Mini 1777: Varied Music Mafia: Finale

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VOTE: GuyFawkes

This guy is definitely scum.

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Why is GuyFawkes still alive?

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I'm not sure I believe the miller claim. I think it's a pretty silly play as scum but on the other hand if you do intend to claim miller you have to do it early on so yeah.

Why shouldn't he be?

We're passed the RVS stage. What's your opinion on things such as the Kitty wagon, camn's stance on lurkers, Almost50's wagon-for-wagon's-sake, my opinion of Aristo, or iraonavp's complete abscense?

Weird response to obvious fluff. Honestly most of your posts sound like scum fishing for town credit.

VOTE: Thurthame

I'd like to do this for now.

[duppin]

UNVOTE: camn

VOTE: duppin

duppin needs to talk more, so vote. This is the most I've seen of them:

I'm not sure I believe the miller claim. I think it's a pretty silly play as scum but on the other hand if you do intend to claim miller you have to do it early on so yeah.

Why shouldn't he be?

We're passed the RVS stage. What's your opinion on things such as the Kitty wagon, camn's stance on lurkers, Almost50's wagon-for-wagon's-sake, my opinion of Aristo, or iraonavp's complete abscense?

Weird response to obvious fluff. Honestly most of your posts sound like scum fishing for town credit.

VOTE: Thurthame

I'd like to do this for now.

I don't like the first couple sentences, especially. It says nothing while attempting to appear to have an opinion on something. "I don't believe it but it would be silly as scum but it makes sense if he's telling the truth" makes my head spin. Attempting to have an opinion on something while not actually committing one way or another is a scumtell in my book.

What is this even supposed to mean?

I don't know if I believe the miller claim, it's fairly simple. I think it is possible he is the miller, but it could definitely be a scum play as well. That is not the same thing as not commiting and that's a really silly statement from you. I simply shared my opinion on the miller claim, something which you (oh the irony) did not, so I'd actually like to what you think about it.

In any case I'm okay with my current vote.

@Thurhame, can you explain your read on camn?

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[quote="In post 119, The Archmage Ludicrous"

I understand your position, it's just that I always find it suspicious when someone states a non-position (I'm not sure if I believe it = healthy suspicion, but not confidence one way or the other) and justifies it with easily extrapolated information that doesn't suggest too much one way or the other (It's what a miller would do if claiming early, but could also be a scum play) is more likely scum than those who don't.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your opinion. In fact, sharing opinions is great, and you should do it more! Which is why I voted for you, since I wanted more activity from you. Fire under the heels, and the like.

I don't think it's ironic that I haven't shared my opinion on the miller claim. My criticism of the way you phrased your opinion versus my having one or not isn't ironically related. You could make a case that it's hypocritical, but I'd maintain that it isn't.

My opinion on the miller claim, if you'd like to know, is complete apathy. A miller claim on its own means nothing. More interested in ira's complete lack of doing anything interesting, and totally unexplained vote on me.[/quote]

I do think it is ironic. You call me out for stating my opinion on the miller claim. You claim I am "not commiting" while you simply chose to ignore it, as it seems to imply you think ignoring it is less anti town than not commiting. This discussion is irrelevant though.

Ah, so voting the mod & not having an opinion is scummy / antitown yet lurking and only posting what? 3 content filled posts in an entire day is not?

You just claimed you didn't really have an opinion but this sounds you do have one. I'd like to know what you think about camn, Thurhame and Aristo.

Anyway,
UNVOTE: Thurhame

So I would expect at least one scum in the neighborhood.

I assume the last member is Aristophanes based on the fact Thurhame that went from Aristo > camn. That most likely means there is at least one scum between Aristo, Thurhame and camn.

I think camn is town. Wasn't a fan of Thurhame's earlier posts but I kinda liked his later posts (his claim sounded genuine) so that leaves Aristo and I assume that is the main reason there is already a wagon on him. I'm okay with this.

VOTE: Vote Aristo

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Eh failed quotes. Let me fix:

I understand your position, it's just that I always find it suspicious when someone states a non-position (I'm not sure if I believe it = healthy suspicion, but not confidence one way or the other) and justifies it with easily extrapolated information that doesn't suggest too much one way or the other (It's what a miller would do if claiming early, but could also be a scum play) is more likely scum than those who don't.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your opinion. In fact, sharing opinions is great, and you should do it more! Which is why I voted for you, since I wanted more activity from you. Fire under the heels, and the like.

I don't think it's ironic that I haven't shared my opinion on the miller claim. My criticism of the way you phrased your opinion versus my having one or not isn't ironically related. You could make a case that it's hypocritical, but I'd maintain that it isn't.

My opinion on the miller claim, if you'd like to know, is complete apathy. A miller claim on its own means nothing. More interested in ira's complete lack of doing anything interesting, and totally unexplained vote on me.

I do think it is ironic. You call me out for stating my opinion on the miller claim. You claim I am "not commiting" while you simply chose to ignore it, as it seems to imply you think ignoring it is less anti town than not commiting. This discussion is irrelevant though.

Ah, so voting the mod & not having an opinion is scummy / antitown yet lurking and only posting what? 3 content filled posts in an entire day is not?

You just claimed you didn't really have an opinion but this sounds you do have one. I'd like to know what you think about camn, Thurhame and Aristo.

[duppin]

While I do agree that quickhammering anti-town, it's usually (in my experience) town who does it as scum are often too scared to do it.
This is obviously WIFOM though. Nonetheless I'm not really interested in the Katsuki train. Looked over his ISO once more and while you could argue that his attitude has been rather poor, I didn't find anything particular suspicious and I don't think quickhammering is a scumtell.

I'm still not sure if this is the usual reaction train we have to someone quickhammering or it's actually a legitimate push.
In any case I don't like this post at all:

In the unlikely event Katsuki flips town I shall be very, very angry. Quickhammering on Day 1 is NEVER a town play.

It is possible Katsuki is scum, but I'm inclined to believe that's not the case and I think it is way more likely that scum are going to push the "look he quickhammered!1111" wagon really hard today.
(I also have to mention that I do not find iraonavp suspicious).

I'll return to my original vote on Thurhame. Still liked some of his later posts yesterday though.

VOTE: Thurhame

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You just said that you weren't interested in the Katsuki train...

Two of the players Katsuki thought were scum-aligned flipped town-aligned, what's stopping a third?

I'm not interested in the Katsuki train as in I am not going to join it.

Sure two of the players Katsuki thought were scum aligned flipped town, but I honestly don't think that means anything this early on, but might be worth looking into at some point.
I'm not scumreading Katsuki. I'm actually a bit null on him, but I find Thurhame's vote on him today very suspicious. This is a scum post:

In the unlikely event Katsuki flips town I shall be very, very angry. Quickhammering on Day 1 is NEVER a town play.

Anyway,

I still like VOTE: duppin

Though I could be persuaded to vote Kats.

I don't like that GuyFawkes has been so low in content, though.

So...

UNVOTE: duppin
VOTE: GuyFawkes

I'm honestly not sure what to make of you yet. I find it rather ironic how you keep calling people out for lack of content when you haven't really done anything either. You just parked your vote on me yesterday but you never really attempted to push it anywhere and have been ignoring the main trains for most of the game. Most of your "content" is basically calling people out for low content. You claim you could be persuaded to vote on Kats but I'd like you to elaborate on that. What's your read on him?

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Why is that a scum-aligned post, duppin? Is it just because you disagree with him?

It has nothing to do with me disagreeing with his read. I think it is a scum post because there is no town motivation behind it. He was already trying to backtrack on his vote claiming that it would be Katsuki's own fault if he flipped town. Because we just have different playstyles, but when I push on someone I'm not going to open it up with a "hey guys, in case he should flip town it's his own fault because that was anti town ok?". Sure the posts looks worse because from my point of view because I believe scum are more likely to push on a 'policy' lynch on someone for quickhammering as I assume everyone here knows that it isn't a scum tell (which might be a shame to be honest).

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duppin: reasons probably include tunnel vision (on my part), but also because their play is basically the same as mine when I'm scum.

Honestly that's a pretty weird read.

Stuff like reacting when someone pushes against him with vaguely accusatory questions, without actually trying to promote them as scum feels nasty to me. Plus, I'm not sure how I liked the logic on his vote on Aristo Day 1. 'Aristo is scum because he is a neighbor with camn and Thur, and I think both of them are town?'

I can understand this point but it's not entirely true. It's mostly your 'push' I've been questioning, because the stuff you keep calling people out for is the exact same thing you do. I don't think this is a scumtell, which is why I never called you scum. It could just as easily be a tpr trying to lay low or you could even be a a VT trying to bait a NK and whatever. That doesn't mean I'm a fan of how hypocritical you've been so far. [/quote]

About the neighborhood I stand by my logic. I assumed it only consisted of the three of them and I'd be very surprised if all of them were town. I liked Thur's post (where he claimed) and I believe camn is town, which is why I wanted to pursue Aristo. Please tell me why this logic is bad? The only issue with it was that I didn't realise they were more three.

I mean... first of all, why would town try to reveal the neighborhood? Second of all, it's not guaranteed that one neighbor of a neighborhood is scum (though it is overwhelmingly likely). Third of all

there is absolutely no way that duppin can know that Aristo is a neighbor.

It was a super weak case, and it feels more like duppin might have been trying to jump onto a developing Aristo wagon? Maybe?

Irrelevant. It was obvious that Aristo was a neighbor by the way since Thurhame was pressuring his neighbors. (kept calling out camn and Aristo).
I agree it's not guaranteed that one neighbor is scum, but I'd be veeeeery surprised if this wasn't the case and seeing as it was day 1 it is perfectly valid to pursue this. I wouldn't call it a "super weak case", but implying anyone would have a super strong case on day 1 is a bit of a stretch.

My vote stays on Thurhame.

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So, there. I am a VT, and I would have

preferred to eat the rope

or get NK'd over losing a PR, but the way you're acting (you as in plural you) it looks like my death will be in vain anyway.

What? Soaking a NK is great as a VT but a lynch? How about going for a lynch on scum instead?

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i'd be willing to switch my vote to thurhame

Then do it. Showing willingness w/o actual action does not move things forward.

That is true, but that vote came after the pressure on you. It sounds to me like you're saying that you don't really want to do anything because you want to soak a nk or a lynch for a TPR. Soaking a NK is valid but taking a lynch for a TPR makes no sense at all. It just sounds like a weird excuse for lurking but oh well.

I'd be willing to switch my vote to SnarkySnowman, but I'd really prefer to lynch an actual scumread rather than a mere lurker.

I know you've kinda already answered this in your previous posts, but can you please explain your scumread on Katsuki? Just sum everything up you find scummy please.

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2. That's kinda what I'm hoping to figure out with you here. I don't have as much time as usual for this, so I'm curious, do you have a suggested starting point?

For what it is worth, this is what bothers me a little. It sounds like you don't want to scumhunt yourself.

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What's with all the periods?

I assume it was a prodge.

Aristo, can you share your reads? You must have something.

[duppin]

What's with all the periods?

I assume it was a prodge.

Aristo, can you share your reads? You must have something.

I tried this before, and apparently he has absolutely nothing other than the unique ability to ask others for their reads, so he can agree with them.

I am rereading tonight.
How many times need I say this??

Um.. how many times have you said it? I honestly don't recall you saying it, so I apologise if I missed it.

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I'm honestly glad nothing really happened during the weekend, made it easy to catch up.

@Aristo, I appreciate you coming up with some actual reads, but that doesn't really change the fact that your play has been super weird. I still get the impression that you're playing really carefully (as in not trying to confront anyone) while just waiting for someone else to start something.

I still find Thurhame rather suspicious and don't really get the hard town reads on him but makes me believe I may have missed something. I am however not too fond of the people on his wagon. (I believe Katsuki is town, but find Aristo scummy and Almost50 questionable at best). I do however like the people on Aristo's train.

As for the Snarky wagon, I don't have a read on him and I assume the wagon is for pressure and possibly a policy lynch. Can't really argue against that and I would definitely like to get a better read on him as well.

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Are you just trolling at this point Aristo?

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Well I've played with you before. Why is your playstyle so weird this game?

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Well I've played with you before. Why is your playstyle so weird this game?

What makes you think it's playstyle? Serious question.

I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean?

[duppin]

Well I've played with you before. Why is your playstyle so weird this game?

What makes you think it's playstyle? Serious question.

I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean?

He is asking why you think this is a playstyle issue not an issue of scumminess.
I gather that in saying "playstyle" he thinks you are creating a preemptive reason for me to get out of a scumread. Which my response follows perfectly.

Therefore, I must ask, is the difference in my play scummy to you?

I see. I think it is rather obvious that I find your play suspicious (I've already explained why). This has nothing to do with you playing differently. You changing up your playstyle is a null tell at best, it doesn't really mean anything.

The only problem I have is that I can't help but feel you are trolling but I'm not entirely sure why you would do that.

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I think I'd rather lynch Aristo than Thurhame at this point. Really not a fan of the people on Thurhame's train.

What's the vote count at?

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Well I've played with you before. Why is your playstyle so weird this game?

What makes you think it's playstyle? Serious question.

I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean?

Why is it playstyle as opposed to a difference in alignment?

Isn't that still his playstyle then? In either case his play has been completely different. I doubt his sudden change has anything to do with his alignment and he also claimed he has been playing pretty weird in his last couple of games so meh.