Mini 1768: Detective Conan Mafia (Game Over: Town Wins)

[Yarrrrgami]

How about: town JK sees roleblocker claim>>>>town response is to see that as impossible given role>>>>suspicion ensues

Phoenix did none of that. What now?

I think kagami has the right of it, and I kind of think we shld kind of wait a bit and see. I wanted to talk to kagami first cos I wanted to make sure we were not stumbling all over each other but wrt game balance I trust kagami's judgment 100%.

I think if you took a step back and peeled yourself off of phoenix it might give you a more global understanding of the gamestate. if you want to break it down in set up terms it depends if the mod is treating the role as a protective with a hindrance to town, so the roles wld not conflict from that perspective.

which is why I prefer to go by in thread play.

[A Real Scourge]

you can't say anything with 100% certainty with setup spec until you've seen everything the scum has, Tails. mods can and will give similar or duplicate roles to players! i personally haven't played in games like that yet, but i've seen them.

you're arguing for Turtles town based on his power being OP, and you're arguing against other players being town because they'd be too OP for town. stop with this nonsense, it's grating.

[A Real Scourge]

Unofficial Vote Count

Phoenix Wright [3]: Soren, Tails, Firebringer
Turtles of Despair [2]: A Real Scourge, Radical Rat
Radical Rat [2]: Phoenix Wright, KainTepes
Soren [2]: Turtles of Despair (assuming the double-vote was valid)
Firebringer [1]: Yarrrrgami

Not Voting: KainTepes

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

[Phoenix Wright]

UNVOTE:

[A Real Scourge]

blehhh. not voting section should say no one

anyway mollie's right in that we don't know for certain what roles indicate what.
one thing, though. i think Barn's rolecop MAY indicate scum with some kind of scummy role. not certain, but possibly. since FA was a goon and Turtles is a double-voter, i think it's likely the last scum has a role that is geared toward scum. possibly a 1-shot strongman? i don't know. could be wrong and Conan might just be there to verify claims.

[A Real Scourge]

Phoenix you should vote Turtles if you're looking for somewhere good to put your vote. *wiggles eyebrows*

[A Real Scourge]

VOTE: Barn
VOTE: Barn
Yeah L-1 for the giggles, I am surprised 3 people have output so little and it is pretty sketchy to go with it.
I may revoke this when I talk to Kirro though.

~Bee

original Barn vote was 'for the giggles', not really a strong scumread, it was entirely based on activity.

Plz go to your outbox and undo that if you aren't sure I don't want to waste day 1. :C
~Bee

after the first time Barn was hammered without a claim, beeboy doesn't care and just wants the lynch to go through, despite wanting Phoenix investigated for accidentally hammering earlier. beeboy never ends up asking Barn for a claim, and doesn't seem to care.

VOTE: Barn
L-1
Everything I said before still stands now.
~Bee

and he immediately brings Barn back to L-2 when he can (beeboy miscounted, which is understandable tbh haha)
still not looking for a claim, not asking for a claim. just saying 'everything he said before still stands now', despite not giving any actual reasons for Barn to be scum beyond inactivity.

I decided that I will ne\/er get around to reading the last day and will just roll with my day 1 knowledge =D
~Bee

What did I miss?

ignores the last day, where we

lynched scum

, in favour of just proceeding on day 1 knowledge and word of mouth.

I wouldn't mind Scourge tbh but I want to follow my gut read on D1.
VOTE: Soren x2

@mod is this a \/alid double \/ote format?

~Bee

and then votes Soren, based on day 1 things and a gut read. also voices that he'd vote me and tbh would likely be on my wagon if i had one.

i don't see the town. there isn't any. as i looked through the ISO, i found posts that i agreed with, most of them were things like theory or NIA. i didn't see anything that really looked like town motivation. if someone also wants to ISO Turtles to look for town motivation, i'll listen, but unless they do i don't see a reason for anyone to be avoiding the wagon.

[Radical Rat]

Okay, let's take another route. My role in conjunction with Sonic's counters Phoenix. There is no way he's town.

Well, that brings up the obvious question of just what your role is and how it synergizes with roleblocker in such a way that a JK is impossible.

[A Real Scourge]

best not to press that, Sonic. we can do it tomorrow. no need to have Tails claiming as well when he hasn't been run up.

[Turtles of Despair]

ARS did you just go through our ISO in hopes to scum paint us?

~Bee

[Turtles of Despair]

jailkeepers don't receive feedback, so he wouldn't have been told if he'd been roleblocked. and it sounds like he sent it to jeanne. he should just ask her if his action was submitted on night 2 or not.

process of elimination, Tails. there's no reason to think he's town, but there are reasons to think other players are town. and your Phoenix case doesn't make him scum either, as i've explained.

that's an interesting choice, Turtles. why'd you ignore my request for your complete reads?

I need to let the day linger for a bit since I did not read Day 2 at all.
~Bee

[A Real Scourge]

glad that made you pop up and say hi!
you gonna answer my readslist question or what?

also, yes. i'd like you dead.

preview: then how about you give that a shot? go examine the scum lynch.
the tactic of 'waiting' to get people to do alignment indicative things in the day also strangely doesn't often have results.

[Radical Rat]

best not to press that, Sonic. we can do it tomorrow. no need to have Tails claiming as well when he hasn't been run up.

I wasn't gonna press for it, but he brought it up as a way to prove Phoenix' scumminess.
If he won't share, I'd prefer he find a different, non-setup argument.

[A Real Scourge]

Tails has already given his argument. i mean, it didn't indicate scum at all, but that's cool.

[A Real Scourge]

we should push Turtles. there's no reason not to. if we run him up, and he's town, then maybe it'll urge him to actually scumhunt. come on, that's good, right? not that he's town, but those of you who like, have him as a null read shouldn't object to that.
since he's scum i predict he'll either keep a stiff lip or say something that we can wring some info about his buddies from.

Nick you should help us out too. either vote Turtles or put out a case on someone else. <3 you're at L-2 with a double-voter, so if you're town i want you to say things. i know you're not here atm i'm just saying

[Turtles of Despair]

nah, Jeanne confirmed that Turtles can't use his double vote to lynch two players at once. she hasn't confirmed anything about whether it works in lylo and Turtles never answered the question when Yarrrrgami asked because he was 'afraid of being nightkilled'. for being a double voter. actually come to think of it people have been attributing too much power to the double vote this entire game. it's not that debilitating.

I thought for sure she said something about that, but looking back she has not. I guess I saw someone speculating that and misattributed the memory?
Whatever.

I guess I'm not really opposed to Turtles lynch, but it's a darn shame to be putting this much pressure on someone inactive... but then again, maybe they're hiding and this will bring them out.
VOTE: Turtles of Despair

I said it didn't work in Lylo. I originally didn't know and asked the mod to clarify.

~Bee

[A Real Scourge]

oh right, that's my mistake. i noticed it while ISOing you but forgot to say.

so, Tails, Turtles is a double-voter whose double-vote doesn't work in lylo. can you tell me how OP that is for scum? hint: it isn't at all, and so doesn't stop him from being scum, so he should really be a null read for you at

best

, and definitely not discounted for scum.

[Phoenix Wright]

jailkeepers don't receive feedback, so he wouldn't have been told if he'd been roleblocked. and it sounds like he sent it to jeanne. he should just ask her if his action was submitted on night 2 or not.

process of elimination, Tails. there's no reason to think he's town, but there are reasons to think other players are town. and your Phoenix case doesn't make him scum either, as i've explained.

that's an interesting choice, Turtles. why'd you ignore my request for your complete reads?

I need to let the day linger for a bit

since I did not read Day 2 at all.

~Bee

Why would a member of the town not read the topic at all?

[A Real Scourge]

it's because he's scum, Nick! i totally went over this.

though lazy town exists. that's why that isn't the only thing i talked about.

[Tails]

you can't say anything with 100% certainty with setup spec until you've seen everything the scum has, Tails. mods can and will give similar or duplicate roles to players! i personally haven't played in games like that yet, but i've seen them.

you're arguing for Turtles town based on his power being OP, and you're arguing against other players being town because they'd be too OP for town. stop with this nonsense, it's grating.

These are legit reasons for why I'm reaching the conclusion I am. Good game design vs. incredibly poor design. You're arguing for poor design because PoE i.e. "I has good feels about everyone else. Who cares what actual game info says.". At this rate, if I actually came out with a cop innocent on Turtles, you'd argue against it because it doesn't fit your view of the game. I am looking at it from a pure game design standpoint, using information that is both public and private, and I'm telling you that Phoenix's role does not make sense as town unless the mod made the worst designed game in the history of mafia scum. And the only reason that Turtles will be scum is if she did exactly that. So I'm going to err on the side of not complete stupidity and say that Turtles is town and Phoenix is freaking scum.

[Tails]

I also feel like you're cherry picking here.

[Tails]

I mean, it's down to either a bad case of confirmation bias, or you're just scum just trying to hard push this through.

[Tails]

so, Tails, Turtles is a double-voter whose double-vote doesn't work in lylo. can you tell me how OP that is for scum? hint: it isn't at all, and so doesn't stop him from being scum, so he should really be a null read for you at

best

, and definitely not discounted for scum.

Double voter is still a powerful role for scum. The caveat for Lylo is something I'd expect either way.

[Phoenix Wright]

you can't say anything with 100% certainty with setup spec until you've seen everything the scum has, Tails. mods can and will give similar or duplicate roles to players! i personally haven't played in games like that yet, but i've seen them.

you're arguing for Turtles town based on his power being OP, and you're arguing against other players being town because they'd be too OP for town. stop with this nonsense, it's grating.

These are legit reasons for why I'm reaching the conclusion I am. Good game design vs. incredibly poor design. You're arguing for poor design because PoE i.e. "I has good feels about everyone else. Who cares what actual game info says.". At this rate, if I actually came out with a cop innocent on Turtles, you'd argue against it because it doesn't fit your view of the game. I am looking at it from a pure game design standpoint, using information that is both public and private, and I'm telling you that Phoenix's role does not make sense as town unless the mod made the worst designed game in the history of mafia scum. And the only reason that Turtles will be scum is if she did exactly that. So I'm going to err on the side of not complete stupidity and say that Turtles is town and Phoenix is freaking scum.

I guess this must be the worst designed game in the history of Mafiascum then

[Radical Rat]

Well. The only way to find out is to get a flip from one of them.

Right now, I'm feeling like Turtles because I happen to have very solid Townread on Phoenix, and Scourge is right in that there's very little Town in the iso, and just skipping an entire day seems wonky.
Plus they seem to be selectively lurking. They show up whenever Scourge digs something up, then vanish when questions get asked.

Now, if we'd like to let them do their thing a bit longer, I'm also not opposed to lynching you, Soren, or Kain.