Open 641 Carbon 14

[Raskolnikov]

{Raskolnikov}
{Riddleton}
{Desmond_13, Creature}
{Transcend, Not_Mafia}






{Ranger}

[Raskolnikov]

Has the game started yet?

[Raskolnikov]

Oh that's right it was my fault it didn't start...

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Ranger

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Riddleton

L-1

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Creature

[Raskolnikov]

Unless you're doublevoter that's not true?

[Raskolnikov]

Did you misread my ranger vote as a riddletone vote?

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

{creature}
everyone else
{riddleton}

[Raskolnikov]

I think you're too nice towards creature putting you to l-1 there.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm indifferent. I understand his motive for doing it (pressure) but am concerned about someone voting me without realising I am at L-1.

What made you switch your stance on creature from being scummy from your post 37, to being considered town now?

Very mild but him thinking he accidently hammered came off slightly town.

[Raskolnikov]

I am thinking scum is between Ranger, Not_Mafia and Desmond_13

I thought this was stupid at first glance, but if he's townreading me + riddle from here and transcend from earlier this is actually a potentially real perspective.

[Raskolnikov]

I actually feel really sorry for scum if they lose from this rvs through no fault of their own

[Raskolnikov]

The game just started.

Even if there's validity there I think you're exaggerating this scumread incredibly hard.

[Raskolnikov]

You sound rather confident on that judgement but you're voting not_mafia?

[Raskolnikov]

At first glance rangers overanalyzing rvs to no end, but I don't have the time right now to go through and see if her points have any validity.
Tomorrow!

[Raskolnikov]

{Desmond}

Are you doing this on purpose for meta after 638 and 639?

Counterintuitively I think you're a bit quick to townread me but for some reason don't mind the others doing it.

[Raskolnikov]

This analysis is sound in that creature is all-business there but a bit different here.
I wish you would have waited longer to mention it though because I don't feel like we have enough posts here beyond rvs.

[Raskolnikov]

Creature do you remember that game you spectated that plot was modding?

[Raskolnikov]

Ranger can you go into your not_mafia read and why its somehow greater than creature here?

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Raskolnikov]

Nooooooo
The game is devolving!

[Raskolnikov]

S_S doesn't look bad.
I have reason to believe our townbloc is wrong and propose a motion for its dissolution.

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah I don't think the creature read is inherently scummy but I have no idea how she goes through all that and ends up prioritising the not_mafia read.

[Raskolnikov]

I think that's L-1 though.

[Raskolnikov]

My hammer discipline is so good now.

[Raskolnikov]

away till sunday night or monday
keeping not_mafia vote

[Raskolnikov]

prodge
analysing tomorrow
all the gut and feeling and intuition stuff here make this game one of the weirdest ive seen

[Raskolnikov]

Even assuming not_mafia scum there still has to be another scum and I kind of want to trust ranger (though it would mean her creature meta is actually right) but idk. Bright side is even if ranger's scum the n-m is probably bussing anyways so it feels half safe even when I don't know what ranger is or if one of the townreads is wrong.

I'm not confident enough in my reads to do this townblock stuff, though I do hard townread transcend and think riddles probably town. The investigation target selection is okay theory but my concern is that the discussion there could help scum find the PRs through their opinion/lack there, the alternative being we don't discuss it and trust one persons judgenment which also has its flaws. The townbloc lynchpool hypotheticals from creature I don't want any part of. As far as I can tell creating that plan and making us stick with makes the game predictable for scum to choose nks and especially screws us if there's a scum in the Tbloc; I think scum not knowing who will 180 on them after flips is very useful to us and I'm not familiar enough with this system to trust it.
I don't know if these things are actually effective if used well though, the conclusion there is actually that creature would be good for trying to setup these things if they were in fact intrinsically good for town and I'm not really sure on either ranger or creature either way (even a chance of both T if n_m is scum along with a misread townread).

I kind of want this game to start turning standard with not_mafia showing up and saying things and conventional wagons and reasoning because I'm out of my comfort zone trying to analyse this game as it is now. Even the n_m thing is pretty much poe given he didn't really do anything.

[Raskolnikov]

N_M is still gut town but like he hasn't towntold at all I just feel he wouldn't play this shitty as scum lol but that's an assumption about a dude I don't even know.

How

[Raskolnikov]

N_m can you get involved this game or replace out? I generally don't lurker lynch but this is getting obnoxious and is imo the thing stalling this game.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Raskolnikov]

It's for emphasis after the S_S post and also because I'm bored.

[Raskolnikov]

I thought you spectated my newbie game?

[Raskolnikov]

I'm wondering what to do about the cop claim.
Assuming if he's town he'll get nightkilled anyways I'm wondering if we should get a specific-type claim so that someone could counterclaim.
I think worst case scenario there if no one CC's is that he either dies anyways or scum leave him alive for WIFOM and he posts results every day.

If I'm wrong though I want to hear it, I've never been in this kind of setup before.

[Raskolnikov]

What don't you like about something_smart?

[Raskolnikov]

I'm still wary scum kill a cop tonight (>40% ?) and then not_mafia if scum claims the other type of cop and gets that CC out.
And I think if he's town he dies both ways because of no protective so I don't even really see a downside, and if not we get confirmed type-cop outing results.

[Raskolnikov]

I feel like there should have a scum between Riddle and S_S, why wouldn't scum want to attack someone who's extremely lynchable and passive to their accusers?

Yeah idk. They've both been similar for me this game and realistically I know if it isn't ranger/not_maf then one of my townreads is wrong so.

[Raskolnikov]

Oh I thought for some reason that not_mafia vague claimed cop not specifically cop.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Ranger

The meta thing was okay in that there were some differences but bringing it out that early and relying on it that heavily reads careless for ranger, and overall I think creature's town here.

I assume ranger went for bussing not_mafia if hes scum though I don't rule out ranger/riddleton either.

[Raskolnikov]

Riddle hasn't done anything wrong but I like S_S way more.

[Raskolnikov]

Why can't we have scum think Not_Mafia is fakeclaiming as town?

Do people do this in known setups?
I've only seen it in >13p games with unknown roles.

[Raskolnikov]

For starters you're pushing a cop check to ranger and seem more undecided there.
Riddle's been trying to get her townread imo.

[Raskolnikov]

Transcend I think you got S_S mixed up with riddle there in terms of defending ranger.

[Raskolnikov]

You guys just lynched one of my best townreads...

[Raskolnikov]

I was just coming on to declare my v/la and I see this hammer..

[Raskolnikov]

V/LA till sunday.
Obviously lynch N_M if S_S flips town tho and I'd be good with cop/seer checking ranger.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Raskolnikov]

Also I'm not a great player but I don't think you guys played around S_S very well there.

[Raskolnikov]

LOL the gambit plays.

[Raskolnikov]

Actually, WTF.
Why did riddleton as cop leave n_m alive and voted S_S

[Raskolnikov]

Ranger and Raskolnikov are town.

Transcend is kind of different here but I'm not really sure between him/ranger at this point.

I'm not sure if it's worth giving this day too much time since scum seem good at PR hunting, given a few of us were scumreading riddleton so I assume thats the kill rationale.
N_M claiming cop also makes me think it's more likely mafia than werewolves though, so seer ability is potentially useless anyways.

Let's see ranger and transcend comment I guess.

[Raskolnikov]

Ehhhh.
Technically your 180 doesn't matter until tomorrow though and thats assuming you aren't the nk? And by then we'll potentially have new information to decide with?

[Raskolnikov]

I mean I think scum are forced to kill between us while we TR each other like this.

[Raskolnikov]

Okay, now it's time to wait for counterclaims.

??????
I think seer should not counterclaim this.

[Raskolnikov]

Okay so obviously he's scum from my perspective just from faking a guilty on me, but even you should see he claimed cop yesterday, now seer and that hammer was terrible and out of preservation.

I don't even know how you can realistically townread me and want N_M CC'd after not wanting the CC yesterday.

[Raskolnikov]

Actually just hearing the result has utility if N_M flips WW (not mafia) because we'd be going into 3p lylo with at least a conftown (scum will kill seer but can't kill the clear then).

But I think the cop claim yesterday (wanting to get the cop cc therefore) makes me think it's mafia not WW. In that case you would think losing seer isn't a big deal but it denies the claim in 3p lylo whereas it would narrow scum down to a pool of 2 again, either the 2 not claiming or the 2 claiming, so we lose utility there; we'd still have conftown even if seer is otherwise useless here.

I guess I see there's value both ways.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm not softing seer.

[Raskolnikov]

Wait what

[Raskolnikov]

Okay it's transcend/n_m

[Raskolnikov]

I expect ranger to come in at some point and claim seer now.

[Raskolnikov]

Transcend if you're town we're talking about this after the game.

[Raskolnikov]

1. I scumread that hammer and if I was vig I'd have shot N_M overnight; I wanted him lynched originally anyways.
2. ?
3. I wanted to bait nk, but you kind of made this impossible now.

[Raskolnikov]

I was wondering if you were seer and trying to get me to claim seer to protect your life, but that thing is indistinguishable from mafia trying to get seer out or setup ML by faking the same thing.
The way you're approaching it now I kind of doubt it anyways. Now I'm just confused...

[Raskolnikov]

You guys don't realize that N_M is scum anyways because he claimed a guilty on me?

[Raskolnikov]

Since we're clearly talking PR anyways (THANKS TRANSCEND)

Creature wanting cc made me think he is not seer, and you playing this makes me think you aren't seer, and I know I'm not so ranger is actually sort of confirmed seer-town unless I'm wrong on creature.

[Raskolnikov]

Too much has been said at this point and now I actually think seer between ranger/creature should claim and give result like creature said.

[Raskolnikov]

This game is so spaghetti

[Raskolnikov]

No I want seer to claim and out results before the day ends.

[Raskolnikov]

Idk why creature waited for CC's though and was weirdish on n-m when seer-creature immediately knows n_m is scum and would cc if they wanted to.

I was super strong TR creature but idk between him and ranger now depending on claim because if creature does NOT claim seer then ranger does and shes conftown.

[Raskolnikov]

and even transcend for voting him up before ranger arrived... aaaahh idk.

[Raskolnikov]

we talked way too much about PRs so that not claiming after all of that is actually a detriment I think esp since me trans hardclaimed not seer

[Raskolnikov]

transcend hardclaiming VT means that seer IS between creature/ranger.
Either one of them claims and is conftown or both of them claims and then transcend is conftown. But at this point ranger seer is kind of possible since creature really felt not seerish which is weird since he felt so town.
that is all.

[Raskolnikov]

Not wolf on Transcend

(this is so dumb)

[Raskolnikov]

This aborted mass claim is probably the worst thing I have ever been a part of.

[Raskolnikov]

Hey transcend why the fk would you try to out someone if you thought they were softing seer?

[Raskolnikov]

............................

[Raskolnikov]

Carbon-14 is an Open setup which is mainly characterized by the single scum-group that can only be successfully investigated by one of the two investigative roles.
The original idea was created by Adel.
Setup

2 Mafia Goons or 2 Werewolves
3 Townies
1 Cop
1 Seer

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Carbon-14

[Raskolnikov]

By not claiming seer you're literally scumclaiming barring mod error?

[Raskolnikov]

But transcend REALLY acted not like seer also "yesterday"

[Raskolnikov]

@mod is there a mod error

nope
~shotty

[Raskolnikov]

if transcend doesnt claim seer either im getting trolled

[Raskolnikov]

nope
~shotty

WELL LETS SEE HERE

Creature - VT
Not_Mafia - Mafia Goon
Raskolnikov - VT
Something_Smart - VT
Riddleton - Cop
Transcend - ??
Ranger - VT?

Roles left: seer

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Ranger

[Raskolnikov]

Transcend strongly suggesting to me to claim seer DID feel like he was seer trying to get me to cover but it was also indistinguishable from mafia trying to frame me in some way or actual town unsure so I didn't want to risk accepting it.

[Raskolnikov]

Actually I think it's pretty obvious you didn't know what the fk was going on which was why you came into this throwing shade on transcend who should be conftown through my VT hardclaim.
What you're saying here is that if you were scum you'd have paid a lot more attention and knew what was going on but that's not really an alignment tell especially given the short night and you probably not having processed the events of the day fully.

[Raskolnikov]

In general the argument "If I was scum I would be better than this" is always fallacious because if it was true people would never catch scum and they'd be some perfect gods who never screwed up.

[Raskolnikov]

ok thats good. I didnt really realize until after I denied the softclaim though I felt really uncomfortable trusting you even so

[Raskolnikov]

no im town, im just not celebrating yet just in case im getting trolled

[Raskolnikov]

I'd have bought the creature thing more if she waited later in the game instead of pushing it THAT early. Creature being so into the PRs and claim and analysis and townbloc thing was kind of weirding me out since I didn't fully understand it.
I feel like the N_M scum thing was only reached early by some because of people POEing through their townreads so ranger reaching it without the exact same townread POE as we had and being so convinced based on meta again there early felt kind of strange.
Yeah this was basically a scumclaim d2 from the vt thing but I don't blame ranger since I think N_M kind of gave up before even arriving and I'd lose all motivation as partner there too.

[Raskolnikov]

I think creature was great here.

This whole game felt so weird and fast and based on people's gut reads and then the PR stuff happened and everyone refused to claim seer which was making me WTF so hard d2 and then night lasted 5 minutes I feel so dizzy from this.

[Raskolnikov]

scum QT
N_M: fuck
N_M: fuck
N_M: fuck
Ranger: ...

[Raskolnikov]

I feel like the N_M scum thing was only reached early by some because of people POEing through their townreads so ranger reaching it without the exact same townread POE as we had

Oi!
Not so.
I was legitimately the first person to have the POE, before anyone else.

but... but... how can you townread poe people if you're scum

[Raskolnikov]

You were definitely confusing the hell out of me this game, not just with the seer thing but also the early N_M gutread, the ranger 180 and then doing the S_S lynch instead of ranger or n_m.
But I knew you "OFFICIALLY" didn't claim and you didnt feel malicious as much as really bizarre. If ranger claimed seer I wouldn't have quickhammered you but have dragged the lylo out for days and have grinded it which ranger might've won if she put a ton of effort into it but I don't know for certain.

[Raskolnikov]

To me, my iso did not seem like it was believably a PR. I thought if I tried, I'd die for sure.
My iso seemed to fit more of a VT play, so that was the call I made.

Haha, you assume because you can PR read people well others can too.
I'm basically PR blind and wouldn't have came to the conclusion "I think this ISO is more VT-ish" in a thousand years.
Idk how you do it, here with riddle and then earlier in blitz 21. Personally half the time I'm PR I forget and just think play VT until halfway into the day when people start mentioning roles or someone roleclaims and it jogs my memory, rarely its not till night arrives and I'm like oh yeah I have to use this PR action quick better decide onto who.
I legit doublechecked my role PM here to make sure I wasnt in fact the seer when creature wasn't claiming seer despite strongly implying seer should claim and transcend wasn't explicitly claiming seer when I asked him to either...