Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[karnos]

Hey guys, this is my 3rd game, first one that isn't a newbie game. Nice to see some familiar faces: killthestory, ranger, BTD6.

Last time I started things of with a vote for #1 on the user list, but I don't want to push killthestory too much given he already has 2 friends, so I'll go with the next one in line.

VOTE: Creature

A werewolf is a creature, is creature a werewolf?

[karnos]

Ah OK that makes sense. I can see why the reads on KTS and Karnos.

I'll happily change my vote to KTS if that helps. I just don't want to be the jerk that pushes a lynch onto a nice townie on day 1, and I am not yet confident that KTS is scum.

[karnos]

Actually...

VOTE: DrDolittle

I don't like the hiding... it makes me think you have something to hide.

[karnos]

Top class play coming from kts, not calling L-1 on page 2. Confident in the vote now.
Also kts, I was the first person to vote you. I'm not jumping on the wagon, I'm returning to it.

Wasn't it though? I hate to defend him, but you unvoted yourself, leaving 3 votes. BTD voted you, 4, then KTS voted, 5. Puts you at L-2. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have gone over the thread twice and I don't see it adding up to you being at L-1 with KTS's vote.

Spreading misinformation looks a bit scummy, but I think it could be an honest accident.

[karnos]

so basically random wants to policy me because im annoying and pretentious? did you forget how great my reads were?

also, Karnos, Random wasn't spreading false information, someone unvoted before they said that and claimed they didn't like the L-1.

If that person unvoted from L-1, you would be at L-2. You are not, because you never were at L-1. Random was voting for himself, so when he changed votes to you, he removed a lynch vote from himself. Your vote put him at L-2, and then the person said he didn't like random at L-1 and switched, putting him at L-3.

That said this whole subthread is a waste of time because I don't really think it was intentional, however I feel the need to correct you since you are now implying that I am spreading misinformation when I was not.

[karnos]

Ah OK that makes sense. I can see why the reads on KTS and Karnos.

I'll happily change my vote to KTS if that helps. I just don't want to be the jerk that pushes a lynch onto a nice townie on day 1, and I am not yet confident that KTS is scum.

Do you believe anyone on the Kts-wagon legit scumreads him?

.

KTS is one of the players I have seen before. If he wasn't, I would absolutely be scum reading him, but I know from the prior game that his town play just likes a bit scummy. That doesn't actually rule out him being scum, though, and right now I have no other real leads. I would probably be voting him if he wasn't already shouldering several votes.

[karnos]

Kts has 2 votes, I'd understand being careful for a derphammer but the wagon isn't even close to hammer. Seems like you're being overly careful. What exactly is the 'lead' you have on Kts? What do you think is scummy about his play so far that warrants a maybe-vote?

Mostly his early posts, for example #21 doesn't really serve much benefit, it just makes people less likely to post. Don't get me wrong, it's not a strong scum read of any sort, it's just the most I have seen so far this game. I personally think that reads on day 1 are unlikely to be accurate except through dumb luck anyway.

I guess it doesn't hurt to back up my thinking with an actual vote.
UNVOTE: dr dolittle
VOTE: Killthestory

[karnos]

I see some serious discussion went down.

Reading back, I wasn't really feeling the Kasumeat wagon until he decided to vote himself. I see no good reasons for town to self vote, it's either a scum ploy or a weak town player, neither one is useful to keep around. Still, it's yet early in the day, no reason to rush to hammer.

Kasumeat: if you are town, please unvote. Give your top reads. If you are scum, carry on get lynched.

Ozy: just to respond, even though you have already switched votes: my "careful" posting style is just how I post. Read through the start of last game if you care enough, I was accused of similiar right from the start.

[karnos]

Kts has 2 votes, I'd understand being careful for a derphammer but the wagon isn't even close to hammer. Seems like you're being overly careful. What exactly is the 'lead' you have on Kts? What do you think is scummy about his play so far that warrants a maybe-vote?

Mostly his early posts, for example #21 doesn't really serve much benefit, it just makes people less likely to post. Don't get me wrong, it's not a strong scum read of any sort, it's just the most I have seen so far this game. I personally think that reads on day 1 are unlikely to be accurate except through dumb luck anyway.

I guess it doesn't hurt to back up my thinking with an actual vote.
UNVOTE: dr dolittle
VOTE: Killthestory

How does the post you linked make people less likely to post?

Can you answer this, Karnos?

.

Ozy: just to respond, even though you have already switched votes: my "careful" posting style is just how I post. Read through the start of last game if you care enough, I was accused of similiar right from the start.

I will, if I have the time. What do you think about Ranger?

1: didn't it? He posted, then he jumped on the next person to post, and then there was a little back-and-forth directly talking about how killthestory made the board silent, then nothing until the next morning.

2: not much. Ranger, BTD, killthesttory are all the players I played with previously. While I had a slight scum leaning on killthestory, I didn't have much feeling one way or the other for Ranger - or BTD for that matter. However, I do consider posts like #152 to be scummy, yet in my fist game it was been a tactic most often used by town, so I am not considering it to be a strong negative tell. I will say that whenever someone just flat out tells me to vote someone without clear reasoning, I take it with a grain of salt.

[karnos]

This game messes with my usual strategic thinking, because of the odd format. The largest "buddy" groups are actually town masons, and a heavy push to lynch a verified scum doesn't actually indicate the pusher is town, as they could just be the other scum faction. This might not be a terribly useful post, but these facts are constantly on my mind and I guess I want to remind everyone else that tells from a normal 1-scum faction game don't fully apply to this game.

[karnos]

Interesting claim from KTS. Hopefully those who can confirm/deny note it and take appropriate action without revealing themselves.

[karnos]

UNVOTE: Killthestory

I guess, for now.

[karnos]

It's a mason claim. In this setup, it's confirmed by nobody counter-claiming.

Yeah, I get that. But would the counter claim even make sense? I mean, if you are a mason, you KNOW KTS is scum, no need to come out and counter claim and reveal your role, just push for the lynch and keep your identity secret.

[karnos]

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

[karnos]

I'm sorry you think it's a stupid vote. I don't understand how kop's posts are town indicative, and I don't like ranger's vouch for kop. KTS, even if you are town you still make errors. I can't very well pressure kop with 0 votes currently, so I am putting the pressure where it might make a difference.

[karnos]

And the obvious implication some seem to be making that kop, KTS, and ranger are all masons is obviously absurd, I don't buy it.

[karnos]

This game just tuned up a notch, Is this going to be massclaim day 1? (It's a rhetorical question, don't claim based on my post please)

I'll trust KTS is being honest, since if you aren't it would be a quick end when the real masons counter claim you.

UNVOTE: ranger
VOTE: kop

I just want some discussion, I am not trying to lynch kop just yet, I am just calling BS on the whole "hiding is normal and he is town" thing. There is no reason for town to hide.

[karnos]

kop is also mason, please unvote

Really?

kop isnt a mason but me and ranger r

Really?

Fine.

UNVOTE: kop

VOTE: Killthestory

You story just doesn't make sense anymore. I think you are scum. If your claims are true, I'm sure ranger and kop will rush to your support and lynch me, but at this point I'll take that risk.

[karnos]

we win if you sheep me and ranger so theres no need to waste time discussing about ourselves

Translation: I don't want to risk the real masons outing me as a fraud.

Please hold off on hammering anyone for a few days. If this is a legit claim, there won't be a counterclaim, but after contradicting himself I don't believe it at all anymore.

[karnos]

So, should everybody check in and say they don't counterclaim?

That is the same as handing the scum a list of masons to kill, if every VT & scum check in with a "no counterclaim".

Only one mason needs to counter claim. Alternatively, kop or ranger could claim non-mason, though it wouldn't shock me if one of them (ranger probably) is actually a scum partner willing to go along with the charade.

[karnos]

We still have 10 days and 15 hours. No need to rush anything.

[karnos]

KTS already DID hand them that list, real or not.

And I think you're suggesting that a scumbuddy Ranger might claim Mason too, which would also be incredibly stupid because then a single counterclaim by the real Masons would kill both scum.

Fair enough, I agree that ranger wouldn't be that foolish even if she is the scum partner.

And at this point I am betting the list is fake. We'll see. Probably get myself lynched if I am wrong, but I've seen multiple posts from KTS supporting my theory and his last slip was enough to push things over the edge IMO.

[karnos]

As for the whole mason claim: the correct play here is for me to neither verify nor contradict Killthestory's claim, for obvious reasons.

Obvious reason being, you are his scum partner?

I think we should all be in agreement that if KTS flips as anything but a mason, his vouch for ranger and kop is invalid and both have a strong potential to be scum.

I don't see a pro-town reason to not immediately out a scum KTS, given the opportunity to do so.

[karnos]

Another possibility, of course, is that KTS is scum who randomly happened to name an actual mason as a mason, by pure chance. But I'm not sure what incentive a mason would have to not out KTS's lie.

[karnos]

Are you suggesting that KTS is actually a mason, but is lying about who the other masons are?

[karnos]

no when I was in my scum perspective before I looked back at my role, Ranger seemed pretty obvtown. I agree moreso with his reads here because now I know I'm actually scum, and that when I was in my scum mindset, he was scumreading me. His reads are correct this game, and I like them. He's town af dude lol.

BTD6 is not town tho

Ozy, it was this post that lead KTS down the road of claiming mason. I agree it would be silly for a scum to claim mason day 1 in a typical day, but after making a huge misspost like this he had to cover it up somehow so he claimed he meant to say mason.

[karnos]

They could have just said they typed scum instead of Town, by mistake, which they did and I think it's what happened here. Nothing too hard to shrug off as a simple mistake.

No, because if he thought he was scum then he would have had to think he also had a scum partner. Can't fake that as a VT, but you could plausibly claim that you were a mason, and you just didn't register the fact you had 2 partners instead of 1 as scum.

I'm surprised you don't think it's a possibility that KTS is scum. Not trying to rolefish, but are you trying to subtly hint that you are actually a mason with KTS?

I'm just trying to understand why, if KTS is mason, he would vouch so strongly for some unknown players. If he is wrong about kop or ranger it could be disastrous for town in endgame when they are trusted above actual masons.

[karnos]

I don't have much to say, the downtime kinda ruined my train of thought. I am also a little surprised that nothing really came out of the whole KTS-Kop-ranger = mason thing, I am still thinking something fishy is going on. Given the absence of any counterclaims, I don't know what to believe anymore. kop still hasn't posted.

There is an interesting web of buddying going on, I may try to decipher things and see if there are any clues from that.

[karnos]

So they are banking on Kop not checking in two weeks? Doubtful.

No, of course not:

we win if you sheep me and ranger so theres no need to waste time discussing about ourselves

KTS was hoping to push a lynch quickly, before kop happened to check back in. Fortunately cooler heads prevailed.

Would be nice to hear from kop still, but I'm glad we weren't foolish enough to blindly trust KTS and lynch immediately as he wanted.

[karnos]

Sorry for my absense, my company is moving from one office to another and as part of the IT team I have been heavily involved in moving servers and workstations.

Anyway, I think BTD makes a lot of good points. I fear I might be seen as "buddying" with him, but I don't really care- his logic is sound and it makes sense to me. I fear that some town players are being manipulated by scum acting as masons, and the end result is a very anti-town strategy.

KTS is either a mason or he isn't. His claims about ranger & kop are either true or they are not. Personally, I find it a bit odd that kop and ranger both refuse to vouch for KTS but also refuse to contradict his claim. I have been thinking about this for awhile: if I was a mason with KTS, outed by him, is there any reason why I would hold out from verifying his claim? Ultimately, the answer is a resounding NO. Any scum in the game ALREADY has them at the top of their kill-list (unless they are scum themselves, of course), so it's not like vouching for KTS will put them in any new danger. By refusing to vouch for KTS, I think we have a tacit admittance that he is lying.

That is why I haven't changed my vote, and I will continue to not change it until things change.

[karnos]

I'm not implying all 3 of them are scum, although it is possible. KTS could have randomly picked an actual mason, or maybe it wasn't so random, perhaps one of his picks was based on the player in question acting as a mason should act. Or he could have picked a VT. The point I am trying to express is that maybe a townie is falling for the scum strategy that keeping masons "secret" on day 1 is critical.

Sure, in a perfect world it's better to keep masons secret until later, but thanks to KTS outing them we are no longer in a situation where that is an option. Scum are going to kill the most likely masons, so confirmation is *not* going to hurt town at all. Now, anti-confirmation might hurt town, of course, because if the masons are not masons then town is better off with scum killing them, but the danger of going down that road is what if KTS is night-killed, then on day 2 kop & ranger will be treated as defacto masons when they could well be scum. The real masons could counterclaim on day 2, but then it's just the 2 of them vs 2 of kop & ranger, and we don't know who to trust. Only now, on day, can a mason actually come forward and be believed with some certainty.

The theoretical situation of KTS being a mason who is lying about kop & ranger is extremely dangerous to town, as he will almost surely be killed at night and "verify" the legitimacy of kop & ranger, who might not even be masons, and then the true masons will be unable to counterclaim at that point.

I just don't see any good coming from ignoring the issue, every scenario I can imagine involves a loss of information and trust because people will be killed at night.

[karnos]

Ugh, sorry about the dup posts. Internet being slower than usual and I hit submit too many times.

Mod: No worries. Fixed. It's been affecting a good number of us.

Because if they do confirm they've fucking outed the mason team. This shit really isn't hard to understand.

I can't see a scenario in which they aren't already on top of the scum kill lists (unless they are scum themselves).

Basically, confirming helps town, because they can then be trusted.

Not confirming hurts town, and doesn't really protect them from scum at all, because who else are scum going to target? (Maybe me if KTS is really scum, but w/e).

[karnos]

Karnos, KTS could still potentially be lying to protect the other masons. As has already been pointed out, knowing who the masons are is a lot more valuable to scum than to town. Yes this could create problems by having Ranger and Kop considered confirmed town when they're not, but we're not going to lose all three in one night. If 2 of 3 die tonight, the living mason can correct us if necessary.

Could you please fucking drop this.

Really?

Okay, here is the scenario: KTS is killed at night, flips town mason. Kop and/or ranger are actually scum.

Now, you seem to think at that point the living mason can "correct us if necessary". This is where I call BS. You are being completely illogical. A late-claiming mason is going to be trusted over masons vouched for by a 100% confirmed mason? Not likely. And if it *is* likely, as you seem to think, then that means any scum at all can come out and claim mason day 2, after killing KTS tonight, and get the real masons lynched as imposters since you would actually trust a late-claim over the original claimed masons.

I don't see the upside here, please help me. I am not terrible town,

you just didn't think things through

.

[karnos]

Regardless of your role, you're the heavy favourite for scum MVP.

In your opinion. I can deal with that.

Look, if I was scum, why would I care? I'f be happy lynching literally anyone except my scum partner. I wouldn't care if KTS was acting scummy as hell, or if KTS has already been caught in a lie about who the masons are, I would be perfectly happy lynching javajoe or BTD or literally anyone. Please explain the scum motivation here to tunnnel on KTS as I have, there isn't one.

I want a real answer, as all town should want.

KTS could be legit, and his claim could be correct. I personally think this is unlikely, but it could be true, and for arguments sake lets pretend it is true.

Today we lynch a VT. Maybe BTD, maybe me, maybe javajoe, doesn't really matter. Tomorrow, we wake to find that mafia killed KTS and werewolves killed some random VT. Ozymandias comes out as one of the "real" masons. WTF do we do? If ozy is scum, and we trust him, we lynch another mason, and town is almost certainly doomed. Now of course if we trust KTS posts 100%, and lynch ozy, town still has a chance here, but then the scum know for sure that kop and ranger are masons, and they both get killed at night. 4 VT and 3 scum remain, and it doesn't look good for town at all.

I just don't see town coming back from a huge misplay like this, so I don't really care if I look a little scummy to some because I am pressing the issue.

[karnos]

Eh, I realized I could share my point in a much more succinct manner than the previous wordy post.

Think about this for just a minute, please: If KTS, kop, or ranger are scum, then what is the drawback of counter claiming? The scum already know who isn't a mason, because they have an inside man!

Basically right now we have this weird schrodinger's mason situation, but the scum likely already know the truth. If you are scum, and none of the 3 are known scum, then you know they probably are the masons, and you will kill them at night, isn't that already a given?

[karnos]

I dislike joe, but I still think it's a massive error to ignore the whole mason claim conspiracy. I'll vote joe if it comes down to it, with the caveat that I think we may be in an awkward situation tomorrow if we suddenly get counterclaims after one or more real masons are killed and unable to verify anything.

[karnos]

I know that wasn't directed to me, but I have a strong feeling that Ozy is aligned with someone. He could be scum or mason, but I doubt he is VT.

[karnos]

VOTE: javajoe24

Because I think he is acting scummy enough to be potential scum, unlike BTD who I think made some good points and is just being targeted because he is new and his posting style is a bit off compared to the usual.

I'd like to state for the record I I'd prefer to pressure KTS and get some real answers, but in the absence of any interest from the rest of town I'll reluctantly vote on joe.

[karnos]

just hammer, i dont think we can milk day 1 any more

Rushing a hammer doesn't sound very towny-masony to me.

Not dropping my vote just yet, but I have a bad feeling about how this is going down.

[karnos]

Seems like nothing of interest has been discussed in the last day. I'm feeling worse and worse about the whole javajoe lynch, but honestly I still think BTD is even less likely to flip scum.

If it wasn't for the elephant in the room, ranger/kop/KTS are all near the top of my "acting scummy" list, but in the absence of any contrary claims I can't see a reason to try to push a lynch on any of them anymore. Maybe flips & a new information will give some more clear answers, for now I am reluctantly holding my vote as-is.

[karnos]

I still must be missing something, I just iso'ed masq and didn't see anything that would make him obv scum... And yes, that gambit fooled me, what was your purpose behind it?

If Ranger was town:

Then he gets NKed before I do, and he flips VT which doesn't effect town.

If he was scum:
Then the other team NKs him and gets rid of scum for us.

Also Kop isnt a mason either FYI

I'm a bit lost as well.

How is it that you knew you wouldn't be nightkilled first? I take it you actually are a mason, otherwise you would be auto-lynched now, so I am assuming someone could vouch for you, but we don't need to see that. I am just trying to understand why neither scum team would try to kill an obvious claimed mason. Reiterating from yesterday, if you were nightkilled and ranger wasn't, we would have a scum in thread acting as a vouched mason and you wouldn't be alive to contradicted it.

As far as reads, I am less inclined to call Joe scum based on BTD's flip, but he could possibly be the other faction. I am guessing kop is likely not scum anymore.

Masquerade, I don't really have a strong read either way, and I feel like this wagon has come out of nowhere. I'll have to re-read the last few pages and try to follow along with the thought process here. Ultimately based on feelings I am okay with the lynch, I don't have a strong town read on him, but I don't have much of a scum read either.

[karnos]

Is it really rolefishing to discuss a claimed role and the validity of it? Anyway, whatever, if you trust him I guess that is good enough for me.

And yes, I see the case against Masq. Seems solid. I'll hold on voting because I don't see any point in rushing it.

[karnos]

Who do you think is Ranger's buddy, Karnos?

If I were to ignore the mason claims, and/or assume they are a complete lie?

kop was very low activity early game, and still doesn't seem to post much, makes me think he was partnered with *someone*, and obviously isn't a real mason

KTS I already post this earlier in the thread, I thought then that scumKTS may have picked ranger as a "mason" because ranger was his scum partner. the absurdity of it is exactly why it works, nobody suspects KTS of being anything but town because what scum would do that? obviously this theory is useless if KTS is a real mason - I don't need to pursue it, because the real masons know the truth.

creature on review, it seems creature and ranger mostly rated each other as solid town, and creature repeatedly defended ranger when ranger was accused of scummy behavior. other than ranger interactions, I don't have much of a read on creature, he is a bit of a wildcard so it's possible he is the other mafia.

javajoe, already mentioned by others as a possibility: sure. maybe. not my first pick though.

Others: I eliminated some from consideration because I don't think scum would bus hard in this setup, of course I could be wrong on that. I am also eliminating obv town or masons from consideration.

[karnos]

I agree.

Karnos, put your vote down, Masquerade has only two votes on him anyway.

Fine.

VOTE: Masquerade

[karnos]

So, do you consider Charloux obvious Town?

No. I didn't see much posting from him at all, and even when he did post it seemed like half of it was complaining about some real life situation he was in.

So, he is also a wildcard, but without the ranger interactions seen from creature I didn't rate him higher as a likely scum. If all of my above scum reads turn out false, I'd consider charloux the next possibility, but I think he is probably just a VT with some real life distractions keeping him from focusing fully on the game.

[karnos]

Lets put the nail in this coffin.

VOTE: Javajoe24

[karnos]

The game came active just as I was about to leave work. I wanted to check and see if I was night-killed, but I didn't want to instantly vote creature until I have heard a bit more... the rush to lynch yesterday didn't end well.

Do you want me to lay out my thoughts, or are we still trying to hide the masons from the scum?

[karnos]

I'll come out with my thoughts and claim.

I am not a mason. VT all the way. I suspect Ozy and Kop are the masons, but I think charloux could also be the 3rd mason instead of kop. I was unsure about creature, but based on what he said above I don't see any chance of him being the other mason.

So from my PoV, charloux kop and creature are my choices for potential scum.

I think claims are the correct play: if we don't win today and if the scum kill a mason, the last mason loses all value if he didn't already claim & confirm today.

[karnos]

When did you suspect I was a Mason?

Shortly after I thought KTS was fake claiming. Of all the posts that said "he is town", something about yours made me think you were speaking from direct knowledge and not just a read on him.

I was a little slow to fully understand and realize that trying to get confirmation from you could be a bad thing.

[karnos]

Oh, hell. I was debating whether or not to vote and I see creature already self voted. Well, nevermind then.

[karnos]

Lynch karnos tomorrow

I do not agree with this strategy.

[karnos]

Rushing through and lynching the obvious scum has been failing, now I am starting to wonder. One of you is obviously a mason, and the other is scum. I'm 99% sure the mason is Ozy, but I suppose I should hold off and see what Charloux has to say before casting a vote.

Of course if kop vouched for Ozy yesterday this would be a perfectly safe lynch on Char, but we rushed through the creature lynch so that never happened.

[karnos]

I hated Karnos's first post today, if it wasn't for that, I would probably lynch you without regrets.

Ah, some discussion.

I always find myself second-guessing myself. As I said I was 99% sure you were a mason, but something rubbed me the wrong way about how we rushed through the previous day without even letting kop make a post. Could there be some crazy world where Ozy is actually the scum and the real mason was reluctant to come forward and cc? Didn't seem likely, but I wanted to see what Charloux posted before voting him. We have plenty of time, it doesn't hurt to use it.

Of course since then Charloux has come out posting and he is still claiming VT, I can confidently place a vote on him, since he himself has removed the one nagging doubt I had. There is no reason why mason charloux would still want to hide at this point.

VOTE: Charloux

To your questions, Ozy:

1. Why are you Town?

I'm always town, it seems. Luck of the draw, I guess? To your question in the other post: I have two completed games on the site, both as town, so no scum examples, sorry. I also have another ongoing game but I can't speak to that. In my first town game, I played against scum.ranger and we lost, badly. I'd hate to see this turn into a loss to scum.ranger's team.

2. Why is Charloux scum?

Process of elimination. Bad answer, I know, but it is what it is- all the scummier players have already been lynched. It kind of makes sense now though, now that I think about my first game. Ranger & snoe was the team, and while ranger was active and aggressive at "scumhunting" and such, snoe was largely passive and stay out of the major discussions or claims. I see charloux play in this game as not too far off from how snoe played, and I'm wondering if it's from ranger's coaching in scum chat in both cases.

3. Why did you spend half D1 rolefishing?

I thought KTS was playing scummy as hell. What player forgets his role? Then he claimed kop wasn't a mason. A minute later, he was claiming kop is a mason. The inconsistencies and backtracking made me think he was surely scum of some kind. I also figured, if the masons are already outed, then surely one would be willing to confirm KTS crazy story, just to get the scumhunting back on track, so when that never happened I just got more suspicious.

In retrospect, I realize it was a gambit to get nightkills on ranger instead of a mason, which is kind of a cool strategy, but I'm not sure I would ever try it. If he picked wrong and ranger was a VT, how would he look when ranger came out and said "i'm no mason, KTS is lying, lynch him!"?

Even now, I'm not sure I would play any different, because if it happened again it might just be scum KTS testing the strategy since it worked so well as an actual mason.

[karnos]

Great game, I really enjoyed it. You played correctly based on what you knew, you just had to work with what you were given by the other players.

[karnos]

He could just fall back on us, and I am pretty sure most of the player list understood it was a gambit, anyway. There is literally no reason for all Masons to come out like this D1.

As a mason, you had the benefit of knowing that. As a VT (or scum), a player would be confused why KTS was claiming masons that obviously aren't masons and assume he is scum. At least I was.

[karnos]

My biggest fear was that someone would realize why I was so suspicious of KTS claim: as ranger's scum partner, I knew immediately that ranger wasn't a mason.

My thinking was if KTS is scum pulling this sort of gambit, if I lead a lynch on him it'll reflect positively on me. And if he is a real mason doing something fishy, well then it's a net gain for scum to get a mason lynched.

[karnos]

Your progression of votes KTS>Ranger>Kop>KTS looked very natural, it's the main reason I thought you were Town from that point on, pretty much.

When I played, I tried to forget I was scum and just play and think the same as I always do. Although, I will admit I intentionally threw suspicion on ranger because I realized up until that point neither of us really interacted with each other at all, and someone might later link us as a scum buddies. So I had to manufacture an excuse to vote ranger, and the initial reaction was really bad for me, but I made it work in the end.

[karnos]

So, why did you kill the guys you did, Karnos? You certainly did not follow Ranger's blueprint.

Well, it was a bit off from the start, since randommidget didn't flip as a mason. You fooled me into thinking kasumeat was an obvious mason, or if not you fully trusted him as town, so I felt he had to die next. Even "knowing" you were a mason, I didn't want to kill you since you kept reading me as "most likely town".

[karnos]

Just a note regarding some rules confusion. I thought we could talk in mafia thread prior to the official game start, and I see the werewolf chat thought the same thing.

From the rules posted at the start of the game:
"Communication outside the thread (if your role specifically allows it) is allowed until the game begins."

I thought that meant we could use the subtopic until the official game start once everyone confirmed. Just a suggestion maybe a more clear wording would prevent that confusion next time, but since there was no penalties it's not really a big deal anyway.

[karnos]

Shameless Plug - I just put myself in to /mod a micro game. With such a short waitlist, it should be up soon. If you enjoy my game and want me to try my hand on such an iconic TV Show (House M.D.), please give that a try! All of you did a great job and I loved having you.

I will most likely signup, I just want to make sure my current games don't eat up all my time first.

House was excellent. I didn't watch it much when it was on live TV, but I binged through the whole thing on netflix with my wife last year.

[karnos]

I might be up to co-mod a game. I would like to mod a game eventually, and starting as a co-mod would be a nice way to learn without all the stress of being the sole mod. And Princess Bride is a cool theme.

Hello <player name>, you are Inigo Montoya

Ability: the 6-fingered man, who killed your father, should prepare to die

[karnos]

Thanks ranger. Have to say it was more fun for me than the last game we played!

[karnos]

Hey guys, this is my 3rd game, first one that isn't a newbie game. Nice to see some familiar faces: killthestory, ranger, BTD6.

Last time I started things of with a vote for #1 on the user list, but I don't want to push killthestory too much given he already has 2 friends, so I'll go with the next one in line.

VOTE: Creature

A werewolf is a creature, is creature a werewolf?

Looking back at my first post, I am wondering if this looked suspicious to the masons in any way. I meant that KTS already had to votes on him, but now that I know he was a mason my post seems oddly prophetic.