries to understand tojam's reasoning, which reads like town to me. The time frame is something that didn't stick out to anyone else, but he brought it up. Additionally, unless he was scum with FB or SC, I don't think he would bring up the question to NH about the buddying.

In 108 he explains his motivation for the question he asked, in enough detail that it didn't sound like he was just blowing you off.

Things I don't like about his posting are in many of his posts, he seems to be trying to loosely frame arguments so that they can be taken either way and frame arguments against people. I'm not sure this is inherently scummy or just the way GL plays, but it's definitely something I don't like. This kind of ties into your point above regarding your response to 204.

VOTE: massive

Why the naked massive vote? You were very interested in his wagon early on, then mention in 315 that he's in your lynch pool, but never really give an explanation.

le sigh. I posted what I could from the first four pages. Will try to catch up but life (college!) is really hectic as of late. If I cannot give this game much commitment even after tomorrow I'll sincerely apologise and replace out.

Sooo....this still hasn't happened. You've posted a few random things, many of which point to other people's lack of posting. You then use that specifically as a defense in 362

So kirroha is probably scum then, any interns please CC now or this wagon Will start rolling VOTE: kirroha

So your only reason for believe she's scum is because she doesn't believe your claim? Is everyone that doesn't believe a PR claim scum, or is this basically an OMGUS?

VOTE: massive I'm happy with that wagon now the kirroha one is basically dead.

This was 9 posts later...how did the wagon even have time to build, let alone be dead?

ISO'ing massive to figure out what's with the interest in wagoning him because that's all I have time to do atm but will promise to read more thoroughly later. Like I like this role and all but if I can't commit to this game then I'll get myself replaced with someone who can play it better.

You do your "ISO" of massive in 358 where you say that he looks "fine". You say you want to read again to decide on a GL or a massive wagon, then just decide on massive two posts later. In 426 you randomly jump on the SC wagon, because you want to get a reaction on the second largest wagon...Yeah, I'm not liking this at all.

VOTE: kirroha

[shaddowez]

Hey everyone. I've read the most recent vote count and, oddly, massive's posts, and nothing else. I don't even think he sounds scummy, but a large wagon sounds sexy, so;

Vote: Massive

L-1

Why is there a mega wagon and so many vanity wagons at the same time? That seems silly.


[L-5] GuiltyLion - Jeanne11, Night Hunters
[L-6] kirroha - Firebringer
[L-5] SirCakez - Aristophanes, massive
[L-6] tojam2 - shaddowez

@Shaddowez
@Firebringer

What's up with your wagons? Why are you supporting them and not the mega massive (pun intended) wagon? All the cool kids are wagoning hard, why aren't you?

@Aristophanes - how do you feel about your vanity wagon now that the top suspect in the game is voting it?

@Jeanne11
@Night Hunters

In a very sad way, you guys, functionally, are leading the second biggest wagon in the game. Talk to me about your thoughts on Guilty Lion and also on massive.

I mildly have a town read on Firebringer.
Is zefend a lurksack? If not I have a slight town lean there also, I guess I'll look in a second.

My vote was where it was because that's who I found scummiest at the time. I was V/LA since Friday afternoon, so quite a bit had changed.

Regarding the massive wagon, what do you think of the people on it at the time? What do you think of kirroha and her vote jumps?

So much for my hope that Pere's iso would have any insights.

Reading Firebringer makes me want to do this;

Unvote: Massive
Vote: Firebringer

Dead serious vote here.
Anyone who knows me and how I like to pressure wagons should recognize how serious this is since I actually unvoted an L-1 *prior* to seeing a reaction.
Sheep now, please and thank you.

I feel like this is a brazen move for scum to make this early in the game. I've only played in one game with Thor (that I can remember) and we were both scum. This feels sort of how that game went, but he didn't bus until

much

later in the game.

Man, I'm kinda happy with my wagon too. Two votes are purely self-preservation, one is bandwagoning what is, best I can tell, a neutral read, and BBT is still mistaking "contribution" for actual scumminess. I don't know, maybe GL is even self-preservation at this point.

At least I don't have a PR to go claiming, I guess.

Gonna go here:

VOTE: SirCakez who switched from WKing me to voting me (ostensibly) because I didn't move my vote off of Firebringer? OK.

This early VT claim makes me a little less sure about this wagon.

UNVOTE:

I don't see how it benefits scum to lock themselves into a VT claim of all things at L-2.

VOTE: SirCakez

I'm looking elsewhere for now.

Why wouldn't scum claim VT? If they claim a PR, they have to come up with results that can eventually be proven wrong.

FB is always impossible for me to read, so I'm willing to sheep Thor for now. I'm likely to move my vote back to kirroha if nothing comes of it though.

VOTE: Firebring

[shaddowez]

Shit, I let this game slip again.

Welcome, Thor! Your name and legend precede you!

This is scum. Burn it with fire.

VOTE: Ari

[shaddowez]

I thought about Thor's argument against FB some more, and realized there's at least one scenario where FB still actually makes sense.

BBT, sheep me on Ari and I can almost guarantee a scum flip. I'll join you on Thor tomorrow if so.

[shaddowez]

Since we have just over two days to deadline and you already have votes, sure.

VOTE: Thor

[shaddowez]

Since we have just over two days to deadline and you already have votes, sure.

VOTE: Thor

You sheepy scum? Thor is obvtown and you've piled on almost every wagon.

Yep, that's why I voted Ari with nobody else on it whatsoever. You seemed to like my vote when it was on the same wagon as you, however.

Also, what makes Thor obvtown? Granted I've only played one game with him, but this doesn't seem any different than that game and he was scum.

[shaddowez]

Unless his team is SirCakez and massive, Thor is town.

Haven't those been your top two scum reads until this point?

[shaddowez]

SirCakez has been desperate for a handout for anything else he can scumread and not look like the scum he is.

I am interested in a massive wagon but Titus thinks they're town.

You're a hydra, so you have to deal with both reads being taken in discussions.

[shaddowez]

How does that make sense, you're attacking someone for buddying me - scum don't need to buddy scumbuddies, that defeats the point of buddying.
Unless you're attacking him for something other than buddying - in which case, what?

How do you read that I'm attacking someone for buddying you anywhere in there?

[shaddowez]

VOTE: tojam

Won't be back any closer to deadline, and don't want a no lynch. Claim doesn't preclude scum here.

[shaddowez]

Aren't you conveniently forgetting Firebringer?

Firebringer never outright claimed.

I have a reason now to believe most of the PR claims.

We're not lynching a D1 PR claim today.

Why do you think that BBT was killed instead of any of the claimed PRs? I actually find it hard to believe that an admitted tracker wouldn't have been NKed over somebody who crumbed, but never actually said they were a PR let alone what type of role they may have.

I feel quite conflicted on the NH slot, but I'm not interested in sorting them fully Today. I have seen enough posts that I think have town motivation behind them to sort them as town for now and begin to look elsewhere.

Feel like NH is buddying Thor and it's making me uncomfortable.

I can see what you're saying. I'm just asking for time.

Along with a few other posts, BBT definitely looks to have been questioning NH's alignment. BBT and Thor are easily the two most aggressive players in this list (that I've seen so far), so offing him before he could get any more arguments would be a smart play.

I know they claimed tracker, but like I already said that doesn't make sense why they'd be alive over BBT if they actually are town. Additionally, a tracker could be a scum role to look for PRs.
VOTE: NH

[shaddowez]

yo shaddow we actually followed you where were you at? :3

-Dad

You tell me and I'll tell you if you're right or not.

[shaddowez]

yo shaddow we actually followed you where were you at? :3

-Dad

You tell me and I'll tell you if you're right or not.

Are you a miller?

-Dad

Interesting question for a tracker who claims to have followed me.

[shaddowez]

@Shaddoweh He meant gravedigger. I explained it as a miller for trackers.

Still an interesting question. I'll wait until you tell me what you saw before answering anything regarding my role.

Why you ignore Jeanne Shaddowez?

~Titus

She hasn't done anything worth me interacting with. While she's definitely not scum hunting, there are other people who are scummier IMO.

[shaddowez]

So for me, right now, it's a PoE between massive, Aristophanes, NH, shaddowez, SirCakez, Jeanne, and Firebringer.

So just to be clear - your PoE is the entirety of the tojam wagon. That means you think no scum stayed off the wagon, right?

@shaddowez, why are you WIFOM-ing so hard on the BBT kill? If NH is legit, maybe he wasn't killed because scum is scared of a protective role. In my opinion, BBT was killed for being universally town-read. BBT was never going to be lynched, which would be a serious obstacle for scum.

Is one line explaining my thought process WIFOM-ing "so hard"? I won't deny there's a little WIFOM there as it's speculation, but it's not like I'm fighting for it, using it as my only argument, or that it's so far fetched it's not even possible.

As a sidenote, I'm still waiting on NH to tell me what they saw when they followed me. Based on their followup questions to me, I'm pretty sure they're not legit.

[shaddowez]

We did track you. You weren't our first choice but going down this road is laughable. We tracked you. Now, you play your cards. Got an explanation for our results?

You keep saying the same thing, but haven't said where you tracked me.

[shaddowez]

because presently it is the only argument you have brought forth. I am aware that both you and NH want each other to play your cards first, but casting shadows without anything but speculation is not helping. If you have something concrete, bring it to the table.

There's no way for me to have anything concrete until NH tells me what they saw. I know what role I have, what I'm allowed or not allowed to do at night, and what I did. If people decide to believe NH over me, my flip will at least prove NH is scum, but me giving out info first would negate that ability.

P-Edit

- I know what you're implying, I want you to outright say it.

[shaddowez]

Aaaaand, UNVOTE: .

I just realized something - thematically, this would make sense. I bet there's a bus driver in this setup.

[shaddowez]

Yes, I did go somewhere - I tried to visit GuiltyLion. However, my action failed and was given no other info as to why. If GL and BBT were driven, that would explain it.

[shaddowez]

And I want you to comment on Jeanne's lynch me comment

I don't really see it as alignment indicative. I can't go into detail on why due to ongoing games.

[shaddowez]

FB

- Feel free not to answer, but I'll explain why afterwards. Is your PR active (ie you have to target somebody)?

[shaddowez]

So, here's an interesting fact - I'm the neighborizer. If NH actually knows who neighborized them, that person should cc me and NH can confirm it.

[shaddowez]

So, here's an interesting fact - I'm the neighborizer. If NH actually knows who neighborized them, that person should cc me and NH can confirm it.

Lol. You claimed investigative earlier. Fire and I both know you're not the neighborizer. Nice rolefish. You can die now.

I was going to go into large scenarios but this just saved the time.

Yes, I did go somewhere - I tried to visit GuiltyLion. However, my action failed and was given no other info as to why. If GL and BBT were driven, that would explain it.

Nice try.

VOTE: NH

[shaddowez]

Plus you going nowhere is really inconsistent with you trying to neighborize (you would be shown as being bus driven to bbt under your theory).

When Fire gets on, he'll vote you too most likely too.

That was my theory, but you've already brought up multiple options like Ascetic and blocking. Additionally, this is all assuming that Aero actually "messed up" and sent you multiple PMs about your result.

[shaddowez]

@Shaddowez, And your explanation about how you're the neighborizer who neighborized me and Fire when you targeted neither of us and there's someone in the hood claiming he did?

I'm not claiming to have neighborized you and Fire. I'm telling you what my role PM says. I visted GL last night to neighborize him, which for some reason failed. I said bus driver before you said you were in a hood, because you were implying you tracked me to BBT. Without your false implication, I would have assumed roleblock or JK (on GL, not me).

[shaddowez]

Just for completeness' sake: Shaddowez, why did you pick GL as your neighborize target?

I picked somebody I was town reading, but was unlikly to be an NK target.

Shadowez says he's the Neighborizer but that he didn't visit anyone last night

???
Very sure NH is town now. Intent to vote Shadowez.

I never said I didn't visit anyone, I said my action failed. Apparently reading comprehension 101 wasn't a prereq for this game...

I'm town, I'm certain there's scum on my wagon, and if my flip is the only thing that gets people to see that then so be it.

[shaddowez]

OK same thing. You didn't visit anyone last night so you couldn't have neighborized.

1) I'm not claiming to have neighborized FB or NH. I'm just saying what my role is. You're jumping to conclusions.

2) Again, there is no proof I didn't visit anyone. My action failed....bus driven to a dead person, ascetic, visiting a JK person....any of those would result in a failure.

I'm really not even sure what you're trying to get at here, other than justifying your sheep vote.

Additionally, from the Neighborizer wiki:

A Neighborizer without any Neighbors at the start of the game is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. Any players added to a Neighborhood are added at the

start of the next day

, regardless of whether the Neighborizer lives or not, and their Role Name is not changed.

So unless Aero has a second neighborizer he gave the Day modifier to, the claim of the neighborhood starting at the beginning of the night makes no sense. They can also only add one person - so if it's only FB and NH in the hood, at least one of them is lying.

[shaddowez]

The neighborizer chooses two targets during the day and we get into the PT for a night and day phase.

....wut?

Neighborizer

A Neighborizer is a player who can target other players at Night to recruit them into a Neighborhood. They may begin speaking to each other at the end of the Night, or at the beginning of the next Night - it depends on whether the moderator allows the Neighbors to speak during the Day.

You targeting a dead person would still give a tracker result.. and I think we've done enough w/ the day lez get a hammer.

-Dad

Yes it would, but you already said that Aero gave you no result. If that's the case, then there

IS NO TRACKER RESULT

. You don't know if I went anywhere or not, because YOU GOT NO RESULT. That line of reasoning is inane at best.

We deserve to lose as town if I get lynched following this ridiculousness.

[shaddowez]

As a heads up, I've got a really bad headache today, so chances are I won't be around much more.