Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[Davsto]

[Davsto]

do people actually go out of their way to try to win awards on this site

I'd say some people would, from time to time, go out of their way to get a Kodak moment.

But not the others. When I specifically aim to play well as town or scum, my thought is always "I'm gonna play well to win this!" If I put a lot of effort into designing and modding a game, my thought is "I want to make this awesome game which people will enjoy!"

I never do it with the thought "wow, maybe if I do this well enough i'll get a scummy" and, in my opinion, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who does.

[Davsto]

On a different note, about how long into the year do the scummies ceremonies usually take place?

[Davsto]

Isn't the argument for the removal that it only awards one aspect of play which can't be objectively judged properly which is better?
If so then I disagree with that.

To be a good team as either alignment (including scum) you need a lot more than just "teamwork". If the players in a faction all work together well and everything is all rainbows and bunnies that doesn't mean they will be successful at anything. Just like a football team can work well together, that isn't all that's needed; other qualities are also needed.
For instance with a scum team manipulative skills, seeming convincing , etc. are all things a good scum team need. If they have none of these but only "good teamwork" they will fail miserably at a a game.

Now scum teams can already be nominated as a whole but splitting that reward up again really doesn't harm anyone. Sometimes you have a group of people who shine, other scenarios involve one member carrying a whole team. These seperate situations work best with seperate rewards.

Now for town. Town if they don't know how to push reads, form them in the first place and all that stuff will fail miserably just like scum will if they only have "teamwork". Town cohesion isn't the only thing a good town displays; they need all the other aspects a good individual town player needs to have.

Those rewards weren't just awarding one aspect of play. Instead they were awarding all of them, except the focus is on the whole faction instead of the individual.

And in those scenarios one or two carry the whole faction? Well, just rank them below other games where there were significantly less useless players.

Typed this up on my phone so if formatting is awful and what not I apologize.

They're not saying that teamwork is the only thing necessary

but

If the town doesn't work together, one can't really argue that they should get a team award

Thus, the category is 90% judging on whether they worked together or not.

[Davsto]

If they worked together wonderfully but failed at finding scum they also won't win. It's just one of the many aspects that needs to be taken into consideration. Teamwork shouldn't be the main aspect.

But, by pure nature of being a town

team

award, teamwork becomes the main aspect. Simple as that.

That's like saying that manipulating town shouldn't be the main aspect of the Don Corleone award.

[Davsto]

Judging teams doesn't mean you should tunnel vision onto teamwork as that isn't the main thing. You look at their achievements, how they got there, how much the mafia put up a fight and how well the town saw through their lies. Basically everything that's judged for the individual town award.

Towns consist of, in a Mini, about 10 players. Say 5 townies do this, while the other 5 don't. Is this town worthy of the award? I mean, they did all of the other things, but they didn't really work together and half of them just sat around doing nothing.

There is a problem with judging a team award for the town which is, by design, detached. It's just not going to work properly.

Keep in mind, the judging committee knows a lot more about you than how games are judged for the Scummies too. You're looking upon them from the outside and going "yeh but if you do it like this it should work, right?" Those guys have been in there and done it and judged the award previously and have now decided, with their experience, that this award shouldn't stay.

[Davsto]

Only one member of the nominee's faction survived for any significant portion of the game

I know teamwork is an important part etc

But I feel that, when rewarding a single player, if say all of their scum teammates die within the first few days and then they make it through a load of days singlehandedly, there should be some bonus points for that, because that can be really tough, and I don't see it being fully fair to reward a single player in part on the strength of their teammates.

[Davsto]

In fact, I'll be honest, I disagree with the majority of these.

Nominee's faction achieved their win condition despite facing highly competent opponents

I'm not sure how fair it is to judge someone's play as scum based on the town they faced up against, because that's just dumb luck. If someone plays amazingly but they happen to only be against okay players, is it really fair to dock points?

Nominee received little to no sustained suspicion throughout the game

While I agree that "not getting any suspicion" is good for scum, "having lots of suspicion but still avoiding being lynched" is something I'd consider to be something worth rewarding as it requires a different, strong amount of skill.

Nominee's success was impressively independent of the use of power roles

This almost feels like punishing someone for using their power role greatly. Sure, day play is skilful, but the way it's worded like this does not sound good. Skilled use of power roles is a very important part of the game, and a rule like this sounds like it will basically instantly reduce the chances of you winning an award if the game you played in was role madness. If you mean "they would have been lynched but someone got an incorrect innocent result on them because godfather", fine. If you mean "the use of power roles was very good and played a big part in their victory as well as their very good day play", I strongly disagree with that being considered worse in any way.

The nominee's entire faction survived until late in the game

See above.

The nominee's entire faction demonstrated an impressive level of teamwork

Mostly no objections here, although I feel this gives a slight disadvantage of winning if the game only had nighttalk and not daytalk, a factor which vastly affects teamwork.

and no replacements had to be made

... okay this is just ridiculous. Again, I don't feel a single nominee should be judged based on their teammates, but in terms of replacing out? Are you kidding me? Like, wow. You may end up punishing a player because one of their teammates is a lurked or a player who bends a rule too far and gets forced replaced - a whole number of factors contribute to replacements, and I guarantee they are out of a team member's control!

[Davsto]

I hate to be such a critic, but you seem to be vastly rewarding some aspects of scum play over others.

[Davsto]

Thanks for the response! I agree with all your points there, thanks

Well, except one

no it doesn't

Daytalk pretty objectively positively affects teamwork when used well. Communicating during the day, organising bussing timing or quickhammers, the list goes on. The newbie scum winrate skyrocketed when daytalk was introduced, and while it does affect newbies more than experienced players, I think denying that daytalk massively improves scum teamwork is being fairly ignorant of site meta.

[Davsto]

I disagree with the Don Corleone being a body of work

Because it is considerably harder to be consistently good as scum

And you may say "that's the point" but I mean "there will literally only be around four nominees to choose from each year and there's a decent chance it'll be the same ones each year".

[Davsto]

But that seems incredibly restrictive and elitist. If someone has an incredibly good scumgame, even an uncharacteristically good one, they should be awarded for it, not told "well you did great but you haven't done that well in other scum games so the award is going to go to the same person it did last year."

[Davsto]

Don't we already have an award for amazing and potentially unlikely moments? Like, as well as the whole "funny posts 'n' shit" that falls under Kodak Moment, something spectacular like the entire town working together to find the scumteam perfectly with every member working flawlessly sounds like a "Kodak Moment" to me.