Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[Masquerade]

VOTE: charloux

[Masquerade]

Ranger, I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing in Kts, can you explain please?

Random, what do you think of the wagon on you? Would you have said the same thing about Ranger's reads if you were at the bottom of the list?

[Masquerade]

Ah OK that makes sense. I can see why the reads on KTS and Karnos.

I'll happily change my vote to KTS if that helps. I just don't want to be the jerk that pushes a lynch onto a nice townie on day 1, and I am not yet confident that KTS is scum.

Do you believe anyone on the Kts-wagon legit scumreads him?

holy shit you jumped on that wagon S O H A R D

Yeah I'm not too comfortable with how he did that either.

@Karnos, I'm thinking accident. I thought BT put Random at L-1 at first and then thought Kts hammered lol. Forgot about the self-vote as well, there was not much wrong with it (besides voting yourself obv) for the gamestate at the time.

Random, why did you vote Kts in the first place?

I don't have any thoughts about Random's wagon that are worth sharing. I feel like it's a regular RVS-wagon where the votes don't tell me much now but maybe will later.


BTD6 it would be helpful if you got an avatar.

[Masquerade]

@Random: Does pretentious and annoying mean Kts is scum then? Because in my experience he's like that as town and I haven't seen him as scum yet. For me Kts is still a nulltownread, I like how he's pushing to get us out of RVS but I've seen scum do that too.

@Ranger: Mind explaining how Random came to be a top townread for you? Because I don't see it. I don't think Random is scum rn and his wagon is not one I want to pursue because I know Random a little bit and a long time ago he was misslynched because he had responded scummy to his RVS-wagon. I think you may have Random as toptown because of the wagon, and in singleball I'd agree. But this is 12 players with 4 scum so that makes the odds of a RVS-wagon on scum quite a bit higher. I mean, in a game with 13p and 3 scum on 1 team it will be a lot harder to get such a wagon going on scum.

KTS is one of the players I have seen before. If he wasn't, I would absolutely be scum reading him, but I know from the prior game that his town play just likes a bit scummy. That doesn't actually rule out him being scum, though, and right now I have no other real leads. I would probably be voting him if he wasn't already shouldering several votes.

Kts has 2 votes, I'd understand being careful for a derphammer but the wagon isn't even close to hammer. Seems like you're being overly careful. What exactly is the 'lead' you have on Kts? What do you think is scummy about his play so far that warrants a maybe-vote?

[Masquerade]

No. The OMGUS and general conduct made him scummy. The RVS vote was because he was annoying and pretentious.

Oh shoot I just realized a miscommunication.
With at first I meant why you voted him that time because later you said (and I'm paraphrazing here) that something reaffirmed your vote on Kts. I didn't mean your first vote on him this game but I can see how my question was probably confusing.
But you answered the question I was trying to ask in this post. But I didn't see any OMGUS. What I saw was someone that saw a wagon was growing on someone else and Kts was just making it go faster. Also the way Kts is acting is kinda what I'm used from him, and I've only seen him as town so far iirc.
Random, have you played many games with Kts? If you guys are not that familiar it makes more sense for me that you'd scumread him so soon.


You know what. I didn't even think it through earlier but what Kasumeat just brought up is a good point. Ranger, obviously you didn't read Kuroi because otherwise you'd have seen he was making mod-posts. How does he end up in your readslist? Because I'm having a really hard time coming up with explanations to that myself, besides you using the drop-down menu and just place the names you see there anywhere without thinking.

[Masquerade]

Then why would she point it out herself?

[Masquerade]

Kop didn't say you weren't reading.

[Masquerade]

I kinda think that is part of the reason though.

[Masquerade]

@Kasumeat: 1, I can sort of see what Kop means but I have no read on Kop yet and nothing close to a strong read on you so I'm just going to see where this is going.
2. I know Kop and he isn't a man of many words. His inactivity isn't alignment indicative.
3. What charloux said.

Speaking of which..

UNVOTE: About time I removed my RVSvote.

@Creature, I'm not sure how to read Ranger, I just realized that many games I had with her were games where one of us replaced in so there's not a lot of early-game experience I have with her. Rn I'm inclined to think she made up (part of) her reads because if she had actually paid attention she'd know Kuroi is not a player but the mod. For me it's a lot different then missing someone that died. There's also something else that I don't want to add before Ranger responds because that will influence how I'll read her.

@Kasumeat: Not scum motivation does not equal town motivation. You just completely destroyed your own point on Ranger.

VOTE: Kasumeat

[Masquerade]

PEdit didn't even show all the new posts :/

[Masquerade]

Yeah my fingers were a lot faster than my head just now and it's not making a lot of sense to me anymore either. Gonna take a small break. I have this nagging feeling of being on to something but it's just out of reach..

UNVOTE:

[Masquerade]

Wow a lot of votes piled up there suddenly.

Kasumeat, what is your definition of buddying? Because I don't really get why you think scumbuddies would buddy each other.

@BTD6: I checked that game, newbie 1700 right? Wow, I feel sad you had to go through that. Such a bad effort and something that barely happens. I've also seen town get frustrated enough to selfvote and I've thought about doing it once or twice as well but it's bad form to do as town. As scum as well btw, either way it's screwing over your team.

@Random: I wasn't defending Kop, I think I saw what he saw in some of Kasumeat's earlier posts (24 33 and 68 come to mind). That has nothing to do with my read on Kop. I was hoping Kop would stay around and chat with us some more but he didn't.

So Kop, am I close to guessing what it is that you saw or is it something else?

[Masquerade]

Hiya, gonna have a busy weekend so [/b]I'll be v/la until Sunday night or Monday morning[/b]
Will try to post something decent later today.

[Masquerade]

Oh messed up a tag.. Edit for mod-visibility:

Hiya, gonna have a busy weekend so

I'll be v/la until Sunday night or Monday morning

Will try to post something decent later today.

[Masquerade]

So... Kasumeat.. Anything you wanna talk to me about?

[Masquerade]

I'm thinking, but in the meantime, sure. Why did you speak for Kop and defend his vote against me?

I didn't defend his vote. I agreed with his point against you. I don''t get why it is so hard for people to differentiate between the 2. I also explained what I thought i saw and asked Kop whether I was close to what he saw. Other than that it means nothing, because even though he has a point on you that i agree with, the 2 of you can potentially be opposing scum.
This is multiball, it;s a little different.

[Masquerade]

Also, Ranger has played with Kop before, I have played with Kop before, maybe you should start listening and just accept that the inactivity is not alignment indicative for Kop.

[Masquerade]

You're not going to win a fight about what

I

meant.

[Masquerade]

O new page..... That^was @Kasumeat.


Reading up now

[Masquerade]

oh ffs I hate pagetops.

[Masquerade]

I will read this later because I need queitness and that's not happening here since i'm at work at a pop stage.

[Masquerade]

PAGE TAWP!

Preview-Edit FUCCCCCCCCCk

I'M SO SORRY!

[Masquerade]

Too much happened for me to respond to rn but will try to get in tonight.

[Masquerade]

Intentionally or not, you're playing exactly how a fakeclaiming scum would play in your spot

I am also new, this is my 3rd game, 2nd on this site.

So how do you know how a fakeclaiming scum plays?

Wow..... This game.... Wtf, why did the masons claim day 1??? Really guys, I think it has to be legit because by now a real mason would have countered. But I also agree that we shouldn't rush things because we have so much time left. Give everyone a chance to respond. Also, if this is a fake claim, please only one mason counter. I doubt it is a fake claim but just in case. I don't like karnos' latest post against kts. I understand you think it may be fake, but if it is we will know soon, no need to push the issue so hard right now. If it is true, bad luck for getting kop as a mason considering how inactive he is. For now I need to...

UNVOTE:

Hate this post.

VOTE: javajoe

I also wasn't much impressed by Karnos and charloux, but Karnos seems to really believe in his scumread on Kts which is something I'd sooner attribute to town than scum. Even if this is multiball.

[Masquerade]

Why do you hate this post?

It feels awkward. Like it was made by scum.

[Masquerade]

I am only lynching kts if he gets cced and I do not want any mason coming out Day 1 ergo I'm not voting kts today unless there is an idiot mason.

[Masquerade]

And that makes the mason pool smaller. Nobody cc TODAY.

[Masquerade]

Then what's the point of your question?

[Masquerade]

Ranger, are the Masons you, KTS, and Kop? (If you choose not to answer say why)

Here's my answer for you.
VOTE: BTD6.
Kasumeat and Ozymandias are still scum, though.

Explain why because I don't agree with either. Kasumeat I can maybe see but Ozy I've been liking lately.

@BTD6: We're not agreeing to never ever lynch Kts. We're agreeing to not lynch Kts

today

. You're being voted because you keep fishing for a counterclaim or confirmation. What's your mafia-experience before you joined MS?

but yeah im the greatest to ever play this game, so please stop denying it

You really aren't. Because if you were you wouldn't have had to claim already AND out your hypothetical mason-buddies.
But you do have a point regarding BTD6.

[Masquerade]

Btd is so scummy....

I'm not convinced BTD6 is stupid enough as scum to not stop digging though.

I agree BTD6 is looking scummy with his posts about the masons, but it doesn't convince me that he's scum. He was already scumreading Kts before Kts claimed so to me it makes sense he's sceptical. Ofc that doesn't necessarily make him town. I didn't like the way Joe jumped that wagon, made me think he's only voting there to save his own behind. BTD6 could go either way for me, Joe is getting a stronger scumread with each post he makes.

@BTD6: There are always going to be odds of hitting the masons with our votes but rn the odds are bigger that we don't. Besides Kts, who are you scumreading and why?

Also, how do you forget your role? If your town and not a mason then you are a VT. The only explanation of this is if you forgot if you were Werewolf or mafia. But you did something like this last time and were town so idk....

That last part, what's that about? I went through your games but couldn't find anything.

PEdit
Nah just gonna post this, have some toughts on Karnos' posts but not sure if I should put them all out there yet. Gonna mull it over some more.

[Masquerade]

I can't comment on that game because it is ongoing. I am actually agreeing with karnos here. If ranger and Kop are Mason's they have nothing to lose by confirming it because they have already been outed by kts. The scum already are going to kill you overnight for being assumed Mason's so might as well confirm to help the town by narrowing the playing field of possible scum by 3 today.

So how come I can't find any ongoing game of yours where Kts is in it too? You also should try to prevent bringing up games that are still ongoing.
I think Karnos is way too panicky about the masons being possibly outed. It's possible Kts lied about his buddies, it's also possible both scumteams pick the same target to NK. There's definitely one more night for the masons to chat among each other and there's definitely a max of 2 kills. So 1 mason will definitely be alive tomorrow who will have the thoughts of the other 2 masons. That's still rather valuable. It's definitely not ideal, but the way Kts has been acting makes me pretty sure he isn't lying about his claim of being mason and I don't need anyone else to confirm him.

@Kts: It doesn't make sense to call a wagon trash because a scumread is on it. This is multiball, scum will try to lynch scum as much as town does. I get why you think BTD6 is scummy, but I don't share that opinion. I feel BTD6 is trying to make his thoughts clear and is being misunderstood and it's just starting to feel like a downward spiral in which he's trying to explain himself over and over again but not getting his point accross. I know how that feels and maybe I just feel sorry for him and that's why I don't want to lynch him, but Joe just feels like he's trying to say the correct things without sharing too many of his own thoughts and getting the masons outed in the process so would much rather lynch him today.

I beg to differ. If Joe is scum then BTD is the godfather!
That said i don't think Joe is scum, but BTD is a good choice. I'd vote for him but i promised that idiot Random i wouldn't...

You have Random as a scumlean in a prior readslist, so how come you listen to your scumread? Why aren't you voting anyone at all? What are your thoughts on Joe and BTD6 other than what you said in this post? Have any of your reads changed since you made 356?

[Masquerade]

I'm not in any games with kts, I was talking about kasumeat

Oh right, context... Missed 335 when I iso'd you, just assumed it was about Kts. Sorry about that.

@Charloux: I see you have me as a nullread, we also differ in opinion on Joe and BTD6, yet you don't try to talk to me about my reads. I'm getting the feeling you have no interest in improving your reads because they are fake. What has Random done to make your read change from scum to null? How come you're not voting anyone?

[Masquerade]

Are you seriously going to keep that promise? Why would you even do that?

Is your sister ok though?

[Masquerade]

Charloux, why are you answering non-game related questions and ignoring game related questions?

[Masquerade]

Charloux why are you ignoring my questions?

I have so many thoughts about today that are best shared after we had flips. I don't want to hurry things along or anything, but I think the game is starting to stall on the Joe vs BTD6 discussion and if this goes on we're going to have to make a last minute decision and we all know how much scum like to hide in those 'wanted to prevent no-lynch' moments.

BTD6, I get why your readslist looks the way it does from your pov. Can you elaborate on your reads on Ozy and Kasumeat?
Joe, can you share reads/thoughts at all please?

[Masquerade]

I've not much to add. I still like a Joe-lynch a lot better than a BTD6-lynch. At least BTD6 iis giving thoughts on the game, even if it looks scummy. Joe is not giving thoughts at all, is just coasting and only saying the bare minimum to skate through. Charloux is a good candidate for scum as well, don't like his AtE. If you're really so caught up in your own issues then maybe you should replace out? Yes, I'm being a b-tch rn but I'm depressed 99% of the time and I can still play so grow up.

[Masquerade]

Btw, I'm going to reinstall my pc, with formatting and everything, and I'm not sure how long it will take.

[Masquerade]

I think it was at me.. Ozy is a nullread, he hasn't done anything particularly towny or scummy. I liked his reactions when Kts claimed, but I realize it can be easily faked as scum (I know I can and it gets me townread as scum) and nothing else that stands out to me so null for now.

[Masquerade]

My enemies can betray me but won't give me a negative feeling because I don;t hold *love* for them. If a loved one betrays me it's so much more worse.

Lets get back to the game now, shall we?

Javajoe, people have mentioned several times you haven't shared reads. When do you plan to share reads?

[Masquerade]

Charloux: sadly another game has just pissed me off to no end and I'm taking a cooldown period for 24 hours. Iso me.

[Masquerade]

@Charloux

@Charloux: I see you have me as a nullread, we also differ in opinion on Joe and BTD6, yet you don't try to talk to me about my reads. I'm getting the feeling you have no interest in improving your reads because they are fake. What has Random done to make your read change from scum to null? How come you're not voting anyone?

Are you seriously going to keep that promise? Why would you even do that?

@Joe: Gl man.

[Masquerade]

Oh there was this too

You have Random as a scumlean in a prior readslist, so how come you listen to your scumread? Why aren't you voting anyone at all? What are your thoughts on Joe and BTD6 other than what you said in this post? Have any of your reads changed since you made 356?

[Masquerade]

^@charloux

[Masquerade]

I choose to believe the mason claims and I know I am not scum, therefore the scum pool consists of {charl, btd, creature, karnos, kasumeat, masquerade, ozy, and random}. Out of these 8, 4 are scum. My Reads in order of scumminest is btd>ozy>masquerade >creature>random>kasumeat >charl>karnos

So basically you're scumreading everyone that voted you, is not voting (charloux), or voted Kts (Kasumeat)? Or is there more to your scumreads?

[Masquerade]

I've nothing to say that can't be sorted tomorrow. Hammer away.

[Masquerade]

Sigh.
Can't argue with a promise no matter how freaking much it annoys me.

[Masquerade]

Was that hammer?

[Masquerade]

Yeah it was.
I was idd BTD's buddy. I had no idea how to defend. You guys suck for not letting me at least post today.

[Masquerade]

I just woke up an hour ago and was still thinking.

[Masquerade]

Yeah I realized that, that's why I didn't know what to say.

[Masquerade]

What made it so obvious though? I wasn't the only one not wanting to lynch BTD.

[Masquerade]

Lol I'm not going to help you guys out. You lost that opportunity by lynching me before I posted at all.

[Masquerade]

I did have fun though Just unlucky with BTD yesterday. Should have bussed but at some point I couldn't anymore and had to keep pushing Joe.

[Masquerade]

Nah I'ma look for a shaman and get full moon invoked and eat you all!

[Masquerade]

Yeah ok I think I'm gonna go now before this becomes and end-game convo We'll talk once this is over.

GL to all!

[Masquerade]

Kuroi, again thanks for modding! I had fun this game, even if it was a short one for us.

[Masquerade]

Btw, I decided I was killing Ranger when I saw I was scum and didn't see her name in my role pm.

[Masquerade]

Kuroi, I pre-inned for your game can I do that?