Mini 1782 Game Over

[shaddowez]

Woot, ego post!

[shaddowez]

Also, I will be low activity until Monday, 4/4 (standard weekend V/LA)

[shaddowez]

Lowell's avatar is dice. Then again if I have to explain the joke there is no joke . Also should have been "guess it's time to..."

The missing word threw me off for a minute, but I really hope I wasn't the only one that actually got it.

[shaddowez]

Yay, I'm back, and just tried wrapping my head around those 11 pages of pre-game....RPS (random posting stage)? Is it bad that I was hoping Kain forgot to confirm and was sad when I saw he actually posted?

The FA/RC interactions are odd. I'm not quite sure what to make of them, especially with the change in tone from the initial "bussing" conversation which seems to have gotten dropped.

APF's explanation of RC's "fake-townslip" in 142 and 144 are non-sensical (at least to me). It feels like he was trying to get traction early on, and when that failed backpedaled to justify himself. He's also throwing up readslists already, which always read as scummy to me since there's no effort required and are easy to fake activity.

I've never been in a game with scum!Lowell that I can recall, but I'm prety sure every game I've been in with him he's been mislynched, and so far his posting reminds me of those games.

What's the reason behind people (pre-)voting Roshar? I don't see anything in there I would call scummy.

While I agree with Jake's sentiment about this pre-game/long D1 phases, I don't necessarily think this will extend D1. The first few days of a standard game are random anyway, and people are reacting to accusations/pre-votes just like they do in RVS. There's as good a chance as any that an actual vote will happen before deadline because of this. I disagree with his reluctance to interact just because of the phase name, though - does that mean you don't interact in Twilight, since nothing counts then either?

Pre-Vote: Jake from State Farm

[shaddowez]

Also, FA is probably scum for wanting all the page tops!

[shaddowez]

Sorry, was a bad joke about your repeat references to getting page tops.

[shaddowez]

Considering this is a game where

everything's made up and the points

the votes don't matter yet, how is it derailing a wagon? I didn't say I was against it, I asked for a fresh perspective on people's reasoning. Trying to read a couple hundred posts at once is much different than reading them as we go along.

And speaking of that wagon, does it not seem weird to you that so many people are already pushing for it? You don't think scum would want to preform a target train for once D1 starts?

[shaddowez]

Your pre-vote against Roshar seems to have some substance, but that was a Page 2 vote.

Lowell's vote in 126 makes absolutely no sense to me, as I'm not sure where Roshar is not "holding it together". Does this make Lowell scummy to me? No, because he may have reasons that I just don't understand.

RC wants to pressure him in 189. That's not reason in and of itself, I want to know why RC wants to pressure him. I also don't see where Roshar calls RC scum like he accuses.

Any reason you didn't question Maverick on 163 when he does the same thing I did here, and never got any responses?

[shaddowez]

Can you reiterate your views/reads and reasoning on Roshar for me please?

What's the reason behind people (pre-)voting Roshar?

Yep, totally different. Oh, I'm sorry - Maverick asked one specific person, and I asked in general. So you're right, they are different. Would you prefer I create a new post to ask each person individually?

why you didn't elaborate the question you asked in the first place?

I didn't think it needed explanation. I saw people voting Roshar, read her ISO, didn't see anything I found scummy, but instead of dismissing other people's reads asked for reasons.

[shaddowez]

Pregame isn't the same thing as twilight silly rabbit. Not even close.

I don't disagree, but your reasoning for not engaging in pre-game sounded weak. "Votes don't count" - does that also mean you don't think we'll garner any information or be able to make any reads just because it's pre-game?

[shaddowez]

Why is anyone doing anything since the game hasn't started? 8 pages of useless posts

Then the game hasn't started...

When the title said pregame I didn't really pay attention to anything cause 1. It was pregame and I assumed people were just going to post random bs and 2. I was busy. Had a race on Saturday and all kinds of errands yesterday.

Once I realized people were actually playing during pregame I was sort of confuse by it. I've got better use of my time. I'm also annoyed by this long ass pregame.

When the game starts and my vote actually counts I'll pay attention. You can't get honest reactions from people if they know the votes on them don't matter.

Like we could literally lynch somebody in theory during pregame and their reactions wouldn't give me any info cause they know they can't be lynched so all this voting and shit is pointless

.

[shaddowez]

Those comments do not contain content. They just point out things you don't like. They're not conclusive.

What do you mean by conclusive? As in she's not explicity stating her views, or something else? I'm not sure how anything can be seen as conclusive on D1 with no flips or night actions, unless I'm misunderstanding.

Yeah, but there's never really a good reason to townread me.
I mean even the kind of emotionally manipulative shit I shy away from now I pulled out in the VLG game.
So yeah, I lie about reasons that people should townread me. Would it be more helpful if I told the truth and just said 'nah whatever I've done so far I could've done as scum'?

I do what it takes to get correctly townread, and if that means fudging truths then so be it.

I agree with others that the honesty is nice, but I have to disagree with the sentiment. It is almost never helpful for town to lie, and I think LaL is much more useful than gambits. I want to like RC as town for this comment, but I can't shake the feeling that it's trying to cover for himself.

So you think he was faking it when he thought you slipped to get a reaction out of you? I thought that was pretty genuine on his part.

I can tell you that it definitely wasn't.

No offense FA, but regardless of how well you know somebody, it's impossible to

know

if something is genuine or not, especially across the medium of typed text. The only way you can definitely know something right now is if you're in the informed minority.

vote RC

Cause if he's scum he's gonna fool everyone and probably win by getting a cop/gunsmith clear lynched. If he's town well RC is never town.

Is this a serious vote, or are you treating this like RVS since you didn't engage in pre-game?

Do you happen to have an estimate for when you're going to start playing? Or will we be getting another 30 or so posts that are variations of "sorry guys it's just too early for me to be playing serious"? At least our other high-volume posters are mixing in content with the silliness. Will this help motivate you to start playing?

I like smith's directness here. I also like his reads list, since he actually gives reasons for his reads and not just a grading system. smith is a town read for me.

Btw reads list suck. Please nobody else do them.

Are you seriously asking for people to not provide information to the rest of us? If you don't like them, you can decide not to read them, but getting people's views and reasons is pretty much the only way to convince the rest of the game of your argument.

that's why it's gunning after low hanging fruit.

I would just have to bullshit a brand new reason why you were scum that no one had mentioned yet.

and I'm not trying hard to keep up a case on smith. I haven't even given a case on smith.

The bolded pings me bad...I'm going to do an ISO dive on Nos, but right now she's probably my strongest scum read.

HELLO

You got prodded and this is what you come back with, 15+ pages later? If you're not going to participate in the game, please replace out.

[shaddowez]

Accidentally hit submit instead of preview..

VOTE: Nos

[shaddowez]

Sorry for the delay, but Nos' ISO dive as promised.

Her first 10 posts have pretty much no game related content (Her second post has a few one liners that she never follows up on).

She doesn't say she's not engaging in pregame, but makes a comment in 345 that there's only been one post since game started, and lays down a naked vote on smith. She then has several other posts with little to no content, except for what appears to be WKing Jake (368 and 379).

She says she's going to unvote smith since he backs down from Jake's case, then never does. There are basically no posts with content that don't revolve around Jake, or mentioning that she's not going for "low hanging fruit".

This makes me feel much better about Jake as town, and definitely has me keeping my vote where it is.

[shaddowez]

I also don't think his push/vote on Nos is particularly troublesome, though the low content is certainly a point that's been brought up before (see 343, possibly others ). I'm actually a bit curious why the Nos ISO dive leads to a town read of Jake, though. shaddowez, could you clarify that point?

Most of Nos' posts that have any sort of content in them are attempting to discredit any sort of scum read on Jake (mainly yours, but a couple others as well). Considering I'm reading Nos as scummy because of her lack of content and lack of scum hunting, along with the one or two other points I mentioned in 464, this behavior reads as either buddying or White Knighting. At this point in time I don't see Jake and Nos as scum buddies, so that makes me read Jake as townier.

[shaddowez]

I'm not sure what to make of Roshar or APF. I'm gonna have to re-read through things with them, but I do feel like there might be something there.

Have you managed to do this yet?

[shaddowez]

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

It's not about any

pushing

, it's about the way he's talking like an idiot suggesting that people are confscum on the second page.
Most games that I've lost as town have been either due to tunnelers who can't reconsider things or to scum disguising themselves as tunnelers and getting away with it.
I'm going to policy lynch anyone who does that shit.

VOTE: JFSF

Not dealing with someone with that attitude, regardless of alignment.

Do you plan on actually trying to find scum, or are you just going to suggest policy lynches the entire game?

[shaddowez]

Post game remind me to ask you a question about post 505 ok shadow?

I'll do my best. That does, however, mean I have to remember something more than what I had for breakfast any given day.

[shaddowez]

I don't like the fact your absent and distanced and suddenly appear to wine why someone is pushing a policy...

How am I absent and distant? You seem to be defending RC an awful lot, for what appears to be no good reason.

[shaddowez]

And not answering my question

[shaddowez]

I hate that my read has changed so quickly, but I quite like the logic in that from Roshar. UNVOTE: APF

VOTE: Clumsy

@Maverick

- Is this just a pressure vote?

@Rosh

- You voted Clumsy in 353 for an opportunistic vote, and subsequent posts make it sound like you have other scumreads. Is there a reason you're vote parked on somebody who isn't posting?

[shaddowez]

what did I missed? your absent and distanced obviously. do you want me to quote your whole ISO ?

I want you to explain what you mean...I'm here now, and when I can be, so claiming I'm absent makes no sense. And I'm really not sure what you mean by distant.

[shaddowez]

what did I missed? your absent and distanced obviously. do you want me to quote your whole ISO ?

I want you to explain what you mean...I'm here now, and when I can be, so claiming I'm absent makes no sense. And I'm really not sure what you mean by distant.

Additionally, what do either of those have to do with me asking somebody about why they're pushing policy lynches above anything else?

[shaddowez]

I'm also sympathetic to the Clumsy wagon.

Can you explain this? This is literally the fourth time you mention Clumsy in your ISO, and only one of them has anything to do with a read (which is useless anyway, since it's in your ordered reads list that has no info in it). There were two votes on Clumsy, neither of which had any substance, at least of one of which felt like a pressure vote.

You have almost no original content to speak of, and you're just comfortable voting for anyone that's getting attention.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: farmer

[shaddowez]

Shadow, same question I asked frozen. What did you get out of pregame?

The interactions between FA and RC have me on edge, and continue to do so. I don't think they're

both

scum, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them flips red. There's stuff I don't like from both of them, so I'd rather wait to vote there until I'm more sure.

My initial vote on Nos was based partially on pre-game, since she posted but didn't really interact, and then seems to be trying to use it for some of her justifications.

APF had a trend of following people, which he's continuing to do. I don't have a problem with the consistency, but not doing anything original seems like he's just tagging along and trying to lay low.

Maverick struck me as town fairly early, since he was very thorough in both his questions and reasonings when asked about things.

Other than yourself (which we've already had interactions about), those were the main players that actually made an impact on me during the pre-game phase (and to an extent still have).

[shaddowez]

Thank you. Any particular posts pregame I should read?

@Jake

- I didn't get a chance to get back on yesterday....it's been about 100+ posts, do you still want these?

The interactions between FA and RC have me on edge, and continue to do so. I don't think they're both scum, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them flips red. There's stuff I don't like from both of them, so I'd rather wait to vote there until I'm more sure.

there are things you dont like about me but

you dont like me

but you wont talk about them *? you dont like my push on you?

I don't really care about your push on me, the fact that you're actually trying to understand where I come from actually has me feeling more like you're coming from a town POV. As for not talking about what I find scummy about your posts nobody had asked, and it's generally gut from your interactions. When I get a chance (hopefully later this afternoon) I'll pull out more details.

VOTE: Shadow

This is scum I'm pretty sure.

I have my own feelings on this, but I want to hear why you think it's scum first RC. I'll explain my side after.

RC hasn't answered this, but are you going to provide your thoughts at any point?

Growing scumlean on Jake. Normally I consider brashness to be a town tell, but I'm getting a bit of a panic-vibe.

It's going to be sweet vindication if this Nos wagon (finally) gains steam and s/he flips scum. Then we'll see who's oprah!!*

I'm also interested in lynching clumsy. Read in ISO, in particular, he pings all my scum sirens. He discussed RVS, generates conversation on unrelated material (age of players!?), makes comments about how things are "weird" without offering any insight, and only posts meaningful content when responding to votes against him.

* fighting words

You never answered in pregame about your read on Roshar, your 365 is contradictory ("what I can do in a sentence he does in a wall, but he does nothing"), and you aren't following up on reads/votes. Can you please elaborate on your Nos read?

According to Jake, I have 'No respect for the game of Mafia' Brilliant. From my perspective, everything I have alleged is true, and now you're pissed. For the record I couldn't care less if I'm on your 'blacklist'. That's another AtE - if he feigns anger at being called a liar, he's going to come across more towny, surely? If I weren't so sold already on my read I'd probably fall for it and move on but given your experience I'm happy to look at that as a calculated move from scum that isn't coming off.

I have to agree with Mav here. AtE isn't in itself alignment indicative, but Jake seems to be doing it (intentionally or not) in a few places, making me think he's having a hard time coming up with valid arguments. I was starting to read Jake as town, but this brings him back to null for me.

You are more than capable of scumhunting and are not scumhunting.
So either you're scum or you're not making an effort and I'm fine lynching you either way.

Another suggestion for what equates to a policy lynch, which RC never responded to earlier.

You are more than capable of scumhunting and are not scumhunting.
So either you're scum or you're not making an effort and I'm fine lynching you either way.

w/e, what's your opinion of mav going from townlean to scum on jake in ~150 posts (6 pages) without interacting with him?

I am making an effort, I just haven't hit my scumhunting groove

I hit it midway through D1 in NY192

I hit it at the start of D1 in LI1757

hit it like D5 in NY188

it'll come

and you'll know

Are you seriously providing self meta on explanations why you're not scum hunting?

You have almost no original content to speak of, and you're just comfortable voting for anyone that's getting attention.

This is about me, right? It seems that way, since it seems like that whole post was about me, but it feels like you drew these accusations from a hat.

It was about you. Are you denying that what I said is correct? If so, please point me to content that proves so.

The interactions between FA and RC have me on edge, and continue to do so. I don't think they're

both

scum, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them flips red. There's stuff I don't like from both of them, so I'd rather wait to vote there until I'm more sure.

Am I wrong in concluding after reading this bit that you think it unlikely they are both town?[/quote]I do not believe they're the same alignment, so you are not wrong. It's possible this is TvT interactions, but it really doesn't feel it to me. I also don't think it's SvS, unless this is multiball in which case most of my assumptions regarding this interaction are out the window (if the numbers are in the rules post, I can't find them).

Case by Case Analyses

Shadow

and I need to know why your pushing a dilemma here and why you feel there is a scum here. Your not talking about it but keep mentioning it is alarming.

Shadows (Null- slightly town lean)

Same as above, will get to this when I have time next.

There's no way anyone can prove anything in a game of Mafia. Cmon you've played this game long enough to know that. Only way to get 100% proof is cop guilty and even then that's not confirmable proof.

Or you're in the informed minority.

[shaddowez]

@Mod

- Standard weekend V/LA until Monday 4/11.

[shaddowez]

@Farmer, Yes. RC and I just finished a game with scum KT. He's spammy and very trolley as scum. See Open 527. Jeanne's posts weaken that but KT having nine posts is town indicative to me.

Someone ask me more questions.

Do you think that's alignment indicative? I've modded a game with KT, and he was spammy as town in that game.

One thing which DID catch my eye was RC's 885. I'm not sure why "the way the mods dealt with the replacement" is necessarily AI. Does anyone else think it was?

I don't...personally I think that something like that questions the integrity of the mod.

vote: Clumsy

I would focus on either Clumsy or A Plain Farmer.
...snip...
i feel Clumsy's been overly quiet in general anyway.

Why APF?

I still think Jake/Max is a scum slot.

he was being obnoxious to the point where he nearly got policy-lynch'ed for his behaviour and would have if he wasn't replaced.

He wasn't being survivalistic at all.

You don't think that would have been against his wincon as either alignment? Why do you say that him not being survivalistic makes that more likely to be a scum slot? What do you think of his posts before that entire interaction?

that suggestion is actually pretty suspect looking back, seeing as the first game I played with RC I was literally put to L-1 for not scumhunting on D1

Could you elaborate on this please?

You are more than capable of scumhunting and are not scumhunting.
So either you're scum or

you're not making an effort and I'm fine lynching you either way.

Another suggestion for what equates to a policy lynch, which RC never responded to earlier.

I didn't read this as a policy lynch, I thought it was like "You're a good player but you're not playing well, that indicates that you're scum."

I bolded the part that caught my eye and the reason I brought it up. Saying "I'm fine lynching you either way" comes across to me like somebody that just wants a lynch, not somebody that was actually trying to find scum.

[shaddowez]

Apparently I forgot to post here yesterday - will get to it today.

For now, UNVOTE: .

[shaddowez]

All caught up now but I still need to recheck some stuff.

My initial scum reads are Roshar, Froot Loop and Clumsy but there are one or two others who haven't made an impression on me and I need to look back to see why that is.

@Huntress

- You seem to have disappeared. I know I'm about the third person to ask you this, but some of your reasons behind these reads would be nice.

I kinda agree regarding Shadowez, I wasn't stoked with him popping in with a wall full of questions earlier.

And what would you have rather seen? I mean, if you're scum I can understand why you wouldn't want me to try and figure out people's motivations or get explanations.

I'm alright with a Clumsy lynch, as well. He's unwilling to give any solid reads, and constantly says we should wait or he needs to re-read (see spoiler).

@APF: Absolutly. Also, RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain.

how the fuck can someone be obviously scum in a way too secret to be explained.

I meant to address this earlier too. If you do have some magic way of knowing that, you'll have to tell us this "secret" reason or you won't be getting those votes.

Convenient that you "meant to address it" but didn't until after somebody else did.

Spoiler: Clumsy quotes

I'm not sure what to make of Roshar or APF. I'm gonna

have to re-read

through things with them, but I do feel like there might be something there.

Ugh, I had a post written up yesterday and never posted it.

Give me a few to catch up

and remake what I can remember from before.

I have my own feelings on this, but I want to hear why you think it's scum first RC.

I'll explain my side after.

I... t

hink we need to wait

Roshar. The intent and claim and whatever is fine, but with all these replacements

I think we need to wait

on everyone to get in here before a lynch.

If anything, a hammer here with so many people absent is incredibly scummy and opportunistic.

We should have discussion, especially with new faces coming in, no?

So...

I guess for now we wait

?

Rude.

I really want to hear from all the replacements.

Fresh views and discussions will help I think, and we have plenty of time.

@MOD: I will be out of town and V/LA from Friday to Sunday next weekend (April 15th-17th).

But yes,

re-reading everything while skipping over Jake's stuff is my plan of action too

.

Hrm, let me rephrase. I dislike meta reading THE MOD in games like this. But I'm not in disagreement with you. If it was scum/scum, they wouldn't have replaced out I don't think. But I do think that it was NAI from the mod, because it was just behavior to far.

Basically, back to re-reading for me.

VOTE: Clumsy -

Back at L-1

[shaddowez]

Titus or Nos-- kill clumsy please.

Why those two specifically?

[shaddowez]

I prefer the recap like 1053 if you're going to continue. It actually gives us your thoughts instead of having to read walls and responses.

[shaddowez]

@Shadow I'll do that too, but the page by page is helping me make those. I don't see the point of me doing that and not posting them though. You don't have to read them, I'll still do that recaps.

That's fair.

[shaddowez]

V/LA until Monday

[shaddowez]

UNVOTE:

Clumsy's reaction to L-1 seemed very town motivated. There's no reason for scum to attempt to give more information before they're lynched like that. That being said, he could just be trying to stall and clutter the thread so I'll wait to see what else he offers when he's back.

Huntress and Titus are both on my radar for their random "Here I am with some useless posts and no reasoning"

I have to re-read to see what I think about the current Maxous wagon. I don't remember exactly what right now, but something pinged me when I was going through it I didn't like.

[shaddowez]

Hey everyone - unfortunately life got the better of me, and I need to replace out. I'm sorry for this.

@Mod

- Please replace me