Mini 1781: Plotinus Mafia: Game Over

[Gorkington]

at least look at ari's case on iece instead of just saying "theres nothing there" because thats annoying.

[androgybee]

List of Problems with Andro:

1) Claim -- I don't buy it. Either 1) You are fakeclaiming entirely or 2) You fakeclaimed your target. If it were 3) You are a tracker and you did target Ranger, then that makes you auto-town, but you have no way to prove that.

Can't respond to this unfortunately it comes down to you believing us or not.

2) Heavy use of AtE -- While AtE isn't AI always, the excessive use of it just didn't read as town AtE to me. Some of it did, but most of it didnt.

I wasn't AtE'ing for the sake of AtE, I was angry that I had just been woken up in the middle of the night to see I'm being wagoned and it was my first instinct.

3) Inconsistent Reads -- At one point, you put down current thoughts on players. 2 posts later, you put down a readlist that is rather inconsistent with what you said in the previous post. Hard to believe that was authentic (though it is possible it is an honest mistake)

I pointed out you did the exact same thing and you hand waved it, so it's odd you're only willing to call it an "honest mistake" at best.

4) Heavy defending; no scumhunting. Though, it looks like the slot is trying now

I've already explained; I was on the defensive because that's all I could do in the moment when I thought I was about to get lynched. Since I had some time, I took a step back and actually analyzed the game. Defensiveness is only scummy if it's the entirety of someone's play.

5) I feel most confident in this lynch right now. I'm not quite so much "on the fence" as I have been with previous wagons. I feel there is a good chance of scum and a decent case to be made.

And yet, you've pointed out all of our posts individually are town-indicative. I feel like you just really want to have a lynch for the sake of having a lynch. Not that I'm saying it's scummy of you, I just think you're being extremely lazy about this and it's shitty of you to do so.

6) RC backs this wagon. I heavily townread RC right now.

RC is wrong.

7) Regardless of alignment, this is a good info lynch imo. The only other good info lynch is Titus.

Except you'll be losing a town tracker.

[androgybee]

uhg. i fucked up. whatever you get the point.

[Titus]

like, youre calling andro scum, but also simultaneously justifying their lynch because of info.
like.
i dont care about info.
info comes from any lynch.
moreso, info comes from pushing lynches.
an iece push with any significant backbone will give information.
there are people resistant to the wagon.
slow to jump on.
people ignoring it.

plenty of information.
super questionable that youre ignoring it just because of an apparent lack of information, especially since ari posted a case.

Good, my town feels are coming back.

[Gorkington]

zzzzz.
i dont like that somehow scum is inevitably buddying me at this point.

[Titus]

I looked into the Ice iso myself. I already listed my problems with it and why I dont think its one of the better lynches right now.

Pedit: Cuz Ice has very little content and hasnt interacted a lot.

This standard gets the current site meta that is shit.

Town who contribute and try to scumhunt get lynched if they have unpopular opinions and then get discarded because they were scummy to try.

Scum who lurk don't provide info are terrible information lynches and thus get away.

[androgybee]

I'm just going to drop right here that I've got more to say on this but I want to save it for post game because I hate going into this certain subject while the game is on-going and people try to read into it like it's an alignment tell. Reminder me after the game that I had something important after the game to say right here. Right at this point.

~Nahdia

[Ether]

Day 2, Votecount 28

---

4 androgybee (RadiantCowbells, Ircher, Titus, Iecerint)
4 Iecerint (Aristophanes, Not_Mafia, androgybee, Roshar)

3 Unvote (Fire Assassin, Gorkington, Maruchan)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
The deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-02 18:00:00), or on Monday, May 2nd at 6:00 pm EDT.

---

[Titus]

titus hasnt really interacted all that much either.
should we lynch me because ive interacted with a lot of people?

Thats not the argument; you're asking about info lynches.

Info Lynches are best on those who interact the most imo.

Maybe I'm being biased here, I might reconsider.

No that's EXACTLY the argument you're making.

You were all Nahdia is town but now you're saying she's scum and an informational lynch.

Yet, you act as if you know a lot about wagon analysis. Wagon analysis and thus information is about the choices people make when confronted with options, NOT lynching people for having opinions.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ircher

I want this.

[Ircher]

Iec Iso, abridged.

Spoiler: Some posts about Gork

I wonder which of Radja and Titus is responsible for the BG reference. ^^

Both my hydras share interests

P.s. I am drunk...

Someone show me a good case

I think Gorkinger is maybe scum among the active players.

It's a mystery among the others.

I am worried about both of these players right now, and Maruchan is still having me cautious but I don't think my read on them is as strong on them as before.

Dear lord. Lord-Gorkington is leading the wagon on them, and I *still* want to join it.

1. I really dislike his approach to Gorki here. He seems to be passively discrediting him, but he hasn't laid down a case at all and seems to just want this slot to be untrusted. This was the first thing that set me off about Iec

.

im a prat.
it doesnt mean that my reads are off the mark though.
q.q

Actually I like your reads a lot, I just think you might be scum because you spent some time casting dispersions on ppl who're probably town (e.g., Ircher shortly after replacing Davsto). It read like you were trying to reduce an [accurate] group town read secondary to the replacement, but I think my attitude toward him was like "whatever we don't have to mess with this puzzle as much now."

I mean tbh I don't want to lynch you at all tho because at least you're postin and it's not bullshit.

2. This is also just bad.
"Hey, you're scum because of your pushes even though I agree with your reads. I really don't feel like trying to push you though, because you're active, so I'm gonna back down here."

So, Iec, who are the scum?

FireAssassin or Gorkilord, likely not both.

I think that's the only scum among the active players. I went back and forth on NotMafia as I read, pretty sure I ended up on town because of a particular post that I can't recall IIRC. That's the only other active player I significantly entertained whom I didn't mention I think.

3. Again with the Gork and FA pushes he hasn't followed through on. Why can you not commit, Iec?? If you have these two as scum, then make a vote! If you aren't even going to push a case on them, then why are you trying to get others to??

Why the fuck do people keep mentioning Smudger?

I kept being like "I need to go back and see why everyone is obsessed with them because I didn't even notice his posts."

HE HAS TWO POSTS. TWO SENTENCES.

4. Weird, over the top overdefensiveness towards Smudger. Noted.

And ya, FA is pretty vapid but is kinda dishonest about it.
da
I don't want to end the day yet tho and I'm concerned that my vote + rhetoric will do that.

Unvote; Vote: ActionDan

Therefore, I will vote for ActionDaniel.

5. This post is also shit. We ended the day early anyway, and he voted for absolutely no reason when he actually had a reason to believe FA was scum. Like, WTF is this!?

Where is Smudger? He's disappeared.

VOTE: Icerint

He never DISAPPEARED.

He was just NEVER IN THE GAME.

Despite being the TALK OF THE TOWN.

But I have no idea what to make of it.

6. I almost think this is scum showing annoyance at an inactive buddy.

I'm halfway through and glazing over :S
Gonna power through!

Hey IEC, why no comments for me?

Uh. Does this mean for Titus? Maybe cuz Radja is signing his?

You guys are kinda a non-entity for me so far other than that I noticed some posts that Radja signed. Probably leaning scum for your slot tbh but Radja is my secret MS crush, so I'm trying my best to overlook it.

7. This is literally a post for the sake of posting.
The read ends up at null, but it sure looks like he's being productive!

I support order over chaos this month, so I am opposed to quicklynches.

8. Yet is on wagon at L-1 and not unvoting.

I skipped mentioning a few posts because it's a lot. Scum slot though.

VOTE: Iec

1) I feel the problem Ice had with Gork was Ice was scumreading Gork, but as time went by, he started having doubts and also like the Fire wagon for his own reasons
2) I'll think on that point.
3) That is an issue though not sure if it is just lazy/confused town or scum pushing ML's.
4) I noted this in my review too. Imo, it is the worst thing in the entire ISO.
5) That point is debatable. I didn't get that vibe from it, but it depends on perspective.
6) This point is invalid by association: Ranger was NK'd and was in Smudger's slot, so Ranger obviously couldn't be Ice's buddy. It does reinforce the feeling gained from point 4 though and could be read as White-Knighting, but that isn't neccessarily AI.
7) Isn't that... Like the entire ISO? This is something that should be metadived tbh.
8) Good point; I didnt read the post's context.

[Ircher]

OMGUS:
VOTE: Titus

No, seriously, that jump is bad. This is why I probably just shouldn't post.

VOTE: Andro
Like this lynch better still.

[Titus]

Really, Ircher, just what information would we get from a Nahdia lynch that we wouldn't get from an Iec lynch? Both have massive wagons. Both have about half the game split and lynching Iec would possibly mean saving a town tracker.

[Ircher]

I looked into the Ice iso myself. I already listed my problems with it and why I dont think its one of the better lynches right now.

Pedit: Cuz Ice has very little content and hasnt interacted a lot.

This standard gets the current site meta that is shit.

Town who contribute and try to scumhunt get lynched if they have unpopular opinions and then get discarded because they were scummy to try.

Scum who lurk don't provide info are terrible information lynches and thus get away.

You know, that's exactly why lurkers are a pain-in-a-neck.

Previous Games: Point out people who are lurking and going after the easy mislynches. Get scumread for going after "Low Hanging Fruit"
This Game: Try to get scumreads not based on activity.... Not working too well and still getting scumread either for a lack of an opinion or a "contradictory" opinion.

This is my town game, and this is normal from me. Stop treating everything I say as scum.

Scummy != Scum.

[Ircher]

Really, Ircher, just what information would we get from a Nahdia lynch that we wouldn't get from an Iec lynch? Both have massive wagons. Both have about half the game split and lynching Iec would possibly mean saving a town tracker.

Alright. I give. I'm wrong on the info lynch asopect.

But my other points still stand.

[Gorkington]

i feel like this game is devolving into semantics and thats boring af.

[Ircher]

Semantics discussions suck!

[Titus]

I looked into the Ice iso myself. I already listed my problems with it and why I dont think its one of the better lynches right now.

Pedit: Cuz Ice has very little content and hasnt interacted a lot.

This standard gets the current site meta that is shit.

Town who contribute and try to scumhunt get lynched if they have unpopular opinions and then get discarded because they were scummy to try.

Scum who lurk don't provide info are terrible information lynches and thus get away.

You know, that's exactly why lurkers are a pain-in-a-neck.

Previous Games: Point out people who are lurking and going after the easy mislynches. Get scumread for going after "Low Hanging Fruit"
This Game: Try to get scumreads not based on activity.... Not working too well and still getting scumread either for a lack of an opinion or a "contradictory" opinion.

This is my town game, and this is normal from me. Stop treating everything I say as scum.

Scummy != Scum.

Cry me a river. You're not getting pushed for being contradictory. I know what that is like. That's when you state someone is town and then get scumread because no one could be that smart.

You're getting scumread because your positions make no sense and now you're trying to paint yourself as a victim by co-opting my word choice.

The Nahdia is an info lynch comment is terrible and looks like you trying to CONFORM to the majority opinion rather than sticking to your guns about what you believe.

And as always, if it's scummy objectively (which is what you're admitting you are), you lynch.

[Ircher]

Scummy != Scum.

Town do scummy stuff too; in fact, more oft, as scum try to be more catious.

[Ircher]

Anyway, you cant lynch me.

[androgybee]

Scummy != Scum.

Town do scummy stuff too; in fact, more oft, as scum try to be more catious.

Head your own advice, and re-read my ISO.

~Nahdia

[Gorkington]

i feel like its equally likely that ircher has just been punished with scumreads in previous games for calling lurkers scummy and is compensating for that now.
hes doing it very mechanically.
but that doesnt make me confident at all that hes scum.

[androgybee]

Scummy != Scum.

Town do scummy stuff too; in fact, more oft, as scum try to be more catious.

Heed

your own advice, and re-read my ISO.

~Nahdia

EBWOP sigh spelling is freaking HARD

Specifically I'm referring to the "inconsistent reads" thing from beeboy you're trying to push my slot on. If scum is generally more cautious, doesn't that mean what beeboy did is actually more likely to come from town?

~Nahdia

[Ircher]

As to conforming: Well, to an extent, I am. Cuz if I dont, no one will listen. Period. (Or I get scumread.) The site meta here really sucks.

[androgybee]

I'm pretty sure I made this exact point about beeboy's inconsistency, I guess you must have missed that