Mini 1762: Game Over


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Post Post #1975 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:53 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

Hammering in ~6 hours
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Post Post #1976 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:29 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Back for V/LA –

In post 1958, Raskolnikov wrote:I can see actually see it being syn/implosion now

VOTE: implosion

You guys refused to wagon syn but can we at least get this going? Actually have some time that we can use if we aren't super apathetic and lazy


For the record this is stupid. Not the linking of pairs mind you – the concept we would lynch into Implosion / GiF who are Gunsmith clears before we get confirmation (via second scum non-Doctor flip) that one could be a false clear.

In post 1925, Dwlee99 wrote:Why did my slot vig dierfire wtf


Truth – because some newbie assumed that Radiant had a great idea that BBT was scum. In other words for terrible, terrible reasons.

In post 1930, Dwlee99 wrote:I havent read the game but I dont want to lynch either of you today how long do I have to find scum and convince people?


:facepalm:

In post 1942, Dwlee99 wrote:Does godfather investigate inno to gunsmith?


Your posting seems confused – no Godfathers do not. Only Mafia Doctors and Traitors.

In post 1967, Dwlee99 wrote:how did they treat it?
cite examples?


Don’t ask for others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself. Frankly you play having replaced into a Confirmed Town slot is abysmal.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"

Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Post Post #1977 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:57 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

In post 1976, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Back for V/LA –



In post 1930, Dwlee99 wrote:I havent read the game but I dont want to lynch either of you today how long do I have to find scum and convince people?


:facepalm:

lolk

In post 1942, Dwlee99 wrote:Does godfather investigate inno to gunsmith?


Your posting seems confused – no Godfathers do not. Only Mafia Doctors and Traitors.

k cool
In post 1967, Dwlee99 wrote:how did they treat it?
cite examples?


Don’t ask for others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself. Frankly you play having replaced into a Confirmed Town slot is abysmal.

LOL

I totally apologize for not reading the 75 page game. :roll:
I feel like I get this argument way too much. It's not me saying "I'm not going to do anything screw you guys" it is me asking for clarification. If someone is going to come to me and say "This guy treated a wagon weird" I should be allowed to ask them how they treated the wagon weird without getting shitty responses like this.
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Post Post #1978 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:06 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

beeboy (4):
NinoMasak
i, kirroha, implosion,
I Am Innocent
, Raskolnikov, Rubixxx (lynched)
Ink (3): Syndesis(L-5)
RadiantCowbells
(1): ink (L-5)
Syndesis (1):
Golden Robster
(L-5)
Implosion (1)
: RadiantCowbells
(L-5)
Not Voting (2):
beeboy


who are ink / rubixx??

I am trying to analyze this
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Post Post #1979 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:07 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1977, Dwlee99 wrote:I totally apologize for not reading the 75 page game.


Then don't replace in. That's a pretty simple solution. Effort should be part of every commitment to Mafia games and if you don't want to put in the effort you are only hurting you and your teams' chances.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"

Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Post Post #1980 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:23 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

not reading doesn't mean I'm not putting in effort? I'm wasting my time reading. I don't read well through facts, I read well through interactions w/ other players. So just shut the fuck up and stop trying to discredit me.
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Post Post #1981 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:56 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

In post 1976, MagnaofIllusion wrote:For the record this is stupid. Not the linking of pairs mind you – the concept we would lynch into Implosion / GiF who are Gunsmith clears before we get confirmation (via second scum non-Doctor flip) that one could be a false clear.

You're saying it's stupid to lynch in gunsmith clears essentially because its lower percentage, but realistically if it is syn/imp and people refuse to do syn there wouldn't actually be a better move.
Although I was also wondering if anyone would express interest just to see associations with imp and sort-of kirroha (cw-esque).

@Dwlee ink is GiF and rubixxx is MoI
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Post Post #1982 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:01 am

Post by Metrion »

Vote Count 4.4

Raskolnikov
(1)
: Syndesis
(L-3)

Kirroha
(3)
: MagnaofIllusion, GuyInFreezer, implosion
(L-1)

Implosion
(1)
: Raskolvnikov
(L-3)

MagnaofIllusion
(1)
: Dwlee99
(L-3)

Not Voting
(1):
Kirroha.
With 7 players alive, majority is 4 today.


(expired on 2016-04-25 23:00:00) remains in Day Four.
Last edited by Metrion on Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1983 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:02 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1981, Raskolnikov wrote:You're saying it's stupid to lynch in gunsmith clears essentially because its lower percentage, but realistically if it is syn/imp and people refuse to do syn there wouldn't actually be a better move.
Although I was also wondering if anyone would express interest just to see associations with imp and sort-of kirroha (cw-esque).


Well it just is. You may disagree but Implosion / GiF absolutely have to be left for last. A scum lynch that flips Mafia Doctor more or less seals the game for Town via PoE. So I understand you having your personal feelings on Syn and Implosion but I have yet to see anything more substantial from you on Syn as scum other than

1. Scum were bussing Day 3 (which I disagree with on a fundamental level but even if we consider it a push you need more evidence).
2. Meta off some game which isn't compelling at all.

What interactions with Robster's slot do you see as coming from scum-Synd? And vise-versa? Link / quote me some posts to help me understand if you seriously think Synd is scum.
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Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Post Post #1984 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:29 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

dont hammer yet
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Post Post #1985 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:29 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

Entrance is okay, asks questions. I actually liked her vote on me because I thought she'd want to engage me after our last game and use the experience to read me but she didn't really do that or follow it up. Went from voting me to voting who I was voting after I said I townread her which was weird but not terrible.

puts TG to l-2 after someone unvoted (slot was getting replaced + deadline wasn't close)
unvotes when it's put to L-1 to vote the person who did the l-1'ing (ink/gif)
votes kill
When GR replaces TG syn doesn't say a single thing to/about GR until day 2 though he was the leading wagon
(still day 1) votes IAI.
Not much else until deadline passes, passed the deadline does tj vote.

Day 1 review: low content earlyday, when GR's slot gets wagoned the first time and replaced she votes him after someone unvotes but jumps off to try to wagon 3 different people. Isn't explicitly townreading the slot, not interacting with it at all, and pushes the other wagons but doesn't tell people not to vote this one.
One of the three votes (TJ) she expressed interest in voting TJ before but KTS and IAI came out of nowhere (KTS was a reaction test if you believe ). I don't get the IAI one that close to deadline considering TJ had votes on him; she went into deadline not going back to TJ until the deadline was already passed; the thread was locked late since mod was afk. If I was in her pos I wouldn't have stopped voting TJ (her #1 scumread that day) when he was a potential lynch for deadline, and I would either be for or against the TG/GR lynch. If against it I'd tell people why he's town and try to redirect, if for it I'd obviously vote and stay and try to push it. If indifferent/null you should be voting it at that point just because deadline was hours away and you want to avoid nolynch as town.

Also looking at this I notice ink putting TG to L-1 which I really like for the slot (GiF).

Day 2
rule of three suggests there's a scum in here esp in the latter two, and I think it's syn.
GR votes syn but it's just the first vote; gr syn are fine with beeboy lynch but not on it, which is conspicuous for syn because she was really scumreading that slot earlier.
also GR actually casts shade on ink again here by questioning townreads on him.

Day 3
already talked about this. Syn does vote GR though GR goes off of syn to 'compromise' with a lynch on me.
Syn doesn't really push it and GR pushes it while voting me. As syn/gr get more scumread and it looks like one of the two will be lynched anyways they actually interact and start casing each other.
I think at that point it's day 3 and they're both scumread and thinking one will be lynched anyways they bus like this so whichever one survives looks good. I also respect RC's opinion on this when he says he saw it as a bussing interaction (considering he lynched GR). I think it's also a characteristic of bussing to act really convinced in it more-so than town usually is, and particularly for syndesis who's been wishy-washy af for everthing else this game I don't really buy it.

In general aside from the posts d3 on GR which are different from all her others, it's low content and there's nothing that I can actually look at and say that's a reasoned, nuanced town perspective. Everyone else at least has their moments but apart from the GR syn thing which I think is bussing and constructed I don't see her having done scumhunting. Even if you don't see it as a bus can you give me a reason you're townreading her?
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Post Post #1986 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:30 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

I've already said most of this though.
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Post Post #1987 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:32 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

Scum will have to kill Dwlee so you can actually answer these tomorrow MoI, although the benefit of talking now is that dwlee could weigh in for/against.
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Post Post #1988 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:35 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

In post 1978, Dwlee99 wrote:
beeboy
(4):
NinoMasak
i, kirroha,
implosion
,
I Am Innocent
, Raskolnikov, Rubixxx (lynched)
Ink
(3): Syndesis(L-5)
RadiantCowbells
(1):
ink
(L-5)
Syndesis (1):
Golden Robster
(L-5)
Implosion
(1)
: RadiantCowbells
(L-5)
Not Voting (2):
beeboy


who are ink / rubixx??

I am trying to analyze this

updated colors a bit more, guy and implosion are almost definitely town.
Raskol is a high town read but I think people wouldnt like me if I put him town for.vca
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Post Post #1989 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:36 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

In post 1986, Raskolnikov wrote:I've already said most of this though.

On the bright side I feel better about GiF after doing that.
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Post Post #1990 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:37 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

Ok I want to lynch kirro today I think
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Post Post #1991 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:41 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

Dwlee thoughts on what I said about syn?

Also if you can leave parting notes:
Who do you think is scum if kirroha flips town?
Who do you think is scum if kirroha flips scum?

I'll hammer after you answer or you can do it in your answering posts
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Post Post #1992 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:52 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Rask - where was all day? I'll do my best to review it ASAP and get thoughts into the thread before it is locked if possible.
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Post Post #1993 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:57 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

ISO me and tell me I haven't been casing and pushing syndesis all of today.
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Post Post #1994 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:04 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

I generally hate making big cases because it's a ton of work and I never convince people with them, except when I end up completely wrong on them anyways. None of you were in open 627 or mini 1766 :/
One day I wanna be an AtE god that reads everyone on gut and doesn't use standard logic or cases to win the game.
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Post Post #1995 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:08 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

^not entirely serious
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Post Post #1996 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:20 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Reading through Synd and Golden's ISO side by side now -

Rask I'd like you to look at in context of Golden's ISO. It sticks out for me that he was basically FOSing four players (two dead Town, yourself and Synd) yet he had reason to FOS Kirroha given . Do you think Golden would be more likely to soft-bus a partner or completely ignore them despite showing some suspicion earlier?
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Post Post #1997 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:30 am

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I think that if you're scum you almost have to put a scumpartner in there among the four.
If I were you and townreading syn I would actually consider it being me rather than all four being town, although that's just for the post in isolation and not regarding anything else.

I think it's a huge scum association tell to soft-bus and be "suspicious" of a partner while not actually trying for their lynch (the best association being when/if they then leave that wagon for no good reason when it gets close to lynch), and that scum generally want their partners in a null or scum sort of area because they feel like it leaves a bad tell to have them townread but not the scummiest day 1/2 because that would force you to push and possibly lynch them.
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Post Post #1998 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:38 am

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Notice how of those 4 names he voted 3 of them up until that point, all syn was least likely to be lynched then as well.

As far as associations go having a vote on someone as your only vote (gr's d2 syn vote) means diddly especially when there's another wagon that's a ml going on that everyone's okay with and will almost definitely go through. It would be different if he tried to get people from beeboy onto syn but as is there's no real bussing or substantial pushing from the two on each other until day 3.
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Post Post #1999 (ISO) » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:40 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

Hammering in (expired on 2016-04-25 18:00:00)
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