Closed Setups Are Horrible

[kuribo]

Open setups make you a worse Mafia player by giving you bad habits and a lack of gameplay imagination.

Opens are the worst and I would rather tear my arm off and stick it in my own ass than have to play them exclusively.

[kuribo]

Open setups make you a worse Mafia player by giving you bad habits and a lack of gameplay imagination.

Opens are the worst and I would rather tear my arm off and stick it in my own ass than have to play them exclusively.

Closed actually make you less imaginative. And require you have much more experience with the game to do if you want to get "creative", it rewards players who have played more versus newer players.

Where as opens or semi-opens give everyone the same amount of information. An experienced person playing in a closed has a better understanding of what the setup than any newer player would. For all they know it could be anything.

Rewarding experienced players over any player, is inherently unfair.

Thats why Closed are shit.

Open makes you less imaginative. You're given a rigid list of what you can and cannot claim. If you're lying, you will be counterclaimed. In a closed setup, as long as you know a little something about balance, nearly anything is a plausible claim.

No one is saying it doesn't favor more experienced players. Some of us prefer that. People who have gotten better at playing will naturally play with people who are better.

There are players that don't like to be given the setup before hand. Some people enjoy that aspect. If you don't, no ones making you sign up for them.

Mafia is a game that inherently rewards experience. It's why we have a newbie queue. Claiming that ones experience shouldn't lend them an edge... Literally removed the entire point of a game. No fucking shit people who have played longer will be better. The same goes for anything. The same goes for football, baseball, counter strike, dota, business, and life.

Open games are fucking easy mode bullshit and Normals aren't much better.

[kuribo]

Like


Everything in fucking life gives you an advantage over the less experienced.

If you want to live your life playing with less experienced players, stay in the Newbie queue forever. If, however, you'd rather gain actual experience instead of deriding those that have learned, try joining a Large Theme. Because here's a news flash: experienced players don't always smoke newbies. Hell, newbies can be harder to read sometimes.

But if you just stay in your safe little Closed bubble, you never learn shit and won't ever be shit.

[kuribo]

No, it makes you wiser. Instead of bullshiting and making stuff up and hoping someone who understands the hosts mind better doesn't call you out on a claim, it makes it so those who understand site meta can better lie than those who don't. And balance changes with site meta. One site sense of balance is slightly different than another. Host have also different sense of balance either. Like their is no straightforward balanced game.

If you think that's how a good fakeclaim is made, it's no damn wonder you don't know what you're talking about.

[kuribo]

Closed Setups are shit because their is no transparency and the host could literally, if they wanted. Do whatever they want in the game. Who is going to stop them? Site mods? They don't see the game. Co mods? That is if they have one. The reviewed game that other people have done could be another game entirely. Does this happen? I don't know, haven't seen it, but the lack of transparency annoys me and it has potential to happen.

They literally can't. A mod that runs some stupid troll bullshit will mod exactly one game before word gets around. People have had their moderator experience actioned against because of things like lying to listmods. You're arguing against something that maybe MAYBE if ever would happen exactly once.

What's to stop you from PMing other people and telling them you're town in a game? Nothing. Except the code of honor and the rules. The same thing applies to what you said.

[kuribo]

If a game is specifically made and gives an unfair advantage to someone before the game starts, I call foul. And I am not saying you shouldn't get better and play more games, I am saying if I told you "Hey lets play a game, but I can't tell you all the details the game, and you won't understand whats going on until you play a few dozen parts" you probably would say "No, I don't want to play a game I have no idea how it works". The game should reward you for being good at SCUMHUNTING. Thats a basic part of the game, not for knowing what the game IS.

Again, that is literally not something that happens, ever. If you don't like the looks of a game mechanic that's being used... don't sign up.

[kuribo]

The game should reward you for being good at SCUMHUNTING.

Closed setups focus MORE on scumhunting because outguessing the mod is so incredibly pointless that setup spec is an exercise in futility. You don't get a handy little roadmap of "this is what's in the game so if two guys claim cop, one is lying" or "oh shit, that guy must be cop because the setup says there's a cop and no one CC'd him." All you have is your scum hunting.

[kuribo]

Thank you, insulting my experience and knowledge is excellent way of engaging in a dialogue.
How about instead of attacking me, you explain what I don't understand?

A fakeclaim isn't made by "bullshiting and making stuff up and hoping someone who understands the hosts mind better doesn't call you out on a claim," it's a delicate artform that takes into account:

Risk- You don't know the setup, so you don't know if you're going to be counterclaimed. Go ahead, claim doc. If there's an actual doc, and he counterclaims you, the players will have to decide who they believe more.

Forethought- A well-done fakeclaim will be planned out and prepared for long before the claim is made. Gonna claim cop? You're going to have to claim results. You better damn well not have placed even an iota of suspicion of someone after the time you supposedly received your "innocent result."

Strategy- There are ways to counterclaim someone besides directly. Scum can claim tracker and say the "cop" never went anywhere, for example.

There are so many more nuances to a good fakeclaim than "bullshitting and making stuff up and hoping someone who understands the hosts mind better doesn't call you out on a claim." The fact that you don't seem to understand this, tells me you really don't understand what you're talking about. And I don't mean that as an insult, i'm simply stating a fact that's obvious to anyone who's actually played here.

This isn't some pisspoor backwater mafia site where you can, as you say, claim to be bus driven in an open setup without a bus driver. Do you know how fast you'd be lynched for that? I wouldn't even have to press my caps lock to get your ass strung up on that one.

[kuribo]

well, technically pure newbies can be better than more experienced players if they actually know how to read (research) and have basic reasoning skills, so that's not true

When Tierce first started here, she had a pretty rapid rise through the ranks of opinion, mostly because she gained a lot of experience by reading probably close to every single game that had ever been played on the site.

She'd bring up things I had done years ago that I'd long forgotten about.